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solar penguin
Feb 25, 2017, 3:09:31 PM2/25/17
to
And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
drivelling on The Dæmons.
=<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
Episode One.
The episode gets off to a dramatic start, with a night that's dark
and stormy enough for Bulwer-Lytton himself. There's stock
footage of a toad and a cat, and later an owl, to keep Tim happy,
as well as new footage of a man walking his dog. The man sees
something in the churchyard that causes him to die of fright. But
what does he see? (If it's Bok, as the sound effect suggests,
then what has the Master brought him to life to do that night?)
Jo Grant now seems to be a believer in "the occult... the
supernatural and all that magic bit," despite not having shown any
sign of interest in it at all in any previous stories. If I
didn't know better, I'd say it was a sign of the writer not being
familiar with her characterisation. Instead, it's more like a
sign of the writer not caring about her characterisation.
Bessie is in a different garage from the one in DWATS. Does that
mean this is a different UNIT HQ? Or just a different garage?
"In this cavern, the witches of the 17th century hid from the fires
of Matthew Hopkins, witch-hunter extraordianary."
IIRC his witch-finding career mainly took place in East Anglia.
Could this tell us something about the location of Devil's End?
(Either way, it's nice to know that there's someone played by
Vincent Price in the Whoniverse. Sort of.)
No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
Alistair Fergus and Professor Horner both mention the famous curse
of Devil's End. But we never find out what the curse is, or who
was cursed by whom, or anything else about it.
"I've cast the runes," says Miss Hawthorne.
Is this a deliberate reference to M.R. James?
When Miss Hawthorne is caught in that gust of wind, it reminded me
of struggling against Storm Doris the other day. Maybe I
should've tried chanting "Avaunt, all ye elementals," at it...?
Clunky exposition time. Miss Hawthorne goes to the vicarage to
speak to Canon Smallwood even though she knows he "left in such
mysterious circumstances" days or weeks ago.
"I'll do my best to be absolutely super."
There's some great dialogue between Professor Horner and the BBC3
crew. Shame they didn't remain for the rest of the story.
What caused the signpost to spin? Did the Master somehow do it
deliberately, even though he hasn't begun the ritual yet? Or was
it just a random wind elemental doing it by chance?
A great, really effective cliffhanger, with all kinds of unseen
forces being unleashed as Professor Horner breaks into the tomb.
It makes you want to watch again to find out what's happened, not
just what happens next.
And finally, for some really petty nitpicking, Bert and
Winstanley's credits aren't centred in the closing titles.
drivelling on The Dæmons.
=<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
Episode One.
The episode gets off to a dramatic start, with a night that's dark
and stormy enough for Bulwer-Lytton himself. There's stock
footage of a toad and a cat, and later an owl, to keep Tim happy,
as well as new footage of a man walking his dog. The man sees
something in the churchyard that causes him to die of fright. But
what does he see? (If it's Bok, as the sound effect suggests,
then what has the Master brought him to life to do that night?)
Jo Grant now seems to be a believer in "the occult... the
supernatural and all that magic bit," despite not having shown any
sign of interest in it at all in any previous stories. If I
didn't know better, I'd say it was a sign of the writer not being
familiar with her characterisation. Instead, it's more like a
sign of the writer not caring about her characterisation.
Bessie is in a different garage from the one in DWATS. Does that
mean this is a different UNIT HQ? Or just a different garage?
"In this cavern, the witches of the 17th century hid from the fires
of Matthew Hopkins, witch-hunter extraordianary."
IIRC his witch-finding career mainly took place in East Anglia.
Could this tell us something about the location of Devil's End?
(Either way, it's nice to know that there's someone played by
Vincent Price in the Whoniverse. Sort of.)
No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
Alistair Fergus and Professor Horner both mention the famous curse
of Devil's End. But we never find out what the curse is, or who
was cursed by whom, or anything else about it.
"I've cast the runes," says Miss Hawthorne.
Is this a deliberate reference to M.R. James?
When Miss Hawthorne is caught in that gust of wind, it reminded me
of struggling against Storm Doris the other day. Maybe I
should've tried chanting "Avaunt, all ye elementals," at it...?
Clunky exposition time. Miss Hawthorne goes to the vicarage to
speak to Canon Smallwood even though she knows he "left in such
mysterious circumstances" days or weeks ago.
"I'll do my best to be absolutely super."
There's some great dialogue between Professor Horner and the BBC3
crew. Shame they didn't remain for the rest of the story.
What caused the signpost to spin? Did the Master somehow do it
deliberately, even though he hasn't begun the ritual yet? Or was
it just a random wind elemental doing it by chance?
A great, really effective cliffhanger, with all kinds of unseen
forces being unleashed as Professor Horner breaks into the tomb.
It makes you want to watch again to find out what's happened, not
just what happens next.
And finally, for some really petty nitpicking, Bert and
Winstanley's credits aren't centred in the closing titles.
Tim Bruening
Feb 25, 2017, 4:14:25 PM2/25/17
to
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> drivelling on The Dæmons.
>
> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
>
> Episode One.
>
> The episode gets off to a dramatic start, with a night that's dark
> and stormy enough for Bulwer-Lytton himself. There's stock
> footage of a toad and a cat, and later an owl, to keep Tim happy,
> as well as new footage of a man walking his dog. The man sees
> something in the churchyard that causes him to die of fright. But
> what does he see? (If it's Bok, as the sound effect suggests,
> then what has the Master brought him to life to do that night?)
So the man wasn't walking his do in the original version?
> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> drivelling on The Dæmons.
>
> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
>
> Episode One.
>
> The episode gets off to a dramatic start, with a night that's dark
> and stormy enough for Bulwer-Lytton himself. There's stock
> footage of a toad and a cat, and later an owl, to keep Tim happy,
> as well as new footage of a man walking his dog. The man sees
> something in the churchyard that causes him to die of fright. But
> what does he see? (If it's Bok, as the sound effect suggests,
> then what has the Master brought him to life to do that night?)
> No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
> how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
> left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
> with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
> documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
>
> Alistair Fergus and Professor Horner both mention the famous curse
> of Devil's End. But we never find out what the curse is, or who
> was cursed by whom, or anything else about it.
Maybe you are supposed to Google it!
> Alistair Fergus and Professor Horner both mention the famous curse
> of Devil's End. But we never find out what the curse is, or who
> was cursed by whom, or anything else about it.
The Doctor
Feb 25, 2017, 4:15:41 PM2/25/17
to
In article <ccb00f52-e314-40f1...@googlegroups.com>,
The BBC3 referred to was an early attemp of the BBC to get 3 or 4 stations.
Parliament nicked that IIRC.
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
God is dead! Yahweh lives! Jesus his only begotten Son is the Risen Saviour!!
Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
>> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
>> drivelling on The Dæmons.
>>
>> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
>>
>> Episode One.
>>
>> The episode gets off to a dramatic start, with a night that's dark
>> and stormy enough for Bulwer-Lytton himself. There's stock
>> footage of a toad and a cat, and later an owl, to keep Tim happy,
>> as well as new footage of a man walking his dog. The man sees
>> something in the churchyard that causes him to die of fright. But
>> what does he see? (If it's Bok, as the sound effect suggests,
>> then what has the Master brought him to life to do that night?)
>
>So the man wasn't walking his do in the original version?
>
>> No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
>> how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
>> left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
>> with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
>> documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
>
>How old is the BBC3?
It is recent.
>On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
>> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
>> drivelling on The Dæmons.
>>
>> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
>>
>> Episode One.
>>
>> The episode gets off to a dramatic start, with a night that's dark
>> and stormy enough for Bulwer-Lytton himself. There's stock
>> footage of a toad and a cat, and later an owl, to keep Tim happy,
>> as well as new footage of a man walking his dog. The man sees
>> something in the churchyard that causes him to die of fright. But
>> what does he see? (If it's Bok, as the sound effect suggests,
>> then what has the Master brought him to life to do that night?)
>
>So the man wasn't walking his do in the original version?
>
>> No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
>> how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
>> left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
>> with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
>> documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
>
>How old is the BBC3?
The BBC3 referred to was an early attemp of the BBC to get 3 or 4 stations.
Parliament nicked that IIRC.
>>
>> Alistair Fergus and Professor Horner both mention the famous curse
>> of Devil's End. But we never find out what the curse is, or who
>> was cursed by whom, or anything else about it.
>
>Maybe you are supposed to Google it!
--
>> Alistair Fergus and Professor Horner both mention the famous curse
>> of Devil's End. But we never find out what the curse is, or who
>> was cursed by whom, or anything else about it.
>
>Maybe you are supposed to Google it!
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
God is dead! Yahweh lives! Jesus his only begotten Son is the Risen Saviour!!
solar penguin
Feb 25, 2017, 4:23:01 PM2/25/17
to
On Saturday, 25 February 2017 21:14:25 UTC, Tim Bruening wrote:
> On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> > And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> > drivelling on The Dæmons.
> >
> > =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
> >
> > Episode One.
> >
> > The episode gets off to a dramatic start, with a night that's dark
> > and stormy enough for Bulwer-Lytton himself. There's stock
> > footage of a toad and a cat, and later an owl, to keep Tim happy,
> > as well as new footage of a man walking his dog. The man sees
> > something in the churchyard that causes him to die of fright. But
> > what does he see? (If it's Bok, as the sound effect suggests,
> > then what has the Master brought him to life to do that night?)
>
> So the man wasn't walking his do in the original version?
What? I mean the man walking his dog is part of the material shot
> On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> > And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> > drivelling on The Dæmons.
> >
> > =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
> >
> > Episode One.
> >
> > The episode gets off to a dramatic start, with a night that's dark
> > and stormy enough for Bulwer-Lytton himself. There's stock
> > footage of a toad and a cat, and later an owl, to keep Tim happy,
> > as well as new footage of a man walking his dog. The man sees
> > something in the churchyard that causes him to die of fright. But
> > what does he see? (If it's Bok, as the sound effect suggests,
> > then what has the Master brought him to life to do that night?)
>
> So the man wasn't walking his do in the original version?
for The Dæmons, while the other animals are just various clips of
old stock footage edited in.
>
> > No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
> > how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
> > left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
> > with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
> > documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
>
> How old is the BBC3?
replaced by an online-only version.
> >
> > Alistair Fergus and Professor Horner both mention the famous curse
> > of Devil's End. But we never find out what the curse is, or who
> > was cursed by whom, or anything else about it.
>
> Maybe you are supposed to Google it!
The Doctor
Feb 25, 2017, 4:23:47 PM2/25/17
to
Tim Bruening
Feb 25, 2017, 7:19:10 PM2/25/17
to
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> drivelling on The Dæmons.
>
> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
>
> Episode One.
>
> drivelling on The Dæmons.
>
> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
>
> Episode One.
>
> Jo Grant now seems to be a believer in "the occult... the
> supernatural and all that magic bit," despite not having shown any
> sign of interest in it at all in any previous stories. If I
> didn't know better, I'd say it was a sign of the writer not being
> familiar with her characterisation. Instead, it's more like a
> sign of the writer not caring about her characterisation.
I can only assume that Jo Grant had previously kept her interest in the occult hidden, and something happened to bring her out of the closet.
> supernatural and all that magic bit," despite not having shown any
> sign of interest in it at all in any previous stories. If I
> didn't know better, I'd say it was a sign of the writer not being
> familiar with her characterisation. Instead, it's more like a
> sign of the writer not caring about her characterisation.
Tim Bruening
Feb 26, 2017, 4:56:50 PM2/26/17
to
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 1:15:41 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <ccb00f52-e314-40f1...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> >> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> >> drivelling on The Dæmons.
> >>
> >> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
> >>
> >> Episode One.
> >>
> >> The episode gets off to a dramatic start, with a night that's dark
> >> and stormy enough for Bulwer-Lytton himself. There's stock
> >> footage of a toad and a cat, and later an owl, to keep Tim happy,
> >> as well as new footage of a man walking his dog. The man sees
> >> something in the churchyard that causes him to die of fright. But
> >> what does he see? (If it's Bok, as the sound effect suggests,
> >> then what has the Master brought him to life to do that night?)
> >
> >So the man wasn't walking his do in the original version?
> >
> >> No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
> >> how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
> >> left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
> >> with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
> >> documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
> >
> >How old is the BBC3?
>
> It is recent.
>
> The BBC3 referred to was an early attemp of the BBC to get 3 or 4 stations.
When was the early BBC3?
