**CRIT** please. An opening.
Warrick M. Locke
I thought it "broke" a bit.
No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
---------------------
Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting in
the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting and
shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next bench,
talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee and
nibbling stale sweet rolls. The mess deck was as usual, welded steel
and pea-green plastic paint, conduits and pipes and gadgets,
artificial sunlight on a scene that could have used something more
subdued. The lone messcook on midwatch, a short redhead with freckles
and a figure that showed through her whites, wanted to chat, but
finally retreated into the galley when all she could get was grunts.
Time did pass. "Reckon it's time to go," Peters observed at 0400.
"Hit the head first?" Todd suggested.
"Yeah." Peters pulled on his peacoat, slung his seabag over his
shoulder, and looked around while Todd did the same. The little
messcook stuck her head out the galley hatch and Todd gave her a
negligent wave; she didn't respond, just stood holding the hatch
coaming, serious and wide-eyed, freckles prominent.
The First Class at the brow was slumped behind the desk with his
peacoat collar turned up around his ears; he checked IDs and handed
them back with minimal conversation. They stopped at the head of the
brow to render honors, then humped their bags down the walkway, each
looking back in glances that turned furtive when the other caught him
at it.
"Just another transfer," Peters advised with determined heartiness.
"You say it," said Todd, shifting his seabag to a more comfortable
position.
They fell into step up the quay, heels thudding on the worn concrete,
free arms swinging. Unlit buildings threw back echoes of their
footsteps in the empty streets, generators and pumps and ships' power
plants making the low roar that both of them thought of as "quiet." A
cold front had come through on Saturday, bringing sapphire-clear skies
and a sharp drop in temperature, not usual for mid-November in North
Florida, and the sailors puffed a little, their breath condensing in
the chill air, as they picked their way across the field in the early
dark. Stars glittered overhead, and a bare sliver of waning moon
hovered at the eastern horizon.
A sentry stopped them, M27 at the ready, and they dumped their seabags
on the grass and reached for ID blocks as he grounded arms. The Marine
gave the blocks a cursory inspection and waved them one at a time over
his peda, meticulously comparing the resulting images to the people in
front of him with the aid of a small penlight that glared in their
eyes. "All right, you can wait here," he said, indicating a patch of
grass no different from any other in the vicinity. He spoke quietly
into a communicator as they dragged the seabags over under his
watchful eye and sat on them to wait.
There was still no gray in the eastern sky when a light-colored shape
ghosted overhead, coasting impossibly to a stop over the field and
dropping with no sound but a faint thump. Its nose was toward them,
pointing slightly to their left, and light shone from cockpit windows
and a row of ports down the side. It looked a bit like the old Space
Shuttle, except for the windows and not having black on the belly.
Peters shared a look with Todd, thinking, It ain't all that big!
Todd's eyes were wide.
"Looks like your ride's here," said the sentry. "How do you clowns
rate this?"
Peters unwound his lanky six feet, stretched a little, and shrugged.
"We push, somebody else pulls. You know how it is. Can we go now?"
"Yeah, you're on the list. Have a good trip."
"Thanks."
As they got closer the machine looked less and less familiar, like the
Grallt themselves, who could easily pass for human until you could see
their faces. It sat impossibly low, its landing gear invisible below
wings that curved more than the human version's did. There was no door
or hatch on this side; they walked around the port wing toward the
tail, finding that the wingtip came just about to eye level on Peters.
On the wingtip was a transparent bubble, maybe a running light but who
the Hell knew, mounted on a flange with cross-slotted screws.
Hell. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted screws.
----------------
--
Regards,
Ric
Dan Goodman
news:MPG.1998de876...@news.mesh.net:
> Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting in
> the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting and
> shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next bench,
> talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee and
> nibbling stale sweet rolls. The mess deck was as usual, welded steel
> and pea-green plastic paint, conduits and pipes and gadgets,
> artificial sunlight on a scene that could have used something more
> subdued. The lone messcook on midwatch, a short redhead with freckles
> and a figure that showed through her whites, wanted to chat, but
> finally retreated into the galley when all she could get was grunts.
>
The first sentence is too long for my taste; I prefer no longer than ten
words.
I think this needs more hints that this isn't here and now, before the
alien craft shows up.
--
Dan Goodman dsg...@visi.com
Journal: http://dsgood.blogspot.com
Warrick M. Locke
dsg...@visi.com says...
> Warrick M. Locke <warl...@mesh.net> wrote in
> news:MPG.1998de876...@news.mesh.net:
>
> > Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting in
> > the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting and
> > shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next bench,
> > talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee and
> > nibbling stale sweet rolls. The mess deck was as usual, welded steel
> > and pea-green plastic paint, conduits and pipes and gadgets,
> > artificial sunlight on a scene that could have used something more
> > subdued. The lone messcook on midwatch, a short redhead with freckles
> > and a figure that showed through her whites, wanted to chat, but
> > finally retreated into the galley when all she could get was grunts.
> >
> The first sentence is too long for my taste; I prefer no longer than ten
> words.
Then you definitely won't care for the rest of it. I wax
sesquipidelian once in a while.
>
> I think this needs more hints that this isn't here and now, before the
> alien craft shows up.
You may be right (and are, of course, as regards your own taste). I've
tried it several ways. Thanks for your comments.
Regards,
Ric
Dan Goodman
> In article <Xns93CDE9ADBB8...@209.98.13.60>,
> dsg...@visi.com says...
>> Warrick M. Locke <warl...@mesh.net> wrote in
>> news:MPG.1998de876...@news.mesh.net:
>>
>> > Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting in
>> > the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting
>> > and shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next
>> > bench, talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee
>> > and nibbling stale sweet rolls. The mess deck was as usual, welded
>> > steel and pea-green plastic paint, conduits and pipes and gadgets,
>> > artificial sunlight on a scene that could have used something more
>> > subdued. The lone messcook on midwatch, a short redhead with
>> > freckles and a figure that showed through her whites, wanted to
>> > chat, but finally retreated into the galley when all she could get
>> > was grunts.
>> >
>> The first sentence is too long for my taste; I prefer no longer than
>> ten words.
>
> Then you definitely won't care for the rest of it. I wax
> sesquipidelian once in a while.
That may not matter _if the first sentence is relatively short_.
>> I think this needs more hints that this isn't here and now, before
>> the alien craft shows up.
>
> You may be right (and are, of course, as regards your own taste). I've
> tried it several ways. Thanks for your comments.
>
> Regards,
> Ric
>
--
J. F. Cornwall
> Roughly 750 words, which is a bit long; my apologies. I clipped where
> I thought it "broke" a bit.
>
> No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
>
(From a reader, not a writer) The descriptions of the drab mess deck,
along with the peacoats and seabags, gives kind of an "old-time" feel to
the first part. Then the arrival of an alien ship just sorta hits you
upside the head with something completely different.
I personally would probably not go past this opening, because it just
doesn't seem to fit together. Maybe if the transition were a bit more
gradual it wouldn't have the same effect.
Anyway, just my two cents worth. :-)
Jim
Jeff Binder
> [snip]
I don't care for long sentences, so I probably wouldn't read very far.
Other people will have other opinions on this, though.
Here's one thing I noticed:
> Hell. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted screws.
This looks like a perspective problem. This is a third-person narrative,
but you seem to be writing what the characters are thinking. How about
saying something like:
Hell, thought Peters [or Todd]. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted
screws.
Graham Woodland
>In article <Xns93CDE9ADBB8...@209.98.13.60>,
>dsg...@visi.com says...
>> Warrick M. Locke <warl...@mesh.net> wrote in
>> news:MPG.1998de876...@news.mesh.net:
>>
>> > Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting in
>> > the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting and
>> > shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next bench,
>> > talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee and
>> > nibbling stale sweet rolls. The mess deck was as usual, welded steel
>> > and pea-green plastic paint, conduits and pipes and gadgets,
>> > artificial sunlight on a scene that could have used something more
>> > subdued. The lone messcook on midwatch, a short redhead with freckles
>> > and a figure that showed through her whites, wanted to chat, but
>> > finally retreated into the galley when all she could get was grunts.
>> >
>> The first sentence is too long for my taste; I prefer no longer than ten
>> words.
>
>Then you definitely won't care for the rest of it. I wax
>sesquipidelian once in a while.
Didn't bother me at all: it did what it was there for very well. It may
be a significant data-point that I'm rather given to waxing the
sesquipede[1] myself.
>>
>> I think this needs more hints that this isn't here and now, before the
>> alien craft shows up.
>
>You may be right (and are, of course, as regards your own taste). I've
>tried it several ways. Thanks for your comments.
>
I don't necessarily think so. The context in which it was published is
likely to do that much, and it's plainly not far-future. As it is, I
found the vivid here-and-nowness of the lead-up to be an effective
tension-generator.
Overall, I liked this a lot: really effective, evocative description
with nary a limp in pace. Where I do partly agree with Dan is that the
appearance of the alien craft is then kind of abrupt, in a way that
might or might not come over as rushed in the complete passage,
depending on how the story flows from there. I'm not sure if there's a
better way to do it, either.
Certainly I went through the whole thing quickly, and I'd certainly have
read on.
[1] Not, despite a certain something about its aspect, intended as a
euphemism for any form of literary masturbation...
Cheers,
--
Gray
http://www.quilpole.demon.co.uk
"She does not get eaten by the sharks at this time."
- William Goldman, _The Princess Bride_.
Brian M. Scott
<warl...@mesh.net> wrote:
[...]
It's ... solid. Even though I don't visualize, it gives me a
very strong sense of place; this is an entirely acceptable
alternative to being dumped into the deep end in the first
sentence, and I rather like the slow accumulation of hints that
Things Are Different leading up to the Grallt. Since I've read
Dan's comments, I should say that I don't have a problem with the
length of the first sentence. The thing starts so quietly,
though, that I almost find myself looking for a prologue ahead of
it!
Brian
Dan Goodman
<the.first.five.letters.of.my.l...@rpi.edu>
wrote in news:pan.2003.08.05....@rpi.edu:
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 22:20:41 -0500, Warrick M. Locke wrote:
>
>> [snip]
>
> I don't care for long sentences, so I probably wouldn't read very far.
> Other people will have other opinions on this, though.
>
> Here's one thing I noticed:
>
>> Hell. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted screws.
>
> This looks like a perspective problem. This is a third-person narrative,
> but you seem to be writing what the characters are thinking.
Permissable in tight third.
> How about
> saying something like:
>
> Hell, thought Peters [or Todd]. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted
> screws.
>
--
Brian M. Scott
<the.first.five.letters.of.my.l...@rpi.edu>
wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 22:20:41 -0500, Warrick M. Locke wrote:
[...]
>Here's one thing I noticed:
>> Hell. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted screws.
>This looks like a perspective problem. This is a third-person narrative,
>but you seem to be writing what the characters are thinking.
The transition occurs in the previous sentence, ending the
previous paragraph: 'On the wingtip was a transparent bubble,
maybe a running light but who the Hell knew, mounted on a flange
with cross-slotted screws.' That's already at least partly
inside their heads.
>How about
>saying something like:
>Hell, thought Peters [or Todd]. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted
>screws.
Unnecessary -- it's obvious what's going on -- and so less
effective (for me).
Brian
Mary Gentle
(Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
[...]
> "Just another transfer," Peters advised with determined heartiness.
>
> "You say it," said Todd, shifting his seabag to a more comfortable
> position.
I would have been inclined to put this closer to the beginning -- possibly
even _as_ the beginning.
I felt I needed to know something strange was going on, before I mentally
shelved this under 'modern military' and stopped reading (since I wasn't
in the mood for one of those). You'd have lost me long before you got to
the alien ship. ISTM you're signalling the wrong genre.
I _like_ the trefoil screws. If you wanted to start with an objective
correlative, you could put them into the first line. And then flash back
to the two guys sitting there, if you felt so inclined.
But anything, really, so long as I know there's more here than the
apparent genre.
Mary
Mary Gentle
the.first.five.letters.of.my.l...@rpi.edu (Jeff
Binder) wrote:
I took that as implied 'he thought', so it didn't jolt me. Possibly
because the third person was well established before that point.
Mary
Thomas Womack
>I thought it "broke" a bit.
I distinctly liked this. I don't mind at all about the sentence length;
it just feels part of the writing style chosen. I like the way the
tension is conveyed.
"peda" jerked slightly: PDAs have been around for long enough already
that people have informal names for them, and I've never heard them
called "pedas".
I think you mention the Grallt too early: I would have had Todd notice
the non-humanity of the pilot, rather than naming the species
outright. It doesn't work to have someone notice the slight
incongruity of trefoil- slotted screws after the omniscient-reader
knows that the vehicle is alien.
Tom
do$feratu
> Roughly 750 words, which is a bit long; my apologies. I clipped
where
> I thought it "broke" a bit.
