Surviving Zingali
Stuart Rice
in 83 has prompted me to post the link to this entry to the 1999
Marching Virtual Symposium: Surviving Zingali. It may be the most
satifying paper I've ever written (unfortunately, RAMDers were so
unhappy about speaking my mind at the time, I had to post it under a
psuedoname in order to mitigate prejudice).
www.geocities.com/marchingresearch/wilsym99.txt
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Jeff Ream
it isn't your best work
>Subject: Surviving Zingali
>From: ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice)
>Date: 8/9/2003 3:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d12adb54.03080...@posting.google.com>
Jeff Ream
"I'm the drummer your guard captain warned you about"
Sharcast2
Working with Zingali..
Stuart and Jeff.. just don't know.
Sharon
Catherine
minutes in any way <VK reference>) - I still remember him.
-- Catherine
"Sharcast2" <shar...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20030811205737...@mb-m12.aol.com...
Sharcast2
>I only watched him up close for 15 minutes or so (not to be confused with
>15-1/2
>minutes in any way <VK reference>) - I still remember him.
>
>-- Catherine
Nope.. Mr Zingali.. didn't help MY winterguard.
Sharon
Catherine
Notice I didn't say what I remember... Those of us who saw - or experienced him in
rehearsal <oh, my...> don't need any explanation. I can't think of anyone else
offhand I could compare it to.
-- Catherine
NJThundrRD
That was great!
Eric (the Eric that used to call you by your proper name... TROUBLE!)
Jeff Ream
but i respect the man and his body of work.
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: shar...@aol.comnojunk (Sharcast2)
>Date: 8/11/2003 8:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030811205737...@mb-m12.aol.com>
GEORGE 82
>him in
>rehearsal <oh, my...> don't need any explanation. I can't think of anyone
>else
>offhand I could compare it to.
>
>-- Catherine
>
>
Hear, Hear Catherine! I have many fond memories and I miss seeing him around.
I also miss seeing his genius being displayed on the field.
"George Lea, you're ticking like a bomb, TICKING LIKE A BOMB!!!" .....George
Zingali at a rehearsal sometime during the 1982 season
George Lea
Jerome Kimbrough
> LOL Sharon!
>
> That was great!
>
> Eric (the Eric that used to call you by your proper name... TROUBLE!)
are you shittin me?
;o)
Clem Cruikshank
How could you have omitted mention of the 27th Lancers in your
introduction. What and awful gaff.
CC
NJThundrRD
I used that line at a band camp once and two little asain flute players came up
to me and said, "were chinese and your not speakin chinese"
NJThundrRD
I remember Tommy Strachan saying,
"George Lea? GEORGE LEA?! How come I've been here for only thirty minutes and
your name is the first I've learned!"
NJThundrRD
inches of rain in a matter of hours.....
four days later and after the worst show at Ramsey we ever had (not to mention
they handed us full size DEG euphoniums an hour before the show after
practicing on baritones), we sucked so bad.....
so...........
we go back to practice at the parking lot at the Ford motor plant in Mahwah for
death practice and Zingali follows me around for two hours screaming at me....
"cry ... freakin cry already!"
"skip practice again huh?"
"will you freakin cry?"
And I looked at him and said, "Why? I have the greatest visual instructor on
the face of the planet as my personal teacher for the last two hours! Why would
I ever want you to leave?"
Zingy said. "FU ERIC!" and giggled as he walked away!
BucsBari2
circle around the guard in Rocky Point?
Zingalli was in the middle of the form as the guard broke out of the circle
between us, we hit the side of our horns and fall on the ground holding our
noses as if the guard hit us with their poles. Zingalli standing in the middle
screaming OH -MY God! OH MY God! think he just got us all killed.
He must of had us do 100 push ups for that! But it was worth it! :->
Robert G Mayer
1972-1976 Townskids/Townsmen
1977-1980 Royal Brigade
1981 Caballeros
1982-1983 Garfield Cadets
2000- > Reading Buccaneers
NJThundrRD
when i was teaching star, he had this set that looked likea penis and balls and
he didnt even realize it until all the kids in the corps "hung" (pun intended)
their dot books in front of their crotches....
George was like, "What are you guys doing? WHAT? WHAT?!......ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<insert Zingali laugh here> I guess I had something on my mind while writing
that set!"
and of course all the guys were like, "its big george, you must have been
thinking of me!"
NJThundrRD
think of George and all he taught me over those years.....and how I applied
those lessons to so many things that have come back to reward my life in a
blessed way."
I guess its true... you do reap what you sow.
<pointing to Heaven> Miss you Zingy!
Jerome Kimbrough
LOL.;o)
I miss that guy.
Jerome Kimbrough
> ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice) wrote in message news:<d12adb54.03080...@posting.google.com>...
> > A recent comment that I may have "sour grapes" about losing to Cadets
> > in 83 has prompted me to post the link to this entry to the 1999
> > Marching Virtual Symposium: Surviving Zingali. It may be the most
> > satifying paper I've ever written (unfortunately, RAMDers were so
> > unhappy about speaking my mind at the time, I had to post it under a
> > psuedoname in order to mitigate prejudice).
