Return of Superboy to Legion
Michael R. Grabois ... change $ to "s"
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:07:34 +0800, "Devlin Tay" <devl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Possible spoilers ....
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>The publicity blurb at DCComics.com says the following about Legion #25,
>"Part 1 begins in Smallville, where a young Clark Kent is confronted by
>three oddly dressed teens...but by the end, a dead hero will have returned,
>a young man will have found his destiny, and an apocalyptic darkness
>prophesied in "Dream Crime" will have reared its ugly head!". Does anyone
>intepret this to mean the return of the Silver Age or the Pocket Universe
>Superboy, especially the "a dead hero will have returned" bit? Or am I
>reading too much into that sentence?
Probably.
The "dead hero" could be Live Wire, since he is one of the three founders of
the Legion, all of whom went back in time to Smallville to recruit the original
Superboy in "Adventure Comics" 247 (1958).
--
Michael R. Grabois -//- http://chili.cjb.net
"People say losing builds character. That's the stupidest thing I ever
heard. All losing does is suck. " -- Charles Barkley, 9/29/96
hackworthless
"Michael R. Grabois ... change $ to "s"" <wizardimp$1...@houston.rr.com> wrote
in message news:rqnphvg24iq5qp65f...@4ax.com...
> [cross-posted to rec.arts.comics.dc.lsh]
>
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:07:34 +0800, "Devlin Tay" <devl...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> >Possible spoilers ....
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> >The publicity blurb at DCComics.com says the following about Legion #25,
> >"Part 1 begins in Smallville, where a young Clark Kent is confronted by
> >three oddly dressed teens...but by the end, a dead hero will have
returned,
> >a young man will have found his destiny, and an apocalyptic darkness
> >prophesied in "Dream Crime" will have reared its ugly head!". Does
anyone
> >intepret this to mean the return of the Silver Age or the Pocket Universe
> >Superboy, especially the "a dead hero will have returned" bit? Or am I
> >reading too much into that sentence?
>
> Probably.
>
> The "dead hero" could be Live Wire, since he is one of the three founders
of
> the Legion, all of whom went back in time to Smallville to recruit the
original
> Superboy in "Adventure Comics" 247 (1958).
or gim allon. longshot, but it might happen.
Outpost 2
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>> >The publicity blurb at DCComics.com says the following about Legion #25,
>> >"Part 1 begins in Smallville, where a young Clark Kent is confronted by
>> >three oddly dressed teens...but by the end, a dead hero will have
>returned,
>> >a young man will have found his destiny, and an apocalyptic darkness
>> >prophesied in "Dream Crime" will have reared its ugly head!". Does
>anyone
>> >intepret this to mean the return of the Silver Age or the Pocket Universe
>> >Superboy, especially the "a dead hero will have returned" bit? Or am I
>> >reading too much into that sentence?
>>
>> Probably.
>>
>> The "dead hero" could be Live Wire, since he is one of the three founders
>of
>> the Legion, all of whom went back in time to Smallville to recruit the
>original
>> Superboy in "Adventure Comics" 247 (1958).
>
>or gim allon. longshot, but it might happen.
I recently saw artwork that depicted Jan Arrah, so they could be referring to
that.
Brian Doyle
"Outpost 2" <outp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030722131531...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >> >Possible spoilers ....
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> I recently saw artwork that depicted Jan Arrah, so they could be referring
to
> that.
And let me hear an "Alleluia!" for that one if it's true!
As long as he doesn't come back as a nemesis..... perhaps when they get
round to dealing with Progeny hunting cult that Singularity was leading...
or something...
Duke Harrington
Speculation: The Superboy from an alternate universe is visited by the
Lightning Lad, Element Lad, and Colossal Boy of his Universe. In the course
of an adventure, Superboy and one, or more, of these heroes becomes stranded
in the current reboot Universe where they join the Legion.
Duke
Sean Daugherty
> Speculation: The Superboy from an alternate universe is visited by the
> Lightning Lad, Element Lad, and Colossal Boy of his Universe. In the course
> of an adventure, Superboy and one, or more, of these heroes becomes stranded
> in the current reboot Universe where they join the Legion.