> In article <ccb00f52-e314-40f1...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> >> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> >> drivelling on The Dæmons.
> >>
> >> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
> >>
> >> Episode One.
> >>
> >> The episode gets off to a dramatic start, with a night that's dark
> >> and stormy enough for Bulwer-Lytton himself. There's stock
> >> footage of a toad and a cat, and later an owl, to keep Tim happy,
> >> as well as new footage of a man walking his dog. The man sees
> >> something in the churchyard that causes him to die of fright. But
> >> what does he see? (If it's Bok, as the sound effect suggests,
> >> then what has the Master brought him to life to do that night?)
> >
> >So the man wasn't walking his do in the original version?
> >
> >> No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
> >> how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
> >> left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
> >> with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
> >> documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
> >
> >How old is the BBC3?
>
> It is recent.
>
> The BBC3 referred to was an early attemp of the BBC to get 3 or 4 stations.
The Doctor
Feb 26, 2017, 6:51:00 PM2/26/17
to
Tim Bruening
Feb 26, 2017, 8:44:31 PM2/26/17
to
The Doctor
Feb 27, 2017, 12:14:23 AM2/27/17
to
Tim Bruening
Mar 6, 2017, 11:51:30 PM3/6/17
to
When is part 2?
Tim Bruening
Mar 7, 2017, 3:44:34 AM3/7/17
to
The Pænguins: Antarctic birds that sing songs of praise?
Tim Bruening
Mar 10, 2017, 9:28:17 PM3/10/17
to
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 1:15:41 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <ccb00f52-e314-40f1...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> >> No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
> >> how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
> >> left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
> >> with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
> >> documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
> >
> >How old is the BBC3?
>
> It is recent.
>
> The BBC3 referred to was an early attemp of the BBC to get 3 or 4 stations.
>
> Parliament nicked that IIRC.
Why did the Parliament steal the BBC3?
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> >> No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
> >> how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
> >> left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
> >> with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
> >> documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
> >
> >How old is the BBC3?
>
> It is recent.
>
> The BBC3 referred to was an early attemp of the BBC to get 3 or 4 stations.
>
> Parliament nicked that IIRC.
Tim Bruening
Mar 10, 2017, 9:29:51 PM3/10/17
to
On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 9:14:23 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <b7722b1d-a6c3-44cd...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 3:51:00 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
> >> In article <732c4ad9-accd-483a...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >When was the early BBC3?
> >>
> >> It got rejected.
> >
> >WHEN was it being considered?
>
> In the 1970s.
Which places UNIT in the 1970s.
> In article <b7722b1d-a6c3-44cd...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 3:51:00 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
> >> In article <732c4ad9-accd-483a...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >When was the early BBC3?
> >>
> >> It got rejected.
> >
> >WHEN was it being considered?
>
> In the 1970s.
Why was it rejected?
The Doctor
Mar 11, 2017, 12:05:53 AM3/11/17
to
In article <818f98dc-ef73-4152...@googlegroups.com>,
Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 1:15:41 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <ccb00f52-e314-40f1...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
>
>> >> No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
>> >> how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
>> >> left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
>> >> with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
>> >> documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
>> >
>> >How old is the BBC3?
>>
>> It is recent.
>>
>> The BBC3 referred to was an early attemp of the BBC to get 3 or 4 stations.
>>
>> Parliament nicked that IIRC.
>
>Why did the Parliament steal the BBC3?
There was no steal.
>On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 1:15:41 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <ccb00f52-e314-40f1...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
>
>> >> No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
>> >> how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
>> >> left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
>> >> with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
>> >> documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
>> >
>> >How old is the BBC3?
>>
>> It is recent.
>>
>> The BBC3 referred to was an early attemp of the BBC to get 3 or 4 stations.
>>
>> Parliament nicked that IIRC.
>
>Why did the Parliament steal the BBC3?
The Doctor
Mar 11, 2017, 12:06:51 AM3/11/17
to
In article <d06a4022-1fd7-47e6...@googlegroups.com>,
>
>Why was it rejected?
Ask the Parliamentary Committee involved.
Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 9:14:23 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <b7722b1d-a6c3-44cd...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 3:51:00 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
>> >> In article <732c4ad9-accd-483a...@googlegroups.com>,
>> >> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> >When was the early BBC3?
>> >>
>> >> It got rejected.
>> >
>> >WHEN was it being considered?
>>
>> In the 1970s.
>
>Which places UNIT in the 1970s.
Late 1970s ealry 1980s.
>On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 9:14:23 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <b7722b1d-a6c3-44cd...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 3:51:00 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
>> >> In article <732c4ad9-accd-483a...@googlegroups.com>,
>> >> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> >When was the early BBC3?
>> >>
>> >> It got rejected.
>> >
>> >WHEN was it being considered?
>>
>> In the 1970s.
>
>Which places UNIT in the 1970s.
>
>Why was it rejected?
Ask the Parliamentary Committee involved.
Tim Bruening
Mar 11, 2017, 2:13:10 AM3/11/17
to
On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 9:05:53 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <818f98dc-ef73-4152...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 1:15:41 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
> >> In article <ccb00f52-e314-40f1...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> >
> >> >> No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
> >> >> how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
> >> >> left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
> >> >> with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
> >> >> documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
> >> >
> >> >How old is the BBC3?
> >>
> >> It is recent.
> >>
> >> The BBC3 referred to was an early attemp of the BBC to get 3 or 4 stations.
> >>
> >> Parliament nicked that IIRC.
> >
> >Why did the Parliament steal the BBC3?
>
> There was no steal.
You yourself said that Parliament had "nicked that". One meaning of "to nick" is "To steal".
> In article <818f98dc-ef73-4152...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 1:15:41 PM UTC-8, The Doctor wrote:
> >> In article <ccb00f52-e314-40f1...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> >
> >> >> No, I'm not even going to think about trying to speculate about
> >> >> how BBC3 fits into UNIT dating. I already have very little sanity
> >> >> left, and don't want to lose it! (If I had to speculate, I'd go
> >> >> with the idea that BBC3 could be the name of an umbrella slot for
> >> >> documentary series on BBC2, but even I'm not convinced by that.)
> >> >
> >> >How old is the BBC3?
> >>
> >> It is recent.
> >>
> >> The BBC3 referred to was an early attemp of the BBC to get 3 or 4 stations.
> >>
> >> Parliament nicked that IIRC.
> >
> >Why did the Parliament steal the BBC3?
>
> There was no steal.
The Doctor
Mar 11, 2017, 8:06:31 AM3/11/17
to
In article <c690fcfb-ff3f-4ac3...@googlegroups.com>,
To nick means to stop dead in its tracks like
President Obmama nicked the pipeline deal
in favour of the enviormental lobby.
President Obmama nicked the pipeline deal
in favour of the enviormental lobby.
Tim Bruening
Mar 11, 2017, 10:28:47 AM3/11/17
to
The Doctor
Mar 11, 2017, 5:19:08 PM3/11/17
to
Tim Bruening
Mar 15, 2017, 12:19:29 PM3/15/17
to
Tim Bruening
Mar 15, 2017, 12:20:02 PM3/15/17
to
When is part two?
The Doctor
Mar 15, 2017, 4:56:22 PM3/15/17
to
Tim Bruening
Mar 23, 2017, 1:32:29 PM3/23/17
to
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> "In this cavern, the witches of the 17th century hid from the fires
> of Matthew Hopkins, witch-hunter extraordianary."
> IIRC his witch-finding career mainly took place in East Anglia.
> Could this tell us something about the location of Devil's End?
How were fires used to locate witches?
> of Matthew Hopkins, witch-hunter extraordianary."
> IIRC his witch-finding career mainly took place in East Anglia.
> Could this tell us something about the location of Devil's End?
Tim Bruening
Apr 15, 2017, 3:28:48 PM4/15/17
to
When is your review of part 2, solar penguin?
Tim Bruening
Apr 18, 2017, 11:07:13 PM4/18/17
to
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> drivelling on The Dæmons.
>
> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
>
> Episode One.
>
> drivelling on The Dæmons.
>
> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
>
> Episode One.
>
> Jo Grant now seems to be a believer in "the occult... the
> supernatural and all that magic bit," despite not having shown any
> sign of interest in it at all in any previous stories. If I
> didn't know better, I'd say it was a sign of the writer not being
> familiar with her characterisation. Instead, it's more like a
> sign of the writer not caring about her characterisation.
It could be that she hid her interest for fear that UNIT would fire her if they knew!
> supernatural and all that magic bit," despite not having shown any
> sign of interest in it at all in any previous stories. If I
> didn't know better, I'd say it was a sign of the writer not being
> familiar with her characterisation. Instead, it's more like a
> sign of the writer not caring about her characterisation.
The Doctor
Apr 19, 2017, 9:16:50 AM4/19/17
to
In article <1c180a88-2ff5-474d...@googlegroups.com>,
She married Dr. jones that Jo Grant.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
BC Keep your province Healthy!! Vote Liberal.
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Tim Bruening
Apr 19, 2017, 12:42:45 PM4/19/17
to
On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 6:16:50 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <1c180a88-2ff5-474d...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> >> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> >> drivelling on The Dæmons.
> >>
> >> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
> >>
> >> Episode One.
> >>
> >
> >> Jo Grant now seems to be a believer in "the occult... the
> >> supernatural and all that magic bit," despite not having shown any
> >> sign of interest in it at all in any previous stories. If I
> >> didn't know better, I'd say it was a sign of the writer not being
> >> familiar with her characterisation. Instead, it's more like a
> >> sign of the writer not caring about her characterisation.
> >
> >It could be that she hid her interest for fear that UNIT would fire her
> >if they knew!
>
> She married Dr. jones that Jo Grant.
What does that have to do with why Jo have concealed her interest in the occult until now?
> In article <1c180a88-2ff5-474d...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> >> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> >> drivelling on The Dæmons.
> >>
> >> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
> >>
> >> Episode One.
> >>
> >
> >> Jo Grant now seems to be a believer in "the occult... the
> >> supernatural and all that magic bit," despite not having shown any
> >> sign of interest in it at all in any previous stories. If I
> >> didn't know better, I'd say it was a sign of the writer not being
> >> familiar with her characterisation. Instead, it's more like a
> >> sign of the writer not caring about her characterisation.
> >
> >It could be that she hid her interest for fear that UNIT would fire her
> >if they knew!
>
> She married Dr. jones that Jo Grant.
Tim Bruening
Apr 20, 2017, 8:16:53 PM4/20/17
to
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 12:28:48 PM UTC-7, Tim Bruening wrote:
> When is your review of part 2, solar penguin?
Pretty please with cherries on top.
> When is your review of part 2, solar penguin?
Tim Bruening
May 14, 2017, 3:33:14 PM5/14/17
to
Tim Bruening
Aug 3, 2017, 4:29:33 AM8/3/17
to
What is the ETA of part 2, solar penguin?
Tim Bruening
Aug 3, 2017, 4:33:36 AM8/3/17
to
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 1:23:01 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> > > of Devil's End. But we never find out what the curse is, or who
> > > was cursed by whom, or anything else about it.
> >
> > Maybe you are supposed to Google it!
>
> I don't think Barry Letts knew about Google when writing this story.
I am saddened to know that he didn't have precognition, or Martha's time phone.
> On Saturday, 25 February 2017 21:14:25 UTC, Tim Bruening wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> > > And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> > > drivelling on The Dæmons.
> > >
> > > =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
> > >
> > > Episode One.
> > >
>
> > >
> > > Alistair Fergus and Professor Horner both mention the famous curse
> > On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> > > And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> > > drivelling on The Dæmons.
> > >
> > > =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
> > >
> > > Episode One.
> > >
>
> > >
> > > of Devil's End. But we never find out what the curse is, or who
> > > was cursed by whom, or anything else about it.
> >
> > Maybe you are supposed to Google it!
>
> I don't think Barry Letts knew about Google when writing this story.
I am saddened to know that he didn't have precognition, or Martha's time phone.
Tim Bruening
Aug 3, 2017, 4:36:51 AM8/3/17
to
The Last Doctor
Aug 3, 2017, 5:19:07 AM8/3/17
to
"nick". Even in America.
Tim Bruening
Aug 3, 2017, 9:25:46 AM8/3/17
to
And why did the Parliament nix or nick or whatever the early attempt at a BBC3?
The Doctor
Aug 3, 2017, 10:00:49 AM8/3/17
to
In article <d40c8ccf-ee1d-4920...@googlegroups.com>,
He was elected to do so.
