Jasonstorm is a douche
Syvyn11
Stewart are surveying the damage by The Human Flame. Jasonstorm asks if
going after him is worth it. The GL has to remind him that Flame killed
J'onn J'onzz. Maybe Jason was never a teammate of The Manhunter from
Mars, but he was loved by the fans (not the DiDiot). It's not youth, it's
ego.
Can't wait for him to get killed by zombie Ronnie Raymond in Blackest Night.
--
"America's sweetheart is going to F$*% YOU up!"
- Sandra Bullock
Anlatt the Builder
> Latest example in Final Crisis Aftermath:Run #2: Jasonstorm and John
> Stewart are surveying the damage by The Human Flame. Jasonstorm asks if
> going after him is worth it. The GL has to remind him that Flame killed
> J'onn J'onzz.
Libra killed J'onn J'onzz. The Human Flame took pictures.
Syvyn11
"Anlatt the Builder" <tir...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c30d31ba-8eee-4147...@a7g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Flame is a accessory to the crime, he's just as guilty.
markharrison
> "Anlatt the Builder" <tirh...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:c30d31ba-8eee-4147...@a7g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 6, 8:15 pm, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Latest example in Final Crisis Aftermath:Run #2: Jasonstorm and John
> > Stewart are surveying the damage by The Human Flame. Jasonstorm asks if
> > going after him is worth it. The GL has to remind him that Flame killed
> > J'onn J'onzz.
>
> Libra killed J'onn J'onzz. The Human Flame took pictures.
>
> Flame is a accessory to the crime, he's just as guilty.
They're still publishing Final Crisis stuff?
Syvyn11
"markharrison" <markeh...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:d057a767-6f3e-4067...@s28g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
Final Crisis AFTERMATH!
Just like they did Infinite Crisis aftermath or Id Crisis Aftermath.
Anlatt the Builder
> Stewart are surveying the damage by The Human Flame. Jasonstorm asks if
> going after him is worth it. The GL has to remind him that Flame killed
> J'onn J'onzz. Maybe Jason was never a teammate of The Manhunter from
> Mars, but he was loved by the fans (not the DiDiot). It's not youth, it's
> ego.
>
> Can't wait for him to get killed by zombie Ronnie Raymond in Blackest Night.
>
>
By the way, I think the point of that scene was to establish that
Firestorm was the young guy and John Stewart was the experienced guy,
while also communicating to the readers what was going on. Just a
little bit of in-character exposition.
But of course if you want to see Jason as a douche (and ya do,
Blanche, ya do!), it won't really matter what he does or says. You'll
see him as a douche.
Kyle Rayner
It's almost impossibile for me, from Italy, to read it all.
I hate this.
Hand-of-Omega
> But of course if you want to see Jason as a douche (and ya do,
> Blanche, ya do!), it won't really matter what he does or says. You'll
> see him as a douche.
I must concur.
I've been reading your comments on the new Firestorm for a while, and
I just have to ask, what's your beef with him, exactly? You say that
you like Ronnie Raymond better (tho I can't figure out *why*), but
instead of telling us what a cool character he was (or you think he
was), all we hear is how much Jason sucks. And you don't help your
case by calling him things like "Thugstorm". In what way, exactly, is
Jason a "thug"?
Granted, I haven't read every appearance by the character, but I
certainly don't see any indications of what I consider stereotypically
"thuggish" behavior. Which I characterize as an interest in Hiphop
culture, btw, and/or criminally antisocial behavior, if I'm being more
literal. Jason doesn't even use street slang, for crying out loud, let
alone listen to rap, or wear baggy pants (again, in any issue I've
read)! So, Syvyn 11, please do explain to us all just why he deserves
to be called that?
Dex
Syvyn11
"Hand-of-Omega" <hando...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ef527c6b-49ae-4673...@j14g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 10, 1:15 am, Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> wrote:
> But of course if you want to see Jason as a douche (and ya do,
> Blanche, ya do!), it won't really matter what he does or says. You'll
> see him as a douche.
I must concur.
I've been reading your comments on the new Firestorm for a while, and
I just have to ask, what's your beef with him, exactly? You say that
you like Ronnie Raymond better (tho I can't figure out *why*), but
instead of telling us what a cool character he was (or you think he
was), all we hear is how much Jason sucks. And you don't help your
case by calling him things like "Thugstorm". In what way, exactly, is
Jason a "thug"?
________________________________________________________
First, that he was a drug dealer and then without any explainaiton, HE'S
FIRESTORM!
The changing structure of his powers every few issues. First it's anyone
who Jason is around him becomes Firestorm with him and if they are Firestorm
too long... the guy that Jason takes died! Then Jason needed no one to
become firestorm, then Martin Stien gets back in the picture, then he's
gone, then some girl merges with him to be FS.
They should have sticked to one path to merge and stayed with it!
_________________________________________________________
Granted, I haven't read every appearance by the character, but I
certainly don't see any indications of what I consider stereotypically
"thuggish" behavior. Which I characterize as an interest in Hiphop
culture, btw, and/or criminally antisocial behavior, if I'm being more
literal. Jason doesn't even use street slang, for crying out loud, let
alone listen to rap, or wear baggy pants (again, in any issue I've
read)! So, Syvyn 11, please do explain to us all just why he deserves
to be called that?
Dex
_____________________________________________
Recent issues of him in JLA, he's been whiney and a jerk to other heroes.
Not to mention his book (need I add that it was the lowest selling monthly
at DC before it was thankfully canceled).
Then the mistreatment of Ronnie Raymond's death. He dies in a way he
isn't supposed to (being pierced which is Captian Atom's way of doom).
And the JLA isn't too concerned about one day Firestorm is Ronnie, then this
kid. Nobody has ever explained why him?
And I just don't like him.
If DC wanted to create a black superhero with nuclear powers, they should
have created a NEW ONE!
Hand-of-Omega
> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ef527c6b-49ae-4673...@j14g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 10, 1:15 am, Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > But of course if you want to see Jason as a douche (and ya do,
> > Blanche, ya do!), it won't really matter what he does or says. You'll
> > see him as a douche.
>
> I must concur.
>
> I've been reading your comments on the new Firestorm for a while, and
> I just have to ask, what's your beef with him, exactly? You say that
> you like Ronnie Raymond better (tho I can't figure out *why*), but
> instead of telling us what a cool character he was (or you think he
> was), all we hear is how much Jason sucks. And you don't help your
> case by calling him things like "Thugstorm". In what way, exactly, is
> Jason a "thug"?
> ________________________________________________________
> First, that he was a drug dealer and then without any explainaiton, HE'S
> FIRESTORM!
>
Was he really a full-on, hard core drug dealer?? I never read the
first issue...
> The changing structure of his powers every few issues. First it's anyone
> who Jason is around him becomes Firestorm with him and if they are Firestorm
> too long... the guy that Jason takes died! Then Jason needed no one to
> become firestorm, then Martin Stien gets back in the picture, then he's
> gone, then some girl merges with him to be FS.
> They should have sticked to one path to merge and stayed with it!
> _________________________________________________________
I'll actually agree with you that changing this around so much did get
annoying. It felt too much like the creators
didn't have any faith in what they were doing...Still tho, that's not
a reflection on the character himself.
>
> Granted, I haven't read every appearance by the character, but I
> certainly don't see any indications of what I consider stereotypically
> "thuggish" behavior. Which I characterize as an interest in Hiphop
> culture, btw, and/or criminally antisocial behavior, if I'm being more
> literal. Jason doesn't even use street slang, for crying out loud, let
> alone listen to rap, or wear baggy pants (again, in any issue I've
> read)! So, Syvyn 11, please do explain to us all just why he deserves
> to be called that?
>
> Dex
>
> _____________________________________________
> Recent issues of him in JLA, he's been whiney and a jerk to other heroes.
>
Now, I have read recent issues of JLA, and as far as I see, he's being
portrayed as The Newbie, very similar to how Kyle, and in fact,
Ronnie, were shown when they first joined. Did they irritate you as
much as well?
> Not to mention his book (need I add that it was the lowest selling monthly
> at DC before it was thankfully canceled).
>
Again, not necessarily the fault of the character himself. Books can
sell poorly for many reasons.
> Then the mistreatment of Ronnie Raymond's death. He dies in a way he
> isn't supposed to (being pierced which is Captian Atom's way of doom).
Granted, tho, again, that's not Jason's fault.
> And the JLA isn't too concerned about one day Firestorm is Ronnie, then this
> kid. Nobody has ever explained why him?
>
Were they very concerned when Kyle got the GL ring? No one explained
that, either. Well, they may have retconned it when I wasn't looking,
but at the time, the point was specifically that the ring's selection
of Kyle was *completely random*. Sometimes, legacies just get passed
on that way. Would it make you feel any better if there was some
connection between Ronnie and Jason, or Shazam or someone said this
was part of A Plan?
> And I just don't like him.
>
Yeah, we got that.
> If DC wanted to create a black superhero with nuclear powers, they should
> have created a NEW ONE!
What does his being black have to do with anything? It's starting to
sound like that's what's really bothering you? Have you tried a
thought experiment imagining a white guy becoming the new Firestorm?
How does that make you feel?
Dex
Syvyn11
On Jun 25, 11:24 pm, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ef527c6b-49ae-4673...@j14g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 10, 1:15 am, Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > But of course if you want to see Jason as a douche (and ya do,
> > Blanche, ya do!), it won't really matter what he does or says. You'll
> > see him as a douche.
