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AGA S11E07 Float Like A Butterfly
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Agamemnon
Jul 2, 2016, 7:00:51 PM7/2/16
to
Float Like A Butterfly
Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic Rumble in
the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view outside
in the control room.
The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it was the
1970s.
The Doctor mentions it might be a good idea to cover up and ushers them
to the TARDIS wardrobe. The girls enter the wardrobe and put on similar
looking costumes as those worn by the people in the street, but refuse
to cover their heads with a hijab.
They all step out of the TARDIS and find themselves in some kind of
warehouse. They hear the crowds in the distance calling Ali, Ali. They
exit the warehouse and follow the voices and arrive at a huge parade
taking place through a broad avenue.
An entourage bearing a litter passes through the street. The girls guess
that this must be Muhammed Ali and move closer to the front of the crowd
to get a better view, followed cautiously by the Doctor.
Inside the litter they see a man covered in rich clothing. They can't
see much of his face since he's waving to the crowd in the other
direction. The Doctor asks someone in the crowd if this is Muhammed Ali
and they say "yes, yes, this is indeed the great Muhammed Ali."
Lara thinks it's some kind of publicity stunt put on for the media which
is all part of the hype surrounding the fight and calls out to Ali to
turn round. The odd thing though is that they can see no sign of
photographers. Maybe they haven't got there yet. It's is the 70s after all.
The girls are noticed by one of Ali's entourage who asks then if they
want to meet Ali and dance for him at a celebration. They accept.
As they journey to Ali's residence the Doctor notices that there is
something strange about their surroundings. Nothing modern is visible,
no TV aerials, public telephones or cars on the roads, only horses and
carriages. The girls put it down to Zaire being backwards and the
streets being cleared for the publicity stunt. The Doctor thinks he's
been here before and very recently.
They are all ushered into what looks like a palace. The women are
separated from the men. The Doctor follows his guide into a great hall
where rugs, cushions and small tables are strewn across the floor.
Everyone has to enter in bare feet after being washed and prayers are
chanted to Allah.
The girls are taken to what looks like a harem and given skimpy
bejeweled costumes woven with golden thread to change into.
When everyone is ready in the dining hall the feast begins. Sweets
resembling Turkish delight and baklava are handed out as appetizers.
Middle eastern music is heard being played by the musicians seated on
the floor.
Dancing girls including Lara and Rani are ushered into the dining hall
with bells and tiny symbols tied around their fingers and ankles,
dancing to the music.
They all enter and form a circle in the open space in the middle of the
room lit by oil lamps. On one side is a huge dais with an ornate throne
in the middle resembling a huge golden cushion. Slaves with fans are at
each side. The music stops and a fanfare is played. A richly dressed man
enters in procession with his attendants, wearing a fez. The Doctor
remarks fezzes are cool. The dancers separate to either side of the man
in the fez and he climbs the dais, turns and sits on the cushion.
He is announced as Muhammad Ali, but he has pale skin. Everyone bows
down to him as he sits.
Another man enters the same way also waring a fez, and sits on the next
to Muhammad Ali.
He is announced as Ibrahim Pasha son of Muhammad Ali Pasha, Khedive of
Egypt and Sudan.
The Doctor and his companions now realize are not in Kinshasa, Zaire but
still in Cairo, Egypt, and not in 1974!
The meal is served and the girls are brought on to dance.
Ibrahim notices Lara and Rani and asks them to sit by his side and share
the meal.
The Doctor given the way he is dressed and a dose of psychic paper is
mistaken for the aid of British minister plenipotentiary to the Ottoman
Empire, William Turner and invited to sit at the side of Muhammad Ali to
discuss foreign policy.
The Doctor says they have made a misstate and introduces himself as to
Muhammad Ali as George Foreman, the ministerial aid to William Turner.
Ali explains to him that he has been asked by Sultan Mahmud II to stop
the Greek's from rebelling by sending a navel force to attack the island
of Hydra in return for control over the island of Crete. He wants to
know if the British will support him and both Ali and Ibrahim begin
offering huge bribes to the Doctor which he repeatedly turns down,
saying Britain is officially neutral.
Ibrahim decides to retire and asks Ali if he can take the two girls with
him. Ali agrees and the Ibrahim orders his bodyguards to take the two
girls with him to his room.
In the hall the celebrations continue but the Doctor takes his leave of Ali.
Inside Ibrahim's bedroom furs are strewn in the middle of the floor
covered with silks and cushions. Silks and tapestries cover the walls
with branched stands bearing oil lambs for illumination stood in the
corners and hanging from the ceiling.
The girls are instructed to lie on the rugs and the sultan's bodyguards
depart.
Meanwhile after making inquiries as to where the girls might have been
taken the Doctor has left the great hall and is making his way through
corridors. Turning a corner he is confronted by a man wearing an ottoman
uniform with a belt for his sword around his waist.
He begins to draw the weapon as he challenges the Doctor, who are you
and what are you doing here? The Doctor explains that he is the British
envoy to Constantinople and a guest of Muhammad Ali. The man lets him
pass but then turns around and draws his sword again. Before he can
fully take it out of its sheath the Doctor paralyses him with a Venusian
nerve grip.
Ibrahim begins to take his rich silks off and the girls know exactly
what he wants.
Naughty Pasha says Lara as Ibrahim reaches out for her. We're not the
kind of girls you think we are says Rani shaking a finger at him. What
do you mean? says Ali's son.
Rani kisses Lara on the lips.
'Tis an abomination against Allah, roars Ibrahim and backs off
astonished. Then he regains his temper. But Allah is all forgiving and
all merciful is he not? he whispers, and begins to approach the girls
again.
The girls try to escape by running across the room trying to reach the
door. They are stopped by Ibrahim who blocks their way. They rush to the
other side of the room and Ibrahim comes after them. Rani is trapped and
grabs hold of one of the tapestries trying to climb out of reach. The
tapestry covered in butterfly patters collapses and behind it is
standing an Egyptian soldier with knife drawn. Rani backs away. Suddenly
another tapestry begins to move and another soldier emerges from behind.
There is something odd about him, as if he's wearing too many clothes on
top of each other. It's the Doctor. He draws his sword and disarms the
first solder, leading Rani and Lara away from Ibrahim.
Other solders emerge from the tapestries and draw their weapons. The
three companions back away towards where the Doctor first appeared as he
holds the soldiers back.
Another door is located behind the tapestries which the soldiers on
guard duty use to enter and leave the room, and they all back down it
fighting through the corridors of the palace, the girls picking up
missiles to throw at the soldiers.
The Doctor having rescued the girls from the palace enters the outer
courtyard and they all exit and dash through the streets to where he
parked the TARDIS in the warehouse near the bank of the river Nile. It
is gone.
They exist through the far door and in the distance the Doctor sees it
being loaded onto a ship headed for Alexandria.
Suddenly swordsmen come rushing towards the Doctor and his companions
from all directions. They are trapped.
Meanwhile, while this has all been transpiring, a plot is been hatched
by supporters of Greek independence to blow Ibrahim's fleet of ships up
before it can sail for Greece. They plan on posing as Egyptian sailors
to get aboard the ships and ignite the gunpowder stores for the cannons
in the hold.
The Doctor and his companions run by the hashish den that the
conspirators have been meeting in and are beckoned inside by someone
from inside who has seen them running from the swordsmen and suspects
they are fellow freedom fighters.
Inside the Doctor tosses off his uniform to reveal his normal clothes
and the girls are given hijabs to wear before the soldiers can reach the
door and begin a search. Everyone merges in with the hash smokers.
It is night when the heat is over the Doctor thanks the people who saved
him and explains that Ibrahim tried to take advantage of the girls. The
conspirators recognize him as being British and he tells them he was a
friend of Lord Byron and supports a free Greece recognizing the
conspirators as being Greek.
After a long discussion the Doctor tells his new friends that Ibrahim's
men took something that belongs to him, a tall blue box with a lamp on
top, with valuable items inside and put it on one of the ships anchored
in the harbour. He asks if they can help him get on board the ship. They
ask why they should help him. The Doctor tells them that the ship is
Ibrahim's flagship and that from a conversation he had with Muhammad Ali
in the palace the ship will sail to Alexandria in the morning to join
the fleet that is being sent to assert control over Greece.
Ibrahim will be on board the ship and if they can get on board with
enough men then they might be able to assassinate him. They mull over
the idea but how to get on board. The Doctor suggests they make pursuit
by commandeering another ship, one of the support ships in the harbour
which no one will notice, and then boarding the flagship by night and
taking it by surprise. He tells them that he can navigate pilot it,
being an officer in the royal navy.
They set off to enact their plan and take hold of the support ship.
In the morning Ibrahim boards his flagship and it sets sail. The
conspirators follow at a distance.
The ships approach Alexandria and a vast fleet can be seen assembled in
the distance stretching in all directions.
Night falls and while everyone else is sleeping the Doctor and his
companions get ready for the assault. But the conspirators have other
plans in mind. There will be no boarding planks. Instead they will blow
Ibrahim's flagship up as soon as they get within cannon range. But the
Doctor tells them they have no gunpowder. It's doesn't get put on board
until they get to Alexandria.
It turns out that conspirators smuggled gunpowder aboard the ship when
it was in Cairo and they have enough for a broadside. If it succeeds in
sinking the ship the TARDIS will be lost.
The Doctor struggles to stop them but they hold him back at knife point
along with the girls.
...to be continued.
Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic Rumble in
the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view outside
in the control room.
The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it was the
1970s.
The Doctor mentions it might be a good idea to cover up and ushers them
to the TARDIS wardrobe. The girls enter the wardrobe and put on similar
looking costumes as those worn by the people in the street, but refuse
to cover their heads with a hijab.
They all step out of the TARDIS and find themselves in some kind of
warehouse. They hear the crowds in the distance calling Ali, Ali. They
exit the warehouse and follow the voices and arrive at a huge parade
taking place through a broad avenue.
An entourage bearing a litter passes through the street. The girls guess
that this must be Muhammed Ali and move closer to the front of the crowd
to get a better view, followed cautiously by the Doctor.
Inside the litter they see a man covered in rich clothing. They can't
see much of his face since he's waving to the crowd in the other
direction. The Doctor asks someone in the crowd if this is Muhammed Ali
and they say "yes, yes, this is indeed the great Muhammed Ali."
Lara thinks it's some kind of publicity stunt put on for the media which
is all part of the hype surrounding the fight and calls out to Ali to
turn round. The odd thing though is that they can see no sign of
photographers. Maybe they haven't got there yet. It's is the 70s after all.
The girls are noticed by one of Ali's entourage who asks then if they
want to meet Ali and dance for him at a celebration. They accept.
As they journey to Ali's residence the Doctor notices that there is
something strange about their surroundings. Nothing modern is visible,
no TV aerials, public telephones or cars on the roads, only horses and
carriages. The girls put it down to Zaire being backwards and the
streets being cleared for the publicity stunt. The Doctor thinks he's
been here before and very recently.
They are all ushered into what looks like a palace. The women are
separated from the men. The Doctor follows his guide into a great hall
where rugs, cushions and small tables are strewn across the floor.
Everyone has to enter in bare feet after being washed and prayers are
chanted to Allah.
The girls are taken to what looks like a harem and given skimpy
bejeweled costumes woven with golden thread to change into.
