Musings on Dragonball Z
Sea Wasp
Having been hooked into DBZ through the combined efforts of my
fiancee and Mike Collins' insidious influence ( :) ), I've been considering
just WHAT it is about the show that makes it appealing to me.
I've recently reached the conclusion that this show is a HELL of
a lot more than it appears to be on the surface.
For those unfamiliar with Dragonball Z, the surface appearance is of
a superpowered beat-em-up show, complete with silly-sounding special attacks
like the Kame-Hame-HA and the Big Bang Attack, drawn in a rather silly looking
style.
Yes, it IS that. There's certainly a lot of violent action in DBZ.
In fact, the action goes beyond the merely superhuman to the cosmic level;
not just mountains or cities get devastated, but moons, planets, and I suspect
eventually solar systems are obliterated. One villain, searching for his
opponents in an archipelago, resorts to the spectacular, if efficient,
process of elimination: he vaporizes every island in the island chain until
he reaches the right one.
But BEHIND all this testosterone-stoked action lie some startlingly
subtle and complex elements of the world. At first glance this world appears
to be just another version of our earth, just with a couple of resident
aliens -- imagine if Superman was a more earthy sort, given to martial
arts, and had settled down with Lois Lane.
In actuality, the world is not really much like ours at all. There
are many coexisting intelligent races -- in fact, it appears that many
species simultaneously acheived (or were gifted with) sentience on this
highly divergent earth. There are lots of human beings, but there are also
numerous intelligent creatures of species as diverse as cats, dogs, foxes,
and pigs. This does, at least, explain how certain members of the cast
can manage to live mostly normal lives; diversity on this world makes ours
look positively boring.
Some creatures can even shapeshift to some extent, though whether
this is a trait of the race or only of particular individuals I don't
know.
The best way to describe the DBZ universe is to imagine if
Walt Disney's universe were made real, then advanced to the beginning of
a really GRITTY Cyberpunk era. Main characters are TOUGH to kill, but they
can die. But the afterlife they end up in is truly bizarre.
What is truly odd about the universe is that it RIGOROUSLY maintains
its own inner logic. Unlike many series, both TV and comic book, nothing
is forgotten in the DBZ universe. The super-science that often appears in
comic book universes exists in DBZ, but UNLIKE most comic universes, who
go to great lengths to either eliminate the technology or to ignore its
existence after it fulfills the plot device, in DBZ the super-science has
become a part of the world. It's as accepted as technology is today.
No ridiculous plot devices are used to try to prevent other people
from acquiring super-powers like the main characters, either. While certain
races, such as the Cyagen, are shown to have a special proclivity for
great power, even ordinary human beings CAN learn the special skills to
become "Z-warriors". In this case, it's a simple and logical fact of the
world that prevents there from being thousands of superpowered warriors
running around: firstly, that adequate teachers are very rare (offhand,
in DBZ, at best you'd only have Kame-senin, Piccolo, Gokuu, and maybe
Kuririn), and second, it takes A LOT of effort. You have to work AWFULLY
hard to acheive that level.
Speaking of effort, that's another appealing part of it. The combats
DO drag on a bit, sometimes MORE than a bit, but the combats don't always
end the way one expects. The villain sometimes survives the apparently
ultimate attack, and comes back for more. Teamwork is emphasized, and
Our Heroes pay a heavy price for their victories.
Oh, well, enough babbling for now...
Sailor Wasp
"Wasp Prism Power -- Make UP!
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Thingfish
Oh Good god Sea wasp...just admit it. You like a really stupid show...
it's ok you're amoung friends we understand...no need to rationalize it.
The last line of just about all DBZ movies:
HHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*MASSIVE EXPLOSION*
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Raa Amon Zepol
> I've recently reached the conclusion that this show is a HELL of
> a lot more than it appears to be on the surface.
Hehehh That's what I thought until I actually WATCHED it ...
> But BEHIND all this testosterone-stoked action lie some startlingly
> subtle and complex elements of the world. At first glance this world appears
> to be just another version of our earth, just with a couple of resident
> aliens -- imagine if Superman was a more earthy sort, given to martial
> arts, and had settled down with Lois Lane.
Yeah ... the actual story is pretty cool ...