Talk Sense to a fool and he calls you foolish - Euripides
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Talk Sense to a fool and he calls you foolish - Euripides
The Last Doctor
Aug 3, 2017, 12:11:22 PM8/3/17
to
been far too expensive and would have had no programming - BBC1 and BBC2
closed down during the day on weekdays and both closed down before midnight
every night. Also, analogue bandwidth was crowded and prone to interference
- the fact that ITV was regional meant that it occupied a lot of the
available channels. Channel 4 couldn't squeeze in properly until VHF was
discontinued and all broadcast TV was on UHF - and Channel 5, when it
arrived, often had to occupy channel 36 (previously reserved for video
machines). BBC3 was a brainchild of the digital age and wasn't planned in
until the 1990s and didn't launch until 2001. The limitation was on
channels, imposed by physics, not by governments.
The Doctor
Aug 3, 2017, 4:50:21 PM8/3/17
to
The Last Doctor
Aug 3, 2017, 5:36:11 PM8/3/17
to
your job to prove.
Daniel60
Aug 5, 2017, 6:31:43 AM8/5/17
to
On 4/08/2017 7:36 AM, The Last Doctor wrote:
> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <euh097...@mid.individual.net>,
>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:19:07 AM UTC-7, The Last Doctor wrote:
<Snip>
> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <euh097...@mid.individual.net>,
>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:19:07 AM UTC-7, The Last Doctor wrote:
>>>>> The verb in question, as far as I know, is "to nix", ie to set to zero, not
>>>>> "nick". Even in America.
>>>>
>>>> Then why did "The Doctor" use "nicked"?
>>>>
>>>> And why did the Parliament nix or nick or whatever the early attempt
>>> at a BBC3?
>>>
>>> As far as I know the BBC didn't try for a BBC3 in the 1970s. It would have
>>> been far too expensive and would have had no programming - BBC1 and BBC2
>>> closed down during the day on weekdays and both closed down before midnight
>>> every night. Also, analogue bandwidth was crowded and prone to interference
>>> - the fact that ITV was regional meant that it occupied a lot of the
>>> available channels. Channel 4 couldn't squeeze in properly until VHF was
>>> discontinued and all broadcast TV was on UHF - and Channel 5, when it
>>> arrived, often had to occupy channel 36 (previously reserved for video
>>> machines). BBC3 was a brainchild of the digital age and wasn't planned in
>>> until the 1990s and didn't launch until 2001. The limitation was on
>>> channels, imposed by physics, not by governments.
>>
>> Look up BBC3 propsal 1970s on a search engine.
>
> I have. Can't find one. Why don't you post a link or evidence? Your claim,
> your job to prove.
>
supporting any of his "theories"??
Daniel
Tim Bruening
Aug 7, 2017, 10:08:38 PM8/7/17
to
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> drivelling on The Dæmons.
>
>
> drivelling on The Dæmons.
>
>
> Jo Grant now seems to be a believer in "the occult... the
> supernatural and all that magic bit," despite not having shown any
> sign of interest in it at all in any previous stories. If I
> didn't know better, I'd say it was a sign of the writer not being
> familiar with her characterisation. Instead, it's more like a
> sign of the writer not caring about her characterisation.
Had Jo Grant ever expressed any distain for the occult? If so, then we would have reason to list her interest in the occult as a nit. If not, we can give her interest a pass.
> supernatural and all that magic bit," despite not having shown any
> sign of interest in it at all in any previous stories. If I
> didn't know better, I'd say it was a sign of the writer not being
> familiar with her characterisation. Instead, it's more like a
> sign of the writer not caring about her characterisation.
solar penguin
Sep 17, 2017, 11:13:40 AM9/17/17
to
On Saturday, 25 February 2017 20:09:31 UTC, solar penguin wrote:
> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> drivelling on The Dæmons.
>
> And moving quickly on, we come to my disorganised and disjointed
> drivelling on The Dæmons.
>
> =<>=<>=<>=<>=<>=
>
> Episode One.
>
> The episode gets off to a dramatic start, with a night that's dark
>
> Episode One.
>
> and stormy enough for Bulwer-Lytton himself. There's stock
> footage of a toad and a cat, and later an owl, to keep Tim happy,
I was wrong. Apparently the cat was specially filmed for The
Dæmons, not stock footage after all.
Anyway, re-watching part one to refresh my memory, a couple
of thoughts occurred to me...
First, the Doctor's vague memory about the name Devil's End,
growing slowly stronger as the episode progresses. This could
just be a normal, half-forgotten memory, of course. OTOH if
the Master only learned about the place from those Top Secret
stolen Timelord files in "Colony", then the Doctor probably
wouldn't know about it at all.
Could the Timelords (the Gallifreyan CIA?) be secretly helping
the Doctor, telepathically transmitting knowledge of Devil's End
and the Dæmons into the Doctor's subconscious? Probably
not, but it's a fun theory anyway!
And something else that's fun is a lovely bit of ironic
foreshadowing. Bert the Landlord jokes that the Devil can
have his best room. In the end, it's the Doctor that will end up
taking the room in part 2.
But apart from that, most of my previous points still stand,
especially the fact that we never learn what frightened the dog
owner, or what moved the sign post. (That's the problem with
horror stories: all too often they spend so much time trying too
hard for a scary atmosphere, they forget to tell a story that
makes sense!)
solar penguin
Sep 17, 2017, 11:15:46 AM9/17/17
to
I don't know why I'm doing this again, since Tim is the
only one who's interested, but here is the delayed
second part of my non-review of The Dæmons.
-==-==-==-==-==-
Those of you with long memories will remember I
enjoyed the "What is happening now?" cliffhanger. Even
the resolution of the cliffhanger still leaves viewers
wanting to find out what _has_ happened as much as
what's going to happen. (The writers can only get away
with that kind of mystery this early in a story, of course.)
Back at UNIT HQ, Yates says: "The Brigadier 'went on
somewhere' after dinner. No-one's quite sure where."
Well, apparently he went to Television Centre to get a
job as a BBC3 announcer, because the _very next_ thing
we hear is Nicholas Courtney's unmistakable voice
coming from the TV in the corner of the room! (If the
DW production team had to get someone from the cast
to double up as the announcer, couldn't they have
chosen one of the villagers instead?)
Could the announcer actually be the Whoniverse version
of the actor Nicholas Courtney? After all, in that
universe he wouldn't have the job playing the Brigadier
on Doctor Who, so he might have decided to become a
TV announcer instead. Or is this all just getting too silly
now?
Anyway, back at Devil's End, both the Doctor's hearts
are still beating. One of them hasn't shut down despite
his being frozen, "very nearly a solid block of ice." (It
might be interesting to make lists of all the times one of
his hearts does - and doesn't - stop beating, and see if
there's any pattern. But I'll leave that to anyone who's
more dedicated and methodical than me!)
When Jo worries whether the Doctor will survive, the
squire tells her, "Where there's life, there's hope." This
old saying will continue to be associated with the third
Doctor being on the verge of death again in "The
Monster of Peladon" and (most memorably) "Planet of
the Spiders." It's nice to see it getting an early
appearance here.
(BTW Cicero's "Dum Spiro Spero" could more accurately
be translated as, "While I've respiration, I've
expectation," or something like that. The fact that we
normally say, "Where there's life, there's hope," instead
is literally a triumph of hope over expectation!)
(Sorry.)
Anyway, come the morning and Yates and Benton take a
helicopter down to Devil's End. Why wait until morning?
(Maybe they needed to stay in HQ in case the Brigadier
returned or there was news on the TV, but they could've
left a Private behind to do that and contact them by
radio.)
And why do they put on civvies instead of their uniforms?
What is the point of that?
When we do finally see the Brigadier again, it's in a
bedroom. Presumably not his own bedroom at UNIT
barracks, since they've had so much trouble finding him,
but either a hotel bedroom or the bedroom of the
mysterious person he "went on somewhere with" after
his regimental reunion dinner.
But who is that? The script mentions "an elegant female
hand", although we don't see this on screen. And back
in the seventies (or was it the eighties) there weren't
many women in the army, so the only women present at
the dinner would probably be wives accompanying their
military husbands. Unless the Brigadier literally stole
another man's wife away from right in front of him, we
can safely assume the lover remaining coyly off camera
isn't female after all, but is actually a man, one of his
fellow officers. Yes, you read it here first, the Brigadier
is bisexual. (Why else do you think Yates will ask him
for a dance at the end of the story?)
Anyway, let's have some less controversial - but just as
weird and imaginative - speculation instead.
Magister is the Latin for Master, but the Etruscan for
Magister was Macstarna, and that was the nickname of
the ancient Roman king Servius Tullius. He usurped the
throne in a coup and was said to have psychic or
supernatural powers. He couldn't be... could he...? (And
even if he wasn't, perhaps the Master could use the
name as an alias in future. It's a shame that Michelle
Gomez won't be playing Missy any more, as I would love
to hear her saying, "I'm Miss Macstarna," in her Scottish
accent!)
But that's enough of that, back to the plot.
It's a bit unfair of the Doctor to ask, "Jo, did you fail Latin
as well as science?" when he doesn't even know if she
even took Latin in the first place!
And the cliffhanger is a bit weak: a little man in a silly
costume doing jazz hands. Yes, we'll later learn that Bok
is more powerful than he looks, and that he's not the
"Devil" people keep talking about, but we don't know that
yet.
only one who's interested, but here is the delayed
second part of my non-review of The Dæmons.
-==-==-==-==-==-
Those of you with long memories will remember I
enjoyed the "What is happening now?" cliffhanger. Even
the resolution of the cliffhanger still leaves viewers
wanting to find out what _has_ happened as much as
what's going to happen. (The writers can only get away
with that kind of mystery this early in a story, of course.)
Back at UNIT HQ, Yates says: "The Brigadier 'went on
somewhere' after dinner. No-one's quite sure where."
Well, apparently he went to Television Centre to get a
job as a BBC3 announcer, because the _very next_ thing
we hear is Nicholas Courtney's unmistakable voice
coming from the TV in the corner of the room! (If the
DW production team had to get someone from the cast
to double up as the announcer, couldn't they have
chosen one of the villagers instead?)
Could the announcer actually be the Whoniverse version
of the actor Nicholas Courtney? After all, in that
universe he wouldn't have the job playing the Brigadier
on Doctor Who, so he might have decided to become a
TV announcer instead. Or is this all just getting too silly
now?
Anyway, back at Devil's End, both the Doctor's hearts
are still beating. One of them hasn't shut down despite
his being frozen, "very nearly a solid block of ice." (It
might be interesting to make lists of all the times one of
his hearts does - and doesn't - stop beating, and see if
there's any pattern. But I'll leave that to anyone who's
more dedicated and methodical than me!)
When Jo worries whether the Doctor will survive, the
squire tells her, "Where there's life, there's hope." This
old saying will continue to be associated with the third
Doctor being on the verge of death again in "The
Monster of Peladon" and (most memorably) "Planet of
the Spiders." It's nice to see it getting an early
appearance here.
(BTW Cicero's "Dum Spiro Spero" could more accurately
be translated as, "While I've respiration, I've
expectation," or something like that. The fact that we
normally say, "Where there's life, there's hope," instead
is literally a triumph of hope over expectation!)
(Sorry.)
Anyway, come the morning and Yates and Benton take a
helicopter down to Devil's End. Why wait until morning?
(Maybe they needed to stay in HQ in case the Brigadier
returned or there was news on the TV, but they could've
left a Private behind to do that and contact them by
radio.)
And why do they put on civvies instead of their uniforms?
What is the point of that?
When we do finally see the Brigadier again, it's in a
bedroom. Presumably not his own bedroom at UNIT
barracks, since they've had so much trouble finding him,
but either a hotel bedroom or the bedroom of the
mysterious person he "went on somewhere with" after
his regimental reunion dinner.
But who is that? The script mentions "an elegant female
hand", although we don't see this on screen. And back
in the seventies (or was it the eighties) there weren't
many women in the army, so the only women present at
the dinner would probably be wives accompanying their
military husbands. Unless the Brigadier literally stole
another man's wife away from right in front of him, we
can safely assume the lover remaining coyly off camera
isn't female after all, but is actually a man, one of his
fellow officers. Yes, you read it here first, the Brigadier
is bisexual. (Why else do you think Yates will ask him
for a dance at the end of the story?)
Anyway, let's have some less controversial - but just as
weird and imaginative - speculation instead.
