Boskone 37 Report Online
Janice Gelb
web site, at
http://www.geocities.com/j_gelb/boskone37.html
As usual, this report was written primarily as a con
diary for publication in my apa. Feel free to skip
boring personal details.
Enjoy!
-- Janice
***********************************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
janic...@marvin.eng.sun.com | this message is the return address.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8018/index.html
"Politics is show business for ugly people" -- James Carville
Gary Farber
Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
[. . .]
: As usual, this report was written primarily as a con
: diary for publication in my apa.
You have a personal apa?
[. . . .]
--
Gary Farber, at large. (E-mail to me at this address only temporarily,
and with "ATTN: GARY FARBER" in the header, please.)
Janice Gelb
>GARY FARBER HERE:
>
>Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
>[. . .]
>: As usual, this report was written primarily as a con
>: diary for publication in my apa.
>
>You have a personal apa?
>
Well, bloody pardon me for not using the long form
"the apa to which I belong." It's posts like this
that account for my not adding "welcome back, you've
been missed."
***********************************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
janic...@marvin.eng.sun.com | this message is the return address.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8018/index.html
"One who gives coin to the poor is rewarded with six blessings, but
one who pledges to a charity receives a free tote bag." David Bader
Bob Webber
: In article 1...@news.panix.com, Gary Farber <b...@panix.com> writes:
: >GARY FARBER HERE:
: >
: >Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
: >[. . .]
: >: As usual, this report was written primarily as a con
: >: diary for publication in my apa.
: >
: >You have a personal apa?
: >
: Well, bloody pardon me for not using the long form
: "the apa to which I belong." It's posts like this
: that account for my not adding "welcome back, you've
: been missed."
You have a personal not adding?
--
The secret to a long life
Is knowing when it's time to go.
-- Michelle Shocked
Gary Farber
Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
: In article 1...@news.panix.com, Gary Farber <b...@panix.com> writes:
:>GARY FARBER HERE:
:>
:>Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
:>[. . .]
:>: As usual, this report was written primarily as a con
:>: diary for publication in my apa.
:>
:>You have a personal apa?
: Well, bloody pardon me for not using the long form
: "the apa to which I belong." It's posts like this
: that account for my not adding "welcome back, you've
: been missed."
Yeeps. I'm sorry I wrote in such a way that you were able to interpret
those five words as seeming hostile; they weren't intended that way in the
slightest. Enough people do have personal apas that I intended a simple
inquiry for claritiy's sake. Admittedly, I am a noodge about not letting
fannish words be misused, but I'm awfully sorry that I somehow seemed
unfriendly to you. Since I don't feel that way at all, at all.
Ow. :-(
--
Gary Farber, at large. (E-mail to me at this address only temporarily.)
Loren MacGregor
Gary, why not say, "Geez, I'm sorry," instead of apologizing in such
a way that it seems to indicate that she was at fault for not
understanding you?
I mean, that's an irritating trait when I do it, so I'm sensitive to
it in others.
-- LJM
Janice Gelb
<
< GARY FARBER HERE:
<
< Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com< wrote:
< : In article 1...@news.panix.com, Gary Farber <b...@panix.com< writes:
< :<GARY FARBER HERE:
< :<
< :<Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com< wrote:
< :<[. . .]
< :<: As usual, this report was written primarily as a con
< :<: diary for publication in my apa.
< :<
< :<You have a personal apa?
<
< : Well, bloody pardon me for not using the long form
< : "the apa to which I belong." It's posts like this
< : that account for my not adding "welcome back, you've
< : been missed."
<
< Yeeps. I'm sorry I wrote in such a way that you were able to interpret
< those five words as seeming hostile; they weren't intended that way in the
< slightest. Enough people do have personal apas that I intended a simple
< inquiry for claritiy's sake. Admittedly, I am a noodge about not letting
< fannish words be misused, but I'm awfully sorry that I somehow seemed
< unfriendly to you. Since I don't feel that way at all, at all.
<
I have never heard of a personal apa so I assumed your
post was a snarf at the way I phrased the sentence.
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey
> Gary Farber wrote:
> < Enough people do have personal apas that I intended a simple
> < inquiry for claritiy's sake. Admittedly, I am a noodge about not letting
> < fannish words be misused, but I'm awfully sorry that I somehow seemed
> < unfriendly to you. Since I don't feel that way at all, at all.
>
> I have never heard of a personal apa so I assumed your
> post was a snarf at the way I phrased the sentence.
I suppose Janice just hasn't been active in fandom long enough to have
encountered the technical term "personal apa."
Neither have I.
What's a "personal apa?"
P.S. Correspondents may wish to know that "apa" unfolds into "Amateur Press
Association," and that I have participated in, um, un-personal APAs in my
time.