When everyone is ready in the dining hall the feast begins. Sweets
resembling Turkish delight and baklava are handed out as appetizers.
Middle eastern music is heard being played by the musicians seated on
the floor.
Dancing girls including Lara and Rani are ushered into the dining hall
with bells and tiny symbols tied around their fingers and ankles,
dancing to the music.
They all enter and form a circle in the open space in the middle of the
room lit by oil lamps. On one side is a huge dais with an ornate throne
in the middle resembling a huge golden cushion. Slaves with fans are at
each side. The music stops and a fanfare is played. A richly dressed man
enters in procession with his attendants, wearing a fez. The Doctor
remarks fezzes are cool. The dancers separate to either side of the man
in the fez and he climbs the dais, turns and sits on the cushion.
He is announced as Muhammad Ali, but he has pale skin. Everyone bows
down to him as he sits.
Another man enters the same way also waring a fez, and sits on the next
to Muhammad Ali.
He is announced as Ibrahim Pasha son of Muhammad Ali Pasha, Khedive of
Egypt and Sudan.
The Doctor and his companions now realize are not in Kinshasa, Zaire but
still in Cairo, Egypt, and not in 1974!
The meal is served and the girls are brought on to dance.
Ibrahim notices Lara and Rani and asks them to sit by his side and share
the meal.
The Doctor given the way he is dressed and a dose of psychic paper is
mistaken for the aid of British minister plenipotentiary to the Ottoman
Empire, William Turner and invited to sit at the side of Muhammad Ali to
discuss foreign policy.
The Doctor says they have made a misstate and introduces himself as to
Muhammad Ali as George Foreman, the ministerial aid to William Turner.
Ali explains to him that he has been asked by Sultan Mahmud II to stop
the Greek's from rebelling by sending a navel force to attack the island
of Hydra in return for control over the island of Crete. He wants to
know if the British will support him and both Ali and Ibrahim begin
offering huge bribes to the Doctor which he repeatedly turns down,
saying Britain is officially neutral.
Ibrahim decides to retire and asks Ali if he can take the two girls with
him. Ali agrees and the Ibrahim orders his bodyguards to take the two
girls with him to his room.
In the hall the celebrations continue but the Doctor takes his leave of Ali.
Inside Ibrahim's bedroom furs are strewn in the middle of the floor
covered with silks and cushions. Silks and tapestries cover the walls
with branched stands bearing oil lambs for illumination stood in the
corners and hanging from the ceiling.
The girls are instructed to lie on the rugs and the sultan's bodyguards
depart.
Meanwhile after making inquiries as to where the girls might have been
taken the Doctor has left the great hall and is making his way through
corridors. Turning a corner he is confronted by a man wearing an ottoman
uniform with a belt for his sword around his waist.
He begins to draw the weapon as he challenges the Doctor, who are you
and what are you doing here? The Doctor explains that he is the British
envoy to Constantinople and a guest of Muhammad Ali. The man lets him
pass but then turns around and draws his sword again. Before he can
fully take it out of its sheath the Doctor paralyses him with a Venusian
nerve grip.
Ibrahim begins to take his rich silks off and the girls know exactly
what he wants.
Naughty Pasha says Lara as Ibrahim reaches out for her. We're not the
kind of girls you think we are says Rani shaking a finger at him. What
do you mean? says Ali's son.
Rani kisses Lara on the lips.
'Tis an abomination against Allah, roars Ibrahim and backs off
astonished. Then he regains his temper. But Allah is all forgiving and
all merciful is he not? he whispers, and begins to approach the girls
again.
The girls try to escape by running across the room trying to reach the
door. They are stopped by Ibrahim who blocks their way. They rush to the
other side of the room and Ibrahim comes after them. Rani is trapped and
grabs hold of one of the tapestries trying to climb out of reach. The
tapestry covered in butterfly patters collapses and behind it is
standing an Egyptian soldier with knife drawn. Rani backs away. Suddenly
another tapestry begins to move and another soldier emerges from behind.
There is something odd about him, as if he's wearing too many clothes on
top of each other. It's the Doctor. He draws his sword and disarms the
first solder, leading Rani and Lara away from Ibrahim.
Other solders emerge from the tapestries and draw their weapons. The
three companions back away towards where the Doctor first appeared as he
holds the soldiers back.
Another door is located behind the tapestries which the soldiers on
guard duty use to enter and leave the room, and they all back down it
fighting through the corridors of the palace, the girls picking up
missiles to throw at the soldiers.
The Doctor having rescued the girls from the palace enters the outer
courtyard and they all exit and dash through the streets to where he
parked the TARDIS in the warehouse near the bank of the river Nile. It
is gone.
They exist through the far door and in the distance the Doctor sees it
being loaded onto a ship headed for Alexandria.
Suddenly swordsmen come rushing towards the Doctor and his companions
from all directions. They are trapped.
Meanwhile, while this has all been transpiring, a plot is been hatched
by supporters of Greek independence to blow Ibrahim's fleet of ships up
before it can sail for Greece. They plan on posing as Egyptian sailors
to get aboard the ships and ignite the gunpowder stores for the cannons
in the hold.
The Doctor and his companions run by the hashish den that the
conspirators have been meeting in and are beckoned inside by someone
from inside who has seen them running from the swordsmen and suspects
they are fellow freedom fighters.
Inside the Doctor tosses off his uniform to reveal his normal clothes
and the girls are given hijabs to wear before the soldiers can reach the
door and begin a search. Everyone merges in with the hash smokers.
It is night when the heat is over the Doctor thanks the people who saved
him and explains that Ibrahim tried to take advantage of the girls. The
conspirators recognize him as being British and he tells them he was a
friend of Lord Byron and supports a free Greece recognizing the
conspirators as being Greek.
After a long discussion the Doctor tells his new friends that Ibrahim's
men took something that belongs to him, a tall blue box with a lamp on
top, with valuable items inside and put it on one of the ships anchored
in the harbour. He asks if they can help him get on board the ship. They
ask why they should help him. The Doctor tells them that the ship is
Ibrahim's flagship and that from a conversation he had with Muhammad Ali
in the palace the ship will sail to Alexandria in the morning to join
the fleet that is being sent to assert control over Greece.
Ibrahim will be on board the ship and if they can get on board with
enough men then they might be able to assassinate him. They mull over
the idea but how to get on board. The Doctor suggests they make pursuit
by commandeering another ship, one of the support ships in the harbour
which no one will notice, and then boarding the flagship by night and
taking it by surprise. He tells them that he can navigate pilot it,
being an officer in the royal navy.
They set off to enact their plan and take hold of the support ship.
In the morning Ibrahim boards his flagship and it sets sail. The
conspirators follow at a distance.
The ships approach Alexandria and a vast fleet can be seen assembled in
the distance stretching in all directions.
Night falls and while everyone else is sleeping the Doctor and his
companions get ready for the assault. But the conspirators have other
plans in mind. There will be no boarding planks. Instead they will blow
Ibrahim's flagship up as soon as they get within cannon range. But the
Doctor tells them they have no gunpowder. It's doesn't get put on board
until they get to Alexandria.
It turns out that conspirators smuggled gunpowder aboard the ship when
it was in Cairo and they have enough for a broadside. If it succeeds in
sinking the ship the TARDIS will be lost.
The Doctor struggles to stop them but they hold him back at knife point
along with the girls.
...to be continued.
Agamemnon
Jul 2, 2016, 7:07:59 PM7/2/16
to
William Turner and is invited to sit at the side of Muhammad Ali to
discuss foreign policy.
The Doctor says they have made a mistake and introduces himself to
The Doctor
Jul 2, 2016, 7:32:18 PM7/2/16
to
In article <zbednfoFAbA92uXK...@brightview.co.uk>,
alt.drwho.creative is around the corner.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Language is the source of misunderstandings. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Language is the source of misunderstandings. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Tim Bruening
Jul 2, 2016, 11:03:42 PM7/2/16
to
Tim Bruening
Jul 2, 2016, 11:30:22 PM7/2/16
to
Will the next episode be "Sting Like A Bee"?
The Doctor
Jul 3, 2016, 8:14:58 AM7/3/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 3, 2016, 8:19:15 AM7/3/16
to
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 8:41:44 AM7/3/16
to
On 03/07/2016 04:03, Tim Bruening wrote:
> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>
> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>
>> The Doctor and his companions now realize are not in Kinshasa, Zaire but
>> still in Cairo, Egypt, and not in 1974!
>
> Why hadn't the TARDIS told them where and when they were? After all, it was able to project a 3-D view of the TARDIS' surroundings!
>
As usual the Doctor didn't make full check and the TARDIS has a has a
>> still in Cairo, Egypt, and not in 1974!
>
> Why hadn't the TARDIS told them where and when they were? After all, it was able to project a 3-D view of the TARDIS' surroundings!
>
habit of materializing in the wrong places at the wrong time.
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 8:42:37 AM7/3/16
to
On 03/07/2016 04:30, Tim Bruening wrote:
> Will the next episode be "Sting Like A Bee"?
>
Whatever made you think that?
> Will the next episode be "Sting Like A Bee"?
>
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 8:45:21 AM7/3/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 3, 2016, 8:55:32 AM7/3/16
to
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 8:57:43 AM7/3/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 3, 2016, 9:13:08 AM7/3/16
to
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 9:21:59 AM7/3/16
to
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 9:23:28 AM7/3/16
to
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 1:35:23 PM7/3/16
to
On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 6:13:08 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <fdb65d67-86f4-4220...@googlegroups.com>,
> TB <tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 5:41:44 AM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> On 03/07/2016 04:03, Tim Bruening wrote:
> >> > On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> >> Float Like A Butterfly
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> The Doctor and his companions now realize are not in Kinshasa, Zaire but
> >> >> still in Cairo, Egypt, and not in 1974!
> >> >
> >> > Why hadn't the TARDIS told them where and when they were? After all, it was able to project a 3-D view of the TARDIS' surroundings!
> >> >
> >>
> >> As usual the Doctor didn't make full check and the TARDIS has a has a
> >> habit of materializing in the wrong places at the wrong time.
> >
> >Did the TARDIS scanner say that the TARDIS was in Zaire in 1974?
>
> Recall what Agamemnon said, no full check.
Why would a FULL check be needed? Shouldn't the date and place be prominently displayed on the TARDIS scanner?
> In article <fdb65d67-86f4-4220...@googlegroups.com>,
> TB <tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 5:41:44 AM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> On 03/07/2016 04:03, Tim Bruening wrote:
> >> > On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> >> Float Like A Butterfly
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> The Doctor and his companions now realize are not in Kinshasa, Zaire but
> >> >> still in Cairo, Egypt, and not in 1974!
> >> >
> >> > Why hadn't the TARDIS told them where and when they were? After all, it was able to project a 3-D view of the TARDIS' surroundings!
> >> >
> >>
> >> As usual the Doctor didn't make full check and the TARDIS has a has a
> >> habit of materializing in the wrong places at the wrong time.
> >
> >Did the TARDIS scanner say that the TARDIS was in Zaire in 1974?
>
> Recall what Agamemnon said, no full check.
Also, given the frequency with which the TARDIS has gone off course, shouldn't the clothing anomolies noticed at the start of this episode have prompted the Doctor to suspect a navigational error and do a full check?
