SLANTED FEDORA CONVENTION
ERIC KATZ
regarding this convention, then return here. All of the guests seem to be
very nice. The DEEP SPACE 9 guests were: Rene Auberjonois [Odo] and Armin
Shimerman [Quark]. The VOYAGER actors were: Roxann Dawson [B'Elanna Torres],
Robert Picardo [The holographic Doctor], Robert Duncan McNeill [Tom Paris],
and Ethan Phillips [Neelix]. All of the actors whom I'd just listed had
previously appeared at some Creation Entertainment conventions in Valley
Forge! Roxann had also been to a Galactic Entertainment convention in the
same hotel. Mary Kay Adams [Na'Toth, the Narn, from Babylon 5 and Grilka,
the Klingon, from DS9], another guest, is actually a blonde! Claudia
Christian [BABYLON 5's Susan Ivanova], the last advertised guest, had sold
both her 2 hour full-cast audiobook, LIVES OF THE CAT [which I'd bought for
$25] and Playboy magazines [$40, which I'd turned down for budget reasons]
with herself as a centerfold! Some of the unadvertised guests included
actors Jack Donner [Sub Commander Tel from STAR TREK's "The Enterprise
Incident"], France Nuyen [STAR TREK's Elaan of Troyius], and James Horan
[several STAR TREK shows, STARSHIP TROOPERS cartoons]. Please remind me who
the other unadvertised female actress was. Both author/filker Roberta Rogow
and Gary S Blog from the Prydonians of Prynceton were fortunate to sit and
sell their stuff in the auditorium near the guests and next to an autograph
table.
I came for the whole weekend [7/29-7/30], excluding Friday because most of
the guests hadn't yet arrived, and the few who came didn't yet sign any
autographs! Besides the cards of some audiobooks, I'd printed out several
pages from the Slanted Fedora Website. This tactic was obviously cheap, but
effective.
Several unexpected things had happened on Saturday afternoon. For example,
there was a bomb scare, which was linked to the Republican Convention.
Everyone evacuated the Adams Mark Hotel for over an hour. Though some guests
had posed for autographs, Rene had felt that this was inappropriate. Rather
than argue with him, I'd respected him because I knew that I'd have another
chance when I'd get his autograph! I went around the corner to T.G.I.
Fridays for Lunch. Unfortunately, since some guests were late, and Robert
Duncan McNeill sang the STAR SPANGLED BANNER at Veterans Stadium on both
Friday and Saturday nights. If anyone still has a recording of his
performance, please email me an mp3/RealAudio file. Obviously, both Dave and
Jackie Scott had no control over these mishaps.
On Saturday night the show was better than the dinner! James Horan did a
great Elvis Presley impersonation! The VOYAGER cast read some short stories.
Unfortunately, none of the guests had signed any autographs on Saturday
night.
On Sunday, Robert Picardo chose to attend mass with his family. All of the
STAR TREK guests were hilarious, though I'd generally rather not watch or
participate in any auctions, even when they're for charities! If I'd want
commercials, I'll spend plenty of time in the dealers room! All of the
VOYAGER actors made fun of the name of McNeill's charity Geocities Website,
RANDOM FLIGHT! Fortunately, aside from the dinner theater, camcorders are
now apparently allowed! Since my friend had misplaced his SUNDAY only
autograph card, I'd begged someone who didn't want any autographs for her
card! Next time, I'll get just 1 autograph per star, just in case something
like this happens again! Though my friend and I got all of our autographs,
some people behind us weren't so lucky because several actors had left
earlier than expected. Though I sympathize with the fans who came on just
Sunday, despite the fact that we had chances to meet most of them before, I
believe that some other fans, made a mistake by shopping in the dealers room
[when much of the merchandise is also available online], rather than get the
autographs!
I'd personally prefer for the actors to answer my questions than sign their
autographs! However, some other fans seem to be somewhat greedy! The fans
who were there on both days shouldn't have taken advantage of Dave and
Jackie! AT the risk of alienating some fellow fans, you should be ashamed of
yourselves! Several events were out of Dave's control, as he'd tried to
explain! If you'll keep demanding partial refunds, he and his wife may go
out of business! Then, you may wonder, "why aren't there any more
conventions?"
harley...@my-deja.com
Please note in advance none of this is a lie, and it is all the truth.
Please keep this in mind if you ever attend one of these conventions.
I just returned from a miserable Star Trek Convention in Philadelphia
Sponsored by Slanted Fedora in Valley Forge.
After a good day Friday Night, we had a Bomb Scare on Saturday. The
hotel in turn was evacuated. However the question always posed to the
promoter, Dave Scott when he asked if anyone had questions, and when he
explained autographs was "Why can't weekend holders get their
autographs today?" His answer was "I don't see why anyone would want to
wait in line today, when you can get both tomorrow, if you stand in
line today, after you receive one set, I
will take away your card and you will not get a second set. There is no
need to worry or jump the gun, I guarantee you, you will get you 2 sets
of autographs, and that card and your admission guarantees you that,
and I have just gave you my word."
Well, Sunday comes, and autographs were schedule for 3:00 to 5:00 PM.
For someone who says he's been around conventions for over a dozen
years, wouldn't someone know 750+ people (15 rows, with 50 people in
each, there went up to row 0) wouldn't be able to get there autographs
in the amount of time set. Plus these 750+ people, had 2 sets of
autographs, and some with 4 sets! Usually it takes a minute with each
star, and with 8 stars signing, there is
no way this could have been possible. The voyager stars departed at
5:00 PM, it wasn't there fault, they were only contracted until then,
and they had filming the next day. Soon after the DS9 stars departed as
well, and didn't speak, I pity the people who were Sunday Only
attendees and didn't hear them speak. Constantly Dave assured everyone
they would get autographs, and as he started the line he reminded
everyone no personalizations or pictures,
and pointed to the last person, saying I want to make sure he gets his
autographs, and he will. He continued to promise this kid the whole
time, and that kid didn't get them.
The day before a fellow from Minneapolis raised his hand and told him
he had previously arranged transportation, and wanted autographs. Dave
said I will make sure this person and this person only get there
autographs, see me afterwards. Well, the next day the man's wife was in
tears because she didn't get them.
When on stage Dave was asked what happened he commented, "I [insert
expletive] up!"
I'd also like to quote what is said on Dave Scott's Website as his
POLICY:
"A Consistent Autograph Policy ... This is the most asked question, as
well as the most asked question, as well as the single largest
possibility for complaints (ours, theirs or anyone's). I have a
procedure, right or wrong, but it is a procedure. I have been around
conventions for more than a dozen years. I have seen people wait in
line for hours. I have seen more people in line for autographs than
were in the seats during the stars talk. I
have seen people stay and enjoy the talks, honor the stars with an
ovation, then wait in the end of the autograph line for hours, then be
told the line had to be cut off before the fan receives his
remembrance. I have a solution for all of these problems. Like
Democracy, it is a terrible policy, unless you compare it to all the
rest. We offer two tiers of pricing ... two tiers of seating. A
general admission seat is located in the back of the
auditorium, and will not receive autographs ... ever. The Reserved
seats are located in the front of the auditorium, first come first
served, order early for best seating. After the stars talks, the fans
will go row by row (again, buy early, less waiting in line for
autographs). All fans with reserved seating will receive A GUARANTEED
AUTOGRAPH from all the headliners. It is impossible to seat reserved
seat ticket holders with general admission
ticket holders. Like I said, it ain't perfect, however, in all of our
conventions we have put on, all reserved ticket holders got the
autographs they were intitled to. Everyone got what they paid for, and
no one left feeling taken advantage of. Until I see a system which can
make the same claim, this is what we are doing."
Please bear in mind, fans with reserved seating did not get a
GUARANTEED AUTOGRAPH. Nearly 1/3 of all attendees didn't get
autographs, I know 2/3rds got them, but the 1/3 that didn't go to show
what could happen to the other 2/3rds another time.
Dave offered 3 options to every attendee, $5 per unpunched Voyager or
Ds9 Star for a maximum of $60, OR a set of signed Voyager autographs to
be mailed to you later, OR a full refund for weekend attendees not to
exceed $75.00. He did not return tax or refund the dinner (I didn't
expect him to refund the dinner as well.)
I also was angry for I paid 300.00 on items to get signed, and bought
an extra card for a total of 4 sets of signatures. I got no refund on
those items. As much as the refund for attendance was appreciated and
proper, it still can't make me forget the stuff I bought to get signed.
I couldn't get a refund on that stuff, and it's not like I bought it to
sit around unsigned. I bought it because I wanted it signed, and was
ASSURED and GUARANTEED a
signature. If I would have known I was being lied to, I never would
have bought the items.
For someone in the business this long, a mistake such as this is
uncalled for, and downright not a good business practice. I hope the
Better Business Bureau, and State Attorney Generals hear about this
from someone regarding this.
I really feel sorry for all the people whose hearts were broken and
were in tears because of false promises.
Dave Scott himself mentioned the only other good Fan Oriented CON was
Vulkon. There are also several Fan Run Cons that run conventions where
you get autographs. I'm not telling you not to go to his cons, but
please keep the above options and truth regarding this SF convention in
mind.
Regards,
A Very Depressed Convention Goer
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Laura Haywood-Cory
> Please visit http://www.sfedora.com/newpage21.htm for some more details
> very nice.
You know, Slanted Fedora is the group who's bringing a Trek show to Durham
just three weeks before Trinoc-coN, and yes, they're holding it in the
same hotel we're using. I'm sure they're all nice people, but there are
times when I get a little irritated at the way these pro shows blow into
town with little or no regard for the local sf community they may be
trampling. I'm concerned that with the cons being just three weeks apart,
proto-fans who don't know the diff between a volunteer-run non-profit con
and a professional "show" will get distracted by the name "Spock" and go
for the bright lights and shiny, sparkly things and overlook us entirely.
And yes, I do like Trek (old, TNG and DS9) and Babylon 5, so this isn't
coming from someone who's a literary not media fan (I'm also a gamer, and
I enjoy filk).
Any advice from other folks out there who've run up against these big
shows? We've had our date and location picked for well over a year, so
it's not like we can pack up and move to another date or hotel, nor should
we have to (we were here first, after all). But I'm worried about loss of
attendees, dealers, etc. Suggestions?
-Laura
--
Laura Haywood-Cory
Research Triangle SF Society - http://www.rtsfs.org
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill - monthly sf meetings
Trinoc-coN - http://www.trinoc-con.org
the Triangle's sf conference, 9/29-10/1/2000
John Kensmark
my fedora the way I want, period.
John Kensmark kensmark#hotmail.com
Republicans have been accused of abandoning the poor.
It's the other way around. They never vote for us.
-- Dan Quayle
ERIC KATZ
commercial conventions to the fandom group? I don't remember reading this in
a FAQ! Besides, after I'd posted my original message, I'd forwarded it to
Dave Scott [who owns Slanted Fedora], author/friend Roberta Rogow, and
another friend who was to busy to come! Both Roberta and Gary Blog, the
Prydonian, feel similarly to me regarding some obsessed fans! This thread is
meant to be very educational. We should explain what went right and wrong,
and let Dave defend himself again! Considering what he couldn't control on
Saturday [the bomb scare], I'd dare say that he's quite fair with his
resolution.
Please pardon me for repeating myself. I would've liked for the stars to
have signed autographs Saturday night, too. I truly do feel sorry for some
of the fans who came only on Sunday. However, with the exceptions of both
Mary Kay Adams and Claudia Christian, the other advertised guests had
previously visited Valley Forge several years ago! Please keep this in
perspective! If you came on both Saturday and Sunday, you could have gotten
some autographs on each day, and kept your ticket if it wasn't used up. I
don't work for any of the guests, dealers, or Dave Scott. I'm just a fellow
fan, who's finally starting to put these conventions into perspective. This
was the 1st time that I'd slept overnight at a hotel for a convention.
Overall, it was a positive learning experience for me.
By the way, whoever told any fans how much to spend on merchandise? I'd
bought several STAR TREK audiobooks for their stories, not knowing if they'd
ever get autographed. This was a great opportunity to add sentimental value
to the tapes. Otherwise, I'd printed out some pages with the actors'
photographs! This tactic was obviously very economical and effective! I
encourage some other fans on budgets to do the same thing.
"John Kensmark" <kens...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:39866F78...@my-deja.com...
> Beware of them? I always ignore slanted fedora conventions. I wear
> my fedora the way I want, period.
>
> John Kensmark Kensmark#Hotmail.com
LynnieK
Do not be confrontational.
Ask if you may distribute flyers, etc.
If not responsive... take out some advertising in local papers.
Send out press releases explaining clearly the difference.
Stand outside and distribute YOUR flyers and say come to a REAL convention.
Lynn
Doug Wickstrom
<ek...@cyberdude.com> excited the ether to say:
>What's wrong with posting details about PREVIOUS, rather than future
>commercial conventions to the fandom group?
(consulting mouse in pocket) We're not your sort. Really. We
stay away from commercial conventions and autograph selling. It
doesn't interest us as a group. Those who are interested
individually will read about it in the _appropriate_ newsgroups.
If you had any actual experience with rec.arts.sf.fandom, you
would know this. If you had any actual participation in
rec.arts.sf.fandom, this would be blindingly obvious. You
responded to someone in the rec.arts.sf.fandom newsgroup, who is
relatively new, and hasn't learned yet not to respond to
crossposts without setting followups.
