Marvel's mutants/superheroes and Julian May's metapsychics
The Animus
The Animus <s33...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>Following on from recent discusions about Onslaught and Julian May's
>books, I thought I would post up some conclusions, pointless as they may
>be, about the various mutant/superpowers, and how they relate to the
>powers of Julian May's metapsychics :)
>
>Firstly, for those who arent familiar with Julian May, some info:
>The books I will refer to in here are: The Saga of the Exiles, comprising
>the Many-coloured land, The Golden Torc, The Non-born King, and The
>Adversary; and what i refer to as the Galactic Milieu Quartet, comprising
>of Interventionand the Galactic Milieu trilogy, which in turn comprises
>Jack the Bodiless, Diamond Mask, and Magnificat. (I call it the Quartet
>for the sake of convenience) The Saga should be read before the Quartet,
>too.
>
>In Julian May's books, all mutant are psionics, or as she calls them,
>metapsychics. and the range of psionic talent is broken up in to these
>groups:
>
>The Farsensory faculty- This encompases farspeech, the act of speaking
>telepathicly over long distances, and farsight, telepathicly seeing
>things over long distances. Basicly, any mental extention of the pyhsical
>senses is classified as a farsensory talent.
>
>The Psychokinetic faculty- or PK. we all know what this is- moving thins
>with your mind. considered a rather declasse talent by metapsychics of
>the Milieu, and generaly not used much.
>
>The Redactive faculty- Basicly mental healing of ailments in the mind AND
>body. can also be used by people of malicious intent to cause harm.
>
>The Coercive faculty- exerting mental control over others. Charisma is
>also a coercive talent.
>
>The Creative faculty- the faculty that will most concern us. it covers
>molecular manipulation, energy projection and LOTS more.
>
>These are the main 5. but 2 more of note are:
>prescience- seeing the future, etc. this is the least understood of the
>talents, even amoung the alien races of the Milieu.
>
>dimension-jumping- also refered to as d-jumping. reqiures the generation
>of an upsilon field which transports whatever is within the confines of
>the field into hyperspace and out at a specific location. upsilon fields
>can be generated by mechanical means, but to do so mentally requires a
>paramount grand master class mentality (ie REALLY powerful) for more
>information on mental d-jumping, see The Adversary.
>
>If youve gotten this far: congratulations! now we come to the crux of my
>post. some months ago I realised that all of the mutant/superhuman powers
>displayed in marvel's books can be broken down into expressions of one or
>more of Julian May's metapsychic faculties. For example, Sue Richards
>force field can be seen to be a pk-creative combination. metapsychics of
>the Milieu often use them as umbrelas, like Jean Grey does in X-Men
>Prime. Cyclop's optic blast is a creative manifestation, similar to the
>one used by Palol One-eye during the Grand Combat in The Golden Torc.
>Cerebra in X-Men 2099 has an empathic abitity to locate mutants (a
>farsensory application) and the abitity to take control of a person's
>body (a coercive-redactive application.)
>
>And so we come to the end of my post, and the point where I throw this
>open to you, dear reader. I'm presenting a challenge to you. You specify
>me a mutant or superheroic abitity and I can almost guarantee that I can
>break it down. and to get the really hard on eout of the way first:
>
>Spider-Man. hes got that spider sense,which would be a low level
>prescient talent. (and you Julian May fans were probably wondering why I
>mentioned that one!) His strength is merely PK- enhanced, and his ability
>to cling to walls- creativity, with maybe some PK thrown in.
>
>So respond to this post with your abilities, and see if you can stump me!
>
>-The Animus
>
> "I am pure animus, Warlock. I am the depths from which greatness comes."
> -Magus to Warlock, Infinity War #6
>
Boomstick
Multiple man
Quicksilver and other fast types
Iceman
Nightcrawler
--
"Shop smart shop S-mart"
- Bruce Campbell (Ash)
<Army of Darkness>
The Animus
Nice to see that somebody's game. Lets get started, shall we?
Multiple Man- well, a semi tough one first off! All right, this would be
an expression of the creativity metafaculty, of paramount grand master
stature, used to reassemble molecules present in the matter-energy
lattices into facsimilies of himself, animated by PK. NEXT!
Quicksilver and other fast types- dead simple PK enhanced speed. NEXT!
Iceman- Once again, simple meta-creativity uses to reduce temeratures and
freeze stuff.NEXT!
Nightcrawler- didnt you read the section on D-jumping? cause that is what
this is. d-jumping. plain and simple. NEXT! -oh. theres no more.
Well, I was sorta hoping for some tougher ones than that. But anyway,
keep em rolling in!
-The Animus
"I am newborn. Inevitably."
-Fury, Jack the Bodiless, by Julian May
Boomstick
Has it been explained where exactly Quicksilver gets all that energy from?
Does he just shovel in tons (literaly) of food at a sitting?
Shouldn't he need to store it the form of fat?
Even if Quicksilver does raise some physics/anatomy questions I really like
him and hink that he should return to an X-team.
He belongs with the Xers not the Avengers.
Bring back Quicksilver!!!
Engineer
Boomstick wrote:
>
> Has it been explained where exactly Quicksilver gets all that energy
> from?
Didn't they try to link his mutantcy to Mags by saying something about
how his body uses the iron in his blood or something?
> Does he just shovel in tons (literaly) of food at a sitting?
He should be eating a lot of food all day, or maybe his body can convert
all the food he eats into energy, which leads to the lack of shitting
anywhere or anytime.
> Shouldn't he need to store it the form of fat?
Or it could be just running though his bloodstream as dissolved sugar, or
his body can metabolize the lactate or lactose (whatever that's in the
muscle cramp) much better.
I believe I saw in X-FActor, Val commented on Quicksilver going from dead
drunk to sober in two handshakes, or something like that.
--
Engineer, Scotty LaForged of BoSPMwaA
<----Shade and Sweet water, mes amis and Edgerunners------>
<-Assoc. Professor at Xavier's Institute of Higher Learning->
<---------Link at http://www-scf.usc.edu/~jamesony-------->
Kenny Abernathy
> He belongs with the Xers not the Avengers.
Well, he belongs with PAD-Factor. Any other book will screw him over.
And since he was originally an Avengers (in the classic Cap, Quick,
Witch, Hawkeye issues), I feel he has some committment to that team.