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 1:56:45 PM7/3/16
to
On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> Float Like A Butterfly
>
> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic Rumble in
> the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
> was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>
> The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view outside
> in the control room.
>
> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it was the
> 1970s.
Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads out of modesty even in the early 21st century?
>
> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic Rumble in
> the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
> was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>
> The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view outside
> in the control room.
>
> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it was the
> 1970s.
>
> The Doctor mentions it might be a good idea to cover up and ushers them
> to the TARDIS wardrobe. The girls enter the wardrobe and put on similar
> looking costumes as those worn by the people in the street, but refuse
> to cover their heads with a hijab.
So the Doctor is sensible enough to have his Companions copy the local costuming, but not sensible enough to check the local time and place on the TARDIS scanner!
> The Doctor mentions it might be a good idea to cover up and ushers them
> to the TARDIS wardrobe. The girls enter the wardrobe and put on similar
> looking costumes as those worn by the people in the street, but refuse
> to cover their heads with a hijab.
So the TARDIS crew saw most of the women of "Zaire" wearing hijabs? They should have smelled a rat right away, since according to my 2014 World Almanac, only 10% of the population of Zaire (now known as "The Democratic Republic of the Congo) were Muslim! That means that only 10% of the women should have been wearing hijabs!
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 2:02:23 PM7/3/16
to
On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 5:14:42 PM7/3/16
to
On 03/07/2016 18:35, TB wrote:
> On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 6:13:08 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
>> In article
>> <fdb65d67-86f4-4220...@googlegroups.com>, TB
>> <tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 5:41:44 AM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>> On 03/07/2016 04:03, Tim Bruening wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> The Doctor and his companions now realize are not in
>>>>>> Kinshasa, Zaire but still in Cairo, Egypt, and not in
>>>>>> 1974!
>>>>>
>>>>> Why hadn't the TARDIS told them where and when they were?
>>>>> After all, it was able to project a 3-D view of the TARDIS'
>>>>> surroundings!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As usual the Doctor didn't make full check and the TARDIS has a
>>>> has a habit of materializing in the wrong places at the wrong
>>>> time.
>>>
>>> Did the TARDIS scanner say that the TARDIS was in Zaire in 1974?
>>
>> Recall what Agamemnon said, no full check.
>
> Why would a FULL check be needed? Shouldn't the date and place be
> prominently displayed on the TARDIS scanner?
>
The TARDIS scanner is just a 3D TV.
> On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 6:13:08 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
>> In article
>> <fdb65d67-86f4-4220...@googlegroups.com>, TB
>> <tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 5:41:44 AM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>> On 03/07/2016 04:03, Tim Bruening wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> The Doctor and his companions now realize are not in
>>>>>> Kinshasa, Zaire but still in Cairo, Egypt, and not in
>>>>>> 1974!
>>>>>
>>>>> Why hadn't the TARDIS told them where and when they were?
>>>>> After all, it was able to project a 3-D view of the TARDIS'
>>>>> surroundings!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As usual the Doctor didn't make full check and the TARDIS has a
>>>> has a habit of materializing in the wrong places at the wrong
>>>> time.
>>>
>>> Did the TARDIS scanner say that the TARDIS was in Zaire in 1974?
>>
>> Recall what Agamemnon said, no full check.
>
> Why would a FULL check be needed? Shouldn't the date and place be
> prominently displayed on the TARDIS scanner?
>
> Also, given the frequency with which the TARDIS has gone off course,
> shouldn't the clothing anomolies noticed at the start of this episode
> have prompted the Doctor to suspect a navigational error and do a
> full check?
>
costumes he normally wears himself. Even if he suspected something he
would have kept it to himself because he wanted to explore.
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 5:18:13 PM7/3/16
to
On 03/07/2016 18:56, TB wrote:
> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>
>> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic
>> Rumble in the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the
>> Doctor says he was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>>
>> The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view
>> outside in the control room.
>>
>> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
>> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
>> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it
>> was the 1970s.
>
> Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads out of
> modesty even in the early 21st century?
Rani is a feminist and a Hindu.
> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>
>> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic
>> Rumble in the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the
>> Doctor says he was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>>
>> The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view
>> outside in the control room.
>>
>> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
>> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
>> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it
>> was the 1970s.
>
> Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads out of
> modesty even in the early 21st century?
>>
>> The Doctor mentions it might be a good idea to cover up and ushers
>> them to the TARDIS wardrobe. The girls enter the wardrobe and put
>> on similar looking costumes as those worn by the people in the
>> street, but refuse to cover their heads with a hijab.
>
> So the Doctor is sensible enough to have his Companions copy the
> local costuming, but not sensible enough to check the local time and
> place on the TARDIS scanner!
>
The TARDIS scanner is just a 3D TV.
> So the TARDIS crew saw most of the women of "Zaire" wearing hijabs?
> They should have smelled a rat right away, since according to my 2014
> World Almanac, only 10% of the population of Zaire (now known as "The
> Democratic Republic of the Congo) were Muslim! That means that only
> 10% of the women should have been wearing hijabs!
The TARDIS crew are not experts on geography. Muhammad Ali was a Muslim
> They should have smelled a rat right away, since according to my 2014
> World Almanac, only 10% of the population of Zaire (now known as "The
> Democratic Republic of the Congo) were Muslim! That means that only
> 10% of the women should have been wearing hijabs!
so they thought he would attract a disproportionate number of Muslims to
see him.
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 5:21:15 PM7/3/16
to
played, which is from the Middle East.
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 5:42:37 PM7/3/16
to
On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> Float Like A Butterfly
>
> Float Like A Butterfly
>
A richly dressed man
> enters in procession with his attendants, wearing a fez. The Doctor
> remarks fezzes are cool. The dancers separate to either side of the man
> in the fez and he climbs the dais, turns and sits on the cushion.
>
> He is announced as Muhammad Ali, but he has pale skin. Everyone bows
> down to him as he sits.
>
> Another man enters the same way also waring a fez, and sits on the next
> to Muhammad Ali.
>
> He is announced as Ibrahim Pasha son of Muhammad Ali Pasha, Khedive of
> Egypt and Sudan.
>
> The Doctor and his companions now realize are not in Kinshasa, Zaire but
> still in Cairo, Egypt, and not in 1974!
>
> enters in procession with his attendants, wearing a fez. The Doctor
> remarks fezzes are cool. The dancers separate to either side of the man
> in the fez and he climbs the dais, turns and sits on the cushion.
>
> He is announced as Muhammad Ali, but he has pale skin. Everyone bows
> down to him as he sits.
>
> Another man enters the same way also waring a fez, and sits on the next
> to Muhammad Ali.
>
> He is announced as Ibrahim Pasha son of Muhammad Ali Pasha, Khedive of
> Egypt and Sudan.
>
> The Doctor and his companions now realize are not in Kinshasa, Zaire but
> still in Cairo, Egypt, and not in 1974!
>
> Ali explains to him that he has been asked by Sultan Mahmud II to stop
> the Greek's from rebelling by sending a navel force to attack the island
> of Hydra in return for control over the island of Crete. He wants to
> know if the British will support him and both Ali and Ibrahim begin
> offering huge bribes to the Doctor which he repeatedly turns down,
> saying Britain is officially neutral.
I have determined when the Doctor et al are: 1825, the year the Ottoman Sultan sent a large fleet and army to Greece to suppress a Greek uprising which had started in 1821.
> the Greek's from rebelling by sending a navel force to attack the island
> of Hydra in return for control over the island of Crete. He wants to
> know if the British will support him and both Ali and Ibrahim begin
> offering huge bribes to the Doctor which he repeatedly turns down,
> saying Britain is officially neutral.
Greek agents are plotting to blow up that fleet, but the TARDIS is on one of the Ottoman ships, so the Doctor must prevent the blowing up of the fleet, which will coincidentally preserve Earth's history! The fleet did indeed invade Greece, but they were so brutal that Britain, France, and Russia intervened to destroy the Ottoman Fleet (Oct 1827) and thus secured Greek independence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Greece#The_War_of_Independence
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 5:42:54 PM7/3/16
to
On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> Float Like A Butterfly
>
Munch of Ottoman ships sailing from Cairo to Alexandria to join the fleet that's preparing to sail to Greece to brutally suppress the Greek uprising.
> Float Like A Butterfly
>
> The ships approach Alexandria and a vast fleet can be seen assembled in
> the distance stretching in all directions.
>
> Night falls and while everyone else is sleeping the Doctor and his
> companions get ready for the assault. But the conspirators have other
> plans in mind. There will be no boarding planks. Instead they will blow
> Ibrahim's flagship up as soon as they get within cannon range. But the
> Doctor tells them they have no gunpowder. It's doesn't get put on board
> until they get to Alexandria.
>
> It turns out that conspirators smuggled gunpowder aboard the ship when
> it was in Cairo and they have enough for a broadside. If it succeeds in
> sinking the ship the TARDIS will be lost.
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 5:56:57 PM7/3/16
to
invasion.
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 5:57:59 PM7/3/16
to
On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 2:14:42 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> On 03/07/2016 18:35, TB wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 6:13:08 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> >> Recall what Agamemnon said, no full check.
> >
> > Why would a FULL check be needed? Shouldn't the date and place be
> > prominently displayed on the TARDIS scanner?
> >
>
> The TARDIS scanner is just a 3D TV.
But shouldn't a scanner belonging to a time machine naturally be programmed to display temporal and spacial coordinates?
> On 03/07/2016 18:35, TB wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 6:13:08 AM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> >> Recall what Agamemnon said, no full check.
> >
> > Why would a FULL check be needed? Shouldn't the date and place be
> > prominently displayed on the TARDIS scanner?
> >
>
> The TARDIS scanner is just a 3D TV.
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 6:01:14 PM7/3/16
to
On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 2:21:15 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> On 03/07/2016 19:02, TB wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> Float Like A Butterfly
> >>
> On 03/07/2016 19:02, TB wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> Float Like A Butterfly
> >>
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 6:04:59 PM7/3/16
to
On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 2:18:13 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> On 03/07/2016 18:56, TB wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
> >> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
> >> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it
> >> was the 1970s.
> >
> > Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads out of
> > modesty even in the early 21st century?
>
> Rani is a feminist and a Hindu.
Muslims, including feminine Muslim clothing, have been in the news a lot this century! I would have expected both Rani and Lara to have heard about/seen hijabs on the news!
> On 03/07/2016 18:56, TB wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
> >> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
> >> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it
> >> was the 1970s.
> >
> > Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads out of
> > modesty even in the early 21st century?
>
> Rani is a feminist and a Hindu.
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 6:06:54 PM7/3/16
to
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 6:09:41 PM7/3/16
to
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 6:11:48 PM7/3/16
to
Why was the TARDIS taken aboard the Ottoman flagship, and not some other ship? Why did the Ottomans take the TARDIS aboard a ship at all? How do they expect a tall blue box to help them?
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 6:41:16 PM7/3/16
to
On 03/07/2016 23:11, TB wrote:
> Why was the TARDIS taken aboard the Ottoman flagship, and not some other ship? Why did the Ottomans take the TARDIS aboard a ship at all? How do they expect a tall blue box to help them?
>
It was parked in the warehouse in front of the ship along with other
> Why was the TARDIS taken aboard the Ottoman flagship, and not some other ship? Why did the Ottomans take the TARDIS aboard a ship at all? How do they expect a tall blue box to help them?