--
1. Push Button | Bill Higgins
2. Rub Hands Briskly Under Warm Air | Fermilab
3. Stops Automatically | Internet: hig...@fnal.fnal.gov
4. Wipe Hands On Pants | Bitnet: Sic transit gloria mundi
Andrew Plotkin
>
> I suppose Janice just hasn't been active in fandom long enough to have
> encountered the technical term "personal apa."
>
> Neither have I.
>
> What's a "personal apa?"
>
> P.S. Correspondents may wish to know that "apa" unfolds into "Amateur Press
> Association," and that I have participated in, um, un-personal APAs in my
> time.
What's an "Amateur Press Association"?
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
borogoves..."
Loren MacGregor
>
> Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey <hig...@fnal.gov> wrote:
> >
> > I suppose Janice just hasn't been active in fandom long enough to have
> > encountered the technical term "personal apa."
> >
> > Neither have I.
> >
> > What's a "personal apa?"
> >
> > P.S. Correspondents may wish to know that "apa" unfolds into "Amateur Press
> > Association," and that I have participated in, um, un-personal APAs in my
> > time.
>
> What's an "Amateur Press Association"?
A samizdat.
-- LJM
Andrew Plotkin
That's a large teddy-bear-like critter, big fangs, probably related to
fridge bears, right? Spock had one when he was a kid?
Got it -- thanks.
Gary Farber
Loren MacGregor <churn...@home.com> wrote:
: Gary Farber wrote:
:> GARY FARBER HERE:
:> Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
:> : In article 1...@news.panix.com, Gary Farber <b...@panix.com> writes:
:> :>GARY FARBER HERE:
:> :>
:> :>Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
:> :>[. . .]
:> :>: As usual, this report was written primarily as a con
:> :>: diary for publication in my apa.
:> :>
:> :>You have a personal apa?
:>
:> : Well, bloody pardon me for not using the long form
:> : "the apa to which I belong." It's posts like this
:> : that account for my not adding "welcome back, you've
:> : been missed."
:>
:> Yeeps. I'm sorry I wrote in such a way that you were able to interpret
:> those five words as seeming hostile; they weren't intended that way in the
:> slightest. Enough people do have personal apas that I intended a simple
:> inquiry for claritiy's sake. Admittedly, I am a noodge about not letting
:> fannish words be misused, but I'm awfully sorry that I somehow seemed
:> unfriendly to you. Since I don't feel that way at all, at all.
: Gary, why not say, "Geez, I'm sorry,"
Thought I had.
: instead of apologizing in such
: a way that it seems to indicate that she was at fault for not
: understanding you?
Didn't think I had. Geez, I'm sorry.
: I mean, that's an irritating trait when I do it, so I'm sensitive to
: it in others.
--
Gary Farber, possibly still shouldn't be at large.
Loren MacGregor
>
> : Gary, why not say, "Geez, I'm sorry,"
>
> Thought I had.
>
> : instead of apologizing in such
> : a way that it seems to indicate that she was at fault for not
> : understanding you?
>
> Didn't think I had. Geez, I'm sorry.
Okay. You know I don't mean to tromp on you. Or, as a friend of
mine once put it, "Of -course- I like you! If I didn't, I wouldn't
yell at you so much, I'd just ignore you."
That made me feel ... um ... "special."
On the other hand, if I come out of the interview in an hour with a
whole skin, it is very likely that I'll be back and forth to New
York a fair amount on business, in which case we could probably sit
down and talk directly at some point.
-- LJM
Gary Farber
Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
[. . .]
: I have never heard of a personal apa so I assumed your
: post was a snarf at the way I phrased the sentence.
Examples would be, say, Arthur Hlavaty's former GOLDEN APA (former because
he recently gave up "ownership" after a couple of decades -- "ownership"
meaning that he founded the apa, chose the members, and the only members
invited in were invited by him); or one might refer to "Deb Notkin's
INTERCOURSE," since she founded it, has been sole OE since founding, it's
a semi-private apa, and has always been more or less her project; FRANK'S
APA was Gregory Pickersgill's apa, if my memory isn't confused; one could
have loosely referred to OASIS as the OE' apa. And so on.
I can think of a number of other examples of "personal apas," ranging from
the most clearly defined as such, such as GA, to more loosely referring to
apas founded by someone and solely OEd by them as such. It certainly
seemed entirely possible to me that you started an apa of your own at some
point in recent years, and I'd not heard. I had the vague impression you
were in more than one apa, as well.
As to the usage of referring to an apa one is merely a member of as "my
apa," well, obviously it's not unreasonable to do so if it is the sole apa
one is in, though it's not the clearest usage, and one could even more
loosely use it to casually refer to any apa one is in, though that would
be an even less clear usage. But when I do make grammatical "snarfs," I
certainly don't *intend* them to be *nasty*, as opposed to humorous
tweakings between friends. Again, though, I apologize for any offense
given.
--
Gary Farber, abashedly.