> >
> >
Nice write up.I dont agree with this;
Stuart Rice: "Zingali was in too big a hurry to express something to
worry about how it
was expressed (via marching technique). That's why their
technique always sucked. He
did not lay a good technical foundation, and that may be a good
reason why they are not
as interested in marching today."
That was not the case(at least when I was there)
J
Don
I have told this story on this newsgroup before........but i have to
tell it again...........when I did my student teaching 29 years
ago...........picture shows were popular (especially here in Michigan
where U of M did that a lot).
A picture show would be like if you did songs about a baby you would
make a formation that looked like a baby carriage.......or if you did
a song about homes you would form a picture of a house on the field).
My critic teacher and I were talking about this and he warns me never
to form a cannon on the field. I asked why. He said draw it on a piece
of paper and lool at it from a 45 degree angle. I totally cracked up.
Three weeks later he and another local director take me to a marching
band exhibition (contests were not as popular back then)and this HS
band plays the "1812 Overture" and forms a cannon on the field. Well
to top it off they had the shaft of the cannon shimmy by the marching
members moving back and forth and then at the end of the song they
used a fire extinguisher and shot off white CO2 out of the end of the
cannon.
There were 2 band directors and one future band director totally
losing it in the stands that night..........people wondered what we
were laughing about.
To top it off:
2 short years later I was assistant director of bands at the "Cannon "
HS. After about 3 years and I got to know the director well enough I
told him about his "formation".
Another note........I saw a band do the baby carriage once also and it
is a hard one to pull off also(pardon the saying)..........it ended up
looking like a sperm cell.
NJThundrRD
5 at over 180bpm with our toes all pointing down and perfectly matched at the
ankles on the "and count".....
ok... we had poor technique then
Stuart Rice
> How could you have omitted mention of the 27th Lancers in your
> introduction. What and awful gaff.
Didn't have any such information at the time, unfortunately.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
NJThundrRD
Maybe your website should be called...
GEORGE 82
It's just sour grapes Eric. He marched with one of the west coast cry babies
in '83. I'm sure you remember how they acted (especially the boys in blue).
George
Clem Cruikshank
Whomever says Zingali was not about technique is talking right out of
their ass. He was one of the best at teaching great technique. He was
maniacal about it. He even developed the roll step with the Lancers
and the touch-and-go with the Cadets. Get a clue.
CC
Blimphouse
> yea, that was great.... we pulled a lot of on the field tricks on zingali.
>
>
I believe it was 82' and we were about 7 hours from Whitewater and
Zingali
bitched over the C.B. radio non-stop about having to drive faster and
get the practice field that Madison always used exclusively. Now, a
regular person bitching over a crackling c.b. radio for 7+ hours is
annoying, but Zingali had that special "gift" that anyone knowing him
could identify with, and he made good use of it here.
So when we pulled in just before daybreak in Whitewater, most of the
staff
had to listen to George now bitch about how we all had to stay there
to protect the field until the corps woke up and ate.........
so we tied Zingali to the front of the equipment truck and left him
there,
screaming.
I miss him all the time...........Thanks Spirit, for bringing back
some Zingy smiles with this years tribute.
Sabach! is that you?
Blimphouse
GEORGE 82
>
...Dane??? Dane Dufour??? Is that you??
George Lea
GEORGE 82
>their ass. He was one of the best at teaching great technique. He was
>maniacal about it. He even developed the roll step with the Lancers
>and the touch-and-go with the Cadets. Get a clue.
>
I remember in 1982, George was teaching us (Garfield) and Alliance out of
Greater Boston. There was sort of a rivalry going on between us about which
corps got their toes up higher on the roll-step.
As anyone who was around back then knows, not only George but anyone who was
involved with the marching program from the 27th Lancers was very serious about
marching technique. Danny McBride, Jim Paradise, John Opedisano, George
Zingali, and Mark Sylvester all worked with the Cadets and had marched and
taught 27th in their heyday. They all taught and stressed technique very much.
George Lea
Catherine
news:d3a5b346.03081...@posting.google.com...
<snip>
> My critic teacher and I were talking about this and he warns
> me never to form a cannon on the field. I asked why. He said
> draw it on a piece of paper and lool at it from a 45 degree
> angle. I totally cracked up.
>
> Three weeks later he and another local director take me to a marching
> band exhibition (contests were not as popular back then)and this HS
> band plays the "1812 Overture" and forms a cannon on the field. Well
> to top it off they had the shaft of the cannon shimmy by the marching
> members moving back and forth and then at the end of the song they
> used a fire extinguisher and shot off white CO2 out of the end of the
> cannon.
<snip>
Famously exploited decades ago by the Stanford band when their football team was
playing the USC Trojans...
-- Catherine
Stuart Rice
> Technique always sucked?
During Zingali's tenure, generally and frankly speaking, yes.
> There are pictures of baritones backing up at 5 to the 5 at over
> 180bpm with our toes all pointing down and perfectly matched at the
> ankles on the "and count".....
Bad technique and uniformity are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
NJThundrRD
who are you?
NJThundrRD
GEORGE 82
>
>During Zingali's tenure, generally and frankly speaking, yes.