'Sides his wife used to be there. Poor dead Crystal. Poor
Personalityless Pietro. I lament Quickie more than Cryssie.
mark trenner
Boomstick wrote:
>
> Has it been explained where exactly Quicksilver gets all that energy from?
>
>
>
> him and hink that he should return to an X-team.
>
>
> --
> "Shop smart shop S-mart"
> - Bruce Campbell (Ash)
> <Army of Darkness>
and firestar and toro and well X-MAN !! and blink and rictor and all the
x-menbers in comic book limbo. what where all the hellions that got
killed ?
Michael Encinas
Boomstick wrote:
>
> Has it been explained where exactly Quicksilver gets all that energy from?
>
> Does he just shovel in tons (literaly) of food at a sitting?
>
> Shouldn't he need to store it the form of fat?
>
> Even if Quicksilver does raise some physics/anatomy questions I really like
> him and hink that he should return to an X-team.
>
> He belongs with the Xers not the Avengers.
>
> Bring back Quicksilver!!!
If you have to ask a question like that, then you have to ask how come
Spider-Man doesn't make a Arnold Schwarzenegger look wimpy, when it comes to
strength and physical size. :)
And Quicksilver was, is, and always will be an Avenger.
Michael
Leonard Wu
Boomstick (finge...@usa.pipeline.com) writes:
> Has it been explained where exactly Quicksilver gets all that energy from?
>
> Does he just shovel in tons (literaly) of food at a sitting?
>
> Shouldn't he need to store it the form of fat?
>
> Even if Quicksilver does raise some physics/anatomy questions I really like
> him and hink that he should return to an X-team.
>
> He belongs with the Xers not the Avengers.
No, he should be back at X-Factor, I really liked him when he was at X-Factor.
--
|Lenny Wu | Member of SOS, OSMC, and RANCO
|Wild...@msn.com | The Genma Rep for RANCO
--------------------------
Visit My Webpage @ http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/5316
Yu Kee Lim
Kitty's phasing.
mm, Jack Power (of the power pack) gravity power (previously Alex Power's, then to be Katie's Power; but I still like
to think of it as Jack's power. confused? :)
Black Cat's ex bad luck power.
Vision's density control.
yk
Paul O'Brien
finge...@usa.pipeline.com(Boomstick) writes:
>Has it been explained where exactly Quicksilver gets all that energy from?
He's much more efficient at converting food to energy. Presumably
he eats large amounts to compensate for the amounts he uses up.
Paul O'Brien
pr...@tattoo.ed.ac.uk, 1995 SLT (News) 228
http://www.scotweb.co.uk/threeweeks
The Animus
Kittys phasing and visions density control are the same thing really. Its
really just a molecular thing that can be handled by metacreativity.
Would take some small amount of skill though. And Vision is a robot. He
doesnt really count in this discussion. organics only please.
Jack Powers gravity power- applied use of PK-creative generated
gravitational fields.
Black cats bad luck power- how did she get this? was it mechanical,
mystical or genetic? This would be coercive tampering of the probability
lattices. (I am not just making this up- there really are probability
lattices.)
-The Animus
"I am newborn.Inevitably."
Carolyn Vaughan
In article <4u6vek$b...@hobyah.cc.uq.oz.au>, The Animus
<s33...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> The Animus <s33...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
[Massive snipping]
> >And so we come to the end of my post, and the point where I throw this
> >open to you, dear reader. I'm presenting a challenge to you. You specify
> >me a mutant or superheroic abitity and I can almost guarantee that I can
> >break it down. and to get the really hard on eout of the way first:
> >
> >Spider-Man. hes got that spider sense,which would be a low level
> >prescient talent. (and you Julian May fans were probably wondering why I
> >mentioned that one!) His strength is merely PK- enhanced, and his ability
> >to cling to walls- creativity, with maybe some PK thrown in.
> >
> >So respond to this post with your abilities, and see if you can stump me!
Shrinking (Thumbellina of the MLF, Ant-Man and the Wasp of the Avengers)
[And it can't simply be compression of the space between their atoms,
because that would result in their density increasing as they get smaller,
which is manifestly not the case.]
Tempo of the MLF's ability to selectively slow time in an area.
--
Carolyn Vaughan - Vaug...@alison.sbc.edu | Curious Lass of the LNH
Carolyn...@mobiuscon.com | Member, Blink Fan Club
Zoe_Fan on #lsh | Member, Magik Fan Club | A Halcyon Van Rug
Mutants are superheroes with a biological predisposition to angst.:^)
Engineer
The Animus wrote:
> Black cats bad luck power- how did she get this? was it mechanical,
She got it from Kingpin, I think.
--
Engineer, Scotty LaForged of BoSPMwaA
<---- Shade and Sweet water, mes amis and Edgerunners ---->
<-Assoc. Professor at Xavier's Institute of Higher Learning->
<-------- Link at http://www-scf.usc.edu/~jamesony ------->
Mer...@mpreston.demon.co.uk
bm...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Leonard Wu) wrote:
>No, he should be back at X-Factor, I really liked him when he was at X-Factor.
The slightest thought of any of PAD's X-Factor in the hands of Mackie
fills me with dread. It's bad enough that he has rabidly ravaged
Havok, Polaris and Random.
Merlin
"He's not an easy man to overlook, but well worth the effort."
Bob Monkhouse. Not X-Related, but pretty funny.
James Bunny(TM)
Mer...@mpreston.demon.co.uk wrote:
: bm...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Leonard Wu) wrote:
: >No, he should be back at X-Factor, I really liked him when he was at X-Factor.
: The slightest thought of any of PAD's X-Factor in the hands of Mackie
: fills me with dread. It's bad enough that he has rabidly ravaged
: Havok, Polaris and Random.
And Forge, and Wild *HEART*, and Val Cooper, and dare I say it? Mystique
and Sabretooth,e ven.
--
\\ \\ |_/ "Jesus is now depicted in Oberammergau as a sissy with 12 \_|
\\-\\ |_\ idiots following behind him, moaning, 'He's gonna die, he's /_|
( X-X) |_/ gonna die'." - Anonymous *GERMAN* Critic in Oberammergau. \_|
{_^_} -|_\ Liberator of Wheeler's Couches! E-Mail:ho...@syr.edu /_|
Jeffryes Joshua M
Boomstick (finge...@usa.pipeline.com) wrote:
:|Has it been explained where exactly Quicksilver gets all that energy from?