Here's something to chew on: anything crossposted to three or
more newsgroups is probably off-topic to all but one of them.
Followups set to rec.arts.startrek.fandom.
--
Doug Wickstrom
"I must say that I find television very educational. Every time someone
switches it on I go into another room and read a good book." --Groucho Marx
ERIC
Roberta Rogow and Deja News? I hope that Vicki Rosenzweig, who'd
created a great FAQ about this newsgroup, will step in to straighten
things out [and possibly update her FAQ in the process]! Unfortunately,
I'm not sure which conventions would qualify as fan run, rather than
professional. I'd prefer for the guests to answer my questions, rather
than get their autographs. I buy most of my memorabilia online, rather
than from the dealers, to save time and enjoy myself more at the
conventions. I hate the auctions, including those for the charities! I
want the guests to spend more time answering questions. I've still not
yet been to either PhilCon or WorldCon because I've generally not heard
of most of those guests. I liked the Panel rooms and films at the
Galactic Entertainment conventions. After what you'd just read, I dare
you [Vicki, specifically] to tell me that you're not my sort! By the
way, I'd prefer cross-posted messages to the same message posted
separately to various newsgroups, anyway, because I often use Deja News
to read/post messages!
In article <5l8eosoft036fuqiq...@4ax.com>,
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey
> Several unexpected things had happened on Saturday afternoon. For example,
> there was a bomb scare, which was linked to the Republican Convention.
> Everyone evacuated the Adams Mark Hotel for over an hour.
For an account of this incident, see
<http://www.phillynews.com:80/content/daily_news/2000/08/01/local/COPE01.htm?template=aprint.htm>
The Illinois delegation to the Republican convention had arrived in
the hotel. A box arrived for them; someone heard the box ticking, and
the hotel was evacuated for fear it might be a bomb.
The Attorney General of Illinois, James Ryan, had shipped a box of alarm
clocks to the delgates as gifts.
The press reported with amusement the mingling of Republican delegates with
costumed Trekfen outside the hotel.
--
"The next test of the Thaad antimissile interceptor | Bill Higgins
will be crucial if the Pentagon is to meet | Fermilab
its latest target of initial deployment in 2004..." | Internet:
--Joseph C. Anselmo, *AvWeek* 14 Oct 1996 p.68 | hig...@fnal.fnal.gov
(Meeting targets is pretty important in this project, I guess.)
Dave Weingart
> Several unexpected things had happened on Saturday afternoon. For example,
> there was a bomb scare, which was linked to the Republican Convention.
> Everyone evacuated the Adams Mark Hotel for over an hour.
I bet they were just waiting to use the elevators to get to the party
floors from the consuite.
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK Consonance 2001! Urban Tapestry!
mailto:phyd...@liii.com Mike Stein! Oh, yeah, and some guy
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux named Dave Wein-something-or-other.
ICQ 57055207 http://www.consonance.org
Doug Wickstrom
excited the ether to say:
>I've still not
>yet been to either PhilCon or WorldCon because I've generally not heard
>of most of those guests.
The mouse in my pocket and I say that we are not your sort.
Really.
You will _never_ find me at a convention for the purpose of
meeting actors. You will never find me at a convention where the
guests are paid to be there, as opposed to having their way paid
so they _can_ be there.
I go to conventions to be with my friends -- the ones I know and
have seen before, the ones I know and haven't met yet, and the
ones I don't know and haven't met yet. Who the guests are may
determine which conventions I attend; it will never determine my
reasons for attending conventions. It surely as Great Ghu is
invisible will never determine which conventions I work on.
--
Doug Wickstrom
"The president has kept all of the promises he intended to keep."
--George Stephanopoulos
Marilee J. Layman
>Didn't you read my articles that I'd posted last month regarding
>Roberta Rogow and Deja News?
I didn't actually read those articles. The important point is whether
you *read* here. Anybody can post anything, that doesn't mean it's
appropriate. Doug is right. We don't really care about that kind of
convention, so you would do better to post somewhere that people do.
--
Marilee J. Layman The Other*Worlds*Cafe
HOSTE...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group.
AOL Keyword: OWC http://www.webmoose.com/owc
dcs...@my-deja.com
> Any advice from other folks out there who've run up against these big
> shows? We've had our date and location picked for well over a year, so
> it's not like we can pack up and move to another date or hotel, nor
> should we have to (we were here first, after all). But I'm worried
> about loss of attendees, dealers, etc. Suggestions?
Trust me, as someone who moves between these two worlds. You won't lose
anything - the audiences are completely different. Plus Slanted Fedora
does not run panels, filks, masqs, or any other fannish activities at
its conventions. The actors are the only real draw.
And you should be able to slip into the convention and leave freebie
flyers at appropriate points to reach proto-fen who are capable of
juggling the two universes.
dcs
Paula Lieberman
news:8m7bc8$d3a$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Didn't you read my articles that I'd posted last month regarding
Roberta Rogow is all of novelist, filker, media fan, fanfic writer, and
written SF fan.
> created a great FAQ about this newsgroup, will step in to straighten
> things out [and possibly update her FAQ in the process]! Unfortunately,
> I'm not sure which conventions would qualify as fan run, rather than
> professional. I'd prefer for the guests to answer my questions, rather
I have doubts about the level of "professionalism" of Slanted Fedora -- the
two or three flyers of theirs that have come my way, struck me as having
middle schooler, if that literacy and graphics design quality. They weren't
what I consider "professional grade" flyers, and were considerably cruder
than most volunteer-run convention flyers.
As for how to tell fan-run versus commercial events, there are several
clues:
1. Most of the events which features actors are commercial
2. If it's advertisted on TV and/or radio and/or in newspapers it's probably
commercial
3. If there's nothing about stuff like "filking" and "parties" and evening
programming, it's highly unlikely to be volunteer-run
4. If it's in a convention center rather than a hotel it's probably
commercial -- if it's in a convention center and there are several hotels
involved for people to stay at, it's probably volunteer-run.
5. If the featured guests are mostly not media personalities or are more
than half not media personalities, it's highly likely likely to be
volunteer-run.
> than get their autographs. I buy most of my memorabilia online, rather
> than from the dealers, to save time and enjoy myself more at the
When you write about "memorabilia" you're indicating a gulf between you and
most of the people here. Most of the people here are into non-media written
science fiction and fantasy and the community of people who originally came
together to talk about written science fiction and fantasy, and found other
common interests -- cats, chocolate, space stuff, science, history, ancient
history, gossip about one another, running volunteer-run science fiction
conventions, etc. Some poeple here may collect "memorabilia" dealing with
media -- TV show, film, etc. -- science fiction and fantasy, but it's not a
general characteristic of this forum -- people here are much more likely to
have the problem of more tons of books, most of them not media tie-ins, that
bookshelf space to hold the books. The "memorabilai" people here tend to
have, tends to be things like convention badges and perhaps pictures taken
at conventions -- not commercial items generally.
> conventions. I hate the auctions, including those for the charities! I
> want the guests to spend more time answering questions. I've still not
As some others have mentioned here, the people here tend to want to actively
interact with other people in direct conversations, at least as much as sit
in an audience and ask questions answered from people up on a dias.
> yet been to either PhilCon or WorldCon because I've generally not heard
> of most of those guests. I liked the Panel rooms and films at the
Most of the people listed on the program at Philcons and Worldcons aren't
media personalities. Ben Bova -has- written material which was perverted
into a TV series ("The Starlost," I think it was, which Harlan Ellison sued
and won a settlement about because the produced television series was so
unlike the material it was supposedly based on written by Ben Bova and
Harlan Ellison) but is being honored as the multi Hugo Award winning former
editor of _Analog Science Fiction and Science Fact_ magazine and long-time
science fiction novelist; Bob Eggleton is one of the top science fiction and
fantasy artists, who's done number book and magazine covers, and Godzilla
artwork; Jim Baen edited Galaxy magazine, edited the New Destinies series
of magazines-in-book form, and is the founder and publisher of Baen Books.
Bob and Anne Passavoy are long-time fans, active in going to conventions and
working on them, and "filking."
For the 2001 Worldcon, Greg Bear is a Hugo-winning writer, Stephen Youll is
one of the leading artists in the field of science fiction and fantasy
illustration, Gardner Dozois is a Hugo-winning fiction writer and for many
years now the Hugo-winning editor of Asimov's Science Fiction magazine;
George Scithers published the amateur press publication "Amra" for many
years, worked on conventions, and has edited various professional science
fiction and fantasy magazines including _Weird Tales_.
> Galactic Entertainment conventions. After what you'd just read, I dare
> you [Vicki, specifically] to tell me that you're not my sort! By the
Vicki can say it very easily -- have you ever been a member of an apa? What
are the most recent ten books you've read? What's your favorite brand of
chocolate? Do you lesnerize? How many art shows have you worked on, and
would you punch out the banquet manager? If none of those things are topics
of discussion for you, this isn't the most appropriate place for you....
> way, I'd prefer cross-posted messages to the same message posted
> separately to various newsgroups, anyway, because I often use Deja News
> to read/post messages!
>
> In article <5l8eosoft036fuqiq...@4ax.com>,
> nims...@uswest.net wrote:
> > On Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:39:35 GMT, "ERIC KATZ"
> > <ek...@cyberdude.com> excited the ether to say:
> >
> > >What's wrong with posting details about PREVIOUS, rather than future
> > >commercial conventions to the fandom group?
> >
> > (consulting mouse in pocket) We're not your sort. Really. We
> > stay away from commercial conventions and autograph selling. It
> > doesn't interest us as a group. Those who are interested
> > individually will read about it in the _appropriate_ newsgroups.
> >
> > If you had any actual experience with rec.arts.sf.fandom, you
> > would know this. If you had any actual participation in
> > rec.arts.sf.fandom, this would be blindingly obvious. You
> > responded to someone in the rec.arts.sf.fandom newsgroup, who is
> > relatively new, and hasn't learned yet not to respond to
> > crossposts without setting followups.
> >
> > Here's something to chew on: anything crossposted to three or
> > more newsgroups is probably off-topic to all but one of them.
> >
> > Followups set to rec.arts.startrek.fandom.
> >
> > --
> > Doug Wickstrom
> > "I must say that I find television very educational. Every time
> someone
> > switches it on I go into another room and read a good book." --
> Groucho Marx
> >
> >
>
>
Steve Cooper
>
> ERIC <ek...@cyberdude.com> wrote in message
> news:8m7bc8$d3a$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > than from the dealers, to save time and enjoy myself more at the
>
> When you write about "memorabilia" you're indicating a gulf between you and
> most of the people here. Most of the people here are into non-media written
> science fiction and fantasy and the community of people who originally came
> together to talk about written science fiction and fantasy, and found other
> common interests -- cats, chocolate, space stuff, science, history, ancient
> history, gossip about one another, running volunteer-run science fiction
> conventions, etc. Some poeple here may collect "memorabilia" dealing with
> media -- TV show, film, etc. -- science fiction and fantasy, but it's not a
> general characteristic of this forum -- people here are much more likely to
> have the problem of more tons of books, most of them not media tie-ins, that
> bookshelf space to hold the books. The "memorabilai" people here tend to
> have, tends to be things like convention badges and perhaps pictures taken
> at conventions -- not commercial items generally.
>
type of fan who go to commercial and volunteer conventions, fans who are
comfortable hanging round rasff and those that aren't. But I don't think
this difference is as simple as our preferred media, just how many of us
have bookshelves full of videos tapes as well as books. The difference
is more in our attitude, the books we read, the videos we watch are as
much sources of argument and debate as they are entertainment, what use
is memorabilia to this. As for panels and guests at cons, I've always
seen them a facilitators, to get the debate going, not to sit up there
answering questions. To paraphrase Douglas Adams in HHGttG, where's the
fun in arguing the existence/nonexistence of Canadian cuisine if some
authors going to come along with a Canadian recipe book.
In an aside,
Dear Abi, does one have to be a cat lover to really belong in rasff. I've
always had this sneaking love of dogs what can I do. I used to love the
work of Jerry Pourenelle, but I grew out of it, will the same happen with
cats. PS: I do quite like kittens tho.
Steve Cooper
Elisabeth Carey
<snip>
> Most of the people listed on the program at Philcons and Worldcons aren't
> media personalities. Ben Bova -has- written material which was perverted
> into a TV series ("The Starlost," I think it was, which Harlan Ellison sued
> and won a settlement about because the produced television series was so
> unlike the material it was supposedly based on written by Ben Bova and
> Harlan Ellison) but is being honored as the multi Hugo Award winning former
> editor of _Analog Science Fiction and Science Fact_ magazine and long-time
> science fiction novelist;
A small correction: Harlan Ellison wrote the story that got abused;
Ben Bova was hired as the science consultant for the series. He has
told some painfully funny stories about attempting to have even the
slightest impact on the scientific inaccuracies perpetrated on the
series, and eventually fictionalized his experience to protect the
guilty in the novel _The Starcrossed_.
<snip>
--
Lis Carey
This post is copyright 2000 by Elisabeth Carey. Permission to
insert links when displaying it is available for $100. Use in
this fashion constitutes acceptance of these terms.