>
> No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
>
> ---------------------
>
> Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting
in
> the forward mess deck in dress blues,
I found it odd that they would sit around for 3 hours waiting for
. . . something. Maybe a little foreshadowing that this was not
going to be just another transfer to keep it intresting. If this
was their last day on earth, don't you think they would be more
interested in the cook and the mp, the last humans they will see?
How do they feel about exchanging mistresses? (the sea for
space?)
Samuel Kleiner
> Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting in
> the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting and
> shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next bench,
> talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee and
> nibbling stale sweet rolls. The mess deck was as usual, welded steel
The first sentence does not encourage me to continue reading. The second
one does.
> and pea-green plastic paint, conduits and pipes and gadgets,
> artificial sunlight on a scene that could have used something more
> subdued. The lone messcook on midwatch, a short redhead with freckles
> and a figure that showed through her whites, wanted to chat, but
> finally retreated into the galley when all she could get was grunts.
>
> Time did pass. "Reckon it's time to go," Peters observed at 0400.
>
> "Hit the head first?" Todd suggested.
Annoying saidisms.
--
"So where's your wife?"
"I'm not sure. Maybe she ran off with someone else."
I nodded solemnly. "That's a definite possibility. You know how she is,
always running off with the mailman, or the milkman, or the boogieman."
Brian M. Scott
<do$ferat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Warrick M. Locke wrote:
[...]
>> Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting
>> in the forward mess deck in dress blues,
>I found it odd that they would sit around for 3 hours waiting for
>. . . something. Maybe a little foreshadowing that this was not
>going to be just another transfer to keep it intresting.
Seems to me that the waiting around together with the implication
that it was unusual *is* that foreshadowing.
[...]
Brian
Suzanne A Blom
Warrick M. Locke <warl...@mesh.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1998de876...@news.mesh.net...
> Roughly 750 words, which is a bit long; my apologies. I clipped where
> I thought it "broke" a bit.
>
> No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
>
> ---------------------
>
> Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting in
> the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting and
> shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next bench,
> talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee and
> nibbling stale sweet rolls. The mess deck was as usual, welded steel
> and pea-green plastic paint, conduits and pipes and gadgets,
> artificial sunlight on a scene that could have used something more
> subdued.
I hate the "as usual"; not sure I need the description of the mess deck.
Like it. Want to read more. Nice breaking place, you bastard, I believe is
the correct term.
Tim S
> Roughly 750 words, which is a bit long; my apologies. I clipped where
> I thought it "broke" a bit.
>
> No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
>
> ---------------------
>
> Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting in
> the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting and
> shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next bench,
> talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee and
> nibbling stale sweet rolls.
Good, though a little too long for one sentence.
> The mess deck was as usual,
Don't want to know this; what was _un_usual?
> welded steel
> and pea-green plastic paint, conduits and pipes and gadgets,
> artificial sunlight on a scene that could have used something more
> subdued. The lone messcook on midwatch, a short redhead with freckles
> and a figure that showed through her whites, wanted to chat, but
> finally retreated into the galley when all she could get was grunts.
I have an uneasy seasick feeling about the POV. We start off with a POV who
knows exactly who Peters and Todd are, so are presumably familiar with the
environment. We go on to one who knows the mess deck is as usual (but why
does it tell us this?) then, in the same sentence, to one for whom the mess
deck is unfamililar enough to be worth describing. Then to a POV who knows
how many messcooks there usually are on watch (more than one, I take it,
otherwise why tell us 'lone'?) but doesn't know who this one is, then
possibly into the POV of Todd and Peters ('wanted to chat' -- sort of
implying a feeling of reluctance tied to the narrator, who is identifying
itself with the POV of Peter and Todd), then immediately to one who is
possibly identifying itself with the messcook or at least being judgemental
on Peter and Todd in a way they wouldn't be on themselves ('all she could
get').
So where exactly is the narrator coming from?
I think the remainder, below is very good, apart from a few hiccups which I
note as they occur. Even the POV seems to have sorted itself out.
>
> Time did pass. "Reckon it's time to go," Peters observed at 0400.
>
> "Hit the head first?" Todd suggested.
>
> "Yeah." Peters pulled on his peacoat, slung his seabag over his
> shoulder, and looked around while Todd did the same. The little
> messcook stuck her head out the galley hatch and Todd gave her a
> negligent wave; she didn't respond, just stood holding the hatch
> coaming, serious and wide-eyed, freckles prominent.
>
> The First Class at the brow was slumped behind the desk with his
> peacoat collar turned up around his ears; he checked IDs and handed
> them back with minimal conversation. They stopped at the head of the
> brow to render honors, then humped their bags down the walkway, each
> looking back in glances that turned furtive when the other caught him
> at it.
>
> "Just another transfer," Peters advised with determined heartiness.
>
> "You say it," said Todd, shifting his seabag to a more comfortable
> position.
>
> They fell into step up the quay, heels thudding on the worn concrete,
> free arms swinging. Unlit buildings threw back echoes of their
Thrown a bit by the jump from visual ('unlit') to aural ('echoes') in a
structure that seems to suggest there is a causal link between them.
> footsteps in the empty streets, generators and pumps and ships' power
> plants making the low roar that both of them thought of as "quiet." A
> cold front had come through on Saturday, bringing sapphire-clear skies
> and a sharp drop in temperature,
The buildings are unlit -- and the sky is blue...so daytime...so why do we
need to be told the buildings are unlit...
> not usual for mid-November in North
> Florida, and the sailors puffed a little, their breath condensing in
> the chill air, as they picked their way across the field in the early
> dark. Stars glittered overhead, and a bare sliver of waning moon
> hovered at the eastern horizon.
>
Oh, so not daytime, which makes sense at 5am. How can there be
'sapphire-clear skies' at night? Or was that a sudden jump from the present
to yesterday and back?
> A sentry stopped them, M27 at the ready, and they dumped their seabags
> on the grass and reached for ID blocks as he grounded arms. The Marine
> gave the blocks a cursory inspection and waved them one at a time over
> his peda, meticulously comparing the resulting images to the people in
> front of him with the aid of a small penlight that glared in their
> eyes. "All right, you can wait here," he said, indicating a patch of
> grass no different from any other in the vicinity. He spoke quietly
> into a communicator as they dragged the seabags over under his
> watchful eye and sat on them to wait.
>
> There was still no gray in the eastern sky when a light-colored shape
> ghosted overhead, coasting impossibly to a stop over the field and
> dropping with no sound but a faint thump. Its nose was toward them,
> pointing slightly to their left, and light shone from cockpit windows
> and a row of ports down the side. It looked a bit like the old Space
> Shuttle, except for the windows and not having black on the belly.
And being much much much smaller and quieter and slower and in fact utterly
unlike the space shuttle, except insofar as it is possibly a rocket with
wings, or possibly not...
> Peters shared a look with Todd, thinking, It ain't all that big!
> Todd's eyes were wide.
>
> "Looks like your ride's here," said the sentry. "How do you clowns
> rate this?"
>
> Peters unwound his lanky six feet, stretched a little, and shrugged.
> "We push, somebody else pulls. You know how it is. Can we go now?"
>
> "Yeah, you're on the list. Have a good trip."
>
> "Thanks."
>
> As they got closer the machine looked less and less familiar, like the
> Grallt themselves, who could easily pass for human until you could see
> their faces.
Nice, apart from my general aversion to humanoid aliens.
> It sat impossibly low, its landing gear invisible below
> wings that curved more than the human version's did. There was no door
> or hatch on this side; they walked around the port wing toward the
> tail, finding that the wingtip came just about to eye level on Peters.
> On the wingtip was a transparent bubble, maybe a running light but who
> the Hell knew, mounted on a flange with cross-slotted screws.
>
> Hell. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted screws.
Nice, except would they _casually_ notice that the screws were
cross-slotted? Why not delete the first occurrence of 'cross-slotted'?
Tim
Tim S
> Warrick M. Locke wrote:
>
>> Roughly 750 words, which is a bit long; my apologies. I clipped where
>> I thought it "broke" a bit.
>>
>> No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
>>
>
> (From a reader, not a writer) The descriptions of the drab mess deck,
> along with the peacoats and seabags, gives kind of an "old-time" feel to
> the first part. Then the arrival of an alien ship just sorta hits you
> upside the head with something completely different.
>
> I personally would probably not go past this opening, because it just
> doesn't seem to fit together. Maybe if the transition were a bit more
> gradual it wouldn't have the same effect.
>
> Anyway, just my two cents worth. :-)
Just in case you're in danger of thinking there's any kind of consensus
achieveable on any given piece of writing, I particularly liked the way the
old familiar scene turned out to contain an alien spaceship. It produces a
very engaging 'the exotic is normal, here' feel. Also, I like incongruity.
Tim
Warrick M. Locke
says...
encouraging that it's at least possible.
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
says...
derision by all critters concerned along about the first revision or
so. Looking back on it now, I blush to have ever committed it.
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
mary_...@cix.co.uk says...
extremely long on word count; if I put more foreshadowing in the first
paragraph, something else will have to go.
Mary, I don't think you're my target audience -- I like things that
start a bit slow and build, so that's what I wrote; you like to open
with an explosion, real or figurative. I read those, too, with
enjoyment, but I know for sure that I'm not capable of keeping up the
pace well enough to support that kind of opening.
I will be trying to get the proper phrase on P. 93, though :-)
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
two...@chiark.greenend.org.uk says...
> In article <MPG.1998de876...@news.mesh.net>,
> Warrick M. Locke <warl...@mesh.net> wrote:
> >Roughly 750 words, which is a bit long; my apologies. I clipped where
> >I thought it "broke" a bit.
>
> I distinctly liked this. I don't mind at all about the sentence length;
> it just feels part of the writing style chosen. I like the way the
> tension is conveyed.
>
> "peda" jerked slightly: PDAs have been around for long enough already
> that people have informal names for them, and I've never heard them
> called "pedas".
Yes. The genesis of the story was a long time ago, at least five
years; PDAs weren't common items then, and I made up the neologism. It
has to go. Fortunately it isn't used often.
Can you suggest something else?
>
> I think you mention the Grallt too early: I would have had Todd notice
> the non-humanity of the pilot, rather than naming the species
> outright. It doesn't work to have someone notice the slight
> incongruity of trefoil- slotted screws after the omniscient-reader
> knows that the vehicle is alien.
>
> Tom
>
Thanks for commenting!
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
says...
Thanks, both.
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
says...
>
> Warrick M. Locke <warl...@mesh.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1998de876...@news.mesh.net...
> > Roughly 750 words, which is a bit long; my apologies. I clipped where
> > I thought it "broke" a bit.
> >
> > No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
> >
> > ---------------------
> >
> > Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting in
> > the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting and
> > shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next bench,
> > talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee and
> > nibbling stale sweet rolls. The mess deck was as usual, welded steel
> > and pea-green plastic paint, conduits and pipes and gadgets,
> > artificial sunlight on a scene that could have used something more
> > subdued.
>
> I hate the "as usual"; not sure I need the description of the mess deck.
In the following section, lots of things look really familiar until
they're examined closely; the two guys are continually being brought
up short by their assumptions. I wanted to place them in humdrum
surroundings, tensely aware that those surroundings were about to
change, and noticing things more or less at random; that's what
happens to me when big changes are in the offing.
> >
> Like it. Want to read more. Nice breaking place, you bastard, I believe is
> the correct term.
>
>
>
You do say the nicest things :-)
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk says...
>
> Just in case you're in danger of thinking there's any kind of consensus
> achieveable on any given piece of writing, I particularly liked the way the
> old familiar scene turned out to contain an alien spaceship. It produces a
> very engaging 'the exotic is normal, here' feel. Also, I like incongruity.
>
> Tim
>
>
consensus is that there's something wrong with the first paragraph;
you thought it was POV, some others didn't like one or the other of
the sentences, the sailors didn't pay attention to the (female) mess
cook, etc. So whatever the right way to fix it is, the first paragraph
is something of a problem, right?
Thanks for the compliment, by the way. The "familiar scene contains a
jarring element" is what I was trying for. There's more farther in.
--
Regards,
Ric
Mary Gentle
(Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
I wasn't thinking of adding anything, necessarily, just literally shifting
the placing of a couple of sentences.
> Mary, I don't think you're my target audience -- I like things that
> start a bit slow and build, so that's what I wrote; you like to open
> with an explosion, real or figurative. I read those, too, with
> enjoyment, but I know for sure that I'm not capable of keeping up the
> pace well enough to support that kind of opening.
Yes, it's possible it's just not to my taste.
There /are/ long slow openings that I do like to read -- now I try to
think of examples, memory fails me, naturally! (And I've committed
non-explosive openings, too, so ner. :) Oh, hang on -- Peake, the Titus
books! Now they don't exactly open snappily...