>
stuff to be loaded on board.
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 6:43:02 PM7/3/16
to
to be played for him?
The Doctor
Jul 3, 2016, 6:43:29 PM7/3/16
to
In article <ZrCdnSMMUZrcHeTK...@brightview.co.uk>,
3D? I only see 2.
>> Also, given the frequency with which the TARDIS has gone off course,
>> shouldn't the clothing anomolies noticed at the start of this episode
>> have prompted the Doctor to suspect a navigational error and do a
>> full check?
>>
>
>The Doctor doesn't care about clothing anomalies. Just look at the
>costumes he normally wears himself. Even if he suspected something he
>would have kept it to himself because he wanted to explore.
>
>> Also, given the frequency with which the TARDIS has gone off course,
>> shouldn't the clothing anomolies noticed at the start of this episode
>> have prompted the Doctor to suspect a navigational error and do a
>> full check?
>>
>
>The Doctor doesn't care about clothing anomalies. Just look at the
>costumes he normally wears himself. Even if he suspected something he
>would have kept it to himself because he wanted to explore.
>
The Doctor
Jul 3, 2016, 6:43:53 PM7/3/16
to
In article <VLWdnXlqzPuJHOTK...@brightview.co.uk>,
>
>>>
>>> The Doctor mentions it might be a good idea to cover up and ushers
>>> them to the TARDIS wardrobe. The girls enter the wardrobe and put
>>> on similar looking costumes as those worn by the people in the
>>> street, but refuse to cover their heads with a hijab.
>>
>> So the Doctor is sensible enough to have his Companions copy the
>> local costuming, but not sensible enough to check the local time and
>> place on the TARDIS scanner!
>>
>
>The TARDIS scanner is just a 3D TV.
>
>> So the TARDIS crew saw most of the women of "Zaire" wearing hijabs?
>> They should have smelled a rat right away, since according to my 2014
>> World Almanac, only 10% of the population of Zaire (now known as "The
>> Democratic Republic of the Congo) were Muslim! That means that only
>> 10% of the women should have been wearing hijabs!
>
>
>The TARDIS crew are not experts on geography. Muhammad Ali was a Muslim
>so they thought he would attract a disproportionate number of Muslims to
>see him.
>
>
Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>On 03/07/2016 18:56, TB wrote:
>> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>>
>>> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic
>>> Rumble in the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the
>>> Doctor says he was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>>>
>>> The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view
>>> outside in the control room.
>>>
>>> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
>>> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
>>> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it
>>> was the 1970s.
>>
>> Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads out of
>> modesty even in the early 21st century?
>
>Rani is a feminist and a Hindu.
The Time lady I think.
>On 03/07/2016 18:56, TB wrote:
>> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>>
>>> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic
>>> Rumble in the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the
>>> Doctor says he was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>>>
>>> The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view
>>> outside in the control room.
>>>
>>> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
>>> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
>>> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it
>>> was the 1970s.
>>
>> Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads out of
>> modesty even in the early 21st century?
>
>Rani is a feminist and a Hindu.
>
>>>
>>> The Doctor mentions it might be a good idea to cover up and ushers
>>> them to the TARDIS wardrobe. The girls enter the wardrobe and put
>>> on similar looking costumes as those worn by the people in the
>>> street, but refuse to cover their heads with a hijab.
>>
>> So the Doctor is sensible enough to have his Companions copy the
>> local costuming, but not sensible enough to check the local time and
>> place on the TARDIS scanner!
>>
>
>The TARDIS scanner is just a 3D TV.
>
>> So the TARDIS crew saw most of the women of "Zaire" wearing hijabs?
>> They should have smelled a rat right away, since according to my 2014
>> World Almanac, only 10% of the population of Zaire (now known as "The
>> Democratic Republic of the Congo) were Muslim! That means that only
>> 10% of the women should have been wearing hijabs!
>
>
>The TARDIS crew are not experts on geography. Muhammad Ali was a Muslim
>so they thought he would attract a disproportionate number of Muslims to
>see him.
>
>
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 6:43:57 PM7/3/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 3, 2016, 6:44:31 PM7/3/16
to
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 6:45:34 PM7/3/16
to
numbers and not all the stuff after the decimal points.
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 6:46:29 PM7/3/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 3, 2016, 6:46:55 PM7/3/16
to
In article <409370e4-72f4-49d2...@googlegroups.com>,
TB <tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>Why was the TARDIS taken aboard the Ottoman flagship, and not some other ship? Why did the Ottomans take the TARDIS aboard a ship at all? How do they expect a tall blue box to help them?
A new historic DW perspective.
>Why was the TARDIS taken aboard the Ottoman flagship, and not some other ship? Why did the Ottomans take the TARDIS aboard a ship at all? How do they expect a tall blue box to help them?
Tim Bruening
Jul 3, 2016, 7:02:40 PM7/3/16
to
However, since Zaire/Democratic Republic of the Congo is only 10% Muslim (and 80% Christian) , then Rani, Lara, and the Doctor should have found it odd that EVERY woman was wearing one, even taking into account the Muslim attracting properties of a Muslim boxer!
Tim Bruening
Jul 3, 2016, 7:04:19 PM7/3/16
to
On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 3:46:55 PM UTC-7, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <409370e4-72f4-49d2...@googlegroups.com>,
> TB <tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >Why was the TARDIS taken aboard the Ottoman flagship, and not some other ship? Why did the Ottomans take the TARDIS aboard a ship at all? How do they expect a tall blue box to help them?
>
> A new historic DW perspective.
But early 19th centuries Ottomans would never have watched Doctor Who, so why would they regard a tall blue box as being of historical significance?
> In article <409370e4-72f4-49d2...@googlegroups.com>,
> TB <tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >Why was the TARDIS taken aboard the Ottoman flagship, and not some other ship? Why did the Ottomans take the TARDIS aboard a ship at all? How do they expect a tall blue box to help them?
>
> A new historic DW perspective.
The Doctor
Jul 3, 2016, 7:42:00 PM7/3/16
to
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 8:13:50 PM7/3/16
to
On 04/07/2016 00:02, Tim Bruening wrote:
> On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 3:46:29 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>> On 03/07/2016 23:04, TB wrote:
>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 2:18:13 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>> On 03/07/2016 18:56, TB wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look
>>>>>> like traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks
>>>>>> that it's so backward of the people of Zaire to cover their
>>>>>> heads even if it was the 1970s.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads
>>>>> out of modesty even in the early 21st century?
>>>>
>>>> Rani is a feminist and a Hindu.
>>>
>>> Muslims, including feminine Muslim clothing, have been in the
>>> news a lot this century! I would have expected both Rani and
>>> Lara to have heard about/seen hijabs on the news!
>>>
>>
>> And they both saw them as demeaning to women so refused to wear
>> them.
>
> But it should not have surprised them that some Zairian (Muslim)
> women would be modest enough to wear hijabs, even in the 1970s. Nor
> should they be ignorant of the concept of hijabs, given their
> presence on 21st century newsmedia.
>
They are not ignorant of hijabs. They find them demeaning.
> On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 3:46:29 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>> On 03/07/2016 23:04, TB wrote:
>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 2:18:13 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>> On 03/07/2016 18:56, TB wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look
>>>>>> like traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks
>>>>>> that it's so backward of the people of Zaire to cover their
>>>>>> heads even if it was the 1970s.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads
>>>>> out of modesty even in the early 21st century?
>>>>
>>>> Rani is a feminist and a Hindu.
>>>
>>> Muslims, including feminine Muslim clothing, have been in the
>>> news a lot this century! I would have expected both Rani and
>>> Lara to have heard about/seen hijabs on the news!
>>>
>>
>> And they both saw them as demeaning to women so refused to wear
>> them.
>
> But it should not have surprised them that some Zairian (Muslim)
> women would be modest enough to wear hijabs, even in the 1970s. Nor
> should they be ignorant of the concept of hijabs, given their
> presence on 21st century newsmedia.
>
> However, since Zaire/Democratic Republic of the Congo is only 10%
> Muslim (and 80% Christian) , then Rani, Lara, and the Doctor should
> have found it odd that EVERY woman was wearing one, even taking into
> account the Muslim attracting properties of a Muslim boxer!
>
traditional African clothing and they think it's demeaning to women.
The Doctor
Jul 3, 2016, 8:27:31 PM7/3/16
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TB
Jul 3, 2016, 9:55:49 PM7/3/16
to
TB
Jul 3, 2016, 9:58:12 PM7/3/16
to
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 10:23:39 PM7/3/16
to
Gregorian calender?
TARDIS coordinates are like telephone numbers, 0181108055 etc. The
Doctor isn't going to notice if a few digits are out.
Agamemnon
Jul 3, 2016, 10:24:40 PM7/3/16
to
TB
Jul 4, 2016, 3:36:39 AM7/4/16
to
The scanner could display both Earth time and Gallifreyan time if you like.
>
> TARDIS coordinates are like telephone numbers, 0181108055 etc. The
> Doctor isn't going to notice if a few digits are out.
How would TARDIS temporal and spacial coordinates work, what with relativistic frames of reference, and the expansion of the Universe?!
> TARDIS coordinates are like telephone numbers, 0181108055 etc. The
> Doctor isn't going to notice if a few digits are out.
TB
Jul 4, 2016, 3:38:04 AM7/4/16
to
TB
Jul 4, 2016, 4:03:41 AM7/4/16
to
Do you have any plans for the Time Lady Rani (as opposed to the Companion Rani) to appear?
TB
Jul 4, 2016, 4:05:31 AM7/4/16
to
On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> Float Like A Butterfly
>
> Float Like A Butterfly
>
> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic Rumble in
> the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
> was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
Lara or Rani: What factory were you a Foreman in? What did that factory produce?
> the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
> was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
TB
Jul 4, 2016, 4:18:45 AM7/4/16
to
On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> Float Like A Butterfly
>
> Meanwhile after making inquiries as to where the girls might have been
> Float Like A Butterfly
>
> taken the Doctor has left the great hall and is making his way through
> corridors. Turning a corner he is confronted by a man wearing an ottoman
> uniform with a belt for his sword around his waist.
>
> He begins to draw the weapon as he challenges the Doctor, who are you
> and what are you doing here? The Doctor explains that he is the British
> envoy to Constantinople and a guest of Muhammad Ali. The man lets him
> pass but then turns around and draws his sword again. Before he can
> fully take it out of its sheath the Doctor paralyses him with a Venusian
> nerve grip.
When does Venus get terraformed, so that a colony can be established there, so that the Doctor can go there to learn something called the "Venusian nerve grip"?
TB
Jul 4, 2016, 4:24:03 AM7/4/16
to
On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 5:41:44 AM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> On 03/07/2016 04:03, Tim Bruening wrote:
> On 03/07/2016 04:03, Tim Bruening wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> Float Like A Butterfly
> >>
>
> >> Float Like A Butterfly
> >>
>
> >> The Doctor and his companions now realize are not in Kinshasa, Zaire but
> >> still in Cairo, Egypt, and not in 1974!
> >
> > Why hadn't the TARDIS told them where and when they were? After all, it was able to project a 3-D view of the TARDIS' surroundings!
> >
>
> As usual the Doctor didn't make full check and the TARDIS has a has a
> habit of materializing in the wrong places at the wrong time.
