Any thoughts about BT?
Guy Gaz
I feel, I will not like it.
Hey Marvel: when will you bring Ben Reilly back into continuity?
GG
--
"Mit 12 Jahren ist man in Asien zu alt zum Teppiche knüpfen, weil die
Finger zu groß werden. Du darfst aber erst mit 14 bei Nike anfangen,
Turnschuhe zu kleben. Da entsteht eine Versorgungslücke von zwei
Jahren, die meist mit Prostitution gestopft wird." (Hagen Rether)
grinningdemon
>What do you think about that "Spider-Man: Big Time" - storyline?
>
>I feel, I will not like it.
Spiderman has been crap since One More Day.
>Hey Marvel: when will you bring Ben Reilly back into continuity?
>
>GG
He was never out of continuity...he's just dead...there was even a
story not long ago that referenced him when a villain came looking for
Peter thinking he was really Ben.
The Complete Clone Saga is also currently being collected in a series
of trade paperbacks and there was a Clone Saga mini not long ago that
was supposedly the original idea for the Clone Saga before it was
changed and expanded.
Anim8rFSK
grinningdemon <grinni...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:42:11 +0100, Guy Gaz <guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> >What do you think about that "Spider-Man: Big Time" - storyline?
> >
> >I feel, I will not like it.
>
> Spiderman has been crap since One More Day.
Some would say "Sins Past"
--
"Please, I can't die, I've never kissed an Asian woman!"
Shego on "Shat My Dad Says"
grinningdemon
wrote:
>In article <sogpi6pbmivm1if12...@4ax.com>,
> grinningdemon <grinni...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:42:11 +0100, Guy Gaz <guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>> >What do you think about that "Spider-Man: Big Time" - storyline?
>> >
>> >I feel, I will not like it.
>>
>> Spiderman has been crap since One More Day.
>
>Some would say "Sins Past"
There were still a few decent stories after Sins Past (though I agree
it was awful)...but One More Day is the kind of bad story that keeps
producing more bad stories one after the next.
Guy Gaz
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:42:11 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> What do you think about that "Spider-Man: Big Time" - storyline?
>>
>> I feel, I will not like it.
>
> Spiderman has been crap since One More Day.
IMHO the crap started earlier with Civil War and revealing SM's identity
- so the OMD crap was needed later.
>> Hey Marvel: when will you bring Ben Reilly back into continuity?
> He was never out of continuity...he's just dead...
You are right - I should have written "bring him back to life again".
> The Complete Clone Saga is also currently being collected in a series
> of trade paperbacks and there was a Clone Saga mini not long ago that
> was supposedly the original idea for the Clone Saga before it was
> changed and expanded.
I know it, but I am not sure if I want to read that "writer's cut".
Guy Gaz
> In article<sogpi6pbmivm1if12...@4ax.com>,
> grinningdemon<grinni...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:42:11 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>>> What do you think about that "Spider-Man: Big Time" - storyline?
>>>
>>> I feel, I will not like it.
>>
>> Spiderman has been crap since One More Day.
>
> Some would say "Sins Past"
That was inherited by the (economical) success of the pronlonged clone
saga. You can be the best writer or artist - if the Marketing guys tell
you what to do...
grinningdemon
>Am 11.01.2011 21:55, schrieb grinningdemon:
>> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:42:11 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>>> What do you think about that "Spider-Man: Big Time" - storyline?
>>>
>>> I feel, I will not like it.
>>
>> Spiderman has been crap since One More Day.
>
>IMHO the crap started earlier with Civil War and revealing SM's identity
>- so the OMD crap was needed later.
Sorry, but that's bullshit...they only did all that because they
already had OMD planned...if not, it never would have happened.
Guy Gaz
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:15:57 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 11.01.2011 21:55, schrieb grinningdemon:
>>> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:42:11 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What do you think about that "Spider-Man: Big Time" - storyline?
>>>>
>>>> I feel, I will not like it.
>>>
>>> Spiderman has been crap since One More Day.
>>
>> IMHO the crap started earlier with Civil War and revealing SM's identity
>> - so the OMD crap was needed later.
>
> Sorry, but that's bullshit...they only did all that because they
> already had OMD planned...
They planned OMD before CW? I don't buy that - sorry.
Any arguments for that theory?
> if not, it never would have happened.
Civil War was (the biggest) crap in many ways - one effect was, that
Spidey's identity had been revealed. IMHO they tried to 'heal' that with
OMD - and not the other way around. BND was the next failure - it took
four(?) episodes and the next person knew, that Peter is SM...
There is so much creative power in that company, but the marketing guys
destroy creativity. That is so stupid.
Warewolf
> There is so much creative power in that company, but the marketing
> guys destroy creativity. That is so stupid.
Green Guy: Stupid men hurt Hulk. HULK...
[A button is pushed]
[causing a trap door to open beneath the green behemoth's feet]
Green: ...smash?
[The green guy falls into the pit below]
Random Marketing Guy (smirking): It gets funnier every time.
Random Marketing Guy #2: How long until he figures it out?
[The room begins to shake profusely]
[before the entire building collapses to the pavement below]
[The two marketing morons groan beneath the rubble]
[before the green golaith leaps away in disgust]
[Stan Lee simply shakes his head at the whole fiasco]
grinningdemon
>Am 12.01.2011 19:19, schrieb grinningdemon:
>> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:15:57 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 11.01.2011 21:55, schrieb grinningdemon:
>>>> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:42:11 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What do you think about that "Spider-Man: Big Time" - storyline?
>>>>>
>>>>> I feel, I will not like it.
>>>>
>>>> Spiderman has been crap since One More Day.
>>>
>>> IMHO the crap started earlier with Civil War and revealing SM's identity
>>> - so the OMD crap was needed later.
>>
>> Sorry, but that's bullshit...they only did all that because they
>> already had OMD planned...
>
>They planned OMD before CW? I don't buy that - sorry.
>Any arguments for that theory?
How about the fact that they were talking about it in interviews well
before Civil War even started? (almost from the beginning of JMS's
run) That big retcon was already coming...primarily because of
Quesada's irrational hatred for the Spidey marriage...and the identity
reveal gave them a story excuse for the retcon.
>> if not, it never would have happened.
>
>Civil War was (the biggest) crap in many ways - one effect was, that
>Spidey's identity had been revealed. IMHO they tried to 'heal' that with
>OMD - and not the other way around. BND was the next failure - it took
>four(?) episodes and the next person knew, that Peter is SM...
The main reason behind OMD was to get rid of the marriage...not the
identity reveal...that was just the excuse for it.
>There is so much creative power in that company, but the marketing guys
>destroy creativity. That is so stupid.
It is stupid...but Quesada's marketing crap has largely been
commercially successful which is why his reign of terror has lasted as
long as it has.
FSogol
Alonso?