Magister is the Latin for Master, but the Etruscan for
Magister was Macstarna, and that was the nickname of
the ancient Roman king Servius Tullius. He usurped the
throne in a coup and was said to have psychic or
supernatural powers. He couldn't be... could he...? (And
even if he wasn't, perhaps the Master could use the
name as an alias in future. It's a shame that Michelle
Gomez won't be playing Missy any more, as I would love
to hear her saying, "I'm Miss Macstarna," in her Scottish
accent!)
But that's enough of that, back to the plot.
It's a bit unfair of the Doctor to ask, "Jo, did you fail Latin
as well as science?" when he doesn't even know if she
even took Latin in the first place!
And the cliffhanger is a bit weak: a little man in a silly
costume doing jazz hands. Yes, we'll later learn that Bok
is more powerful than he looks, and that he's not the
"Devil" people keep talking about, but we don't know that
yet.
solar penguin
Sep 17, 2017, 11:18:43 AM9/17/17
to
means foreshadowing stuff in advance, not hiding behind a "Well, I
didn't directly contradict it before."
Mr.Smartypants Royal Order Of The DoW #4
Sep 17, 2017, 11:20:44 AM9/17/17
to
solar penguin
Sep 17, 2017, 12:20:48 PM9/17/17
to
On Thursday, 23 March 2017 17:32:29 UTC, Tim Bruening typed:
They weren't. They were used to burn already-located witches
(in the popular imagination anyway. In practice, English
witches were usually hung, given the mercy of a quick death.)
(in the popular imagination anyway. In practice, English
witches were usually hung, given the mercy of a quick death.)
The Doctor
Sep 17, 2017, 2:05:03 PM9/17/17
to
Tim Bruening
Sep 17, 2017, 3:06:41 PM9/17/17
to
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 11:05:03 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <67bf4c8b-b68d-4a6b...@googlegroups.com>,
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, 8 August 2017 03:08:38 UTC+1, Tim Bruening wrote:
> >
> >> On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Jo Grant now seems to be a believer in "the occult... the
> >> > supernatural and all that magic bit," despite not having shown any
> >> > sign of interest in it at all in any previous stories. If I
> >> > didn't know better, I'd say it was a sign of the writer not being
> >> > familiar with her characterisation. Instead, it's more like a
> >> > sign of the writer not caring about her characterisation.
> >>
> >> Had Jo Grant ever expressed any distain for the occult? If so, then
> >> we would have reason to list her interest in the occult as a nit. If
> >> not, we can give her interest a pass.
> >
> >It may not be "a nit", but it's still a valid criticism. Good writing
> >means foreshadowing stuff in advance, not hiding behind a "Well, I
> >didn't directly contradict it before."
>
> You are back SP!
Thank you, thank you, SP!
> In article <67bf4c8b-b68d-4a6b...@googlegroups.com>,
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, 8 August 2017 03:08:38 UTC+1, Tim Bruening wrote:
> >
> >> On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-8, solar penguin wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Jo Grant now seems to be a believer in "the occult... the
> >> > supernatural and all that magic bit," despite not having shown any
> >> > sign of interest in it at all in any previous stories. If I
> >> > didn't know better, I'd say it was a sign of the writer not being
> >> > familiar with her characterisation. Instead, it's more like a
> >> > sign of the writer not caring about her characterisation.
> >>
> >> Had Jo Grant ever expressed any distain for the occult? If so, then
> >> we would have reason to list her interest in the occult as a nit. If
> >> not, we can give her interest a pass.
> >
> >It may not be "a nit", but it's still a valid criticism. Good writing
> >means foreshadowing stuff in advance, not hiding behind a "Well, I
> >didn't directly contradict it before."
>
> You are back SP!
I see that Yads likes SP's reviews also!
Tim Bruening
Sep 17, 2017, 3:14:18 PM9/17/17
to
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:15:46 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
>
> When we do finally see the Brigadier again, it's in a
> bedroom. Presumably not his own bedroom at UNIT
> barracks, since they've had so much trouble finding him,
> but either a hotel bedroom or the bedroom of the
> mysterious person he "went on somewhere with" after
> his regimental reunion dinner.
>
> But who is that? The script mentions "an elegant female
> hand", although we don't see this on screen. And back
> in the seventies (or was it the eighties) there weren't
> many women in the army, so the only women present at
> the dinner would probably be wives accompanying their
> military husbands.
Was the Brigadier married at that time? If not, did he have a girlfriend? If neither, why can't he engage a hooker?
>
> When we do finally see the Brigadier again, it's in a
> bedroom. Presumably not his own bedroom at UNIT
> barracks, since they've had so much trouble finding him,
> but either a hotel bedroom or the bedroom of the
> mysterious person he "went on somewhere with" after
> his regimental reunion dinner.
>
> But who is that? The script mentions "an elegant female
> hand", although we don't see this on screen. And back
> in the seventies (or was it the eighties) there weren't
> many women in the army, so the only women present at
> the dinner would probably be wives accompanying their
> military husbands.
Unless the Brigadier literally stole
> another man's wife away from right in front of him, we
> can safely assume the lover remaining coyly off camera
> isn't female after all, but is actually a man, one of his
> fellow officers. Yes, you read it here first, the Brigadier
> is bisexual. (Why else do you think Yates will ask him
> for a dance at the end of the story?)
solar penguin
Sep 17, 2017, 5:06:10 PM9/17/17
to
occurred to me while watching the episode, nothing more. This last one
had me rambling about Cicero and Michelle Gomez, neither of whom were
even in the episode!
The closest I've ever come to writing proper reviews were my posts on
Trust Me, where I tried to stay focussed on the actual content of the
actual episodes because I knew most people here wouldn't already be
familiar with them. There's a big difference.
solar penguin
Sep 17, 2017, 5:25:23 PM9/17/17
to
On Sunday, 17 September 2017 20:14:18 UTC+1, Tim Bruening wrote:
> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:15:46 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
>
> >
> > When we do finally see the Brigadier again, it's in a
> > bedroom. Presumably not his own bedroom at UNIT
> > barracks, since they've had so much trouble finding him,
> > but either a hotel bedroom or the bedroom of the
> > mysterious person he "went on somewhere with" after
> > his regimental reunion dinner.
> >
> > But who is that? The script mentions "an elegant female
> > hand", although we don't see this on screen. And back
> > in the seventies (or was it the eighties) there weren't
> > many women in the army, so the only women present at
> > the dinner would probably be wives accompanying their
> > military husbands.
>
> Was the Brigadier married at that time?
AIUI fan theories usually say this around the time he was
> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:15:46 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
>
> >
> > When we do finally see the Brigadier again, it's in a
> > bedroom. Presumably not his own bedroom at UNIT
> > barracks, since they've had so much trouble finding him,
> > but either a hotel bedroom or the bedroom of the
> > mysterious person he "went on somewhere with" after
> > his regimental reunion dinner.
> >
> > But who is that? The script mentions "an elegant female
> > hand", although we don't see this on screen. And back
> > in the seventies (or was it the eighties) there weren't
> > many women in the army, so the only women present at
> > the dinner would probably be wives accompanying their
> > military husbands.
>
> Was the Brigadier married at that time?
separating from his first wife, Fiona (Kate's mother) and
a long way before he married his second, Doris.
> If not, did he
> have a girlfriend? If neither, why can't he engage a
> hooker?
"went on somewhere" afterwards implies that he left _with_
someone from the reunion, otherwise he could've been simply
heading back to UNIT for all they knew.
I suppose the Brigadier and his friend could've gone off to
the red light district looking for hookers together and taken
them back to the friend's house afterwards. But this is even
more speculative than my bisexual Brigadier theory, since it
requires three unknown, unseen characters (the friend plus two
hookers, one for each of them.)
>
> Unless the Brigadier literally stole
> > another man's wife away from right in front of him, we
> > can safely assume the lover remaining coyly off camera
> > isn't female after all, but is actually a man, one of his
> > fellow officers. Yes, you read it here first, the Brigadier
> > is bisexual. (Why else do you think Yates will ask him
> > for a dance at the end of the story?)
>
> The genesis of the BBC's pro-gayness?
>
>
with an elegant hand. Luckily they didn't follow the script!
Pudentame
Sep 17, 2017, 6:43:38 PM9/17/17
to
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:15:44 -0700 (PDT), solar penguin
<solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
>I don't know why I'm doing this again, since Tim is the
>only one who's interested, but here is the delayed
>second part of my non-review of The Dæmons.
>
> -==-==-==-==-==-
Well, at least it's a post actually about Doctor Who and not some lame
<solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
>I don't know why I'm doing this again, since Tim is the
>only one who's interested, but here is the delayed
>second part of my non-review of The Dæmons.
>
> -==-==-==-==-==-
counting game.
The Doctor
Sep 17, 2017, 6:50:33 PM9/17/17
to
The Doctor
Sep 17, 2017, 7:00:33 PM9/17/17
to
The Doctor
Sep 17, 2017, 7:09:11 PM9/17/17
to
Tim Bruening
Sep 17, 2017, 10:03:01 PM9/17/17
to
solar penguin
Sep 18, 2017, 3:37:13 AM9/18/17
to
Brigadier may have gone on somewhere with.
The Last Doctor
Sep 18, 2017, 5:14:15 AM9/18/17
to
moment lost in time.
Daniel60
Sep 18, 2017, 6:22:37 AM9/18/17
to
Daniel
Tim Bruening
Sep 18, 2017, 7:16:23 AM9/18/17
to
Tim Bruening
Sep 18, 2017, 7:20:07 AM9/18/17
to
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:15:46 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
>
>
> Anyway, back at Devil's End, both the Doctor's hearts
> are still beating. One of them hasn't shut down despite
> his being frozen, "very nearly a solid block of ice." (It
> might be interesting to make lists of all the times one of
> his hearts does - and doesn't - stop beating, and see if
> there's any pattern. But I'll leave that to anyone who's
> more dedicated and methodical than me!)
The Power of Three: A Doctor heart stops.
> are still beating. One of them hasn't shut down despite
> his being frozen, "very nearly a solid block of ice." (It
> might be interesting to make lists of all the times one of
> his hearts does - and doesn't - stop beating, and see if
> there's any pattern. But I'll leave that to anyone who's
> more dedicated and methodical than me!)
The Doctor
Sep 18, 2017, 10:27:54 AM9/18/17
to
The Doctor
Sep 18, 2017, 10:53:46 AM9/18/17
to
The Doctor
Sep 18, 2017, 10:54:14 AM9/18/17
to
Tim Bruening
Sep 18, 2017, 1:29:58 PM9/18/17
to
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 7:54:14 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <85bc9b18-2e31-48ef...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:15:46 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Anyway, back at Devil's End, both the Doctor's hearts
> >> are still beating. One of them hasn't shut down despite
> >> his being frozen, "very nearly a solid block of ice." (It
> >> might be interesting to make lists of all the times one of
> >> his hearts does - and doesn't - stop beating, and see if
> >> there's any pattern. But I'll leave that to anyone who's
> >> more dedicated and methodical than me!)
> >
> >The Power of Three: A Doctor heart stops.
>
> Try One of the Doctor's hearts stops
Same thing.
> In article <85bc9b18-2e31-48ef...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:15:46 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Anyway, back at Devil's End, both the Doctor's hearts
> >> are still beating. One of them hasn't shut down despite
> >> his being frozen, "very nearly a solid block of ice." (It
> >> might be interesting to make lists of all the times one of
> >> his hearts does - and doesn't - stop beating, and see if
> >> there's any pattern. But I'll leave that to anyone who's
> >> more dedicated and methodical than me!)
> >
> >The Power of Three: A Doctor heart stops.
>
> Try One of the Doctor's hearts stops
solar penguin
Sep 18, 2017, 5:24:15 PM9/18/17
to
And now part 3
-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
The Venusian Lullaby makes its appearance as the Doctor
scares off Bok by yelling its first line at him. It's not
sung to the tune of "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen", and
there's no "Haroon Haroon Haroon" second line, but it's nice
to hear it anyway.
This does raise the question of how sentient Bok is, and how
much free will he has. He halts, seemingly with the fear
that the lullaby is some kind of genuine ritual. The Doctor
knows that it isn't, so Bok can't be picking up any
telepathic impression off him. Even the Master (who's
definitely in telepathic contact with Bok) dismisses the
incantation as "just mumbo jumbo", and seems surprised that
Bok is afraid of it.