What bothers me with this passage is just that, if it hadn't been on this
group, I wouldn't have assumed there was anything odd in it -- not until I
was way in -- and there wasn't enough in the _apparent_ genre to hook me
to read that far in. I don't read a lot of straight military stuff, and I
found there was too much of it before I got to hints of Other.
I don't know how many other readers would think that, though. It may well
be just me.
> I will be trying to get the proper phrase on P. 93, though :-)
You have no pity for my credit card... <whimper>
;-)
Mary
Warrick M. Locke
mary_...@cix.co.uk says...
> In article <MPG.1999ed507...@news.mesh.net>, warl...@mesh.net
> (Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
>
> > >
> > Ah. I'll have to think on that some more. Problem is, I'm already
> > extremely long on word count; if I put more foreshadowing in the first
> > paragraph, something else will have to go.
>
> I wasn't thinking of adding anything, necessarily, just literally shifting
> the placing of a couple of sentences.
>
> > Mary, I don't think you're my target audience -- I like things that
> > start a bit slow and build, so that's what I wrote; you like to open
> > with an explosion, real or figurative. I read those, too, with
> > enjoyment, but I know for sure that I'm not capable of keeping up the
> > pace well enough to support that kind of opening.
>
> Yes, it's possible it's just not to my taste.
>
> There /are/ long slow openings that I do like to read -- now I try to
> think of examples, memory fails me, naturally! (And I've committed
> non-explosive openings, too, so ner. :) Oh, hang on -- Peake, the Titus
> books! Now they don't exactly open snappily...
>
> What bothers me with this passage is just that, if it hadn't been on this
> group, I wouldn't have assumed there was anything odd in it -- not until I
> was way in -- and there wasn't enough in the _apparent_ genre to hook me
> to read that far in. I don't read a lot of straight military stuff, and I
> found there was too much of it before I got to hints of Other.
That's one of the reasons I posted this here. All of my first readers
have military backgrounds or read MilSF as their first choice (or
both), and this seemed to go down rather well with _them_. I wanted
other reactions, and yours is definitely a strong data point.
It isn't, or tries not to be, bog-standard MilSF; there are one or two
exploding spaceships, but they aren't the point. For one thing,
both the protagonist, Peters, and his sidekick, Todd, are extremely
junior, and this is where the conflict in the first third comes from.
No white berets for this pair!
Hm. Maybe I'll post the Sex Scene next :-)
>
> I don't know how many other readers would think that, though. It may well
> be just me.
>
> > I will be trying to get the proper phrase on P. 93, though :-)
>
> You have no pity for my credit card... <whimper>
Hey, I've gotta get it in shape, then I've gotta sell it. By that time
your residuals from Ash -- you _did_ get them by the pound, didn't
you? -- will be such that there'll be no pain :-)
--
Regards,
Ric
Suzanne A Blom
> In article <BB55C9EF.1F6EA%T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk>,
> T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk says...
> >
> > Just in case you're in danger of thinking there's any kind of consensus
> > achieveable on any given piece of writing, I particularly liked the way
the
> > old familiar scene turned out to contain an alien spaceship. It produces
a
> > very engaging 'the exotic is normal, here' feel. Also, I like
incongruity.
> >
> >
> consensus is that there's something wrong with the first paragraph;
> you thought it was POV, some others didn't like one or the other of
> the sentences, the sailors didn't pay attention to the (female) mess
> cook, etc. So whatever the right way to fix it is, the first paragraph
> is something of a problem, right?
>
the first paragraph. What were we to do? We had to say something. Gush,
gush only is no fun.
Suzanne A Blom
> In article <vj03q37...@corp.supernews.com>, sue...@execpc.com
> says...
> >
> > Warrick M. Locke <warl...@mesh.net> wrote in message
> > news:MPG.1998de876...@news.mesh.net...
> > > Roughly 750 words, which is a bit long; my apologies. I clipped where
> > > I thought it "broke" a bit.
> > >
> > > No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
> > >
> > > ---------------------
> > >
> > > Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting in
> > > the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting and
> > > shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next bench,
> > > talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee and
> > > nibbling stale sweet rolls. The mess deck was as usual, welded steel
> > > and pea-green plastic paint, conduits and pipes and gadgets,
> > > artificial sunlight on a scene that could have used something more
> > > subdued.
> >
> > I hate the "as usual"; not sure I need the description of the mess deck.
>
> In the following section, lots of things look really familiar until
> they're examined closely; the two guys are continually being brought
> up short by their assumptions. I wanted to place them in humdrum
> surroundings, tensely aware that those surroundings were about to
> change, and noticing things more or less at random; that's what
> happens to me when big changes are in the offing.
Then I need it highlighted a bit more so I catch that in particular.
I did get the rest of the foreshadowing I believe you wanted.
sharkey
>
> > Hell. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted screws.
>
> Nice, except would they _casually_ notice that the screws were
> cross-slotted? Why not delete the first occurrence of 'cross-slotted'?
Also, note that 3-way slotted screws aren't exactly rare down here
on Earth ... google for "Triwing bit". The ongoing attempts to make a
screw which can be opened by servicepeople but not by DIYfolk have
led to a bizarre profusion of specialty screw heads ...
-----sharks
Warrick M. Locke
says...
The biggest impetus for oddball screwheads is from manufacturers. A
screwhead that, e.g., sticks to the driver until it's in place, self-
centers, amd reliably accepts the torque necessary to drive it, is a
sort of Holy Grail. That's the reason for Torx: it stays on the driver
point better than most others, and accepts torque well. Hex socket is
cheaper to make but doesn't take the torque; square socket is cheaper
yet and takes torque well, but when it fails it fails *bad*. Straight
slots don't stay on the driver, don't self-center, and are lousy for
accepting torque. When they declare me Emperor of the World, my first
decree will declare straight-slotted screws illegal. I may not insist
on the death penalty until the third infraction :-)
On the original point -- for airplanes, cross-slotted screws (almost
always Phillips) are the default. If there's a screw on an airplane,
it probably has a Phillips head. A person who's around airplanes
regularly would expect that, and would need a second look to note the
odd slot arrangement. Embraer, in Brazil, makes airplanes identical to
Piper's, but all the screws are straight-slotted. It took me several
minutes to spot what was odd about a perfectly normal Aztec...
--
Regards,
Ric
sharkey
>
> When they declare me Emperor of the World, my first
> decree will declare straight-slotted screws illegal. I may not insist
> on the death penalty until the third infraction :-)
Yup, they're the first thing to go on any motorcycle I'm playing
with. The second thing to go is Phillips heads ... Posidrives
are okay, but hex or inhex (Allen keys) are far far less likely
to get damaged in my experience ...
Anyway, my point was that (for me) it's an Unusual Stuff signifier,
but not necessarily a High Weirdness signifier, because the first
thing it makes me think of is consumer goods.
If aliens really wanted to weird me out, they'd have to go for
left-handed threads ;-). But to be honest, I'd be wondering
why they didn't just weld it with their Sonic Screwdrivers :-)
-----sharks
Neil Barnes
news:MPG.1999edbf2...@news.mesh.net:
> In article <o7t*gm...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
> two...@chiark.greenend.org.uk says...
>> "peda" jerked slightly: PDAs have been around for long enough
>> already that people have informal names for them, and I've
>> never heard them called "pedas".
>
> Yes. The genesis of the story was a long time ago, at least
> five years; PDAs weren't common items then, and I made up the
> neologism. It has to go. Fortunately it isn't used often.
>
> Can you suggest something else?
'Organiser' or, around me, 'disorganiser'.
Neil
--
note - the email address in this message is valid but the
signal to noise ratio approaches -40dB. A more useful address
is a similar account at ntlworld-fullstop-com.
Grey Yuen
Been a long time since I visitedto this newsgroup. :)
Just some humble words.. I think the saidism effect is quite glaring.
And since there're only two of them, it might not even be necessary to
tag the quotes.
>Time did pass. "Reckon it's time to go," Peters observed at 0400.
>
>"Hit the head first?" Todd suggested.
>
>
>"Just another transfer," Peters advised with determined heartiness.
>
>"You say it," said Todd, shifting his seabag to a more comfortable
>position.
>
>
Grey (my first draft is STILL not finished)
Thomas Womack
Warrick M. Locke <warl...@mesh.net> wrote:
>Yes. The genesis of the story was a long time ago, at least five
>years; PDAs weren't common items then, and I made up the neologism. It
>has to go. Fortunately it isn't used often.
>
>Can you suggest something else?
I usually hear them called "handhelds".
Tom
Khiem Tran
Hi Ric!
Just to be clear on this... Did Peters and Todd KNOW it was an alien
ship before they saw the screws?
I assumed they did because of the narration, but if they did why would
they be surprised by the screws? (Unless, of course, they were
planning to steal a piece of alien technology and had only thought to
bring along Earth screwdrivers...)
If they didn't, then that puts a whole new spin on things (and
possibly a much more interesting one). It would at least explain why
the aliens look like us and have spaceships like us (i.e. they're
trying to do it on purpose, but they get little things wrongs. So
which was it?
Still scratching my head,
Khiem.
Pam Phillips
> news:MPG.1998de876...@news.mesh.net:
>
>> Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting in
>> the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting and
>> shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next bench,
>> talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee and
>> nibbling stale sweet rolls.
Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns93CDE9ADBB8...@209.98.13.60:
> The first sentence is too long for my taste; I prefer no longer than ten
> words.
>
If you don't mind, I'd like to throw in my own two cents.
I think the problem with the first sentence is not that's too long, but
that it wanders. After the main clause introducing Peters and Todd, the
subjects of the next two phrases are their gear, and then the implied
subject of the last three phrases drops back to the two men.
Aside than that, I don't have much to add that hasn't been said by others.
Pam
Mary Gentle
(Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
Trouble is, if I'm reading Mil stuff these days, it tends to be
non-fiction. 'Twas not always so...
>
> It isn't, or tries not to be, bog-standard MilSF; there are one or two
> exploding spaceships, but they aren't the point. For one thing,
> both the protagonist, Peters, and his sidekick, Todd, are extremely
> junior, and this is where the conflict in the first third comes from.
> No white berets for this pair!
If not bog-standard MilSF, where do you want to put it, ideally?
>
> Hm. Maybe I'll post the Sex Scene next :-)
Ooh, yes please! The phrase "trefoil screws" suddenly takes on a whole
new meaning...
> >
> > I don't know how many other readers would think that, though. It may
> > well be just me.
> >
> > > I will be trying to get the proper phrase on P. 93, though :-)
> >
> > You have no pity for my credit card... <whimper>
>
> Hey, I've gotta get it in shape, then I've gotta sell it. By that time
> your residuals from Ash -- you _did_ get them by the pound, didn't
> you? -- will be such that there'll be no pain :-)
Ah, I'll plug in a purchase between buying the yacht and the penthouse
flat...
I'll remind you of the joys of a writer's life when you get a look at
/your/ royalty statements. :)
Mary
Tim S
> In article <BB55C9EF.1F6EA%T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk>,
> T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk says...
>>
>> Just in case you're in danger of thinking there's any kind of consensus
>> achieveable on any given piece of writing, I particularly liked the way the
>> old familiar scene turned out to contain an alien spaceship. It produces a
>> very engaging 'the exotic is normal, here' feel. Also, I like incongruity.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
> I had no expectation of consensus. It does seem that the meta-
> consensus is that there's something wrong with the first paragraph;
> you thought it was POV, some others didn't like one or the other of
> the sentences, the sailors didn't pay attention to the (female) mess
> cook, etc. So whatever the right way to fix it is, the first paragraph
> is something of a problem, right?
You might be onto something there... :-)
Particularly since the phrase "as usual" and the lack of attention to the
mess cook were both things that jumped out at me (as POV problems, as it
happened, but they could be interpreted as a different sort of problem
depending on how you go about fixing it).
>
> Thanks for the compliment, by the way. The "familiar scene contains a
> jarring element" is what I was trying for. There's more farther in.
You're welcome.
Tim
Tim S
> In article <MPG.1999ed507...@news.mesh.net>, warl...@mesh.net
> (Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
>
<snip>
>
>> Mary, I don't think you're my target audience -- I like things that
>> start a bit slow and build, so that's what I wrote; you like to open
>> with an explosion, real or figurative. I read those, too, with
>> enjoyment, but I know for sure that I'm not capable of keeping up the
>> pace well enough to support that kind of opening.
>
> Yes, it's possible it's just not to my taste.
>
> There /are/ long slow openings that I do like to read -- now I try to
> think of examples, memory fails me, naturally! (And I've committed
> non-explosive openings, too, so ner. :) Oh, hang on -- Peake, the Titus
> books! Now they don't exactly open snappily...
>
> What bothers me with this passage is just that, if it hadn't been on this
> group, I wouldn't have assumed there was anything odd in it -- not until I
> was way in -- and there wasn't enough in the _apparent_ genre to hook me
> to read that far in. I don't read a lot of straight military stuff, and I
> found there was too much of it before I got to hints of Other.