>
> I must concur.
>
> I've been reading your comments on the new Firestorm for a while, and
> I just have to ask, what's your beef with him, exactly? You say that
> you like Ronnie Raymond better (tho I can't figure out *why*), but
> instead of telling us what a cool character he was (or you think he
> was), all we hear is how much Jason sucks. And you don't help your
> case by calling him things like "Thugstorm". In what way, exactly, is
> Jason a "thug"?
> ________________________________________________________
> First, that he was a drug dealer and then without any explainaiton, HE'S
> FIRESTORM!
>
Was he really a full-on, hard core drug dealer?? I never read the
first issue...
worked for a drug dealer.
never answered for that.
Hand-of-Omega
Detroit, who wanted nothing more than to escape his home city. He
lived with his father, who had turned abusive after he lost his hand
in an industrial accident. His mother left his father sometime after
the accident, leaving the young Jason with his father. Jason later
recalled that his father had hit him on four occasions. With the loss
of a job he needed to fund college, Jason turned to a local tough for
money, accepting a job as a courier."
Doesn't mention drugs, but what else would it have been? Still, sounds
like a young man in a desperate position, who made the wrong choice.
Guess we'll have to condemn him for life, then...Of course, we'd also
have to condemn that Peter Parker kid, for not stopping a thief when
he had the chance. Or Wolverine, for all the people he's killed, and
*continues to kill*...
You realize, comeuppance or no, if we relentlessly condemn everyone
for every mistake they make in their lives...there will be NO heroes?
Second Chances can tell you alot about the character of a person...Do
they gratefully embrace it,and truly change, like Batgirl, who once
killed a man with her bare hands, or do they go back to their same old
ways, like Jason Todd?
And so I ask of you: Has Jason Rusch gone back to crime even once
since becoming a metahuman?
Dex
Anlatt the Builder
(A) they haven't been brought in as replacements for Syvyn11's
favorite superhero, and (b) they're white, so they're not going to be
ridiculed by repeatedly, incessantly, continuously calling them
"thug."
> You realize, comeuppance or no, if we relentlessly condemn everyone
> for every mistake they make in their lives...there will be NO heroes?
> Second Chances can tell you alot about the character of a person...Do
> they gratefully embrace it,and truly change, like Batgirl, who once
> killed a man with her bare hands, or do they go back to their same old
> ways, like Jason Todd?
>
> And so I ask of you: Has Jason Rusch gone back to crime even once
> since becoming a metahuman?
>
>
Of course not. Jason's a perfectly reasonable young superhero who
tries to do his best. Even if the character did make a mistake when he
was 17, constantly calling him a "thug" makes as much sense as
repeatedly calling Kyle Rayner "Drunk Lantern" (because he was
drinking when he was given the ring). I don't see Syvyn11 calling
Jason Todd "Hood Robin" - and that character really deserves it!
Anlatt the Builder
> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ef527c6b-49ae-4673...@j14g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 10, 1:15 am, Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > But of course if you want to see Jason as a douche (and ya do,
> > Blanche, ya do!), it won't really matter what he does or says. You'll
> > see him as a douche.
>
> I must concur.
>
> I've been reading your comments on the new Firestorm for a while, and
> I just have to ask, what's your beef with him, exactly? You say that
> you like Ronnie Raymond better (tho I can't figure out *why*), but
> instead of telling us what a cool character he was (or you think he
> was), all we hear is how much Jason sucks. And you don't help your
> case by calling him things like "Thugstorm". In what way, exactly, is
> Jason a "thug"?
> ________________________________________________________
> First, that he was a drug dealer and then without any explainaiton, HE'S
> FIRESTORM!
>
He wasn't a "drug dealer." He was a kid who made a mistake - like Roy
Harper made a mistake (I don't notice you calling him "Addict Arrow"),
Cassandra Cain made many mistakes ("Bat-Thug," maybe?), and so on.
You're applying a standard to Jason that doesn't get applied to any
other character.
> The changing structure of his powers every few issues. First it's anyone
> who Jason is around him becomes Firestorm with him and if they are Firestorm
> too long... the guy that Jason takes died! Then Jason needed no one to
> become firestorm, then Martin Stien gets back in the picture, then he's
> gone, then some girl merges with him to be FS.
>
> They should have sticked to one path to merge and stayed with it!
Probably they should have. How does this make Jason a thug, or bear on
his character in any way whatsoever? The stories didn't represent
these changes as being choices he made.
> _________________________________________________________
>
> Granted, I haven't read every appearance by the character, but I
> certainly don't see any indications of what I consider stereotypically
> "thuggish" behavior. Which I characterize as an interest in Hiphop
> culture, btw, and/or criminally antisocial behavior, if I'm being more
> literal. Jason doesn't even use street slang, for crying out loud, let
> alone listen to rap, or wear baggy pants (again, in any issue I've
> read)! So, Syvyn 11, please do explain to us all just why he deserves
> to be called that?
>
> Dex
>
> _____________________________________________
> Recent issues of him in JLA, he's been whiney and a jerk to other heroes.
>
Not all that unusual for young characters. You should have seen
Stargirl back when she was the Star-Spangled Kid. Nothing thuggish
about it.
> Not to mention his book (need I add that it was the lowest selling monthly
> at DC before it was thankfully canceled).
>
Lots of books get cancelled. Aquaman. Manhunter. Hawkman. What cute
name do you have for them?
> Then the mistreatment of Ronnie Raymond's death. He dies in a way he
> isn't supposed to (being pierced which is Captian Atom's way of doom).
> And the JLA isn't too concerned about one day Firestorm is Ronnie, then this
> kid. Nobody has ever explained why him?
>
You're absolutely right. And this has nothing to do with the current
Firestorm's personality.
> And I just don't like him.
>
Enitrely your right. You go, guy!
> If DC wanted to create a black superhero with nuclear powers, they should
> have created a NEW ONE!
But if they wanted to create a WHITE superhero with nuclear powers,
then it would have been okay to call him Firestorm? That seems to be
the implication.
A lot of legacy characters have the same name as the original. Flash.
Green Lantern. Atom. Dr. Mid-nite. Hourman....
But is it your belief that if they had wanted to create a black
character with superspeed, then they shouldn't have called hm the
Flash, because the original was white?
The word "thug" in this very specific context - when you repeatedly
use it to refer to a black character, and you don't use it to refer to
white characters who made similar mistakes (Roy Harper was a HEROIN
ADDICT), and you specifically mention the character's race (as you did
here) when it ought to be completely irrelevant - starts to take on a
racially charged aspect. Well, not to OM, of course, but to a lot of
people. Which is only one of the reasons that, after you hear it for
the hundreth time, it starts to get pretty irritating.
But it's a free country, Syvyn. Why don't you just keep showing us
exactly how you feel about what they did with this BLACK character
with nuclear powers?
Billy Bissette
>> If DC wanted to create a black superhero with nuclear powers, they
>> should have created a NEW ONE!
>
> But if they wanted to create a WHITE superhero with nuclear powers,
> then it would have been okay to call him Firestorm? That seems to be
> the implication.
I'm going to believe that Syvyn11 is not objecting because the new
Firestorm is black, but rather because he believes that DC killed and
replaced the previous Firestorm in some attempt at increasing racial
diversity.
Imagine if Dan Didio announced that DC was going to actively move
towards a more diverse palette of heroes. Immediately after this
announcement, Superman is killed by a lead bullet. Steel, while
working on a kryptonite powered device, permanently gives himself
Kryptonian abilities and weaknesses. Steel promptly dons Superman's
name and outfit. At the same time, Batman trips on a rooftop and
falls to his death. He is promptly replaced by a new Asian character.
Wonder Woman, confused at her last few years of story continuity,
simply lays down and dies. The next day, a spunky young wheelchair-
bound lesbian inherits all of Wonder Woman's abilities, dons the
name and outfit, and wheels her way to delivering justice.
Would fans have some right to be upset? And if you wanted to
complain about it, then you'd pretty much have to mention the
race, sexuality, or other new defining characteristic.
That is how I see Syvyn11's complaint. If there was a four or
five year down time between the old and new Firestorm, I don't
think he'd be complaining as much. If you wait that long, then
the death itself loses most of its chance to be racially motivated.
If Firestorm went out in a sensical fashion, in a good story,
then Syvyn11 would also likely be less upset. As it is, the
manner of death is an exacerbating fashion.
The new character's perceived past is both an exacerbating
factor and a factor that itself gets exacerbated. If you have
reason to dislike the new character, then you are much more
likely to harp on the new character's faults. And once you
object to the new character's faults, you are more likely to
dislike the new character. (Kyle had such a response for a
quite a while after he became Green Lantern. As do other
replacement characters, regardless of race.)
Syvyn11
"Syvyn11" <robhor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qI6dnUOlzLzvzdnX...@earthlink.com...
The person I want to blame is Dan DiDio. This was his baby. He was on
this kick for multicultural superheroes, so he "reimagined" a black
superhero (Firestorm), A asian Hero (all new Atom), A hispanic (Blue Bettle)
and a couple of lesbians (Renee Montyloa as Question and Katy Kane as
Batwoman).
Hopefully after Blackest Night, Jason is gone. Dr. Choi is MIA (so much
that Ray Palmer is back in the Atom colors in JL-Cry for Justice) and BB is
relagated back to a back up in Teen Titans.