Would a full check have revealed that there was desert outside the city, and not the tropical rain forest that grows in Zaire?
> >> still in Cairo, Egypt, and not in 1974!
> >
> > Why hadn't the TARDIS told them where and when they were? After all, it was able to project a 3-D view of the TARDIS' surroundings!
> >
>
> As usual the Doctor didn't make full check and the TARDIS has a has a
> habit of materializing in the wrong places at the wrong time.
TB
Jul 4, 2016, 4:27:14 AM7/4/16
to
On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 2:18:13 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> On 03/07/2016 18:56, TB wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> Float Like A Butterfly
> >>
> > On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> >> Float Like A Butterfly
> >>
> >> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic
> >> Rumble in the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the
> >> Doctor says he was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
> >>
> >> Rumble in the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the
> >> Doctor says he was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
> >>
> >> The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view
> >> outside in the control room.
> >>
> >> outside in the control room.
> >>
> >> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
> >> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
> >> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it
> >> was the 1970s.
> >
> > Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads out of
> > modesty even in the early 21st century?
>
> Rani is a feminist and a Hindu.
What caste is she? (Hindus in India still care about caste, in spite of the Indian government's attempts to eliminate caste as a social factor).
> >> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
> >> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it
> >> was the 1970s.
> >
> > Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads out of
> > modesty even in the early 21st century?
>
> Rani is a feminist and a Hindu.
The Doctor
Jul 4, 2016, 10:59:45 AM7/4/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 4, 2016, 11:01:36 AM7/4/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 4, 2016, 11:10:10 AM7/4/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 4, 2016, 11:10:38 AM7/4/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 4, 2016, 11:11:39 AM7/4/16
to
In article <bc932378-7cc8-4144...@googlegroups.com>,
TB <tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>Do you have any plans for the Time Lady Rani (as opposed to the Companion Rani) to appear?
Pip and Jane Baker would haveto concur.
>Do you have any plans for the Time Lady Rani (as opposed to the Companion Rani) to appear?
The Doctor
Jul 4, 2016, 11:12:12 AM7/4/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 4, 2016, 11:13:14 AM7/4/16
to
In article <522acbc9-1fba-4b9f...@googlegroups.com>,
Venusian are giants acc the 3rd Doctor in the Time Monster.
The Doctor
Jul 4, 2016, 11:14:47 AM7/4/16
to
Agamemnon
Jul 4, 2016, 12:26:02 PM7/4/16
to
is. Besides which Earth time is different to Gallifreyan time and the
TARDIS works on Gallifreyan time. Do you know the exact conversion
factor and can you do the precise calculations in your head or just and
approximation?
Agamemnon
Jul 4, 2016, 12:36:08 PM7/4/16
to
interested in Earth time when they wrote the software.
>> TARDIS coordinates are like telephone numbers, 0181108055 etc. The
>> Doctor isn't going to notice if a few digits are out.
>
> How would TARDIS temporal and spacial coordinates work, what with
> relativistic frames of reference, and the expansion of the
> Universe?!
>
Doctor could calculate the rate at which it is expanding and work out
the time based on that, assuming he has the correct value for the
cosmological constant, assuming general relativity is still valid and
the Time Lords don't have a better approximation. Besides which we all
know how inaccurate GPS can be.
Agamemnon
Jul 4, 2016, 12:48:14 PM7/4/16
to
seen the river Nile.
Agamemnon
Jul 4, 2016, 12:48:54 PM7/4/16
to
On 04/07/2016 16:14, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <53cde4e7-bb12-4394...@googlegroups.com>,
> TB <tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 2:18:13 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>>> On 03/07/2016 18:56, TB wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>>>>
>>>>> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic
>>>>> Rumble in the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the
>>>>> Doctor says he was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>>>>>
>>>>> The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view
>>>>> outside in the control room.
>>>>>
>>>>> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
>>>>> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
>>>>> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it
>>>>> was the 1970s.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads out of
>>>> modesty even in the early 21st century?
>>>
>>> Rani is a feminist and a Hindu.
>>
>> What caste is she? (Hindus in India still care about caste, in spite of the Indian government's attempts to eliminate caste as a social factor).
>
> She is a Time lady, evil.
>
That's a different Rani
> In article <53cde4e7-bb12-4394...@googlegroups.com>,
> TB <tsbr...@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 2:18:13 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>>> On 03/07/2016 18:56, TB wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 4:00:51 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>>>>
>>>>> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic
>>>>> Rumble in the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the
>>>>> Doctor says he was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>>>>>
>>>>> The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view
>>>>> outside in the control room.
>>>>>
>>>>> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
>>>>> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
>>>>> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it
>>>>> was the 1970s.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't Rani know that Muslim women often cover their heads out of
>>>> modesty even in the early 21st century?
>>>
>>> Rani is a feminist and a Hindu.
>>
>> What caste is she? (Hindus in India still care about caste, in spite of the Indian government's attempts to eliminate caste as a social factor).
>
> She is a Time lady, evil.
>
Agamemnon
Jul 4, 2016, 12:50:02 PM7/4/16
to
Agamemnon
Jul 4, 2016, 12:50:24 PM7/4/16
to
On 04/07/2016 09:03, TB wrote:
> Do you have any plans for the Time Lady Rani (as opposed to the Companion Rani) to appear?
>
No.
> Do you have any plans for the Time Lady Rani (as opposed to the Companion Rani) to appear?
>
Agamemnon
Jul 4, 2016, 12:51:33 PM7/4/16
to
TB
Jul 4, 2016, 1:42:41 PM7/4/16
to
TB
Jul 4, 2016, 1:44:05 PM7/4/16
to
TB
Jul 4, 2016, 1:50:50 PM7/4/16
to
TB
Jul 4, 2016, 1:54:21 PM7/4/16
to
Agamemnon
Jul 4, 2016, 4:12:01 PM7/4/16
to
TARDIS said Earth, Africa, late second millennium, probably something
like 10101111 01111011 11000001 11000001 11000001 11100010 10101011
00000101 in binary and assumed that since it was the right planet,
continent and time zone he did not need to make a more accurate
conversion to obtain the meaning of next eight bytes of the code.
The Doctor
Jul 4, 2016, 4:18:39 PM7/4/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 4, 2016, 4:20:52 PM7/4/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 4, 2016, 4:21:33 PM7/4/16
to
TB
Jul 4, 2016, 7:42:18 PM7/4/16
to
Agamemnon
Jul 4, 2016, 9:37:47 PM7/4/16
to
The TARDIS was told to take them to see Muhammad Ali and that's what it
did. Except it was the wrong Muhammad Ali.
The Last Doctor
Jul 7, 2016, 4:48:07 AM7/7/16
to
Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> Float Like A Butterfly
>
> Float Like A Butterfly
>
> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic Rumble in
> the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
> was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
Why? Why would two twenty first century women want to go to see a boxing
> the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
> was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
match from 40 years earlier? Or a boxing match at all? Feels like a fake
set up without a good reason.
> The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view outside
> in the control room.
>
> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it was the
> 1970s.
indigenous religions. Even if all three occupants of the TARDIS are
ignorant of these geopolitical realities and assume that Zaire was somehow
a Muslim country, having them considering local dress habits "backward" is
not realistic - it's the writer being anti-PC for his own reasons, and that
would appear self evident to a viewer.
> The Doctor mentions it might be a good idea to cover up and ushers them
> to the TARDIS wardrobe. The girls enter the wardrobe and put on similar
> looking costumes as those worn by the people in the street, but refuse
> to cover their heads with a hijab.
>
Again, why? They are seasoned time travellers by now and well aware of
"when in Rome" manners. Again it smacks of the writer setting up deliberate
cultural conflict for his own reasons.
> They all step out of the TARDIS and find themselves in some kind of
> warehouse. They hear the crowds in the distance calling Ali, Ali. They
> exit the warehouse and follow the voices and arrive at a huge parade
> taking place through a broad avenue.
>
> An entourage bearing a litter passes through the street. The girls guess
> that this must be Muhammed Ali and move closer to the front of the crowd
> to get a better view, followed cautiously by the Doctor.
>
> Inside the litter they see a man covered in rich clothing. They can't
> see much of his face since he's waving to the crowd in the other
> direction. The Doctor asks someone in the crowd if this is Muhammed Ali
> and they say "yes, yes, this is indeed the great Muhammed Ali."
>
> Lara thinks it's some kind of publicity stunt put on for the media which
> is all part of the hype surrounding the fight and calls out to Ali to
> turn round. The odd thing though is that they can see no sign of
> photographers. Maybe they haven't got there yet. It's is the 70s after all.
The Doctor is generally aware of where he's actually wound up very quickly.
Having all three of them being unaware that this is all wrong by now is an
idiot plot.
>
> The girls are noticed by one of Ali's entourage who asks then if they
> want to meet Ali and dance for him at a celebration. They accept.
Again, why? Are they dancers? Do they hero worship Ali?
> As they journey to Ali's residence the Doctor notices that there is
> something strange about their surroundings. Nothing modern is visible,
> no TV aerials, public telephones or cars on the roads, only horses and
> carriages. The girls put it down to Zaire being backwards and the
> streets being cleared for the publicity stunt. The Doctor thinks he's
> been here before and very recently.
Idiot plot again. That they don't know this isn't 1970s Zaire from almost
the second they land isn't credible.
What follows in this first half is a long semi historical farce and could
be fun but it's a bit forced and focuses on sexualising the companions over
an extended period, so not very Doctor Who. After that (and throughout the
second half you just posted) it's just a long travelogue through a minor
piece of early 19th century history.
The coincidence of Alis that allows the setup to develop is a bit of a
stretch, but fair enough: however the period of history you've chosen to
use is very insignificant so all the detail feels rather dull - this story
might be better developed for a single episode with much of this cut out.
Provided you can think of a more credible set up.
The coda is pointless, sorry. Its advertising, no one really wants to know
about the George Foreman grill, and in any case as a mains powered
electrical appliance, who'd take it to a barbecue?
--
"I am and always will be the optimist.
The hoper of far-flung hopes and the dreamer of improbable dreams."
Agamemnon
Jul 7, 2016, 6:56:16 AM7/7/16
to
On 07/07/2016 09:48, The Last Doctor wrote:
> Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>
>> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic Rumble in
>> the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
>> was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>
> Why? Why would two twenty first century women want to go to see a boxing
> match from 40 years earlier? Or a boxing match at all? Feels like a fake
> set up without a good reason.
This was arguably the greatest boxing match of all time and Ali one of
> Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>
>> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic Rumble in
>> the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
>> was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>
> Why? Why would two twenty first century women want to go to see a boxing
> match from 40 years earlier? Or a boxing match at all? Feels like a fake
> set up without a good reason.
the greatest sporting and cultural icons. With Ali having recently
passed away and before that suffering from Parkinson's it would be great
for people to go back in time and see him in his prime.
>
>> The TARDIS lands and the Doctor projects a 3D image of the view outside
>> in the control room.
>>
>> The occupants see people in the streets wearing what look like
>> traditional costumes and head coverings. Rani remarks that it's so
>> backward of the people of Zaire to cover their heads even if it was the
>> 1970s.
>
> Nonsense. The Congo is over 85% Christian and most of the rest follow
> indigenous religions. Even if all three occupants of the TARDIS are
> ignorant of these geopolitical realities and assume that Zaire was somehow
> a Muslim country, having them considering local dress habits "backward" is
> not realistic - it's the writer being anti-PC for his own reasons, and that
> would appear self evident to a viewer.
