Fandom just the same as always
GAR...@delphi.com
Why do I feel like Rip Van Winkle?
About 25 years ago I got away from fandom, selling all my fanzines (well,
almost all) and dropping out of just about everything. After a few years
I was completely out. No more FAPA. No more SAPS. No more N3F. No more
cons, meetings, mail runs, etc.
So here I come lurking in a group called ... you know ... and what do I
find? Mentions of Ackerman, Harry Warner (two books? I missed number two),
Dean Drive, Hieronymus machines, TAFF, DUFF, cons, fanzines, LOCUS (is
Charlie Brown still doing it?), and some posts from rich brown.
And there are folks arguing about what is and is not filk, where TANSTAAFL
comes from, can what's good and bad about cons, TAFF, rich brown, etc.
Have I been away at all? I guess so ... I don't recognize many of the
names. But has there been a dark age? People seem interested in knowing
what various fandom slang means. Has fanspeak been lost? What became of
the Devil's Dictionary? And Fancyclopedia? and Tucker's pubs? And even
the stuff we published for N3F? And N3F?
What has become of all the fans I knew? And pros, for that matter? Are they
all just lurking or could it be that the most progressive people I have
even known eschew the Internet? And are people still nice enough to answer
questions from what is now a neo?
Regarding one item I spotted -- someone asking about hanging in the lobby.
One of the best times I recall was a lobbycon at the World Stf Con in
Toronto (I believe in 70? 71?). We camped out on the balcony overlooking
the lobby and talked, sang, and etc. into the wee hours. The management
was very nice about it, bringing us blankets so we could sleep on the
couches and chairs there. I was there with my then small family (wife and
young child) and have a few of the pictures I took then which I have
managed to keep. There is Gardner Dozois, posing absurdly. There is my
daughter sitting on Asimov's lap (good ol' Uncle Ike). There are some
other folks from NYC, whose name I can't recall, but I do know he is dead.
It was a great con.
I also remember sitting in an elevator all night with Gardner (same one)
at a Balticon (date unknown, but Roger Zalazney was guest of honor, I
believe). We just rode up and down, with various folks (including mundane
guests at the motel) dropping in and out. We called it, of course,
elevatorcon and had what we then thought of as a good time.
I guess I have a lot of other con memories -- a lot of other fanzine
memories -- a lot of meeting memories ("Old Chinese joke: I almost break
your foot!" Andy Porter, are you still there???).
rich brown ... Larry Tucker ... is fandom still fandom or is another thing
of the same name? What is left?
Shall I just roll over and go back to sleep with my dreams of the days
gone by?
Why do I feel like Rip Van Winkle?
Gary Labowitz
Rainbow V 1.17.1 for Delphi - Test Drive
P Nielsen Hayden
>About 25 years ago I got away from fandom, selling all my fanzines (well,
>almost all) and dropping out of just about everything. After a few years
>I was completely out. No more FAPA. No more SAPS. No more N3F. No more
>cons, meetings, mail runs, etc.
>So here I come lurking in a group called ... you know ... and what do I
>find? Mentions of Ackerman, Harry Warner (two books? I missed number two),
>Dean Drive, Hieronymus machines, TAFF, DUFF, cons, fanzines, LOCUS (is
>Charlie Brown still doing it?), and some posts from rich brown.
>And there are folks arguing about what is and is not filk, where TANSTAAFL
>comes from, can what's good and bad about cons, TAFF, rich brown, etc.
You're absolutely right. Fandom _never_ changes. Infinitely short
attention span, infinitely long memory, check, gotcha.
-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden: p...@tor.com : opinions mine
http://www.panix.com/~pnh : http://www.tor.com
Laurie D. T. Mann @ Get Online!
> almost all) and dropping out of just about everything. After a few years
> I was completely out. No more FAPA. No more SAPS. No more N3F. No more
> cons, meetings, mail runs, etc.
Ahh, but you've posted to a fannish-related group which means:
YOU'VE COMMITTED FANAC!
> So here I come lurking in a group called ... you know ... and what do I
> find? Mentions of Ackerman, Harry Warner (two books? I missed number two),
> Dean Drive, Hieronymus machines, TAFF, DUFF, cons, fanzines, LOCUS (is
> Charlie Brown still doing it?), and some posts from rich brown.