In full disclouser, The first issue of Batwoman Dec is super! and the
Question back up looks good too. I shudder what Devin Grayson would have
done to it. Thank god for Greg Rucka and JH Williams III.
So I lay this at the feet of the DiDiot! I've been saying this for years
since "superboy and the ravers".
>
Syvyn11
"Billy Bissette" <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C361EC2D718...@216.168.3.70...
> Anlatt the Builder <tir...@aol.com> wrote in
> news:cf126fb2-3ca3-4d77...@w31g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
>> On Jun 25, 8:24 pm, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> If DC wanted to create a black superhero with nuclear powers, they
>>> should have created a NEW ONE!
>>
>> But if they wanted to create a WHITE superhero with nuclear powers,
>> then it would have been okay to call him Firestorm? That seems to be
>> the implication.
>
> I'm going to believe that Syvyn11 is not objecting because the new
> Firestorm is black, but rather because he believes that DC killed and
> replaced the previous Firestorm in some attempt at increasing racial
> diversity.
Excatly!
I like it when NEW HEROES and NEW CONCEPTS are tried!
>
> Imagine if Dan Didio announced that DC was going to actively move
> towards a more diverse palette of heroes. Immediately after this
> announcement, Superman is killed by a lead bullet. Steel, while
> working on a kryptonite powered device, permanently gives himself
> Kryptonian abilities and weaknesses. Steel promptly dons Superman's
> name and outfit. At the same time, Batman trips on a rooftop and
> falls to his death. He is promptly replaced by a new Asian character.
> Wonder Woman, confused at her last few years of story continuity,
> simply lays down and dies. The next day, a spunky young wheelchair-
> bound lesbian inherits all of Wonder Woman's abilities, dons the
> name and outfit, and wheels her way to delivering justice.
>
> Would fans have some right to be upset? And if you wanted to
> complain about it, then you'd pretty much have to mention the
> race, sexuality, or other new defining characteristic.
>
> That is how I see Syvyn11's complaint. If there was a four or
> five year down time between the old and new Firestorm, I don't
> think he'd be complaining as much. If you wait that long, then
> the death itself loses most of its chance to be racially motivated.
>
> If Firestorm went out in a sensical fashion, in a good story,
> then Syvyn11 would also likely be less upset. As it is, the
> manner of death is an exacerbating fashion.
His 'death' in ID Crisis was one of the worst in comics history since
Hawkeye in Avengers Disassembled.
Not looking ofr "death of captian marvel" kind of stuff, but put a little
effort into it.
C'mon! SHADOW THEIF? Really, FREAKING SHADOW THEIF?
>
> The new character's perceived past is both an exacerbating
> factor and a factor that itself gets exacerbated. If you have
> reason to dislike the new character, then you are much more
> likely to harp on the new character's faults. And once you
> object to the new character's faults, you are more likely to
> dislike the new character. (Kyle had such a response for a
> quite a while after he became Green Lantern. As do other
> replacement characters, regardless of race.)
The new Firestorm's origin has never been explored. Why him? Why did he
get the power? So many unanswered questions that Dan Jolley ignored.
OM
wrote:
>In full disclouser, The first issue of Batwoman Dec is super! and the
>Question back up looks good too. I shudder what Devin Grayson would have
>done to it. Thank god for Greg Rucka and JH Williams III.
...Of course, the book is now being referred to even by the GLBT
community as "Dyketective Comix". Go figger.
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
OM
<hando...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Doesn't mention drugs, but what else would it have been?
...The Wiki article doesn't mention it, but the comic made it clear
that Jason was running drugs for a thug That makes him a thug himself.
hence the name Thugstorm.
OM
<hando...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>What does his being black have to do with anything? It's starting to
>sound like that's what's really bothering you?
...As usual, everyone's zeal to expose bigotry blinds them to the real
reasons. It's not that anyone has a problem with Thugstorm being
black, its that there had been quite a number of peiople demanding
that Ronnie as Firestorm be given a new book and brought back into
prominence. Instead, Didio up and killed Ronnie, didn't even off him
heroically, and then shoehorned in a drug thug into the role. Had
Jason Rusch been a lesbian, transgender, hispanic, asian, maori,
aboriginie or even just a drunken mick ex-IRA who knows lots of dirty
limericks and drinks vodka instead of whiskey, the fans would have
still rejected the new Firestorm because it was *not* Ronnie.
Bottom Line: Thugstorm EPIC FAILS not because he's black, but because
he's simply *not* Ronnie Raymond, who the majority of fans wanted as
Firestorm.
Anlatt the Builder
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:00:43 -0400, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In full disclouser, The first issue of Batwoman Dec is super! and the
> >Question back up looks good too. I shudder what Devin Grayson would have
> >done to it. Thank god for Greg Rucka and JH Williams III.
>
> ...Of course, the book is now being referred to even by the GLBT
> community as "Dyketective Comix". Go figger.
>
>
I'd love to see a citation for this. It must be a whisper campaign. A
Google search on "Dyketective batwoman" brings up... nothing.
Or maybe OM is just making things up. Go figure.
Anlatt the Builder
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:06:47 -0700 (PDT), Hand-of-Omega
>
> >What does his being black have to do with anything? It's starting to
> >sound like that's what's really bothering you?
>
> ...As usual, everyone's zeal to expose bigotry blinds them to the real
> reasons. It's not that anyone has a problem with Thugstorm being
> black, its that there had been quite a number of peiople demanding
> that Ronnie as Firestorm be given a new book and brought back into
> prominence. Instead, Didio up and killed Ronnie, didn't even off him
> heroically, and then shoehorned in a drug thug into the role. Had
> Jason Rusch been a lesbian, transgender, hispanic, asian, maori,
> aboriginie or even just a drunken mick ex-IRA who knows lots of dirty
> limericks and drinks vodka instead of whiskey, the fans would have
> still rejected the new Firestorm because it was *not* Ronnie.
>
> Bottom Line: Thugstorm EPIC FAILS not because he's black, but because
> he's simply *not* Ronnie Raymond, who the majority of fans wanted as
> Firestorm.
>
>
And yet the Ronnie Raymond Firestorm comics was, like Jason's,
cancelled for poor sales.
Any evidence that "tha majority of fans" want Ronnie Raymond back as
Firestorm?
Billy Bissette
45b7c2...@d7g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
> And yet the Ronnie Raymond Firestorm comics was, like Jason's,
> cancelled for poor sales.
>
> Any evidence that "tha majority of fans" want Ronnie Raymond back as
> Firestorm?
If Firestorm has five fans and four of them want the character to
be Ronnie Raymond, then that would be the majority of fans. "The
majority of fans" isn't necessarily enough to float a title.
Changing the character isn't necessarily going to create enough new
fans to either shift the majority or float a book, either.
Raymond Speer
identities. (Martin Stein was a confident introvert and Ronnie Raymond
was a nonconfident extrovert.) Actually, I thought that original
configuration was fine but hacks had to tamper with the basics.
First, Stein was assigned alcoholism. (I suppose it is too much to
expect a middle aged man to become middle aged withOUT a drinking
problem.) Next, Stein went dead. Bummer.
Second, Ronnie Raymond had his family history rejiggered and his partner
in Firestorm was a Russian Sad Sack. The character was wholly redesigned
as a flaming version of Swamp Thing, and later died to the regret of
no-one.
And now, Jason Rusch is the new Firestorm and he acts like a
Bodysnatcher. When he does his Change, he incorporates as his partner in
Firestorm any person nearby and he controls the actions of the composite
hero. Hmmmm. There are more story possibilities in "everyone fuses with
Jason" than there are in "only one guy can fuse with Jason"? I don't
think so.
Hand-of-Omega
> And now, Jason Rusch is the new Firestorm and he acts like a
> Bodysnatcher. When he does his Change, he incorporates as his partner in
> Firestorm any person nearby and he controls the actions of the composite
> hero. Hmmmm. There are more story possibilities in "everyone fuses with
> Jason" than there are in "only one guy can fuse with Jason"? I don't
> think so.
This has changed a couple of times, I think. They brought Martin Stein
back (apparently, he had become a space god, or something), then he
died for reals (I think), Ronnie Raymond was also there for a while I
think, and now Jason merges with his girlfriend (who has powers in her
own right). It looks like that's gonna be the status quo for the time
being...
Dex
Hand-of-Omega
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:09:09 -0700 (PDT), Hand-of-Omega
>
> >Doesn't mention drugs, but what else would it have been?
>
> ...The Wiki article doesn't mention it, but the comic made it clear
> that Jason was running drugs for a thug That makes him a thug himself.
> hence the name Thugstorm.
>
Has he done anything of the sort since becoming Firestorm, since his
first appearance? Yes or No?
Dex
Hand-of-Omega
> Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> wrote innews:cf126fb2-3ca3-4d77...@w31g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Jun 25, 8:24 pm, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> If DC wanted to create a black superhero with nuclear powers, they
> >> should have created a NEW ONE!
>
> > But if they wanted to create a WHITE superhero with nuclear powers,
> > then it would have been okay to call him Firestorm? That seems to be
> > the implication.
>
> I'm going to believe that Syvyn11 is not objecting because the new
> Firestorm is black, but rather because he believes that DC killed and
> replaced the previous Firestorm in some attempt at increasing racial
> diversity.
>
or even the other characters who came out of it, but at *this one
specific character*.
> If Firestorm went out in a sensical fashion, in a good story,
> then Syvyn11 would also likely be less upset. As it is, the
> manner of death is an exacerbating fashion.