>
>> There are pictures of baritones backing up at 5 to the 5 at over
>> 180bpm with our toes all pointing down and perfectly matched at the
>> ankles on the "and count".....
>
>Bad technique and uniformity are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
>
>
Like I said....sour grapes.
Big Rich Soprano
>
>I used that line at a band camp once and two little asain flute players came up
>to me and said, "were chinese and your not speakin chinese"
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Jerome Kimbrough
How about uniformity of technique.Or the fact that technique existed
in some places and NOT in others.You are WAY off base,recheck your
videos,ass clown.
;o)
Big Rich Soprano
>And I looked at him and said, "Why? I have the greatest visual instructor on
>the face of the planet as my personal teacher for the last two hours! Why would
>I ever want you to leave?"
>Zingy said. "FU ERIC!" and giggled as he walked away!
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Stuart Rice
> How could you not know that zingali taught Two Seven?
1. I omitted information about George's experience with 27th Lancers
in the introduction because, again, such information was not readily
available on RAMD, and because the information available about
Zingali's drill/instruction career was adequate for the purposes of
the paper.
2. I didn't suggest Zingali did or didn't teach 27th Lancers. The
fact that you seem to suggest I did reveals not only poor reading
comprehension, but also faulty logic. Doesn't it seem obvious that
Zingali would not have gotten a job with Garfield without some
instructional background? Doesn't it seem equally obvious that he
would have gotten that experience with the 27th Lancers, who he left
to come to Garfield?
3. If you are still confused about what George Zingali did for 27th
Lancers, I encourage you to re-read "Surviving Zingali" - particularly
the following excerpts:
"John Opedisano: 27th Lancers of the mid seventies. This was
Zingali's original drum corps and Ralph Pace's 75 drill was a trend
setter. ...I worked with George from the beginning of his career
...."
"Richard Vincent Lamb: Bobby Hoffman was with Bridgemen. Zingali, as
far as I know, never was. Both were with 27th Lancers. ... Zingali
was a drill instructor as early as 1978 (if not before) and took over
drill writing in 1979 when Ralph Pace left. I should know...I met
George in 1978 when he visited a Kingsmen rehearsal for CYO Nationals
and asked to see me march. One of the Kingsmen contra players later
told me that Zingali was checking me out to see if he could recruit me
for 27. ... I also remember seeing Zingali jumping up and down on the
press box whenever 27 performed."
> Maybe your website should be called...
>
> marchingkindasortaresearch.com
I'm sorry, but we cannot change our website name to accommodate people
who are reading comprehension challenged.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Stuart Rice
> How could you have omitted mention of the 27th Lancers in your
> introduction. What and awful gaff.
Apologies - I just realized you said "introduction," and thought you
were referring to the text in general. You're right - that info
should have been supplied in the introduction. When I get an
opportunity, I will correct that.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Stuart Rice
> >Whomever says Zingali was not about technique is talking right out of
> >their ass. He was one of the best at teaching great technique. He was
> >maniacal about it. He even developed the roll step with the Lancers
> >and the touch-and-go with the Cadets. Get a clue.
I've never seen anyone able to explain "touch-and-go" well enough to
change my opinion that it is developed by and for people who cannot
control movement. But you're welcome to take a crack at it.
> I remember in 1982, George was teaching us (Garfield) and Alliance out of
> Greater Boston. There was sort of a rivalry going on between us about which
> corps got their toes up higher on the roll-step.
>
> As anyone who was around back then knows, not only George but anyone who was
> involved with the marching program from the 27th Lancers was very serious about
> marching technique. Danny McBride, Jim Paradise, John Opedisano, George
> Zingali, and Mark Sylvester all worked with the Cadets and had marched and
> taught 27th in their heyday. They all taught and stressed technique very much.
John Opedisano was my instructor in 1983, and I can assert, both from
what I learned and from what I saw others learning, he knew and taught
good technique. That is not to say he knew all there was to know on
the subject. However, he cared about technique, spent a great deal of
rehearsal time on it, and generally knew good technique when he saw
it.
John had his limitations - but he instructed much better technique
than George. When we're talking about technique, we're talking about
quality of movement, not ensemble (uniformity) and execution (form
accuracy). The upper-body carriage was poor - swayback was uniform.
This was only one reason their body control was poor, leading to poor
foot control, and vice-versa. You can see it even from the hi-cam
angle. The fact that he managed to get his kids to keep a straight
line has little bearing on the technique he failed to provide them -
and that's a serious thing, when you're dealing with those tempos.
I wouldn't hold it against him - we simply didn't know much about
marching technique back then (still don't), and certainly not enough
to equip his kids with the skills they needed to march that drill.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Don
> Famously exploited decades ago by the Stanford band when their football team was
> playing the USC Trojans...
>
> -- Catherine
That is funny as the director I was assistant to........was the
previous assistant at that same High School. The head director at that
time went from that HS job to head director of bands at USC and has
been there every since ( as far as I know). I never knew him.....but
Dr. Arthur C. Bartner.
You must admit he must be the ultimate promoter,,,,,,,hasn't that band
been on TV and in the movies more than any other college or HS band???