If Dæmon science can not only bring objects to life but give
them fully-functioning free will, then why do they need to
use Earth for their experiments? Just set up communities of
tiny living figurines on Dæmos and experiment with them.
Alternatively, Bok could be a member of a natural living
species that just happen to resemble statues, possibly
related to the Weeping Angels? Unlike the Angels, Bok's
race must be able to consciously control whether or not to
become immobile stone. If the Dæmons genetically altered
some Weeping Angels to create a slave race, they would've
needed to give them that control and may have also added the
demonic appearance as well. (Earth legends of demons being
fallen angels could be connected to this in some way.)
But enough about Bok. I've probably speculated more here
about the chap with wings than anyone has done since 1971.
"Decadence! That's what I'm talking about! That's what I
see on every side. All this talk of democracy, freedom
liberty! What this country need is strength, power and
decision."
How much does the Master actually believe that? Is it part
of his motivation for wanting to take over the world and/or
universe? Or is he just acting the part of a Yads/Aggy-
style religious bigot as part of his disguise?
And while the Doctor isn't quite as bigoted as the Master,
he's being a proper cunt here, and it's not for real. First
he's just too abrupt when he dismisses Miss Hawthorn's
opinion of the supernatural. He could've phrased things a
bit more tactfully given that she just lent him "the pick of
the finest collection of occult material in the country."
(And he could've gone round to her house for them, instead
of making her carry them to him!)
Then his usual good-natured teasing of Jo seems nastier
somehow. I've already mentioned his taunting her about her
poor qualifications last time, and he just continues here.
There's the patronising "Well done, Jo. You're being logical
at last." ("Jo thinks this is a doubtful compliment," says
the direction in the script.) Then later he'll scold her
for agreeing with his criticism of the Brigadier.
With all this coming from the Doctor, it's something of a
relief when after he pompously says, "Right, if there are no
more interruptions..." they're interrupted by a call on
Mike's walkie-talkie.
The script does acknowledge that changing size can affect
mass. But it doesn't do it consistently. When Azal changes
size, his mass changes. Depending on whether he's shrinking
or growing, he either converts excess mass into heat or
extracts ambient heat to form new mass, all following
E=mc^2. OTOH his shrunken spaceship retains all its old
mass and is just very very dense and heavy!
The first-person viewpoint camera angles when Mike Yates
fights the henchman work at first, but there are too many of
them, and they soon start to look unconvincing.
And talking of the henchman, he flies the helicopter "like
an expert" according to Mike; or "like a man possessed" as
the Doctor puts it. How literal is that? Has Azal really
possessed him and given him the skill to fly a helicopter?
How similar are Dæmos helicopters to Earth ones anyway?
But even Azal can't prevent the henchman meeting the fate
that must always befall helicopter thieves in stories that
Barry Letts was involved with. In "Enenmy of the World"
Letts added an unscripted scene where villains steal a
helicopter which then explodes. Now in "The Dæmons", which
Letts co-wrote, a villain steals a helicopter which then
explodes. If only "Planet of the Spiders" had used a
helicopter instead of an autogyro, that chase scene would've
been a lot shorter!
The Master is the one in danger at the cliffhanger for a
change. The idea is that if the Dæmon is an even bigger bad
than the Master, then it must be a powerful indeed. This is
slightly undermined by the way almost every one of the
Master's allies has betrayed and double crossed him this
season. This is just one more doing the same.
-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
The Venusian Lullaby makes its appearance as the Doctor
scares off Bok by yelling its first line at him. It's not
sung to the tune of "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen", and
there's no "Haroon Haroon Haroon" second line, but it's nice
to hear it anyway.
This does raise the question of how sentient Bok is, and how
much free will he has. He halts, seemingly with the fear
that the lullaby is some kind of genuine ritual. The Doctor
knows that it isn't, so Bok can't be picking up any
telepathic impression off him. Even the Master (who's
definitely in telepathic contact with Bok) dismisses the
incantation as "just mumbo jumbo", and seems surprised that
Bok is afraid of it.
If Dæmon science can not only bring objects to life but give
them fully-functioning free will, then why do they need to
use Earth for their experiments? Just set up communities of
tiny living figurines on Dæmos and experiment with them.
Alternatively, Bok could be a member of a natural living
species that just happen to resemble statues, possibly
related to the Weeping Angels? Unlike the Angels, Bok's
race must be able to consciously control whether or not to
become immobile stone. If the Dæmons genetically altered
some Weeping Angels to create a slave race, they would've
needed to give them that control and may have also added the
demonic appearance as well. (Earth legends of demons being
fallen angels could be connected to this in some way.)
But enough about Bok. I've probably speculated more here
about the chap with wings than anyone has done since 1971.
"Decadence! That's what I'm talking about! That's what I
see on every side. All this talk of democracy, freedom
liberty! What this country need is strength, power and
decision."
How much does the Master actually believe that? Is it part
of his motivation for wanting to take over the world and/or
universe? Or is he just acting the part of a Yads/Aggy-
style religious bigot as part of his disguise?
And while the Doctor isn't quite as bigoted as the Master,
he's being a proper cunt here, and it's not for real. First
he's just too abrupt when he dismisses Miss Hawthorn's
opinion of the supernatural. He could've phrased things a
bit more tactfully given that she just lent him "the pick of
the finest collection of occult material in the country."
(And he could've gone round to her house for them, instead
of making her carry them to him!)
Then his usual good-natured teasing of Jo seems nastier
somehow. I've already mentioned his taunting her about her
poor qualifications last time, and he just continues here.
There's the patronising "Well done, Jo. You're being logical
at last." ("Jo thinks this is a doubtful compliment," says
the direction in the script.) Then later he'll scold her
for agreeing with his criticism of the Brigadier.
With all this coming from the Doctor, it's something of a
relief when after he pompously says, "Right, if there are no
more interruptions..." they're interrupted by a call on
Mike's walkie-talkie.
The script does acknowledge that changing size can affect
mass. But it doesn't do it consistently. When Azal changes
size, his mass changes. Depending on whether he's shrinking
or growing, he either converts excess mass into heat or
extracts ambient heat to form new mass, all following
E=mc^2. OTOH his shrunken spaceship retains all its old
mass and is just very very dense and heavy!
The first-person viewpoint camera angles when Mike Yates
fights the henchman work at first, but there are too many of
them, and they soon start to look unconvincing.
And talking of the henchman, he flies the helicopter "like
an expert" according to Mike; or "like a man possessed" as
the Doctor puts it. How literal is that? Has Azal really
possessed him and given him the skill to fly a helicopter?
How similar are Dæmos helicopters to Earth ones anyway?
But even Azal can't prevent the henchman meeting the fate
that must always befall helicopter thieves in stories that
Barry Letts was involved with. In "Enenmy of the World"
Letts added an unscripted scene where villains steal a
helicopter which then explodes. Now in "The Dæmons", which
Letts co-wrote, a villain steals a helicopter which then
explodes. If only "Planet of the Spiders" had used a
helicopter instead of an autogyro, that chase scene would've
been a lot shorter!
The Master is the one in danger at the cliffhanger for a
change. The idea is that if the Dæmon is an even bigger bad
than the Master, then it must be a powerful indeed. This is
slightly undermined by the way almost every one of the
Master's allies has betrayed and double crossed him this
season. This is just one more doing the same.
Tim Bruening
Sep 19, 2017, 12:04:24 AM9/19/17
to
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 7:54:14 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <85bc9b18-2e31-48ef...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:15:46 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Anyway, back at Devil's End, both the Doctor's hearts
> >> are still beating. One of them hasn't shut down despite
> >> his being frozen, "very nearly a solid block of ice." (It
> >> might be interesting to make lists of all the times one of
> >> his hearts does - and doesn't - stop beating, and see if
> >> there's any pattern. But I'll leave that to anyone who's
> >> more dedicated and methodical than me!)
> >
> >The Power of Three: A Doctor heart stops.
>
> Try One of the Doctor's hearts stops
Same thing.
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:15:46 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Anyway, back at Devil's End, both the Doctor's hearts
> >> are still beating. One of them hasn't shut down despite
> >> his being frozen, "very nearly a solid block of ice." (It
> >> might be interesting to make lists of all the times one of
> >> his hearts does - and doesn't - stop beating, and see if
> >> there's any pattern. But I'll leave that to anyone who's
> >> more dedicated and methodical than me!)
> >
> >The Power of Three: A Doctor heart stops.
>
> Try One of the Doctor's hearts stops
Daniel60
Sep 19, 2017, 7:40:43 AM9/19/17
to
don't count both in your monthly stats!!
Daniel
The Doctor
Sep 19, 2017, 8:45:05 AM9/19/17
to
In article <b2fbcee7-3fea-4a77...@googlegroups.com>,
Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 7:54:14 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <85bc9b18-2e31-48ef...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:15:46 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, back at Devil's End, both the Doctor's hearts
>> >> are still beating. One of them hasn't shut down despite
>> >> his being frozen, "very nearly a solid block of ice." (It
>> >> might be interesting to make lists of all the times one of
>> >> his hearts does - and doesn't - stop beating, and see if
>> >> there's any pattern. But I'll leave that to anyone who's
>> >> more dedicated and methodical than me!)
>> >
>> >The Power of Three: A Doctor heart stops.
>>
>> Try One of the Doctor's hearts stops
>
>Same thing.
Doctor has 2 hearts
>On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 7:54:14 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <85bc9b18-2e31-48ef...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:15:46 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, back at Devil's End, both the Doctor's hearts
>> >> are still beating. One of them hasn't shut down despite
>> >> his being frozen, "very nearly a solid block of ice." (It
>> >> might be interesting to make lists of all the times one of
>> >> his hearts does - and doesn't - stop beating, and see if
>> >> there's any pattern. But I'll leave that to anyone who's
>> >> more dedicated and methodical than me!)
>> >
>> >The Power of Three: A Doctor heart stops.
>>
>> Try One of the Doctor's hearts stops
>
>Same thing.
Tim Bruening
Sep 19, 2017, 2:30:23 PM9/19/17
to
On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 5:45:05 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <b2fbcee7-3fea-4a77...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 7:54:14 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> >> In article <85bc9b18-2e31-48ef...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:15:46 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Anyway, back at Devil's End, both the Doctor's hearts
> >> >> are still beating. One of them hasn't shut down despite
> >> >> his being frozen, "very nearly a solid block of ice." (It
> >> >> might be interesting to make lists of all the times one of
> >> >> his hearts does - and doesn't - stop beating, and see if
> >> >> there's any pattern. But I'll leave that to anyone who's
> >> >> more dedicated and methodical than me!)
> >> >
> >> >The Power of Three: A Doctor heart stops.
> >>
> >> Try One of the Doctor's hearts stops
> >
> >Same thing.
>
> Doctor has 2 hearts
A (One of the) Doctor heart stops.
> In article <b2fbcee7-3fea-4a77...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 7:54:14 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> >> In article <85bc9b18-2e31-48ef...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:15:46 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Anyway, back at Devil's End, both the Doctor's hearts
> >> >> are still beating. One of them hasn't shut down despite
> >> >> his being frozen, "very nearly a solid block of ice." (It
> >> >> might be interesting to make lists of all the times one of
> >> >> his hearts does - and doesn't - stop beating, and see if
> >> >> there's any pattern. But I'll leave that to anyone who's
> >> >> more dedicated and methodical than me!)
> >> >
> >> >The Power of Three: A Doctor heart stops.
> >>
> >> Try One of the Doctor's hearts stops
> >
> >Same thing.
>
> Doctor has 2 hearts
Tim Bruening
Sep 20, 2017, 12:56:36 PM9/20/17
to
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 2:24:15 PM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> And now part 3
>
> -<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
>
> The Venusian Lullaby makes its appearance as the Doctor
> scares off Bok by yelling its first line at him. It's not
> sung to the tune of "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen", and
> there's no "Haroon Haroon Haroon" second line, but it's nice
> to hear it anyway.
>
> This does raise the question of how sentient Bok is, and how
> much free will he has. He halts, seemingly with the fear
> that the lullaby is some kind of genuine ritual. The Doctor
> knows that it isn't, so Bok can't be picking up any
> telepathic impression off him. Even the Master (who's
> definitely in telepathic contact with Bok) dismisses the
> incantation as "just mumbo jumbo", and seems surprised that
> Bok is afraid of it.
>
> If Dæmon science can not only bring objects to life but give
> them fully-functioning free will, then why do they need to
> use Earth for their experiments? Just set up communities of
> tiny living figurines on Dæmos and experiment with them.