:|
:|Shouldn't he need to store it the form of fat?
I really like the concept of an enormously fat speedster. At the
beginning of any fight, he starts off the size of the Blob, then rapidly
loses weight as he metabolizes fat. By the end of a medium-length fight,
he'd be incredibly thin, and would risk starving to death if things
lasted too long.
Then again, an obese speedster that _didn't_ lose weight as the result of
his powers would be neat, too.
J. Spectre - imagine Fat Albert coming at you at Mach 3. Zoikers, Scoob.
|"If you want a book that drives people | "Who are you, Patchwork Girl, |
| crazy, I've heard the Christian Bible | aflutter in the wind? A jigsaw |
| works fairly well." - Calle Dybedahl | made of other things I thought |
|Fight overpopulation. Kill someone. JS | you might have been." -jmj |
Jeffryes Joshua M
Carolyn Vaughan (vaug...@alison.sbc.edu) wrote:
:|In article <4u6vek$b...@hobyah.cc.uq.oz.au>, The Animus
:|<s33...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
:|> The Animus <s33...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
:|[Massive snipping]
:|> >And so we come to the end of my post, and the point where I throw this
:|> >open to you, dear reader. I'm presenting a challenge to you. You specify
:|> >me a mutant or superheroic abitity and I can almost guarantee that I can
:|> >break it down. and to get the really hard on eout of the way first:
Uh, what?
:|> >Spider-Man. hes got that spider sense,which would be a low level
:|> >prescient talent. (and you Julian May fans were probably wondering why I
:|> >mentioned that one!) His strength is merely PK- enhanced, and his ability
:|> >to cling to walls- creativity, with maybe some PK thrown in.
:|> >
:|> >So respond to this post with your abilities, and see if you can stump me!
Spider-Man is not a telekinetic. His strenght very clearly comes from
muscle power, not mind power. He's been examined by a multitude of Marvel
Scientists, and it has been clearly shown that all of his tissues, from
skin to bone to muscle, have unusual compositions granting them superior
strength and resilience. He gets muscle fatigue, and drugs that effect
muscles (relaxants and paralysis drugs, for example) but not the mind
will effect his strength. Note that he also heals rapidly, again due to
his enhanced _physical_ systems.
His wall-clinging is through electromagnetic charge suppression. This is
canon. No telekinesis here.
:|Shrinking (Thumbellina of the MLF, Ant-Man and the Wasp of the Avengers)
:|[And it can't simply be compression of the space between their atoms,
:|because that would result in their density increasing as they get smaller,
:|which is manifestly not the case.]
There is _no_ way that shrinking can be explained through physics. It's
magic.
A human being compressed to the size of an ant would be coal. Most
cellular functions are very dependant on atoms being a certain distance
from each other, and even a little compression would handily kill a
living being. Integrated Circuits wouldn't handle it too well either.
Marvel's standard explaination, the shunting of mass into a pocket
dimension, doesn't work either, as the random loss of atoms would be,
shall we say, less than good. Lose any one atom out of a cell, and
there's fairly good chances it was part of something important, never
mind whatever molecule it was part of is now something else. Losing cells
themselves would be even worse. And just how does a brain the size of an
ant still work like one the size of a normal human brain? Neurons are
already about as small as they can be, and shrinking would either disable
them or require the loss of neurons. Becoming the size of an ant isn't
nearly as cool if it means you're as smart as one.
Shrinking the atoms themselves wouldn't work, since then those atoms can
no longer interact with normal-sized atoms. No breathing, no static
electricity, and it's debatable if light and gravity would still affect
you (assuming gravity is conveyed by gravitons. Photons, BTW, do not just
bounce off of objects to create color. They are absorbed and then
re-emmitted by the electron shell, which would be tricky with incorrectly
sized electrons). There's a host of other problems I leave to your
imagination.
:|Tempo of the MLF's ability to selectively slow time in an area.
Well, according to Hawking's new theory, time is just a function of
passing through finite units of space, so maybe she just pours
telekinetic molasses all over everything. Or maybe it's just a silly and
not explainable power.
J. Spectre - Superheroes are like Star Trek. The only logical
explaination for anything is magic gnomes.
Faramir
>>
>>And so we come to the end of my post, and the point where I throw this
>>open to you, dear reader. I'm presenting a challenge to you. You
specify
>>me a mutant or superheroic abitity and I can almost guarantee that I
can
>>break it down.
Okay, Animus, try this on for size:
SuperSkrull
ShadowCat
The unnamed Mutant in the Morlock Massacre who could turn herself it a
thin slip of paper thin substance before slipping into really thin
gaps(just before she got massacred by harpoon, I think)
The Vanisher
Leech
Blob
Malice
How about Cosmic Powers?
The Inbetweener
Silver Surfer
Death
That last way may be difficult...
The Animus
Superskrull, huh? The Reed power- metacreative manipulation of the body's
cell structure. The Sue power- PK-creative shields and creative screening
for the invisibility. Ben's power- his skin is creativly altered, and has
PK enhanced strength. Johnney's power- the flames are metcreative anf the
flight is PK
Shadow Cat- I've done this before. Go find the post.
the unnamed mutant- this is obscure isnt it. thurning into a piece of
paper is metacreative. People are always turning into birds and things in
the Saga of the Exiles. The sliping through gaps in reality thing- I
never met this mutant so I'm not sure, but most likley d-jumping.
The Vanisher? youre kidding, right? go back and read the section on
d-jumping.
Leech- coercive/redactive mental blocks to stop them using their powers.
Blob, huh? similar to reed- creative tampering with cellular structure.
Which Malice are we talking bout? the Sue Richards split personality, or
the Malice who worked for Sinister? I'll assume the latter.I dont know
too much about her, so I'm not too sure of this- didnt she posess people?
If so, simple coercion. If not, get back to me.
The Inbetweener- all I've ever seen from him was energy projection, which
is metacreativity. If there's more to him,get back to me.
The Silver Surfer- The skin is metacreative, the energy projection is
too, and the flight is PK.
Death- she's got some energy projection, which is (again) metacreativity,
other than that, give me some examples.
hopefully, now that Yawnslaught is over, This thread will get the
attention that it deserves.
-The Animus
"I am newborn. Inevitably."