Jeff Ream
dude, i used to give you some credit...now i give your views on marching little
to none after this
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice)
>Date: 8/13/2003 6:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>
Jeff Ream
"I'm the drummer your guard captain warned you about"
Jeff Ream
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: njthu...@aol.com (NJThundrRD)
>Date: 8/13/2003 12:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030813124638...@mb-m24.aol.com>
>
>How could you not know that zingali taught Two Seven?
>
>Maybe your website should be called...
>
>marchingkindasortaresearch.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jerome Kimbrough
> > >Whomever says Zingali was not about technique is talking right out of
> > >their ass. He was one of the best at teaching great technique. He was
> > >maniacal about it. He even developed the roll step with the Lancers
> > >and the touch-and-go with the Cadets. Get a clue.
>
> I've never seen anyone able to explain "touch-and-go" well enough to
> change my opinion that it is developed by and for people who cannot
> control movement. But you're welcome to take a crack at it.
>
controlling body movement.Upper body movement shoud be controlled by
the upper body and center of gravity.If you are using touch and go to
control what the upper body is doing without upper body contol as
well,what you get is the corps and the year that YOU marched
in.(Although I m ust say that they move WONDERFULLY these days.
If you come to DCA I will make you march correctly,or not.;o)
Stuart Rice
> ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice) wrote in message news:<d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>...
> > njthu...@aol.com (NJThundrRD) wrote in message news:<20030813093347...@mb-m24.aol.com>...
> > > Technique always sucked?
> >
> > During Zingali's tenure, generally and frankly speaking, yes.
> >
> > > There are pictures of baritones backing up at 5 to the 5 at over
> > > 180bpm with our toes all pointing down and perfectly matched at the
> > > ankles on the "and count".....
> >
> > Bad technique and uniformity are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
> >
> >
> > Stuart E. Rice
> > www.marchingresearch.com
>
> How about uniformity of technique.
Uniformity of technique is what I was referring to (that is the topic
at hand, isn't it). I'll get a little more specific for you: "Bad
technique and uniform technique are not necessarily mutually
exclusive."
> Or the fact that technique existed in some places and NOT in others.
I'm not interested in arguing that. You can make the argument that
shit is technique.
> You are WAY off base,recheck your videos,ass clown.
> ;o)
Watch your mouth, kid.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
wsplrll
If you are using touch and go to
> control what the upper body is doing without upper body contol as
> well,what you get is the corps and the year that YOU marched.....
That was a good one Jerome !
Stuart Rice
> touch and go is for people who cant crontrol themselves?
Jeff, you're quickly becoming a superfan. What makes you so obsessed with me?
> dude, i used to give you some credit...
LOL! :D
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Stuart Rice
> > I've never seen anyone able to explain "touch-and-go" well enough to
> > change my opinion that it is developed by and for people who cannot
> > control movement. But you're welcome to take a crack at it.
> By touch and go,you mean tap step/tendu,right?
That's been my understanding.
> Its all about controlling body movement.
That's what technique is about as well. Unfortunately, we seem to
have developed the inclination to march faster than our technical
skills can handle (particularly in the 90s). Hence, the development
of "touch-and-go," which is for corps with weak feet.
> Upper body movement shoud be controlled by the upper body and center of gravity.
I appreciate your point, but don't you think your feet are involved in
the process as well? There are two basic definitions of walking - (1)
the feet propel the body forward, and (2) gravity propels the body
forward (via falling forward). I saw enough falling in the Cadets
1995 show to last me a lifetime.
> If you are using touch and go to
> control what the upper body is doing without upper body contol as
> well,what you get is the corps and the year that YOU marched
> in.(Although I m ust say that they move WONDERFULLY these days.
> If you come to DCA I will make you march correctly,or not.;o)
I'm having a little trouble understanding you (speak in complete
sentences, please). However, I gather you are advocating the second
method of locomotion in marching. This method does not lend itself to
controlled movement nearly as well as the first.
Further, the only thing the upper body ought to be controlling is the
instrument and posture. The structure maintains itself. The arms are
a balancing mechanism, and only effective through involuntary movement
in this regard. All forward, backward, and lateral movement must be
controlled by the lower body (particularly the feet) in order to be
truly controlled. Otherwise, its just another variation on the ugly
process of falling.
John Opedisano used to say 'I don't care what you say - you can't
march well with weak feet.'
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Jordsterr
That line was so infuential that it became my personal saying for a while with
bands and corps alike. Of course, edited for school situations. :}
Jordi Vilanova
Jordsterr
>your name is the first I've learned!"
>
LOL. Another thing I learned from George. Whenever I'm in front of a new
band, if some kid is talking a little too much, I immediately ask their name.
Then I announce "Hey everyone, I just learned "name"'s name. They always get
it.
Thanks George. :}
Jordi Vilanova
Jordsterr
Their overall concept of technique was wonderful than and now. Many corps are
using parts or all of the the Cadets technique. I even saw certain ideas in,
of all places, the Marine Drum Corps at DCI.
Jordi Vilanova
>Stuart Rice: "Zingali was in too big a hurry to express something to
>worry about how it
> was expressed (via marching technique). That's why their
>technique always sucked. He
> did not lay a good technical foundation, and that may be a good
>reason why they are not
> as interested in marching today."