>
Then why doesn't he talk more about that? And not in a manner assuming
that it's the current characters' fault?
Dex
Syvyn11
Dex
the correct question is... Has he ever answered for his crimes! Yes or
no?
I'll answer for you.... NO!
Syvyn11
Dex
At least until Blackest Night 3.
Syvyn11
On Jun 26, 3:02 am, Billy Bissette <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
> Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> wrote
> innews:cf126fb2-3ca3-4d77...@w31g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Jun 25, 8:24 pm, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> If DC wanted to create a black superhero with nuclear powers, they
> >> should have created a NEW ONE!
>
> > But if they wanted to create a WHITE superhero with nuclear powers,
> > then it would have been okay to call him Firestorm? That seems to be
> > the implication.
>
> I'm going to believe that Syvyn11 is not objecting because the new
> Firestorm is black, but rather because he believes that DC killed and
> replaced the previous Firestorm in some attempt at increasing racial
> diversity.
>
And yet, his constant attacks are not aimed at any such policy of DCs,
or even the other characters who came out of it, but at *this one
specific character*.
_________________________________________________
I will admit my focus has been on Jason. But i've been against the DC
multicultrual kick from the beggining. If you want to CREATE new heroes
that are minorities, then do so. But you take characters that people
know, destroy them and then replace them with different characters in those
same heroes? Don't be suprised that it doesn't work. And for the most
part, it hasn't.
> If Firestorm went out in a sensical fashion, in a good story,
> then Syvyn11 would also likely be less upset. As it is, the
> manner of death is an exacerbating fashion.
>
Then why doesn't he talk more about that? And not in a manner assuming
that it's the current characters' fault?
Dex
++++++++_________________________
I have.
Hand-of-Omega
> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
If you keep dodging my question, then I can dodge yours.
But I will note that he is far from alone in this, as I noted earlier
in the thread.
I'm gonna refrain from further comment till I actually SEE the issue,
tho. Believe it or not, there's a difference
between Jason being a goon who has done this several times, and
someone who finally gave in and was on his first job when the Matrix
hit him, granting him a second chance. If the writer knew what he was
doing, it'll be the latter option...
BTW, you didn't answer me directly, but apparently, your answer is
Yes, you would be happier if there were/turns out to be some higher
Plan to Jason gaining his powers, rather than random luck?
Dex
Hand-of-Omega
> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4fd5ed72-9b6b-4317...@f19g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 26, 3:02 am, Billy Bissette <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
>
> > Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> wrote
> > innews:cf126fb2-3ca3-4d77...@w31g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
>
> > > On Jun 25, 8:24 pm, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> If DC wanted to create a black superhero with nuclear powers, they
> > >> should have created a NEW ONE!
>
> > > But if they wanted to create a WHITE superhero with nuclear powers,
> > > then it would have been okay to call him Firestorm? That seems to be
> > > the implication.
>
> > I'm going to believe that Syvyn11 is not objecting because the new
> > Firestorm is black, but rather because he believes that DC killed and
> > replaced the previous Firestorm in some attempt at increasing racial
> > diversity.
>
> And yet, his constant attacks are not aimed at any such policy of DCs,
> or even the other characters who came out of it, but at *this one
> specific character*.
>
> _________________________________________________
> I will admit my focus has been on Jason. But i've been against the DC
> multicultrual kick from the beggining. If you want to CREATE new heroes
> that are minorities, then do so. But you take characters that people
> know, destroy them and then replace them with different characters in those
> same heroes? Don't be suprised that it doesn't work. And for the most
> part, it hasn't.
>
saying that all along, maybe more people would agree with you. So can
we expect to hear more of this, instead of railing against a single
character forthe umpteenth time based on *one line* he said in a minor
spin-off book that few are reading anyway?
> > If Firestorm went out in a sensical fashion, in a good story,
> > then Syvyn11 would also likely be less upset. As it is, the
> > manner of death is an exacerbating fashion.
>
> Then why doesn't he talk more about that? And not in a manner assuming
> that it's the current characters' fault?
>
> Dex
>
> ++++++++_________________________
> I have.
I don't pretend to have read everything you've said here, so I'll take
your word for it. All I recall is that you *never* let a single chance
to snipe at Jason go by,no matter how unrelated it is to what's being
debated. Really, I wonder if you really can hear how you come off to
us here. "Obsession" barely covers it. I mean, honestly, chill out
about it, dude.
And this is coming to you from the guy who's upset and regularly
sounds off about how badly Cassandra Cain is treated as Batgirl! When
she's replaced in a month or so, do you think I'm gonna rail about it
like this? And believe me, it won't matter to me what the color is of
the person replacing her (your comments above essentially answer the
question put to you earlier, that: No, you apparently wouldn't mind as
much if Firestorm had been replaced by another white guy)!
Dex
Syvyn11
On Jun 27, 12:59 pm, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:946fa04c-8b09-44aa...@y17g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 26, 12:33 pm, OM <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote:> On Thu, 25
> Jun 2009 22:09:09 -0700 (PDT), Hand-of-Omega
>
> > <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >Doesn't mention drugs, but what else would it have been?
>
> > ...The Wiki article doesn't mention it, but the comic made it clear
> > that Jason was running drugs for a thug That makes him a thug himself.
> > hence the name Thugstorm.
>
> And so, I'll ask again:
>
> Has he done anything of the sort since becoming Firestorm, since his
> first appearance? Yes or No?
>
> Dex
>
> the correct question is... Has he ever answered for his crimes! Yes or
> no?
>
> I'll answer for you.... NO!
If you keep dodging my question, then I can dodge yours.
______________________________________________
Then, I'll give you a straight answer. Your question, the answer is no.
But that does not matter because HE NEVER ANSWERED FOR HIS CRIME OF DRUG
RUNNING!
Oh, he becomes a SUPERHERO (which the origin has never been explained) so
all crimes are forgiven! Must be wonderful living in Liberal Land.
_____________________________________________
But I will note that he is far from alone in this, as I noted earlier
in the thread.
I'm gonna refrain from further comment till I actually SEE the issue,
tho. Believe it or not, there's a difference
________________________________________
Good luck, there has only been one trade. And it wasn't the first issues.
_______________________________________
between Jason being a goon who has done this several times, and
someone who finally gave in and was on his first job when the Matrix
hit him, granting him a second chance. If the writer knew what he was
doing, it'll be the latter option...
________________________________________
As I said, it must be wonderful living in Liberal Land, where there is
always a excuse for every crime!
________________________________________
BTW, you didn't answer me directly, but apparently, your answer is
Yes, you would be happier if there were/turns out to be some higher
Plan to Jason gaining his powers, rather than random luck?
Dex
__________________________________________
As fans, we demand explanations for everything. Why should This version of
Firestorm be different.
Syvyn11
Dex
___________________________________________
Why don't we wait for the first issue before we do a post mortem.
Hey, I had my doubts of Batwoman in Tec'. After reading the first issue,
I have none.
Hand-of-Omega
rigorously apply the standards of Real Life to stories, then there are
few stories you can enjoy, as you seem to be learning. In stories, the
heroes often begin by departing from social norms, which often
involves crime of some sort (tho not always, of course)...Examples?
Thought you'd never ask!:
Spider-Man: Aids and abets a criminal in escaping the law.
Fantastic Four: Begin their career by breaking into government
property; stealing government property; and destroying said property.
Daredevil: Kills a prostitute by accidently knocking her out of a
window, right before becoming Daredevil (thought we'd forgot about
that, didn't you all?^^)
Wolverine: Committed God only knows how many murders. Still does to
this day, when out of sight of the other X-Men...
Batgirl: Murders a man with her bare hands. Also commits the
apparently even *worse* crime of being a minority appropriating a
white characters' superhero identity (but it was just fine when it was
Huntress doing it, right?).
And it's not just comics: Indiana Jones committed Statutory Rape
(rewatch Raiders of the Lost Ark if you don't believe me!); Luke
Skywalker initially refused to help Obi-Wan fight the Empire that he
knew was oppressing a galaxy of people, which makes him a much worse
douchbag than the comment that started this thread, huh? Doctor Who
*stole* the TARDIS that takes him on his adventures for hundreds of
years!
All criminals. None of whom have had ANY legal comeuppance. I mean,
did Jason Todd ever face the law for all those cars he boosted before
trying to jack Batman's? Hell, he got the coolest job in the world
because of that!
So, do you condemn all these "heroes" and refuse to enjoy their
adventures, as well? If so, then you're holding Jason to a different
standard than these other characters, for whatever reason, and that's
called "hypocrisy", my friend.
> But I will note that he is far from alone in this, as I noted earlier
> in the thread.
>
> I'm gonna refrain from further comment till I actually SEE the issue,
> tho. Believe it or not, there's a difference
>
> ________________________________________
> Good luck, there has only been one trade. And it wasn't the first issues.
> _______________________________________
...What? Seriously, DC didn't collect the origin story??
> between Jason being a goon who has done this several times, and
> someone who finally gave in and was on his first job when the Matrix
> hit him, granting him a second chance. If the writer knew what he was
> doing, it'll be the latter option...
> ________________________________________
> As I said, it must be wonderful living in Liberal Land, where there is
> always a excuse for every crime!
> ________________________________________
Better than living in Conversative Gestapo, where everything is a
stark black and white, and people are never allowed to change and make
something of themselves!