Jessica Murray
In article <vaughan99-110...@205.252.38.10>,
vaug...@alison.sbc.edu says...
>Shrinking (Thumbellina of the MLF, Ant-Man and the Wasp of the Avengers)
Ah, you want a sound pseudo-scientific explanation of Shrinking powers,
do you? You've come to the right place. You see, shrinking characters
actually exist in four dimensions, and when we percieve them as
"shrinking," they are, in fact, merely presenting a smaller and less
massive three-dimensional cross-section of themselves in our space.
--Jessica Murray
Carolyn Vaughan
In article <4uonn7$c...@ursa.smsu.edu>, jmj...@nic.smsu.edu (Jeffryes
Joshua M) wrote:
> Carolyn Vaughan (vaug...@alison.sbc.edu) wrote:
> :|In article <4u6vek$b...@hobyah.cc.uq.oz.au>, The Animus
> :|<s33...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>
> :|> The Animus <s33...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> :|[Massive snipping]
> :|> >And so we come to the end of my post, and the point where I throw this
> :|> >open to you, dear reader. I'm presenting a challenge to you. You specify
> :|> >me a mutant or superheroic abitity and I can almost guarantee that I can
> :|> >break it down. and to get the really hard on eout of the way first:
>
> Uh, what?
Tha Animus is trying to explain super-powers in terms of the psychic
abilities from Julian May's book. The explanations aren't necessarily how
the powers 'really work', but how the powers can be described as
manifestations of those abilities. For a more detailed explanation,
either read the original post, or I can e-mail a copy to you if your
server never got it.
[snip rest of message]
Carolyn Vaughan
In article <4upa74$l...@ursa.smsu.edu>, jlm...@nic.smsu.edu (Jessica
Murray) wrote:
But then how do you explain the fact that they are only aware of what is
going in our space?:^)
Besides, I already know of a sound pseudo-scientific explanation of
shrinking, which has to do with doing weird things with space-time. If
you want to see this explanation (which I didn't write, BTW), and you have
WWW access, it's at http://www.onu.edu/~stu3131/vi.html. It's
specifically about a character in DC's Legion of Super-heroes, but the
explanation could be expanded to explain other characters who shrink.
Engineer
Jeffryes Joshua M wrote:
> There is _no_ way that shrinking can be explained through physics. It's
> can no longer interact with normal-sized atoms. No breathing, no static
> electricity, and it's debatable if light and gravity would still affect
> you (assuming gravity is conveyed by gravitons. Photons, BTW, do not
> just bounce off of objects to create color. They are absorbed and then
> re-emmitted by the electron shell, which would be tricky with
> incorrectly sized electrons). There's a host of other problems I leave
> to your imagination.
Well, that is not the only definition given by Marvel. They also say that
when someone shrinks, depending on howthey do it, they also shrink a the
air around them, and have a miniature field surrounding them that shrinks
things to the proper scale. It doesn't explain why everything touched it
shrunk, but it's their theory in the Ultimate Powers book.
Lord of deXness
In article <4uom83$c...@ursa.smsu.edu> jmj...@nic.smsu.edu (Jeffryes Joshua M) writes:
>Boomstick (finge...@usa.pipeline.com) wrote:
>:|Has it been explained where exactly Quicksilver gets all that energy from?
>:|
>:|Shouldn't he need to store it the form of fat?
>
>I really like the concept of an enormously fat speedster. At the
>beginning of any fight, he starts off the size of the Blob, then rapidly
>loses weight as he metabolizes fat. By the end of a medium-length fight,
>he'd be incredibly thin, and would risk starving to death if things
>lasted too long.
>
>Then again, an obese speedster that _didn't_ lose weight as the result of
>his powers would be neat, too.
>
>
One thing I liked about DP7 (RIP Mark) was that the speedster, Jeff, used to
be the chunky manager of a McDonald's. When his metabolism speeded up, he
lost a lot of weight and throughout the book had to eat continuously to keep
from starving to death.
(There were a lot of things I liked about DP7. I wish I could complete my
collection...)
deX!
Daniel McEwen
Engineer wrote:
> Well, that is not the only definition given by Marvel. They also say that
> when someone shrinks, depending on howthey do it, they also shrink a the
> air around them, and have a miniature field surrounding them that shrinks
> things to the proper scale. It doesn't explain why everything touched it
> shrunk, but it's their theory in the Ultimate Powers book.
I thought all shrinking/growing was dependent upon Pym Particles. Mass
is drawn from or fed into the dimension of the Pym Particles, depending
upon whether the person is growing or shrinking. I'm not saying it
makes any real sense, but I always thought that was the explanation.
--
Daniel
djmc...@ix.netcom.com
DOCTOR
Molecules , Unbreakable metals, and radiation that doesn't kill you?
DOCTOR
universe second addition. A kinetic field surrounds Pete's body. He uses
the field to push the momentum of his body at super speed into any
direction he wishes. This means he needs no more food to use his power
than any energy weilding hero would need.
Engineer
Well, the Pym Particles are a technological example of a "natural"
process, as exhibited by . . . I don't remember, but there are natural
beings or mutants who grow in size. The Ultimate Powers book gave three
reasons for growing/shrinking. 1: Add/lose mass. The problem was that
eventually, you fall into the problem of becoming just one cell, then
what? I believe Pym Particles use this means? 2: Molecules grow/shrink.
That was the kind I explained in the earlier post. By the way, this is
the only way one could conceivabley shrink into the Microverse. 3: I
forget this one exactly, but I thik it had to do with the space/ density
thing.
Engineer
DOCTOR wrote:
> why are we trying to aply real science to a universe with Unstable
> Molecules , Unbreakable metals, and radiation that doesn't kill you?
Well, I would say that the first two are possible, but not in the near
future, and radiation doesn't kill you, its the mutated cells interacting
with your normal ones that kill you.
And Marvel agrees that theeffects of radiaton kills most people, it's
only the rareity that can survive.
Yu Kee Lim
Engineer (jame...@usc.edu) wrote:
: Daniel McEwen wrote:
: >
: > Engineer wrote:
: >
: beings or mutants who grow in size. The Ultimate Powers book gave three
: reasons for growing/shrinking. 1: Add/lose mass. The problem was that
: eventually, you fall into the problem of becoming just one cell, then
: what? I believe Pym Particles use this means? 2: Molecules grow/shrink.