>
>That was not the case(at least when I was there)
>
>J
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jordsterr
>in '83. I'm sure you remember how they acted (especially the boys in blue).
I do remember wanting to throw up at the awful foot technique of the blue crew
at one of their 80's championship years. I do have to say that they, now, move
better than almost anyone. Of course they changed to a marching technique
that's remarkably similar to a corps from the East. Hmmm. :}
Jordi Vilanova
Jeff Ream
hey dork, his resume blows your away any day. started w.Bayonne, went to Cadets
and has been w/Bush for years and years...you stopped in what 83 when you cried
yourself to sleep about 2nd place?
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice)
>Date: 8/14/2003 1:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>
Jeff Ream
before.
for a marching expert, it is startiung to seem more n more you dont know your
ass from a gloryhole.
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice)
>Date: 8/14/2003 1:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>
>
Jerome Kimbrough
> Bushma...@yahoo.com (Jerome Kimbrough) wrote in message news:<b01fc6a8.03081...@posting.google.com>...
> > ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice) wrote in message news:<d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>...
> > > njthu...@aol.com (NJThundrRD) wrote in message news:<20030813093347...@mb-m24.aol.com>...
> > > > Technique always sucked?
> > >
> > > During Zingali's tenure, generally and frankly speaking, yes.
> > >
> > > > There are pictures of baritones backing up at 5 to the 5 at over
> > > > 180bpm with our toes all pointing down and perfectly matched at the
> > > > ankles on the "and count".....
> > >
> > > Bad technique and uniformity are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
> > >
> > >
> > > Stuart E. Rice
> > > www.marchingresearch.com
> >
> > How about uniformity of technique.
>
> Uniformity of technique is what I was referring to (that is the topic
> at hand, isn't it). I'll get a little more specific for you: "Bad
> technique and uniform technique are not necessarily mutually
> exclusive."
>
> > Or the fact that technique existed in some places and NOT in others.
>
> I'm not interested in arguing that. You can make the argument that
> shit is technique.
>
> > You are WAY off base,recheck your videos,ass clown.
> > ;o)
>
> Watch your mouth, kid.
>
Im 37 years old 6'5".I dont think you"d call me a kid if I was in YOUR
face.If you wernt such a pompous loudmouth Id actually like the paper
you wrote.It has lots of good things in it.Im surprised YOU wrote it.
Stuart Rice
> If you wernt such a pompous loudmouth Id actually like the paper you wrote.
Another great example of the shit-for-brains kids created by this
activity. More interested in personalities than knowledge.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Stuart Rice
> you stopped in what 83 when you cried yourself to sleep about 2nd place?
You've been sucking up to me for how long now, answering every other
post I make, and you don't even know I marched drum corps for less
than 2 months? How big a moron are you, Jeff?
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
GEORGE 82
>yourself to sleep about 2nd place?
20 years later he's still cryin'. Give it a rest.
What else would you expect from someone who doesn't attend live shows, analyzes
drum corps on video tape, and writes papers about a whole lot of nothing. Do
we have a real-life Rupert Pupkin here???
"Have you ever kissed a girl??? ....Get out of your parent's basements and get
a life!" -William Shatner on SNL
Stuart Rice
Stu wrote:
>>Further, the only thing the upper body ought to be controlling is
the
>>instrument and posture. The structure maintains itself. The arms
are
>>a balancing mechanism, and only effective through involuntary
movement
>>in this regard. All forward, backward, and lateral movement must be
>>controlled by the lower body (particularly the feet) in order to be
>>truly controlled. Otherwise, its just another variation on the ugly
>>process of falling.
>...correctamundo! Although lately I've been emphasizing the hips
>as the main reference for students.
I find it helpful if I concentrate on lifting the instrument first –
If you look at these kids in drum corps, you notice the biggest
problem working against them is they can't stand up straight and hold
an instrument at the same time, let alone march while doing these
things. I think we do them a great disservice by teaching them slides
before they can stand and lift properly, or even change direction with
control (*without* pivot).
>The feet *enable* the largest muscle group
>in the body (upper legs) along with the abdominals and lower back
>to control CG (I'm sure you noticed the poster's error ascribing
>"control" to a body's center of gravity...heh.). :-P
Actually, I might have given him credit for this – center of gravity
can be said to control all movement (unless acted on) – the best kind
of control. But he doesn't seem to understand that the feet most
effectively articulate all forces that act on the center of gravity.
>Are you going to DCAs?
It wouldn't be productive. I'd rather save the cash for a clinic.
I'm going to post this for you. Claim it if you dare. :)
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Jerome Kimbrough
Right neener neener neer to you mr
www.marchingkindasortaresearchandsoundlikeIhaveacluebutIdontassclown.com
Jerome Kimbrough
> jeffs...@aol.comspamthis (Jeff Ream) wrote in message news:<20030815081627...@mb-m24.aol.com>...
>
> > you stopped in what 83 when you cried yourself to sleep about 2nd place?
, and you don't even know I marched drum corps for less
> than 2 months?