>
> BTW, you didn't answer me directly, but apparently, your answer is
> Yes, you would be happier if there were/turns out to be some higher
> Plan to Jason gaining his powers, rather than random luck?
>
> Dex
> __________________________________________
> As fans, we demand explanations for everything. Why should This version of
> Firestorm be different.
Ok, then, what was the reason Ronnie Raymond got his powers? As I
recall, he and the Prof were just in the right place at the right
time; much like Peter Parker was. There have been a couple of attempts
to assign some greater meaning to the spider that bit Peter, but the
fans generally reject it. Sometimes, there is no meaning, and
accidents just happen. What *matters*, is what the character then DOES
with the great power they've been given. Jason, like many others, had
every reason to become a supervillain and use his powers selfishly.
Instead, he rose to the legacy that came his way, and became a hero.
And, like it or not, that's what he is.
Dex
Syvyn11
__________________________________
You mean obeying the law?
So you are a anrachist.
>
> BTW, you didn't answer me directly, but apparently, your answer is
> Yes, you would be happier if there were/turns out to be some higher
> Plan to Jason gaining his powers, rather than random luck?
>
> Dex
> __________________________________________
> As fans, we demand explanations for everything. Why should This version of
> Firestorm be different.
Ok, then, what was the reason Ronnie Raymond got his powers? As I
recall, he and the Prof were just in the right place at the right
time; much like Peter Parker was. There have been a couple of attempts
to assign some greater meaning to the spider that bit Peter, but the
fans generally reject it. Sometimes, there is no meaning, and
accidents just happen. What *matters*, is what the character then DOES
with the great power they've been given. Jason, like many others, had
every reason to become a supervillain and use his powers selfishly.
Instead, he rose to the legacy that came his way, and became a hero.
And, like it or not, that's what he is.
Dex
At least that's a origin. Jason falls asleep and he's firestorm? And
that's it!
That's Starman's (Will Peyton) origin and that was explained later.
Hand-of-Omega
> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > As I said, it must be wonderful living in Liberal Land, where there is
> > always a excuse for every crime!
> > ________________________________________
>
> Better than living in Conversative Gestapo, where everything is a
> stark black and white, and people are never allowed to change and make
> something of themselves!
>
> __________________________________
> You mean obeying the law?
>
just, and mindless obedience has led to more tragedies than following
ones' conscience.
> So you are a anrachist.
>
Been called worse.
> Ok, then, what was the reason Ronnie Raymond got his powers? As I
> recall, he and the Prof were just in the right place at the right
> time; much like Peter Parker was. There have been a couple of attempts
> to assign some greater meaning to the spider that bit Peter, but the
> fans generally reject it. Sometimes, there is no meaning, and
> accidents just happen. What *matters*, is what the character then DOES
> with the great power they've been given. Jason, like many others, had
> every reason to become a supervillain and use his powers selfishly.
> Instead, he rose to the legacy that came his way, and became a hero.
> And, like it or not, that's what he is.
>
> Dex
>
> At least that's a origin. Jason falls asleep and he's firestorm? And
> that's it!
>
> That's Starman's (Will Peyton) origin and that was explained later.
Sure, and Peter is on a field trip and randomly gets bitten by a
spider; couldhave been ANYone! At least Matt Murdock had to actually
*take some action* for fate to strike him...Wasn't Ronnie Raymond also
on a field trip? Was his accident ever "explained"? What about Kyle's
finding the GL ring? I really don't see the difference with the
Firestorm Matrix just happening to hit this kid.
And what I wrote above still stands. The origin isn't really about how
the powers come to the character (hell, many of the most popular
heroes published today were simply *born with them*! Talk about
meaningless, right?), but how they react to it and what that reveals
about their characters. Including what lessons they learn from their
mistakes!
Syvyn11
On Jun 28, 12:59 am, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > ________________________________________
> > As I said, it must be wonderful living in Liberal Land, where there is
> > always a excuse for every crime!
> > ________________________________________
>
> Better than living in Conversative Gestapo, where everything is a
> stark black and white, and people are never allowed to change and make
> something of themselves!
>
> __________________________________
> You mean obeying the law?
>
I mean, being given a second chance. The law is not always right or
just, and mindless obedience has led to more tragedies than following
ones' conscience.
Right, after answering for your crimes, which he has NEVER DONE!
__________________________________________________
and on that Jason Reuch fails too!
Hand-of-Omega
> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:25d9e0f2-20de-48e6...@r33g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 28, 12:59 am, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > ________________________________________
> > > As I said, it must be wonderful living in Liberal Land, where there is
> > > always a excuse for every crime!
> > > ________________________________________
>
> > Better than living in Conversative Gestapo, where everything is a
> > stark black and white, and people are never allowed to change and make
> > something of themselves!
>
> > __________________________________
> > You mean obeying the law?
>
> I mean, being given a second chance. The law is not always right or
> just, and mindless obedience has led to more tragedies than following
> ones' conscience.
> __________________________________________________
> Right, after answering for your crimes, which he has NEVER DONE!
>
that I've mentioned above, from now on. Or be a hypocrite.
You're (almost) the only one who thinks so. Consider that that may
mean that you're wrong.
One of the things I've liked is that Jason has NOT been portrayed as
the perfect golden boy, who took naturally to a superhero lifestyle.
He's made mistakes, but never gave up trying to improve and do what's
right. Batman gave him quite a hard time when they first met, and not
without reason (tho he was typically dickish)...and even he has
admitted that Firestorm has shaped up good. As did Ronnie Raymond
himself! You'd think the latter would count for something...and it
would with anyone but someone with an ulterior ax to grind.
Dex
Syvyn11
_________________________________________________
I don't think so. If so many disagreed with me. HIS BOOK WOULD STILL BE
PUBLISHED!
I hate him. GET OVER IT!
________________________________________________
One of the things I've liked is that Jason has NOT been portrayed as
the perfect golden boy, who took naturally to a superhero lifestyle.
He's made mistakes, but never gave up trying to improve and do what's
right. Batman gave him quite a hard time when they first met, and not
without reason (tho he was typically dickish)...and even he has
admitted that Firestorm has shaped up good. As did Ronnie Raymond
himself! You'd think the latter would count for something...and it
would with anyone but someone with an ulterior ax to grind.
Dex
_________________________________________________
That's on you. he's a piss poor character made by a egomaniacal asshole
whose ruined DC Comic.
This mess is at the DiDiot's door. And if you want to defend it.... FINE!
Hand-of-Omega
> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:eab45ec3-f1c4-480b...@y34g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 28, 4:44 am, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > and on that Jason Reuch fails too!
>
> You're (almost) the only one who thinks so. Consider that that may
> mean that you're wrong.
> _________________________________________________
> I don't think so. If so many disagreed with me. HIS BOOK WOULD STILL BE
> PUBLISHED!
>
character, then his name wouldn't have been on the list given to Brad
Meltzer as expendable. In fact, he still would have been published,
instead of losing not just ONE, but TWO, books!
> I hate him.
Now, we finally get to the crux of things. Believe me, we know this,
we're just trying to get to the bottom of WHY.
> GET OVER IT!
> ________________________________________________
That's my line!
Look, you're entitled to your beliefs and opinions. But when you air
them in a *public forum*, anyone and everyone has the equal right to
challenge them. If you can't defend them, then you should seriously
consider either keeping them private, or that you may be (*gasp! choke!
*) wrong.
>
> One of the things I've liked is that Jason has NOT been portrayed as
> the perfect golden boy, who took naturally to a superhero lifestyle.
> He's made mistakes, but never gave up trying to improve and do what's
> right. Batman gave him quite a hard time when they first met, and not
> without reason (tho he was typically dickish)...and even he has
> admitted that Firestorm has shaped up good. As did Ronnie Raymond
> himself! You'd think the latter would count for something...and it
> would with anyone but someone with an ulterior ax to grind.
>
> Dex
> _________________________________________________
> That's on you. he's a piss poor character made by a egomaniacal asshole
> whose ruined DC Comic.
>
> This mess is at the DiDiot's door. And if you want to defend it.... FINE!
Trying to tar a character by association with an almost universally-
decried person is an amateur debating tactic. Try again. Or don't.
Whatever. ^^
Dex
Anlatt the Builder
> Then, I'll give you a straight answer. Your question, the answer is no.
> But that does not matter because HE NEVER ANSWERED FOR HIS CRIME OF DRUG
> RUNNING!
>
Roy Harper never paid for his crime of buying and using heroin.
Peter Parker never paid for his crime of letting a criminal run free -
it had negative consequences and he regrets it, but he never exactly
tunred himself over to the police.
A lot of heroes have done a *lot* worse and have never paid for it in
the sense your using.
Aquaman, Green Arrow, Roy Harper, and Starman all conceived children
out of wedlock. When did this become a "heroic" thing to do? They've
never "paid" for it.
Jason is not, and never was, a "thug." Thugs, in the modern parlence,
are nasty people who intimidate and use violence to get what they
want. Jason never did anything like that. They only reason I can see
for you continuing - over and over and over again - to callhim
"ThugStorm" is that he's black (something you feel the need to mention
when you explain why they shouldn't have created him - "If the wanted
a BLACK character with nuclear powers....") and inner-city, which
makes the idea stick in your mind. But he's not a thug.
> As I said, it must be wonderful living in Liberal Land, where there is
> always a excuse for every crime!
>
You believe in a world where no one can be redeemed for a previous
crime without - what? - going to jail? Let's throw out about half our
fictional heroes, then.