Ooh... fun. Either Lightning Lad or Element Lad would work well, as
they'd have the differences between their alternate universe selves to
play off of (more so than Gim, really). I suspect it's a little too
fannish to actually happen, though.
And, of course, we're conveniently forgetting the possibility that the
"dead hero" referred to could be Monstress, or, hell, KQI... :-)
JWMeritt
I must admit to not following this closely, but wasn't earth aka Sol III the
only world in the alternate universe that Superboy was in, and wouldn't that
mean the one you seek would have to come from earth. Which none of these
choices did...
James W. Meritt, CISSP, CISA
Michael S. Schiffer
news:20030723134442...@mb-m25.aol.com:
>...
> I must admit to not following this closely, but wasn't earth aka
> Sol III the only world in the alternate universe that Superboy
> was in, and wouldn't that mean the one you seek would have to
> come from earth.
That wasn't stated in the original LSH/Superman crossover, but was
added for the later Supergirl introduction. Given the number of
times the universe (and therefore, implicitly, the pocket
universe) has been rebuilt since then, I'd say they could ignore that
element if they cared to. It's not as if the fact was important to
either story. (Is there even a consistent explanation of who created
the PU and why in the current continuity?)
Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS
msch...@condor.depaul.edu
Michael Pastor
"Michael S. Schiffer" <msch...@condor.depaul.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns93C19471075C...@130.133.1.4...
Actually, it was important that Krypton and Earth were the only planets
left: lack of any other super-heroes (especially by extra-terrestrial
means).
I think the Time Trapper has been the creator of the PU since the get-go,
and given his appearances in the reboot Legion, creating pocket universes
(or trapping little tributaries in the Hypertime streams) is his MO.
michael j pastor
Michael S. Schiffer
news:bfmrhs$gbb62$1...@ID-174457.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
> "Michael S. Schiffer" <msch...@condor.depaul.edu> wrote in
> message news:Xns93C19471075C...@130.133.1.4...
>> jwme...@aol.com (JWMeritt) wrote in
>> news:20030723134442...@mb-m25.aol.com:
>> >...
>> > I must admit to not following this closely, but wasn't earth
>> > aka Sol III the only world in the alternate universe that
>> > Superboy was in, and wouldn't that mean the one you seek
>> > would have to come from earth.
>>
>> That wasn't stated in the original LSH/Superman crossover, but
>> was added for the later Supergirl introduction. Given the
>> number of times the universe (and therefore, implicitly, the
>> pocket universe) has been rebuilt since then, I'd say they
>> could ignore that element if they cared to. It's not as if the
>> fact was important to either story. (Is there even a
>> consistent explanation of who created the PU and why in the
>> current continuity?)
> Actually, it was important that Krypton and Earth were the only
> planets left: lack of any other super-heroes (especially by
> extra-terrestrial means).
Still, the PU apparently eliminated all hero origins other than
Superboy's. Among the last survivors were, IIRC, Bruce Wayne and
Oliver Queen as well as Hal Jordan. I don't see that it would be
more difficult to keep Abin Sur or Katar Hol away from Earth than it
was to keep the Waynes from dying or whatever-- getting rid of their
home planets seems like overkill. We didn't see a Barry Allen Flash,
a Metamorpho, a Wonder Woman, or any number of other Earthbound
heroes who might have been able to put up a fight against the Phantom
Zoners (or at least survive the disaster long enough to ally with
Superman and Luthor). The absence of non-Kryptonian aliens doesn't
strike me as central to the conceit, given that. I'd be inclined to
figure that they're free to declare that the post-Glorith or post-
Zero-Hour PU had other planets if it's useful to do so. I'd also
guess that that better fits Levitz's original intention (since he
clearly wanted to preserve as many old Superboy/Legion stories as
possible, and there were plenty of 20th century encounters with
aliens) if not Byrne's.
> I think the Time Trapper has been the creator of the PU since
> the get-go,
I'm pretty sure that it was Glorith for a while at least, since there
was a period in v4 which the Time Trapper was eliminated from history
entirely. (Though he got better, of course.) And whether the Zero
Hour Rokk Krynn Trapper is the same as the Incarnation of Entropy
Trapper of v3 is, at best, a matter of interpretation. (I don't know
if the postboot Trapper is explicitly either of the above.)