>
>
> Stuart E. Rice
> www.marchinghalfassedresearch.com
Oh we know.Its in between every diarrhea of the mouth/hand thing you
write.You must love the sound of your own voice,too.
Jerome Kimbrough
A)I dont care about pompous windbag know it alls such as yourself.I
actually DO SOMETHING with my "limited knowledge".Your alleged
personality is boring me.
B)I am ALWAYS interested in gaining knowledge.Do you have any to
offer?;o)
Stuart Rice
> >you stopped in what 83 when you cried
> >yourself to sleep about 2nd place?
>
> 20 years later he's still cryin'. Give it a rest.
But I can't. I can remember it like it was yesterday. What a
nightmare!
I had just finished my second year of marching professionally the
summer before, playing Carnegie Hall and Europe with a national honor
band a year before that (a few weeks later being invited to solo with
one of the country's half-dozen professional orchestras), and then -
horror of horrors - after marching with a defending DCI champion corps
for a couple of months and winning "Best Brass Ensemble" at I&E, I
MISSED BEING A DCI "WORLD" CHAMPION BY .6 POINT (*sob*).
Oh god! Two months of my life wasted! All my chances for immortal
glory blasted! And all because of a drill genius named Zingali, the
likes of which neither of the winningest corps in Drum Corps
"International" have since been able to produce.
... and so a couple of weeks later I left for NYC to spend my
Juilliard scholarship - (*sob*) - scarred for life. (*sarcasm off*)
> What else would you expect from someone who doesn't attend live shows,
> analyzes drum corps on video tape, and writes papers about a whole lot of
> nothing. Do we have a real-life Rupert Pupkin here???
In the unlikely event anyone intelligent is reading this trash: I've
attended drum corps shows in Ogden, Scranton, and one Blast show in
the last year. I don't know Rupert Pupkin (I'm sure George here could
tell you all about him), but if you're interested in reading someone
who likes to think about what he's watching, my Scranton and Blast
reviews are on the gRAMDie nomination form.
> "Have you ever kissed a girl???
This may come as a surprise to you, but it's difficulty to be married
12 years without kissing a girl. Let me know when your voice changes,
and I'll explain it to you.
>....Get out of your parent's basements and get a life!" -William
Shatner on >SNL
... quoting William Shatner on SNL about living in "your parent's
basement". I can see how that would be a memorable statement for you.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Jeff Ream
i wanna see him leave you eating dust
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice)
>Date: 8/15/2003 12:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>
>
Jeff Ream
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice)
>Date: 8/15/2003 12:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d12adb54.0308...@posting.google.com>
Stuart Rice
> B)I am ALWAYS interested in gaining knowledge.Do you have any to
> offer?;o)
Been doing it since 1995:
www.geocities.com/marchingresearch/ramsym.html
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Stuart Rice
> oh Stu...challenge him to a march off at DCA.
Experience suggests you wussies don't have the balls to show up.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Andyroo111
>> B)I am ALWAYS interested in gaining knowledge.Do you have any to
>> offer?;o)
Stuart wrote:
>
>Been doing it since 1995:
>
>www.geocities.com/marchingresearch/ramsym.html
>
>
>Stuart E. Rice
>www.marchingresearch.com
>
>
So Stuart, was this after both of your months in drum corps?
Andy
Andyroo111
watching you walk all over the place shouting, "I'm Stuart Rice, the marching
guru!!"
Andy - one of those who will NOT say, "Hey Stuart, over here!"
Mike Poche
>jeffs...@aol.comspamthis (Jeff Ream) wrote in message
>news:<20030816073554...@mb-m18.aol.com>...
>
>> oh Stu...challenge him to a march off at DCA.
>
>Experience suggests you wussies don't have the balls to show up.
Hey, I showed up...........oh, I guess I'm not a wussie :-)
The OTHER Mike
Sis
>
>Been doing it since 1995:
>
>
Hehehehe. Stuart, you were a late bloomer! ;-)
Jackie
>
>
Stuart Rice
> >
> >> B)I am ALWAYS interested in gaining knowledge.Do you have any to
> >> offer?;o)
>
> Stuart wrote:
> >
> >Been doing it since 1995:
> >
> >www.geocities.com/marchingresearch/ramsym.html
> So Stuart, was this after both of your months in drum corps?
>
> Andy
Well, *duh*.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Jeff Ream
i just claimed you're a fraud.
i wont speak for Jerome as he is probably drying off and/or celebrating
halloween w/Bush
see, he still does drum corps
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice)
>Date: 8/16/2003 4:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>
Stuart Rice
> >
> >jeffs...@aol.comspamthis (Jeff Ream) wrote in message
> >news:<20030816073554...@mb-m18.aol.com>...
> >
> >> oh Stu...challenge him to a march off at DCA.
> >
> >Experience suggests you wussies don't have the balls to show up.
> >
> >
> >Stuart E. Rice
> >www.marchingresearch.com
> >
> >
> Stuart, everybody was there; they just didn't tell you.
Either that, or Mike Poche and I (as he mentioned) *were* the only
ones there, and you're the one having a psychotic break. ;]
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Andyroo111
>> So Stuart, was this after both of your months in drum corps?