Janice Gelb
>Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey <hig...@fnal.gov> wrote:
>>
>> I suppose Janice just hasn't been active in fandom long enough to have
>> encountered the technical term "personal apa."
>>
>> Neither have I.
>>
>> What's a "personal apa?"
>>
Thanks, Bill: this is very comforting :->
>> P.S. Correspondents may wish to know that "apa" unfolds into "Amateur Press
>> Association," and that I have participated in, um, un-personal APAs in my
>> time.
>
>What's an "Amateur Press Association"?
>
From the Fan Dictionary (definition by Nancy Lebowitz):
APA: (Amateur Press Association)
A bulletin board system conducted through snail mail that produces
actual artifacts. For each edition (called a "mailing" or
"distribution"), members contribute pre printed personal informal
fanzines (apazines). Sometimes the OE will do printing for the members;
some apas even accept emailed zines which are then printed by the OE.
In any event, many apazines include or consist mostly or entirely of
comments on the contributions published in the previous mailing/-
distribution. The contributions go to an Official Editor (OE) [the
actual title may vary], who makes up distributions/- mailings
consisting of one copy of each zine and gives (in the case of a
distribution) or sends (in the case of a mailing) them out to each of
the members. To remain a member, one must meet minimum activity (minac)
requirements, usually defined as a certain number of pages of original
material within a given timeframe, plus (in most instances) pay dues to
defray the costs of postage and publication of an Official Organ (OO).
Some apas are designed for discussion on specific topics (e.g., APA 69,
sex; REHUPA, the Robert E. Howard apa; CAPRA, the movie apa, etc.)
while most are general interest.
Gary Farber
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
[. . .]
: What's an "Amateur Press Association"?
Newsgroups by snail mail, more or less. FAPA, the Fantasy Amateur Press
Association, was started around 1938. See www.fanac.org, and the entries
in the references, such as the FANCYCLOPEDIAs, for more information, or
ALL OUR YESTERDAYS or A WEALTH OF FABLE. Or if you have more questions,
we can answer them here, of course.
--
Gary Farber, uh huh, uh huh.
Andrew Plotkin
Thanks. To Nancy as well, I guess. :)
Gary Farber
Loren MacGregor <churn...@home.com> wrote:
[. . .]
: Okay. You know I don't mean to tromp on you.
Ectually, this is sometimes less than crystal clear. So thank you muchly
for saying this. My feelings can be, and often are, alas, quite
sensitive, in fact.
: Or, as a friend of
: mine once put it, "Of -course- I like you! If I didn't, I wouldn't
: yell at you so much, I'd just ignore you."
: That made me feel ... um ... "special."
Don't it, though?
: On the other hand, if I come out of the interview in an hour with a
: whole skin, it is very likely that I'll be back and forth to New
: York a fair amount on business, in which case we could probably sit
: down and talk directly at some point.
Would love to see you. I'm more than Sick To Death of rasseff discussions
of How Gary Is Communicating and Did He Or Didn't He Really Say Something
Offensive, though I surely also wish I could learn better how to somehow
make clear when I'm actually intending to be snarky and when I'm not; the
former is generally fairly rare, and I usually then regret it later,
anyway. I wish I could someday convince people to give me the benefit of
the doubt, and not *automatically* assume I must mean something in an
unpleasant way. I really rarely do. I'm a pussy cat, a teddy bear, a big
ball of mush. With a smart mouth.
Best of luck with your interview!
--
Gary Farber, only temporarily at this e-mail address.
Gary Farber
Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
[. . .]
: From the Fan Dictionary (definition by Nancy Lebowitz):
: APA: (Amateur Press Association)
: A bulletin board system conducted through snail mail that produces
: actual artifacts. For each edition (called a "mailing" or
: "distribution"), members contribute pre printed personal informal
: fanzines (apazines). Sometimes the OE will do printing for the members;
: some apas even accept emailed zines which are then printed by the OE.
: In any event, many apazines include or consist mostly or entirely of
: comments on the contributions published in the previous mailing/-
: distribution. The contributions go to an Official Editor (OE) [the
: actual title may vary], who makes up distributions/- mailings
: consisting of one copy of each zine and gives (in the case of a
: distribution) or sends (in the case of a mailing) them out to each of
: the members. To remain a member, one must meet minimum activity (minac)
: requirements, usually defined as a certain number of pages of original
: material within a given timeframe, plus (in most instances) pay dues to
: defray the costs of postage and publication of an Official Organ (OO).
: Some apas are designed for discussion on specific topics (e.g., APA 69,
: sex; REHUPA, the Robert E. Howard apa; CAPRA, the movie apa, etc.)
: while most are general interest.
As an approximation, this is adquate, but there are some points worth
noting, even in a short version.