--
FSogol
YKW
news:qbrpi6ti4or4t7svk...@4ax.com:
> There were still a few decent stories after Sins Past (though I agree
> it was awful)...but One More Day is the kind of bad story that keeps
> producing more bad stories one after the next.
It's not so much that the stories themselves are bad, from what little
I've seen; it's just that the existence of the original continuity as
subtext behind the new makes it all seem... kinda skeevy. Parker hitting
on random women. Parker in one-night stands. Parker backsliding into
Felicia. Parker -actually- behaving as irresponsibly as he always had
been =perceived= to act by those not in on his secret.
Maybe that was all supposed to be some kind of meta-commentary on the
down-low about the new continuity in which the writers were forced to
work; without any of the four great moral compasses of his life on which
to lean (MJ gone, May busy gettin' busy, Gwen and Ben still -- for the
moment, anyway -- dead), Peter is rudderless, destined to live the life
of the loser he thought he only pretended to be.
Or maybe that's just the Peter that Da Cue insisted they write, without
any deep thoughts as to why...
--
------------------- ------------------------------------------------
|| E-mail: ykw2006 ||"The mystery of government is not how Washington||
|| -at-gmail-dot-com ||works but how to make it stop." -- P.J. O'Rourke||
|| ----------- || ------------------------------------ ||
||Replace "-at-" with|| Keeping Usenet Trouble-Free ||
|| "@" to respond. || Since 1998 ||
------------------- ------------------------------------------------
"It's not that I want to punish your success. [...]I think
when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
-- The One, 14 Oct 08
YKW
september.org:
> You do know that Quesada has been replaced as editor in chief by Axel
> Alonso?
Da Cue is still at the company, though, in a new position that sits above
Alonso's on the corporate chart. Joey won't be involved with either day-
to-day operations or most of the big-story confabs any longer, but he'll
still be there to bring the hammer down on any effort to fix the damage
he caused.
grinningdemon
wrote:
But he's not gone...and nothing is being reversed as of yet.
grinningdemon
>grinningdemon <grinni...@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>news:qbrpi6ti4or4t7svk...@4ax.com:
>
>> There were still a few decent stories after Sins Past (though I agree
>> it was awful)...but One More Day is the kind of bad story that keeps
>> producing more bad stories one after the next.
>
>It's not so much that the stories themselves are bad, from what little
>I've seen; it's just that the existence of the original continuity as
>subtext behind the new makes it all seem... kinda skeevy. Parker hitting
>on random women. Parker in one-night stands. Parker backsliding into
>Felicia. Parker -actually- behaving as irresponsibly as he always had
>been =perceived= to act by those not in on his secret.
I guess I would agree with that for more recent stories...and that
really is the worst part...the treatment of the classic characters
(and not just Peter being a total loser)...Felicia essentially being
reset to the 70s...MJ alternating between bitch and slut...Harry
basically turning into the movie version...May gettin' busy, as you
described it...there have been some redeeming features of Brand New
Day in some of the NEW characters created and a few decent story ideas
(most of which didn't require the retcon at all) but the early part of
Brand New Day was just garbage across the board...the stories were
lame and the new villains were lame and almost completely derivative
of existing villains.
>Maybe that was all supposed to be some kind of meta-commentary on the
>down-low about the new continuity in which the writers were forced to
>work; without any of the four great moral compasses of his life on which
>to lean (MJ gone, May busy gettin' busy, Gwen and Ben still -- for the
>moment, anyway -- dead), Peter is rudderless, destined to live the life
>of the loser he thought he only pretended to be.
>
>Or maybe that's just the Peter that Da Cue insisted they write, without
>any deep thoughts as to why...
Am I the only one that's noticed that, whenever Quesada draws Peter
these days, he seems to put his own face on him...it's creepy...on a
side note, they did one of those blank sketch covers recently and I've
asked an artist friend of mine to draw Spidey beating the crap out of
Quesada.
Guy Gaz
I guess he does. But Quesada's new position means, that he has
responsibilites in being 'creative' for Marvel in other media than
comic books - the effect could be worse...
Anim8rFSK
YKW <Y...@YKW.YKW> wrote:
> Parker backsliding into
> Felicia.
I believe that's still illegal in several southern states.
Guy Gaz
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 22:39:52 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 12.01.2011 19:19, schrieb grinningdemon:
>>> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:15:57 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 11.01.2011 21:55, schrieb grinningdemon:
>>>>> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:42:11 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think about that "Spider-Man: Big Time" - storyline?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I feel, I will not like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spiderman has been crap since One More Day.
>>>>
>>>> IMHO the crap started earlier with Civil War and revealing SM's identity
>>>> - so the OMD crap was needed later.
>>>
>>> Sorry, but that's bullshit...they only did all that because they
>>> already had OMD planned...
>>
>> They planned OMD before CW? I don't buy that - sorry.
>> Any arguments for that theory?
>
> How about the fact that they were talking about it in interviews well
> before Civil War even started?
I do not know these interviews. I am not telling you' re wrong - I just
did not know about that.
> (almost from the beginning of JMS's run) That big retcon was already
> coming...primarily because of Quesada's irrational hatred for the
> Spidey marriage...
Maybe - I knew that Quesada was not happy with a married Spider-Man -
although most of the fans loved the MJ character and her relationship
with Peter.
> and the identity reveal gave them a story excuse for the retcon.
Repeating myself: you may be on the right way with that;-)
After OMD there was nothing, that could fascinate a SM fan again - even
NWTD was a desaster. I gave the ASM series several chances to surprise
me - well they did..
>>> if not, it never would have happened.
>>
>> Civil War was (the biggest) crap in many ways - one effect was, that
>> Spidey's identity had been revealed. IMHO they tried to 'heal' that with
>> OMD - and not the other way around. BND was the next failure - it took
>> four(?) episodes and the next person knew, that Peter is SM...
>
> The main reason behind OMD was to get rid of the marriage...not the
> identity reveal...that was just the excuse for it.
May be - I do remember how often they had to set back the timeline for
the last two parts of OMD. That's why I am sceptical, that they had
planned all all it in detail so long ago.
>> There is so much creative power in that company, but the marketing guys
>> destroy creativity. That is so stupid.
>
> It is stupid...but Quesada's marketing crap has largely been
> commercially successful which is why his reign of terror has lasted as
> long as it has.
That is what I mean - you can destroy Spider-Man as long as they books
are being sold. The success of the SM 1-3 movies may have taken a lot of
new readers to the books, who are not interested in the old books.
Bad news: now Quesada has more influence on (to?*) that movie stuff and
the reprentation in other media.
GG
(*) I am french - I am always uncertain in English grammar
Guy Gaz
> Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote in news:igl73b$7lb$02$1...@news.t-online.com:
>
>> There is so much creative power in that company, but the marketing
>> guys destroy creativity. That is so stupid.