Or maybe only the black, inner-city ones. You know, the "thugs."
> As fans, we demand explanations for everything. Why should This version of
> Firestorm be different
A LOT of superheroes, from Jay Garrick, to Peter Parker, receive their
superpower thorugh some unplanned and unintended accident. You might
try making a list, before singling out Firestorm as some sort of
unique case.
For example: Ronnie Raymond was caught up in a nuclear accident. He
did absolutely nothing to earn or deserve his powers before he got
them. In that respect, he is no different than Jason.
Anlatt the Builder
> I will admit my focus has been on Jason. But i've been against the DC
> multicultrual kick from the beggining. If you want to CREATE new heroes
> that are minorities, then do so. But you take characters that people
> know, destroy them and then replace them with different characters in those
> same heroes? Don't be suprised that it doesn't work. And for the most
> part, it hasn't.
>
Ronnie's comic was cancelled. By your standard (which you applied to
Jason's comic), he was a failure as a character.
Anlatt the Builder
> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
And I'll ask you one: can you name any other superheroes who committed
a crime, never "answered" for it, and then went on to be a superhero
again?
You can start with Roy Harper, who you never call "Addict Arrow." Of
course, he's not a black inner-city kid, so he gets a pass.
Anlatt the Builder
Well, there are certainly DIFFERENT stories that can be told. It would
seem to give the writers more freedom.
But I'm not interested in defending the current power set-up of
Firestorm. I'm just interested in pointing out that Jason is not a
"thug," and that a standard is being applied to the character which is
not applied to other characters. Or did Roy Harper go to jail from
buying and using heroin?
Syvyn11
"Anlatt the Builder" <tir...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad28a927-682a-4a0d...@y34g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
are you saying that I'm a racist? I don't care about Speedy or Roy
Harper or whatever the hell his name is, son! Despite a good story by
Denny O'Neil, I still don't care about him.
But the thing was, it was a good story.
Dan Jolley's crap (and I thought his Elseworld JSA stories were crap too)
didn't wash.
So say what you want. I still don't like THUGSTORM! And a majority
agree with me.
Syvyn11
"Anlatt the Builder" <tir...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:cc7eee27-a1ec-45bd...@m19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Did you read any of the Denny O'Neil/Neal Adams stories?
Go find a trade.
Syvyn11
And if I was wrong.... Firestorm would still be published, along with Blue
Beetle and All New Atom.
All three are failures. Not my fault for saying so. It's Dan DiDio's
and Grant Morrison's fault.
Raymond Speer
Let us hear it for Syvyn 11, aka Inspector Jauvert. He's got no time
for crime or for the apologists who make excuses for criminals.
His first confrontation with the morality-sapping ethics of comcs was
when criminal Eel O'Brien had an accident with acid that turned him into
Plastic Man. Syvyn 11/ Jauvert doesn't care how many times Plastic Man
has saved the world ---- all that counts is that hero has never
displayed sufficient remorse for his crooked past.
(Of course, Syvyn 11/ Jauvert has not told us what amount of repentence
is required of thugs like Jason Rusch, Jean Valjean or Eel O'Brien.
Should they commit seppuku for their sins? Go to a monk's cell and flog
themselves in daily prayer? Surrender to the cops and stay in a cell
for life? Syvyn 11/ Jauvert is righteous, so he will decide.)
I am looking for a comics version of LE MIZ, so Syvyn 11 can chase the
superhero Valjean in an ongoing series because Valjean is an escaped
con, on the lam for having stole a loaf of bread!
Tim Turnip
wrote:
How on earth is it Grant Morrison's fault that these books failed? He
didn't write them and only came up with the sketchiest of concepts for
BB and the Atom.
Syvyn11
"Raymond Speer" <ray...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28085-4A...@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
Why is it so important to you to defend Reuch? Why is he so important to
you? His drug running is a small part of the mess that is his
'charcacter' or lack of one. He's only sympithetic to self loathing libs.
>
Anlatt the Builder
>
> Why is it so important to you to defend Reuch? Why is he so important to
> you? His drug running is a small part of the mess that is his
> 'charcacter' or lack of one. He's only sympithetic to self loathing libs.
>
Why, exactly, are you turning this into some big Liberals vs.
Conservatives battle? Everybody else is talking about Firestorm's
character and history compared to that of other comic-book heroes. You
don't even have any way of knowing the political leanings of the
posters.
But I'll gladly fess up: I'm a liberal. Not a "self-loathing" one,
though. And I'd like to thank you for demonstrating the link between
right-wing, "lib-hating" conservatives and the ugly Willie Horton-
style use of racialized language.
Not that it needed further demonstration, of course.
Anlatt the Builder
>
> Why is it so important to you to defend Reuch? Why is he so important to
> you?
Why is he important to *us*? You're kidding, right? You're the one who
is utterly obsessed with him. You're the one who creates threads with
names like "Jasonstorm is a douche." You're the one who cannot pass up
a single opportunity to slam the character, calling him "ThugStorm"
over and over again like you have Tourette's.
You'd think the character kicked your puppy or something.
Syvyn11
No, asshole! The problem is that you won't let me have my opinion!
Anlatt the Builder
> "Anlatt the Builder" <tirh...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:721c9a90-1940-440e...@a38g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
I won't let you have your opinion? How in the world could I PREVENT
you from having your opinion?
No one is taking away your opinion by pointing out the fact that you
express it in highly racialized terms ("If they want to have a BLACK
character with nuclear powers...." - why is the fact that he's black
relevant to your statement? Would it be different, or better, if he
were white?), and seems to have a strong racial component. That's MY
opinion - and, hey, we're all entitled to our opinions, right?
Syvyn11
TWO WORDS! SHUT UP!
Raymond Speer
Syvyn 11 informs me that something is wrong with me if I do not dispise
Jason Rusche. For refusing to condemn Rusche, Syvyn 11 diagnoses me as
being "a self loathing liberal."
Golly damn, is that the reason I'm not worried by having a Supreme Court
justice who may have empathy for a poor man, even a poor black man?
By the way, is Victor Hugo a "self loathing liberal?" Considering that
Hugo died long before Obama's granparents were concieved and was a
Frenchman to boot, it appears impossible to me that Hugo suffers from
the Obama worship malady that caused me to reject the True God, Rush
Limbaugh!
Anlatt the Builder
> "Anlatt the Builder" <tirh...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:f0ce488a-8c01-48aa...@x3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
I'm so hurt that you won't let me have my opinion....
Hand-of-Omega
> No, asshole! The problem is that you won't let me have my opinion!
And I repeat:
"Look, you're entitled to your beliefs and opinions. But when you air
them in a *public forum*, anyone and everyone has the equal right to
challenge them. If you can't defend them, then you should seriously
consider either keeping them private, or that you may be (*gasp! choke!
*) wrong."
Not that repeating points until they finally sink in has helped
before, but ya never know...
Dex
Hand-of-Omega
> TWO WORDS! SHUT UP!
NO!! We've made too many compromises already...You defame characters,
and we do nothing. You put down entire series, and we fall back. No
more! A line must be drawn, here! This far, no further!
And *I*...will make them PAY...for what they've done!!!
...ahem.
Seriously, tho, we've listened to your irrational rants long enough.
Frankly, we've cut you way too much slack. It's time for you to put up
or shut up. If you can't answer the simple questions put to you, then
I once again submit that you really need to rethink your situation.
Either you will or you won't, but either choice says a great deal
about you.
A wise man once wrote that when you hear something that's obviously
wrong, always speak out. You may choose not to listen, but The Truth
is where it needs to be.
Dex
Syvyn11
You don't listen good, boy. SHUT UP!
Syvyn11
On Jun 29, 10:32 pm, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> TWO WORDS! SHUT UP!
NO!! We've made too many compromises already...You defame characters,
and we do nothing. You put down entire series, and we fall back. No
more! A line must be drawn, here! This far, no further!
And *I*...will make them PAY...for what they've done!!!
...ahem.
Seriously, tho, we've listened to your irrational rants long enough.
Frankly, we've cut you way too much slack. It's time for you to put up
or shut up. If you can't answer the simple questions put to you, then
I once again submit that you really need to rethink your situation.
Either you will or you won't, but either choice says a great deal
about you.
________________________________________________
Excuse me? Amount of slack you cut me.... NONE!!!
So why don't you go back and do whatever you do and let me have my say.
_______________________________________________
A wise man once wrote that when you hear something that's obviously
wrong, always speak out. You may choose not to listen, but The Truth
is where it needs to be.
Dex
_____________________________________________
People don't want to hear the truth. So they put their prophets in
prison.
Charles Manson.
Anlatt the Builder
> "Anlatt the Builder" <tirh...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:3d2f1eea-842c-4949...@k8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
You're not the boss of me.
"You don't listen good, boy"? What is that, Klan dialect?
Syvyn11
That I'm 30 years older than you. Younger than me, that makes you a boy.
Not a race thing, it's a age thing.
Anlatt the Builder
> "Anlatt the Builder" <tirh...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:9abeb710-29d4-49cb...@h11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
What in the world would lead you to believe that you're 30 years older
than me, when I haven't even mentioned my age?
Of course, anybody who writes "No, asshole! The problem is that you
won't let me have my opinion!" and "TWO WORDS! SHUT UP!" is talking
like a whiny 12-year-old. But I strongly doubt that you're older than
me even on a chronological scale.
Syvyn11
say what you want.