To learn about human psychology, wouldn't the Daemons still need real humans?
> And now part 3
>
> -<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
>
> The Venusian Lullaby makes its appearance as the Doctor
> scares off Bok by yelling its first line at him. It's not
> sung to the tune of "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen", and
> there's no "Haroon Haroon Haroon" second line, but it's nice
> to hear it anyway.
>
> This does raise the question of how sentient Bok is, and how
> much free will he has. He halts, seemingly with the fear
> that the lullaby is some kind of genuine ritual. The Doctor
> knows that it isn't, so Bok can't be picking up any
> telepathic impression off him. Even the Master (who's
> definitely in telepathic contact with Bok) dismisses the
> incantation as "just mumbo jumbo", and seems surprised that
> Bok is afraid of it.
>
> If Dæmon science can not only bring objects to life but give
> them fully-functioning free will, then why do they need to
> use Earth for their experiments? Just set up communities of
> tiny living figurines on Dæmos and experiment with them.
solar penguin
Sep 21, 2017, 8:57:29 AM9/21/17
to
Episode four ...
I'm not sure why Jo is so obsessed with getting to the cavern.
She was injured near the heat barrier, miles from there and
that's where she left the Doctor who's still there, so she can't be
trying to find him. Normally when a protagonist is obsessively
almost-sleepwalking to the villain's lair, it's because of
hypnotism or mind control, but that doesn't seem to be the case
here. So what does she expect to do there? (She later says she
just wanted to find out what was happening there, but that
doesn't explain such obsessive determination.)
"There is another here of your race," Azal tells the Master.
Unless "here" just means Devil's End, Azal must somehow
know that the Timelord teaching at Bristol and the Timelord in
the vault there are the same as the ones at the village.
(And that makes me wonder, is there any fanfiction about
Capaldi's Doctor encountering Delgardo's Master? I can just
imagine the Doctor being all like "How did you get out of there?"
before noticing that this is a different incarnation! The maybe
the Master could steal Capaldi's TARDIS and travel to Switzerland
two years earlier to become Professor Keller.)
There are too many close-ups of the wrinkled stockings round
Azal's ankles. Thay make it a bit hard to suspend disbelief.
"My race destroys its failures! Remember Atlantis!" There's a
great theory and I can't remember who first thought it up, but it
goes that Azal is just reminding the Master of an earlier time
when he saw a powerful being destroy in an act of vengeance.
(The Master doesn't know what he's talking about, of course,
because that hasn't yet happened in his own personal timeline.)
Has anyone tried building the device shown in the Doctor's
circuit diagram? Or at least tried analysing it to see how (or
whether) it works?
Back at the inn, Miss Hawthorn helps herself and Sergeant
Benton to drinks from behind the bar. Is she planning to pay
when Bert the Landlord returns?
Bert, meanwhile, has been sent to kill the Doctor. When he
returns (to the Master, not the inn) he only has to say "Sorry,"
for the Master to conclude, "The Doctor got away." "How could
you know that?" gasps a confused Bert. Uh, what else would
you be apologising for?
"Hey look, there's the Doctor!" says Benton, a good two or three
seconds before the Doctor comes into view round the corner.
Poor editing between studio and location filming.
"He's a witch! Burn him!" "Burn him!" "Burn him!" I can't be
the only one who wants to add "Build a bridge out of him!"
Curse you Monty Python, for being so quotable!
There's a lot of padding in this episode. A lot. Even by the
usual "Classic Who penultimate episode" standards, it's still a
lot. Azal and the Master tell each other things they already
know. Osgood starts building the heat exchanger, but doesn't
get very far. Bert tries to shoot the Doctor and misses. The
Doctor gets captured by the morris dancers but tricks them into
letting him go.
The only thing to happen that actually moves the plot on from
the end of the previous episode is Mike and Jo going to the
cavern and being there the Master summon Azal again.
I'm not sure why Jo is so obsessed with getting to the cavern.
She was injured near the heat barrier, miles from there and
that's where she left the Doctor who's still there, so she can't be
trying to find him. Normally when a protagonist is obsessively
almost-sleepwalking to the villain's lair, it's because of
hypnotism or mind control, but that doesn't seem to be the case
here. So what does she expect to do there? (She later says she
just wanted to find out what was happening there, but that
doesn't explain such obsessive determination.)
"There is another here of your race," Azal tells the Master.
Unless "here" just means Devil's End, Azal must somehow
know that the Timelord teaching at Bristol and the Timelord in
the vault there are the same as the ones at the village.
(And that makes me wonder, is there any fanfiction about
Capaldi's Doctor encountering Delgardo's Master? I can just
imagine the Doctor being all like "How did you get out of there?"
before noticing that this is a different incarnation! The maybe
the Master could steal Capaldi's TARDIS and travel to Switzerland
two years earlier to become Professor Keller.)
There are too many close-ups of the wrinkled stockings round
Azal's ankles. Thay make it a bit hard to suspend disbelief.
"My race destroys its failures! Remember Atlantis!" There's a
great theory and I can't remember who first thought it up, but it
goes that Azal is just reminding the Master of an earlier time
when he saw a powerful being destroy in an act of vengeance.
(The Master doesn't know what he's talking about, of course,
because that hasn't yet happened in his own personal timeline.)
Has anyone tried building the device shown in the Doctor's
circuit diagram? Or at least tried analysing it to see how (or
whether) it works?
Back at the inn, Miss Hawthorn helps herself and Sergeant
Benton to drinks from behind the bar. Is she planning to pay
when Bert the Landlord returns?
Bert, meanwhile, has been sent to kill the Doctor. When he
returns (to the Master, not the inn) he only has to say "Sorry,"
for the Master to conclude, "The Doctor got away." "How could
you know that?" gasps a confused Bert. Uh, what else would
you be apologising for?
"Hey look, there's the Doctor!" says Benton, a good two or three
seconds before the Doctor comes into view round the corner.
Poor editing between studio and location filming.
"He's a witch! Burn him!" "Burn him!" "Burn him!" I can't be
the only one who wants to add "Build a bridge out of him!"
Curse you Monty Python, for being so quotable!
There's a lot of padding in this episode. A lot. Even by the
usual "Classic Who penultimate episode" standards, it's still a
lot. Azal and the Master tell each other things they already
know. Osgood starts building the heat exchanger, but doesn't
get very far. Bert tries to shoot the Doctor and misses. The
Doctor gets captured by the morris dancers but tricks them into
letting him go.
The only thing to happen that actually moves the plot on from
the end of the previous episode is Mike and Jo going to the
cavern and being there the Master summon Azal again.
solar penguin
Sep 21, 2017, 9:00:18 AM9/21/17
to
learning about human psychology. They aren't. We don't know what
they are for, but it's definitely not that.
The Last Doctor
Sep 21, 2017, 11:38:32 AM9/21/17
to
solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Episode four ...
musings and am considering watching along ... but was going to restart at
the Beginning and so I think I'll need to have two watching sequences
ongoing.
On the point I didn't snip: it has to be a pretty local value of "here".
Quite apart from the 12th Doctor and Missy (who might not be there in this
timeline which is prior to the Time War, prior to the Big Bang reset, and
prior to the shenanigans with the Moment at the END of the Time War, to
name just three things that could totally jumble up the great big ball of
Timey Wimey stuff) there are at least two other Timelords I can think of
who definitely are in England at this time - K'Anpo (Cho-Je) in Tidmarsh
Manor, and Professor Chronotis / Salyevin at St Cedds College Cambridge.
> Episode four ...
>
>
> "There is another here of your race," Azal tells the Master.
> Unless "here" just means Devil's End, Azal must somehow
> know that the Timelord teaching at Bristol and the Timelord in
> the vault there are the same as the ones at the village.
Firstly, thank you for posting something about Doctor Who! I enjoy your
>
> "There is another here of your race," Azal tells the Master.
> Unless "here" just means Devil's End, Azal must somehow
> know that the Timelord teaching at Bristol and the Timelord in
> the vault there are the same as the ones at the village.
musings and am considering watching along ... but was going to restart at
the Beginning and so I think I'll need to have two watching sequences
ongoing.
On the point I didn't snip: it has to be a pretty local value of "here".
Quite apart from the 12th Doctor and Missy (who might not be there in this
timeline which is prior to the Time War, prior to the Big Bang reset, and
prior to the shenanigans with the Moment at the END of the Time War, to
name just three things that could totally jumble up the great big ball of
Timey Wimey stuff) there are at least two other Timelords I can think of
who definitely are in England at this time - K'Anpo (Cho-Je) in Tidmarsh
Manor, and Professor Chronotis / Salyevin at St Cedds College Cambridge.
Tim Bruening
Sep 21, 2017, 1:13:48 PM9/21/17
to
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 5:57:29 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> Episode four ...
> Episode four ...
>
>
>
> "There is another here of your race," Azal tells the Master.
> Unless "here" just means Devil's End, Azal must somehow
> know that the Timelord teaching at Bristol and the Timelord in
> the vault there are the same as the ones at the village.
And there may be other Doctor Who incarnations running about!
>
>
> "There is another here of your race," Azal tells the Master.
> Unless "here" just means Devil's End, Azal must somehow
> know that the Timelord teaching at Bristol and the Timelord in
> the vault there are the same as the ones at the village.
The Doctor
Sep 21, 2017, 5:04:12 PM9/21/17
to
In article <f2i4nl...@mid.individual.net>,
Missy sucked!
The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
The Doctor
Sep 21, 2017, 5:04:27 PM9/21/17
to
Daniel60
Sep 22, 2017, 9:33:56 AM9/22/17
to
On 22/09/2017 7:04 AM, The Doctor wrote:
<Snip>
> Missy sucked!
>
Sucked what, idiot??
Daniel
<Snip>
> Missy sucked!
>
Sucked what, idiot??
Daniel
The Doctor
Sep 22, 2017, 11:21:08 AM9/22/17
to
Tim Bruening
Sep 22, 2017, 12:37:15 PM9/22/17
to
solar penguin
Sep 22, 2017, 2:15:53 PM9/22/17
to
On Thursday, 21 September 2017 16:38:32 UTC+1, The Last Doctor wrote:
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Episode four ...
> >
> >
> > "There is another here of your race," Azal tells the Master.
> > Unless "here" just means Devil's End, Azal must somehow
> > know that the Timelord teaching at Bristol and the Timelord in
> > the vault there are the same as the ones at the village.
>
>
> Firstly, thank you for posting something about Doctor Who! I enjoy your
> musings and am considering watching along ... but was going to restart at
> the Beginning and so I think I'll need to have two watching sequences
> ongoing.
If you do watch from the beginning, will you post your reviews here?
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Episode four ...
> >
> >
> > "There is another here of your race," Azal tells the Master.
> > Unless "here" just means Devil's End, Azal must somehow
> > know that the Timelord teaching at Bristol and the Timelord in
> > the vault there are the same as the ones at the village.
>
>
> Firstly, thank you for posting something about Doctor Who! I enjoy your
> musings and am considering watching along ... but was going to restart at
> the Beginning and so I think I'll need to have two watching sequences
> ongoing.
You usually do great reviews, always interesting to read even if I
don't always agree with everything. (And they are proper reviews,
unlike my muddled musings here.)
>
> On the point I didn't snip: it has to be a pretty local value of "here".
> Quite apart from the 12th Doctor and Missy (who might not be there in this
> timeline which is prior to the Time War, prior to the Big Bang reset, and
> prior to the shenanigans with the Moment at the END of the Time War, to
> name just three things that could totally jumble up the great big ball of
> Timey Wimey stuff) there are at least two other Timelords I can think of
> who definitely are in England at this time - K'Anpo (Cho-Je) in Tidmarsh
> Manor, and Professor Chronotis / Salyevin at St Cedds College Cambridge.
Chronotis/Salyevin are capable of space-time travel (either by mental
projection or with a fully working TARDIS) so they might not be on the
planet just then.
(Yeah, I suppose the 12th Doctor might be off travelling too, but Bill
isn't encouraging his bad habits yet, so there's a chance Nardole might
have him under control.)
Also, we don't know when K'Anpo arrived in England. We don't even know
how many years pass between "The Dæmons" and "Planet of the Spiders".
But, yes, it does look like Azal was referring to inside his heat
barrier. Anyone outside it just doesn't matter.
solar penguin
Sep 22, 2017, 2:29:35 PM9/22/17
to
> conquer Earth!