Tom Galloway
Elisabeth Carey <lis....@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Paula Lieberman wrote:
>> media personalities. Ben Bova -has- written material which was perverted
>> into a TV series ("The Starlost," I think it was, which Harlan Ellison sued
>> and won a settlement about because the produced television series was so
>> unlike the material it was supposedly based on written by Ben Bova and
>> Harlan Ellison) but is being honored as the multi Hugo Award winning former
>Ben Bova was hired as the science consultant for the series. He has
>told some painfully funny stories about attempting to have even the
>slightest impact on the scientific inaccuracies perpetrated on the
>series, and eventually fictionalized his experience to protect the
>guilty in the novel _The Starcrossed_.
Not quite complete; I think Paula was conflating Bova and Ellison's roles
on The Starlost and their separate written fiction collaboration Brillo
about a robot cop (thus the title, a pun on "metal fuzz", being written
when fuzz was a more common term for the cops). There was at least one
tv series, Future Cop, maybe another one or two, which was apparently based
on the story without compensation. The writers ended up winning a court
case with substantial for the time financial award based on their having
been ripped off by the series producers.
tyg t...@netcom.com
Steve Miller
ERIC KATZ wrote:
> What's wrong with posting details about PREVIOUS, rather than future
> commercial conventions to the fandom group?
ERIK KATZ: please understand us here. We live in a Universe where fans
don't (and shouldn't) pay money for autographs, where fans and pros are
willingly part of the same community. We go to conventions because we want
to, not just to get two more autographs so we can sell the complete set
on eBay, and not to get half the at-the-door-take.
As a professional writer I've turned down convention invitations because
the con had special "pay more to meet the stars" deals. I was
shocked when I was a Guest of Honor at a convention and found one of
the other convention guests standing in the dealer's room with a
"Take a Picture of me, just $(?) " in front of his table. What a crock!
If he'd been selling a book he'd written, or some artwork, or a magazine for
that money
I wouldn't have minded -- but $ for the right to take a photograph? Pfui.
You're in the wrong place. Trust us.
Steve
--
Steve Miller -- co-author of the Liaden Universe
Buy Plan B and Partners in Necessity at fine sf shops
http://www.korval.com/liad.htm
Laura Haywood-Cory
> Trust me, as someone who moves between these two worlds. You won't lose
> anything - the audiences are completely different. Plus Slanted Fedora
> does not run panels, filks, masqs, or any other fannish activities at
> its conventions. The actors are the only real draw.
Yeah, being something of a trek fan myself, I know what you mean about
moving between the two worlds. I've paid to get into a couple of these
shows before.
> And you should be able to slip into the convention and leave freebie
> flyers at appropriate points to reach proto-fen who are capable of
> juggling the two universes.
Good plan; I'll try to organize something along those lines. Other
suggestions welcome.
Laura Haywood-Cory
> You're in the wrong place. Trust us.
As one of the people who sorta got this thread rolling (sorry 'bout that
first cross-post), I'd like to point out that perhaps saying "We don't
want your kind in here" maybe isn't the best way to entice Star trek fans
into what's referred to here as more traditional fandom. Of course, if you
don't want to entice new fans here, feel free to ignore me--seriously. I
know some folks don't think it's the job of fandom to bring in new fans.
It doesn't seem fair to assume that just because someone is a
Trekkie/Trekker/KAG member/etc and posting about a Trek con that they have
no interest in general fandom. To use myself as an example (and make
myself a target for rotten tomatoes, ridicule, etc):
I'm a Trek fan; I've paid to go to a few of these professional Trek shows
where the main objective seems to be "bilk the Trekkies." Sometimes, when
you're in an area like Charlotte, where I grew up, these pro shows were
the only vaguely sf-like things around, and I went to a couple of 'em
several years ago, in the hopes of meeting some new friends. I did meet a
couple of people there, though we've lost touch now.
Since then, I've moved back to Chapel Hill, founded a sf club, archived
UNC's dead sf club, co-founded a fan-run 501(c)3 convention, contributed
to the SFC Bulletin and joined a WorldCon bid. I like more than Trek (my
bookshelves are overflowing with sf, fantasy, horror and history
books)--all very fannish, yes? But I still consider myself a Trek
fan. <cliche>So you can't always assume things.</cliche>
Alison Hopkins
Laura Haywood-Cory wrote in message <8m9m6o$t50$1...@news2.isis.unc.edu>...
>Steve Miller <s...@korval.com> wrote:
>
>> You're in the wrong place. Trust us.
>
>As one of the people who sorta got this thread rolling (sorry 'bout that
>first cross-post), I'd like to point out that perhaps saying "We don't
>want your kind in here" maybe isn't the best way to entice Star trek fans
>into what's referred to here as more traditional fandom. Of course, if you
>don't want to entice new fans here, feel free to ignore me--seriously. I
>know some folks don't think it's the job of fandom to bring in new fans.
>
>It doesn't seem fair to assume that just because someone is a
>Trekkie/Trekker/KAG member/etc and posting about a Trek con that they have
>no interest in general fandom. To use myself as an example (and make
>myself a target for rotten tomatoes, ridicule, etc):
>
>I'm a Trek fan; I've paid to go to a few of these professional Trek shows
>where the main objective seems to be "bilk the Trekkies." Sometimes, when
>you're in an area like Charlotte, where I grew up, these pro shows were
>the only vaguely sf-like things around, and I went to a couple of 'em
>several years ago, in the hopes of meeting some new friends. I did meet a
>couple of people there, though we've lost touch now.
>
>Since then, I've moved back to Chapel Hill, founded a sf club, archived
>UNC's dead sf club, co-founded a fan-run 501(c)3 convention, contributed
>to the SFC Bulletin and joined a WorldCon bid. I like more than Trek (my
>bookshelves are overflowing with sf, fantasy, horror and history
>books)--all very fannish, yes? But I still consider myself a Trek
>fan. <cliche>So you can't always assume things.</cliche>
>
AOL - and I've also run "media" ish cons in the UK. Unlike the US, we don't
have "pro" cons, for which I am very thankful. Well, there *was* one chap
who went belly up, and another bad apple who pretends to be a fan, and is
about to go belly up, by all accounts. We've a rather nice tradition of
raising siginificant amounts of cash for charity. Even the one I co-ran last
year, which fell just short of break even, was still able to send about six
hundred pounds to charity as a result of the auction.
Ali
Max
<lgha...@email.unc.edu> said:
>Steve Miller <s...@korval.com> wrote:
>
>> You're in the wrong place. Trust us.
>
>As one of the people who sorta got this thread rolling (sorry 'bout that
>first cross-post), I'd like to point out that perhaps saying "We don't
>want your kind in here" maybe isn't the best way to entice Star trek fans
>into what's referred to here as more traditional fandom.
I don't think the general meaning was that the *person* was in the
wrong place, just that the *material* is. You can be as fannish as you
like, but if all you're going to spout off about is the cost of
autographs at a professional convention then in this particular place
you're wasting your time.
--
Ask a fish-head anything you want to
They won't answer, they can't talk
mike weber
<fn...@dial.pipex.com> typed
>Even the one I co-ran last
>year, which fell just short of break even, was still able to send about six
>hundred pounds to charity as a result of the auction.
>
Congratulations that con!
--
He had long ago come to the conclusion that there were no
"things Man was Not Meant To Know". He was willing to believe
that there were things Man was Too Dumb To Figure Out
<mike weber> <kras...@mindspring.com>
Ambitious Incomplete web site: http://weberworld.virtualave.net
Alison Hopkins
mike weber wrote in message <3988850a...@news.mindspring.com>...
>On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 19:57:00 +0100, "Alison Hopkins"
><fn...@dial.pipex.com> typed
>
>>Even the one I co-ran last
>>year, which fell just short of break even, was still able to send about
six
>>hundred pounds to charity as a result of the auction.
>>
>Congratulations that con!
>--
Thank you - it was very satisfying indeed.
Ali
Ruth S.
news:8m9t48$jh$1...@lure.pipex.net...
[Pro conrunners]
> Well, there *was* one chap
> who went belly up, and another bad apple who pretends to be a fan, and is
> about to go belly up, by all accounts.
He is? Splendid news!
--
Person X.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get caught in jet engines.
Vicki Rosenzweig
>Didn't you read my articles that I'd posted last month regarding
>Roberta Rogow and Deja News? I hope that Vicki Rosenzweig, who'd
>created a great FAQ about this newsgroup, will step in to straighten
>things out [and possibly update her FAQ in the process]!
Roberta Rogow is a fine person, but she isn't a frequently asked
question for rec.arts.sf.fandom.
>Unfortunately,
>I'm not sure which conventions would qualify as fan run, rather than
>professional. I'd prefer for the guests to answer my questions, rather
>than get their autographs. I buy most of my memorabilia online, rather
>than from the dealers, to save time and enjoy myself more at the
>conventions. I hate the auctions, including those for the charities! I
>want the guests to spend more time answering questions. I've still not
>yet been to either PhilCon or WorldCon because I've generally not heard
>of most of those guests. I liked the Panel rooms and films at the
>Galactic Entertainment conventions. After what you'd just read, I dare
>you [Vicki, specifically]
I would like to state, in case it wasn't obvious to everyone, that I
am in no sense in charge of rec.arts.sf.fandom (or any other newsgroup),
nor do I speak for it.
> to tell me that you're not my sort! By the
>way, I'd prefer cross-posted messages to the same message posted
>separately to various newsgroups, anyway, because I often use Deja News
>to read/post messages!
Well, that's basic netiquette--if it actually makes sense to post
something to two or more groups, cross-post. The point Doug was
making was that it is rare for something to be on-topic for several
newsgroups: announcements may be, but even then, it's often a good
idea to set follow-ups to only one group.
--
Copyright 2000 Vicki Rosenzweig. Permission to insert links when
displaying is available for $100 per link. Use in this fashion
constitutes acceptance of these terms. v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
ERIC
newsgroups, I still sometimes wish that Deja News would repost those
old messages!
You see, at a Galactic Entertainment convention 3 or 4 years ago, I
made the mistake of paying an extra fee for Anthony Daniels's
autograph. Unfortunately, he wouldn't publicly admit that TIME-WARNER
wouldn't pay him enough to reprise his role on some tapes! Also, he
insisted on personalizing his autograph! I regret wasting my money!
Last year, I refused to pay for the autographs of the Crusade actors at
another Slanted Fedora convention.
Though assorted mishaps were the exception, rather than the rule, at
this convention, there were so many of them that I'd felt that the
information belongs in this newsgroup, among others! In some ways, this
felt like a fan-run convention!
To my knowledge, no actors at any conventions that I've attended have
ever charged anyone for personal, rather than professional, pictures!
This seems ridiculous!
Finally, I'd posted Dave Scott's apology to various newsgroups,
including this 1. After you'll read it, please post some replies and
email him. When you'll read it, you'll understand why it's appropriate
for this newsgroup.
After what you'd just read about my feelings towards assorted actors, I
hope that you'll realize why my messages belong in this newsgroup,
among others. Also, there are many other forums, including clubs! If
you want many links to great websites, please visit
http://www.geocities.com/mftf.geo/PAGE.html.
By the way, I've never bought anything on Ebay. In fact, I doubt that
I'd sell anything that's autographed while the celebrities are still
alive because the stuff isn't yet that valuable, and this seems
somewhat like copyright infringement! Now that you've read this
article, I dare you to again accuse me of being in the wrong place!
In article <398844EB...@korval.com>,
Steve Miller <s...@korval.com> wrote:
>
>
> ERIC KATZ wrote:
>
> > What's wrong with posting details about PREVIOUS, rather than future
> > commercial conventions to the fandom group?
>
> ERIC KATZ: please understand us here. We live in a Universe where fans
> don't (and shouldn't) pay money for autographs, where fans and pros
are willingly part of the same community. We go to conventions because
we want to, not just to get two more autographs so we can sell the
complete set on Ebay, and not to get half the at-the-door-take.
>
> As a professional writer I've turned down convention invitations
because the con had special "pay more to meet the stars" deals. I was
> shocked when I was a Guest of Honor at a convention and found one of
> the other convention guests standing in the dealer's room with a
> "Take a Picture of me, just $(?) " in front of his table. What a
crock! If he'd been selling a book he'd written, or some artwork, or a
magazine for that money I wouldn't have minded -- but $ for the right
to take a photograph?
Pfui.
>
> You're in the wrong place. Trust us.
>
> Steve
> --
> Steve Miller -- co-author of the Liaden Universe
> Buy Plan B and Partners in Necessity at fine sf shops
> http://www.korval.com/liad.htm
>
>
Tom Galloway
>UNC's dead sf club, co-founded a fan-run 501(c)3 convention, contributed
>to the SFC Bulletin and joined a WorldCon bid. I like more than Trek (my
>bookshelves are overflowing with sf, fantasy, horror and history
>books)--all very fannish, yes? But I still consider myself a Trek
>fan. <cliche>So you can't always assume things.</cliche>
Heck, there are a not insignificant number of fannish sf writers who have
written Trek, and a fair number of sf fans who have been Tuckerized as
Trek characters.
Admiral Tom Y. Galloway,
Commander Starbase 24 [Star Trek #4, second DC Comics series]
tyg t...@netcom.com
Elisabeth Carey
>
> Even though I was flamed 2 years ago for crossposting HTML to several
> newsgroups, I still sometimes wish that Deja News would repost those
> old messages!
>
> You see, at a Galactic Entertainment convention 3 or 4 years ago, I
> made the mistake of paying an extra fee for Anthony Daniels's
> autograph. Unfortunately, he wouldn't publicly admit that TIME-WARNER
> wouldn't pay him enough to reprise his role on some tapes! Also, he
> insisted on personalizing his autograph! I regret wasting my money!