> In actuality, the world is not really much like ours at all. There
> are many coexisting intelligent races -- in fact, it appears that many
> species simultaneously acheived (or were gifted with) sentience on this
> highly divergent earth. There are lots of human beings, but there are also
> numerous intelligent creatures of species as diverse as cats, dogs, foxes,
> and pigs. This does, at least, explain how certain members of the cast
> can manage to live mostly normal lives; diversity on this world makes ours
> look positively boring.
Oolong! :)
> Some creatures can even shapeshift to some extent, though whether
> this is a trait of the race or only of particular individuals I don't
> know.
Pooaru! :)
> What is truly odd about the universe is that it RIGOROUSLY maintains
> its own inner logic. Unlike many series, both TV and comic book, nothing
> is forgotten in the DBZ universe. The super-science that often appears in
> comic book universes exists in DBZ, but UNLIKE most comic universes, who
> go to great lengths to either eliminate the technology or to ignore its
> existence after it fulfills the plot device, in DBZ the super-science has
> become a part of the world. It's as accepted as technology is today.
Yeah ... I think this aspect of DragonBallZ is really cool ...
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Sea Wasp
> Oh Good god Sea wasp...just admit it. You like a really stupid show...
>it's ok you're amoung friends we understand...no need to rationalize it.
I'm not a rationalizer. Sailor Loon is a stupid show that I like,
without rationalizing it. DBZ only LOOKS stupid.
>The last line of just about all DBZ movies:
>HHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> *MASSIVE EXPLOSION*
Untrue. In almost all of them, there's dialogue afterwards, in which
everyone's CONGRATULATING Son Gokuu on PRODUCING that Massive Explosion.
(The last lines in the DBZ movie 5, I believe, were: "Piccolo-saaaan!" (by Gohan) and "Hmph!" (Piccolo)...)
Gautama Buddha
>In article <2d2rfe$q...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> k...@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Thingfish) writes:
>> Oh Good god Sea wasp...just admit it. You like a really stupid show...
>>it's ok you're amoung friends we understand...no need to rationalize it.
I sense a disturbance in the ki ...
What's to admit? I've already made two die-hard devotees of the show,
and that's with a minimal number of episodes and movies. Just because
it's viral doesn't mean we need a 12-step program ... ;-}
>DBZ only LOOKS stupid.
Every show has its drawbacks. That particular one certainly hasn't
stopped SOME from getting their airtime. (Hello Kitty for one ... ARGH!
KILL KILL KILL KILL)
>>The last line of just about all DBZ movies:
>>HHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> *MASSIVE EXPLOSION*
> (The last lines in the DBZ movie 5, I believe, were: "Piccolo-saaaan!"
>(by Gohan) and "Hmph!" (Piccolo)...)
Indeed, truly classic dialogue, almost rivaled by the ending to movie 7.
I'd like to see any other anime character express the depth of contempt
Piccolo does with that single monosyllable.
(X? You listening? ;-)
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Raa Amon Zepol
> Indeed, truly classic dialogue, almost rivaled by the ending to movie 7.
> I'd like to see any other anime character express the depth of contempt
> Piccolo does with that single monosyllable.
> (X? You listening? ;-)
I'm always listening ... :)
Edward A Weinstein-1
>> Oh Good god Sea wasp...just admit it. You like a really stupid show...
>>it's ok you're amoung friends we understand...no need to rationalize it.
You tread on dangerous ground........
> I'm not a rationalizer. Sailor Loon is a stupid show that I like,
>without rationalizing it. DBZ only LOOKS stupid.
Is there anyone else out there who noticed (and liked) DBZ because of how
it looked IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Just curious,
JimB
Raa Amon Zepol
> Is there anyone else out there who noticed (and liked) DBZ because of how
> it looked IN THE FIRST PLACE?
I did ... hehehhe I like the Nammekuseijin design ...
quattro
> Oh Good god Sea wasp...just admit it. You like a really stupid show...
>it's ok you're amoung friends we understand...no need to rationalize it.
Don't diss the show until you watch it subbed or really understand it. As
a fan who kept up with the series from the very beginning with the original
manga, I'd say it's a good if not excellent series. Just one thing, though
(and those who have read/seen the whole series know what I'm talking about):
They should've ended the series around when Freezer got distroyed by Tranx.
The main cast become ridiculously overpowered after that. Ken, the one video
we watched was _after_ this event, with the plot becoming somewhat mundane and
the fights becoming somewhat ridiculous. Check out the earlier series in its
entirity when you have the chance.