>
> Green Guy: Stupid men hurt Hulk. HULK...
What a funny kid you are;-)
To clarify that: my name's Guy ['Gee'] - has nothing to do with a "guy"
- it's french.
grinningdemon
Fan reaction to the marriage is actually mixed...some like it (like
myself), others hate it...but even the people who wanted to see the
marriage go hated the way it was done...I've never heard anyone say
they liked OMD.
>> and the identity reveal gave them a story excuse for the retcon.
>
>Repeating myself: you may be on the right way with that;-)
>
>After OMD there was nothing, that could fascinate a SM fan again - even
>NWTD was a desaster. I gave the ASM series several chances to surprise
>me - well they did..
>
>>>> if not, it never would have happened.
>>>
>>> Civil War was (the biggest) crap in many ways - one effect was, that
>>> Spidey's identity had been revealed. IMHO they tried to 'heal' that with
>>> OMD - and not the other way around. BND was the next failure - it took
>>> four(?) episodes and the next person knew, that Peter is SM...
>>
>> The main reason behind OMD was to get rid of the marriage...not the
>> identity reveal...that was just the excuse for it.
>
>May be - I do remember how often they had to set back the timeline for
>the last two parts of OMD. That's why I am sceptical, that they had
>planned all all it in detail so long ago.
The idea of the retcon was planned long in advance...not the details
of the story setting it up...I highly doubt they'd been planning for
Peter to make a deal with the devil for years in advance...apparently,
there was a lot of disagreement on this and Quesada ended up
re-writing much of it himself...part of the reason JMS supposedly
wanted his name taken off it.
Warewolf
> What a funny kid you are;-)
I'm over 3 1/2 decades old (pushing four). *^_^*
> To clarify that: my name's Guy ['Gee'] - has nothing to do with a "guy"
> - it's french.
I could have a field day with that but I won't. ~_^
In any event, welcome to the asylum. I hope you enjoy your stay. ^_^
Signed,
Warewolf
who speaks softly but carries a *BIG* schtick.
Tim Turnip
<grinni...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>Fan reaction to the marriage is actually mixed...some like it (like
>myself), others hate it...but even the people who wanted to see the
>marriage go hated the way it was done...I've never heard anyone say
>they liked OMD.
I thought the Mephisto plot device itself was stupid -- but I was
totally okay with having the marriage erased via some kind of
continuity reboot.
grinningdemon
wrote:
I wish I was standing next to you so I could slap you upside the head.
Warewolf
news:01d0j6hr03do4m49p...@4ax.com:
> I thought the Mephisto plot device itself was stupid -- but I was
> totally okay with having the marriage erased via some kind of
> continuity reboot.
*imagines Mary Jane being literally erased from her feet upward*
MJ: Uh Peter...Help?
Peter: MJ?
*...just before she disappears*
*without even a trace of eraser gremlins*
Peter: MJ!!!
*gives his head a shake*
Guy Gaz
> Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote in news:ignn6r$66q$02$1...@news.t-online.com:
>
>> What a funny kid you are;-)
>
> I'm over 3 1/2 decades old (pushing four). *^_^*
Ok - Kid;-) I am in my fifth decade.
>> To clarify that: my name's Guy ['Gee'] - has nothing to do with a "guy"
>> - it's french.
>
> I could have a field day with that but I won't. ~_^
Feel free to let me know, what you mean - I can stand it.
> In any event, welcome to the asylum. I hope you enjoy your stay. ^_^
It's always a pleasure to be in here.
> who speaks softly but carries a *BIG* schtick.
Well - as a french Guy|guy living in Germany since 1976 I would
appreciate to hear you saying "schtick".
In french the original word (Stück) could be pronounced as "schtuck" -
please don't get stuck.
I do not know a single English Word, that is to be spoken as this
mutated vowel(ü), that sounds like the french 'u'. It derives from 'ue',
btw.
grinningdemon
>Am 14.01.2011 04:35, schrieb Warewolf:
>> Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote in news:ignn6r$66q$02$1...@news.t-online.com:
>>
>>> What a funny kid you are;-)
>>
>> I'm over 3 1/2 decades old (pushing four). *^_^*
>
>Ok - Kid;-) I am in my fifth decade.
>
>>> To clarify that: my name's Guy ['Gee'] - has nothing to do with a "guy"
>>> - it's french.
>>
>> I could have a field day with that but I won't. ~_^
>
>Feel free to let me know, what you mean - I can stand it.
>
>> In any event, welcome to the asylum. I hope you enjoy your stay. ^_^
>
>It's always a pleasure to be in here.
>
>> who speaks softly but carries a *BIG* schtick.
>
>Well - as a french Guy|guy living in Germany since 1976 I would
>appreciate to hear you saying "schtick".
>In french the original word (Stück) could be pronounced as "schtuck" -
>please don't get stuck.
>
>I do not know a single English Word, that is to be spoken as this
>mutated vowel(ü), that sounds like the french 'u'. It derives from 'ue',
>btw.
Thanks for the linguistics lesson...but this group is about
comics...we only speak broken english here.
Guy Gaz
I loved the marriage - I liked most of SM until they destroyed it with CW.
> others hate it...but even the people who wanted to see the
> marriage go hated the way it was done...I've never heard anyone say
> they liked OMD.
OMD! My first thought was: please let go aunt May now - in peace. I knew
this was not going to happen...
We had seen her die before. Do you know how many times she died, before?
>>> and the identity reveal gave them a story excuse for the retcon.
>>
>> Repeating myself: you may be on the right way with that;-)
>>
>> After OMD there was nothing, that could fascinate a SM fan again - even
>> NWTD was a desaster. I gave the ASM series several chances to surprise
>> me - well they did..
>>
>>>>> if not, it never would have happened.
>>>>
>>>> Civil War was (the biggest) crap in many ways - one effect was, that
>>>> Spidey's identity had been revealed. IMHO they tried to 'heal' that with
>>>> OMD - and not the other way around. BND was the next failure - it took
>>>> four(?) episodes and the next person knew, that Peter is SM...
>>>
>>> The main reason behind OMD was to get rid of the marriage...not the
>>> identity reveal...that was just the excuse for it.
>>
>> May be - I do remember how often they had to set back the timeline for
>> the last two parts of OMD. That's why I am sceptical, that they had
>> planned all all it in detail so long ago.
>
> The idea of the retcon was planned long in advance...not the details
> of the story setting it up...
That is the point I was trying to talk about - the details.
> I highly doubt they'd been planning for
> Peter to make a deal with the devil for years in advance...
That Mephisto thingy was a former idea - planned during the clone saga -
and it was bad. I guess you know this:
http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/
> apparently, there was a lot of disagreement on this and Quesada ended up
> re-writing much of it himself...part of the reason JMS supposedly
> wanted his name taken off it.
Yes. Of course.