>
> Last year, I refused to pay for the autographs of the Crusade actors at
> another Slanted Fedora convention.
Pardon me, but did you read Steve Miller's post, that you're
responding to here?
Paying for autographs, especially the autographs of actors already
being paid just to be present, is not a concern for most rassefers.
Fan-run media conventions usually have to pay their media guests--but
that's the headliners, not most of the people participating in the
convention programming. I have not heard of the name guests charging
for their autographs at a fan-run media convention, except as a
fundraiser for a charity, but I could be under-informed there, as it
has been a few years since I attended a media convention.
> Though assorted mishaps were the exception, rather than the rule, at
> this convention, there were so many of them that I'd felt that the
> information belongs in this newsgroup, among others! In some ways, this
> felt like a fan-run convention!
It sounds nothing like a fan-run convention. You appear to be
complaining about incompetence in the execution of what they were
doing. Either pro or fan organizations can be either competent or
incompetent. The kinds of concerns you're talking about have little to
with fan-run conventions, including fan-run media conventions,
although there'd be a slightly greater overlap there, as they do have
to pay their guests, and those guests aren't part of the fannish
community.
Typical concerns at a fan-run convention: Was the programming good?
How late did the programming run? Were there good parties at night? If
the convention has an art show, was it a good one? Was there an
acceptable range of restaurants within a reasonable distance? Was the
consuite a comfortable, pleasant place to be? Was registration
well-organized? Was the hotel clean and comfortable, and reasonably
hospitable to the needs of fans, which differ somewhat from the needs
of business conventions? WERE MY FRIENDS THERE?
> To my knowledge, no actors at any conventions that I've attended have
> ever charged anyone for personal, rather than professional, pictures!
> This seems ridiculous!
Paying for pictures or autographs seems ridiculous.
> Finally, I'd posted Dave Scott's apology to various newsgroups,
> including this 1. After you'll read it, please post some replies and
> email him. When you'll read it, you'll understand why it's appropriate
> for this newsgroup.
>
> After what you'd just read about my feelings towards assorted actors, I
> hope that you'll realize why my messages belong in this newsgroup,
> among others.
Um, no. For-profit gate show "conventions" don't interest most of the
people here, whether well or badly run. And Dave Scott's apology does
tend to make it abundantly clear that he's apologizing to people who
*paid* for something and were upset that they did not get what they
felt was value for their dollar. Fan-run conventions don't sell
tickets; they sell memberships. The difference in attitude that
represents is crucial. They're not there just to be passively
entertained; they're there to see their friends and *participate* in
the convention.
> Also, there are many other forums, including clubs! If
> you want many links to great websites, please visit
> http://www.geocities.com/mftf.geo/PAGE.html.
>
> By the way, I've never bought anything on Ebay. In fact, I doubt that
> I'd sell anything that's autographed while the celebrities are still
> alive because the stuff isn't yet that valuable, and this seems
> somewhat like copyright infringement! Now that you've read this
> article, I dare you to again accuse me of being in the wrong place!
Again, this is a ringing statement of concerns very different from the
average fan in rassf. Wouldn't sell anything autographed "because it
isn't yet that valuable" ? Most people here would usually not sell
anything autographed because it has personal significance--if it
doesn't, why get the autograph in the first place?
<snip Steve Miller's quoted post>
--
Lis Carey
This post is copyright 2000 by Elisabeth Carey. Permission to
insert links when displaying it is available for $100. Use in
Laura Haywood-Cory
> about to go belly up, by all accounts. We've a rather nice tradition of
> raising siginificant amounts of cash for charity. Even the one I co-ran last
> year, which fell just short of break even, was still able to send about six
> hundred pounds to charity as a result of the auction.
Hey, what's your charity? Ours is the local literacy council. I took some
flack on SMOFS a couple years ago from a few people who thought we should
have picked one of the fan funds, but our feeling on it was, "well, if
they can't READ, they can't read sf," and for all the work some of us are
doing to change things, the fact is that a majority of sf fans in NC
aren't really aware of TAFF and DUFF. Maybe in a few years we'll change
our charity, or add a fan fund...
Alison Hopkins
Laura Haywood-Cory wrote in message <8mbo4n$mk7$2...@news2.isis.unc.edu>...
>Alison Hopkins <fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>> about to go belly up, by all accounts. We've a rather nice tradition of
>> raising siginificant amounts of cash for charity. Even the one I co-ran
last
>> year, which fell just short of break even, was still able to send about
six
>> hundred pounds to charity as a result of the auction.
>
>Hey, what's your charity? Ours is the local literacy council. I took some
>flack on SMOFS a couple years ago from a few people who thought we should
>have picked one of the fan funds, but our feeling on it was, "well, if
>they can't READ, they can't read sf," and for all the work some of us are
>doing to change things, the fact is that a majority of sf fans in NC
>aren't really aware of TAFF and DUFF. Maybe in a few years we'll change
>our charity, or add a fan fund...
>
It's varied according to the concom, but for the majority of the ones I've
run, it was Muscular Dystrophy and CARE. We also gave people who bought
things in the charity auction the option of doing a pick your own. MD was
chosen because there was a long time Trek fan who died of it. We just rather
liked CARE - they provide relief for third world poverty. The literacy
council sounds very appropriate.
Ali
Alison Hopkins
Ruth S. wrote in message <3988...@news.server.worldonline.co.uk>...
>"Alison Hopkins" <fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
>news:8m9t48$jh$1...@lure.pipex.net...
>[Pro conrunners]
>> Well, there *was* one chap
>> who went belly up, and another bad apple who pretends to be a fan, and is
>
>
I wonder if you and I are referring to the same person. <g> That particular
organisation has a Compulsory Liquidation Order against it.
Ali
Alison Hopkins
Elisabeth Carey wrote in message <3989549C...@mediaone.net>...
[....]
>Again, this is a ringing statement of concerns very different from the
>average fan in rassf. Wouldn't sell anything autographed "because it
>isn't yet that valuable" ? Most people here would usually not sell
>anything autographed because it has personal significance--if it
>doesn't, why get the autograph in the first place?
>
Exactly. I do own a number of signed photos, but they've all been gifts from
guests at cons I've run, or got to know in some other way. Same for books,
too, the ones I own that are signed are those written by an author I know.
Except for the one I've just acquired. Buzz Aldrin's latest, signed by him.
KPFK's Hour 25 was doing them as part of a pledge drive, and I couldn't
resist. And I am deeply envious of my friend who met and interviewed the
man.
Ali
fia...@cpcug.org
Alison Hopkins <fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>Elisabeth Carey wrote in message <3989549C...@mediaone.net>...
>[....]
>
>>average fan in rassf. Wouldn't sell anything autographed "because it
>>isn't yet that valuable" ? Most people here would usually not sell
>>anything autographed because it has personal significance--if it
>>doesn't, why get the autograph in the first place?
>>
>
>guests at cons I've run, or got to know in some other way. Same for books,
>too, the ones I own that are signed are those written by an author I know.
>Except for the one I've just acquired. Buzz Aldrin's latest, signed by him.
>KPFK's Hour 25 was doing them as part of a pledge drive, and I couldn't
>resist. And I am deeply envious of my friend who met and interviewed the
>man.
I've got a signed copy of the book, too (_Return_, co-authored with John
Barnes). Aldrin was doing a book signing over at the Pentagon Book Store
(it's the only book store I've ever been to where you can't enter without
an escort by somebody who has a security clearance). Thought I might get
to say hi to him, or to shake his hand, or something, but he didn't even
look up. Signed the copy, another was put in front of him, I was given my
copy and moved out of the way to let the line progress. Not quite what I
expected, but hey -- life is full of different kinds of experiences.
Rich
====
MIMOSA web site: http://www.jophan.org/mimosa
Vicki Rosenzweig
>Even though I was flamed 2 years ago for crossposting HTML to several
>newsgroups, I still sometimes wish that Deja News would repost those
>old messages!
>
>You see, at a Galactic Entertainment convention 3 or 4 years ago, I
>made the mistake of paying an extra fee for Anthony Daniels's
>autograph. Unfortunately, he wouldn't publicly admit that TIME-WARNER
>wouldn't pay him enough to reprise his role on some tapes! Also, he
>insisted on personalizing his autograph! I regret wasting my money!
"Insisted on personalizing his autograph!"? The mind boggles.
I cherish a very beat-up copy of Ursula Le Guin's _Always Coming
Home_ that she autographed to me specifically: it says "Heya, Vicki!
Ursula Le Guin (intrumo)"
I have no idea if that would be of any commercial value, and I
don't care: it's a hook for a memory of contact with an author
I greatly admire.
Cally Soukup
> You see, at a Galactic Entertainment convention 3 or 4 years ago, I
> made the mistake of paying an extra fee for Anthony Daniels's
> autograph. Unfortunately, he wouldn't publicly admit that TIME-WARNER
> wouldn't pay him enough to reprise his role on some tapes! Also, he
> insisted on personalizing his autograph! I regret wasting my money!
This is completely alien to me. First of all, I don't go to
conventions where people have to pay to get an autograph. Second of
all, I don't badger strangers about their personal financial
decisions. Third of all, I treasure the personalized autographs that
I have, because they are almost all from people I've come to regard
as friends. I don't collect autographs as a way to get rich; I
collect autographs to remind me of a moment and to provide some
egoboo to my friends and other writers for whom I have great respect.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Kip Williams
> I've got a signed copy of the book, too (_Return_, co-authored with John
> Barnes). Aldrin was doing a book signing over at the Pentagon Book Store
> (it's the only book store I've ever been to where you can't enter without
> an escort by somebody who has a security clearance). Thought I might get
> to say hi to him, or to shake his hand, or something, but he didn't even
> look up. Signed the copy, another was put in front of him, I was given my
> copy and moved out of the way to let the line progress. Not quite what I
> expected, but hey -- life is full of different kinds of experiences.
I wasn't expecting much, but after Aldrin signed my book, he looked
up and I said something grateful and he said something pleasant, and
then he held out his hand. Not slow on the uptake for once, I shook
it gladly.
There was a slightly confused older man in line next to me, who
turned out to have friends in common with the astronaut. Cathy tells
me this man was one of the ones who convinced NASA to use a lunar
orbiter. (We're near NASA-Langley here.)
--
--Kip (Williams)
amusing the world at http://members.home.net/kipw/
ERIC
I like both cats and dogs. Unfortunately, I have no pets because
they're not allowed in my apartment.
To quote myself from my many profile pages, I'm a left-handed, single,
Jewish, vegetarian, Sagittarius horse, who loves science fiction. A
horse refers to the Chinese Zodiac [my birth year]. Everything else
should be self-evident.
Though I love meeting the casts from assorted science fiction TV shows,
I'd also like to meet the authors from audiobooks/comics that probably
should become TV episodes. That's the main reason why I plan to attend
WorldCon. I want to meet the author of the PHANTOM MENACE sequel, Greg
Bear.
I'd enjoyed talking to Lolita Fatjo, besides the actors. After I'll use
up my film and get it developed, I'll put her picture online. I wonder
if assorted shows would get better or worse ratings if fanfiction would
be accepted.
I'm much more interested in getting my questions answered than in
getting autographs.
Finally, I'd started the Slanted Fedora thread on only 3 newsgroups:
This 1, the Star Trek fandom newsgroup [probably the most appropriate
1], and a B5 group. However, a very dissatisfied fan had posted his
message to many STAR TREK groups out of context! At least I'd posted a
link to Dave Scott's Slanted Fedora page about the convention, so that
everyone would have a better idea what I was talking about! This is why
I was redundant via crossposts to most of those newsgroups. At least,
Dave's reply and email address are now on these newsgroups! I hope that
I've verified which of my material belongs in this newsgroup.
P Nielsen Hayden
>
>Elisabeth Carey wrote in message <3989549C...@mediaone.net>...
>[....]
>
>>average fan in rassf. Wouldn't sell anything autographed "because it
>>isn't yet that valuable" ? Most people here would usually not sell
>>anything autographed because it has personal significance--if it
>>doesn't, why get the autograph in the first place?
>>
>
>guests at cons I've run, or got to know in some other way. Same for books,
>too, the ones I own that are signed are those written by an author I know.
>Except for the one I've just acquired. Buzz Aldrin's latest, signed by him.
>KPFK's Hour 25 was doing them as part of a pledge drive, and I couldn't
>resist. And I am deeply envious of my friend who met and interviewed the
>man.
You can be envious of me, too. I had an absolutely fascinating poolside
lunch with Buzz at a Beverly Hills hotel late last summer, as we concluded
negotiations for Tor/Forge to publish that very book. We had started in
Buzz's penthouse apartment on Wilshire Boulevard, festooned with mementos
ranging from moon rocks to the G. I. Joe "Buzz Aldrin" doll...As lunch
progressed, I drew him out on his idea for a set of permanent rotating
Earth-Mars shuttles, the notion he calls the "Cycler," and he grabbed the
ashtray and the salt and pepper shakers and started showing exactly how it
would work. Time and space fell away from me and I entered into the Big
Time. I am in a Heinlein juvenile, I thought. A famous grizzled astronaut
is grabbing the saltshaker and the ashtray to show me how space travel
works. It was a Moment. Thousands of years later, I came back to Earth.
Later that day, I went to Disneyland with Will Shetterly and Emma Bull.