I don't read much military stuff either, but since it was shelved with the
sf I started thinking, 'Hmm, this looks like straight seafaring tales. I
wonder what the big surprise will be.'
Tim
Tim S
You can know intellectually that things are different and still be surprised
by the details.
Somebody on rasfc not long ago was taken aback to learn that light bulbs in
the UK are mostly bayonet-fitting not screw-fitting, even though they
already knew perfectly well that the UK isn't the same as America.
Tim
Julie Pascal
"Warrick M. Locke" <warl...@mesh.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1998de876...@news.mesh.net...
> Roughly 750 words, which is a bit long; my apologies. I clipped where
> I thought it "broke" a bit.
>
> No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
>
> ---------------------
>
> the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting and
> shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next bench,
> talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee and
> and pea-green plastic paint, conduits and pipes and gadgets,
> artificial sunlight on a scene that could have used something more
> and a figure that showed through her whites, wanted to chat, but
> finally retreated into the galley when all she could get was grunts.
I had to pause before the end of the first sentance to take a
breath, lost my place and had to find it back. :-) I don't mind long
sentences but at "sipping" I had to scan back to reaffirm the
subject.
Oh, and any navy food I've ever had was pretty good.
I'm having trouble picturing the mess deck. The "as usual"
made me wonder if there was something different about
this mess deck than the only one I've ever been in. The welded
steel, paint, conduits and pipes is what I remember and I don't
mind at all being reminded. The "artificial sunlight" made me
think of holograhic ceilings and computer controlled decor.
The female messcook made me trip.
I did get the idea that what ever was happening at 0500 was enough
to make sleep a bit difficult.
> Time did pass. "Reckon it's time to go," Peters observed at 0400.
>
> "Hit the head first?" Todd suggested.
>
> "Yeah." Peters pulled on his peacoat, slung his seabag over his
> shoulder, and looked around while Todd did the same. The little
> messcook stuck her head out the galley hatch and Todd gave her a
> negligent wave; she didn't respond, just stood holding the hatch
> coaming, serious and wide-eyed, freckles prominent.
For some reason I like the idea of this person as a gangly
boy just out of high school, red hair and freckles and all.
Opie.
> The First Class at the brow was slumped behind the desk with his
> peacoat collar turned up around his ears; he checked IDs and handed
> them back with minimal conversation. They stopped at the head of the
> brow to render honors, then humped their bags down the walkway, each
> looking back in glances that turned furtive when the other caught him
> at it.
>
> "Just another transfer," Peters advised with determined heartiness.
>
> "You say it," said Todd, shifting his seabag to a more comfortable
> position.
>
> They fell into step up the quay, heels thudding on the worn concrete,
> free arms swinging. Unlit buildings threw back echoes of their
> footsteps in the empty streets, generators and pumps and ships' power
> plants making the low roar that both of them thought of as "quiet." A
> cold front had come through on Saturday, bringing sapphire-clear skies
> and a sharp drop in temperature, not usual for mid-November in North
> Florida, and the sailors puffed a little, their breath condensing in
> the chill air, as they picked their way across the field in the early
> dark. Stars glittered overhead, and a bare sliver of waning moon
> hovered at the eastern horizon.
For what it's worth...0500 skies can definately be a deep
sapphire blue...stars and moon and all. I'm guessing that since
you've placed the moon in a particular spot that you've done it
on purpose?
> A sentry stopped them, M27 at the ready, and they dumped their seabags
> on the grass and reached for ID blocks as he grounded arms. The Marine
> gave the blocks a cursory inspection and waved them one at a time over
> his peda, meticulously comparing the resulting images to the people in
> front of him with the aid of a small penlight that glared in their
> eyes. "All right, you can wait here," he said, indicating a patch of
> grass no different from any other in the vicinity. He spoke quietly
> into a communicator as they dragged the seabags over under his
> watchful eye and sat on them to wait.
>
> There was still no gray in the eastern sky when a light-colored shape
> ghosted overhead, coasting impossibly to a stop over the field and
> dropping with no sound but a faint thump. Its nose was toward them,
> pointing slightly to their left, and light shone from cockpit windows
> and a row of ports down the side. It looked a bit like the old Space
> Shuttle, except for the windows and not having black on the belly.
> Peters shared a look with Todd, thinking, It ain't all that big!
> Todd's eyes were wide.
>
> "Looks like your ride's here," said the sentry. "How do you clowns
> rate this?"
The cook seemed concerned. Peters and Todd are at least
on edge and serious. The sentry sounds like they got the berth
everyone wants.
> Peters unwound his lanky six feet, stretched a little, and shrugged.
> "We push, somebody else pulls. You know how it is. Can we go now?"
I don't know exactly what Peters means by this but I interpret
it as making a reply without answering the question.
> "Yeah, you're on the list. Have a good trip."
>
> "Thanks."
>
> As they got closer the machine looked less and less familiar, like the
> Grallt themselves, who could easily pass for human until you could see
> their faces. It sat impossibly low, its landing gear invisible below
> wings that curved more than the human version's did. There was no door
> or hatch on this side; they walked around the port wing toward the
> tail, finding that the wingtip came just about to eye level on Peters.
> On the wingtip was a transparent bubble, maybe a running light but who
> the Hell knew, mounted on a flange with cross-slotted screws.
>
> Hell. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted screws.
Overall I liked it quite a lot. I don't think I'd want to jump in
any faster. I feel safe with you...that you're setting the scene
with enough detail and care that you aren't going to let me down
later by having things not make sense.
One point in retrospect...what rank are they? And when do
I find out? I'm thinking enlisted... late 20's. I dont' know
why late 20's *shrug*. Not in their first enlistment anyway.
--Julie
Warrick M. Locke
>
> "Warrick M. Locke" <warl...@mesh.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1998de876...@news.mesh.net...
> > Roughly 750 words, which is a bit long; my apologies. I clipped where
> > I thought it "broke" a bit.
> >
> > No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
> >
> > ---------------------
> >
>
> breath, lost my place and had to find it back. :-) I don't mind long
> sentences but at "sipping" I had to scan back to reaffirm the
> subject.
>
> Oh, and any navy food I've ever had was pretty good.
The Navy food I had was OK; of course I was working pretty hard and
hungry :-)
I think I'm leaving the sentence alone.
>
> I'm having trouble picturing the mess deck. The "as usual"
> made me wonder if there was something different about
> this mess deck than the only one I've ever been in. The welded
> steel, paint, conduits and pipes is what I remember and I don't
> mind at all being reminded. The "artificial sunlight" made me
> think of holograhic ceilings and computer controlled decor.
It's one of the things that's supposed to clue you that it isn't
"right now" -- in fact, it's 2053. The 17th of November, in fact. By
my calculations, that should be three days before the New Moon.
Not long ago, the President of one of the companies that makes LEDs
made a speech to a group of people whose interest is lighting -- house
lighting, offices, workplaces, etc. He opened the speech by pointing
to the ceiling and saying, "that's all going to go away." The mess
deck is illuminated by rectangular panels of white-light LEDs whose
spectrum is adjusted to be very close to that of early-afternoon
sunlight on a clear summer day in the mid-latitudes. Tell me I can put
that in without it being an "infodump" :-)
The scene of the two men, with seabags over their shoulders, walking
down one of the streets at Mayport Naval Station with the nearly-waned
Old Moon over their shoulders, on their way to meet the alien ship,
was the image that *started* this story in my mind.
> The female messcook made me trip.
>
[..]
> > negligent wave; she didn't respond, just stood holding the hatch
> > coaming, serious and wide-eyed, freckles prominent.
>
> For some reason I like the idea of this person as a gangly
> boy just out of high school, red hair and freckles and all.
> Opie.
Yes, but female and not very "pretty" in the adolescent male fantasy
sense. I've made up backstory details for her and a lot of the other
characters -- her name is Lena Massey; she's 19, a Seaman 1st (E-3);
she's from Louisiana (Mandell, in fact); she's got the midwatch on the
mess deck as NJP for PDA, to wit, kissing her boyfriend while in
uniform... it goes on. I've got nine cats and a very inefficient
vacuum cleaner :-)
> > "Just another transfer," Peters advised with determined heartiness.
> >
> > "You say it," said Todd, shifting his seabag to a more comfortable
> > position.
Pursuant to Mary's suggestion, these two sentences now come first,
before what was the first paragraph here. It works! [I deleted the
line about the seabag.]
>
> For what it's worth...0500 skies can definately be a deep
> sapphire blue...stars and moon and all. I'm guessing that since
> you've placed the moon in a particular spot that you've done it
> on purpose?
Yes, I know. See above.
> > "Looks like your ride's here," said the sentry. "How do you clowns
> > rate this?"
>
> The cook seemed concerned. Peters and Todd are at least
> on edge and serious. The sentry sounds like they got the berth
> everyone wants.
>
> > Peters unwound his lanky six feet, stretched a little, and shrugged.
> > "We push, somebody else pulls. You know how it is. Can we go now?"
>
> I don't know exactly what Peters means by this but I interpret
> it as making a reply without answering the question.
I don't know how to explain it. If you've never been in the military
it probably makes little or no sense; if you have it probably passed
without notice... I put several things like that in for flavor,
details to establish that to some extent I know what I'm talking
about.
>
> Overall I liked it quite a lot. I don't think I'd want to jump in
> any faster. I feel safe with you...that you're setting the scene
> with enough detail and care that you aren't going to let me down
> later by having things not make sense.
Thanks.
> One point in retrospect...what rank are they? And when do
> I find out? I'm thinking enlisted... late 20's. I dont' know
> why late 20's *shrug*. Not in their first enlistment anyway.
Enlisted, late 20s is exactly right. When the story opens, Peters is
28, Todd is 26. Peters is a Second Class (E5 to most of you) and Todd
is a Third Class (E4). This is the central fact that creates the
tension for the main line of the story.
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
says...
They do have left-handed threads (and are left-handed themselves.) The
lack of Sonic Screwdrivers is a plot point :-)
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
nguyen_k...@yahoo.com.au says...
> sharkey <sha...@zoic.org> wrote in message news:<slrnbj1578....@killjoy.zoic.org>...
> > Sayeth Warrick M Locke <warl...@mesh.net>:
> > >
> > > When they declare me Emperor of the World, my first
> > > decree will declare straight-slotted screws illegal. I may not insist
> > > on the death penalty until the third infraction :-)
> >
> > Yup, they're the first thing to go on any motorcycle I'm playing
> > with. The second thing to go is Phillips heads ... Posidrives
> > are okay, but hex or inhex (Allen keys) are far far less likely
> > to get damaged in my experience ...
> >
> > Anyway, my point was that (for me) it's an Unusual Stuff signifier,
> > but not necessarily a High Weirdness signifier, because the first
> > thing it makes me think of is consumer goods.
> >
> > If aliens really wanted to weird me out, they'd have to go for
> > left-handed threads ;-). But to be honest, I'd be wondering
> > why they didn't just weld it with their Sonic Screwdrivers :-)
> >
> > -----sharks
>
>
> Hi Ric!
>
> Just to be clear on this... Did Peters and Todd KNOW it was an alien
> ship before they saw the screws?
>
> I assumed they did because of the narration, but if they did why would
> they be surprised by the screws? (Unless, of course, they were
> planning to steal a piece of alien technology and had only thought to
> bring along Earth screwdrivers...)
Yes, they knew it would be *something* alien. The specific vehicle is,
well, not a surprise per se, but they didn't really know what to
expect.
As I've said elsewhere, for Americans and most Europeans who know
airplanes, Phillips screws are the unmarked case. Peters notes the
screws because at first glance they're familiar -- but on the second
look they're not the kind they use in Kansas :-)
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
two...@chiark.greenend.org.uk says...
it isn't one of the stars of the show anyway, just background.
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
mary_...@cix.co.uk says...
> In article <MPG.199a028fe...@news.mesh.net>, warl...@mesh.net
> (Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
>
> > In article <memo.2003080...@roxanne.morgan.ntlworld.com>,
> > mary_...@cix.co.uk says...
> > > In article <MPG.1999ed507...@news.mesh.net>,
> > > warl...@mesh.net (Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > Ah. I'll have to think on that some more. Problem is, I'm already
> > > > extremely long on word count; if I put more foreshadowing in the
> > > > first paragraph, something else will have to go.
> > >
> > > I wasn't thinking of adding anything, necessarily, just literally
> > > shifting the placing of a couple of sentences.
Bingo!
And thank you very much. "Just another transfer..." is now the first
line. It works perfectly, IMO.
> > That's one of the reasons I posted this here. All of my first readers
> > have military backgrounds or read MilSF as their first choice (or
> > both), and this seemed to go down rather well with _them_. I wanted
> > other reactions, and yours is definitely a strong data point.
>
> Trouble is, if I'm reading Mil stuff these days, it tends to be
> non-fiction. 'Twas not always so...