Anlatt the Builder
> "Anlatt the Builder" <tirh...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:f5900850-52a8-45d4...@r10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Thank you! Thank you! You've given me the right to state my opinion!
You have that right too, of course.
Eminence
<tir...@aol.com> wrote:
>A LOT of superheroes, from Jay Garrick, to Peter Parker, receive their
>superpower thorugh some unplanned and unintended accident. You might
>try making a list, before singling out Firestorm as some sort of
>unique case.
>
>For example: Ronnie Raymond was caught up in a nuclear accident. He
>did absolutely nothing to earn or deserve his powers before he got
>them. In that respect, he is no different than Jason.
Didn't Ronnie break into the nuclear facility in an attempt to impress
Doreen Day? I confess I can't recall if he did that alone, or in the
company of others. Did he ever make up for that?
Eminence
_______________
Usenet: Global Village of the Damned
Unknown
"Eminence" <grey.e...@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
news:qckp45tq3ujir8u1h...@4ax.com...
Yes. Ronnie thought he was part of a peaceful protest but the guys in
charge were going to blow the plant up and leave Ronnie as the fall guy. I
don't remember him serving any time for the break in.
Tim Turnip
Nothing but a lousy self-loathing lib, that Ronnie Raymond.
OM
wrote:
>What in the world would lead you to believe that you're 30 years older
>than me, when I haven't even mentioned my age?
...Anlatt's one of those so-called "intellectual trolls" who'll play
"argument clinic" with his victims, jerking their chains knowing full
well no matter what evidence is given, they'll always twist it around,
claim its wrong, and act all smug and arrogant.
Best thing to do with Anlatt is send him to Killfile Hell where his
kind belongs. They serve no useful purpose, and by killfiling him you
also put the worthless sack of inhuman excrement out of the misery of
those who already have...
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
Anlatt the Builder
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:42:29 -0400, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >What in the world would lead you to believe that you're 30 years older
> >than me, when I haven't even mentioned my age?
>
> ...Anlatt's one of those so-called "intellectual trolls" who'll play
> "argument clinic" with his victims, jerking their chains knowing full
> well no matter what evidence is given, they'll always twist it around,
> claim its wrong, and act all smug and arrogant.
>
> Best thing to do with Anlatt is send him to Killfile Hell where his
> kind belongs. They serve no useful purpose, and by killfiling him you
> also put the worthless sack of inhuman excrement out of the misery of
> those who already have...
>
>
I think OM has a crush on me....
Anlatt the Builder
By the by, I didn't craft some sort of "defense" against OM's ugly
comments because I think everyone knows what kind of mean-spirited,
nasty individual he is. But just to put things in context: this is a
man who repeatedly referred to Rachel Pollack, a transgendered woman
and comic book writer (and, I shouldn't have to point out, a human
being) as "he/she/it," a tremendously rude and ugly thing to do. It's
no surpise that OM should defend Syvyn for repeatedly calling Jason
Rusch "ThugStorm," a similar kind of childish rhetorical trick. But at
least Syvyn's phrase (which, combined with his other comments and his
ignoring the fact that his beloved Ronnie Raymond ALSO started out by
breaking the law, tends to look knd of racist) is only directed at a
fictional character. OM used his derogatory language on a person, and
one far more talented than he.
(Although, if he had only criticized her actual work, I would never
had said a word.)
He went on to condemn Pollack - again, repeatedly - because she hadn't
made a public announcement, before writing the Doom Patrol, to all
comic book readers everywhere that she had been born biologically male
and later had gender reassignment surgery. This is private information
that no writer - no person - is required to make public unless she
wants to; no reader needs to know it in order to enjoy, or evaluate,
her work; and attacking her on this basis is simply asinine.
When I said that - not exactly an act of "intellectual trolling" by
any definition - OM killfiled me. He's now set himself up in a great
situation, where he can make exceedingly nasty comments about me and
my postings (based on incomplete quotes found in other people's
posts), but he doesn't have to deal with my responses in any way. He
attacks but hides from any answers. Safe and cowardly, if you ask me.
In other words: he's a bigot and a jerk and proves, once again, that
all bullies are cowards.
plausible prose man
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:09:09 -0700 (PDT), Hand-of-Omega
>
> <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Doesn't mention drugs, but what else would it have been?
>
> ...The Wiki article doesn't mention it, but the comic made it clear
> that Jason was running drugs for a thug That makes him a thug himself.
No, that makes him a drug mule or pusher or something. Frankly,
that's decent honest work. Being a thug involves jumping out of the
shadows and beating someone up.
> hence the name Thugstorm.
You're an idiot.
plausible prose man
> On Jun 27, 4:32 pm, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:696c4529-19f5-4148...@h11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jun 27, 12:59 pm, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Hand-of-Omega" <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:946fa04c-8b09-44aa...@y17g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Jun 26, 12:33 pm, OM <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote:> On Thu, 25
> > > Jun 2009 22:09:09 -0700 (PDT), Hand-of-Omega
>
> > > > <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >Doesn't mention drugs, but what else would it have been?
>
> > > > ...The Wiki article doesn't mention it, but the comic made it clear
> > > > that Jason was running drugs for a thug That makes him a thug himself.
>
> > > And so, I'll ask again:
>
> > > Has he done anything of the sort since becoming Firestorm, since his
> > > first appearance? Yes or No?
>
> > > Dex
>
> > > the correct question is... Has he ever answered for his crimes! Yes or
> > > no?
>
> > > I'll answer for you.... NO!
>
> > If you keep dodging my question, then I can dodge yours.
>
> > ______________________________________________
> > Then, I'll give you a straight answer. Your question, the answer is no.
> > But that does not matter because HE NEVER ANSWERED FOR HIS CRIME OF DRUG
> > RUNNING!
>
> > Oh, he becomes a SUPERHERO (which the origin has never been explained) so
> > all crimes are forgiven! Must be wonderful living in Liberal Land.
> > _____________________________________________
>
> No, I call it a Healthy Separation of Fantasy and Reality. If you
> rigorously apply the standards of Real Life to stories, then there are
> few stories you can enjoy, as you seem to be learning. In stories, the
> heroes often begin by departing from social norms, which often
> involves crime of some sort (tho not always, of course)...Examples?
> Thought you'd never ask!:
>
> Spider-Man: Aids and abets a criminal in escaping the law.
It's kind of a reach to say he "aids and abets" that guy, assuming
you're referring to the robber from his origin story. I'm pretty sure
"aiding and abetting" involves some active step, like furnishing a
hideout, or driving a getaway car, or supplying some pocket money and
a change of clothes, etc, rather than just not putting yourself in
harm's way to foil the escape.
> Fantastic Four: Begin their career by breaking into government
> property; stealing government property; and destroying said property.
We objectivists think the greater crime was the government
confiscating property by force for a non-public good.
> Daredevil: Kills a prostitute by accidently knocking her out of a
> window, right before becoming Daredevil (thought we'd forgot about
> that, didn't you all?^^)
That's unfortunate, but if it's really an accident, it's likely only
a tort, and may not even be that. You know, shit happens.
> Wolverine: Committed God only knows how many murders.
While I won't say for a fact Wolverine has never murdered anyone,
Wolverine would have every moral and legal justification for killing
the shit out of, say, Dr. Doom were he shooting energy beams at him or
a bystander or just demonstrating some reasonably-inferred threat to
do so, and hell, Dr. Doom wears that battlesuit every where he goes,
so really, shoot him dead on sight.
> Still does to
> this day, when out of sight of the other X-Men...
>
> Batgirl: Murders a man with her bare hands.
Some people need killin'.
> Also commits the
> apparently even *worse* crime of being a minority appropriating a
> white characters' superhero identity (but it was just fine when it was
> Huntress doing it, right?).
What minority is the Huntress?
> And it's not just comics: Indiana Jones committed Statutory Rape
> (rewatch Raiders of the Lost Ark if you don't believe me!);
Eh...I know Marion says "I was a child," but there's little to
indicate she means this very literally. Even if Jone's actions there
go beyond "cad" to "creepy," well, "statuatory" indicates some statute
was violated, and who knows what the age of consent was in the part of
the world where Marion and Indy first did whatever.
>Luke
> Skywalker initially refused to help Obi-Wan fight the Empire that he
> knew was oppressing a galaxy of people, which makes him a much worse
> douchbag than the comment that started this thread, huh?
It's perhaps somewhat pussilanimous, but not really a crime.
> Doctor Who
> *stole* the TARDIS that takes him on his adventures for hundreds of
> years!
>
> All criminals.
Except for everyone you mentioned, except possibly Dr. Who.
> None of whom have had ANY legal comeuppance. I mean,
> did Jason Todd ever face the law for all those cars he boosted before
> trying to jack Batman's?
Does Batman face any legal penalty from the law or censure from the
superhero community for sending boys who are no older than sixteen and
possibly more like twelve to fight gangsters and people like the
Joker?
>Hell, he got the coolest job in the world
> because of that!
>
> So, do you condemn all these "heroes" and refuse to enjoy their
> adventures, as well? If so, then you're holding Jason to a different
> standard than these other characters, for whatever reason, and that's
> called "hypocrisy", my friend.
And that's not cool! Well, it looks like Fat Albert and the kids are
going to sing a song for us...
plausible prose man
> Aquaman, Green Arrow, Roy Harper, and Starman all conceived children
> out of wedlock. When did this become a "heroic" thing to do?