>>
>> Andy
>
>Well, *duh*.
>
>
>Stuart E. Rice
>www.marchingresearch.com
>
>
>
>
corps... and you're spending all this time and energy telling us how to do it.
What's wrong with this picture?
Andy
Jerome Kimbrough
Name the place,assclown.(Since this is turning into a WWE thread)
;o)
Blindfolded basics.Can you dig it? sucka.
Jeff Ream
the world.
(insert next WWE line)
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: Bushma...@yahoo.com (Jerome Kimbrough)
>Date: 8/17/2003 10:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <b01fc6a8.03081...@posting.google.com>
Jerome Kimbrough
> this coming from a 6 time, 6 time, 6 time, 6 time, 6 time, 6 time champion. of
> the world.
>
>
> (insert next WWE line)
>
>
>
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Jeff Ream
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: Bushma...@yahoo.com (Jerome Kimbrough)
>Date: 8/18/2003 8:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <b01fc6a8.03081...@posting.google.com>
>
Jerome Kimbrough
> > > >Whomever says Zingali was not about technique is talking right out of
> > > >their ass. He was one of the best at teaching great technique. He was
> > > >maniacal about it. He even developed the roll step with the Lancers
> > > >and the touch-and-go with the Cadets. Get a clue.
> >
> > I've never seen anyone able to explain "touch-and-go" well enough to
> > change my opinion that it is developed by and for people who cannot
> > control movement. But you're welcome to take a crack at it.
> >
>
> By touch and go,you mean tap step/tendu,right?Its all about
> controlling body movement.Upper body movement shoud be controlled by
> the upper body and center of gravity.If you are using touch and go to
> control what the upper body is doing without upper body contol as
> well,what you get is the corps and the year that YOU marched
> in.(Although I m ust say that they move WONDERFULLY these days.
> If you come to DCA I will make you march correctly,or not.;o)
Your response speaks volumes.Do I hear crickets?
;o)
Stuart Rice
> >
> >> So Stuart, was this after both of your months in drum corps?
> >>
> >> Andy
> >
> >Well, *duh*.
> So Stuart, you're telling me that you have two months' experience in drum
> corps... and you're spending all this time and energy telling us how to do it.
>
> What's wrong with this picture?
LOL! An intelligent argument, stated politely. Everyone write your
congressman to declare today a holiday.
I'm telling you how to march based on my own experience, research, and
application. At times, I also offer insights into the medium, based
on my experience with other media, and my understanding of how they
work, how they have developed, and the creative context they occupy
among the arts.
Take it or leave it, but if all you can do is call it "bullshit," it
suggests you feel threatened by it.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Stuart Rice
> > jeffs...@aol.comspamthis (Jeff Ream) wrote in message news:<20030816073554...@mb-m18.aol.com>...
> >
> > > oh Stu...challenge him to a march off at DCA.
> >
> > Experience suggests you wussies don't have the balls to show up.
> >
> >
> > Stuart E. Rice
> > www.marchingresearch.com
>
> Name the place,assclown.
My place. And if you don't clean up your language between now and
then, its off.
> Blindfolded basics.Can you dig it? sucka.
I've been teaching blindfolded basics (with twelve directional
variables) for 15 years. sucka.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
GEORGE 82
I would like to officially nominate Stuart Rice's "marching research" as the
Jerry Seinfeld of drum corps because it's about a whole lot of nothing.
Greg Gilman
> I would like to officially nominate Stuart Rice's "marching research" as the
> Jerry Seinfeld of drum corps because it's about a whole lot of nothing.
ROFL! How very true.
Don't forget. Stuart claims his 16 person high school marching band beats
the Blue Devils when judged using Planar Analysis. Those results certainly
tell us everything we need to know about his little "marching research"
theories.
See you on the 50,
- Greg
------------------------------------
Greg Gilman
Evil Baritone/Webmaster
Renegades Drum & Bugle Corps
http://www.renegades.org
"The view is better from the field."
------------------------------------
Stuart Rice
> it isn't your best work
So what do you think is my "best work"?
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Jerome Kimbrough
> Bushma...@yahoo.com (Jerome Kimbrough) wrote in message news:<b01fc6a8.03081...@posting.google.com>...
> > ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice) wrote in message news:<d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>...
> > > jeffs...@aol.comspamthis (Jeff Ream) wrote in message news:<20030816073554...@mb-m18.aol.com>...
> > >
> > > > oh Stu...challenge him to a march off at DCA.
> > >
> > > Experience suggests you wussies don't have the balls to show up.
> > >
> > >
> > > Stuart E. Rice
> > > www.marchingresearch.com
> >
> > Name the place,assclown.
>
> My place. And if you don't clean up your language between now and
> then, its off.
>
> > Blindfolded basics.Can you dig it? sucka.
>
> I've been teaching blindfolded basics (with twelve directional
> variables) for 15 years. sucka.
>
>
> Stuart E. Rice
> www.marchingresearch.com
Saying you can teach something means a whole lot to someone somewhere.
I on the other hand have been teaching it and performing it for 23
years.