> >
> > It isn't, or tries not to be, bog-standard MilSF; there are one or two
> > exploding spaceships, but they aren't the point. For one thing,
> > both the protagonist, Peters, and his sidekick, Todd, are extremely
> > junior, and this is where the conflict in the first third comes from.
> > No white berets for this pair!
>
> If not bog-standard MilSF, where do you want to put it, ideally?
Comedy of (military) manners in a MilSF setting.
Most of the tension, at least in the first part, comes from the fact
that Peters and Todd are _extremely_ junior. They're dumped into a
situation that, in something from Weber or even Stirling, would be
handled by officers, though perhaps junior ones. They aren't
comfortable with it, but manage to cope. Their seniors are surprised
and unpleased with the result...
> >
> > Hm. Maybe I'll post the Sex Scene next :-)
>
> Ooh, yes please! The phrase "trefoil screws" suddenly takes on a whole
> new meaning...
Down, girl :-)
I have to convert it to ASCII first. That part has been sitting on the
disk for a while.
> > >
> > > I don't know how many other readers would think that, though. It may
> > > well be just me.
> > >
> > > > I will be trying to get the proper phrase on P. 93, though :-)
> > >
> > > You have no pity for my credit card... <whimper>
> >
> > Hey, I've gotta get it in shape, then I've gotta sell it. By that time
> > your residuals from Ash -- you _did_ get them by the pound, didn't
> > you? -- will be such that there'll be no pain :-)
>
> Ah, I'll plug in a purchase between buying the yacht and the penthouse
> flat...
>
> I'll remind you of the joys of a writer's life when you get a look at
> /your/ royalty statements. :)
I take it you _didn't_ get your royalties paid by the pound, or
possibly by the stump :-)
No, I have no illusions about payment levels. If I can sell it at all
I'll be pleased as Punch; the money sounds like just about enough to
clear one of my credit cards. But I owe you a drink for the bit about
the first line -- if we're ever in sufficient propinquity :-)
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
A problem remains: the bit about the female messcook, and the sailors
not paying attention when they'll be away from women for a while, has
bogged several people down, not all of them here.
Part of the reason the guys don't react is that, at this point in the
story, they expect this to be a short-term assignment -- ninety days
or so. The title of the story is _Temporary Duty_; is that sufficient
(in retrospect) or do I need to find a way to work that in somewhere
early?
--
Regards,
Ric
Dan Goodman
news:MPG.199b76361...@news.mesh.net:
> In article <slrnbj1578....@killjoy.zoic.org>, sha...@zoic.org
> says...
>> If aliens really wanted to weird me out, they'd have to go for
>> left-handed threads ;-). But to be honest, I'd be wondering
>> why they didn't just weld it with their Sonic Screwdrivers :-)
>
> They do have left-handed threads (and are left-handed themselves.) The
> lack of Sonic Screwdrivers is a plot point :-)
>
If anyone is skeptical about whether left-handed threads really would be
more convenient for a left-handed species -- I'm lefthanded, and I've
learned by sad experience to use screwdrivers with my right hand.
--
Dan Goodman dsg...@visi.com
Journal: http://dsgood.blogspot.com
Dan Goodman
> Comedy of (military) manners in a MilSF setting.
>
> Most of the tension, at least in the first part, comes from the fact
> that Peters and Todd are _extremely_ junior. They're dumped into a
> situation that, in something from Weber or even Stirling, would be
> handled by officers, though perhaps junior ones.
Suggestion: Have someone address one of them in a way appropriate to
someone of the rank which someone doing that job "should" have, rather than
appropriate to their actual rank. And then get flustered about it. That
would give a chance to uobtrusively explain that situation.
> They aren't
> comfortable with it, but manage to cope. Their seniors are surprised
> and unpleased with the result...
>
Why are they chosen?
Warrick M. Locke
dsg...@visi.com says...
"Enlisted people," said Captain Van Truong. "_Junior_ enlisted
people." He sounded disgusted and angry.
"That's what they asked for," the admiral said mildly. "Sailor, how
did you end up with this assignment?"
"Dumb luck, sir," Peters told him. "I happened to be on the phone to
my detailer when the request came up on the computer."
--
Regards,
Ric
Brian M. Scott
<warl...@mesh.net> wrote:
[...]
>she's got the midwatch on the
>mess deck as NJP for PDA, to wit, kissing her boyfriend while in
>uniform...
Non-judicial punishment I know; what's PDA? The general idea's
clear, but I don't recognize the acronym.
[...]
Julie Pascal
"Warrick M. Locke" <warl...@mesh.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.199b7a703...@news.mesh.net...
> Thanks to everyone for your thoughts, compliments, and insults :-)
>
> A problem remains: the bit about the female messcook, and the sailors
> not paying attention when they'll be away from women for a while, has
> bogged several people down, not all of them here.
I think that your readers are over-anylizing. I only tripped
because she was a she, not at all because the guys weren't
interested in flirting. They are too distracted to sleep, after
all. And they've been in dock for a while, yes?
> Part of the reason the guys don't react is that, at this point in the
> story, they expect this to be a short-term assignment -- ninety days
> or so. The title of the story is _Temporary Duty_; is that sufficient
> (in retrospect) or do I need to find a way to work that in somewhere
> early?
_Temporary Duty_ sounds like a title I'd come up with. Ick.
I don't think you'd need to work it in but it wouldn't be that hard,
would it, to have your two sailors make some remark about doing
something or other for 90 days...is there anything a guy would pack
a 90 day supply of just in case he can't get it where he's going?
Now, if they were *girl* sailors...
--Julie
Warrick M. Locke
says...
good order, but not always a "crash and burn" offense -- as in this
case, where the miscreant :-) has been assigned some mildly unpleasant
but not tortuous duty in punishment.
Military Non-Judicial Punishment sometimes sounds horrid to civilians
who are accustomed to the whole panoply of rights -- counsel, no self-
incrimination, and all that. When it's working right, NJP works much
better than the "normal" system. All the ones I've been involved in
have been a sort of consultation, with the accuser, the defendant, and
the judge coming to agree on what the crime was and what the
punishment will be. At its worst it can generate some genuinely horrid
abuses, which is why civilians have the more complex system.
--
Regards,
Ric
Jonathan Hendry
"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote in message
news:3f31cb50....@enews.newsguy.com...
Public Display of Affection
Brian M. Scott
It's enough for me, but I wasn't bothered in the first place.
Brian
Julie Pascal
Public Display of Affection.
--Julie
Julie Pascal
> > > "We push, somebody else pulls. You know how it is. Can we go now?"
> >
> > I don't know exactly what Peters means by this but I interpret
> > it as making a reply without answering the question.
>
> I don't know how to explain it. If you've never been in the military
> it probably makes little or no sense; if you have it probably passed
> without notice... I put several things like that in for flavor,
> details to establish that to some extent I know what I'm talking
> about.
I have been in the military, though I'm aware that some
people figure that the Air Force doesn't count. ;-) The
phrase "sounds" right, I'm just sure that I've never heard
it before and was a little curious what it meant.
--Julie
S. Palmer
> No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
Generally, I like it, but wasn't super sucked into it. Would probably
continue reading until either something in the story grabbed me or I was
distracted by pretty shiny things somewhere else and set it down.
First paragraph: too many commas, some in odd places. Maybe a few
shorter sentences, to improve the flow? See the same issue with some of
the later, longer paragraphs as well.
> Time did pass. "Reckon it's time to go," Peters observed at 0400.
They did nothing at all for two hours? Nothing? That's remarkable in and
of itself.
> "Hit the head first?" Todd suggested.
Two hours doing nothing and nobody thought of using the men's room?
> As they got closer the machine looked less and less familiar, like the
> Grallt themselves, who could easily pass for human until you could see
> their faces. It sat impossibly low, its landing gear invisible below
> wings that curved more than the human version's did.
Slightly klunky intro to the SF aspect here. I'd consider reworking
these sentences.
> Hell. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted screws.
I'd lost track of whose head I was in, by this point. But I like the
thought.
HTH,
-Suzanne
Warrick M. Locke
or literal depending on circumstances. Peters is being sardonic here,
which is logical given his relatively low rank (or "rate", in the
Navy).
In this particular context it's a polite way of saying FO to somebody
who's asked how he got an assignment some might consider a plum.
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
says...
> "Warrick M. Locke" wrote:
> > No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
>
> Generally, I like it, but wasn't super sucked into it. Would probably
> continue reading until either something in the story grabbed me or I was
> distracted by pretty shiny things somewhere else and set it down.
>
> First paragraph: too many commas, some in odd places. Maybe a few
> shorter sentences, to improve the flow? See the same issue with some of
> the later, longer paragraphs as well.
<glumly> Yes, I do often have a problem with Carrotish ballistic
punctuation.</glumly>
Rest snipped, but noted. Thank you for your comments. The POV in that
section clearly needs work.
Regards,
Ric
Brian M. Scott
<warl...@mesh.net> wrote:
>In article <3f31cb50....@enews.newsguy.com>, b.s...@csuohio.edu
>says...
>> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 21:31:08 -0500, Warrick M. Locke
>> <warl...@mesh.net> wrote:
>> >she's got the midwatch on the
>> >mess deck as NJP for PDA, to wit, kissing her boyfriend while in
>> >uniform...
>> Non-judicial punishment I know; what's PDA? The general idea's
>> clear, but I don't recognize the acronym.
>Public Display of Affection.
Argh. Yes, I should have been able to figure that out. Thanks.
[...]
>Military Non-Judicial Punishment sometimes sounds horrid to civilians
>who are accustomed to the whole panoply of rights -- counsel, no self-
>incrimination, and all that. When it's working right, NJP works much
>better than the "normal" system. All the ones I've been involved in
>have been a sort of consultation, with the accuser, the defendant, and
>the judge coming to agree on what the crime was and what the
>punishment will be. At its worst it can generate some genuinely horrid
>abuses, which is why civilians have the more complex system.
I was never actually present at a hearing, but for my first three
months after basic I spent much of my time typing up reports of
Article 15s. I always had the impression that the system worked
pretty well in my unit, and it sure beat the hell out of a
special court for the run of the mill stuff.
Brian
Brian M. Scott
>> Why are they chosen?
>From the next bit:
I like this more and more. I definitely want to read it!
Brian
Neil Barnes
news:BB571FC5.1F855%T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk:
More possibilities, pointed out by subtle UK/US lighting
differences: in the UK, wall mounted light switches operate in a
way contrary to US switches. I've been coming to the US for years
and it *still* gets me (even though I work in an industry in
which - where equipment power switches are specified - they work
US style).
Also, what's with the 'wind it round and round' bedside lamp
switches?
Neil
--
note - the email address in this message is valid but the
signal to noise ratio approaches -40dB. A more useful address
is a similar account at ntlworld-fullstop-com.
Neil Barnes
> As I've said elsewhere, for Americans and most Europeans who
> know airplanes, Phillips screws are the unmarked case. Peters
> notes the screws because at first glance they're familiar --
> but on the second look they're not the kind they use in Kansas
> :-)
I've just realised that I've sat and looked over the wings of
plenty of large jets, and a tricorn screw has been evident...
Petter Hesselberg
first sentence after "0500." You can keep the "but," or replace it with a
suitably placed "nevertheless" or "however," or you can leave the "but"
implied:
Their orders said 0500. But by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting ...
Their orders said 0500. Nevertheless, by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting
...
Their orders said 0500. By 0200, however, Peters and Todd were sitting ...
Their orders said 0500. By 0200, Peters and Todd were sitting ...
My favorite is the last one.
Second, this sentence:
>The mess deck was as usual, welded steel and pea-green plastic paint, ...
Your use of the definite article suggests that this is the very same mess
deck that Peters and Todd always use--in which case the observation that it
hasn't suddenly been rebuilt in pink Styrofoam seems odd. A minor tweak
gets rid of the problem (assuming this is _a_ mess deck, not their usual one
but similar):
The mess deck was the usual welded steel and pea-green plastic paint, ....
I like the way you build suspense without any overt drama; very nice. But
(as has already been mentioned) an earlier hint of alienness may be a good
idea--although if I were to read this in, say, Analog, I would certainly
assume that _something_ out of the ordinary would soon come along. :-)
I liked the suggestion to start with this:
>"Just another transfer," Peters advised with determined heartiness.
It is clear that Peters is putting the best possible face on something that
is really worrying him. (And "said" is better than "advised" here, IMO. As
has also been mentioned by someone else.)
Good luck,
Petter
Mary Gentle
(Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
> In article <memo.2003080...@roxanne.morgan.ntlworld.com>,
> mary_...@cix.co.uk says...
> > In article <MPG.199a028fe...@news.mesh.net>,
> > warl...@mesh.net (Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
> >
> > > In article <memo.2003080...@roxanne.morgan.ntlworld.com>,
> > > mary_...@cix.co.uk says...
> > > > In article <MPG.1999ed507...@news.mesh.net>,
> > > > warl...@mesh.net (Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Ah. I'll have to think on that some more. Problem is, I'm
> > > > > already extremely long on word count; if I put more
> > > > > foreshadowing in the first paragraph, something else will have
> > > > > to go.