: That was the kind I explained in the earlier post. By the way, this is
: the only way one could conceivabley shrink into the Microverse. 3: I
: forget this one exactly, but I thik it had to do with the space/ density
: thing.
Yep. More specifically, shrinking involves pulling your molecules closer
together and growth involves increasing the distance between them. The
problem with this is that there are limits on either side, shrink too
small and you collapse into a blackhole; expand too much and you become
too incorporeal to affect anything. By the way, this is the variant that
Jack/Julie/Alex Power had (in that order).
yk
mark trenner
i think we have to know that this is fanasty with real life and other
things crushing together .
Jeffryes Joshua M
Important note:
It you're going to claim to be able to explain things, please do so.
Merely throwing the modifier "meta" in front of technobabble explains
nothing.
J. Spectre - see, I was just "metabitchy."
Boomstick
Alberts, Wolvie robot, claws/superstructure are made of what?
Is Al still around?
Who built him, again, I forget?
Albert has potential and I want to know more about him.
--
Boomstick: Of the BoSPMwaA
Everyone is welcome to read DOFCP, my fan-fic epic as it is written. Want a
copy? Look no further than alt.comics.fan-fiction, the newsgroup for the
creative comic reader.
Jeffryes Joshua M
Engineer (jame...@usc.edu) wrote:
:|Well, that is not the only definition given by Marvel. They also say that
:|when someone shrinks, depending on howthey do it, they also shrink a the
:|air around them, and have a miniature field surrounding them that shrinks
:|things to the proper scale. It doesn't explain why everything touched it
:|shrunk, but it's their theory in the Ultimate Powers book.
Here's another problem, then.
Electron orbitals are where they are because as a wave, placing them
anywhere else (ie: changing the length of their orbital path) would cause
the peaks and troughs of the waves to cancel out, and the electron to
cease to exist. Obviously, that can't happen. Now then, you start
shrinking the size of the atom, most of which is defined by the electron
cloud. Unless you're somehow making the first few orbitals accept more
electrons (which would change the chemical properties of the atom),
you'll have to shorten the electron's orbit, which means all your
electrons cease to exist.
So, the minute Hank Pym becomes the size of an ant, he also become a raw
mass of protons and neutrons, which is bad for Hank Pym.
J. Spectre - btw... the Ultimate Powers book, which I rather liked, was
written by people at TSR, and really has no bearing on Marvel.
aaron stuart
In <4uu353$g...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com>
finge...@usa.pipeline.com(Boomstick) writes:
>
>Alberts, Wolvie robot, claws/superstructure are made of what?
years in that time-hopping story with him and Elsie Dee.
>
>Is Al still around?
He is still around, hanging out in a space ship (or time ship, I forget
which) with Elsie Dee (just her head or did Forge ever finish building
her a new body).
>
>Who built him, again, I forget?
I always thought the entire storyline with Albert and Elsie Dee was
pretty cool. Especially when they were hanging out with Bloodscream.
The Animus
>:|In article <4u6vek$b...@hobyah.cc.uq.oz.au>, The Animus
>:|<s33...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>
>:|> The Animus <s33...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>:|[Massive snipping]
>:|> >And so we come to the end of my post, and the point where I throw this
>:|> >open to you, dear reader. I'm presenting a challenge to you. You specify
>:|> >me a mutant or superheroic abitity and I can almost guarantee that I can
>:|> >break it down. and to get the really hard on eout of the way first:
>
>Uh, what?
>
>:|> >Spider-Man. hes got that spider sense,which would be a low level
>:|> >prescient talent. (and you Julian May fans were probably wondering why I
>:|> >mentioned that one!) His strength is merely PK- enhanced, and his ability
>:|> >to cling to walls- creativity, with maybe some PK thrown in.
>:|> >
>:|> >So respond to this post with your abilities, and see if you can stump me!
>
>Spider-Man is not a telekinetic. His strenght very clearly comes from
>muscle power, not mind power. He's been examined by a multitude of
<snip>
You betray your ignorance, my friend. you clearly did not read the
ORIGINAL post. In that I explained that I would break down powers, not in
pseudo-scientific terms, BUT IN TERMS OF THE METAPSYCHIC POWERS DISPLAYED
BY THE CHARACTERS IN JULIAN MAY'S SAGA OF THE EXILES AND GALACTIC MILIEU
TRILOGY. hence the title of the post. but, just for you, I might re-post
it. if I can find it.
>
>:|Shrinking (Thumbellina of the MLF, Ant-Man and the Wasp of the Avengers)
>
>:|[And it can't simply be compression of the space between their atoms,
>:|because that would result in their density increasing as they get smaller,
>:|which is manifestly not the case.]
>
>There is _no_ way that shrinking can be explained through physics. It's
>magic.
>
<snip>
Also, it is MY job to break down these powers. not yours. after I give my
breakdown, then you can contribute with your opinions. Because I dont
have my own PC, I can only check this newsgroup every few days. be
patient. Anyway, shrinking is similar to metacreative shape changing. In
that, the person changed asumes all the physical properties of the thing
changed into. eg- you change into a bird, say a sparrow. other people can
pick you up quite easily and can pet you etc. as if you really were a
sparrow.
>
>:|Tempo of the MLF's ability to selectively slow time in an area.
>
>Well, according to Hawking's new theory, time is just a function of
>passing through finite units of space, so maybe she just pours
>telekinetic molasses all over everything. Or maybe it's just a silly and
>not explainable power.
This is the only time I get psuedo-scientific, when I have to talk about
certain scientific principles unique to Ms May's books. Here I have to
talk about tau-field, which allow time travel. They can be mechanicly
generated, but there have only been 2 notable successes. (read the Saga
of the Exiles for more details) But this power would require
farsensory-creative generated tau-fields, which could be manipulated with
more sucess.
>
>
>
>J. Spectre - Superheroes are like Star Trek. The only logical
> explaination for anything is magic gnomes.