--
Keith Rhee | JACK - Anime Club at UIUC
qua...@shell.portal.com | The Life 2 Motion Project
A boss says, "Go." -- A leader says, "Let's go."
Sea Wasp
>They should've ended the series around when Freezer got distroyed by Tranx.
Eh? D'you mean "Trunks"?
Freezer never MET Trunks, (note: Trunks, because his mother, Buluma,
is really named "Bloomers" -- types of underwear) as far as I know. Wasn't
Freezer killed off by Son Gokuu? Then his brother Cooler came along and
tried for revenge, and got toasted TWICE?
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Hitoshi Doi
Trunks sliced Freezer and killed him (also killed Freezer's father Gold).
On planet Namek, Goku didn't finish off Freezer.
--
Hitoshi Doi, Toshi Nibunnoichi d...@jrd.dec.com
half a UFO catcher doll, half a cel [from JUNET: d...@jrd.dec-j.co.jp]
Gautama Buddha
> Eh? D'you mean "Trunks"?
>
> Freezer never MET Trunks, (note: Trunks, because his mother, Buluma,
>is really named "Bloomers" -- types of underwear) as far as I know. Wasn't
>Freezer killed off by Son Gokuu? Then his brother Cooler came along and
>tried for revenge, and got toasted TWICE?
Nope. It's in volume 28, the first time Trunks shows up anywhere in the
manga. While Goku is still traveling back from the destruction of
planet Namek, a cyborged version of Freezer and his dad, King Cold, show
up on earth. Trunks steps out of nowhere (the future) and kills them
both. Very spectacular. That was the first DB manga I ever bought ...
The whole deal with Cooler felt kind of hackneyed to me, like they were
trying to milk a couple more movies out of a tired concept. Don't get
me wrong, the Freezer idea was exceptionally cool (pun not intended ;),
but the entire sequel thing was stretching it. IMHO, of course. :-)
Does anybody know if there were any movies or TV specials dealing
primarily or exclusively with Bardock? I'm looking for a bit more
information about him ...
Howard Chan
Freezer DOES met Trunks. Trunks first appears in the story when Freezer and
his [its ? :) ] father come to Earth for revenge. At that time, Freezer
has been "glued" together by machines. They think that they can destroy
Earth before Son Goku come back to Earth, but are destoryed easily by Trunks
... the second Super Saiya Jin of the story (at that time, Vejita is not able
to become a Super Saiya Jin yet)
BTW, I agree that DBZ should be ended already ... I think that the best
ending point should be the defeat of Freeza.
+----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| Howard Chan | A fan of: |
| | Kiamgure Orange Road [anime] |
| email: hyc...@unixg.ubc.ca | Ranma 1/2 [manga] |
+----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| You will not know what real joy is until you try all of the following: |
| - play computer |
| - watch anime ^_- |
| - read manga |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Michael P Collins
Dragonball Z by Sea Wa...@vm2.cis.pitt.ed
> is really named "Bloomers" -- types of underwear) as far as I know. Wasn't
> Freezer killed off by Son Gokuu? Then his brother Cooler came along and
> tried for revenge, and got toasted TWICE?
Ehnnnt. Freezer comes back with his father, King Cold (or so my handy
piece of DBZ stationery tells me) several hours before Gokuu returns
from Namek. Suffice it that Trunks also shows up for the first time at
this point, and proceeds to convert both of them into sashimi. Then
cook them.
Mike Collins,mc...@andrew.cmu.edu
This message copyright 1993, Northstar International-makers of such fine
products as The Instant Nation(tm), The Left Handed Marble(tm) and the
Home Nuclear Reactor (tm). Northstar International-"We Have No Morals".
Albert Nakano CBN
>In article <80...@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, Sea Wasp <sea...@vm2.cis.pitt.edu> wrote:
>> Eh? D'you mean "Trunks"?
>>
>> Freezer never MET Trunks, (note: Trunks, because his mother, Buluma,
>>is really named "Bloomers" -- types of underwear) as far as I know. Wasn't
>>Freezer killed off by Son Gokuu? Then his brother Cooler came along and
>>tried for revenge, and got toasted TWICE?