GG
grinningdemon
I love the marriage too...I think it was the natural progression for
the character...I can't say I always liked the way it was handled...or
even that I liked the way it happened in the first place...but I liked
the idea of it...and still do...for me, Spidey died in OMD.
> > others hate it...but even the people who wanted to see the
>> marriage go hated the way it was done...I've never heard anyone say
>> they liked OMD.
>
>OMD! My first thought was: please let go aunt May now - in peace. I knew
>this was not going to happen...
>We had seen her die before. Do you know how many times she died, before?
It would have been so much better if they let her die...it was a good
note for her to punch out on after learning Peter's secret and
all...and those stories were the one and only time May was ever
interesting as a character and they retconned it all out and made
Peter a total loser again by having him sponge off her like he was a
teenager again.
I know she's had a lot of close calls, but I thought her only actual
death was in ASM #400.
>>>> and the identity reveal gave them a story excuse for the retcon.
>>>
>>> Repeating myself: you may be on the right way with that;-)
>>>
>>> After OMD there was nothing, that could fascinate a SM fan again - even
>>> NWTD was a desaster. I gave the ASM series several chances to surprise
>>> me - well they did..
>>>
>>>>>> if not, it never would have happened.
>>>>>
>>>>> Civil War was (the biggest) crap in many ways - one effect was, that
>>>>> Spidey's identity had been revealed. IMHO they tried to 'heal' that with
>>>>> OMD - and not the other way around. BND was the next failure - it took
>>>>> four(?) episodes and the next person knew, that Peter is SM...
>>>>
>>>> The main reason behind OMD was to get rid of the marriage...not the
>>>> identity reveal...that was just the excuse for it.
>>>
>>> May be - I do remember how often they had to set back the timeline for
>>> the last two parts of OMD. That's why I am sceptical, that they had
>>> planned all all it in detail so long ago.
>>
>> The idea of the retcon was planned long in advance...not the details
>> of the story setting it up...
>
>That is the point I was trying to talk about - the details.
No...you said they had to do the retcon because of civil war...I said
the only reason did what they did in civil war was because they were
already going to do the retcon.
>> I highly doubt they'd been planning for
>> Peter to make a deal with the devil for years in advance...
>
>That Mephisto thingy was a former idea - planned during the clone saga -
>and it was bad. I guess you know this:
>
>http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/
Yeah, I knew it was one of the ideas flying around during the clone
saga...there was even a one-shot that parodied them called "1001 Ways
to end the Clone Saga" or something like that...what was stupid then
is still stupid now.
Guy Gaz
Oh - I think you got me wrong.
> but this group is about
> comics...we only speak broken english here.
Fine .. by me.
grinningdemon
See...now you're catching on.
Guy Gaz
> See...now you're catching on.
ok.
GG
--
“Ich habe viel mit Mario Basler gemeinsam.
Wir sind beide Fußballer, wir trinken beide gerne mal einen,
ich allerdings erst nach der Arbeit.” - F.M.
Guy Gaz
What else should I write? I totally agree.
>>> others hate it...but even the people who wanted to see the
>>> marriage go hated the way it was done...I've never heard anyone say
>>> they liked OMD.
>>
>> OMD! My first thought was: please let go aunt May now - in peace. I knew
>> this was not going to happen...
>> We had seen her die before. Do you know how many times she died, before?
>
> It would have been so much better if they let her die...
Yes! IMHO they should have done it - in the first place. But They came
back with a silly story.
> it was a good note for her to punch out on after learning Peter's secret and
> all...
But she "died" before.
> and those stories were the one and only time May was ever
> interesting as a character
Aunt May was always an interesting character, she had so much influence
to Peter's Life!
> and they retconned it
At least twice!
> all out and made Peter a total loser again by having him sponge off her like he was a
> teenager again.
But why? They had a teenage Spider-Man in the Ultimate Universe - really
cool stories written by Bendis, btw. I liked that USM stuff.
> I know she's had a lot of close calls, but I thought her only actual
> death was in ASM #400.
She "died" years before ASM#400.
>>>>> and the identity reveal gave them a story excuse for the retcon.
>>>>
>>>> Repeating myself: you may be on the right way with that;-)
>>>>
>>>> After OMD there was nothing, that could fascinate a SM fan again - even
>>>> NWTD was a desaster. I gave the ASM series several chances to surprise
>>>> me - well they did..
>>>>
>>>>>>> if not, it never would have happened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Civil War was (the biggest) crap in many ways - one effect was, that
>>>>>> Spidey's identity had been revealed. IMHO they tried to 'heal' that with
>>>>>> OMD - and not the other way around. BND was the next failure - it took
>>>>>> four(?) episodes and the next person knew, that Peter is SM...
>>>>>
>>>>> The main reason behind OMD was to get rid of the marriage...not the
>>>>> identity reveal...that was just the excuse for it.
>>>>
>>>> May be - I do remember how often they had to set back the timeline for
>>>> the last two parts of OMD. That's why I am sceptical, that they had
>>>> planned all all it in detail so long ago.
>>>
>>> The idea of the retcon was planned long in advance...not the details
>>> of the story setting it up...
>>
>> That is the point I was trying to talk about - the details.
>
> No...you said they had to do the retcon because of civil war...
Nope! I wrote, that Civil War started the beginning of Marvel getting
worse. The main problem started with CW. They needed ideas.
> I said the only reason did what they did in civil war was because they were
> already going to do the retcon.
You did. But I do not think, they let Steve Rogers die, because that
retcon had to be done.
>>> I highly doubt they'd been planning for
>>> Peter to make a deal with the devil for years in advance...
>>
>> That Mephisto thingy was a former idea - planned during the clone saga -
>> and it was bad. I guess you know this:
>>
>> http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/
>
> Yeah, I knew it was one of the ideas flying around during the clone
> saga...there was even a one-shot that parodied them called "1001 Ways
> to end the Clone Saga" or something like that...what was stupid then
> is still stupid now.
It is not so stupid, if you think about that!
>>> apparently, there was a lot of disagreement on this and Quesada ended up
>>> re-writing much of it himself...part of the reason JMS supposedly
>>> wanted his name taken off it.
BTW: did I say, that I really liked 'clone saga'?
GG
--
�Ich habe viel mit Mario Basler gemeinsam.
Wir sind beide Fu�baller, wir trinken beide gerne mal einen,
ich allerdings erst nach der Arbeit.� - F.M.
grinningdemon
She was NEVER an interesting character...she was a plot
device...someone for Peter to worry about and burden him and
occasionally point out what a loser he is...she never had any
interesting storylines of her own until JMS had her find out Peter's
secret.
>> and they retconned it
>
>At least twice!
I meant they retconned out the really good stories where she learned
Peter's secret and struggled to deal with it.
>> all out and made Peter a total loser again by having him sponge off her like he was a
>> teenager again.