One is that APAs predate fandom; it was Jack Speer's invention of the
"mailing comment," circa 1939, in which one would actually comment in
one's zine on the statement in someone else's zine in the previous bundle,
thus starting cross-conversation, that was the crucial distinction that
made the sf apa, initially FAPA, unique. Mundane APAs consist(ed) of
formal publications which generally did/do not acknowledge each other's
existence very much, and the APA merely serves()d to distribute them all
to the same people, the producers.
Another point is that in the Sixties, non-sf apas started splitting off
from sf fandom apas, starting with the comics apas, which developed some
mildly different tradtions (such as having a "CM," a "Central Mailer,"
instead of an OE, typically, for example); nowadays, there are hundreds of
vaguely or not-terribly related to sf fandom apas, and the degree of
relationship is nearly impossible to sort out for many. But there are all
sorts of "fan-fiction" media apas, and gaming apas, and amateur writing
apas, and more weird hybrids than I can probably imagine, let alone know
about, along with more traditional discussion-based sf fan apas.
Yet another point is that, as a result, there are innumerable exceptions
to almost every statement in the above definition, even among many
traditional sf apas. Some trad apas *don't* have minacs, some *are* for
formal zines, many apazines *don't* consist largely of mailing comments,
many apas *don't* have dues, some *don't* use the usage of "mailings" or
"distributions," and so forth. Frequency can vary as wildly as the annual
Worldcon apa, to hourly apas at cons; Apa-L is still weekly.
But as a quick and dirty summary, Nancy's definition isn't bad.
--
Gary Farber, pedant at large.
Vicki Rosenzweig
If you want a computer/net analogy, mailing lists are probably
closer: apas generally have few if any lurkers, and those few
usually have some specific connection to active participants.
Unless there are rules against it, an apa may occasionally be
read by a member's family, housemates, or friends--it's unlikely
to be read by dozens or thousands of complete strangers who don't
even tell anyone they're doing so.
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
Sue Mason for TAFF!
Vicki Rosenzweig
>GARY FARBER HERE:
>
>Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
>[. . .]
I might say "my apa" in the same way as I might say "my neighborhood"
or "my friend" or someone might say "my club" or "my dog": there's
no guarantee of singularity, only that if I have more than one, the
distinction isn't currently relevant.
I'm in more than one apa, and sometimes think of more
than one neighborhood as "mine" (principally the one I live in,
and the one I work in, which is also where I go to the gym and
do a certain amount of my shopping), and plenty of people would
say "my dog" even if they have more than one: "Sorry I can't come
in today, I have to take my dog to the vet."
Cally Soukup
> On the other hand, if I come out of the interview in an hour with a
> whole skin, it is very likely that I'll be back and forth to New
> York a fair amount on business, in which case we could probably sit
I do hope it went well!
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Dave Weingart
>What's an "Amateur Press Association"?
A group of people who iron clothes, not for profit or for looks, but
for the fun of it.
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK If you can read this,
mailto:phyd...@liii.com Y2K was over-hyped.
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux
ICQ 57055207
mike weber
<churn...@home.com> typed
:
>Andrew Plotkin wrote:
>>
>> Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey <hig...@fnal.gov> wrote:
>> >
>> > I suppose Janice just hasn't been active in fandom long enough to have
>> > encountered the technical term "personal apa."
>> >
>> > Neither have I.
>> >
>> > What's a "personal apa?"
>> >
>> > Association," and that I have participated in, um, un-personal APAs in my
>> > time.
>>
>
>
Same as whut?
--
Who would speak truth should have one foot in the stirrup.
(Church bulletin board, Dunwoody GA)
==========================================================
mike weber
kras...@mindspring.com/Half-Complete Website of Xeno:
http://weberworld.virtualave.net
mike weber
<hig...@fnal.gov> typed
:
>On 28 Mar 2000, Janice Gelb wrote:
>
>> Gary Farber wrote:
>> < inquiry for claritiy's sake. Admittedly, I am a noodge about not letting
>> < fannish words be misused, but I'm awfully sorry that I somehow seemed
>> < unfriendly to you. Since I don't feel that way at all, at all.
>>
>> post was a snarf at the way I phrased the sentence.
>
>encountered the technical term "personal apa."
>
>Neither have I.
>
>What's a "personal apa?"
>
>P.S. Correspondents may wish to know that "apa" unfolds into "Amateur Press
>Association," and that I have participated in, um, un-personal APAs in my
>time.
>
refer to a person's apazine. Dunno why...
Kip Williams
>
> Quoth Gary Farber <b...@panix.com> on 28 Mar 2000 21:49:01 GMT:
>
> >GARY FARBER HERE:
> >
> >Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> >[. . .]
> >
> >: What's an "Amateur Press Association"?
> >
> >Newsgroups by snail mail, more or less. FAPA, the Fantasy Amateur Press
> >Association, was started around 1938. See www.fanac.org, and the entries
> >in the references, such as the FANCYCLOPEDIAs, for more information, or
> >ALL OUR YESTERDAYS or A WEALTH OF FABLE. Or if you have more questions,
> >we can answer them here, of course.