Name the place(within reason you ASS CLOWN).If you cant handle the
word ass,then pretend its this ###.I refuse to censor myself cause
youre offended.
Peace out.
Jeff Ream
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: geor...@aol.com (GEORGE 82)
>Date: 8/18/2003 1:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030818135247...@mb-m15.aol.com>
Jeff Ream
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice)
>Date: 8/18/2003 3:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>
Stuart Rice
> ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice) wrote in message news:<d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>...
> > Bushma...@yahoo.com (Jerome Kimbrough) wrote in message news:<b01fc6a8.03081...@posting.google.com>...
> > > ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice) wrote in message news:<d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>...
> > > > jeffs...@aol.comspamthis (Jeff Ream) wrote in message news:<20030816073554...@mb-m18.aol.com>...
> > > >
> > > > > oh Stu...challenge him to a march off at DCA.
> > > >
> > > > Experience suggests you wussies don't have the balls to show up.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Stuart E. Rice
> > > > www.marchingresearch.com
> > >
> > > Name the place,assclown.
> >
> > My place. And if you don't clean up your language between now and
> > then, its off.
> >
> > > Blindfolded basics.Can you dig it? sucka.
> >
> > I've been teaching blindfolded basics (with twelve directional
> > variables) for 15 years. sucka.
> Saying you can teach something means a whole lot to someone somewhere.
"been teaching" means I've taught.
> I on the other hand have been teaching it and performing it for 23
> years.
26 years, myself.
> Name the place(within reason you ASS CLOWN).If you cant handle the
> word ass,then pretend its this ###.I refuse to censor myself cause
> youre offended.
> Peace out.
If you can't treat your opponent with a minimum amount of respect (and
can't handle a simple request like curbing your foul manners for a
little while), you aren't a serious contender. Later. "Next, please.
... Someone who cares more about marching than swearing this time
...."
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Stuart Rice
> Don't forget. Stuart claims his 16 person high school marching band beats
> the Blue Devils when judged using Planar Analysis. Those results certainly
> tell us everything we need to know about his little "marching research"
> theories.
For the record, the only thing I recall claiming about the PA of my
little HS band was that they have the highest mark I've yet recorded
in Balance and Variety of movement types (2 out of 10 PA categories)
... and that's obviously something that isn't too hard to do when your
choreographer happens to be the founder of PA (particularly if you
think its horse shit). Like most of my critics, you haven't done your
homework, Greg.
For more information on Planar Analysis, visit:
www.geocities.com/flatlandpress/PA.html
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Stuart Rice
> By touch and go,you mean tap step/tendu,right?Its all about
> controlling body movement.Upper body movement shoud be controlled by
> the upper body and center of gravity.If you are using touch and go to
> control what the upper body is doing without upper body contol as
> well,what you get is the corps and the year that YOU marched
> in.(Although I m ust say that they move WONDERFULLY these days.
> If you come to DCA I will make you march correctly,or not.;o)
My response to this post can be found in the new thread, "touch and go ...".
Stuart E. Rice
www,marchingresearch.com
Stuart Rice
> >www.geocities.com/marchingresearch/ramsym.html
> >
> >
> >Stuart E. Rice
> >www.marchingresearch.com
> I would like to officially nominate Stuart Rice's "marching research" as the
> Jerry Seinfeld of drum corps because it's about a whole lot of nothing.
For the record, I do not consider the works of other authors at the
link cited above my own "marching research". It belongs to those to
whom these works are credited. I am merely the "janitor" at this
website.
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com
Jeff Ream
hysterical
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice)
>Date: 8/19/2003 12:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>
>
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice)
>Date: 8/19/2003 12:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>
>
Jeff Ream
who says your way is right besides you?
>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>From: ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice)
>Date: 8/19/2003 1:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d12adb54.03081...@posting.google.com>
>
Mike Poche
>For more information on Planar Analysis, visit:
How about a link to the cliff notes for those of us with short attention spans
?
The OTHER Mike
Mike Poche
>>Subject: Re: Surviving Zingali
>>From: ser...@juno.com (Stuart Rice)
>>So what do you think is my "best work"?
>the days you dont post at all.
OUCH !
The OTHER Mike
NJThundrRD
NJThundrRD
up!
= )
NJThundrRD
Jerome Kimbrough
> If you can't treat your opponent with a minimum amount of respect (and
> can't handle a simple request like curbing your foul manners for a
> little while), you aren't a serious contender. Later. "Next, please.
> ... Someone who cares more about marching than swearing this time
> ...."
>
>
> Stuart E. Rice
> www.marchingresearch.com
Fine.Excuse my trenchant mouth Massa Stu.And since me saying ### is
your excuse for bowing out of a "march off"I declare myself the
winner.
Peace out.
As for earning respect.Good luck with that.
Stuart Rice
> >If you can't treat your opponent with a minimum amount of respect (and
> >can't handle a simple request like curbing your foul manners for a
> >little while), you aren't a serious contender. Later. "Next, please.
> > ... Someone who cares more about marching than swearing this time
> >...."
> stuart talking baout treating people with respect.
>
>
> hysterical
So you think I was a little hard on him?
Stuart E. Rice
www.marchingresearch.com