>
>But why? They had a teenage Spider-Man in the Ultimate Universe - really
>cool stories written by Bendis, btw. I liked that USM stuff.
Ultimate Spidey was good until the relaunch...now it's crap...Bendis
is obviously out of ideas.
>> I know she's had a lot of close calls, but I thought her only actual
>> death was in ASM #400.
>
>She "died" years before ASM#400.
When?
I didn't mean the whole event was planned for the retcon...I meant
Spidey only revealed his identity to the world in Civil War because
they were already planning the retcon.
>>>> I highly doubt they'd been planning for
>>>> Peter to make a deal with the devil for years in advance...
>>>
>>> That Mephisto thingy was a former idea - planned during the clone saga -
>>> and it was bad. I guess you know this:
>>>
>>> http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Yeah, I knew it was one of the ideas flying around during the clone
>> saga...there was even a one-shot that parodied them called "1001 Ways
>> to end the Clone Saga" or something like that...what was stupid then
>> is still stupid now.
>
>It is not so stupid, if you think about that!
One of the most moral and responsible heroes in comics essentially
making a deal with the devil is always a stupid idea.
>>>> apparently, there was a lot of disagreement on this and Quesada ended up
>>>> re-writing much of it himself...part of the reason JMS supposedly
>>>> wanted his name taken off it.
>
>
>BTW: did I say, that I really liked 'clone saga'?
I figured.
Guy Gaz
*That* made her an interesting character;-)
I liked this old Spidey stuff, if I liked perfect main characters, I
would have read more Superman..
> ...she never had any interesting storylines of her own until JMS
> had her find out Peter's secret.
Ooh: she almost married Doc Ock - Spidey's first super villain (!) in
ASM 131. The man who btw. had kidnapped(? not sure) and injured her in
ASM 54.
>>> and they retconned it
>>
>> At least twice!
>
> I meant they retconned out the really good stories where she learned
> Peter's secret and struggled to deal with it.
They did.
>>> all out and made Peter a total loser again by having him sponge off her like he was a
>>> teenager again.
>>
>> But why? They had a teenage Spider-Man in the Ultimate Universe - really
>> cool stories written by Bendis, btw. I liked that USM stuff.
>
> Ultimate Spidey was good until the relaunch...now it's crap...Bendis
> is obviously out of ideas.
I haven't read a single book of the "new" USM stuff, so I can't judge it.
>>> I know she's had a lot of close calls, but I thought her only actual
>>> death was in ASM #400.
>>
>> She "died" years before ASM#400.
>
> When?
ASM 196 - I remember when I read the book. It had been 'kind of
retconned' - because of massive fan mails - and "sold" as a mistake.
I know;-)
Marvel is a strange company - you will never know what will happen -
most of the time, they do not know. How could we?
> I meant Spidey only revealed his identity to the world in Civil War
> because they were already planning the retcon.
Maybe. They had plans to divorce MJ and Peter, or retconn the marriage
before, during and after the clone saga.
So in post-Civil-War they finally did it.
>>>>> I highly doubt they'd been planning for
>>>>> Peter to make a deal with the devil for years in advance...
>>>>
>>>> That Mephisto thingy was a former idea - planned during the clone saga -
>>>> and it was bad. I guess you know this:
>>>>
>>>> http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> Yeah, I knew it was one of the ideas flying around during the clone
>>> saga...there was even a one-shot that parodied them called "1001 Ways
>>> to end the Clone Saga" or something like that...what was stupid then
>>> is still stupid now.
>>
>> It is not so stupid, if you think about that!
>
> One of the most moral and responsible heroes in comics essentially
> making a deal with the devil is always a stupid idea.
MJ made the (real) deal, not Peter. But the Mephisto thingy is gone for
now.
>>>>> apparently, there was a lot of disagreement on this and Quesada ended up
>>>>> re-writing much of it himself...part of the reason JMS supposedly
>>>>> wanted his name taken off it.
>>
>>
>> BTW: did I say, that I really liked 'clone saga'?
>
> I figured.
Ok.
GG
--
“Ich habe viel mit Mario Basler gemeinsam.
Wir sind beide Fußballer, wir trinken beide gerne mal einen,
ich allerdings erst nach der Arbeit.” - F.M.
Guy Gaz
> In article<Xns9E6C7E0AE32F7...@69.16.186.8>,
> YKW<Y...@YKW.YKW> wrote:
>
>> Parker backsliding into
>> Felicia.
>
> I believe that's still illegal in several southern states.
Really? Holy crap.
What about the farmers who force their animals to do so?
STRATEGY
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE BEHAVIORAL TARGETTING
Thanks,
STRATEGY
grinningdemon
>> She was NEVER an interesting character...she was a plot
>> device...someone for Peter to worry about and burden him and
>> occasionally point out what a loser he is
>
>*That* made her an interesting character;-)
>I liked this old Spidey stuff, if I liked perfect main characters, I
>would have read more Superman..
I like the old Spidey stories too...but May was never anything more
than a plot device to be a burden on Peter...she was never developed
as a character in her own right before JMS and then they retconned
that out.
>> ...she never had any interesting storylines of her own until JMS
> > had her find out Peter's secret.
>
>Ooh: she almost married Doc Ock - Spidey's first super villain (!) in
>ASM 131. The man who btw. had kidnapped(? not sure) and injured her in
>ASM 54.
The focus of all of these stories was on how it affected Peter...not
on May herself...as I said, she's a plot device to cause trouble for
Peter...and occasionally make him look more pathetic.
Quesada has an irrational hatred for the spider-marriage and started
plotting its demise almost from the moment he took over.
>>>>>> I highly doubt they'd been planning for
>>>>>> Peter to make a deal with the devil for years in advance...
>>>>>
>>>>> That Mephisto thingy was a former idea - planned during the clone saga -
>>>>> and it was bad. I guess you know this:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I knew it was one of the ideas flying around during the clone
>>>> saga...there was even a one-shot that parodied them called "1001 Ways
>>>> to end the Clone Saga" or something like that...what was stupid then
>>>> is still stupid now.
>>>
>>> It is not so stupid, if you think about that!
>>
>> One of the most moral and responsible heroes in comics essentially
>> making a deal with the devil is always a stupid idea.
>
>MJ made the (real) deal, not Peter. But the Mephisto thingy is gone for
>now.
That's the same cop-out Quesada tried selling us in interviews...blame
it all on MJ...Peter is far too moral to make a deal with the
devil...I call bullshit on that one...regardless of who suggested it,
Peter went along with it...which not only means he made a deal with
the devil but the way they played it (trying to shift the blame to MJ)
also made him look weak and pathetic.
And I know they've given us a "revised" version of OMD now...which is
almost as lame as the original...they're just piling retcon on top of
retcon and fucking up Spidey's history more and more in the process.