Some days, you live enough to make up for a lot of empty ones. That was one
of those days.
--
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
who actually quite likes his job
Elisabeth Carey
<snip>
> You can be envious of me, too. I had an absolutely fascinating poolside
> lunch with Buzz at a Beverly Hills hotel late last summer, as we concluded
> negotiations for Tor/Forge to publish that very book. We had started in
> Buzz's penthouse apartment on Wilshire Boulevard, festooned with mementos
> ranging from moon rocks to the G. I. Joe "Buzz Aldrin" doll...As lunch
> progressed, I drew him out on his idea for a set of permanent rotating
> Earth-Mars shuttles, the notion he calls the "Cycler," and he grabbed the
> ashtray and the salt and pepper shakers and started showing exactly how it
> would work. Time and space fell away from me and I entered into the Big
> Time. I am in a Heinlein juvenile, I thought. A famous grizzled astronaut
> is grabbing the saltshaker and the ashtray to show me how space travel
> works. It was a Moment. Thousands of years later, I came back to Earth.
> Later that day, I went to Disneyland with Will Shetterly and Emma Bull.
> Some days, you live enough to make up for a lot of empty ones. That was one
> of those days.
I am green with envy.
My cats will be very confused when they notice.
Ed Dravecky III
> By the way, I've never bought anything on Ebay. In fact, I doubt that
> I'd sell anything that's autographed while the celebrities are still
> alive because the stuff isn't yet that valuable, and this seems
> somewhat like copyright infringement! Now that you've read this
> article, I dare you to again accuse me of being in the wrong place!
Hey, you completely misunderstand copyright and are proud to show
the rest of the group. You spark heated debates about things that
bear talking about. You're not in it for the money (uh, sort of).
You belong here, but read for a while before attacking the group
again, okay? (Also, there's lots to buy at eBay besides signed
memorabilia. They have books, too.)
--
URGENT! My new e-mail address is e...@dravecky.com and the
old dshe...@netcom.com address will be shut down on 9/30.
Please update your address books accordingly. (Thanks.)
Doug Berry
p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden), wrote thusly:
>You can be envious of me, too.
<snip description of day I would sell my soul for>
That odd green light you'll see on satellite pictures tonight is
me fluorescing in the ultra-green range.
--
Douglas E. Berry grid...@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
ERIC
attended PhilCon because I've generally not read/heard any stories by
any of the guests, and I'd often spent my weekends doing my college
homework and watching TV shows. However, providing that I may
familiarize myself with some of the guests in time, this year may be
different because I've finally graduated from college. I believe that
Roberta Rogow will attend both that convention and WorldCon. I plan to
attend WorldCon because I want to meet Greg Bear. Then, maybe I'll be
in a better position to contribute to this newsgroup.
I'd initially shared information regarding that Slanted Fedora
convention in this newsgroup because Claudia, who'd never appeared in
any STAR TREK shows or films, was there. I didn't expect to get such a
negative reaction from some people. Finally, I hope that some
additional authors within this newsgroup will take the time to
proofread their messages for misspelled words before they'll condemn
others for getting off topic.
mike weber
typed
>In article <8md8be$qji$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> ek...@cyberdude.com "ERIC" writes:
>
>> Though I love meeting the casts from assorted science fiction TV shows,
>> I'd also like to meet the authors from audiobooks/comics that probably
>> should become TV episodes.
>
>That is such an amazing sentence.
>
>I think this person is not on the same planet I am on.
>
Well, same *planet* -- but it's in the Earth-Bizarro universe,
donchaknow.
Patrick Connors
: Besides, I doubt that I'd ever been to a fan run convention! I've not
: attended PhilCon because I've generally not read/heard any stories by
: any of the guests, and I'd often spent my weekends doing my college
: homework and watching TV shows. However, providing that I may
: familiarize myself with some of the guests in time, this year may be
: different because I've finally graduated from college. I believe that
: Roberta Rogow will attend both that convention and WorldCon. I plan to
: attend WorldCon because I want to meet Greg Bear. Then, maybe I'll be
: in a better position to contribute to this newsgroup.
Actually, regular reading of this newsgroup will put you in a better
position to contribute. Stick around awhile and get to know us.
--
Patrick Connors |
| Dance like there's nobody watching
|
Rob Hansen
>Finally, I hope that some
>additional authors within this newsgroup will take the time to
>proofread their messages for misspelled words before they'll condemn
>others for getting off topic.
So typos are equivalent to posting stuff to a newsgroup where it's
off-topic? What a bizarre viewpoint.
--
Rob Hansen
=============================================
Home Page: http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/rob/
Morris M. Keesan
Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <8md8be$qji$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> ek...@cyberdude.com "ERIC" writes:
>
>> Though I love meeting the casts from assorted science fiction TV shows,
>> I'd also like to meet the authors from audiobooks/comics that probably
>> should become TV episodes.
>
>That is such an amazing sentence.
>
>I think this person is not on the same planet I am on.
I'm still stunned by the rest of the paragraph:
>That's the main reason why I plan to attend WorldCon. I want to
>meet the author of the PHANTOM MENACE sequel, Greg Bear.
If you look around, ERIC, you should be able to meet
Joan D. Vinge, author of "Return of the Jedi: The Storybook
Based on the Movie" and co-author of the "Lost in Space"
novelization. Unfortunately, you won't be able to meet that
Asimov guy who wrote the story the Robin Williams movie was
based on, or Robert Heinlein, best known for the movie
Starship Troopers.
--
Morris M. Keesan -- kee...@world.std.com
http://world.std.com/~keesan/ -- latest set of baby pictures added 8/3/2000
Alison Hopkins
Rob Hansen wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 18:28:44 GMT, ERIC <ek...@cyberdude.com> wrote:
>
>>Finally, I hope that some
>>additional authors within this newsgroup will take the time to
>>proofread their messages for misspelled words before they'll condemn
>>others for getting off topic.
>
>So typos are equivalent to posting stuff to a newsgroup where it's
>off-topic? What a bizarre viewpoint.
>--
That's a Basque word, You Know. <g>
Ali
Tom Galloway
Morris M. Keesan <kee...@world.std.com> wrote:
>If you look around, ERIC, you should be able to meet
>Joan D. Vinge, author of "Return of the Jedi: The Storybook
>Based on the Movie" and co-author of the "Lost in Space"
>novelization. Unfortunately, you won't be able to meet that
>Asimov guy who wrote the story the Robin Williams movie was
>based on, or Robert Heinlein, best known for the movie Starship Troopers.
But he should be able to meet the other author responsible for Bicentennial
Man, namely Robert Silverberg (as I recall, the movie credits listed
both the original Asimov story and the much later extention to novel
length Positronic Man by Silverberg).
tyg t...@netcom.com
John Boston
>
>P Nielsen Hayden wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>
>I am green with envy.
>
>My cats will be very confused when they notice.
Cue thread on color vision or lack of it in cats, right?
John Boston
Paula Lieberman
news:8md8be$qji$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Look, I'll try not to waste anyone's time by repeating myself.
>
> I'd also like to meet the authors from audiobooks/comics that probably
> WorldCon. I want to meet the author of the PHANTOM MENACE sequel, Greg
> Bear.
Checking www.chicon.org and looking at the list of program participants,
might give you a closer idea of who will and who won't be at the convention
whom you've heard of. Also, check out www.worldcon.org and the link on
www.fanac.org "worldcon albums" where there are links and pictures
available to Worldcons, which include pictures showin -some- of what
worldcons are like.
Alison Scott
>In article <8md8be$qji$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> ek...@cyberdude.com "ERIC" writes:
>
>> Though I love meeting the casts from assorted science fiction TV shows,
>> I'd also like to meet the authors from audiobooks/comics that probably
>> should become TV episodes.
>
>That is such an amazing sentence.
>
>I think this person is not on the same planet I am on.
You know, I think he's the person from one of the futures they told us
about when I was small. Remember the one where nobody learnt to read
and got all their entertainment through TV, and, um, audiobooks and
comics?
Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be a particularly common future, at
least not given the amount of time that Marianne is currently spending
'reading'. I'm completely convinced that she believes that reading is
all about memorising books, and that the reason I can read all sorts
of printed material is that I've memorised many more than she has. She
has, in fact, only memorised a few; but we've both managed to memorise
_The Enormous Turnip_, in my case rather by accident. And they pulled,
and they pulled, but they couldn't pull it up.
--
Alison Scott ali...@kittywompus.com & www.kittywompus.com
Kittywompus Tracks Fanzines -- at www.kittywompus.com/fanzines/reviews/
Rob Hansen
>Though I love meeting the casts from assorted science fiction TV shows,
>I'd also like to meet the authors from audiobooks/comics that probably
>should become TV episodes. That's the main reason why I plan to attend
>WorldCon. I want to meet the author of the PHANTOM MENACE sequel, Greg
>Bear.
I should think so. After years of toiling in obscurity, it's great
that Greg has written what is sure to be his breakthrough novel and
that people should now start noticing him. Well done, Greg!
Doug Wickstrom
>I'd initially shared information regarding that Slanted Fedora
>convention in this newsgroup because Claudia, who'd never appeared in
Claudia who?
Never mind, I don't care, and I won't see your response, anyway.
>any STAR TREK shows or films, was there. I didn't expect to get such a
>negative reaction from some people. Finally, I hope that some
>additional authors within this newsgroup will take the time to
>proofread their messages for misspelled words before they'll condemn
>others for getting off topic.
"Additional authors within this newsgroup"? Spelling flames in
response to complaints about off-topic posting?
My dear sir, there is nothing off-topic here, except by
consensus. You seem to have triggered a fairly insistent
consensus that we don't especially care about commercial
conventions with paid actors as guests. Nobody has twitted you
for being off-topic, you are being ragged on for being boring and
posting the sorts of things that are better said elsewhere,
somewhere, anywhere you are more likely to find someone who
cares. IOW, you haven't been paying attention to what we do
here. This is rude. Not sinful, necessarily, but rude.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have fanac to commit.
<Plonk!>
--
Doug Wickstrom
Well, Art is Art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water!
And East is East and West is West and if you take cranberries and stew
them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does.
Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know. --Groucho Marx
Elisabeth Carey
Cats can see color; they just don't think it's important, most of the
time. They use that capacity for grey-scale definition, which they do
think is important, being nocturnal hunters.
OTOH, one of my cats, Aquavit, has a distinct preference for pink
things.
Jo Walton
ali...@kittywompus.com "Alison Scott" writes:
> J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk (Jo Walton) wrote:
>
> >In article <8md8be$qji$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> ek...@cyberdude.com "ERIC" writes:
> >
> >> Though I love meeting the casts from assorted science fiction TV shows,
> >> I'd also like to meet the authors from audiobooks/comics that probably
> >> should become TV episodes.
> >
> >That is such an amazing sentence.
> >
> >I think this person is not on the same planet I am on.
>
> You know, I think he's the person from one of the futures they told us
> about when I was small. Remember the one where nobody learnt to read
> and got all their entertainment through TV, and, um, audiobooks and
> comics?
Yes. I knew it reminded me of something, and it's the beginning of
:The Ophiuchi Hotline:.
Way worse than food pills.
> Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be a particularly common future, at
> least not given the amount of time that Marianne is currently spending
> 'reading'. I'm completely convinced that she believes that reading is
> all about memorising books, and that the reason I can read all sorts
> of printed material is that I've memorised many more than she has. She
> has, in fact, only memorised a few; but we've both managed to memorise
> _The Enormous Turnip_, in my case rather by accident. And they pulled,
> and they pulled, but they couldn't pull it up.
I remember that stage. I can still recite :Can't You Sleep Little Bear:
and the sequel. Also :Waiting For the Thursday Boat:, :The Elephant Tree:
and :We're Going On A Bear Hunt: - the phrase "We can't go over it, we
can't go under it, oh no, we're going to have to go _through_ it!" is
still in common use on long walks.
But at the moment Sasha is reading :Chanur's Venture:, and he's loving it.
He disputes my authority on pronounciation of kif names and won't take my
sig as evidence. It's so wonderful to have a child who wants to read Cherryh
and is enjoying it.
I expect Marianne will get there sooner than you think.
--
Jo - - I kissed a kif at Kefk - - J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk - UPDATED Interstichia; Poetry; RASFW FAQ;
THE KING'S PEACE, Tor Books, October 2000 - can be ordered now from Amazon
sample chapters on http://www.tor.com/sampleKingsPeace.html
John Boston
>
> John Boston wrote:
[snip]
> > Cue thread on color vision or lack of it in cats, right?
>
> Cats can see color; they just don't think it's important, most of the
> time. They use that capacity for grey-scale definition, which they do
> think is important, being nocturnal hunters.
>
> OTOH, one of my cats, Aquavit, has a distinct preference for pink
> things.
For what? To eat, to claw, to sit on, or to carry around and
leave on your pillow or in your shoes?
John Boston
Kip Williams
> > Cue thread on color vision or lack of it in cats, right?
>
> Cats can see color; they just don't think it's important, most of the
> time. They use that capacity for grey-scale definition, which they do
> think is important, being nocturnal hunters.
A TV special I watched showed some bits in "Cat vision." Most of the
world looks greyish, gaining color as it comes closer to the cat.
Things that move look brighter than things that don't move; except
for small, flat cans, which appear to wave red flags and whistle
loudly while smelling just like chicken.