They began experimenting with Earth back in the Stone Age. If they
wanted to conquer it, they could've done so back then, and not faced
any opposition stronger than primitive cavemen with flint axes!
No, the Dæmons seem to be interested in pure academic research: "If
we make these changes to a developing world, what sort of societies
will emerge as a result?"
Now their experiment is complete, they will either destroy Earth
because they have no more use for it, or give it to another suitably
advanced alien (such as a renegade Timelord) to use for a similar
experiment. But either way, they're still not interested in
conquering it.
solar penguin
Sep 22, 2017, 2:50:34 PM9/22/17
to
On Thursday, 21 September 2017 22:04:12 UTC+1, Yads yapped:
> In article <f2i4nl...@mid.individual.net>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> >
> >Firstly, thank you for posting something about Doctor Who! I enjoy your
> >musings and am considering watching along ... but was going to restart at
> >the Beginning and so I think I'll need to have two watching sequences
> >ongoing.
> >
> >On the point I didn't snip: it has to be a pretty local value of "here".
> >Quite apart from the 12th Doctor and Missy (who might not be there in this
> >timeline which is prior to the Time War, prior to the Big Bang reset, and
> >prior to the shenanigans with the Moment at the END of the Time War, to
> >name just three things that could totally jumble up the great big ball of
> >Timey Wimey stuff) there are at least two other Timelords I can think of
> >who definitely are in England at this time - K'Anpo (Cho-Je) in Tidmarsh
> >Manor, and Professor Chronotis / Salyevin at St Cedds College Cambridge.
> >
>
> Missy sucked!
> --
You still don't grasp the idea that replies should follow on from the
post they're replying to, do you?
> In article <f2i4nl...@mid.individual.net>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> >
> >Firstly, thank you for posting something about Doctor Who! I enjoy your
> >musings and am considering watching along ... but was going to restart at
> >the Beginning and so I think I'll need to have two watching sequences
> >ongoing.
> >
> >On the point I didn't snip: it has to be a pretty local value of "here".
> >Quite apart from the 12th Doctor and Missy (who might not be there in this
> >timeline which is prior to the Time War, prior to the Big Bang reset, and
> >prior to the shenanigans with the Moment at the END of the Time War, to
> >name just three things that could totally jumble up the great big ball of
> >Timey Wimey stuff) there are at least two other Timelords I can think of
> >who definitely are in England at this time - K'Anpo (Cho-Je) in Tidmarsh
> >Manor, and Professor Chronotis / Salyevin at St Cedds College Cambridge.
> >
>
> Missy sucked!
> --
post they're replying to, do you?
solar penguin
Sep 22, 2017, 2:52:10 PM9/22/17
to
Tim Bruening
Sep 22, 2017, 5:46:40 PM9/22/17
to
Did they find the Ultimate Question?
Tim Bruening
Sep 22, 2017, 5:47:52 PM9/22/17
to
The Doctor
Sep 22, 2017, 6:53:25 PM9/22/17
to
The Doctor
Sep 22, 2017, 7:13:24 PM9/22/17
to
Tim Bruening
Sep 22, 2017, 9:19:07 PM9/22/17
to
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 3:53:25 PM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <9cab84c1-34e4-4a8c...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 6:00:18 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, 20 September 2017 17:56:36 UTC+1, Tim Bruening wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 2:24:15 PM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > If Dæmon science can not only bring objects to life but give
> >> > > them fully-functioning free will, then why do they need to
> >> > > use Earth for their experiments? Just set up communities of
> >> > > tiny living figurines on Dæmos and experiment with them.
> >> >
> >> > To learn about human psychology, wouldn't the Daemons still
> >> > need real humans?
> >>
> >> You're assuming that the Dæmons' experiments are for the purpose of
> >> learning about human psychology. They aren't. We don't know what
> >> they are for, but it's definitely not that.
> >
> >I thought that they might want to learn human weaknesses in order o
> >conquer Earth!
>
> Maybe they flopped
Are you accusing them of throwing the game?
> In article <9cab84c1-34e4-4a8c...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 6:00:18 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, 20 September 2017 17:56:36 UTC+1, Tim Bruening wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 2:24:15 PM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > If Dæmon science can not only bring objects to life but give
> >> > > them fully-functioning free will, then why do they need to
> >> > > use Earth for their experiments? Just set up communities of
> >> > > tiny living figurines on Dæmos and experiment with them.
> >> >
> >> > To learn about human psychology, wouldn't the Daemons still
> >> > need real humans?
> >>
> >> You're assuming that the Dæmons' experiments are for the purpose of
> >> learning about human psychology. They aren't. We don't know what
> >> they are for, but it's definitely not that.
> >
> >I thought that they might want to learn human weaknesses in order o
> >conquer Earth!
>
> Maybe they flopped
Pudentame
Sep 22, 2017, 9:24:30 PM9/22/17
to
The Doctor
Sep 22, 2017, 11:45:44 PM9/22/17
to
Daniel60
Sep 23, 2017, 2:34:50 AM9/23/17
to
On 23/09/2017 4:29 AM, solar penguin wrote:
<Snip>
> Now their experiment is complete, they will either destroy Earth
> because they have no more use for it, or give it to another suitably
> advanced alien (such as a renegade Timelord) to use for a similar
> experiment. But either way, they're still not interested in
> conquering it.
>
No!! They cannot destroy the Earth as the mice haven't finished with it
yet!!
Daniel
<Snip>
> Now their experiment is complete, they will either destroy Earth
> because they have no more use for it, or give it to another suitably
> advanced alien (such as a renegade Timelord) to use for a similar
> experiment. But either way, they're still not interested in
> conquering it.
>
yet!!
Daniel
solar penguin
Sep 24, 2017, 12:21:28 PM9/24/17
to
If Tim is still compiling lists of animals, I forgot to mention that
the Master prepared to sacrifice a chicken at the end of episode
4. This is edited out of the reprise in episode 5, meaning that
anyone who missed it first time round will have no idea what Jo
is reacting so strongly to.
I also forgot to mention how great Azal's face is. And I'm not the
only one who thinks so, since it was reused without permission
as a Fire Demon in the Horror Top Trumps cards:
http://hypnogoria.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/tomb-of-trumps-06-devil-priest-pack.html
And now on to the fifth and final episode...
-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
Bok, who can and does disintegrate people, doesn't do so to
Mike Yates. Instead, he just settles for zapping Mike's gun out
of his hand. (That's the advantage of being a main character!)
Although the Master's alien allies have usually been ready to
betray him at the slightest opportunity, the villagers here have
to be persuaded to do. Does this mean humans value loyalty
more than aliens do? Or just that we're more stupid?
Miss Hawthorne shows some human stupidity of her own,
when the Doctor is trying to tell the villagers that the Master
isn't a wizard and the secret science of the Dæmons is still
science. Her blurting out "But that is magic! That's precisely
what black magic is!" isn't going to help. Is her pride in her
chosen belief system so great that she's prepared to see the
world destroyed for it?
Worse, the programme _never_ establishes what the difference
between magic and science actually is, despite everyone's
continued insistence on its importance. (For those of you
playing along at home: if something's reliable enough for you to
make testable, accurate predictions based on it, then it's
science; if it's not, then it isn't. I'm simplifying, of course, but
that's roughly the idea.)
Sgt Osgood has actually taken the trouble to make a printed
label saying "Boost" for the energy buffer's booster switch.
Maybe if he hadn't spent time doing stuff like that, he would've
finished a lot quicker!
Talking of the energy buffer device, I'm still not sure how it's
supposed to work. It's generating the tunnel in the heat barrier,
but the tunnel doesn't move when it does. It's powered by
cables from a nearby HT pylon going to what looks like a
normal three-pin socket on an extension lead, but it overloads
after it's been unplugged. Does any of this make sense to you?
Master: "You realise, of course, that you're a doomed man,
Doctor?"
Doctor: "Oh, I'm a dead man. I knew that as soon as I came
through that door, so you'd better watch out. You see, I've
nothing to lose, have I?"
The serial's first scene of Pertwee/Delgado verbal sparring. I
hadn't realised how much I missed it. Why did the writers have
to keep them apart for so long?
One bit of that verbal sparring became the focus of controversy
for fandom in the 90s. Some fans felt the Doctor was being too
soft on Hitler by only calling him a "bounder". That misses the
point about how the Doctor was taunting the Master with a
perfect example of the three-stage burn. First the Doctor almost
seems as if maybe he could be agreeing with the Master: "I seem
to remember somebody else speaking like that." Then he casts
doubt on that by calling the man a "bounder", and finally
reveals it was Hitler or Genghis Khan. In its proper context,
this is a great line.
What's not so great is the Doctor just plain refusing
custodianship of Earth. Even though he doesn't want it, he
could just accept, never use it, then formally set Earth free.
Instead his own stubborn pride means he'd rather try to
persuade Azal to set Earth free right now, even though that was
never going to work.
Meanwhile, back in the churchyard, the bazooka can
temporarily incapacitate Bok, but not destroy him. Why don't
they just keep firing it at him every time he recovers?
And now we come to the moment I've been dreading: the
resolution. To call it a "deus ex machina" is an insult to all
gods and all machines, ever. Azal the Dæmon gets so confused
by Jo's impulsive attempt at self-sacrifice that he acts like an
eighties Dalek: he glows, spins round, yells "Irrational!
Irrational! There is no data!" and explodes!
What must life be like on the planet Dæmos if its inhabitants
explode whenever they get confused? And why does Jo's
impulsive self-sacrifice confuse Azal, while the Doctor's earlier
"I know I'm a dead man," didn't? And why would aliens whose
entire science is based on people's irrational emotions be so
confused by someone acting emotionally and irrationally
anyway?
Maybe this ending could work as part of a supernatural-based
horror story. It would still be a cliché, but at least it would
make sense. It just plain doesn't work in a story that keeps
trying to tell us how rational and scientific it all is. The Dæmon
may be defeated, but the Doctor has lost the ideological battle.
(Luckily, next time he faces an ancient alien who helped inspire
the Satan myth, victory will depend on real science: the time for
a radio signal to travel from Mars to Earth.)
On the bright side, there's a really nice fakeout, where it looks
like the Master will get away at the end again, as usual, only for
the Doctor to bring him back using the remote control we first
saw in episode one.
Doctor: "Look after him [the Master]. I want to deal with him
later."
Master: "Do you, Doctor? You always were an optimist, weren't
you?"
Doctor: "Thank you for the compliment."
Here we have the first hint of the Doctor wanting to reform the
Master, which would eventually play out in Capaldi's last
season.
Finally, for Tim: Miss Hawthorne notices that the birds are
singing again.
-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
All in all, very uneven story. That's only to be expected, since
this is DW's first ever attempt at gothic horror, and that is a
very difficult genre to do well, just because it's all too easy just
to go for the spooky atmosphere without having a story that
makes sense.
Many of DW's later gothic stories would do it much better, just
because they learned from previous mistakes. (OTOH one very
gothic story didn't learn and repeated the whole "Sleeping alien
scientist in a buried spaceship is awakened and plans to
destroy the Earth because he thinks his research has been a
failure, but becoming confused by people's behaviour causes
him to explode, destroying him and the building he's in"
storyline completely. But that's an exception.)
But, ironically, it's because "The Dæmons" is so different and
experimental that makes it the most perfectly typical Pertwee-
era story, since the Pertwee era's Earth exile arc was in its own
way just as much of an uneven experiment.
the Master prepared to sacrifice a chicken at the end of episode
4. This is edited out of the reprise in episode 5, meaning that
anyone who missed it first time round will have no idea what Jo
is reacting so strongly to.
I also forgot to mention how great Azal's face is. And I'm not the
only one who thinks so, since it was reused without permission
as a Fire Demon in the Horror Top Trumps cards:
http://hypnogoria.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/tomb-of-trumps-06-devil-priest-pack.html
And now on to the fifth and final episode...
-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
Mike Yates. Instead, he just settles for zapping Mike's gun out
of his hand. (That's the advantage of being a main character!)
Although the Master's alien allies have usually been ready to
betray him at the slightest opportunity, the villagers here have
to be persuaded to do. Does this mean humans value loyalty
more than aliens do? Or just that we're more stupid?
Miss Hawthorne shows some human stupidity of her own,
when the Doctor is trying to tell the villagers that the Master
isn't a wizard and the secret science of the Dæmons is still
science. Her blurting out "But that is magic! That's precisely
what black magic is!" isn't going to help. Is her pride in her
chosen belief system so great that she's prepared to see the
world destroyed for it?