Guy Gaz
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 21:10:57 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>>> She was NEVER an interesting character...she was a plot
>>> device...someone for Peter to worry about and burden him and
>>> occasionally point out what a loser he is
>>
>> *That* made her an interesting character;-)
>> I liked this old Spidey stuff, if I liked perfect main characters, I
>> would have read more Superman..
>
> I like the old Spidey stories too...but May was never anything more
> than a plot device to be a burden on Peter...she was never developed
> as a character in her own right before JMS and then they retconned
> that out.
Let me try to get that in the direction I wanted to go: who else, but
May could have been used for that?
I do not want to read a book focussing on May - she is a sidekick, a
good one! IMHO a more important sidekick than at least 50% of
Spiderman's foes.
>>> ...she never had any interesting storylines of her own until JMS
>>> had her find out Peter's secret.
>>
>> Ooh: she almost married Doc Ock - Spidey's first super villain (!) in
>> ASM 131. The man who btw. had kidnapped(? not sure) and injured her in
>> ASM 54.
>
> The focus of all of these stories was on how it affected Peter...
Of course - the title has never been "May Parker, fantasic aunt"
> not on May herself...as I said, she's a plot device to cause trouble for
> Peter...
I agree - It may be due to my limited knowledge of the English language,
that I fail in telling you what I mean to say.
> and occasionally make him look more pathetic.
Pathetic, come on!
May is his greatest weakness - Peter is still feeling responsable for
his uncle's death. To be honest: he is!
I could "feel" his pain during the first half of OMD - forget about the 2nd.
I do agree, that Quesada hates "husband Spider-Man" - btw: I started
this thread about BT, we are stuck on OMD/BND - OMIT stuff;-)
>>>>>>> I highly doubt they'd been planning for
>>>>>>> Peter to make a deal with the devil for years in advance...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That Mephisto thingy was a former idea - planned during the clone saga -
>>>>>> and it was bad. I guess you know this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I knew it was one of the ideas flying around during the clone
>>>>> saga...there was even a one-shot that parodied them called "1001 Ways
>>>>> to end the Clone Saga" or something like that...what was stupid then
>>>>> is still stupid now.
>>>>
>>>> It is not so stupid, if you think about that!
>>>
>>> One of the most moral and responsible heroes in comics essentially
>>> making a deal with the devil is always a stupid idea.
>>
>> MJ made the (real) deal, not Peter. But the Mephisto thingy is gone for
>> now.
>
> That's the same cop-out Quesada tried selling us in interviews...blame
> it all on MJ...Peter is far too moral to make a deal with the
> devil...I call bullshit on that one...
Hey - I am a 100% by your side!
But the sales seem to be good. Holy shit!
> regardless of who suggested it,
> Peter went along with it...which not only means he made a deal with
> the devil but the way they played it (trying to shift the blame to MJ)
> also made him look weak and pathetic.
Spooky thingy: I have to agree again!
> And I know they've given us a "revised" version of OMD now...which is
> almost as lame as the original...
Almost as? It is fucking - at least - ten times worse!
> they're just piling retcon on top of
> retcon and fucking up Spidey's history more and more in the process.
My apprehension: if they come through with that stuff, they can do
*whatever* they do. Kids will be buying the books.
Here in Germany(*) we have to pay 4 € - nearly 5,5 $ for a book.
Let's retcon the retcon of the retcon... in a loop - I just left ASM.
God knows - I will be back reading ASM, but I hope to read better stuff!
grinningdemon: it is really a pleasure for me to talk with you - thank
you for that!
(*) just to clarify: I am french, living in Germany since the early 70ies..
grinningdemon
>Am 21.01.2011 21:10, schrieb grinningdemon:
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 21:10:57 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>>>> She was NEVER an interesting character...she was a plot
>>>> device...someone for Peter to worry about and burden him and
>>>> occasionally point out what a loser he is
>>>
>>> *That* made her an interesting character;-)
>>> I liked this old Spidey stuff, if I liked perfect main characters, I
>>> would have read more Superman..
>>
>> I like the old Spidey stories too...but May was never anything more
>> than a plot device to be a burden on Peter...she was never developed
>> as a character in her own right before JMS and then they retconned
>> that out.
>
>Let me try to get that in the direction I wanted to go: who else, but
>May could have been used for that?
You are actually making my point for me by saying she was "used for
that."
>I do not want to read a book focussing on May - she is a sidekick, a
>good one! IMHO a more important sidekick than at least 50% of
>Spiderman's foes.
She's not a sidekick...she's an anchor...every other long-term
Spiderman supporting player (JJJ, MJ, Flash, Harry, etc.) has had
stories that focused specifically not them...not just on something
they do (or that is done to them) that affects Peter...but stories
that were actually about other characters...May has almost NEVER had
that...until JMS had her find out the secret...it's the first time
they ever made her an interesting character in her own right.
>>>> ...she never had any interesting storylines of her own until JMS
>>>> had her find out Peter's secret.
>>>
>>> Ooh: she almost married Doc Ock - Spidey's first super villain (!) in
>>> ASM 131. The man who btw. had kidnapped(? not sure) and injured her in
>>> ASM 54.
>>
>> The focus of all of these stories was on how it affected Peter...
>
>Of course - the title has never been "May Parker, fantasic aunt"
>
>
>> not on May herself...as I said, she's a plot device to cause trouble for
>> Peter...
>
>I agree - It may be due to my limited knowledge of the English language,
>that I fail in telling you what I mean to say.
>
>> and occasionally make him look more pathetic.
>
>Pathetic, come on!
When a grown man with a college education can't pay his rent on time
and keeps having to move back in with his elderly aunt...that's
pathetic.
Any discussion of any Spiderman story after OMD always comes back to
OMD...it's one of those crappy stories that just keeps on crapping on
later stories.
>>>>>>>> I highly doubt they'd been planning for
>>>>>>>> Peter to make a deal with the devil for years in advance...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That Mephisto thingy was a former idea - planned during the clone saga -
>>>>>>> and it was bad. I guess you know this:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, I knew it was one of the ideas flying around during the clone
>>>>>> saga...there was even a one-shot that parodied them called "1001 Ways
>>>>>> to end the Clone Saga" or something like that...what was stupid then
>>>>>> is still stupid now.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not so stupid, if you think about that!
>>>>
>>>> One of the most moral and responsible heroes in comics essentially
>>>> making a deal with the devil is always a stupid idea.
>>>
>>> MJ made the (real) deal, not Peter. But the Mephisto thingy is gone for
>>> now.
>>
>> That's the same cop-out Quesada tried selling us in interviews...blame
>> it all on MJ...Peter is far too moral to make a deal with the
>> devil...I call bullshit on that one...
>
>Hey - I am a 100% by your side!
>But the sales seem to be good. Holy shit!
Spiderman always sells...the sales aren't any better than before OMD
and, if they are, it's only because Amazing always sells better than
the other spider-titles so cancelling them in favor of extra issues of
amazing was a total sales gimmick.