Christians in the Balkans, Greece and Russia wear similar coverings as
well. Back in the 1970s head scarves were extremely fashionable in the
Christian West and even the queen and princess Anne are pictured wearing
them. This was the culture which prompted the writers of Doctor Who to
provide the 4th Doctor with his extremely long scarf.
The the trouble with the PC loonies is that you can never win with them.
If a woman is forced to cover up her sexuality with a head covering it's
a bad thing. If you criticise a woman for coving her head its also a bad
thing. You can never win with these loons so I've had enough of it. This
is not a PC story and it was never going to be. It belongs in the real
world and features real history and real people with real views and
opinions.
>
>> The Doctor mentions it might be a good idea to cover up and ushers them
>> to the TARDIS wardrobe. The girls enter the wardrobe and put on similar
>> looking costumes as those worn by the people in the street, but refuse
>> to cover their heads with a hijab.
>>
>
> Again, why? They are seasoned time travellers by now and well aware of
> "when in Rome" manners. Again it smacks of the writer setting up deliberate
> cultural conflict for his own reasons.
is extreme sunlight, women normally cover up their faces and heads to
protect them from the sun. Women that don't cover up are perceived as
whores who are soliciting for sex. Also in these countries and also the
Balkans, Greece and Russia, if you are a widow you are expected to show
that by dressing in black and covering your head, and are not expected
to sleep with anyone else ever again, as can be seen the the classic
film Zorba the Greek.
For these reasons Lara and Rani are mistaken as courtesans and invited
to dance for Ali and Ibrahim, as is made clear by Ibrahim's statement in
part 2.
You are just showing your ignorance and prejudice and lack of
understanding of other peoples' cultures.
>
>> They all step out of the TARDIS and find themselves in some kind of
>> warehouse. They hear the crowds in the distance calling Ali, Ali. They
>> exit the warehouse and follow the voices and arrive at a huge parade
>> taking place through a broad avenue.
>>
>> An entourage bearing a litter passes through the street. The girls guess
>> that this must be Muhammed Ali and move closer to the front of the crowd
>> to get a better view, followed cautiously by the Doctor.
>
>>
>> Inside the litter they see a man covered in rich clothing. They can't
>> see much of his face since he's waving to the crowd in the other
>> direction. The Doctor asks someone in the crowd if this is Muhammed Ali
>> and they say "yes, yes, this is indeed the great Muhammed Ali."
>>
>> Lara thinks it's some kind of publicity stunt put on for the media which
>> is all part of the hype surrounding the fight and calls out to Ali to
>> turn round. The odd thing though is that they can see no sign of
>> photographers. Maybe they haven't got there yet. It's is the 70s after all.
>
> The Doctor is generally aware of where he's actually wound up very quickly.
> Having all three of them being unaware that this is all wrong by now is an
> idiot plot.
being the Doctor he wants to explore while he's there. It's the same
situation throughout the classic series when the TARDIS lands in the
wrong place and time.
>
>>
>> The girls are noticed by one of Ali's entourage who asks then if they
>> want to meet Ali and dance for him at a celebration. They accept.
>
> Again, why? Are they dancers? Do they hero worship Ali?
because their heads and faces are uncovered.
>
>> As they journey to Ali's residence the Doctor notices that there is
>> something strange about their surroundings. Nothing modern is visible,
>> no TV aerials, public telephones or cars on the roads, only horses and
>> carriages. The girls put it down to Zaire being backwards and the
>> streets being cleared for the publicity stunt. The Doctor thinks he's
>> been here before and very recently.
>
> Idiot plot again. That they don't know this isn't 1970s Zaire from almost
> the second they land isn't credible.
about the place immediately, but being seasoned space and time
travellers they want to explore.
>
> What follows in this first half is a long semi historical farce and could
> be fun but it's a bit forced and focuses on sexualising the companions over
> an extended period, so not very Doctor Who. After that (and throughout the
> second half you just posted) it's just a long travelogue through a minor
> piece of early 19th century history.
first ever steam powered warship in battle and the last ever great sea
battle between wooden sailing ships. These are not exactly minor events
and both Muhammad Ali and Ibrahim Pasha are considered the greatest
figures in modern Egyptian history. You just show your prejudice and
cultural ignorance again.
>
> The coincidence of Alis that allows the setup to develop is a bit of a
> stretch, but fair enough: however the period of history you've chosen to
> use is very insignificant so all the detail feels rather dull - this story
> might be better developed for a single episode with much of this cut out.
> Provided you can think of a more credible set up.
a 5 episode mini-series in this, which could be stretched even further
still in the same manner as The Musketeers.
>
> The coda is pointless, sorry. Its advertising, no one really wants to know
> about the George Foreman grill, and in any case as a mains powered
> electrical appliance, who'd take it to a barbecue?
>
are generators available at the site also, just like there are at a
county festival.
The Last Doctor
Jul 7, 2016, 2:17:23 PM7/7/16
to
Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> On 07/07/2016 09:48, The Last Doctor wrote:
>> Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>>
>>> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic Rumble in
>>> the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
>>> was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>>
>> Why? Why would two twenty first century women want to go to see a boxing
>> match from 40 years earlier? Or a boxing match at all? Feels like a fake
>> set up without a good reason.
>
> This was arguably the greatest boxing match of all time and Ali one of
> the greatest sporting and cultural icons. With Ali having recently
> passed away and before that suffering from Parkinson's it would be great
> for people to go back in time and see him in his prime.
>
If they cared. If they remembered.You clearly do. I remember, but I don't
> On 07/07/2016 09:48, The Last Doctor wrote:
>> Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>>
>>> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic Rumble in
>>> the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
>>> was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>>
>> Why? Why would two twenty first century women want to go to see a boxing
>> match from 40 years earlier? Or a boxing match at all? Feels like a fake
>> set up without a good reason.
>
> This was arguably the greatest boxing match of all time and Ali one of
> the greatest sporting and cultural icons. With Ali having recently
> passed away and before that suffering from Parkinson's it would be great
> for people to go back in time and see him in his prime.
>
care. I don't believe many millennials (or those from 10 years earlier)
will care either, particularly girls. And I certainly don't think much of
the target audience will care. But, since that's not really the focus of
this story anyway, I just think you'd need a big set up to make this
credible.
[snip]
> You can never win with these loons so I've had enough of it. This
> is not a PC story and it was never going to be. It belongs in the real
> world and features real history and real people with real views and
> opinions.
multicultural British DO very much think in terms you think of as "PC" and
they think of as "natural". As I said before, it feels like you're pushing
an anti-"PC" agenda and these aren't the characters to do it with. Your
recidivist, anti Muslim views aren't the rap views and opinions of today's
British youth.
[snip]
>>
>> The coincidence of Alis that allows the setup to develop is a bit of a
>> stretch, but fair enough: however the period of history you've chosen to
>> use is very insignificant so all the detail feels rather dull - this story
>> might be better developed for a single episode with much of this cut out.
>> Provided you can think of a more credible set up.
>
> I was thinking the exact opposite. There's enough material for at least
> a 5 episode mini-series in this, which could be stretched even further
> still in the same manner as The Musketeers.
from the rich strata of Mediterranean and Middle Eastern history in
Georgian and Victorian times. But that's not what Doctor Who is about, so
it's a bad fit.
>>
>> The coda is pointless, sorry. Its advertising, no one really wants to know
>> about the George Foreman grill, and in any case as a mains powered
>> electrical appliance, who'd take it to a barbecue?
>>
>
> They've taken a car battery powered mains inverter with them and there
> are generators available at the site also, just like there are at a
> county festival.
>
Glastonbury. Car batteries are heavy and full of acid - not a fun thing to
take to a boxing match!
Agamemnon
Jul 7, 2016, 4:10:53 PM7/7/16
to
insular and prejudiced people in Britain are those from the Middle East
and the second most racist are those from Asia. That is a FACT! The
least racist people are those from Europe and other western democracies.
The PC loonies don't like this fact so they try to silence people who
speak out the truth and people have now had enough of it and it largely
contributed to the result of the Brexit referendum.
>As I said before, it feels like you're pushing
> an anti-"PC" agenda and these aren't the characters to do it with. Your
> recidivist, anti Muslim views aren't the rap views and opinions of today's
> British youth.
was based on historical facts which are even written and condoned in
they Koran itself including hostage taking and selling women as sex salves.
These practices and other practices demeaning to women are being carried
out to this day by ISIS using the Koran as justification.
Like it or not the views of British youth and American youth coincide
more closely to those of Donald Trump than those of the PC loonies who
want to pretend everything is all sweetness and light and brush
everything contrary to their intolerant and revisionist views under the
carpet.
>
> [snip]
>
>>>
>>> The coincidence of Alis that allows the setup to develop is a bit of a
>>> stretch, but fair enough: however the period of history you've chosen to
>>> use is very insignificant so all the detail feels rather dull - this story
>>> might be better developed for a single episode with much of this cut out.
>>> Provided you can think of a more credible set up.
>>
>> I was thinking the exact opposite. There's enough material for at least
>> a 5 episode mini-series in this, which could be stretched even further
>> still in the same manner as The Musketeers.
>
> In a sense, I agree. There is an excellent historical series to be made
> from the rich strata of Mediterranean and Middle Eastern history in
> Georgian and Victorian times. But that's not what Doctor Who is about, so
> it's a bad fit.
Doctor. Doctor Who was created to educate people about history though
the Doctor taking part in historical events. One of the models I used
for this story was the First Doctor story The Crusade. Also I have
written Series 11 as an allegory to Islamic State terrorism and the
undemocratic nature of the European Union which I have tried to depict
in the style of Edgar Rice Burroughs' Barsoom series.
>
>>>
>>> The coda is pointless, sorry. Its advertising, no one really wants to know
>>> about the George Foreman grill, and in any case as a mains powered
>>> electrical appliance, who'd take it to a barbecue?
>>>
>>
>> They've taken a car battery powered mains inverter with them and there
>> are generators available at the site also, just like there are at a
>> county festival.
>>
> The punters don't carry much of that sort of stuff, even today in
> Glastonbury. Car batteries are heavy and full of acid - not a fun thing to
> take to a boxing match!
connect crocodile cables to it or you take a generator with you to power
your PA system or anything else.
The whole idea was to give the impression that the Doctor gave George
Foreman the original idea for naming a gill after himself.
Tim Bruening
Jul 7, 2016, 4:23:03 PM7/7/16
to
On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 3:56:16 AM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
> On 07/07/2016 09:48, The Last Doctor wrote:
> > Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> >> Float Like A Butterfly
> >>
> >> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic Rumble in
> >> the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
> >> was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
> >
> > Why? Why would two twenty first century women want to go to see a boxing
> > match from 40 years earlier? Or a boxing match at all? Feels like a fake
> > set up without a good reason.
>
> This was arguably the greatest boxing match of all time and Ali one of
> the greatest sporting and cultural icons. With Ali having recently
> passed away and before that suffering from Parkinson's it would be great
> for people to go back in time and see him in his prime.
Did Lara and Rani read about Ali's death in the newspaper at the start of this episode?