Of course Charlie is. You don't think he'd let THAT get away from him,
would you?
> What has become of all the fans I knew? And pros, for that matter? Are they
> all just lurking or could it be that the most progressive people I have
> even known eschew the Internet? And are people still nice enough to answer
> questions from what is now a neo?
You find more pros on GEnie and CompuServe, but there are a few here
(most notably a "young upstart" named Joel Rosenberg---but he wasn't
publishing 25 years ago).
> There is Gardner Dozois, posing absurdly.
I spent part of my honeymoon with Gardner, posing absurdly...<g>
(Jim & I got married days before Star Wars premired, and spent part of
our honeymoon at Disclave the following weekend. Gardner spent the
weekend pretending to be a wookie...)
> Andy Porter, are you still there??? rich brown ... Larry Tucker ...
Andy & Larry are still active in fandom, and rich has been active in
this group.
> Why do I feel like Rip Van Winkle?
The inclusions of women and computers haven't mattered at all?
(well, now that I think of it...mebbe not...)
Laurie Mann*lm...@telerama.lm.com*http://worcester.lm.com/lmann/index.html
Karen Cooper
>About 25 years ago I got away from fandom, selling all my fanzines (well,
>almost all)
So, what did you keep?
>So here I come lurking in a group called ... you know ... and what do I
>find? Mentions of Ackerman, Harry Warner (two books? I missed number two),
Harry did another fanhistory. Of course I am blanking on the title, and
a quick rummage through the books failed to locate it. Somebody pitch in
here.
>Have I been away at all? I guess so ... I don't recognize many of the
>names. But has there been a dark age? People seem interested in knowing
>what various fandom slang means. Has fanspeak been lost?
Nah. That thread comes up every six months or so. Last time, someone
even put together a nice FAQ, but she seems to have unsubscribed, or
lost her net.connection, or something.
>What became of
>the Devil's Dictionary? And Fancyclopedia? and Tucker's pubs? And even
>the stuff we published for N3F? And N3F?
I can't answer any of those except that if it's Bob Tucker, he's now 80
and I think he keeps up in one apa, but doesn't write anything else. He
still makes it to conventions and smooothes with everybody. The Neofan's
Guide is still out there, isn't it? Again, somebody.....
>What has become of all the fans I knew? And pros, for that matter?
Some are still with it; some aren't. Ask us, we might have specifics on
people you want to know about.
>And are people still nice enough to answer
>questions from what is now a neo?
Yes.
>One of the best times I recall was a lobbycon at the World Stf Con in
>Toronto (I believe in 70? 71?).
1973, I think it was.
>rich brown ... Larry Tucker ... is fandom still fandom or is another thing
>of the same name? What is left?
>Shall I just roll over and go back to sleep with my dreams of the days
>gone by?
Lots is left, and lots is new, and lots has changed. Me, I think you
should hang around and tells us more stories, and ask a bunch of
questions, and like that, and then decide.
Karen. [though I have no idea what is up with the N3F]
Karen Cooper
>lm...@telerama.lm.com (Laurie D. T. Mann @ Get Online!) writes:
>>Ahh, but you've posted to a fannish-related group which means:
>>YOU'VE COMMITTED FANAC!
>Pish. He was committing fanac already. In fact, total gafia is fanac in its
>purest form, for:
>(1) It can only be committed by fans, and
>(2) It is engaged in non-stop, twenty-four hours a day, often for years at a
>stretch.
>What mere fanzine or convention can match _that_?
It's true! And no wonder Gary feels so much like Rip Van Winkle -- that
sounds exhausting.
Karen.
ly...@access5.digex.net
Karen Cooper <keco...@maroon.tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>GAR...@delphi.com comes back from The Long Sleep:
>
>>About 25 years ago I got away from fandom, selling all my fanzines (well,
>>almost all)
>
>So, what did you keep?
>
>>So here I come lurking in a group called ... you know ... and what do I
>>find? Mentions of Ackerman, Harry Warner (two books? I missed number two),
>
>Harry did another fanhistory. Of course I am blanking on the title, and
>a quick rummage through the books failed to locate it. Somebody pitch in
>here.