> > regardless of who suggested it,
>> Peter went along with it...which not only means he made a deal with
>> the devil but the way they played it (trying to shift the blame to MJ)
>> also made him look weak and pathetic.
>
>Spooky thingy: I have to agree again!
>
>
>> And I know they've given us a "revised" version of OMD now...which is
>> almost as lame as the original...
>
>Almost as? It is fucking - at least - ten times worse!
No...it's not worse...it may be just as lame but at least it doesn't
require Peter to do something so totally UNheroic as to make a deal
with the devil.
>> they're just piling retcon on top of
>> retcon and fucking up Spidey's history more and more in the process.
>
>My apprehension: if they come through with that stuff, they can do
>*whatever* they do. Kids will be buying the books.
They have another line of books for kids...the Marvel Adventures
line...there is a Spiderman book in that line.
>Here in Germany(*) we have to pay 4 € - nearly 5,5 $ for a book.
They are $3.99 here.
>Let's retcon the retcon of the retcon... in a loop - I just left ASM.
>
>God knows - I will be back reading ASM, but I hope to read better stuff!
I'm a glutton for punishment...as a long time collector, I just
haven't been able to stop myself from getting the book to keep my
collection up...but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
>grinningdemon: it is really a pleasure for me to talk with you - thank
>you for that!
Back at you.
Lilith
<grinni...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>And I know they've given us a "revised" version of OMD now...which is
>almost as lame as the original...they're just piling retcon on top of
>retcon and fucking up Spidey's history more and more in the process.
Actually I don't think that's a retcon. I think that's the way
Mephisto is making both Peter and MJ unaware of the real circumstances
of their never-happened marriage. He imposed false memories in them.
Magically.
The whole concept is totally ridiculous since Mephisto was trying to
create angst that a once-in-a-millenium meant-to-be marriage never
happened. But if Peter and MJ don't remember their former marriage
where's the angst.
Now, if Peter remembers that Reed Richards was part of the process
that made everyone forget, why didn't he mention it to Reed when the
FF started quizzing him as to why they couldn't remember his secret ID
and he told them.
--
Lilith
Anim8rFSK
grinningdemon
wrote:
It might as well be a retcon since Quesada is never going to let them
remember what actually happened because it would mean acknowledging
the marriage.
Anim8rFSK
Lilith
But Quesada isn't going to be there forever. He could be replaced by
someone with a brain.
--
Lilith
grinningdemon
Guy Gaz
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 22:27:34 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 21.01.2011 21:10, schrieb grinningdemon:
>>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 21:10:57 +0100, Guy Gaz<guy...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> She was NEVER an interesting character...she was a plot
>>>>> device...someone for Peter to worry about and burden him and
>>>>> occasionally point out what a loser he is
>>>>
>>>> *That* made her an interesting character;-)
>>>> I liked this old Spidey stuff, if I liked perfect main characters, I
>>>> would have read more Superman..
>>>
>>> I like the old Spidey stories too...but May was never anything more
>>> than a plot device to be a burden on Peter...she was never developed
>>> as a character in her own right before JMS and then they retconned
>>> that out.
>>
>> Let me try to get that in the direction I wanted to go: who else, but
>> May could have been used for that?
>
> You are actually making my point for me by saying she was "used for
> that."
I did - focussed that later, sorry.
>> I do not want to read a book focussing on May - she is a sidekick, a
>> good one! IMHO a more important sidekick than at least 50% of
>> Spiderman's foes.
>
> She's not a sidekick...she's an anchor...every other long-term
> Spiderman supporting player (JJJ, MJ, Flash, Harry, etc.) has had
> stories that focused specifically not them...not just on something
> they do (or that is done to them) that affects Peter...but stories
> that were actually about other characters...May has almost NEVER had
> that...until JMS had her find out the secret...it's the first time
> they ever made her an interesting character in her own right.
That depends on definition, but I got your point.
BTW: I was more than surprised to see, what they did with Flash after
OMD - for us in Europe it was kind of war propaganda. I do not know how
Americans felt about that..
>>>>> ...she never had any interesting storylines of her own until JMS
>>>>> had her find out Peter's secret.
>>>>
>>>> Ooh: she almost married Doc Ock - Spidey's first super villain (!) in
>>>> ASM 131. The man who btw. had kidnapped(? not sure) and injured her in
>>>> ASM 54.
>>>
>>> The focus of all of these stories was on how it affected Peter...
>>
>> Of course - the title has never been "May Parker, fantasic aunt"
>>
>>
>>> not on May herself...as I said, she's a plot device to cause trouble for
>>> Peter...
>>
>> I agree - It may be due to my limited knowledge of the English language,
>> that I fail in telling you what I mean to say.
>>
>>> and occasionally make him look more pathetic.
>>
>> Pathetic, come on!
>
> When a grown man with a college education can't pay his rent on time
> and keeps having to move back in with his elderly aunt...that's
> pathetic.
That is happening in real life, daily - but it has destroyed another
part of Peter Parker's character.
I am reading that stuff since 1974 and I will go on reading it. There is
a german saying: "Hope will die last".
>>> That's the same cop-out Quesada tried selling us in interviews...blame
>>> it all on MJ...Peter is far too moral to make a deal with the
>>> devil...I call bullshit on that one...
>>
>> Hey - I am a 100% by your side!
>> But the sales seem to be good. Holy shit!
>
> Spiderman always sells...the sales aren't any better than before OMD
> and, if they are, it's only because Amazing always sells better than
> the other spider-titles so cancelling them in favor of extra issues of
> amazing was a total sales gimmick.
ASM was the original - other titles were sold, when they did the right
stuff;-)
I was happy, when they started PPSM - it started in 1979 for us in
Germany, as a TB with four PPSM titles and four titles of Hulk, Thor,
Iron-Man or X-Men. We had a lack of six to seven years.
Long story short: we had AF 15, ASM 1-136 printed as "die Spinne" ('the
spider') 1-137. After that there was a break - 1980 another company
started with the TB I mentioned above and the first issue of ASM as
regular comic book - ASM 150!
They stole us 138 - 149 - including the original clone saga!
Issue 1 started with Spider-Man getting off his clone - we had been left
by being Harry the Green Goblin before in ASM 137!
In the TB Harry went back to PP's life earlier - I was kind of pissed
of. At that time I started to get the original books. In Bochum (German
city) there were several shops selling the books I needed to read. But:
they never sold ASM 138 - 149. At this time - the early 80s I had to do
my school stuff..
>>> regardless of who suggested it,
>>> Peter went along with it...which not only means he made a deal with
>>> the devil but the way they played it (trying to shift the blame to MJ)
>>> also made him look weak and pathetic.
>>
>> Spooky thingy: I have to agree again!
>>
>>
>>> And I know they've given us a "revised" version of OMD now...which is
>>> almost as lame as the original...