Michael Pastor
OH, you just had to go and mention Glorith didn't you....
Actually, the whole PU was non-existant while she was around, until the
editors let the Superboy conceits back in. Then, the PU came back with the
Time Trapper while he was in his chronal virus stage.
michael j pastor
Michael S. Schiffer
>...
> OH, you just had to go and mention Glorith didn't you....
> Actually, the whole PU was non-existant while she was around,
> until the editors let the Superboy conceits back in. Then, the
> PU came back with the Time Trapper while he was in his chronal
> virus stage.
It's been years since I read v4, so I may be wrong. My recollection
is that a little while after the Mordruverse interlude (but before
the Time Trapper was written back in), there was an Omnicom that
referred to the "otherdimensional Superboy" as one of the Legion's
casualties. (On the other hand, thinking about it, maybe that was
before the Mordruverse reboot-- it's all something of a blur.)
It was later indicated (possibly out-of-story) that Superboy had been
a member for a very short time. (IIRC, this was all because the
Superman editors, having pushed TMK into getting rid of Superboy and
Lar Gand's El connection, belatedly realized that the Superman Exile
and Matrix/Supergirl storylines depended on there having been a
pocket universe in the first place.) While I don't think that
Glorith was ever explicitly named as the creator of the PU, she was
pretty much the only candidate to have done it during that period.
(Then, of course, they brought the Time Trapper back, to demonstrate
what maximum entropy in a superhero comic really looks like.)
Sean Daugherty
> I'm pretty sure that it was Glorith for a while at least, since there
> was a period in v4 which the Time Trapper was eliminated from history
> entirely. (Though he got better, of course.) And whether the Zero
> Hour Rokk Krynn Trapper is the same as the Incarnation of Entropy
> Trapper of v3 is, at best, a matter of interpretation. (I don't know
> if the postboot Trapper is explicitly either of the above.)
IIRC, which I quite possibly do not, when the universe was recreated
by the alternate universe's Rond Vidar with Glorith replacing the
Trapper as the main counterbalance to Mordru's ascendancy, the pocket
universe became essentially redundant. In the new universe, rather
than using the pocket universe's Superboy as the inspiration for the
Legion, the Legion drew its inspiration from Lar Gand's seeding of the
worlds in the 20th century, all of which took place in the mainline
DCU.
Eventually, when Glorith absorbed the remaining essence of the Time
Trapper (around v4 #15 or so), things changed again. The pocket
universe was reintroduced in a much reduced role, as was the Time
Trapper. Basically, in this new schema, Superboy first showed up on
the LSH's doorstep approximately around the time of the Great
Darkness, and the Time Trapper first encountered the Legion during the
"Legionnaires 3" miniseries. Cosmic Boy and Night Lass did travel back
to the 20th century in the "Cosmic Boy" mini, and it was there that
they discovered that Superboy's story didn't mesh with the actual
history of Superman. They discovered the truth about the pocket
universe as they did in the original timeline, and, with the aid of
the Infinite Man, defeated the Trapper soundly in v3 #50. But Lar Gand
either was not sufficiently injured, or recovered from his injuries
before the Magic Wars killed him off for good, and Luornu held onto
her second body for a little longer, until Glorith "killed" it off
when the same exact Legionnaires, apparently having learned nothing
from the dissension in the ranks the revenge against the Trapper cost
them, went and tried the exact same gambit against Glorith in
retaliation for the devastation of Daxam. Hey, I never said it was a
clean fit :-)
And the post-ZH Time Trapper is *not* Rokk Krinn. The Trapper was very
definitely killed by Parallax in the final issues of ZERO HOUR. The
new, post-ZH Trapper does seem to have many of the memories of the
Krinn Trapper, and has even commented that "once, I was even one of
you," but seems to be a different (possibly feminine, possibly not)
entity entirely.
Brian Doyle
"Sean Daugherty" <sean...@speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:e8789e16.03072...@posting.google.com...