Nancy Lebovitz
Doug Wickstrom <nims...@uswest.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 18:28:44 GMT, ERIC <ek...@cyberdude.com>
>excited the ether to say:
>
>>I'd initially shared information regarding that Slanted Fedora
>>convention in this newsgroup because Claudia, who'd never appeared in
>
>Claudia who?
>
>Never mind, I don't care, and I won't see your response, anyway.
>
>
>My dear sir, there is nothing off-topic here, except by
>consensus. You seem to have triggered a fairly insistent
>consensus that we don't especially care about commercial
>conventions with paid actors as guests. Nobody has twitted you
>for being off-topic, you are being ragged on for being boring and
>posting the sorts of things that are better said elsewhere,
>somewhere, anywhere you are more likely to find someone who
>cares. IOW, you haven't been paying attention to what we do
>here. This is rude. Not sinful, necessarily, but rude.
So is asking someone about something they care about, and then saying
you won't listen to the answer.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
The calligraphic button website is up!
Buttons at Pennsic: S&M Leather (Booth 119), Plunder Lane
Nancy Lebovitz
Laura Haywood-Cory <lgha...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
>Steve Miller <s...@korval.com> wrote:
>
>> You're in the wrong place. Trust us.
>
>As one of the people who sorta got this thread rolling (sorry 'bout that
>first cross-post), I'd like to point out that perhaps saying "We don't
>want your kind in here" maybe isn't the best way to entice Star trek fans
>into what's referred to here as more traditional fandom. Of course, if you
>don't want to entice new fans here, feel free to ignore me--seriously. I
>know some folks don't think it's the job of fandom to bring in new fans.
>
Thank you. I'd been trying to figure out what civil things needed to
be said, and hadn't quite put a finger on them yet.
I'll add that I wouldn't mind a detailed discussion of horrible for-
profit media conventions--I've been to some of them in a fairly
unsuccessful effort to make money, and can still be amused by the
topic. However, I'll grant that most rasffers might not share my
interest. (But, but, what about the Dimension Convention in the
Ethical Culture Society building with no loading dock and the kids had to
be chased away from their hockey game in the gym so that there could
be a dealer's room and the guests were so angry with the committee
that they went on strike and wouldn't do the cabaret?)
Nancy Lebovitz
Elisabeth Carey <lis....@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
>It sounds nothing like a fan-run convention. You appear to be
>complaining about incompetence in the execution of what they were
>doing. Either pro or fan organizations can be either competent or
>incompetent. The kinds of concerns you're talking about have little to
>with fan-run conventions, including fan-run media conventions,
>although there'd be a slightly greater overlap there, as they do have
>to pay their guests, and those guests aren't part of the fannish
>community.
>
>Typical concerns at a fan-run convention: Was the programming good?
>How late did the programming run? Were there good parties at night? If
>the convention has an art show, was it a good one? Was there an
>acceptable range of restaurants within a reasonable distance? Was the
>consuite a comfortable, pleasant place to be? Was registration
>well-organized? Was the hotel clean and comfortable, and reasonably
>hospitable to the needs of fans, which differ somewhat from the needs
>of business conventions? WERE MY FRIENDS THERE?
>
Still, professionally run media conventions are part of this ever-
changing and insanely detailed world, and it sometimes it seems as
though that could be enough to qualify them as potential rasff topics
if they were addressed with a sufficiently fannish attitude.
On the other hand, it could be that I'm simply more interested in
prmc's (for purely spiteful reasons) than in British tv shows or
roundabouts....yea, even than in watching a British tv show *while*
navigating a roundabout *and* figureing out the exact differences
between naff, twee, and kitsch at the same time.
Still, it may be that you folks have more experience of what complaints
about prmc's are like, and perhaps such complaints are more likely to
be interations of "I didn't get what I wanted" rather than adequate
descriptions of the workings and effects of such conventions.
Meanwhile, ERIC, have you read Diane Duane's _Spock's World_? What
did you think of it? Did you know that Duane's written quite a bit
of excellent non-media fantasy?
Loren MacGregor
Once upon a midnight dreary....
The shades of night were falling fast....
There are strange things done in the midnight sun....
O! Captain, my Captain, our fearful trip is done....
To think that I saw it on Mulberry Street....
The doorknob winked at him....
... to name just a few. They just stick and stick and nothing can
pry them out. When Lauryn and I have children, I'm going to drain
my memory into theirs and have done with it.
-- LJM
Marilee J. Layman
<lis....@mediaone.net> wrote:
>John Boston wrote:
>>
>> In article <398A93BE...@mediaone.net>, lis....@mediaone.net says...
>> >
>> >P Nielsen Hayden wrote:
>> >
>> ><snip>
>> >
>> [snip]
>> >
>> >I am green with envy.
>> >
>> >My cats will be very confused when they notice.
>>
>> Cue thread on color vision or lack of it in cats, right?
>
>Cats can see color; they just don't think it's important, most of the
>time. They use that capacity for grey-scale definition, which they do
>think is important, being nocturnal hunters.
>
>OTOH, one of my cats, Aquavit, has a distinct preference for pink
>things.
Spirit is a magpie, she likes shiny things. Since I'm selling silver
beads, I have to keep them all put away, or they'll end up in my bed.
--
Marilee J. Layman The Other*Worlds*Cafe
HOSTE...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group.
AOL Keyword: OWC http://www.webmoose.com/owc
Tom Galloway
Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <n92mos0kfs2vcomup...@4ax.com>
> ali...@kittywompus.com "Alison Scott" writes:
>> Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be a particularly common future, at
>> least not given the amount of time that Marianne is currently spending
>> 'reading'. I'm completely convinced that she believes that reading is
>> all about memorising books, and that the reason I can read all sorts
>> of printed material is that I've memorised many more than she has. She
>and the sequel. Also :Waiting For the Thursday Boat:, :The Elephant Tree:
Apparently I also went through a memorization stage; the way my parents
realized I'd taught myself to read was that one day I started reading
something in a newspaper to them. I'm told they looked at each other, each
asked if the other had previously read that to me, and when it turned out
neither had, tested me on some other new stuff, which I proceeded to read
to them.
This led to my mother getting a somewhat frantic phone call from my pre-school
a few weeks later that apparently went something like;
"Did you know Tommy can read?!"
"Yes, he's been reading for at least a few weeks now. Why?"
"We pinned progress reports to the children's shirts for them to take home,
and he's read all of them to the children!" [mental image of toddler me
stumbling over "dis-rup-tive be-hav-ior" :-)]
Suddenly, envelopes became very popular among the teachers at that pre-school.
tyg t...@netcom.com
Thomas Womack
> But at the moment Sasha is reading :Chanur's Venture:, and he's loving it.
> He disputes my authority on pronounciation of kif names and won't take my
> sig as evidence.
Ooh! There are other books with kif in?
I found _Pride of Chanur_ for eighty Dutch cents in a second-hand furniture
shop in Amsterdam, and was most impressed by the knnn and the kif and the
hani; what should I look for next? (at thirty times the price, probably,
once Amazon has taken its bite ...)
Tom
Rob Hansen
wrote:
>On the other hand, it could be that I'm simply more interested in
>prmc's (for purely spiteful reasons) than in British tv shows or
>roundabouts....yea, even than in watching a British tv show *while*
>navigating a roundabout *and* figureing out the exact differences
>between naff, twee, and kitsch at the same time.
If you just kill-file all the British posters to this international
newsgroup you need never be troubled by such discussions again.
Elisabeth Carey
The Chanur trilogy is _The Pride of Chanur_, _Chanur's Venture_, and
_The Kif Strike Back_. These three are now available in an omnibus
edition, _The Chanur Saga_. There's also _Chanur's Homecoming_, and
_Chanur's Legacy, which are apparently currently out of print.
Elisabeth Carey
>
> Elisabeth Carey wrote:
> >
> > John Boston wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > Cats can see color; they just don't think it's important, most of the
> > time. They use that capacity for grey-scale definition, which they do
> > think is important, being nocturnal hunters.
> >
> > OTOH, one of my cats, Aquavit, has a distinct preference for pink
> > things.
>
> leave on your pillow or in your shoes?
To play with. If it's pink, it must be one of her toys, and she'll bat
it around, claw at it, cuddle up with it. I try not to bring pink
things into the house, or if I must bring them in, I try not to leave
them unattended, unless I don't mind her playing with it.
Paula Lieberman
news:398C992B...@mediaone.net...
> Thomas Womack wrote:
> >
> > "Jo Walton" <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote
> >
> > > But at the moment Sasha is reading :Chanur's Venture:, and he's loving
it.
> > > He disputes my authority on pronounciation of kif names and won't take
my
> > > sig as evidence.
> >
> > Ooh! There are other books with kif in?
> >
> > I found _Pride of Chanur_ for eighty Dutch cents in a second-hand
furniture
> > shop in Amsterdam, and was most impressed by the knnn and the kif and
the
> > hani; what should I look for next? (at thirty times the price, probably,
> > once Amazon has taken its bite ...)
>
> The Chanur trilogy is _The Pride of Chanur_, _Chanur's Venture_, and
> _The Kif Strike Back_. These three are now available in an omnibus
> edition, _The Chanur Saga_. There's also _Chanur's Homecoming_, and
> _Chanur's Legacy, which are apparently currently out of print.
I thought that first -four- were in the omnibus volume -- Pyanfar Chanur is
the lead character in the first four books. The fifth book, Chanur's
Legacy, has four characters who appear in the earlier books -- one is a
major character in all four of the earlier books, two of them have recurring
roles in the earlier books, and one of them have a walk-on bit role in one
of the earlier books. Some of the characters from earlier books show up in
one of the character's dreams.
Paula Lieberman
Elisabeth Carey
<snip>
> Still, professionally run media conventions are part of this ever-
> changing and insanely detailed world, and it sometimes it seems as
> though that could be enough to qualify them as potential rasff topics
> if they were addressed with a sufficiently fannish attitude.
>
> On the other hand, it could be that I'm simply more interested in
> prmc's (for purely spiteful reasons) than in British tv shows or
> roundabouts....yea, even than in watching a British tv show *while*
> navigating a roundabout *and* figureing out the exact differences
> between naff, twee, and kitsch at the same time.
Those other things are ontopic here because so many people here _are_
interested. Even when any particular thread on any of those topics
goes on longer than is interesting for me, I just move on to something
else, without feeling that some total stranger has come barging in,
interrupting the conversation I was in, and demanding that I pay close
attention to something that's of no interest to me.
I can't help but notice that, while several regular posters have
objected that the way in which some of us have been voicing our
objections to this thread is rude, and unproductive of better
relations with media fans, there haven't been any regular rasff
posters joining in discussion of the details of the ERIC's complaints
about Slanted Fedora. I believe that's because I'm not alone, and this
really isn't of much interest to most of the people here. ERIC just
made a mistake in including rasff in the crossposting, and ought
perhaps to have been a bit more receptive to that information.
> Still, it may be that you folks have more experience of what complaints
> about prmc's are like, and perhaps such complaints are more likely to
> be interations of "I didn't get what I wanted" rather than adequate
> descriptions of the workings and effects of such conventions.
"I didn't get what I thought I was paying for" is, in fact, a
perfectly reasonable complaint to have about one of the for-profit
shows. They are for-profit operations, they do make promises about
what they're delivering in exchange for the price of a ticket, and a
failure to live up to those promises is something to be criticized and
complained about. This just isn't the right newsgroup for it, and
newsgroups where a larger percentage of the posters attend and are
interested in them are more appropriate. ERIC just made a mistake in
assuming that because this newsgroup has "fandom" in its name, the
people here would have an interest in this type of show--and a further
mistake in resisting the information that no, on the whole, we don't.
A description of the workings of such a show is perhaps not reasonable
to expect, because the fans attending them _aren't_ running them;
they're run by paid staff. A description of the effects? On who or
what? I think ERIC, with his peripheral awareness of fannish
conventions, is no more seriously interested in the pro shows' impact
on fannish conventions than most rasffers are interested in the pro
shows. He's discussing the aspect that interests him: how well they do
what they say they're going to do. A meaningful discussion of the
effects of the pro shows would surely have to involve at least a few
people who are interested in and knowledgable about both pro and
fannish events. Laura Haywood-Cory would seem to be one such person,
and I think we have a few others, and that might be an interesting
discussion. I'm really not interested in Slanted Fedora's shortcomings
as such, though, and complaints about long threads on British tv
shows, and roundabouts, aren't likely to encourage me to be.
>
> Meanwhile, ERIC, have you read Diane Duane's _Spock's World_? What
> did you think of it? Did you know that Duane's written quite a bit
> of excellent non-media fantasy?
<snip>
Vicki Rosenzweig
>
>I'd initially shared information regarding that Slanted Fedora
>convention in this newsgroup because Claudia, who'd never appeared in
>any STAR TREK shows or films, was there. I didn't expect to get such a
>negative reaction from some people. Finally, I hope that some
>additional authors within this newsgroup will take the time to
>proofread their messages for misspelled words before they'll condemn
>others for getting off topic.
>
This post has been proofread. In return, I'll ask you to preserve
attributions on the material you quote.
--
Copyright 2000 Vicki Rosenzweig. Permission to insert links when
displaying is available for $100 per link. Use in this fashion
constitutes acceptance of these terms. v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
Ed Dravecky III
> ERIC <ek...@cyberdude.com> excited the ether to say:
> > convention in this newsgroup because Claudia, who'd never appeared
>
> Never mind, I don't care, and I won't see your response, anyway.