>>
>> Almost as? It is fucking - at least - ten times worse!
>
> No...it's not worse...it may be just as lame but at least it doesn't
> require Peter to do something so totally UNheroic as to make a deal
> with the devil.
But why? Peter, Spidey is the best character ever been created in comic
book's history.
I do not think Quesada wants to destroy it - I am very mad about him,
destroying the Peter/MJ marriage.
>>> they're just piling retcon on top of
>>> retcon and fucking up Spidey's history more and more in the process.
>>
>> My apprehension: if they come through with that stuff, they can do
>> *whatever* they do. Kids will be buying the books.
>
> They have another line of books for kids...the Marvel Adventures
> line...there is a Spiderman book in that line.
>> Here in Germany(*) we have to pay 4 € - nearly 5,5 $ for a book.
>
> They are $3.99 here.
I know - 3.99 € = 5.45 $; 5.5 € =7.5 $.
>> Let's retcon the retcon of the retcon... in a loop - I just left ASM.
>>
>> God knows - I will be back reading ASM, but I hope to read better stuff!
>
> I'm a glutton for punishment...as a long time collector, I just
> haven't been able to stop myself from getting the book to keep my
> collection up...but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
Sure. We can live without that stuff.
JMS next?
I would appreaciate..
Have a nice week-end!
grinningdemon
A lot of people thought that here too...myself, I thought it was just
a stupid choice and possibly at least partially done to justify
bringing Harry back...personally, I think Flash could have fit that
best friend role much better than a ressurrected Harry and without
fucking up even more of the history.
>>>>>> ...she never had any interesting storylines of her own until JMS
>>>>>> had her find out Peter's secret.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ooh: she almost married Doc Ock - Spidey's first super villain (!) in
>>>>> ASM 131. The man who btw. had kidnapped(? not sure) and injured her in
>>>>> ASM 54.
>>>>
>>>> The focus of all of these stories was on how it affected Peter...
>>>
>>> Of course - the title has never been "May Parker, fantasic aunt"
>>>
>>>
>>>> not on May herself...as I said, she's a plot device to cause trouble for
>>>> Peter...
>>>
>>> I agree - It may be due to my limited knowledge of the English language,
>>> that I fail in telling you what I mean to say.
>>>
>>>> and occasionally make him look more pathetic.
>>>
>>> Pathetic, come on!
>>
>> When a grown man with a college education can't pay his rent on time
>> and keeps having to move back in with his elderly aunt...that's
>> pathetic.
>
>
>That is happening in real life, daily - but it has destroyed another
>part of Peter Parker's character.
Yes, it happens in real life...but we're talking about a genius with
super powers...he can't hold down a job? Most of his superhero
brethren don't seem to have that problem...and I don't just mean the
independently wealthy ones either.
>I am reading that stuff since 1974 and I will go on reading it. There is
>a german saying: "Hope will die last".
>
>
>>>> That's the same cop-out Quesada tried selling us in interviews...blame
>>>> it all on MJ...Peter is far too moral to make a deal with the
>>>> devil...I call bullshit on that one...
>>>
>>> Hey - I am a 100% by your side!
>>> But the sales seem to be good. Holy shit!
>>
>> Spiderman always sells...the sales aren't any better than before OMD
>> and, if they are, it's only because Amazing always sells better than
>> the other spider-titles so cancelling them in favor of extra issues of
>> amazing was a total sales gimmick.
>
>ASM was the original - other titles were sold, when they did the right
>stuff;-)
>
>I was happy, when they started PPSM - it started in 1979 for us in
>Germany, as a TB with four PPSM titles and four titles of Hulk, Thor,
>Iron-Man or X-Men. We had a lack of six to seven years.
I miss having other spider-titles too...it was a nice change of pace
if you didn't like what was going on in one book at the moment or if a
story was dragging on for a long time and you wanted a break from
it...there were a lot of good stories in those other spider-books over
the years...though, admittedly, ASM was always the flagship and
USUALLY the best of the bunch.
>Long story short: we had AF 15, ASM 1-136 printed as "die Spinne" ('the
>spider') 1-137. After that there was a break - 1980 another company
>started with the TB I mentioned above and the first issue of ASM as
>regular comic book - ASM 150!
>They stole us 138 - 149 - including the original clone saga!
>
>Issue 1 started with Spider-Man getting off his clone - we had been left
>by being Harry the Green Goblin before in ASM 137!
>
>In the TB Harry went back to PP's life earlier - I was kind of pissed
>of. At that time I started to get the original books. In Bochum (German
>city) there were several shops selling the books I needed to read. But:
>they never sold ASM 138 - 149. At this time - the early 80s I had to do
>my school stuff..
Just makes be glad not to have to rely on your European reprints...a
lot of good books don't even get published over there.
>>>> regardless of who suggested it,
>>>> Peter went along with it...which not only means he made a deal with
>>>> the devil but the way they played it (trying to shift the blame to MJ)
>>>> also made him look weak and pathetic.
>>>
>>> Spooky thingy: I have to agree again!
>>>
>>>
>>>> And I know they've given us a "revised" version of OMD now...which is
>>>> almost as lame as the original...
>>>
>>> Almost as? It is fucking - at least - ten times worse!
>>
>> No...it's not worse...it may be just as lame but at least it doesn't
>> require Peter to do something so totally UNheroic as to make a deal
>> with the devil.
>
>But why? Peter, Spidey is the best character ever been created in comic
>book's history.
On that, we'll have to disagree...I love the character but I don't
consider him the best...Batman is the best.
>I do not think Quesada wants to destroy it - I am very mad about him,
>destroying the Peter/MJ marriage.
I'm not so sure he doesn't want to destroy it...I can't think of any
good reason he would but some of his decisions make me wonder...and I
feel the same way about Didio over at DC.
>>>> they're just piling retcon on top of
>>>> retcon and fucking up Spidey's history more and more in the process.
>>>
>>> My apprehension: if they come through with that stuff, they can do
>>> *whatever* they do. Kids will be buying the books.
>>
>> They have another line of books for kids...the Marvel Adventures
>> line...there is a Spiderman book in that line.
>
>
>>> Here in Germany(*) we have to pay 4 € - nearly 5,5 $ for a book.
>>
>> They are $3.99 here.
>
>I know - 3.99 € = 5.45 $; 5.5 € =7.5 $.
>
>
>>> Let's retcon the retcon of the retcon... in a loop - I just left ASM.
>>>
>>> God knows - I will be back reading ASM, but I hope to read better stuff!
>>
>> I'm a glutton for punishment...as a long time collector, I just
>> haven't been able to stop myself from getting the book to keep my
>> collection up...but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
>
>Sure. We can live without that stuff.
>
>JMS next?
>
>I would appreaciate..
Not sure what you mean here.
>Have a nice week-end!
Same to you.