>
> If you want a computer/net analogy, mailing lists are probably
> closer: apas generally have few if any lurkers, and those few
> usually have some specific connection to active participants.
> Unless there are rules against it, an apa may occasionally be
> read by a member's family, housemates, or friends--it's unlikely
> to be read by dozens or thousands of complete strangers who don't
> even tell anyone they're doing so.
I'll never forget the dubious feeling when complete strangers
approached me at out-of-state cons with their opinions on my apa
writing. Then there was the day I realized that the stuff I put on
paper could be there, functionally, forever. Sobering thoughts.
--
--Kip (Williams)
amusing the world at http://members.home.net/kipw/
Ray Radlein
>
> I'm more than Sick To Death of rasseff discussions of How Gary Is
> Communicating and Did He Or Didn't He Really Say Something
> Offensive, though I surely also wish I could learn better how to
> somehow make clear when I'm actually intending to be snarky and
> when I'm not; the former is generally fairly rare, and I usually
> then regret it later, anyway.
Use the "X-No-Snarky: No" header, of course, as outlined in RFC 9413.
Unless, of course, you aren't being snarky, in which case you might
want to use the "X-No-Not-Snarky: No" header, or perhaps the
"X-No-Not-Snarky-Header: Huh?" header for all the rest of the times.
> I wish I could someday convince people to give me the benefit of
> the doubt, and not *automatically* assume I must mean something
> in an unpleasant way.
Tham's fightin' words, Mistrrr.
- Ray R.
--
**********************************************************************
"And today's theme ingredient is... HYDROGEN!"
- Chairman Kaga, "Ion Chef"
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
**********************************************************************
Loren MacGregor
>
> for the fun of it.
You left out the bench.
-- LJM
Janice Gelb
>But as a quick and dirty summary, Nancy's definition isn't bad.
>
I notice you spent two messages and many paragraphs expanding on what
even you say was an adequate definition of apas. Perhaps the post has
not reached my server yet, but I have yet to see your answer to Bill's
question regarding what a "personal apa" is, a term that you used in a
response to me and that has yet to be defined.
Dave Weingart
>> A group of people who iron clothes, not for profit or for looks, but
>> for the fun of it.
>
>You left out the bench.
Pumping me for information, eh?
Loren MacGregor
>
> One day in Teletubbyland, Loren MacGregor <churn...@home.com> said:
> >> A group of people who iron clothes, not for profit or for looks, but
> >> for the fun of it.
> >
> >You left out the bench.
>
> Pumping me for information, eh?
Consider it the press of circumstances.
-- LJM
Gary Farber
mike weber <kras...@mindspring.com> wrote:
[. . .]
: I have noticed that some people on the fringes use the term "apa" to
: refer to a person's apazine. Dunno why...
Oh, sloppy usage is rampant these days, with people indiscriminately
referring to "writing my apa this weekend" (wow, multiple identity
crisis), or "I have to get something into the zine," referring to an apa,
or all sorts of strange wordings. Which is why I do tend to encourage
clear usage, for the usual reasons we encourage clear usage: for clarity
of communication.
And I'm apt to be fussier about fannish usages than general English ones,
because there are few enough of us to help fannish usages stay reasonably
clear.
Not HHOK, at all.
--
Gary Farber, ook ook, slobber drool.
Dave Weingart
Just so long as you don't get personal and call me a dumbbell.
Gary Farber
: even you say was an adequate definition of apas. Perhaps the post has
: not reached my server yet,
Clearly, since I wrote and posted my response about "personal apas" prior
to the two messages you have seen.
: but I have yet to see your answer to Bill's
: question regarding what a "personal apa" is, a term that you used in a
: response to me and that has yet to be defined.
Yes, I defined it. Janice, why do you seem to be trying to pick a fight
over nothing? What are you mad about?
[. . . .]
--
Gary Farber, scratching his head.
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey
Gary, I've checked my local newsfeed and Dejanews, and I can't find your
response either (or I can't recognize it as a response to my question).
Janice, you must admit that it would be Totally In Character for Gary to
post a definition just as soon as he read my question. It is surprising
that one hasn't appeared yet, and not surprising that Gary claims to have
written one. I guess it got lost in Tumbolia on its way to Rasff.
With this post missing in action, Gary appears to be avoiding the question.
Which is not the case.
I *really* didn't want to stir up any further irritation of anyone by anyone
else. I just wanted to know what "personal apa" meant.
(I was lazy in not defining "amateur press association" in my first
posting. Sorry. But others have now done a good job of explaining these
peculiar and often-delightful institutions.)