> And the post-ZH Time Trapper is *not* Rokk Krinn. The Trapper was very
> definitely killed by Parallax in the final issues of ZERO HOUR. The
> new, post-ZH Trapper does seem to have many of the memories of the
> Krinn Trapper, and has even commented that "once, I was even one of
> you," but seems to be a different (possibly feminine, possibly not)
> entity entirely.
At the end of Zero Hour I go the idea the new Time Trapper was female too,
possibly even an alt-Barbara Gordon, as about the only alt-female to show up
consistently throughout ZH.
Michael Pastor
"Brian Doyle" <No_...@freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bfpum9$p7g$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
I think it was meant to imply that it was a merged Glorith/Time Trapper
(blond hair in the cowl thingy), but it could also be Element Lad for all we
know.
I think that last panel was written off by the new Legion team(s) pretty
quickly, preferring to leave the TT enigmatic, as well he should be.
Of course, I have my own private theory of who the Time Trapper is, but it's
a secret ;-)
michael j pastor
Michael S. Schiffer
>...
> Of course, I have my own private theory of who the Time Trapper
> is, but it's a secret ;-)
I know! It's Kara Zor-El! :-)
Dan McEwen
> I think it was meant to imply that it was a merged Glorith/Time
> Trapper (blond hair in the cowl thingy), but it could also be Element
> Lad for all we know.
I thought TT was going to be Lori Morning or something like that.
--
Dan
a.a. #1617
Sean Daugherty
> "Michael Pastor" <michael...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:bfp160$ha77o$1...@ID-174457.news.uni-berlin.de:
> >...
> > OH, you just had to go and mention Glorith didn't you....
>
> > Actually, the whole PU was non-existant while she was around,
> > until the editors let the Superboy conceits back in. Then, the
> > PU came back with the Time Trapper while he was in his chronal
> > virus stage.
>
> It's been years since I read v4, so I may be wrong. My recollection
> is that a little while after the Mordruverse interlude (but before
> the Time Trapper was written back in), there was an Omnicom that
> referred to the "otherdimensional Superboy" as one of the Legion's
> casualties. (On the other hand, thinking about it, maybe that was
> before the Mordruverse reboot-- it's all something of a blur.)
According to the Bierbaum's sourcebook (I don't remember if this
particular nugget was presented clearly in the comic itself...), the
Glorithverse actually came in two pieces. The first iteration of the
Glorithverse resulted from the events of v4 #5, and did not include
the pocket universe, Superboy, et al. in any way, shape, or form.
However, about ten issues later things changed again, when the Trapper
popped up again to try and bargain with Glorith. When Glorith absorbed
the Trapper's essence (which would remain within her for another fifty
issues or so), certain conceits of the pocket universe were
reintegrated into the Glorithverse, as was the Time Trapper himself,
albeit in a much reduced role. But the pocket universe was still his
baby....
Michael S. Schiffer
news:e8789e16.03072...@posting.google.com:
> "Michael S. Schiffer" <msch...@condor.depaul.edu> wrote in
> message news:<Xns93C27697CFB6...@130.133.1.4>...
>...
>> It's been years since I read v4, so I may be wrong. My
>> recollection is that a little while after the Mordruverse
>> interlude (but before the Time Trapper was written back in),
>> there was an Omnicom that referred to the "otherdimensional
>> Superboy" as one of the Legion's casualties. (On the other
>> hand, thinking about it, maybe that was before the Mordruverse
>> reboot-- it's all something of a blur.)
> According to the Bierbaum's sourcebook (I don't remember if this
> particular nugget was presented clearly in the comic itself...),
Well, not doing so would have been pretty much SOP at the time.
:-)
> the Glorithverse actually came in two pieces. The first
> iteration of the Glorithverse resulted from the events of v4 #5,
> and did not include the pocket universe, Superboy, et al. in any
> way, shape, or form. However, about ten issues later things
> changed again, when the Trapper popped up again to try and
> bargain with Glorith. When Glorith absorbed the Trapper's
> essence (which would remain within her for another fifty issues
> or so), certain conceits of the pocket universe were
> reintegrated into the Glorithverse, as was the Time Trapper
> himself, albeit in a much reduced role. But the pocket universe
> was still his baby....
I stand corrected.