Chucking Conventions (was Re: So Has The Hulk Finally Killed Someone?)
Ophidian
>
> The genre thrives on those conventions and we *have* to swallow at least some
> of them. (Though I wouldn't mind seeing secret identities go. Maybe it's
> because I watch anime, which is full of teens with super-powers fighting each
> other, but rarely any real secret IDs.)
It's an interesting idea to think about.
Downside is it would break the history of the DC or Marvel Universes.
Upside is comics could become more "realistic" and "relevant".
And hell, easier to write!
One thing I found over my years of writing and creating characters
was that as my craft got more developed, I started ditching "costumes".
At least the skin tight with a cape kind.
But some character still seemed to cry out for them.
(OK, most of those were loons, but a few iconics really begged for
that imagery...)
gandrw...@gmail.com
I wouldn't mind doing away with the costumes. I think they need
distinctive uniforms, but I think they shouldn't be skin-tight spandex.
I'm thinking body armor, jackets, t-shirts. Sorta like Superboy (RIP).
Ophidian
>
> I wouldn't mind doing away with the costumes. I think they need
> distinctive uniforms, but I think they shouldn't be skin-tight spandex.
> I'm thinking body armor, jackets, t-shirts. Sorta like Superboy .
Yeah, that's the take I was using.
Functional combat attire, but with distinct markings for
quick recognition.
And masks are okay for the secret ID types.
Fallen
Nah, I like my fantasy 'fantastic'. Star Trek, Stargate, BSG etc. are
all more popular than any real attempt at hard sci-fi.
There's nothing to stop any of the comic companies producing realistic
comic. Even the big two have gioven it a go. Ultimateverse nods in the
general direction but doesn't really do anything more. Supreme Power was
better but has since become more superheroey and is about to join the
Ultimateverse officially.
I don't think an uberrealistic superhero world, not just comic but
multiple comic world, is either possible or all that interesting.
Fallen.
bar...@shentel.net
I don't mind the occasionally casually dressed superhero, but you can't
just toss the standard superhero costumes. Stuff like body armor
would be to clunky for any hero who relies on agility.
JLB
Ophidian
> Ophidian wrote:
>
>> Ken Arromdee wrote:
>>
>>> The genre thrives on those conventions and we *have* to swallow at
>>> least some
>>> of them. (Though I wouldn't mind seeing secret identities go. Maybe
>>> it's
>>> because I watch anime, which is full of teens with super-powers
>>> fighting each
>>> other, but rarely any real secret IDs.)
>>
>>
>>
>> It's an interesting idea to think about.
>> Downside is it would break the history of the DC or Marvel Universes.
>> Upside is comics could become more "realistic" and "relevant".
>> And hell, easier to write!
>>
>> One thing I found over my years of writing and creating characters
>> was that as my craft got more developed, I started ditching "costumes".
>> At least the skin tight with a cape kind.
>> But some character still seemed to cry out for them.
>> (OK, most of those were loons, but a few iconics really begged for
>> that imagery...)
>
> Nah, I like my fantasy 'fantastic'. Star Trek, Stargate, BSG etc. are
> all more popular than any real attempt at hard sci-fi.
Of course.
The primary ingrediant fro Superheroes IS Fantasy.
But there's lots of room to manuever on how much.
> There's nothing to stop any of the comic companies producing realistic
> comic. Even the big two have gioven it a go. Ultimateverse nods in the
> general direction but doesn't really do anything more. Supreme Power was
> better but has since become more superheroey and is about to join the
> Ultimateverse officially.
>
> I don't think an uberrealistic superhero world, not just comic but
> multiple comic world, is either possible or all that interesting.
Uber? No.
But cutting some of the chaff could be workable.
It worked for the X-Movies...
Fallen
> Fallen wrote:
>
>> There's nothing to stop any of the comic companies producing
>> realistic comic. Even the big two have gioven it a go. Ultimateverse
>> nods in the general direction but doesn't really do anything more.
>> Supreme Power was better but has since become more superheroey and is
>> about to join the Ultimateverse officially.
>>
>> I don't think an uberrealistic superhero world, not just comic but
>> multiple comic world, is either possible or all that interesting.
>
> Uber? No.
> But cutting some of the chaff could be workable.
> It worked for the X-Movies...
How much did they really change though? They swapped spandex colourful
costumes for black leather costumes, which were still costumes. They
still used comic book physics and codenames and secret identities. Jean
Grey 'died' and is apparently back.
Fallen.
Fallen
Not just that but in a world where they already use technology beyond
ours and dodgy physics they could easily get away with bulletproof
material to make any costumes out of. I can't quite remember but didn't
the FF movie actually use unstable molecules?
Fallen.
Fallen
>In article <1144336842.2...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> <gandrw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I wouldn't mind doing away with the costumes. I think they need
>>distinctive uniforms, but I think they shouldn't be skin-tight spandex.
>>I'm thinking body armor, jackets, t-shirts. Sorta like Superboy (RIP).
>>
>>
>
>I can compare it to anime again here. Most of the characters with
>superpowers who beat each other up have something like a costume, but not
>spandex and no cape.
>
>
How many people have capes in the MU? Sentry for obvious reasons but is
there anybody else? Moon Knight count?
Fallen.
Daibhid Ceanaideach
> How many people have capes in the MU? Sentry for obvious
> reasons but is there anybody else? Moon Knight count?
Don't see why not. Thor and the Scarlet Witch are the first
two that occur to me. Oh, and Vision. Black Knight, sometimes.