--
Barry Gehm, contemplating | Bill Higgins
an obnoxious oldie on the jukebox: | Fermilab
"Music like this is the reason I left the Fifties." | hig...@fnal.fnal.gov
Sandra Bond
silping a nuclear fizz in the insurgent manner, wrote:
>GARY FARBER HERE:>: I have never heard of a personal apa so I assumed your
>
>he recently gave up "ownership" after a couple of decades -- "ownership"
>meaning that he founded the apa, chose the members, and the only members
>invited in were invited by him); or one might refer to "Deb Notkin's
>INTERCOURSE," since she founded it, has been sole OE since founding, it's
>a semi-private apa, and has always been more or less her project; FRANK'S
>APA was Gregory Pickersgill's apa, if my memory isn't confused; one could
>have loosely referred to OASIS as the OE' apa. And so on.
Point taken in general terms, though in specific ones Frank's Apa (now
Pieces of Eight) was hardly Greg Pickersgill's personal apa; he was
merely the first administrator, and indeed dropped out within, I think,
the first year or so.
Sandra
--
"After I die, I shall return to Earth as gatekeeper of a bordello,
and I won't let any of you -- not a one of you -- enter."
(-- Arturo Toscanini)
///sandra bond: san...@ho-street.demon.co.uk////sue mason for TAFF!///
Janice Gelb
Gary:
I've just gone to DejaNews. For some exceedingly bizarre reason,
neither your post that explains what a personal apa is, nor your post
that asks why I'm trying to pick a fight when I ask where your
explanation is, have made it to my server, although later posts from
you, and in the same subject threads, have shown up long since.
My sincere apologies for assuming you were trying to duck an issue
rather than assuming it was an electronic glitch. I'm sorry.
-- Janice
mike weber
:
>GARY FARBER HERE:
>: refer to a person's apazine. Dunno why...
>
>Oh, sloppy usage is rampant these days, with people indiscriminately
>referring to "writing my apa this weekend" (wow, multiple identity
>crisis), or "I have to get something into the zine," referring to an apa,
>or all sorts of strange wordings. Which is why I do tend to encourage
>clear usage, for the usual reasons we encourage clear usage: for clarity
>of communication.
>
>And I'm apt to be fussier about fannish usages than general English ones,
>because there are few enough of us to help fannish usages stay reasonably
>clear.
>
>Not HHOK, at all.
>
--
"...no use looking for the answers when the questions are in
doubt..."
"The Love of My Life" by F.LeBlanc (Cowboy Mouth)
<mike weber> <kras...@mindspring.com>
Ambitious Incomplete web site: http://weberworld.virtualave.net
Julie Stampnitzky
> Andrew Plotkin wrote:
> >
> > What's an "Amateur Press Association"?
>
> A samizdat.
What's a samizdat?
--
Julie Stampnitzky http://www.yucs.org/~jules
Rehovot, Israel http://neskaya.darkover.cx
Dave Weingart
>What's a samizdat?
It's fairly similar to a samizdis.
tkarney@hotmail...com
A, "samizdat," is a self-published work in Russia. It
means, to be known by me, or personal knowledge.
They were underground publications, frowned on by the State
and often subversive. by way of example, Anna Akhmatova's
poetry was disseminated by samizdat. People would hear it (I am
particularly fond of "Lot's Wife" Will post it if anyone is
interested, memorize it and then type out a few copies for
friends.
TK
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
tkarney@hotmail...com
>I'll never forget the dubious feeling when complete strangers
>approached me at out-of-state cons with their opinions on my apa
>writing. Then there was the day I realized that the stuff I put
on
>paper could be there, functionally, forever. Sobering thoughts.
>
>--
>--Kip (Williams)
>amusing the world at http://members.home.net/kipw/
>
>
Funny, I was arwre of that long before I started writing. In
fact I did not write letters for the longest time because I was
afraid of just that fact. Heaven forfend I should say something
stupid in print where it would never fade. Each time the reader
got to it, it would be unchanged.
Then I had someone I wanted to staty in touch with go on a
wanderjhar for four months with nothing more than a mail drop to
send things to. I got over it.
tkarney@hotmail...com
Perhaps the misuse of, "zine," stems from the leakage of the
word to the rest of the world. Some eight years ago I heard a
radio feature on the change computers were making in the
publishing world by making it possible for anyone to publish a
periodical (of whatever periodicty) and for a low cost.
These were referred to (by one and all in the story) as, you
guessed it, "zines."
So I am not all that suprised to see the usage changing.
Andrew Plotkin
> Perhaps the misuse of, "zine," stems from the leakage of the
> word to the rest of the world. Some eight years ago I heard a
> radio feature on the change computers were making in the
> publishing world by making it possible for anyone to publish a
> periodical (of whatever periodicty) and for a low cost.
>
> These were referred to (by one and all in the story) as, you
> guessed it, "zines."
>
> So I am not all that suprised to see the usage changing.
You haven't quoted, and I don't remember any post in the thread about
misuse of "zine".