For those who are curious, I've been reading all of this and can
safely state that Eric means Claudia Christian, of "Babylon 5"
and "The Hidden" fame (and "A Gnome Named Gnorm" infamy).
I'd have plonked this ekatz twit but this newsfeed goes away for
me in a week or so. I'll have to remember to plonk him on Panix.
--
My dshe...@netcom.com address will be shut down on 9/30.
Please send all future mail to (ed3 at panix dot com) and
update your address books accordingly. (Thanks.)
Elisabeth Carey
Your argument in favor of the logic of the omnibus being the first
four books is impeccable, but in fact, it's just the first three. I
checked Amazon before sending that post.
--
Lis Carey
This post is copyright 2000 by Elisabeth Carey. Permission to
insert links when displaying it is available for $100. Use in
mike weber
<mjla...@erols.com> typed
>Spirit is a magpie, she likes shiny things. Since I'm selling silver
>beads, I have to keep them all put away, or they'll end up in my bed.
>
The Dummie thought that the rings from gallon milk bottles were the
nuts. (Also elastic hair-tie loops)
He'd grab one and play with it for hours, then carry it and carefully
put it in his food dish with the dry crunchies so he'd know where it
was.
Except he never went back for the ones he put there -- we gave them to
him when we opened milk bottles becuase we knew he liked them, so he
just played with the fresh one each time, and when he got tired of
it...
Every week or two it became necessary to rake out the rings and
dispose of them before refilling the bowl.
--
"It's not what you don't know that can hurt you -- it's the things that
you do know that AREN'T true..." ("The Notebooks of Lazarus Long"?)
================================================================
mike weber kras...@mindspring.com
half complete website of Xeno--http://weberworld.virtualave.net
Marilee J. Layman
>On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 10:11:42 GMT, Elisabeth Carey
><lis....@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
>>John Boston wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <398A93BE...@mediaone.net>, lis....@mediaone.net says...
>>> >
>>> >P Nielsen Hayden wrote:
>>> >
>>> ><snip>
>>> >
>>> [snip]
>>> >
>>> >I am green with envy.
>>> >
>>> >My cats will be very confused when they notice.
>>>
>>> Cue thread on color vision or lack of it in cats, right?
>>
>>Cats can see color; they just don't think it's important, most of the
>>time. They use that capacity for grey-scale definition, which they do
>>think is important, being nocturnal hunters.
>>
>>OTOH, one of my cats, Aquavit, has a distinct preference for pink
>>things.
>
>Spirit is a magpie, she likes shiny things. Since I'm selling silver
>beads, I have to keep them all put away, or they'll end up in my bed.
If I'd remembered this post, I would have posted here about her
emergency surgery instead of up on the Do Cats Go to Heaven thread.
<sigh>
Paula Lieberman
news:8mic7r$sjb$2...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
> Doug Wickstrom (nims...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
> > ERIC <ek...@cyberdude.com> excited the ether to say:
> > > I'd initially shared information regarding that Slanted Fedora
> > > convention in this newsgroup because Claudia, who'd never appeared
> >
> > Claudia who?
> > Never mind, I don't care, and I won't see your response, anyway.
>
> For those who are curious, I've been reading all of this and can
> safely state that Eric means Claudia Christian, of "Babylon 5"
The respondent was probably quite aware of that, and not impressed, and was
being sarcastic. I think I can safely say that most of the people here
realized that the reference was to the former Babylon 5 cast member.
Some of what bothers me about the gate shows and even volunteer-run media
conventions, is that most of the people going to them aren't seeing the film
and TV cast members as real people with contemporary lives, the
pay-their-admissions-fees-and-sit-in-the-program-and-stand-in-line-for-autog
raphs people are instead there for -performances- reprising the fictional
characters' roles and lives. They're into something like a cult of
personality, but the cult of personality is for the fictional character
role, not the people who were playing the roles of the fictional characters.
_Galaxy Quest_ may or may not win the Hugo for Best Dramatic Presentation
this year -- part of what got it on the ballot, was its mostly sensitive and
throughtful and Got It portrayal of media fandom, and of the relationships
between the former cast members, and media fans, and of media conventions
and gate shows and such. Other parts of what got it on the ballot were the
rest of the plot, and the echoes of Star Trek and the way it became a
cultural icon, and the -real- homage being paid in the film.
Ed Dravecky III
> The respondent was probably quite aware of that, and not impressed,
> and was being sarcastic. I think I can safely say that most of the
> people here realized that the reference was to the former Babylon 5
> cast member.
In my many years in RASFF I've learned several things:
1) Never assume that a person asking a question knows the answer
already and asked it as a rhetorical device.
2) No matter how many years you've been online, somebody else will
assume that your sarcasm sequencer is damaged or missing. This
appears to the Only British People Understand Irony meme.
3) An hour or so with a clear picture of PNH in Picture Publisher
can yield amusing results vis a vis a sombrero and flippers.
--
Ed Dravecky III : Today's agenda: Tug on Superman's cape, spit into
(ed3 at panix.com) : wind, pull mask off Lone Ranger, mess with Jim.
Doug Wickstrom
<paal@REMOVE_gis.net> excited the ether to say:
>Ed Dravecky III <dshe...@netcom6.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:8mic7r$sjb$2...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
>> Doug Wickstrom (nims...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
>> > ERIC <ek...@cyberdude.com> excited the ether to say:
>> > > I'd initially shared information regarding that Slanted Fedora
>> > > convention in this newsgroup because Claudia, who'd never appeared
>> >
>> > Claudia who?
>> > Never mind, I don't care, and I won't see your response, anyway.
>>
>> For those who are curious, I've been reading all of this and can
>> safely state that Eric means Claudia Christian, of "Babylon 5"
>
>The respondent was probably quite aware of that, and not impressed, and was
>being sarcastic. I think I can safely say that most of the people here
>realized that the reference was to the former Babylon 5 cast member.
No, the respondent really didn't know, and really didn't care.
The respondent has never seen a single episode of "Babylon 5,"
and doesn't care to. The respondent, while owning a television
set, hasn't had it plugged in more than three months, and works
second shift anyway, and when the respondent does sometimes catch
a television program, prefers not to watch science fiction. The
respondent does like televised fantasy, and was enthralled by
G.W. Bush's acceptance speech, which he watched at work during a
fit of boredom.
--
Doug Wickstrom
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the
country." --Marion Barry
Jo Walton
t...@womack.net "Thomas Womack" writes:
> "Jo Walton" <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote
>
> > But at the moment Sasha is reading :Chanur's Venture:, and he's loving it.
> > He disputes my authority on pronounciation of kif names and won't take my
> > sig as evidence.
>
> Ooh! There are other books with kif in?
>
> I found _Pride of Chanur_ for eighty Dutch cents in a second-hand furniture
> shop in Amsterdam, and was most impressed by the knnn and the kif and the
> hani; what should I look for next? (at thirty times the price, probably,
> once Amazon has taken its bite ...)
There's :Chanur's Venture:, :The Kif Strike Back: and :Chanur's Homecoming:,
which are three volumes but all one book, do not read unless you have all
three there. They had British editions (Methuen, with vile covers) and US
editions (Daw, with Michael Whelan covers) either should be fairly available
second hand.
Then there's :Chanur's Legacy:, which is a sequel, which was never published
in Britain and is fairly unlikely to be. This you'll have to get from the
US.
Are you going to Lexicon?
Jo Walton
lis....@mediaone.net "Elisabeth Carey" writes:
> Paula Lieberman wrote:
> >
> > Elisabeth Carey <lis....@mediaone.net> wrote in message
> > news:398C992B...@mediaone.net...
> > > The Chanur trilogy is _The Pride of Chanur_, _Chanur's Venture_, and
> > > _The Kif Strike Back_. These three are now available in an omnibus
> > > edition, _The Chanur Saga_. There's also _Chanur's Homecoming_, and
> > > _Chanur's Legacy, which are apparently currently out of print.
> >
> > I thought that first -four- were in the omnibus volume -- Pyanfar Chanur is
> > the lead character in the first four books. The fifth book, Chanur's
> > Legacy, has four characters who appear in the earlier books -- one is a
> > major character in all four of the earlier books, two of them have recurring
> > roles in the earlier books, and one of them have a walk-on bit role in one
> > of the earlier books. Some of the characters from earlier books show up in
> > one of the character's dreams.
>
> Your argument in favor of the logic of the omnibus being the first
> four books is impeccable, but in fact, it's just the first three. I
> checked Amazon before sending that post.
Whoever made that decision should be stranded on Kshshti.
That's ridiculous.
That's _cruel_.
:The Kif Strike Back: doesn't even an end, it doesn't even have a pause,
there's just two extra thick pieces of paper between the volumes, as
Andrew@erkyrath said about the first two Secret Country books.
What sort of reading experience is that going to give people?
Gah.
Jo Walton
r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk "Rob Hansen" writes:
> On 5 Aug 2000 17:04:58 GMT, na...@unix3.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz)
> wrote:
>
> >On the other hand, it could be that I'm simply more interested in
> >prmc's (for purely spiteful reasons) than in British tv shows or
> >roundabouts....yea, even than in watching a British tv show *while*
> >navigating a roundabout *and* figureing out the exact differences
> >between naff, twee, and kitsch at the same time.
>
> If you just kill-file all the British posters to this international
> newsgroup you need never be troubled by such discussions again.
She needn't bother killfiling me if she wants to avoid discussion
of TV. And IIRC at least Beth was also talking about it.
Nancy Lebovitz
Paula Lieberman <paal@REMOVE_gis.net> wrote:
>
>Some of what bothers me about the gate shows and even volunteer-run media
>conventions, is that most of the people going to them aren't seeing the film
>and TV cast members as real people with contemporary lives, the
>pay-their-admissions-fees-and-sit-in-the-program-and-stand-in-line-for-autog
>raphs people are instead there for -performances- reprising the fictional
>characters' roles and lives. They're into something like a cult of
>personality, but the cult of personality is for the fictional character
>role, not the people who were playing the roles of the fictional characters.
In my limited experience of talking with media fen, they're acutely aware
of the guests not being the characters they play. They may not be kind
or sensible about the fact that the guests are current humans, but they
know it.
>
>_Galaxy Quest_ may or may not win the Hugo for Best Dramatic Presentation
>this year -- part of what got it on the ballot, was its mostly sensitive and
>throughtful and Got It portrayal of media fandom, and of the relationships
>between the former cast members, and media fans, and of media conventions
>and gate shows and such. Other parts of what got it on the ballot were the
>rest of the plot, and the echoes of Star Trek and the way it became a
>cultural icon, and the -real- homage being paid in the film.
>
I think _Galaxy Quest_ also had the advantage of portraying the desire
for it all to be true--and it's not just media fen who feel that way.
Nancy Lebovitz
Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <di2pos0vef2a205rg...@4ax.com>
> r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk "Rob Hansen" writes:
>
>> On 5 Aug 2000 17:04:58 GMT, na...@unix3.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On the other hand, it could be that I'm simply more interested in
>> >prmc's (for purely spiteful reasons) than in British tv shows or
>> >roundabouts....yea, even than in watching a British tv show *while*
>> >navigating a roundabout *and* figureing out the exact differences
>> >between naff, twee, and kitsch at the same time.
>>
>> If you just kill-file all the British posters to this international
>> newsgroup you need never be troubled by such discussions again.
Not really--there seem to be American posters who are at least as fascinated
by those sorts of things.
I'm sorry if it looked as though I was indulging in anti-British sentiment--
the topics I listed were just those that I thought of off-hand, and that
meant they were ones I was interested enough in to read the first 100
or so posts and then give up.
I can get bored by American politics and Jewish minutia, too, ok?
Cats, however, are much more reliably interesting.
>She needn't bother killfiling me if she wants to avoid discussion
>of TV. And IIRC at least Beth was also talking about it.
There was a bit of slippage in phrasing involved, in any case. I don't
think rotaries are any more interesting than roundabouts, and honestly
didn't remember which term was British and which was American.
Alison Hopkins
Nancy Lebovitz wrote in message <8mjdkr$2...@netaxs.com>...
[...]
>I'm sorry if it looked as though I was indulging in anti-British
sentiment--
>the topics I listed were just those that I thought of off-hand, and that
>meant they were ones I was interested enough in to read the first 100
>or so posts and then give up.
FWIW, I didn't take it as anti-anything. As you say, some topics are of
personal interest to the extent that I follow the thread avidly, and others
not.
Ali
Alison Hopkins
Nancy Lebovitz wrote in message <8mjd1l$m...@netaxs.com>...
>In article <soq2ls...@corp.supernews.com>,
>Paula Lieberman <paal@REMOVE_gis.net> wrote:
>>
>>Some of what bothers me about the gate shows and even volunteer-run media
>>conventions, is that most of the people going to them aren't seeing the
film
>>and TV cast members as real people with contemporary lives, the
>>pay-their-admissions-fees-and-sit-in-the-program-and-stand-in-line-for-aut
og
>>raphs people are instead there for -performances- reprising the fictional
>>characters' roles and lives. They're into something like a cult of
>>personality, but the cult of personality is for the fictional character
>>role, not the people who were playing the roles of the fictional
characters.
More common in the commercial cons, imo. At least, that's based on my
experience of UK con running.