> > > >
> > > > I wasn't thinking of adding anything, necessarily, just literally
> > > > shifting the placing of a couple of sentences.
>
> Bingo!
>
> And thank you very much. "Just another transfer..." is now the first
> line. It works perfectly, IMO.
Good grief! I mean, GOOD. :) (Hey, something I said worked!)
> > > That's one of the reasons I posted this here. All of my first
> > > readers have military backgrounds or read MilSF as their first
> > > choice (or both), and this seemed to go down rather well with
> > > _them_. I wanted other reactions, and yours is definitely a strong
> > > data point.
> >
> > Trouble is, if I'm reading Mil stuff these days, it tends to be
> > non-fiction. 'Twas not always so...
> > >
> > > It isn't, or tries not to be, bog-standard MilSF; there are one or
> > > two exploding spaceships, but they aren't the point. For one thing,
> > > both the protagonist, Peters, and his sidekick, Todd, are extremely
> > > junior, and this is where the conflict in the first third comes
> > > from. No white berets for this pair!
> >
> > If not bog-standard MilSF, where do you want to put it, ideally?
>
> Comedy of (military) manners in a MilSF setting.
Ah... Oh, in that case, I would hope to be enticed into reading it;
sounds like it would appeal to me.
>
> Most of the tension, at least in the first part, comes from the fact
> that Peters and Todd are _extremely_ junior. They're dumped into a
> situation that, in something from Weber or even Stirling, would be
> handled by officers, though perhaps junior ones. They aren't
> comfortable with it, but manage to cope. Their seniors are surprised
> and unpleased with the result...
Narrative tension, tick. :)
> > > Hm. Maybe I'll post the Sex Scene next :-)
> >
> > Ooh, yes please! The phrase "trefoil screws" suddenly takes on a
> > whole new meaning...
>
> Down, girl :-)
Waaah!
>
> I have to convert it to ASCII first. That part has been sitting on the
> disk for a while.
Well, go on, then -- we'll wait...
>
> > > >
> > > > I don't know how many other readers would think that, though. It
> > > > may well be just me.
> > > >
> > > > > I will be trying to get the proper phrase on P. 93, though :-)
> > > >
> > > > You have no pity for my credit card... <whimper>
> > >
> > > Hey, I've gotta get it in shape, then I've gotta sell it. By that
> > > time your residuals from Ash -- you _did_ get them by the pound,
> > > didn't you? -- will be such that there'll be no pain :-)
> >
> > Ah, I'll plug in a purchase between buying the yacht and the
> > penthouse flat... > > I'll remind you of the joys of a writer's
> > > > life when you get a look at /your/ royalty statements. :)
>
> I take it you _didn't_ get your royalties paid by the pound, or
> possibly by the stump :-)
Welcome to the life of the mid-list writer... <g>
>
> No, I have no illusions about payment levels. If I can sell it at all
> I'll be pleased as Punch; the money sounds like just about enough to
> clear one of my credit cards. But I owe you a drink for the bit about
> the first line -- if we're ever in sufficient propinquity :-)
Thank you, that's most kind. If we meet at a con, some day, a pint will
be very well received!
Mary
although today it would be a pint of ice water. :)
J. F. Cornwall
You could have the opening bit talk about "getting orders for a
short-term assignment to someplace they'd never expected" instead of
just "their orders".
Given a little different transition from "old-time Navy" atmosphere to
"duty assignment to an alien ship", I would keep reading. It's sounding
more interesting, just the original version was kind of "jarring" to me.
Jim Cornwall
(also one of those ex-military readers of MilSF...)
Warrick M. Locke
nailed_...@hotmail.com says...
> Tim S <T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> news:BB571FC5.1F855%T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk:
>
> > on 6/8/03 11:30 am, Khiem Tran at
> > nguyen_k...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
>
>
> >> I assumed they did because of the narration, but if they did
> >> why would they be surprised by the screws? (Unless, of
> >> course, they were planning to steal a piece of alien
> >> technology and had only thought to bring along Earth
> >> screwdrivers...)
> >
> > You can know intellectually that things are different and
> > still be surprised by the details.
> >
> > Somebody on rasfc not long ago was taken aback to learn that
> > light bulbs in the UK are mostly bayonet-fitting not
> > screw-fitting, even though they already knew perfectly well
> > that the UK isn't the same as America.
>
> More possibilities, pointed out by subtle UK/US lighting
> differences: in the UK, wall mounted light switches operate in a
> way contrary to US switches. I've been coming to the US for years
> and it *still* gets me (even though I work in an industry in
> which - where equipment power switches are specified - they work
> US style).
>
> Also, what's with the 'wind it round and round' bedside lamp
> switches?
I know about UK light switches, and most places in South America
they're the same where there's any system. Australia, too.
There used to be three primary sorts of switches incorporated into the
bulb socket: a push-through, a chain, and the rotary one you describe.
I never knew why the different ones were made or used. Hotel owners
have always preferred to have the switches somewhere on the base of
the lamp, because if they're on the socket too many people either
can't find the switch (and call the desk) or knock the lamp over and
break it, and because of the way they're made rotary switches are a
bit cheaper than the push-push or toggle sort.
My boggle came in Germany, where I saw a lamp socket with a toggle
switch in it. I've never seen one like that here.
--
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
mary_...@cix.co.uk says...
> In article <MPG.199b79666...@news.mesh.net>, warl...@mesh.net
> (Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
>
> >
> > Comedy of (military) manners in a MilSF setting.
>
> Ah... Oh, in that case, I would hope to be enticed into reading it;
> sounds like it would appeal to me.
Note that I said that's what I intended, _not_ that I'm confident of
pulling it off.
>
> > > > Hm. Maybe I'll post the Sex Scene next :-)
> > >
> > > Ooh, yes please! The phrase "trefoil screws" suddenly takes on a
> > > whole new meaning...
> >
> > Down, girl :-)
>
> Waaah!
Hang on, hang on -- the answer I'm accustomed to approximates "Well,
errr..." followed by a reminder that I should have been investing in
makers of shampoo and conditioner. Enthusiasm is most gratifying, but
give me half-a-tick to get used to the idea, OK? :-)
Unfortunately the scene in question is about 1500 words including
foreplay, and would need a bit of an infodump beforehand because it
occurs near the middle of the story. I've already trespassed on you
folks's rules a bit more than a newbie can really justify, and I can't
think you've any serious interest as other than a more-than-usually
dusty feline pelt. I'm not ashamed of the scene (perhaps I should be?
That's why I'd like opinions). Email? The address in my header is
real. Or I can post it, but only by acclamation at that length.
> >
> > No, I have no illusions about payment levels. If I can sell it at all
> > I'll be pleased as Punch; the money sounds like just about enough to
> > clear one of my credit cards. But I owe you a drink for the bit about
> > the first line -- if we're ever in sufficient propinquity :-)
>
> Thank you, that's most kind. If we meet at a con, some day, a pint will
> be very well received!
>
> Mary
> although today it would be a pint of ice water. :)
>
Argh. Yesterday was 108 (F, that's 42C) and today is 109. Good job I
got the icemaker on the fridge working last Saturday!
You're on for the pint, provided we're ever in the same pub. My
customer in Toronto is having troubles just _that_ too early for
Torcon. Sheesh. You'd think they'd have more consideration...
--
Regards,
Ric
Khiem Tran
>
> You can know intellectually that things are different and still be surprised
> by the details.
>
> Somebody on rasfc not long ago was taken aback to learn that light bulbs in
> the UK are mostly bayonet-fitting not screw-fitting, even though they
> already knew perfectly well that the UK isn't the same as America.
>
> Tim
Hmm. I guess you're right. Point taken.
Marilee J. Layman
<warl...@mesh.net> wrote:
>My boggle came in Germany, where I saw a lamp socket with a toggle
>switch in it. I've never seen one like that here.
The lamp at the Millennium Hotel in Mpls (Minicon) had toggle switches
in the base for the lamp and for the added electrical outlets in the
base.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Handmade Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
Warrick M. Locke
mjla...@erols.com says...
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 17:27:17 -0500, Warrick M. Locke
> <warl...@mesh.net> wrote:
>
> >My boggle came in Germany, where I saw a lamp socket with a toggle
> >switch in it. I've never seen one like that here.
>
> The lamp at the Millennium Hotel in Mpls (Minicon) had toggle switches
> in the base for the lamp and for the added electrical outlets in the
> base.
>
>
common nowadays, as you describe in hotels for the convenience of
laptop users.
I'm talking a toggle switch built into the _socket_.
--
Regards,
Ric
Tim S
Not sceptical, but...this sort of assumes the aliens' hands work similarly
to ours, i.e. they prefer to twist in the same direction we do. Suppose
their elbows went the other way or something?
Tim
Tim S
> Tim S <T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> news:BB571FC5.1F855%T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk:
>
>> on 6/8/03 11:30 am, Khiem Tran at
>> nguyen_k...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
>
>
>>> I assumed they did because of the narration, but if they did
>>> why would they be surprised by the screws? (Unless, of
>>> course, they were planning to steal a piece of alien
>>> technology and had only thought to bring along Earth
>>> screwdrivers...)
>>
>> You can know intellectually that things are different and
>> still be surprised by the details.
>>
>> Somebody on rasfc not long ago was taken aback to learn that
>> light bulbs in the UK are mostly bayonet-fitting not
>> screw-fitting, even though they already knew perfectly well
>> that the UK isn't the same as America.
>
> More possibilities, pointed out by subtle UK/US lighting
> differences: in the UK, wall mounted light switches operate in a
> way contrary to US switches.
To wit, in the UK, the bottom of the switch is in when the light is on, and
the top is in when the light is off.
> I've been coming to the US for years
> and it *still* gets me (even though I work in an industry in
> which - where equipment power switches are specified - they work
> US style).
>
> Also, what's with the 'wind it round and round' bedside lamp
> switches?
My God, I'd forgotten that.
Tim
Lucinda Welenc
> In article <3f2ff391....@enews.newsguy.com>, b.s...@csuohio.edu
> says...
>
>>On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:16:32 -0400, "do$feratu"
>><do$ferat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Warrick M. Locke wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>
>>>>Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting
>>>>in the forward mess deck in dress blues,
>>
>>>I found it odd that they would sit around for 3 hours waiting for
>>>. . . something. Maybe a little foreshadowing that this was not
>>>going to be just another transfer to keep it intresting.
>>
>>Seems to me that the waiting around together with the implication
>>that it was unusual *is* that foreshadowing.
>>
And the fact that they were extremely early, and *didn't* pay any
attention to an attractive female who was trying to be friendly puts it
square into 'unusual circumstances'.
> Well, that's what I was trying for; glad it worked for somebody.
>
Worked for me also, albeit with small boggling at 'brow' and 'peda'.
--
Alanna/Lucinda
**********
Saying of the day:
If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?
Marilee J. Layman
<T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>on 7/8/03 7:00 am, Neil Barnes at nailed_...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Tim S <T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:BB571FC5.1F855%T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk:
>>
>>> on 6/8/03 11:30 am, Khiem Tran at
>>> nguyen_k...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> I assumed they did because of the narration, but if they did
>>>> why would they be surprised by the screws? (Unless, of
>>>> course, they were planning to steal a piece of alien
>>>> technology and had only thought to bring along Earth
>>>> screwdrivers...)
>>>
>>> You can know intellectually that things are different and
>>> still be surprised by the details.
>>>
>>> Somebody on rasfc not long ago was taken aback to learn that
>>> light bulbs in the UK are mostly bayonet-fitting not
>>> screw-fitting, even though they already knew perfectly well
>>> that the UK isn't the same as America.
>>
>> More possibilities, pointed out by subtle UK/US lighting
>> differences: in the UK, wall mounted light switches operate in a
>> way contrary to US switches.
>
>To wit, in the UK, the bottom of the switch is in when the light is on, and
>the top is in when the light is off.
You're describing rocker switches, and I've seen those wired both ways
in the US. Most US light switches are toggle switches.
>> I've been coming to the US for years
>> and it *still* gets me (even though I work in an industry in
>> which - where equipment power switches are specified - they work
>> US style).
>>
>> Also, what's with the 'wind it round and round' bedside lamp
>> switches?
They're easy to install. I have a capiz shell hanging lamp that we
bought when I was a kid and because I use it as the reading lamp next
to my bed, I wired a rotary switch into the cord at lying-down-in-bed
height.
>My God, I'd forgotten that.
>
>Tim
--
Warrick M. Locke
lwelen...@cablespeed.com says...
> Warrick M. Locke wrote:
>
> > In article <3f2ff391....@enews.newsguy.com>, b.s...@csuohio.edu
> > says...
> >
> >>On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:16:32 -0400, "do$feratu"
> >><do$ferat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Warrick M. Locke wrote:
> >>
> >>[...]