What was the original meaning you're contrasting this meaning with? "An
(amateur) periodical of whatever periodicity" sounds like the definition
I've always heard.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
borogoves..."
Rich McAllister K6RFM
> A, "samizdat," is a self-published work in Russia. It
> means, to be known by me, or personal knowledge.
Uh, no. "Izdat" means "publish", and "sam" is the reflexive
prefix. Thus, "self-publish".
Rich
Cally Soukup
> On 29 Mar 2000, Gary Farber wrote:
> Gary, I've checked my local newsfeed and Dejanews, and I can't find your
> response either (or I can't recognize it as a response to my question).
It made it to my local newsfeed. Since Gary's message isn't making
it to your server, allow me to repost it below:
>Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:42:03 rec.arts.sf.fandom Thread 67 of 113
>Lines 34 Re: Boskone 37 Report Online RespNo 41 of 43
>Gary Farber <b...@panix.com> at PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
>Message-ID: <8br8vb$eae$1...@news.panix.com>
>
>
>GARY FARBER HERE:
>Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
>[. . .]
>: I have never heard of a personal apa so I assumed your
>: post was a snarf at the way I phrased the sentence.
>
>Examples would be, say, Arthur Hlavaty's former GOLDEN APA (former
>because he recently gave up "ownership" after a couple of decades --
>"ownership" meaning that he founded the apa, chose the members, and
>the only members invited in were invited by him); or one might refer
>to "Deb Notkin's INTERCOURSE," since she founded it, has been sole
>OE since founding, it's a semi-private apa, and has always been more
>or less her project; FRANK'S APA was Gregory Pickersgill's apa, if
>my memory isn't confused; one could have loosely referred to OASIS
>as the OE' apa. And so on. I can think of a number of other
>examples of "personal apas," ranging from the most clearly defined
>as such, such as GA, to more loosely referring to apas founded by
>someone and solely OEd by them as such. It certainly seemed
>entirely possible to me that you started an apa of your own at some
>point in recent years, and I'd not heard. I had the vague
>impression you were in more than one apa, as well.
>
>As to the usage of referring to an apa one is merely a member of as
>"my apa," well, obviously it's not unreasonable to do so if it is
>the sole apa one is in, though it's not the clearest usage, and one
>could even more loosely use it to casually refer to any apa one is
>in, though that would be an even less clear usage. But when I do
>make grammatical "snarfs," I certainly don't *intend* them to be
>*nasty*, as opposed to humorous tweakings between friends. Again,
>though, I apologize for any offense given.
>--
>Gary Farber, abashedly.
mike weber
typed
:
>On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Loren MacGregor wrote:
>
>> Andrew Plotkin wrote:
>> >
>> > What's an "Amateur Press Association"?
>>
>> A samizdat.
>
>What's a samizdat?
>
Nancy Lebovitz
Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
>From the Fan Dictionary (definition by Nancy Lebowitz):
>
>APA: (Amateur Press Association)
>A bulletin board system conducted through snail mail that produces
>actual artifacts. For each edition (called a "mailing" or
>"distribution"), members contribute pre printed personal informal
>fanzines (apazines). Sometimes the OE will do printing for the members;
>some apas even accept emailed zines which are then printed by the OE.
>In any event, many apazines include or consist mostly or entirely of
>comments on the contributions published in the previous mailing/-
>distribution. The contributions go to an Official Editor (OE) [the
>actual title may vary], who makes up distributions/- mailings
>consisting of one copy of each zine and gives (in the case of a
>distribution) or sends (in the case of a mailing) them out to each of
>the members. To remain a member, one must meet minimum activity (minac)
>requirements, usually defined as a certain number of pages of original
>material within a given timeframe, plus (in most instances) pay dues to
>defray the costs of postage and publication of an Official Organ (OO).
>Some apas are designed for discussion on specific topics (e.g., APA 69,
>sex; REHUPA, the Robert E. Howard apa; CAPRA, the movie apa, etc.)
>while most are general interest.
>
I don't think I wrote that definition. It's possible that there's
a Nancy Lebowitz (note spelling) in fandom who wrote it, though I'm
a bit surprised that I've never heard of her.
I don't remember writing it--this isn't evidence, since I write
enough that I don't remember all of it, but there are also details
in the definition that don't seem like the way I'd say things. I'm
reasonably certain that I've never heard of REHUPA, that I'd have
said "cover" rather than "defray", and that I'd have mentioned
more about the varied rules and structures.
I've never been in an apa which had a pagecount minac or that referred
to "dues" rather than a "postage account".
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
The calligraphic button website is up!
Ray Radlein
>
> You haven't quoted, and I don't remember any post in the thread
> about misuse of "zine".
>
> What was the original meaning you're contrasting this meaning with?
"A small cephalopod, native to the waters of the Adriatic Sea."
mike weber
typed
:
>I've never been in an apa which had a pagecount minac or that referred
>to "dues" rather than a "postage account".