>
>Nope. It's in volume 28, the first time Trunks shows up anywhere in the
>manga. While Goku is still traveling back from the destruction of
>planet Namek, a cyborged version of Freezer and his dad, King Cold, show
>up on earth. Trunks steps out of nowhere (the future) and kills them
>both. Very spectacular. That was the first DB manga I ever bought ...
>
>The whole deal with Cooler felt kind of hackneyed to me, like they were
>trying to milk a couple more movies out of a tired concept. Don't get
>me wrong, the Freezer idea was exceptionally cool (pun not intended ;),
>but the entire sequel thing was stretching it. IMHO, of course. :-)
>
>Does anybody know if there were any movies or TV specials dealing
>primarily or exclusively with Bardock? I'm looking for a bit more
>information about him ...
Yes. I think either movie #3 or #4 was Bardock's story. BTW, I think
it's supposed to be Burdock, as in the root vegetable (Goboh in Japanese,
notice that Gokuu is Kakarott, a pun on Carrot, and Radits is a pun on
Radish, another root vegetable). I'll dig up the list of movies and post
it soon.
no sig yet,
Albert Nakano>
Albert Nakano CBN
>In article <80...@blue.cis.pitt.edu> sea...@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>>In article <CH8H1...@unix.portal.com> qua...@shell.portal.com (quattro) writes:
>>
>>>They should've ended the series around when Freezer got distroyed by Tranx.
>>
>> Eh? D'you mean "Trunks"?
>>
>> Freezer never MET Trunks, (note: Trunks, because his mother, Buluma,
>>is really named "Bloomers" -- types of underwear) as far as I know. Wasn't
>>Freezer killed off by Son Gokuu? Then his brother Cooler came along and
>>tried for revenge, and got toasted TWICE?
>>
>
>Freezer DOES met Trunks. Trunks first appears in the story when Freezer and
>his [its ? :) ] father come to Earth for revenge. At that time, Freezer
>has been "glued" together by machines. They think that they can destroy
>Earth before Son Goku come back to Earth, but are destoryed easily by Trunks
>... the second Super Saiya Jin of the story (at that time, Vejita is not able
>to become a Super Saiya Jin yet)
>
>BTW, I agree that DBZ should be ended already ... I think that the best
>ending point should be the defeat of Freeza.
I disagree. I think the best point to end it would have been at the end of
the Cell saga. Gohan was just, plain AWESOME! Now, he's turning into Super
Saiyan to defeat bank robbers. Blech!
no sig yet,
Albert Nakano>
Chi Tsang
fact I have it and if anyone would want to see it, then just drop me a line or
something. Actually, does anyone have any "Dragon Ball" when Son Gokou was young, I'd
love to see some.
CHI.
ckt.dcs.ac.ed.uk
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quattro
>> Freezer never MET Trunks, (note: Trunks, because his mother, Buluma,
>> is really named "Bloomers" -- types of underwear) as far as I know. Wasn't
>> Freezer killed off by Son Gokuu? Then his brother Cooler came along and
>> tried for revenge, and got toasted TWICE?
Hahaha. Bloomers? I never knew!
Yeah, the name is indeed Cooler. Freezer, then Cooler. Although I thought
it was his brother. Oh well.
>Ehnnnt. Freezer comes back with his father, King Cold (or so my handy
>piece of DBZ stationery tells me) several hours before Gokuu returns
>from Namek. Suffice it that Trunks also shows up for the first time at
>this point, and proceeds to convert both of them into sashimi. Then
>cook them.
quattro
>Nope. It's in volume 28, the first time Trunks shows up anywhere in the
>manga. While Goku is still traveling back from the destruction of
>planet Namek, a cyborged version of Freezer and his dad, King Cold, show
>up on earth. Trunks steps out of nowhere (the future) and kills them
>both. Very spectacular. That was the first DB manga I ever bought ...
>The whole deal with Cooler felt kind of hackneyed to me, like they were
>trying to milk a couple more movies out of a tired concept. Don't get
>me wrong, the Freezer idea was exceptionally cool (pun not intended ;),
>but the entire sequel thing was stretching it. IMHO, of course. :-)
>Does anybody know if there were any movies or TV specials dealing
>primarily or exclusively with Bardock? I'm looking for a bit more
>information about him ...
Dunno about a side story, but there was a character design specification
sheet for the fight on Saiya involving Gokuu's dad Bardock (finally remembered
his name).