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting
> >>>>in the forward mess deck in dress blues,
> >>
> >>>I found it odd that they would sit around for 3 hours waiting for
> >>>. . . something. Maybe a little foreshadowing that this was not
> >>>going to be just another transfer to keep it intresting.
> >>
> >>Seems to me that the waiting around together with the implication
> >>that it was unusual *is* that foreshadowing.
> >>
> And the fact that they were extremely early, and *didn't* pay any
> attention to an attractive female who was trying to be friendly puts it
> square into 'unusual circumstances'.
>
> > Well, that's what I was trying for; glad it worked for somebody.
> >
> Worked for me also, albeit with small boggling at 'brow' and 'peda'.
>
to walk on and off the ship; specifically, the part of it where it
contacts the ship.
"Peda" is a neologism that didn't work. I intended it to be "PDA".
Thanks for your comments.
--
Regards,
Ric
joy beeson
<nailed_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Also, what's with the 'wind it round and round' bedside lamp
> switches?
That ain't a patch on the "pat it precisely four times --
and not all pats count" switch.
I managed to put that lamp in a place where we hardly ever
use it.
Joy Beeson
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/ -- needlework
http://home.earthlink.net/~beeson_n3f/ -- Writers' Exchange
joy beeson at earthlink dot net
Julia Jones
<T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk> writes
>on 7/8/03 7:00 am, Neil Barnes at nailed_...@hotmail.com wrote:
[US lighting]
>>
>> Also, what's with the 'wind it round and round' bedside lamp
>> switches?
>
>My God, I'd forgotten that.
>
You should have seen me the first time I encountered one of these.
Couldn't work it out at all, eventually had to ask for instructions.
Another subtle difference - in the UK, traffic lights show amber briefly
when changing from red to green. Not round here, they don't...
--
Julia Jones
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send
unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org
address.
Julia Jones
Layman <mjla...@erols.com> writes
>You're describing rocker switches, and I've seen those wired both ways
>in the US. Most US light switches are toggle switches.
UK toggle switches work the opposite way to US ones, and the actual
action is effectively the same whether for toggle or rocker - to turn
the light on, you brush your hand downwards over the switch, to turn it
off you brush your hand upwards. Unless, of course, it's a light with
two or more switches in different places, such as stair lights. Or a
dimmer switch.
I *usually* get it right in the US now. I've only been here two years...
Warrick M. Locke
jaj...@suespammers.org says...
> In message <BB587186.1F9C9%T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk>, Tim S
> <T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk> writes
> >on 7/8/03 7:00 am, Neil Barnes at nailed_...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> [US lighting]
> >>
> >> Also, what's with the 'wind it round and round' bedside lamp
> >> switches?
> >
> >My God, I'd forgotten that.
> >
> You should have seen me the first time I encountered one of these.
> Couldn't work it out at all, eventually had to ask for instructions.
>
> Another subtle difference - in the UK, traffic lights show amber briefly
> when changing from red to green. Not round here, they don't...
>
One point: "wind it round and round" isn't a basic feature of that
type of switch. The knob is screwed onto the mechanism using a normal
right-handed thread. If you never turn it to the left, a half-turn
switches the lamp on or off. If someone has turned it to the left, it
will often unscrew, and then it takes several turns to screw it back
down to where it will work the mechanism.
--
Regards,
Ric
Anna Mazzoldi
"Graham Woodland" <gr...@quilpole.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:W$nR8CAH20L$Ew...@quilpole.demon.co.uk...
> Warrick M. Locke wrote
> >In article <Xns93CDE9ADBB8...@209.98.13.60>,
> >dsg...@visi.com says...
> >>
> >> I think this needs more hints that this isn't here and now, before the
> >> alien craft shows up.
> >
> >You may be right (and are, of course, as regards your own taste). I've
> >tried it several ways. Thanks for your comments.
> >
>
> I don't necessarily think so. The context in which it was published is
> likely to do that much, and it's plainly not far-future. As it is, I
> found the vivid here-and-nowness of the lead-up to be an effective
> tension-generator.
I agree completely here. If I buy SF, I don't expect it to be here-and-now
(unless and until definitely proven so).
I don't have anything much to say on the piece itself. Nothing jarred,
nothing made me stop reading. The first couple of paragraphs give a very
firm impression of a realistic-military kind of setting, and that's not
really my cup of tea: I would not be drawn to buy the book off the shelf or
continue reading much further, but that's not a problem with the writing,
it's just a type of story that I don't find attractive. I'm really not into
modern military... Which is why I can only really say, it looked competent
and I didn't spot anything particularly out of place.
Oh, one thing ;-). "Looked like an old space shuttle" may or may not be
appropriate. IMO, it would be appropriate only if that's really the first
thing that the _characters_ think to compare it to. So, more or less, it
would be appropriate if they have never seen that type of craft before, and
if there isn't anything else more recent that they could compare it to --
the adjective "old" suggests (1) that they're talking about the
Shuttle-as-we-know-it, and (2) that it's not in use any more. No other
elements in this piece to judge from -- so, it may well be perfectly
appropriate: you're the only person who would know, and I'm only pointing it
out for you to consider in case it slipped through...
--
Anna Mazzoldi
"Why did the chicken cross the road?"
Darwin: "It was the logical next step after coming down from the trees."
Julia Jones
<warl...@mesh.net> writes
>In article <lmuiN7ppydN$Ew...@jajones.demon.co.uk>,
>jaj...@suespammers.org says...
>> In message <BB587186.1F9C9%T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk>, Tim S
>> <T...@timsilverman.demon.co.uk> writes
>> >on 7/8/03 7:00 am, Neil Barnes at nailed_...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> [US lighting]
>> >>
>> >> Also, what's with the 'wind it round and round' bedside lamp
>> >> switches?
>> >
>> >My God, I'd forgotten that.
>> >
>> You should have seen me the first time I encountered one of these.
>> Couldn't work it out at all, eventually had to ask for instructions.
>
>type of switch. The knob is screwed onto the mechanism using a normal
>right-handed thread. If you never turn it to the left, a half-turn
>switches the lamp on or off. If someone has turned it to the left, it
>will often unscrew, and then it takes several turns to screw it back
>down to where it will work the mechanism.
>
but it wasn't the original problem. The original problem was "I've tried
pushing it and pulling it and flipping it in various directions, how
does this thing *work*?"
Irina Rempt
> One point: "wind it round and round" isn't a basic feature of that
> type of switch. The knob is screwed onto the mechanism using a normal
> right-handed thread. If you never turn it to the left, a half-turn
> switches the lamp on or off. If someone has turned it to the left, it
> will often unscrew, and then it takes several turns to screw it back
> down to where it will work the mechanism.
I briefly rented a room that had a switch like that, and I got a note
from the landlady once, "are you left-handed?" (I'm not, but I thought
"on" was to the right and "off" was to the left).
Irina
--
Vesta veran, terna puran, farenin. http://www.valdyas.org/irina/
Beghinnen can ick, volherden will' ick, volbringhen sal ick.
http://www.valdyas.org/~irina/foundobjects/ Latest: 11-May-2003
Stuart Houghton
$Ew...@jajones.demon.co.uk:
>
> UK toggle switches work the opposite way to US ones, and the actual
> action is effectively the same whether for toggle or rocker - to turn
> the light on, you brush your hand downwards over the switch, to turn it
> off you brush your hand upwards. Unless, of course, it's a light with
> two or more switches in different places, such as stair lights. Or a
> dimmer switch.
>
> I *usually* get it right in the US now. I've only been here two years...
Doesn't seem to be a problem for me - my default behaviour is to flick the
switch to whatever the opposite ofit's current position is. Probably due to
the fact that my parent's house (where I grew up) has two rocker switches
for the top-of-the-stairs light. Switching one on means that the off
position is reversed on the other.
--
Stuart Houghton
http://rippingyarns.blogspot.com/
Marilee J. Layman
<stu_ajh-utter...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I have this in two places in the condo -- the switches for the foyer,
and the switches for the hallway.
Chris Johnson
mary_...@cix.co.uk (Mary Gentle) wrote:
> In article <MPG.199b79666...@news.mesh.net>, warl...@mesh.net
> (Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
> > Comedy of (military) manners in a MilSF setting.
> Ah... Oh, in that case, I would hope to be enticed into reading it;
> sounds like it would appeal to me.
*long-delayed response, but irresistible*
Military manners can be very funny. Just reading that reminded me of
a vignette that actually happened at a con I went to. It's a furry con,
so the parties involved were a lion, an otter, and a kitsune.
The lion was ex-mil, and a priest, generally a fine fellow.
The otter was a Navy lieutenant (?) and otterishly rambunctious,
boisterous, playful.
The kitsune was a Navy Commander. No joke. He's a very disciplined,
controlled, quiet fellow, oddly serene, with an appealing worldly-wise
quality, and a career officer.
All three are friends of mine, and I've seen the kitsune interacting
with fannish types who profess themselves to be Starfleet Commanders and
such- fans are funny beings, I keep expecting some degree of
eye-bugging-out when they learn the kitsune is REALLY a Commander, but
it doesn't seem to register with them. Yes, there is a Real Life, and
this man's living a code you couldn't imagine. I've seen him explaining
patiently to civilians that he's signed away certain of the rights
normal Americans have, like free unrestricted speech, in order to serve
the military. That's literally- he's subject to the military code which
apparently is quite specific and is much more restrictive. I've also
hung out with these guys when they start talking shop, and it's writer
heaven- one wishes for a tape-recorder just to get the TONE of it all.
I'm going to need to mimic that eventually.
Anyway, a bunch of furry congoers were having breakfast at the hotel
restaraunt. The otter has decided to wear his dress whites and go around
the con decked out in his military regalia, just for the heck of it. He
goes down to join his friends for breakfast, and all are impressed with
his splendid appearance. In fact, the ex-marine lion throws a salute.
Someone asks our otter, "Why aren't you saluting back?"
"Well," smiles the otter, "he's a civilian. I don't have to salute
civilians!"
Kitsune turns his head, just casually, with his little half-smile.
Says one word. "Drop."
Whump! The otter hits the floor, in full regalia. "PERMISSION TO
BEGIN, SIR!"
"Begin." With perfect poise.
The otter begins throwing off push-ups, loudly counting, "ONE, SIR!
TWO, SIR!" etc.
I forget how many he did- 20? 50? When he finished, the crowded
restaraunt cheered him, and Kitsune informed him, "You've just earned
yourself your breakfast", and bought him breakfast. True story- and
delightfully colorful. To me the delightful part was the kitsune lurking
there, ready to pounce on the otter's expected insouciance, and then,
oh-so-casually, "Drop." and the exaggerated, spectacular response this
gets :)
Military manners are fascinating. You can't assume outright retarded
master-slave culture, but at the same time it's not remotely
egalatarian, either. The power relationships are the foundation of
everything- a bumbling superior is funny, but insubordination is no part
of it and isn't funny at all, so there's a curious fatalistic tone to
everything, and the typical Western Culture hero-as-disobeyer meme
doesn't even get a look in. It's like military manners are funnier when
it's people contorting themselves into ludicrous postures to willingly
comply with the absurd, and laughing about it while they diligently
carry on doing it. If anyone openly rebelled against the system, they'd
be shot which isn't funny at all, so it's SNAFU land,
normalcy-as-surviving-amid-chaos. I like that theme :)
Chris Johnson
Brooks Moses
> Roughly 750 words, which is a bit long; my apologies. I clipped where
> I thought it "broke" a bit.
>
> No specific requests. Thank you in advance.
A couple of comments....
> Their orders said 0500, but by 0200 Peters and Todd were sitting in
> the forward mess deck in dress blues, seabags stuffed to bursting and
> shoved under the table, peacoats folded neatly on the next bench,
> talking little in low nervous voices, sipping burned coffee and
> nibbling stale sweet rolls. The mess deck was as usual, welded steel
> and pea-green plastic paint, conduits and pipes and gadgets,
> artificial sunlight on a scene that could have used something more
> subdued. The lone messcook on midwatch, a short redhead with freckles
> and a figure that showed through her whites, wanted to chat, but
> finally retreated into the galley when all she could get was grunts.
The "the mess deck was as usual" comment is something that I'd interpret
as a cue that it isn't always the way it's described here, and that the
fact that it isn't always that way will immediately become relevant and
explained. The lack of explanation for same I find a bit unsettling.
[...]
> On the wingtip was a transparent bubble, maybe a running light but who
> the Hell knew, mounted on a flange with cross-slotted screws.
>
> Hell. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted screws.
I like the way that the weirdness is landed home in that tiny detail --
you have the incluing of bits of stuff that's alien, but all things that
seem far-off even though this particular ship is a bit different from
the usual, and then the screws suddenly tie it all up into "_this_ is
alien".
On the other hand, it is (or, more accurately, it feels to me) slightly
slow getting the protagonists to this point; I'm not sure if that's
necessarily a bad thing or not, and I don't think the solution is in
making it shorter.