Worse, the programme _never_ establishes what the difference
between magic and science actually is, despite everyone's
continued insistence on its importance. (For those of you
playing along at home: if something's reliable enough for you to
make testable, accurate predictions based on it, then it's
science; if it's not, then it isn't. I'm simplifying, of course, but
that's roughly the idea.)
Sgt Osgood has actually taken the trouble to make a printed
label saying "Boost" for the energy buffer's booster switch.
Maybe if he hadn't spent time doing stuff like that, he would've
finished a lot quicker!
Talking of the energy buffer device, I'm still not sure how it's
supposed to work. It's generating the tunnel in the heat barrier,
but the tunnel doesn't move when it does. It's powered by
cables from a nearby HT pylon going to what looks like a
normal three-pin socket on an extension lead, but it overloads
after it's been unplugged. Does any of this make sense to you?
Master: "You realise, of course, that you're a doomed man,
Doctor?"
Doctor: "Oh, I'm a dead man. I knew that as soon as I came
through that door, so you'd better watch out. You see, I've
nothing to lose, have I?"
The serial's first scene of Pertwee/Delgado verbal sparring. I
hadn't realised how much I missed it. Why did the writers have
to keep them apart for so long?
One bit of that verbal sparring became the focus of controversy
for fandom in the 90s. Some fans felt the Doctor was being too
soft on Hitler by only calling him a "bounder". That misses the
point about how the Doctor was taunting the Master with a
perfect example of the three-stage burn. First the Doctor almost
seems as if maybe he could be agreeing with the Master: "I seem
to remember somebody else speaking like that." Then he casts
doubt on that by calling the man a "bounder", and finally
reveals it was Hitler or Genghis Khan. In its proper context,
this is a great line.
What's not so great is the Doctor just plain refusing
custodianship of Earth. Even though he doesn't want it, he
could just accept, never use it, then formally set Earth free.
Instead his own stubborn pride means he'd rather try to
persuade Azal to set Earth free right now, even though that was
never going to work.
Meanwhile, back in the churchyard, the bazooka can
temporarily incapacitate Bok, but not destroy him. Why don't
they just keep firing it at him every time he recovers?
And now we come to the moment I've been dreading: the
resolution. To call it a "deus ex machina" is an insult to all
gods and all machines, ever. Azal the Dæmon gets so confused
by Jo's impulsive attempt at self-sacrifice that he acts like an
eighties Dalek: he glows, spins round, yells "Irrational!
Irrational! There is no data!" and explodes!
What must life be like on the planet Dæmos if its inhabitants
explode whenever they get confused? And why does Jo's
impulsive self-sacrifice confuse Azal, while the Doctor's earlier
"I know I'm a dead man," didn't? And why would aliens whose
entire science is based on people's irrational emotions be so
confused by someone acting emotionally and irrationally
anyway?
Maybe this ending could work as part of a supernatural-based
horror story. It would still be a cliché, but at least it would
make sense. It just plain doesn't work in a story that keeps
trying to tell us how rational and scientific it all is. The Dæmon
may be defeated, but the Doctor has lost the ideological battle.
(Luckily, next time he faces an ancient alien who helped inspire
the Satan myth, victory will depend on real science: the time for
a radio signal to travel from Mars to Earth.)
On the bright side, there's a really nice fakeout, where it looks
like the Master will get away at the end again, as usual, only for
the Doctor to bring him back using the remote control we first
saw in episode one.
Doctor: "Look after him [the Master]. I want to deal with him
later."
Master: "Do you, Doctor? You always were an optimist, weren't
you?"
Doctor: "Thank you for the compliment."
Here we have the first hint of the Doctor wanting to reform the
Master, which would eventually play out in Capaldi's last
season.
Finally, for Tim: Miss Hawthorne notices that the birds are
singing again.
-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
this is DW's first ever attempt at gothic horror, and that is a
very difficult genre to do well, just because it's all too easy just
to go for the spooky atmosphere without having a story that
makes sense.
Many of DW's later gothic stories would do it much better, just
because they learned from previous mistakes. (OTOH one very
gothic story didn't learn and repeated the whole "Sleeping alien
scientist in a buried spaceship is awakened and plans to
destroy the Earth because he thinks his research has been a
failure, but becoming confused by people's behaviour causes
him to explode, destroying him and the building he's in"
storyline completely. But that's an exception.)
But, ironically, it's because "The Dæmons" is so different and
experimental that makes it the most perfectly typical Pertwee-
era story, since the Pertwee era's Earth exile arc was in its own
way just as much of an uneven experiment.
Tim Bruening
Sep 24, 2017, 7:17:49 PM9/24/17
to
On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 9:21:28 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
> If Tim is still compiling lists of animals, I forgot to mention that
> the Master prepared to sacrifice a chicken at the end of episode
> 4. This is edited out of the reprise in episode 5, meaning that
> anyone who missed it first time round will have no idea what Jo
> is reacting so strongly to.
>
> I also forgot to mention how great Azal's face is. And I'm not the
> only one who thinks so, since it was reused without permission
> as a Fire Demon in the Horror Top Trumps cards:
> http://hypnogoria.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/tomb-of-trumps-06-devil-priest-pack.html
Trump? Trump? Did someone mention Trump?
> If Tim is still compiling lists of animals, I forgot to mention that
> the Master prepared to sacrifice a chicken at the end of episode
> 4. This is edited out of the reprise in episode 5, meaning that
> anyone who missed it first time round will have no idea what Jo
> is reacting so strongly to.
>
> I also forgot to mention how great Azal's face is. And I'm not the
> only one who thinks so, since it was reused without permission
> as a Fire Demon in the Horror Top Trumps cards:
> http://hypnogoria.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/tomb-of-trumps-06-devil-priest-pack.html
Tim Bruening
Sep 24, 2017, 7:26:22 PM9/24/17
to
On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 9:21:28 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
>
>
> Although the Master's alien allies have usually been ready to
> betray him at the slightest opportunity, the villagers here have
> to be persuaded to do. Does this mean humans value loyalty
> more than aliens do? Or just that we're more stupid?
The aliens might be more familiar with the Master's true nature than us humans, so are more ready to betray him.
> betray him at the slightest opportunity, the villagers here have
> to be persuaded to do. Does this mean humans value loyalty
> more than aliens do? Or just that we're more stupid?
>
> Miss Hawthorne shows some human stupidity of her own,
> when the Doctor is trying to tell the villagers that the Master
> isn't a wizard and the secret science of the Dæmons is still
> science. Her blurting out "But that is magic! That's precisely
> what black magic is!" isn't going to help. Is her pride in her
> chosen belief system so great that she's prepared to see the
> world destroyed for it?
Quite possible. Its a common trait for fanatics, such as Trumpers and ISIS.
> Miss Hawthorne shows some human stupidity of her own,
> when the Doctor is trying to tell the villagers that the Master
> isn't a wizard and the secret science of the Dæmons is still
> science. Her blurting out "But that is magic! That's precisely
> what black magic is!" isn't going to help. Is her pride in her
> chosen belief system so great that she's prepared to see the
> world destroyed for it?
>
> Worse, the programme _never_ establishes what the difference
> between magic and science actually is, despite everyone's
> continued insistence on its importance. (For those of you
> playing along at home: if something's reliable enough for you to
> make testable, accurate predictions based on it, then it's
> science; if it's not, then it isn't. I'm simplifying, of course, but
> that's roughly the idea.)
How can magic be useful if you can't predict what particular spells will do?
> Worse, the programme _never_ establishes what the difference
> between magic and science actually is, despite everyone's
> continued insistence on its importance. (For those of you
> playing along at home: if something's reliable enough for you to
> make testable, accurate predictions based on it, then it's
> science; if it's not, then it isn't. I'm simplifying, of course, but
> that's roughly the idea.)
>
> Sgt Osgood has actually taken the trouble to make a printed
> label saying "Boost" for the energy buffer's booster switch.
> Maybe if he hadn't spent time doing stuff like that, he would've
> finished a lot quicker!
Is he the father of the Osgoods we see in New Who?
> Sgt Osgood has actually taken the trouble to make a printed
> label saying "Boost" for the energy buffer's booster switch.
> Maybe if he hadn't spent time doing stuff like that, he would've
> finished a lot quicker!
>
> Talking of the energy buffer device, I'm still not sure how it's
> supposed to work. It's generating the tunnel in the heat barrier,
> but the tunnel doesn't move when it does. It's powered by
> cables from a nearby HT pylon going to what looks like a
> normal three-pin socket on an extension lead, but it overloads
> after it's been unplugged. Does any of this make sense to you?
It must be magic!
> Talking of the energy buffer device, I'm still not sure how it's
> supposed to work. It's generating the tunnel in the heat barrier,
> but the tunnel doesn't move when it does. It's powered by
> cables from a nearby HT pylon going to what looks like a
> normal three-pin socket on an extension lead, but it overloads
> after it's been unplugged. Does any of this make sense to you?
Tim Bruening
Sep 24, 2017, 7:33:42 PM9/24/17
to
On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 9:21:28 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
>
>
> What's not so great is the Doctor just plain refusing
> custodianship of Earth. Even though he doesn't want it, he
> could just accept, never use it, then formally set Earth free.
> Instead his own stubborn pride means he'd rather try to
> persuade Azal to set Earth free right now, even though that was
> never going to work.
Maybe the Doctor would feel morally obligated to rule Earth if he accepted custodianship of Earth. Also, accepting custodianship of Earth would mean accepting Azal's right to decide Earth's fate.
> custodianship of Earth. Even though he doesn't want it, he
> could just accept, never use it, then formally set Earth free.
> Instead his own stubborn pride means he'd rather try to
> persuade Azal to set Earth free right now, even though that was
> never going to work.
solar penguin
Sep 25, 2017, 4:19:30 AM9/25/17
to
On Monday, 25 September 2017 00:26:22 UTC+1, Tim Bruening wrote:
> On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 9:21:28 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
>
> >
> > Worse, the programme _never_ establishes what the difference
> > between magic and science actually is, despite everyone's
> > continued insistence on its importance. (For those of you
> > playing along at home: if something's reliable enough for you to
> > make testable, accurate predictions based on it, then it's
> > science; if it's not, then it isn't. I'm simplifying, of course, but
> > that's roughly the idea.)
>
> How can magic be useful if you can't predict what particular spells will
> do?
The simple answer: It's not useful. That's why, in the real world, people
> On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 9:21:28 AM UTC-7, solar penguin wrote:
>
> >
> > Worse, the programme _never_ establishes what the difference
> > between magic and science actually is, despite everyone's
> > continued insistence on its importance. (For those of you
> > playing along at home: if something's reliable enough for you to
> > make testable, accurate predictions based on it, then it's
> > science; if it's not, then it isn't. I'm simplifying, of course, but
> > that's roughly the idea.)
>
> How can magic be useful if you can't predict what particular spells will
> do?
usually tend to rely on science rather than magic. (e.g. I assume you're
reading this on a computer or similar device, not a crystal ball!)
A more interesting answer: Whenever magic is reliable enough to be useful,
it gets taken over by scientists and rebranded as science. (e.g. Aspirin
literally started out as a magic potion made by witches for centuries
before science got involved!)
So, if Miss Hawthorne's magic allows her to predictably manipulate elemental
forces, then the Doctor is right and it _must be_ a form of science. But
the serial never actually explains that this is what makes it science. We
end up with the impression that it's science because the Doctor says so, and
he's a scientist, and he says so.
Pudentame
Sep 25, 2017, 3:38:58 PM9/25/17
to
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic", works both ways ...
Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Daniel60
Sep 26, 2017, 7:16:40 AM9/26/17
to
On 26/09/2017 5:38 AM, Pudentame wrote:
<Snip>
> Arthur C. Clarke's third law:
>
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
> magic", works both ways ...
>
> Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
>
Does everyone work on making *three* laws to explain the world??
O.K., Asimov had to come up with a fourth law (his Zeroth law) and, just
because you typed "Arthur C. Clarke's third law: " doesn't mean that he
*only* had three laws, but ....
Daniel
<Snip>
> Arthur C. Clarke's third law:
>
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
> magic", works both ways ...
>
> Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
>
O.K., Asimov had to come up with a fourth law (his Zeroth law) and, just
because you typed "Arthur C. Clarke's third law: " doesn't mean that he
*only* had three laws, but ....
Daniel
Pudentame
Sep 28, 2017, 5:15:37 PM9/28/17
to
and technology become indistinguishable.
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