>
>|"If you want a book that drives people | "Who are you, Patchwork Girl, |
>| crazy, I've heard the Christian Bible | aflutter in the wind? A jigsaw |
>| works fairly well." - Calle Dybedahl | made of other things I thought |
>|Fight overpopulation. Kill someone. JS | you might have been." -jmj |
>
--
-The Animus
"I am newborn. Inevitably"
Jeffryes Joshua M
The Animus (s33...@student.uq.edu.au) wrote:
:|You betray your ignorance, my friend. you clearly did not read the
:|pseudo-scientific terms, BUT IN TERMS OF THE METAPSYCHIC POWERS DISPLAYED
:|BY THE CHARACTERS IN JULIAN MAY'S SAGA OF THE EXILES AND GALACTIC MILIEU
:|TRILOGY. hence the title of the post. but, just for you, I might re-post
:|it. if I can find it.
Aha. Well then, I apologize. I'm not familiar with May's work. Perhaps
next time a short explaination at the top of the post could be included?
(you might note that various others have failed to see the May
connection, and have begun turning this into a Marvel Physics thread)
:|>
--
J. Spectre - you might also look into a new newsreader program, so as not
to have to quote the entire article you're responding to.
Andrew Walsh
aaron stuart (ah...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: In <4uu353$g...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com>
: finge...@usa.pipeline.com(Boomstick) writes:
: >
: >Alberts, Wolvie robot, claws/superstructure are made of what?
: I thought adamatium. His claws were still around after X number of
: years in that time-hopping story with him and Elsie Dee.
: >
: >Is Al still around?
: He is still around, hanging out in a space ship (or time ship, I forget
: which) with Elsie Dee (just her head or did Forge ever finish building
: her a new body).
: >
: >Who built him, again, I forget?
: Same person who built Elsie Dee, but I don't who that is.
: I always thought the entire storyline with Albert and Elsie Dee was
: pretty cool. Especially when they were hanging out with Bloodscream.
The person who built them was Donald Pierce.
: >Albert has potential and I want to know more about him.
: >--
: >Boomstick: Of the BoSPMwaA
: >Everyone is welcome to read DOFCP, my fan-fic epic as it is written.
: Want a
: >copy? Look no further than alt.comics.fan-fiction, the newsgroup for
: the
: >creative comic reader.
--
Andrew Walsh
p027...@pbfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us
Engineer
Jeffryes Joshua M wrote:
> Here's another problem, then.
((snipped))
> Unless you're somehow making the first few orbitals
> accept more electrons (which would change the chemical properties of
> the atom), you'll have to shorten the electron's orbit, which means all
> your electrons cease to exist.
Yea, well then then everything shirnks, including protons, neutrons,
pizers, electrons, etc.
David R. Henry
The Animus writes:
>You betray your ignorance, my friend. you clearly did not read the
>ORIGINAL post. In that I explained that I would break down powers, not in
>pseudo-scientific terms, BUT IN TERMS OF THE METAPSYCHIC POWERS DISPLAYED
>BY THE CHARACTERS IN JULIAN MAY'S SAGA OF THE EXILES AND GALACTIC MILIEU
>TRILOGY.
Good lords, why?
Here's a challenge: describe the powers of Danny the Street using the
metapsychic powers in the Galactic Milieu trying to describe the
powers from Zelazny's Amber series.
--
dhe...@plains.nodak.edu Old Endgame, Lost of Old
Play and Lose and have Done with Losing
Alleigh
ah...@ix.netcom.com(aaron stuart) wrote:
>In <4uu353$g...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com>
>finge...@usa.pipeline.com(Boomstick) writes:
>>
>>Alberts, Wolvie robot, claws/superstructure are made of what?
>I thought adamatium. His claws were still around after X number of
>years in that time-hopping story with him and Elsie Dee.
>>
>>Is Al still around?
>He is still around, hanging out in a space ship (or time ship, I forget
>which) with Elsie Dee (just her head or did Forge ever finish building
>her a new body).
>>
>>Who built him, again, I forget?
>Same person who built Elsie Dee, but I don't who that is.
>I always thought the entire storyline with Albert and Elsie Dee was
>pretty cool. Especially when they were hanging out with Bloodscream.
I believe Donald Pierce had them built, but I don't remember who built
them. .
You puny, pathetic human -- to think you could take a telepath
by surprise...or your gun would be any threat to a telekinetic.
- Rachel - Uncanny X-Men #196
Joe Helfrich
mark trenner (mtr...@salamander.net) wrote:
: DOCTOR wrote:
<80 + lines snipped>
: > why are we trying to aply real science to a universe with Unstable
: > Molecules , Unbreakable metals, and radiation that doesn't kill you?
:
:
: i think we have to know that this is fanasty with real life and other
: things crushing together .
Both valid points. Unfortunatly, if I hadn't decided to make you two an
examplecase (you are by no means the only offenders....people who should
know better are also guilty) I never would have seen them. Trim your text
in followups, folks, it makes reading a lot easier!
Joe, friend of ctrl-K! :)
--
Joe Helfrich, Managing Editor, CPI |We live in a country where John Lennon
j...@dimensional.com |takes six bullets to the chest, Yoko
http://www.dimensional.com/~jbh |Ono's standing right next to him--and
[x] CDA [X] Amendment 2 [ ] HR 342-67|not one f*@%ing bullet! --Denis Leary
Frederick Oliver
Jeffryes Joshua M (jmj...@nic.smsu.edu) wrote:
: Important note:
: It you're going to claim to be able to explain things, please do so. :
Merely throwing the modifier "meta" in front of technobabble explains :
nothing.
: J. Spectre - see, I was just "metabitchy."
: |"If you want a book that drives people | "Who are you, Patchwork Girl, |
: | crazy, I've heard the Christian Bible | aflutter in the wind? A jigsaw |
: | works fairly well." - Calle Dybedahl | made of other things I thought |
: |Fight overpopulation. Kill someone. JS | you might have been." -jmj |
Again, your statements show that you dont have a clue as to what you are
talking about. I will explain this as simply as possible- In Julian May's
universe, all mutants are psionics, or AS SHE CALLS THEM "Metapsychics".
Metapsychic abilities are commonly reffered to as "metabilities". The
individual "shools" of metapsychic talent are often distinguished from
their non-psionic cousins by the use of the prefix "meta" eg
metacreativity, metacoercion. So you see, the term meta does have a use,
and what we are discussing here is not "technobabble" its "psi-babble".
Again I say to you- GO AND READ MY ORIGINAL POST, YOU IGNORANT IDIOT!
better still, go and read Julian May's books, they are- The Saga of the
Exiles, Intervention, and The Galactic Milieu Trilogy. Only then will you
be knowledgable enough to contribute to this discussion. Until then, I
dont want to hear from you again.