It's the hardcover edition of A WEALTH OF FABLE (an informal history of
SF fandom of the 1950s). Published in 1992 by SCIFI Press (P.O. Box
8442, Van Nuys, CA 91409). Available for $25 list (from them or other SF
booksellers like Bob Madle -- a *very* few signed copies exist, for
slightly more, from the *ahem* right source). And yes, it won the "Best
Nonfiction Book Hugo award at the 1993 Worldcon.
>>What became of
>>the Devil's Dictionary? And Fancyclopedia? and Tucker's pubs? And even
>>the stuff we published for N3F? And N3F?
>
>I can't answer any of those except that if it's Bob Tucker, he's now 80
>and I think he keeps up in one apa, but doesn't write anything else. He
>still makes it to conventions and smooothes with everybody. The Neofan's
>Guide is still out there, isn't it? Again, somebody.....
Richard and Leah Smith are contemplating an update of the NEOFAN'S GUIDE,
while SCIFI has started some activities that may (or may not) lead to a
new version of the FANCYCLOPEDIA. Time will tell. There's also some
activities afoot that might lead to research toward a book about the
1960s, but again, time will tell...
RWL
P Nielsen Hayden
>Ahh, but you've posted to a fannish-related group which means:
>YOU'VE COMMITTED FANAC!
Pish. He was committing fanac already. In fact, total gafia is fanac in its
purest form, for:
(1) It can only be committed by fans, and
(2) It is engaged in non-stop, twenty-four hours a day, often for years at a
stretch.
What mere fanzine or convention can match _that_?
-----
Chad Childers
Yes, he just posted asking for info on some obit he was doing.
>arguing about [...] where TANSTAAFL comes from
I missed that part! ob.ad: Come to our book discussion on THE MOON IS A
HARSH MISTRESS, June 18, Ann Arbor, if anybody out there doesn't know!
Or go to http://grimmy.cnidr.org/stilyagi/about.html#TANSTAAFL
>names. But has there been a dark age? People seem interested in knowing
>what various fandom slang means. Has fanspeak been lost? What became of
Nonono, some "author" wanted a list of slang and started that off.
>the lobby and talked, sang, and etc. into the wee hours. The management
>was very nice about it, bringing us blankets so we could sleep on the
Heheheh, great.
>rich brown ... Larry Tucker ... is fandom still fandom or is another thing
I saw Larry last Friday, so I know he's still around. l...@cyberspace.org is
his email address. He's somewhat gafiated from 'Fusion, because he wants to
start a sercon in Detroit (and because of his new S.O.) but he still goes to
parties & cons.
--
/* Chad Childers */ http://grimmy.cnidr.org/chad.html
Lenny Bailes
>
> rich brown ... Larry Tucker ... is fandom still fandom or is another thing
> of the same name? What is left?
>
> Shall I just roll over and go back to sleep with my dreams of the days
> gone by?
>
> Why do I feel like Rip Van Winkle?
>
> Gary Labowitz
Fandom, as we knew it is now composed completely of green-haired
bicycle messengers, who scrupulously debate the merits of reviewing
unsigned garage bands in their zines, vs. free-form poetry or
overinked cartoons. If it's any consolation to you, Gary, no one's
seen Harvey Forman around in the 30 years since his crudzine
drove you out of the Neffer Amateur Press Alliance.
David E Romm
>
> Why do I feel like Rip Van Winkle?
Because it's better than being Ichabod Crane.
> About 25 years ago I got away from fandom,
Ah, there's your mistake. You see, while fandom has roots going back
decades, it basically reinvents itself every few years. And the *New
Improved Fandom* always looks a lot like the *Old Soggy Fandom* with minor
changes in implementation details. Partly because after a decade or so
fandom pretty much figured out how to work and the techniques are still
valid, and partly because so many of the old pharts are still around to
provide good examples.
Let us know again in 2020.
--
Shockwave: Science Fiction/Science Fact. The only tactile radio program in
the galaxy. Tapes available.
"Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who
dream only by night." -- Edgar Allan Poe
Chris Croughton
>Pish. He was committing fanac already. In fact, total gafia is fanac in its
>purest form, for:
>
>(1) It can only be committed by fans, and
>
>(2) It is engaged in non-stop, twenty-four hours a day, often for years at a
>stretch.
>
>What mere fanzine or convention can match _that_?
Thank you, Patrick, that's a superb definition of the "perfect fanac".
Someday, I might try it...
***********************************************************************
* ch...@keris.demon.co.uk * *
* chr...@cix.compulink.co.uk * FIAWOL (Filking Is A Way Of Life) *
* 10001...@compuserve.com * *
***********************************************************************
Avedon Carol
> fanac".
> Someday, I might try it...
>
> ********************************************************************
> ***
> * ch...@keris.demon.co.uk
I used to be able to gafiate for weeks at a time until I got this bloody
modem. Now I rarely seem to manage it for more than 12 hours at a
stretch. *Sigh*
Avedon
P Nielsen Hayden
>I used to be able to gafiate for weeks at a time until I got this bloody
>modem. Now I rarely seem to manage it for more than 12 hours at a
>stretch. *Sigh*
Just so. It isn't like the old days, back when there were Giants in the
Earth.
We live in a diminished age.
JJSchalles
> If it's Bob Tucker, he's now 80 and I think he keeps up in one apa, but
He's still current as an on-going contributor to Science Fiction Five
Yearly, too. (#10 is due out in November, 1996. Andy Hooper and I are
going to co-guest-edit for LeeH and Jeff is going to be production
editor.)
Oh, and in case it hasn't been posted yet, Harry Warner, Jr.'s second book
is _A Wealth of Fable_, edited by Dick Lynch and published by SCIFI.
Welcome back, Gary. One of the things I like best about fandom is that
people can come back after long absences, like Vince Clarke, who is Fan
GoH at this year's worldcon.
Geri Sullivan
(still writing on Jeff's account, etc.)
mark
>
> Why do I feel like Rip Van Winkle?
>
> Have I been away at all? I guess so ... I don't recognize many of the
> what various fandom slang means. Has fanspeak been lost? What became of
> the stuff we published for N3F? And N3F?
Nah, the fanspeak stuff was somebody asking about it for a book they're
writing. And "been away"? Why shouold we change *that* much? Back in
the late sixties and early seventies, fandom was recognized as a
subculture of its own; for years now, I've been willing to argue that
it was approaching the status of "culture in its own right" (that'll
happen when 50% or more of fen were born to fen).
>
> What has become of all the fans I knew? And pros, for that matter? Are they
> all just lurking or could it be that the most progressive people I have
> even known eschew the Internet? And are people still nice enough to answer
> questions from what is now a neo?
Dunno? Who'd d'you know?
>
> Regarding one item I spotted -- someone asking about hanging in the lobby.
> One of the best times I recall was a lobbycon at the World Stf Con in
> Toronto (I believe in 70? 71?). We camped out on the balcony overlooking
'73. The Royal York, the ->greatest<- hotel that ever hosted a con. *I*
still remember the entire con, at the Hugo Award ceremony, giving them
a five-minute-long standing ovation. (I mean, I was in Rick and Louie's
room (the living room of a suite, to replace a given-out quad), and the
hotel called up and said, "hi, we know you've got a bunch of folks
crashing in your room, we accidently gave out a reserved room for these
two folks, do you have room for them?").
> the lobby and talked, sang, and etc. into the wee hours. The management
> was very nice about it, bringing us blankets so we could sleep on the
> couches and chairs there. I was there with my then small family (wife and
> young child) and have a few of the pictures I took then which I have
> managed to keep. There is Gardner Dozois, posing absurdly. There is my
Yeah, an' Gardner being thin, not round.
<snip>
> Shall I just roll over and go back to sleep with my dreams of the days
> gone by?
Nah, the major difference is an overabundance of SMOFs, and too damn many
folks, as in the mundane culture at large, who want to be entertained,
and aren't part of the show. But there's still a good bunch of us FIAWOL
types.
>
> Why do I feel like Rip Van Winkle?
>
Sure you're not just feeling canonical?
mark roth/whitworth (the Silverdragon)