>
And i've never been in one that *didn't*.
Leah A. Zeldes
> You haven't quoted, and I don't remember any post in the thread about
> misuse of "zine".
>
> What was the original meaning you're contrasting this meaning with? "An
> (amateur) periodical of whatever periodicity" sounds like the definition
> I've always heard.
"Zine" originally was a short form of "fanzine," a
fannish term coined in 1940 by Louis Russell Chauvenet.
What's missing from the definition above is that
fanzines are amateur periodicals published by SF fans.
However, "zine" has slipped into mundane usage and is
now applied to amateur publications produced by fans of
wrestling, football, music and what have you. If it
hasn't made dictionaries yet, I expect it will soon.
"Fanzine" is in Webster's New World College Dictionary,
defined as "a magazine, usually produced by amateurs,
devoted to a special-interest group, such as fans of
science fiction or comic books."
Leah Zeldes Smith
Loren MacGregor
>
> On 31 Mar 2000 05:18:36 GMT, na...@unix3.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz)
> typed
> :
>
> >I've never been in an apa which had a pagecount minac or that referred
> >to "dues" rather than a "postage account".
> >
> And i've never been in one that *didn't*.
I invoke the gods of TimeWarner, AOL and Netscape here.
-- LJM
Dave Weingart
Why, what APA are they in?
Gary Farber
Various folks have said they've not received this post on their servers,
so I'm reposting it, and e-mailing it to Janice.
[ This is a repost of the following article: ]
[ From: Gary Farber <b...@panix.com> ]
[ Subject: Re: Boskone 37 Report Online ]
[ Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom ]
[ Message-ID: <8br8vb$eae$1...@news.panix.com> ]
GARY FARBER HERE:
--
Gary Farber, abashedly.
--
gf; all e-mail should say "ATTN: GARY FARBER," and April 1st is the last
chance I'll have to see it.
Gary Farber
Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
: [posted and mailed]
: Gary:
: I've just gone to DejaNews. For some exceedingly bizarre reason,
: neither your post that explains what a personal apa is, nor your post
: that asks why I'm trying to pick a fight when I ask where your
: explanation is, have made it to my server, although later posts from
: you, and in the same subject threads, have shown up long since.
: My sincere apologies for assuming you were trying to duck an issue
: rather than assuming it was an electronic glitch. I'm sorry.
Accepted. I've reposted the relevant post, and e-mailed it to you.
--
Gary Farber; all e-mail for me to this address should have "ATTN: GARY
FARBER" in the header; moreoever, it will likely not be seen by me if not
sent by April 1st. I'll be offline after that until I have a computer
again.
Gary Farber
Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix3.netaxs.com> wrote:
[. . .]
: I've never been in an apa which had a pagecount minac or that referred
: to "dues" rather than a "postage account".
That's the setup for all of the older apas, including FAPA and SAPS.
--
Gary Farber
Brenda Daverin
>I've never been in an apa which had a pagecount minac or that referred
>to "dues" rather than a "postage account".
I don't remember if the APA I was in called it dues or a postage account,
but it certainly had a pagecount minac. It also disallowed comments from
the minac unless they were done as a creative exercise instead of merely a
listing of names followed by whatever. Of course, it was more of an
artists' APA than anything else. Once in a great while, someone did their
comments as a comic strip.
--
Brenda Daverin
bdav...@best.com
"Usenet is just e-mail with witnesses." - Rob Hansen
The Unravelled Ferret - http://members.aol.com/lysana/
Kip Williams
>
> na...@unix3.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote in <8c1cfc$g...@netaxs.com>:
>
> >I've never been in an apa which had a pagecount minac or that referred
> >to "dues" rather than a "postage account".
>
> I don't remember if the APA I was in called it dues or a postage account,
> but it certainly had a pagecount minac. It also disallowed comments from
> the minac unless they were done as a creative exercise instead of merely a
> listing of names followed by whatever. Of course, it was more of an
> artists' APA than anything else. Once in a great while, someone did their
> comments as a comic strip.
I did mailing comics a couple of times in the late 70s.
Nancy Lebovitz
>GARY FARBER HERE:
>
>Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix3.netaxs.com> wrote:
>[. . .]
>
>
apa terminology and rules.
My background is Apa Nu, Golden Apa, Pagan Apa, Freefanzine, Linguica,
The Junto, and Our Gang.
Allan Beatty
>
> GARY FARBER HERE:
>
> Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix3.netaxs.com> wrote:
> [. . .]
> : I've never been in an apa which had a pagecount minac or that referred
> : to "dues" rather than a "postage account".
>
> That's the setup for all of the older apas, including FAPA and SAPS.
>
> Gary Farber
Gary, you might have seen Apa-50 when it had BOTH dues AND
postage accounts for members who wanted first class delivery.
--
Allan Beatty
"Our God has no favorites" http://www.ames.net/uccmisu/