Judging from the mythology I've read, that's the usual way with
heroes.
plausible prose man
> The person I want to blame is Dan DiDio. This was his baby. He was on
> this kick for multicultural superheroes, so he "reimagined" a black
> superhero (Firestorm), A asian Hero (all new Atom), A hispanic (Blue Bettle)
> and a couple of lesbians (Renee Montyloa as Question and Katy Kane as
> Batwoman).
Which is just the final...I don't want to say "insult," but...there's
something weird in the way the writers and editors at national
apparently originally introduced Kathy, at least in part, as a
heterosexual woman who would show some romantic interest in Bruce in
hopes of addressing some of the concerns raised by Werham, and in so
doing made the strip absolutely flamingly queer, said character now re-
imagined as a sexually active and even promiscuous lesbian mainly for
the prurient titallation of homophobically straight men and boys.
plausible prose man
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:00:43 -0400, "Syvyn11" <robhorine...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In full disclouser, The first issue of Batwoman Dec is super! and the
> >Question back up looks good too. I shudder what Devin Grayson would have
> >done to it. Thank god for Greg Rucka and JH Williams III.
>
> ...Of course, the book is now being referred to even by the GLBT
> community as "Dyketective Comix". Go figger.
So much so the only use of the term found on the internet is in this
thread, go fuck yourself with your wooden leg shitbrain.
plausible prose man
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:06:47 -0700 (PDT), Hand-of-Omega
>
> <handofom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >What does his being black have to do with anything? It's starting to
> >sound like that's what's really bothering you?
>
> ...As usual, everyone's zeal to expose bigotry blinds them to the real
> reasons. It's not that anyone has a problem with Thugstorm being
> black,
The use of the term "thugstorm" seems to hint otherwise, that its
somehow worse that he's black.
> its that there had been quite a number of peiople demanding
> that Ronnie as Firestorm be given a new book
Yeah? Really? Like as many as seven?
>and brought back into
> prominence. Instead, Didio up and killed Ronnie, didn't even off him
> heroically, and then shoehorned in a drug thug into the role.
Drug thug?
> Had
> Jason Rusch been a lesbian, transgender, hispanic, asian, maori,
> aboriginie or even just a drunken mick ex-IRA who knows lots of dirty
> limericks and drinks vodka instead of whiskey, the fans would have
> still rejected the new Firestorm because it was *not* Ronnie.
I don't know, that last one sounds pretty awesome.
"A vice both obscene and unsavory
holds the Bishop of London in slavery;
with lascivious howls
he deflowers young owls
that he lures to an underground aviary "
>
> Bottom Line: Thugstorm EPIC FAILS not because he's black, but because
> he's simply *not* Ronnie Raymond, who the majority of fans wanted as
> Firestorm.
The majority of fans would seemingly rather read the various Dark
Reign tie-in books, and don't much give a shit about a c-lister like
firestorm.
Lilith
And something to which I take particular offense. Having transitioned
myself I'm doing well at my job and have gotten glowing reviews in the
last few years, showing that the transition didn't affect my ability
to perform the same work I'd always done. Still there are some people
who apparently don't approve that always look at me out of the corner
of their eyes with a disgusted look on their face. In truth I think
the transition has helped in that I've learned to stop worrying about
these people whereas before I was overly concerned about what people
thought of me even for unrelated reasons.
Regretfully, I haven't read any of Rachel's work. I believe that her
writings came out at the time when my financial situation forced me to
give up comics for several years. I'll have to pick up some of her
books at some time.
--
Lilith
OM
>
>Regretfully, I haven't read any of Rachel's work. I believe that her
>writings came out at the time when my financial situation forced me to
>give up comics for several years. I'll have to pick up some of her
>books at some time.
...May I reccommend that, in this case, to possibly spare yourself
wasting your hard-earned cash, that you download scans of Pollack's
abyssmal ruination of "Doom Patrol"? If you actually like it, you can
always buy the issues later. Normally I don't recommend anyone pirate
anything - except for "Ministry of Space", but that's another story
altogether - but in this case it might not be a bad idea to at least
check out the first few issues before you actually fork down the cash.
Honestly, tho, the only justifiable reason I've ever agreed wtih for
buying that part of the run was for Ted McKeever's art, which was the
only reason I stuck with the book to the end despite the storytelling
getting worse and worse with each issue.
...As for Anlatt's accusations and his attempts to portray me as a
bigot and/or a homophobe over my correct analysis of how Pollack
misled Vertigo into hiring her for the DP spot after Morrison left -
especially claiming that her "personal experiences with menstruation"
inspired how she wrote Dorothy - all I can say is the same thing I've
said about the pedantic misanthrope since he first went off on his
blathering: *fuck* him. That's all that needs to be said other than to
killfile him because he's a schmuck *and* a liar to boot.
Anlatt the Builder
>
> ...As for Anlatt's accusations and his attempts to portray me as a
> bigot and/or a homophobe over my correct analysis of how Pollack
> misled Vertigo into hiring her for the DP spot after Morrison left -
> especially claiming that her "personal experiences with menstruation"
> inspired how she wrote Dorothy - all I can say is the same thing I've
> said about the pedantic misanthrope since he first went off on his
> blathering: *fuck* him. That's all that needs to be said other than to
> killfile him because he's a schmuck *and* a liar to boot.
>
>
As I said, if OM is going to make derogatory, inuslting, ugly remarks
about me AND make sure (through killfiling) that he doesn't have to
see any responses, then he is a bully and a coward.
And if he's going to refer to a transgendered woman, repeatedly, as
"he/she/it", and attack her for not announcing to the world that she
was born bilogically male, then he is indeed a mean-spirited bigot.
And if he (or anybody) can actually provide a citation in which
Pollack says that she personally experienced menstruation, then he
will be WAY ahead of where he was the last time this came up, because
he never provided a source for the quote and I've never seen one. I
don't actually believe she would have ever said such a thing, but I'm
willing to be proved wrong. (Although, even if I am, he should have
stuck to that point and not called her "he/she/it.")
OM's skillful use of nasty language does nothing to prove he's NOT a
bully, a bigot, and a coward. Quite the opposite.
He thinks "misanthrope" is defined as somebody who doesn't like HIM.
That's not quite correct.
M.O.R
> ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
> ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
> ]=====================================[
Rachel Pollock chose to write a really bad story about a character's
menstrual cycle, or at least focusing on a character's cycle. Would
not have made a difference whether the writer was male of female, it
was a bad story. Chuck Dixon is said to have a very strong
understanding of women, something he has written an essay about for
aspiring writers, and something which he says he learned from growing
up with a number of sisters as a kid, and, I believe he was the only
son. If he had written the same story, exact same wording and exact
same script, we would have hammered him for that too, and if Gail
Simone, a writer with a strong understanding of women characters, had
written the same script, word for word, and it was also awful, we
would still hammer her for writing that same story.
In fact, one of the best stories ever written about a crisis pregnancy
was written by Dwayne McDuffie when he wrote about Icon and his teen
sidekick getting pregnant, and pondering over whether to have an
abortion or not. She chose to keep it, but a number of women she
talks with have through the same situation, and have made different
choices in the same situation. Dwayne is a darn good writer when he
sets his mind on it.
I don't feel that somebody's orientation, gender, or race should be a
factor in writing a story.
How did she lie to people or editors about whether she had a period or
not? And what editor would even think to ask an employee that? They
would be standing in front of a judge to answer for their actions if
they did.
I am fortunate to not have had to make the difficult decision that
someone like Rachel Pollock has had to make. I mean, most people
should concentrate on their own problems, not create problems for
others. I have certain hang ups, but their my hang ups, and I am
trying to work on them and correct them rather than blame them on
others.
Anlatt the Builder
Well said. If someone wants to claim that Rachel Pollack's wrote some
bad Doom Patrol stories, I wouldn't say a word. Her tenure on that
book wasn't for everyone. In particular, most of it wasn't for me -
I'm a fairly mainstream superhero kind of guy, with a strong interest
in the craft of science fiction/fantasy worldbuilding.
But when somebody uses derogatory, dehumanizing language to refer to
transgendered people, and attacks them on the basis of claims -
without much proof to speak of - that they are "deceptive tricksters."
then I get pissed off and I'm going to speak up.
If this leads someone as meanspirited and deliberately obnoxious as OM
to label me as "pedant" and "misanthrope" (words I am not sure he
knows the meaning of), and to hide behind a killfile while hurling
ugly invective at me (based on fragments of my posts that he reads
quoted in other people's posts), then I can't really worry about it.
Anti-transsexual bigots are always going on about how transgendered
people are "deceptive" and "tricky;" it's the standard hateful
narrative. I've never seen a shred of evidence that Rachel Pollack
lied to her editors or publishers about anything. And since OM is
shielding himself from me with an all-mighty killfile, I can't ask him
to substantiate his claims, something he's never done.
Mind you, OM is also the person who wrote "Of course, [Detective
Comics with the new Batwoman] is now being referred to even by the
GLBT community as 'Dyketective Comix'. Go figger."
Now, I've never heard anybody in the GLBT community use that term, so
I did a Google search of "Dyketective Batwoman" and came up with -
OM's post, and nothing else. So, either:
- The GLBT community is conducting a WHISPER CAMPAIGN of referring to
the book as "Dyketective Comics," refraining from using it on the
Internet, and somehow OM is privy to this; or
- OM just makes shit up, and has zero credibility, especially when it
comes to the GLBT community.
Pedantic misnathrope that I am, I'm going for #2. Go figger.