>
>In my limited experience of talking with media fen, they're acutely aware
>of the guests not being the characters they play. They may not be kind
>or sensible about the fact that the guests are current humans, but they
>know it.
Oh, yes. And if you've been backstage with some of the guests, you also get
to know that their *humanity* may be variable. But, mostly, actor guests are
hardworking, professional, and treat cons as a "proper job", so to speak. In
my experience, most of the questions they are asked from the audience have
absolutely *nothing* to do with the show that they may be famous for,
either. I can recall one actor getting in to a very in depth argument about
his portrayal of some Ibsen character or other.
>>
>>_Galaxy Quest_ may or may not win the Hugo for Best Dramatic Presentation
>>this year -- part of what got it on the ballot, was its mostly sensitive
and
>>throughtful and Got It portrayal of media fandom, and of the relationships
>>between the former cast members, and media fans, and of media conventions
>>and gate shows and such. Other parts of what got it on the ballot were
the
>>rest of the plot, and the echoes of Star Trek and the way it became a
>>cultural icon, and the -real- homage being paid in the film.
>>
>I think _Galaxy Quest_ also had the advantage of portraying the desire
>for it all to be true--and it's not just media fen who feel that way.
>
Absolutely. I *loved* Galxy Quest - it was delightfully obvious that the
writers had done their research, and actually liked Trek. But they weren't
pussy footing, either.
Ali
Ali
Del Cotter
Elisabeth Carey <lis....@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Thomas Womack wrote:
>> I found _Pride of Chanur_ for eighty Dutch cents in a second-hand furniture
>> shop in Amsterdam, and was most impressed by the knnn and the kif and the
>> hani; what should I look for next? (at thirty times the price, probably,
>> once Amazon has taken its bite ...)
>
>The Chanur trilogy is _The Pride of Chanur_, _Chanur's Venture_, and
>_The Kif Strike Back_. These three are now available in an omnibus
>edition, _The Chanur Saga_. There's also _Chanur's Homecoming_, and
>_Chanur's Legacy, which are apparently currently out of print.
Thought that was:
_The Pride of Chanur_ standalone
_Chanur's Venture_
_The Kif Strike Back_ trilogy
_Chanur's Homecoming_
_Chanur's Legacy_ standalone
_Chanur's Legacy_ never had a UK edition, wah.
--
. . . . Del Cotter d...@branta.demon.co.uk . . . .
JustRead:edDays:ColinGreenlandTakeBackPlenty:JonathanRabanBadLand:EricIdleTh
eRoadToMars:JohnBarnesApocalypses&Apostrophes:MichaelConeyHelloSummerGoodbye
ToRead:WalterMMillerJrStLeibowitz&TWHW:IainBanksWhit:DorothyDunnettTheGameOf
Max
kras...@mindspring.com (mike weber) said:
>The Dummie thought that the rings from gallon milk bottles were the
>nuts.
I've seen a lot of cats act that way over those. I'm not sure what the
attraction is.
--
Some scribblings:
http://www.themestream.com/gspd_browse/author/view_author_info.gsp?auth_id=76824
Fredrik Oljemark
>
<SNIP>
> > > Elisabeth Carey <lis....@mediaone.net> wrote in message
> > > news:398C992B...@mediaone.net...
>
> > > > _The Kif Strike Back_. These three are now available in an omnibus
> > > > edition, _The Chanur Saga_. There's also _Chanur's Homecoming_, and
> > > > _Chanur's Legacy, which are apparently currently out of print.
> > >
<SNIP>
>
> Whoever made that decision should be stranded on Kshshti.
>
> That's ridiculous.
>
> That's _cruel_.
>
> :The Kif Strike Back: doesn't even an end, it doesn't even have a pause,
> there's just two extra thick pieces of paper between the volumes, as
> Andrew@erkyrath said about the first two Secret Country books.
>
> What sort of reading experience is that going to give people?
>
> Gah.
Well, it wasn't all that bad when I bought the omnibus edition here in
Finland three months ago, because the bookstore also had a few copies
of Chanur's Homecoming. It's the last volume of the series that seems
to be very hard to find here.
Fredrik
Laura Haywood-Cory
> In my limited experience of talking with media fen, they're acutely aware
> of the guests not being the characters they play. They may not be kind
> or sensible about the fact that the guests are current humans, but they
> know it.
Gamers have a similar problem; the media's past hysteria has convinced
some people that gamers get so into the games that we don't know ourselves
from our characters. :)
> I think _Galaxy Quest_ also had the advantage of portraying the desire
> for it all to be true--and it's not just media fen who feel that way.
I agree. Heck, even my dad, who doesn't read much if any sf, wants it to
be true. He says his one regret is that he probably won't live long enough
to see the human race make contact with a sentient alien species.
Laura
--
Laura Haywood-Cory
Research Triangle SF Society - http://www.rtsfs.org
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill - monthly sf meetings
Trinoc-coN - http://www.trinoc-con.org
the Triangle's sf conference, 9/29-10/1/2000
Vicki Rosenzweig
00:41:31 GMT:
>Doug Wickstrom (nims...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
>> ERIC <ek...@cyberdude.com> excited the ether to say:
>> > I'd initially shared information regarding that Slanted Fedora
>> > convention in this newsgroup because Claudia, who'd never appeared
>>
>> Claudia who?
>> Never mind, I don't care, and I won't see your response, anyway.
>
>For those who are curious, I've been reading all of this and can
>safely state that Eric means Claudia Christian, of "Babylon 5"
>and "The Hidden" fame (and "A Gnome Named Gnorm" infamy).
>
>I'd have plonked this ekatz twit but this newsfeed goes away for
>me in a week or so. I'll have to remember to plonk him on Panix.
What's your software? Agent seems to have maintained my killfiles
as well as my list of subscribed groups when I moved from Interport
to Panix (though I did have to "sample" messages in groups that I
had marked read before the move). If it's a shell-based newsreader,
can you save the .[program]rc file?
P Nielsen Hayden
Vicki Rosenzweig <v...@redbird.org> wrote:
>Quoth Ed Dravecky III <dshe...@netcom6.netcom.com> on 6 Aug 2000
>00:41:31 GMT:
>
>>Doug Wickstrom (nims...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
>>> ERIC <ek...@cyberdude.com> excited the ether to say:
>>> > I'd initially shared information regarding that Slanted Fedora
>>> > convention in this newsgroup because Claudia, who'd never appeared
>>>
>>> Claudia who?
>>> Never mind, I don't care, and I won't see your response, anyway.
>>
>>For those who are curious, I've been reading all of this and can
>>safely state that Eric means Claudia Christian, of "Babylon 5"
>>and "The Hidden" fame (and "A Gnome Named Gnorm" infamy).
>>
>>I'd have plonked this ekatz twit but this newsfeed goes away for
>>me in a week or so. I'll have to remember to plonk him on Panix.
>
>What's your software? Agent seems to have maintained my killfiles
>as well as my list of subscribed groups when I moved from Interport
>to Panix (though I did have to "sample" messages in groups that I
>had marked read before the move). If it's a shell-based newsreader,
>can you save the .[program]rc file?
.*rc files don't generally contain killfile information, just a record of
which messages have been marked as read and which haven't. And they're
generally not portable, because each server's news spool enumerates messages
differently.
--
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
Cally Soukup
> In my many years in RASFF I've learned several things:
> 3) An hour or so with a clear picture of PNH in Picture Publisher
> can yield amusing results vis a vis a sombrero and flippers.
URL?
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Doug Berry
Max <m...@hawkida.com>, wrote thusly:
>In message ID (<398ce2bf...@news.mindspring.com>)
>kras...@mindspring.com (mike weber) said:
>
>>The Dummie thought that the rings from gallon milk bottles were the
>>nuts.
>
>I've seen a lot of cats act that way over those. I'm not sure what the
>attraction is.
Well, they smell a little of milk.. and they roll and bounce in
odd ways when batted across the floor.
--
Douglas E. Berry grid...@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Loren MacGregor
>
> There's :Chanur's Venture:, :The Kif Strike Back: and :Chanur's Homecoming:,
> which are three volumes but all one book, do not read unless you have all
> three there. They had British editions (Methuen, with vile covers) and US
> editions (Daw, with Michael Whelan covers) either should be fairly available
> second hand.
Which reminds me of the time I pointed out what I thought was
completely obvious, that the Whelan cover of "Pride of Chanur" was a
visual pun, and had several people at the Other Change of Hobbit
stare at me uncomprehendingly until I said, "What do you call a
bunch of lions, and how many males are on the cover of this book?"
Then they threw things at me. But I only said it because I assumed
everyone present (all of whom were more consistently pun-conscious
than I) had already noticed.
-- LJM
Paula Lieberman
news:9t7qosgt822b9u53b...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2000 03:10:17 -0400, "Paula Lieberman"
>
> >> > Claudia who?
> >> > Never mind, I don't care, and I won't see your response, anyway.
> >>
> >> For those who are curious, I've been reading all of this and can
> >> safely state that Eric means Claudia Christian, of "Babylon 5"
> >
was
> >being sarcastic. I think I can safely say that most of the people here
> >realized that the reference was to the former Babylon 5 cast member.
>
> No, the respondent really didn't know, and really didn't care.
> The respondent has never seen a single episode of "Babylon 5,"
> and doesn't care to. The respondent, while owning a television
> set, hasn't had it plugged in more than three months, and works
> second shift anyway, and when the respondent does sometimes catch
> a television program, prefers not to watch science fiction. The
> respondent does like televised fantasy, and was enthralled by
> G.W. Bush's acceptance speech, which he watched at work during a
> fit of boredom.
I did write, "was probably," and "I think... most of the people here
realized the reference...." and turned out to be wrong in the first
supposition.
David G. Bell
lis....@mediaone.net "Elisabeth Carey" wrote:
> Thomas Womack wrote:
> >
> > "Jo Walton" <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote
> >
> > > But at the moment Sasha is reading :Chanur's Venture:, and he's loving it.
> > > He disputes my authority on pronounciation of kif names and won't take my
> > > sig as evidence.
> >
> > Ooh! There are other books with kif in?
> >
> > I found _Pride of Chanur_ for eighty Dutch cents in a second-hand furniture
> > shop in Amsterdam, and was most impressed by the knnn and the kif and the
> > hani; what should I look for next? (at thirty times the price, probably,
> > once Amazon has taken its bite ...)
>
> The Chanur trilogy is _The Pride of Chanur_, _Chanur's Venture_, and
> _The Kif Strike Back_. These three are now available in an omnibus
> edition, _The Chanur Saga_. There's also _Chanur's Homecoming_, and
> _Chanur's Legacy, which are apparently currently out of print.
That doesn't look right -- _The Pride of Chanur_ was the standalone
first book, which was followed, a few years later, by the trilogy of
Venture, Kif, and Homecoming. You can argue that those four books are
one story, but doing only the first three is essentially broken.
Legacy deals with the next generation.
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
Copyright 2000 David G. Bell
The right to insert advertising material in the above text is reserved
to the author. The author did not use any form of HTML in the above text.
Any text following this line was added without the author's permission.
mike weber
<fn...@dial.pipex.com> typed
>
>Nancy Lebovitz wrote in message <8mjd1l$m...@netaxs.com>...
>>In article <soq2ls...@corp.supernews.com>,
>>Paula Lieberman <paal@REMOVE_gis.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>_Galaxy Quest_ may or may not win the Hugo for Best Dramatic Presentation
<snip>
>>> Other parts of what got it on the ballot were the
>>>rest of the plot, and the echoes of Star Trek and the way it became a
>>>cultural icon, and the -real- homage being paid in the film.
>>>
>>I think _Galaxy Quest_ also had the advantage of portraying the desire
>>for it all to be true--and it's not just media fen who feel that way.
>>
>Absolutely. I *loved* Galxy Quest - it was delightfully obvious that the
>writers had done their research, and actually liked Trek. But they weren't
>pussy footing, either.
>
I suspect that that's the homage referred to.
mike weber
<churn...@home.com> typed
>Which reminds me of the time I pointed out what I thought was
>completely obvious, that the Whelan cover of "Pride of Chanur" was a
>visual pun, and had several people at the Other Change of Hobbit
>stare at me uncomprehendingly until I said, "What do you call a
>bunch of lions, and how many males are on the cover of this book?"
>Then they threw things at me. But I only said it because I assumed
>everyone present (all of whom were more consistently pun-conscious
>than I) had already noticed.
>
My favourite Whelan bit -- whether it's intended the way i took it or
not -- is his cover for "Friday" -- she's wearing a jumpsuit with
zippers all over it. It's more visible in a large print than on the
book cover, but those zipper tabs have an Interesting shape.
And, of course, visible only in frame blowup stills from "The Mask",
in the scene where he's doing the Tex Avery bit with his heart
pounding out of his chest and so on, his shirt buttons are little
purple heart shapes...
Mary Kay Kare
> In message ID (<398ce2bf...@news.mindspring.com>)
> kras...@mindspring.com (mike weber) said:
>
> >The Dummie thought that the rings from gallon milk bottles were the
> >nuts.
>
> I've seen a lot of cats act that way over those. I'm not sure what the
> attraction is.
>
Yep. One of ours does. I wonder if they somehow resemble the tails of
archetypal Prey or something.
MKK
--
Member:
fwa
Evil Elitist Fannish Conspiracy
RASFF Fire, Usage, and Whinge Brigade
Worldwide TAFF Cabal (there is no cabal)