> On 07/07/2016 09:48, The Last Doctor wrote:
> > Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> >> Float Like A Butterfly
> >>
> >> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic Rumble in
> >> the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman (the Doctor says he
> >> was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
> >
> > Why? Why would two twenty first century women want to go to see a boxing
> > match from 40 years earlier? Or a boxing match at all? Feels like a fake
> > set up without a good reason.
>
> This was arguably the greatest boxing match of all time and Ali one of
> the greatest sporting and cultural icons. With Ali having recently
> passed away and before that suffering from Parkinson's it would be great
> for people to go back in time and see him in his prime.
> >
> > The Doctor is generally aware of where he's actually wound up very quickly.
> > Having all three of them being unaware that this is all wrong by now is an
> > idiot plot.
>
> The Doctor is probably aware he is in the wrong place from the start but
> being the Doctor he wants to explore while he's there. It's the same
> situation throughout the classic series when the TARDIS lands in the
> wrong place and time.
> >
> > Idiot plot again. That they don't know this isn't 1970s Zaire from almost
> > the second they land isn't credible.
>
> I've already indicated above that they notice there is something odd
> about the place immediately, but being seasoned space and time
> travellers they want to explore.
The Doctor
Jul 7, 2016, 5:51:13 PM7/7/16
to
The Last Doctor
Jul 7, 2016, 5:54:33 PM7/7/16
to
Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> On 07/07/2016 19:17, The Last Doctor wrote:
>
>> But your view on your companions' reasoning doesn't ring true. The young,
>> multicultural British DO very much think in terms you think of as "PC" and
>> they think of as "natural".
>
> That's a load of nonsense. According to statistics the most racist,
> insular and prejudiced people in Britain are those from the Middle East
> and the second most racist are those from Asia. That is a FACT! The
> least racist people are those from Europe and other western democracies.
Apart from those of Greek descent, apparently.
> On 07/07/2016 19:17, The Last Doctor wrote:
>
>> But your view on your companions' reasoning doesn't ring true. The young,
>> multicultural British DO very much think in terms you think of as "PC" and
>> they think of as "natural".
>
> That's a load of nonsense. According to statistics the most racist,
> insular and prejudiced people in Britain are those from the Middle East
> and the second most racist are those from Asia. That is a FACT! The
> least racist people are those from Europe and other western democracies.
Whose statistics? What studies, by what institution? Putting the word FACT
in capitals doesn't make something true. Nor does it make it a lie - but
you're just claiming Truth without quoting a source, so it's impossible to
judge how credible your beliefs are.
> The PC loonies don't like this fact so they try to silence people who
> speak out the truth
and their ilk. Calling people you disagree with "loonies" and speaking out
the "truth". Did you get a vote in the referendum?
and people have now had enough of it and it largely
> contributed to the result of the Brexit referendum.
>
>> As I said before, it feels like you're pushing
>> an anti-"PC" agenda and these aren't the characters to do it with. Your
>> recidivist, anti Muslim views aren't the rap views and opinions of today's
>> British youth.
>
> Wrong. There is nothing anti-Muslim in anything I wrote since everything
> was based on historical facts which are even written and condoned in
> they Koran itself including hostage taking and selling women as sex salves.
>
not to be anti Islamic while using the Koran as an excuse for your
fantasies?
> These practices and other practices demeaning to women are being carried
> out to this day by ISIS using the Koran as justification.
religion instead of just condemning them as murderous gangsters, you are
pandering to their insidious methods of radicalisation.
> Like it or not the views of British youth and American youth coincide
> more closely to those of Donald Trump
multiculturalism because of their racism, while the vast majority of
elderly and much more white people voted OUT because of their greater
tolerance and support of immigrants. Thanks for explaining, for some reason
I assumed those voting patterns meant the opposite was truer.
than those of the PC loonies who
> want to pretend everything is all sweetness and light and brush
> everything contrary to their intolerant and revisionist views under the
> carpet.
think it means.
Not to mention, I have no idea how Muslim Muhammad Ali was. He was the
Ottoman governor and declared a Khedivate - but he was an Albanian iirc,
not even a Turk.
>>>> The coincidence of Alis that allows the setup to develop is a bit of a
>>>> stretch, but fair enough: however the period of history you've chosen to
>>>> use is very insignificant so all the detail feels rather dull - this story
>>>> might be better developed for a single episode with much of this cut out.
>>>> Provided you can think of a more credible set up.
>>>
>>> I was thinking the exact opposite. There's enough material for at least
>>> a 5 episode mini-series in this, which could be stretched even further
>>> still in the same manner as The Musketeers.
>>
>> In a sense, I agree. There is an excellent historical series to be made
>> from the rich strata of Mediterranean and Middle Eastern history in
>> Georgian and Victorian times. But that's not what Doctor Who is about, so
>> it's a bad fit.
>
> It was exactly what Doctor Who was all about in the time of the First
> Doctor. Doctor Who was created to educate people about history though
> the Doctor taking part in historical events. One of the models I used
> for this story was the First Doctor story The Crusade.
in 45 minutes. I have no objection to historicals. I wish modern Dr Who
would do some. But to devote several episodes to one piece of obscure
history as you seem to want to, is not the way Dr Who should go in my
opinion.
Also I have
> written Series 11 as an allegory to Islamic State terrorism and the
> undemocratic nature of the European Union which I have tried to depict
> in the style of Edgar Rice Burroughs' Barsoom series.
iIslamic terrorism and your loathing of Europe, you have been 1000%
successful. Far too much thinly veiled allegory, far too little SF, is my
view on what these storylines represent.
Change the record, Ag. This one's scratched.
>
>>
>>>>
>>>> The coda is pointless, sorry. Its advertising, no one really wants to know
>>>> about the George Foreman grill, and in any case as a mains powered
>>>> electrical appliance, who'd take it to a barbecue?
>>>>
>>>
>>> They've taken a car battery powered mains inverter with them and there
>>> are generators available at the site also, just like there are at a
>>> county festival.
>>>
>> The punters don't carry much of that sort of stuff, even today in
>> Glastonbury. Car batteries are heavy and full of acid - not a fun thing to
>> take to a boxing match!
>
> It comes with you in your car engine compartment. You open it up and
> connect crocodile cables to it or you take a generator with you to power
> your PA system or anything else.
>
system?
> The whole idea was to give the impression that the Doctor gave George
> Foreman the original idea for naming a gill after himself.
>
The Last Doctor
Jul 7, 2016, 5:58:12 PM7/7/16
to
The Doctor
Jul 7, 2016, 6:06:57 PM7/7/16
to
In article <du81jh...@mid.individual.net>,
Your turn to do a script Mike!
>--
>"I am and always will be the optimist.
>The hoper of far-flung hopes and the dreamer of improbable dreams."
>--
>"I am and always will be the optimist.
>The hoper of far-flung hopes and the dreamer of improbable dreams."
The Last Doctor
Jul 7, 2016, 6:26:10 PM7/7/16
to
one historical, iirc). This run represents Ag's choices. I have no desire
to interrupt his flow.
Maybe I'll even like one of them, but he'd have to put aside his hobby
horses and find a new story to tell for me to do so. If he just does
another Islamic terrorism allegory or presents another slice of "Greek
history told from an embittered Greek perspective" I'll just be bored
again.
However, just as a side note, if I'd considered a pair of episodes with
these titles I'd have called them "Sting Like A Butterfly" and "Float like
a Bee" and they would not have involved boxing nor Islam, but would
probably have involved the Menoptera getting unwillingly embroiled in a war
in space with evolved Zarbi.
Agamemnon
Jul 7, 2016, 7:06:40 PM7/7/16
to
On 07/07/2016 22:54, The Last Doctor wrote:
> Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>> On 07/07/2016 19:17, The Last Doctor wrote:
>>
>>> But your view on your companions' reasoning doesn't ring true.
>>> The young, multicultural British DO very much think in terms you
>>> think of as "PC" and they think of as "natural".
>>
>> That's a load of nonsense. According to statistics the most racist,
>> insular and prejudiced people in Britain are those from the Middle
>> East and the second most racist are those from Asia. That is a
>> FACT! The least racist people are those from Europe and other
>> western democracies.
>
> Apart from those of Greek descent, apparently.
Stop making up fake statements which are deliberately racist.
> Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>> On 07/07/2016 19:17, The Last Doctor wrote:
>>
>>> But your view on your companions' reasoning doesn't ring true.
>>> The young, multicultural British DO very much think in terms you
>>> think of as "PC" and they think of as "natural".
>>
>> That's a load of nonsense. According to statistics the most racist,
>> insular and prejudiced people in Britain are those from the Middle
>> East and the second most racist are those from Asia. That is a
>> FACT! The least racist people are those from Europe and other
>> western democracies.
>
> Apart from those of Greek descent, apparently.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325502/Map-shows-worlds-racist-countries-answers-surprise-you.html
THE LEAST RACIALLY TOLERANT COUNTRIES
40% + (of individuals surveyed would not want a person of another race
as a neighbour)
India, Jordan
30 - 39.9%
Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Vietnam, Indonesia, South Korea
20 - 39.9%
France, Turkey, Bulgaria, Algeria, Morocco, Mali, Zambia, Thailand,
Malaysia, The Philippines, Bangladesh, Hong Kong
THE MOST TOLERANT COUNTRIES
0 to 4.9%
United States, Canada, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Guatemala, Britain,
Sweden, Norway, Latvia, Australia, New Zealand
5 - 9.9%
Chile, Peru, Mexico, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Belarus, Croatia, Japan,
Pakistan, South Africa
10 - 14.9%Finland, Poland, Ukraine, Italy, Greece, Czech Republic, Slovakia
15 - 19.9% Venezuela, Hungary, Serbia, Romania, FYR Macedonia, Ethiopia,
Uganda, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Russia, China
Source: World Values Survey
>
> Whose statistics? What studies, by what institution? Putting the word
> FACT in capitals doesn't make something true. Nor does it make it a
> lie - but you're just claiming Truth without quoting a source, so
> it's impossible to judge how credible your beliefs are.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325502/Map-shows-worlds-racist-countries-answers-surprise-you.html
>
>> The PC loonies don't like this fact so they try to silence people
>> who speak out the truth
>
> You sound like Britain First, UKIP, Marine Le Pen, Nikolaos
> Michaloliakos and their ilk. Calling people you disagree with
> "loonies" and speaking out the "truth". Did you get a vote in the
> referendum?
said there were too many Somalis living there and they're not even
Europeans. Thanks to the PC loonies the likes of UKIP, Marine Le Pen,
Nikolaos Michaloliakos and their ilk were allowed to win.
>
> and people have now had enough of it and it largely
>> contributed to the result of the Brexit referendum.
>>
>>> As I said before, it feels like you're pushing an anti-"PC"
>>> agenda and these aren't the characters to do it with. Your
>>> recidivist, anti Muslim views aren't the rap views and opinions
>>> of today's British youth.
>>
>> Wrong. There is nothing anti-Muslim in anything I wrote since
>> everything was based on historical facts which are even written and
>> condoned in they Koran itself including hostage taking and selling
>> women as sex salves.
>>
>
> Slavery is condoned in the Bible too. Do you know how absurd it is to
> claim not to be anti Islamic while using the Koran as an excuse for
> your fantasies?
Bible condone hostage taking and holding rich merchants for ransom while
killing the ones whose families can't afford to pay the ransom and
selling the women as sex slaves, practices which are all condoned in the
Koran and practices by Islamic State?