Nighthawk and Hyperion (original versions), for similarly
obvious reasons to Sentry.
There's quite a few caped villains: Doctor Doom; Magneto;
Exodus; Count Nefaria; the other Black Knight; Crimson Cowl;
probably others.
--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"Sometimes scientific progress requires personal sacrifice.
Personally, I sacrifice Beaker." -Dr Bunsen Honeydew
David Johnston
Doctor Strange. Thor. Magneto. Doctor Doom. Sidewinder
james...@hmrcaspire.com
Ken Arromdee wrote:
> In article <1144336842.2...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> <gandrw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >distinctive uniforms, but I think they shouldn't be skin-tight spandex.
> > I'm thinking body armor, jackets, t-shirts. Sorta like Superboy (RIP).
>
> superpowers who beat each other up have something like a costume, but not
> spandex and no cape.
And in quite a few series, the noncombatants are pretty much as
strikingly designed as the superpowered characters. Examples springing
to mind are One Piece, Naruto (okay, almost everyone's a combatant
there), Trigun, Slayers, Dragonball, Fullmetal Alchemist and Tenchi.
--
James
Daibhid Ceanaideach
I don't believe I forgot Doctor Strange. I mean, he keeps
actual *powers* in the cape!
Ophidian
A few who do or have done so (IIRC):
Thor
Moon Knight*
Black Panther
Vision
Scarlet Witch
Magneto
Dr. Doom*
The Master
Cloak*
Shroud*
Mysterio
Gladiator
Hyperion
Dr. Strange
* These could be called "cloaks" or "hooded capes".
There are plenty more...
Fallen
Yeah I just wouldn't count cloaks, cloaks are a legitimate form of
clothing, a cape really isn't. And most of the ones left have only had a
cape for a short period of time.
In fact from a quick check of the 3 lists that people posted none of
them currently have a cape and quite afew of them I can't even remember
having a cape so it must have been a very short period of time.
Fallen.
gandrw...@gmail.com
> >
> >
> Not just that but in a world where they already use technology beyond
> ours and dodgy physics they could easily get away with bulletproof
> material to make any costumes out of. I can't quite remember but didn't
> the FF movie actually use unstable molecules?
>
> Fallen.
But just because they have the technology to create skin-tight
protective suits doesn't give a plausable reason why they have to be
skin-tight, when normal people don't really wear skin-tight clothes.
mimf
I suppose it cuts down on air resistance for those that fly... and it's
less apt to catch on things... and harder for a villain to grab hold of.
But mostly I think it's just easier to draw.
Ophidian
Where I see skin-tight as reasonable is for characters using it for
the same reasons as circus acrobats and olympic atheletes.
Freedom of movement.
The gaudyness isn't nescessary for most of those characters
though, except for better recognition in a visual medium, which is
of course meta.
Now, Byrne did give an excuse for Superman using one...
But most character I think would be better served "realistically"
by fatigues, blue jeans, martial arts clothing, jump suits, etc.
Optional jackets or cloaks for protection from the elements.
Cloaks are generally a bas idea for combatants, but can be good for
stealth.
"Ninja suits" would likely be better...
Ophidian
> On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 08:33:30 -0700, gandrwedding wrote:
>
>
>>
>>>Not just that but in a world where they already use technology beyond
>>>ours and dodgy physics they could easily get away with bulletproof
>>>material to make any costumes out of. I can't quite remember but didn't
>>>the FF movie actually use unstable molecules?
>>>
>>>Fallen.
>>
>>But just because they have the technology to create skin-tight protective
>>suits doesn't give a plausable reason why they have to be skin-tight, when
>>normal people don't really wear skin-tight clothes.
>
> I suppose it cuts down on air resistance for those that fly...
I don't think the difference is significant enough in most cases.
Heck, capes, done right, might increase air flow...
> and it's
> less apt to catch on things...
Best arguement against capes and jackets.
> and harder for a villain to grab hold of.
> But mostly I think it's just easier to draw.
Which is of course meta. ;(
Ophidian
Most of my list is from first appearances and it generally a long
time until their first costume change...
Lilith
Actually I can see a physical reason for not using loose clothing.
With skin tight clothing a bullet is stopped or slowed when the
projectile comes in contact with the skin-tight clothing. It could
still stagger anyone with anything near normal human strength but it
would be stopped because... why? The cloth, I suppose, would react to
sudden changes in its configuration and stiffen up. Now switch to
loose clothing made out of the hypothetical material. The bullet hits
it but the cloth gives and the bullet carries it, and shapes it, for
maybe half an inch. Then the cloth impacts the skin and still does a
good deal of penetration itself. The cloth out the immediate range of
impact doesn't react because either it's not being impacted or isn't
"stretched" with the same velocity as that of the area under and
immediately around the impact.
--
Lilith
Lilith
<daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote:
>Also Sprach Fallen:
>
>> How many people have capes in the MU? Sentry for obvious
>> reasons but is there anybody else? Moon Knight count?
>
>Don't see why not. Thor and the Scarlet Witch are the first
>two that occur to me. Oh, and Vision. Black Knight, sometimes.
>Nighthawk and Hyperion (original versions), for similarly
>obvious reasons to Sentry.
>
>There's quite a few caped villains: Doctor Doom; Magneto;
>Exodus; Count Nefaria; the other Black Knight; Crimson Cowl;
>probably others.
But for how many of those does a cape cause impedance in a fight? A
cape is impractical in a contact fight but many of those have ranged
powers. Captain America discovered the impracticality of a cape when
he went Nomad.
--
Lilith