-The Animus
"I am newborn. Inevitably."
Vermilion
In article <4v980t$6...@hobyah.cc.uq.oz.au> s33...@student.uq.edu.au (Frederick Oliver) writes:
<snippage>
>Again I say to you- GO AND READ MY ORIGINAL POST, YOU IGNORANT IDIOT!
>better still, go and read Julian May's books, they are- The Saga of the
>Exiles, Intervention, and The Galactic Milieu Trilogy. Only then will you
>be knowledgable enough to contribute to this discussion. Until then, I
>dont want to hear from you again.
Hey! How about that! I don't wanna hear from YOU either!
- Vermilion, who _still_ doesn't understand why people can't discuss
without calling each other "ignorant idiots". Then again, why the
hell would you want to contribute to a "discussion" when the other
respondant is treating you like a jackass? Maybe you'll get your
wish after all, Animus.
Frederick Oliver
David R. Henry (dhe...@plains.nodak.edu) wrote:
: The Animus writes:
: Good lords, why?
: --
Uh... Say what? To start with, I dont have a clue who Danny the Street
is, let alone his powers, And I'm not remotely familiar with Zelany's
Amber sreies. As to why I'm doing this, This is what is called a
speculative thread- It serves no pupose except speculation. But the thing
its- it works. the marvel mutations and superabitities CAN be broken down
in terms of Ms May's metabilities, and I find it quite fun. I would hope
the readers would find it interesting, as well.
Frederick Oliver
Joe Helfrich (j...@dimensional.com) wrote:
: <80 + lines snipped>
: : > why are we trying to aply real science to a universe with Unstable
: : > Molecules , Unbreakable metals, and radiation that doesn't kill you?
: :
: :
: : i think we have to know that this is fanasty with real life and other
: : things crushing together .
: Both valid points. Unfortunatly, if I hadn't decided to make you two an
: examplecase (you are by no means the only offenders....people who should
: know better are also guilty) I never would have seen them. Trim your text
: in followups, folks, it makes reading a lot easier!
: Joe, friend of ctrl-K! :)
: --
: Joe Helfrich, Managing Editor, CPI |We live in a country where John Lennon
: j...@dimensional.com |takes six bullets to the chest, Yoko
: http://www.dimensional.com/~jbh |Ono's standing right next to him--and
: [x] CDA [X] Amendment 2 [ ] HR 342-67|not one f*@%ing bullet! --Denis Leary
I know this is terribly off topic- forgive me- but I'm just so glad to
see another Denis Leary fan! See if you can regognize this qoute-
QUOTE
And this is what sums up the animal rights movement most of all:
"Dont eat the tuna fish!"
"Why?"
"Cause Dolphins are getting stuck in the nets!"
"Well, what about the tuna fish?"
"Well, f@#k them, they taste good!"
UNQOUTE
-The Animus
"I am newborn. Inevitably."
-Fury, Jack the Bodiless, by Julian May
"I am pure animus, Warlock. I am the depths from which grteatness comes."
Alan M. Carroll
In article <4v98mk$6...@hobyah.cc.uq.oz.au>
s33...@student.uq.edu.au (Frederick Oliver) wrote:
> But the thing
> its- it works. the marvel mutations and superabitities CAN be broken down
> in terms of Ms May's metabilities, and I find it quite fun. I would hope
> the readers would find it interesting, as well.
Of course it works - it's got a grab-bag anything goes category, "Creative".
You name the mutant power, I'll say "Creative" and we'll be done. Since the
power May labels "Creative" does not appear to have any limits or structure,
it can "explain" anything. You may find mindlessly repeating "Creative" while
other people name mutant powers fun, but most people don't.
---
Alan M. Carroll "Weren't there yams involved, too?" - J. Ockerbloom
AMC's Top 3 "I was going to switch her to DOS, but she had a gun"
Out Of Context Quotes "I hate shopping with the reality-impaired" - Susan
Engineer
William R. Hirons wrote:
>I remember him saying something to someone like "y'know how it feels to
>be behind someone in line at the supermarket that is REALLY slow and
>takes for ever to count their money? well thats what it's like for me
>all the time.
That issue was a classic. I recall he was trying to build a house of
cards. utthat dialogue get his attitutde on people and his arrogance just
right.
William R. Hirons
On 13 Aug 1996 01:37:07 GMT, jmj...@nic.smsu.edu (Jeffryes Joshua M)
wrote:
>Boomstick (finge...@usa.pipeline.com) wrote:
>:|Has it been explained where exactly Quicksilver gets all that energy from?
>:|
>:|Shouldn't he need to store it the form of fat?
>
>I really like the concept of an enormously fat speedster. At the
>beginning of any fight, he starts off the size of the Blob, then rapidly
>loses weight as he metabolizes fat. By the end of a medium-length fight,
>he'd be incredibly thin, and would risk starving to death if things
>lasted too long.
>
>Then again, an obese speedster that _didn't_ lose weight as the result of
>his powers would be neat, too.
>
>
>J. Spectre - imagine Fat Albert coming at you at Mach 3. Zoikers, Scoob.
>
>|"If you want a book that drives people | "Who are you, Patchwork Girl, |
>| crazy, I've heard the Christian Bible | aflutter in the wind? A jigsaw |
>| works fairly well." - Calle Dybedahl | made of other things I thought |
>|Fight overpopulation. Kill someone. JS | you might have been." -jmj |
>
I somehow got the impression that Pietro was just fast, he lived at an
advanced rate of speed. I remember him complaining at different points
how annoying for him it was to have to slow down in his everyday life
so he was at the same rate as everyone else. I remember him saying
something to someone like "y'know how it feels to be behind someone in
line at the supermarket that is REALLY slow and takes for ever to
count their money? well thats what it's like for me all the time.
Starkalien
mark trenner
this is fanasty with real life and other things crashing into everything
.
Engineer
The Animus wrote:
> Why, yes, I do label powers as metacreative alot. But you'll also note
> that I try to define it a bit further- I say what use the creativity
> would go to, how the creativity would actually achieve the end result.