Unlike you I've actually read the Koran and tell it like it is. It reads
like parts of the Iliad where exactly the same practices of taking
hostages for ransom and distributing women as sex salves were carried
out 2000 years earlier and both books were probably major influences for
Edgar Rice Burroughs' Martian societies in his Barsoom series.
>
>> These practices and other practices demeaning to women are being
>> carried out to this day by ISIS using the Koran as justification.
>
> Da'esh is not all of Islam. By demonising them and focusing on their
> religion instead of just condemning them as murderous gangsters, you
> are pandering to their insidious methods of radicalisation.
fact that the same crimes against humanity carried out by ISIS were also
carried out by the Ottomans against their Christian subjects including
mass executions of priests, burning down of churches and entire villages
and their populations to death, the whole sale massacre of populations
of entire islands in the tens to hundreds of thousands, and death
marchers, the selling of captive women as sex slaves, mass torture and
mass genocide all because of their religion. Those are the realities.
The Turks' burning of the Greek city of Smyrna and the massacre of it's
Christian population by driving those who didn't burn into the sea was
identical to the ending of Edgar Rice Burroughs' The Moon Maid (that is
book 1 of the series) which was publish after that event.
>
>> Like it or not the views of British youth and American youth
>> coincide more closely to those of Donald Trump
>
> Ah. So 75% of British under 25s voted to stay IN Europe and support
> multiculturalism because of their racism, while the vast majority of
> elderly and much more white people voted OUT because of their
> greater tolerance and support of immigrants. Thanks for explaining,
> for some reason I assumed those voting patterns meant the opposite
> was truer.
migrants from places like Syria. In that respect they agree with Donald
Trump.
Unless people and the leaders of these intolerant countries from the
Middle East and Asia are named and shamed and made aware of their
intolerance and disrespect for other peoples and their history of abuse
and crimes against humanity then they will never cease and they will
keep on denying.
The PC loonies are nothing more than apologists for war criminals,
genocide deniers, religious fundamentalists and racists.
>
> than those of the PC loonies who
>> want to pretend everything is all sweetness and light and brush
>> everything contrary to their intolerant and revisionist views under
>> the carpet.
>
> Intolerant. You keep using this word. I do not think it means what
> you think it means.
>
> Not to mention, I have no idea how Muslim Muhammad Ali was. He was
> the Ottoman governor and declared a Khedivate - but he was an
> Albanian iirc, not even a Turk.
my plot in any case, end of story.
Only Muslims were allowed to hold positions of power in the Ottoman
Empire. Christians were treated as second class citizens.
>
>>>>> The coincidence of Alis that allows the setup to develop is a
>>>>> bit of a stretch, but fair enough: however the period of
>>>>> history you've chosen to use is very insignificant so all the
>>>>> detail feels rather dull - this story might be better
>>>>> developed for a single episode with much of this cut out.
>>>>> Provided you can think of a more credible set up.
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking the exact opposite. There's enough material for
>>>> at least a 5 episode mini-series in this, which could be
>>>> stretched even further still in the same manner as The
>>>> Musketeers.
>>>
>>> In a sense, I agree. There is an excellent historical series to
>>> be made from the rich strata of Mediterranean and Middle Eastern
>>> history in Georgian and Victorian times. But that's not what
>>> Doctor Who is about, so it's a bad fit.
>>
>> It was exactly what Doctor Who was all about in the time of the
>> First Doctor. Doctor Who was created to educate people about
>> history though the Doctor taking part in historical events. One of
>> the models I used for this story was the First Doctor story The
>> Crusade.
>
> Which, if it had been written for today's TV audience, would have
> been over in 45 minutes. I have no objection to historicals. I wish
> modern Dr Who would do some. But to devote several episodes to one
> piece of obscure history as you seem to want to, is not the way Dr
> Who should go in my opinion.
back and that's why I decided to have a go a writing one.
The fact that you keep wrongly claiming that this history is obscure is
one of the best reasons for making it the subject of a Doctor Who
adventure. It could have also been done as part of The Indiana Jones
Chronicles series, another of my influences, but that all occurs 100
years later.
>
> Also I have
>> written Series 11 as an allegory to Islamic State terrorism and the
>> undemocratic nature of the European Union which I have tried to
>> depict in the style of Edgar Rice Burroughs' Barsoom series.
>
> Well you have failed in the last aim, though in banging on endlessly
> about iIslamic terrorism and your loathing of Europe, you have been
> 1000% successful. Far too much thinly veiled allegory, far too little
> SF, is my view on what these storylines represent.
>
> Change the record, Ag. This one's scratched.
>
the Raven, but his stories were filled with the same PC lunacy that
caused the problems he was depicting to occur in the first place. I have
dealt with the issues and come up with better solutions.
I've still not finished with the European Union yet. There's enough
material for another story but I'm waiting to see how things turn out
for the moment.
As for far too little science fiction, that is a good thing. People
don't want to watch discussions about the laws of physics or how
technology works. I've leaned towards action, adventure and romance
which is what all good stories have in common.
>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The coda is pointless, sorry. Its advertising, no one really
>>>>> wants to know about the George Foreman grill, and in any case
>>>>> as a mains powered electrical appliance, who'd take it to a
>>>>> barbecue?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They've taken a car battery powered mains inverter with them
>>>> and there are generators available at the site also, just like
>>>> there are at a county festival.
>>>>
>>> The punters don't carry much of that sort of stuff, even today
>>> in Glastonbury. Car batteries are heavy and full of acid - not a
>>> fun thing to take to a boxing match!
>>
>> It comes with you in your car engine compartment. You open it up
>> and connect crocodile cables to it or you take a generator with you
>> to power your PA system or anything else.
>>
>
> The Doctor and his companions took their car to the boxing match? And
> a PA system?
sites outside the arena.
>
>> The whole idea was to give the impression that the Doctor gave
>> George Foreman the original idea for naming a gill after himself.
>>
>
> Yawn.
>
Agamemnon
Jul 7, 2016, 7:19:18 PM7/7/16
to
On 07/07/2016 21:23, Tim Bruening wrote:
> On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 3:56:16 AM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>> On 07/07/2016 09:48, The Last Doctor wrote:
>>> Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>>>
>>>> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic
>>>> Rumble in the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman
>>>> (the Doctor says he was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>>>
>>> Why? Why would two twenty first century women want to go to see a
>>> boxing match from 40 years earlier? Or a boxing match at all?
>>> Feels like a fake set up without a good reason.
>>
>> This was arguably the greatest boxing match of all time and Ali one
>> of the greatest sporting and cultural icons. With Ali having
>> recently passed away and before that suffering from Parkinson's it
>> would be great for people to go back in time and see him in his
>> prime.
>
> Did Lara and Rani read about Ali's death in the newspaper at the
> start of this episode?
>
The probably read about it on the Internet or say it reported on TV like
> On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 3:56:16 AM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>> On 07/07/2016 09:48, The Last Doctor wrote:
>>> Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>> Float Like A Butterfly
>>>>
>>>> Lara and Rani ask the Doctor to take them to see the historic
>>>> Rumble in the Jungle where Muhammed Ali fought George Foreman
>>>> (the Doctor says he was a Foreman once) in Zaire.
>>>
>>> Why? Why would two twenty first century women want to go to see a
>>> boxing match from 40 years earlier? Or a boxing match at all?
>>> Feels like a fake set up without a good reason.
>>
>> This was arguably the greatest boxing match of all time and Ali one
>> of the greatest sporting and cultural icons. With Ali having
>> recently passed away and before that suffering from Parkinson's it
>> would be great for people to go back in time and see him in his
>> prime.
>
> Did Lara and Rani read about Ali's death in the newspaper at the
> start of this episode?
>
most other people.
>
>>>
>>> The Doctor is generally aware of where he's actually wound up
>>> very quickly. Having all three of them being unaware that this is
>>> all wrong by now is an idiot plot.
>>
>> The Doctor is probably aware he is in the wrong place from the
>> start but being the Doctor he wants to explore while he's there.
>> It's the same situation throughout the classic series when the
>> TARDIS lands in the wrong place and time.
>
> However, Aggy gave the distinct impression that the Doctor et al
> didn't realize that they were in the wrong time and place until
> several hours into their stay.
>
include children would would take some time to catch on. The Doctor,
Lara and Rani pointed out that there were cars, tv aerials and other
modern street adornments missing.
RANI
Doctor are you sure this is Zaire in 1974?
CLARA
It looks much earlier.
THE DOCTOR
Come on, lets look around, and if we don't see Muhammad Ali we can all
go back to the TARDIS.
>>>
>>> Idiot plot again. That they don't know this isn't 1970s Zaire
>>> from almost the second they land isn't credible.
>>
>> I've already indicated above that they notice there is something
>> odd about the place immediately, but being seasoned space and time
>> travellers they want to explore.
>
> I thought that Lara's and Rani's goals were to see a boxing match in
> 1974 Zaire, not explore 1820s Egypt! Therefore, the moment they
the Doctor realise he was in Cardiff on Christmas Day in 1869 before he
left the TARDIS?
> realized that something was wrong, they should have demanded that
> they return to the TARDIS to do a double check!
>
Dickens came past them in a coach, much like Muhammad Ali coming past
the Doctor, Lara and Rani in a litter.
The Doctor
Jul 7, 2016, 8:34:28 PM7/7/16
to
Pudentame
Jul 7, 2016, 9:08:43 PM7/7/16
to
On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 13:23:01 -0700 (PDT), Tim Bruening
<tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>However, Aggy gave the distinct impression that the Doctor et al didn't realize
>that they were in the wrong time and place until several hours into
>their stay.
>
That plot device has been used more than once.
<tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>However, Aggy gave the distinct impression that the Doctor et al didn't realize
>that they were in the wrong time and place until several hours into
>their stay.
>
TB
Jul 7, 2016, 9:42:33 PM7/7/16
to
On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 4:19:18 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
>
> Rose's goal in The Unquiet Dead was to see Naples in 1860. Why didn't
> the Doctor realise he was in Cardiff on Christmas Day in 1869 before he
> left the TARDIS?
For The Unquiet Dead, I suppose I should ask why the Doctor didn't check the date with the TARDIS' chronometer/scanner/what ever he calls his method of checking the outside before leaving the safety of the TARDIS before disembarking!
>
> Rose's goal in The Unquiet Dead was to see Naples in 1860. Why didn't
> the Doctor realise he was in Cardiff on Christmas Day in 1869 before he
> left the TARDIS?
I imagine that there would be very little visial difference between 1860 Naples and 1869 Cardiff!
Agamemnon
Jul 7, 2016, 9:55:34 PM7/7/16
to
famous for it's snow during the summer.
TB
Jul 7, 2016, 9:57:33 PM7/7/16
to
I hadn't know that there were steam powered warships as early as 1827! How shall we celebrate the steam warship bicentennial in 11 years?
TB
Jul 7, 2016, 9:58:47 PM7/7/16
to
TB
Jul 7, 2016, 10:00:14 PM7/7/16
to
On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 6:55:34 PM UTC-7, Agamemnon wrote:
Agamemnon
Jul 7, 2016, 11:10:39 PM7/7/16
to
What about when the Doctor took Rose to Las Vegas to see Elvis Presley
but they ended up in Alexandra Palace in North London?
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