(I also note that this would make a good spot for a chapter-break, if
one wants an illustration of such for the other thread about the
things.)
- Brooks
Brooks Moses
> The biggest impetus for oddball screwheads is from manufacturers. A
> screwhead that, e.g., sticks to the driver until it's in place, self-
> centers, amd reliably accepts the torque necessary to drive it, is a
> sort of Holy Grail. That's the reason for Torx: it stays on the driver
> point better than most others, and accepts torque well. Hex socket is
> cheaper to make but doesn't take the torque; square socket is cheaper
> yet and takes torque well, but when it fails it fails *bad*. Straight
> slots don't stay on the driver, don't self-center, and are lousy for
> accepting torque. When they declare me Emperor of the World, my first
> decree will declare straight-slotted screws illegal. I may not insist
> on the death penalty until the third infraction :-)
Straight-slotted screws do, however, have the advantage that the slots
can be cut rather than needing to be cast into place, which I gather at
least historically made them easier to construct -- it's a lot easier to
cut things to close tolerances, rather than casting them to same. This
applies even more strongly for itsy-bitsy screws (00-90 or the like).
- Brooks
Brooks Moses
> I think you mention the Grallt too early: I would have had Todd notice
> the non-humanity of the pilot, rather than naming the species
> outright. It doesn't work to have someone notice the slight
> incongruity of trefoil- slotted screws after the omniscient-reader
> knows that the vehicle is alien.
Interestingly, I didn't know it was alien -- I was assuming some sort of
strange flying craft that normally hailed from Area 51, true, but I
assumed it was advanced human tech (possibly built with stuff from the
Grallt) rather than alien. So, for me, the trefoil screws _did_ cause
my perceptions of it to take a sudden shift.
- Brooks
Warrick M. Locke
0F2612.164...@unknown63223005101.ipbbc.net>,
jinx...@sover.net says...
> In article <memo.2003080...@roxanne.morgan.ntlworld.com>,
> mary_...@cix.co.uk (Mary Gentle) wrote:
> > In article <MPG.199b79666...@news.mesh.net>, warl...@mesh.net
> > (Warrick M. Locke) wrote:
> > > Comedy of (military) manners in a MilSF setting.
>
> > Ah... Oh, in that case, I would hope to be enticed into reading it;
> > sounds like it would appeal to me.
>
> *long-delayed response, but irresistible*
>
> Military manners can be very funny. Just reading that reminded me of
> a vignette that actually happened at a con I went to.
Chris, I like your story, and believe every word of it, but a word of
warning: you've got such a mixture of dead-the-f*-on and completely
missing the point in this that it's a bit stiff to tell one from
t'other. I haven't time to go into detail -- it's my wedding
anniversary (#28!) and I'm stealing time while she showers and dresses
for dinner -- but I'd advise you to seek further enlightenment from
your kitsune and otter friends before you go too far out on any
robust-looking limbs :-)
Regards,
Ric
Warrick M. Locke
use...@cits1.stanford.edu says...
occurred to me.
Regards,
Ric
Brooks Moses
> "Warrick M. Locke" wrote:
>
> They did nothing at all for two hours? Nothing? That's remarkable in and
> of itself.
Well, it may well have been nothing worth noting in the story....
> > "Hit the head first?" Todd suggested.
>
> Two hours doing nothing and nobody thought of using the men's room?
My thought on that would be that they thought of it (and likely acted on
that thought) when they were getting ready, but that's been two hours
ago. That, and this is a sort of "stop by the restroom on the way out,
not because your bladder says it needs to, but because you don't want to
need to later" -- something optimally done just before they leave.
- Brooks
Brian M. Scott
<bmoses...@cits1.stanford.edu> wrote:
>"Warrick M. Locke" wrote:
[...]
>> Hell. Not cross-slotted screws. Trefoil-slotted screws.
[...]
>(I also note that this would make a good spot for a chapter-break, if
>one wants an illustration of such for the other thread about the
>things.)
Absolutely. It's a stopping-point in the sense that a bunch of
things have fallen into place, and the narration could at this
point jump forward in time, though it certainly need not, but on
the other hand anyone who's permanently going to stop reading
here probably isn't part of the audience anyway.
Brian
Warrick M. Locke
use...@cits1.stanford.edu says...
> "Warrick M. Locke" wrote:
> > ... When they declare me Emperor of the World, my first
> > decree will declare straight-slotted screws illegal. I may not insist
> > on the death penalty until the third infraction :-)
>
> Straight-slotted screws do, however, have the advantage that the slots
> can be cut rather than needing to be cast into place, which I gather at
> least historically made them easier to construct -- it's a lot easier to
> cut things to close tolerances, rather than casting them to same. This
> applies even more strongly for itsy-bitsy screws (00-90 or the like).
>
> - Brooks
>
I've resorted to them a number of times when other types have gotten
wallowed out or otherwise undriveable (or, more to the point, un-
removable.) A Dremel[TM] tool with a thin cutoff blade is a wonderful
object to own :-)
And anyone masochistic enough to deal with 00 screws is doing him or
herself enough damage that any penalty I might offer would be
redundant. I do note, however, that Phillips and JIS driver sizes go
down to triple zeroes. Asian miniature video equipment is full of
teenyweeny screws with cross-slotted heads, and even my hands-of-
thumbs find them easier to deal with than the slotted German ones.
Regards,
Ric
Chris Johnson
They're not here, and you are- elucidate, please! :)
Chris Johnson
Julie Pascal
"Chris Johnson" <jinx...@sover.net> wrote in message
news:jinx6568-0F2612...@unknown63223005101.ipbbc.net...
(...)
> Yes, there is a Real Life, and
> this man's living a code you couldn't imagine. I've seen him explaining
> patiently to civilians that he's signed away certain of the rights
> normal Americans have, like free unrestricted speech, in order to serve
> the military.
Serve *in* the military. One does not serve the military. The
military serves the American people. (Not the government either.)
Maybe the Constitution. Dang, I can not remember what is
in the oath.
Anyway, I've had that conversation before. It's very true and
an officer would be more restricted than any enlisted person.
I don't think any civilian I tried to explain it to really understood
but it's not rocket science and it's not, well, some remarkable
code to live by.
> That's literally- he's subject to the military code which
> apparently is quite specific and is much more restrictive. I've also
> hung out with these guys when they start talking shop, and it's writer
> heaven- one wishes for a tape-recorder just to get the TONE of it all.
> I'm going to need to mimic that eventually.
It's a different world and I miss it, even in the pretend military
enlisted Air Force way. ;-) But I can't *do* the tone anymore without
being submerged back into it. And even then I can't do it *on*
*purpose*. It's transparent. If I tried to do it on purpose I'd
sound like a phony.
> Anyway, a bunch of furry congoers were having breakfast at the hotel
> restaraunt. The otter has decided to wear his dress whites and go around
> the con decked out in his military regalia, just for the heck of it. He
> goes down to join his friends for breakfast, and all are impressed with
> his splendid appearance. In fact, the ex-marine lion throws a salute.
>
> Someone asks our otter, "Why aren't you saluting back?"
>
> "Well," smiles the otter, "he's a civilian. I don't have to salute
> civilians!"
Absolutely. (And on reflection it seems to me that an implied
request was made for a military demonstration by the person
who asked "why?")
> Kitsune turns his head, just casually, with his little half-smile.
> Says one word. "Drop."
>
> Whump! The otter hits the floor, in full regalia. "PERMISSION TO
> BEGIN, SIR!"
No other possible response. Though this would be an officer sort
of thing. Of course, if the fellow wearing his whites was enlisted
the commander would not have done it. If the fellow wearing the
whites wasn't his friend he wouldn't have done it. Because it wasn't
about asserting authority. Not at all.
> "Begin." With perfect poise.
>
> The otter begins throwing off push-ups, loudly counting, "ONE, SIR!
> TWO, SIR!" etc.
>
> I forget how many he did- 20? 50? When he finished, the crowded
> restaraunt cheered him, and Kitsune informed him, "You've just earned
> yourself your breakfast", and bought him breakfast. True story- and
> delightfully colorful. To me the delightful part was the kitsune lurking
> there, ready to pounce on the otter's expected insouciance, and then,
> oh-so-casually, "Drop." and the exaggerated, spectacular response this
> gets :)
Hmm... not lurking. More like, um, tribal bonding and he'd been
given "permission" by the fact that his friend showed up in uniform. And
showing off for the natives of course. Never underestimate showing off.
> Military manners are fascinating. You can't assume outright retarded
> master-slave culture, but at the same time it's not remotely
> egalatarian, either. The power relationships are the foundation of
> everything-
No. It's not power relationships at all. Officers are more tightly
bound...more subservient than any enlisted person. For instance,
an enlisted person may question in a situation where an officer may
absolutely not. And an officer may not, at all, undermine order
or discipline. Which is why I, as a little senior airman communications
tech was entirely prepared to look a general in the eye and say,
"I'm sorry, sir, you are not on my list." But the thing is...the general
in question would have never *ever* have put himself (or herself)
in that situation. They do that to you in basic training... set up
someone, your TI or whoever, who asks you to do something
that you have to say "no" to. "No, you may not pass." "No, you
are not on my list to pick up classified message traffic." When an
officer undermines regulations you get scenes such as the Admiral
ordered by the ship's captain to apologize to a seaman in front
of the assembled crew. Which story I was told and I believe.
Now, the only time I ever *did* tell a general he couldn't have
what he wanted it was a big boo boo and very embarassing and
said general may not have realized that I was military rather than
civilian (since it involved the use of his phone) but if he did
realize that I was military I would probably not have gotten
much more than I did which was the switchboard supervisor
carefully explaining to me that if the *base commander* requested
a phone line he was supposed to get it! Oh, and he called me
back and thanked me for helping out while the phone operators
were on strike. Did I mention embarassing yet?
Anyway back to power-relationship stuff... an example...
Last fall I worked at a factory for a while and they
hired a new guy who'd just got out of the Army the previous
year. After he found out that I'd been in the Air Force he did
some stuff that would have been considered, um, posturing and
intimidation. He gave me his "sergeant look". I said, "Wow,
Jeremy, you do that really well!" And he did, too. Six years
in the army and the last three years of it in Bosnia in charge of
idiot privates and he had a look that could turn your stomach
to jelly. He didn't do that to anyone else. He didn't invade
anyone else's personal space and try to stare them down...only
he wasn't. Different people would do different things but this
was his way of saying "I know you and you know me."
Or at least it was his way of testing me to see if I was part of
his tribe...for lack of a better term.
We talked a little bit about the military. He was glad to be
out. When he told me what his job was I described it to him.
Not his combat specialty...his responsibilities, his *job*.
During his time in Bosnia he'd been shot in the leg. We were walking
up to the break room when he mentioned that. I'm not a girl
for nothing so I said, very seriously, slowly..."Good thing they
were aiming for your leg." He just about tripped on the
stairs and blurted an indignant "They aren't *that* good of shots!"
before realizing he'd been scored on. ;-)
> (...) a bumbling superior is funny,
I had a bumbling superior once and trust me, it's only funny on TV.
> but insubordination is no part
> of it and isn't funny at all, so there's a curious fatalistic tone to
> everything, and the typical Western Culture hero-as-disobeyer meme
> doesn't even get a look in.
I'm not sure what you consider fatalistic. Hero-as-disobeyer
sounds like a good way to get killed...or at least seriously piss off
the people you work with. Why should someone get to make my
job harder?
On the other hand, there are overt rewards for showing initiative
that includes breaking rules. Officer training has got to be the
only place where sneaking out and subverting the system (and the
stated goal to train in "survival") to order pizzas gets you commended
instead of in trouble. "Fine job planning and executing that manuver,
Cadet!"
> It's like military manners are funnier when
> it's people contorting themselves into ludicrous postures to willingly
> comply with the absurd, and laughing about it while they diligently
> carry on doing it.
Ah, but the missing part of the equation is the restrictions on the
guy who requested the absurd. And you can't *see* those.
> If anyone openly rebelled against the system, they'd
> be shot which isn't funny at all, so it's SNAFU land,
> normalcy-as-surviving-amid-chaos. I like that theme :)
"I want to get out now," works better than is generally
let on. You just have to get the timing right.
--Julie
Chris Johnson
"Julie Pascal" <ju...@pascal.org> wrote:
> Anyway, I've had that conversation before. It's very true and
> an officer would be more restricted than any enlisted person.
> I don't think any civilian I tried to explain it to really understood
> but it's not rocket science and it's not, well, some remarkable
> code to live by.
*snip*
Thanks- yes, there's a lot I don't (possibly can't) understand, and I
bet that's what I was being cautioned about. Heinlein suggested never
writing about things you knew that well, but I think if it comes to that
I'll be inventing fictional militaries of alien races and evading some
of the responsibility. But, I can see that some of my attempts to
understand what I was seeing were mistaken :)
Chris Johnson