I guess I am not too big on Juilian's meta-whatever, but as I was reading
it, it still seemed too easy of a cop-out. I got the impression that
maybe her classifications weren't supposed to be generalized and
redundant like the way you used them. If not, then the catagorizing
system wasn't too creative or specific enough for such a diversity of
mutancy expression.
Dan McEwen
Engineer wrote:
>
> The Animus wrote:
> > Why, yes, I do label powers as metacreative alot. But you'll also note
> > that I try to define it a bit further- I say what use the creativity
> > would go to, how the creativity would actually achieve the end result.
>
> I guess I am not too big on Juilian's meta-whatever, but as I was reading
> it, it still seemed too easy of a cop-out. I got the impression that
> maybe her classifications weren't supposed to be generalized and
> redundant like the way you used them. If not, then the catagorizing
> system wasn't too creative or specific enough for such a diversity of
> mutancy expression.
>
the Pleiocene(sp?) Era) didn't show anything near the level of ability
that the Animus uses. I never saw anyone shapeshift (except through
telepathy; that is to say, not actually changing shape, but *appearing*
to be another shape). I never saw anyone use TK for strength (outside
of Psi-Force, anyway). True, you _could_ apply psionics to nearly any
power, just like what was done in Wild Cards. But I don't believe that
was the intent of May's books.
--
Daniel
djmc...@ix.netcom.com
The Animus
Why, yes, I do label powers as metacreative alot. But you'll also note
that I try to define it a bit further- I say what use the creativity
would go to, how the creativity would actually achieve the end result.
--
-The Animus
"I am newborn. Inevitably"
-Fury, Jack the Bodiless, by Julian May
"I am pure animus, Warlock. I am the depths from which greatness comes."
David R. Henry
Engineer writes:
>>I remember him saying something to someone like "y'know how it feels to
>>be behind someone in line at the supermarket that is REALLY slow and
>>takes for ever to count their money? well thats what it's like for me
>>all the time.
>
>That issue was a classic. I recall he was trying to build a house of
>cards. utthat dialogue get his attitutde on people and his arrogance just
>right.
No, he was building a jigsaw puzzle... of a snail.
Thing70
From: dhe...@plains.nodak.edu (David R. Henry)
Date: 24 Aug 1996 16:58:19 -0500
Message-ID: <4vnttr$g...@plains.nodak.edu>
Engineer writes:
>> >I remember him saying something to someone like "y'know how it feels
to
>> >be behind someone in line at the supermarket that is REALLY slow and
>> >takes for ever to count their money? well thats what it's like for me
>> >all the time.
> >
> >That issue was a classic. I recall he was trying to build a house of
> >cards. utthat dialogue get his attitutde on people and his arrogance
just
> >right.
>
>No, he was building a jigsaw puzzle... of a snail.
Yes. (-: He also solved A Rubik's Cube.
I LOVED that comic! It was X-Factor #87. YOU MUST BUY THIS COMIC!!!
Just kidding... But it IS a WONDERFUL ish... Why, oh WHY did PAD ever
leave X-Factor!?!?!?!
--
dhe...@plains.nodak.edu Old Endgame, Lost of Old
Play and Lose and have Done with Losing
The Thing
"I'm Bart Simpson- Who the hell are you?"
Thi...@AOL.com
MiSTie #71792
mark trenner
Thing70 wrote:
>
> From: dhe...@plains.nodak.edu (David R. Henry)
> Date: 24 Aug 1996 16:58:19 -0500
> Message-ID: <4vnttr$g...@plains.nodak.edu>
>
> Engineer writes:
>
> >> >I remember him saying something to someone like "y'know how it feels
> to
> >> >be behind someone in line at the supermarket that is REALLY slow and
> >> >takes for ever to count their money? well thats what it's like for me
> >> >all the time.
> > >
> > >That issue was a classic. I recall he was trying to build a house of
> > >cards. utthat dialogue get his attitutde on people and his arrogance
> just
> > >right.
> >
> >No, he was building a jigsaw puzzle... of a snail.
>
> Yes. (-: He also solved A Rubik's Cube.
> I LOVED that comic! It was X-Factor #87. YOU MUST BUY THIS COMIC!!!
> Just kidding... But it IS a WONDERFUL ish... Why, oh WHY did PAD ever
> leave X-Factor!?!?!?!
> --
>
Well if he returned he only have one person from his run on x-factor .
Jonathan Maske
Well, I see you guys have been having a PAD-Factor discussion
without me. :( (pout) Well, time to join in...
mark trenner (mtr...@newreach.net) wrote:
: Thing70 wrote:
: >
: > From: dhe...@plains.nodak.edu (David R. Henry)
: > Date: 24 Aug 1996 16:58:19 -0500
: > Message-ID: <4vnttr$g...@plains.nodak.edu>
: >
: > Engineer writes:
: >
: > >> >I remember him saying something to someone like "y'know how it feels
: > to
: > >> >be behind someone in line at the supermarket that is REALLY slow and
: > >> >takes for ever to count their money? well thats what it's like for me
: > >> >all the time.
: > > >
: > > >That issue was a classic. I recall he was trying to build a house of
: > > >cards. utthat dialogue get his attitutde on people and his arrogance
: > just
: > > >right.
Not quite the dialogue, but it gets the point across. I'm too lazy
to correct the quote tonight.
: > >No, he was building a jigsaw puzzle... of a snail.
: >
: > Yes. (-: He also solved A Rubik's Cube.
Yep. That's the *real* Pietro. :)
: > I LOVED that comic! It was X-Factor #87. YOU MUST BUY THIS COMIC!!!
: > Just kidding... But it IS a WONDERFUL ish... Why, oh WHY did PAD ever
: > leave X-Factor!?!?!?!
Because of the endless crossovers? Because he was brought on to show
what the X-Books *should* be like, then leave to have it revert to
mediocrity? (or is that mediocreness? Are those even words?)
: Well if he returned he only have one person from his run on x-factor .
Yeah, but he'd time up the Madrox and Guido plot danglers real
quick. Unbrainwash Alex too, if we're lucky.
Jon (TICK) Maske, PADvocate of the BoSPMwaA
--
"Good evening, lowly clerk. Where is your Pez?" - The Tick
"I prefer my individuality." - Quicksilver | "Everybody knows that the world
"Plasma blasts for a mayo jar? Isn't that | is full of stupid people."
a bit of over... kill?" - Val Cooper | - The Refreshments, "Banditos"