New and Notable - Standards
Galen Musbach
US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
that everyone means the same thing with
the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
-Galen
Galen Musbach
So, Kodomo no Jikan: 13+
High School of the Dead: 18+ (extreme violence)
Lolicon Phoenix: 18+ (sexual harrasment)
Chibi-Vampire: 16+ (blood)
MoonPhase: 16+ (violence)
A!MG: 13+ (swimsuits)
Dr. Slump: 13+ (tobacco)
Dream Saga: 10+ (on cover. Despite having
a transgendered character.)
-Galen
Galen Musbach
<musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:02:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
><musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>>Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>>US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>>that everyone means the same thing with
>>the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>>http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>>
>>-Galen
>
>So, Kodomo no Jikan: 13+
Oops. Volume 1 would be 13+; volume 2 has
an incest theme that pushes it to 18+.
Akiha
\\\\ Galen Musbach <0th-rascal-moralist@saviors-of-the-jewish-
mythology.gov>
\\\\ wrote:
Yes, Chika-kun did forget to come say how NEUROTIC and
SICK those censorship rating standards are.
<!-- No sigquote this time. Time to go sleep [*yawns*] -->
sanjian
"Mild Violence輸 real-life depiction of a singular act of violence against a
human that results
in minimal blood and/or blood splatter."
Umm... in my book, if there's blood splattering, tis' not "mild violence."
Not saying it's age-inappropriate... but it seems they tried to downplay the
wording a bit, which rather seems to defeat the purpose.
I also notice they failed to cover homersexual themes. No matter how you
feel about homosexuality, it's does matter to many parents, even if it's
just to wait until the child is a bit older to broach the subject. So it
seems like a bit of an oversight. Plus it makes it harder for me to skip
straight to the yuri. ｬ_ｬ
And are we really going to shrink-wrap comics because they swear too much?
Galen Musbach
>Galen Musbach wrote:
>> Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>> US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>> that everyone means the same thing with
>> the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>> http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>>
>> -Galen
>
>"Mild Violence? real-life depiction of a singular act of violence against a
>human that results
>in minimal blood and/or blood splatter."
>
>Umm... in my book, if there's blood splattering, tis' not "mild violence."
>Not saying it's age-inappropriate... but it seems they tried to downplay the
>wording a bit, which rather seems to defeat the purpose.
>
>I also notice they failed to cover homersexual themes. No matter how you
>feel about homosexuality, it's does matter to many parents, even if it's
>just to wait until the child is a bit older to broach the subject. So it
>seems like a bit of an oversight. Plus it makes it harder for me to skip
>straight to the yuri. ??
As I noted in my follow-up post, Dream Saga,
a Tokyopop Title rated 10+, has a transgendered
male with a crush on another guy. Tokyopop does
*not* discriminate between wholesome boy-girl
relationships and the perverted same-sex relationships;
their standards are based only on the explicitness of
the relationship.
>
>And are we really going to shrink-wrap comics because they swear too much?
http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/lcp4p008.png
-Galen
Galen Musbach
>Galen Musbach wrote:
>> Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>> US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>> that everyone means the same thing with
>> the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>> http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>>
>> -Galen
>
>"Mild Violence? real-life depiction of a singular act of violence against a
>human that results
>in minimal blood and/or blood splatter."
>
>Umm... in my book, if there's blood splattering, tis' not "mild violence."
>Not saying it's age-inappropriate... but it seems they tried to downplay the
>wording a bit, which rather seems to defeat the purpose.
Quote:
13+:
Mild Sexuality/Sexual Themes:
Images of a romantic or sexual nature excluding any sexual act.
Includes but is not limited to a close-mouthed or open-mouthed
kiss, a grope (no nudity), nipples present through shirt, visible
erection in pants, with the intent to harm and/or damage
endquote.
I think an erection with intent to harm should be at least 16+.
-Galen
Dave Watson
> Galen Musbach wrote:
>> Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>> US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>> that everyone means the same thing with
>> the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>> http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>>
>> -Galen
>
> in minimal blood and/or blood splatter."
>
> Umm... in my book, if there's blood splattering, tis' not "mild violence."
> Not saying it's age-inappropriate... but it seems they tried to downplay the
> wording a bit, which rather seems to defeat the purpose.
>
> I also notice they failed to cover homersexual themes. No matter how you
> feel about homosexuality, it's does matter to many parents, even if it's
> just to wait until the child is a bit older to broach the subject. So it
> seems like a bit of an oversight. Plus it makes it harder for me to skip
If you look under T=Teens 13+, you'll notice that they consider "fag" an
appropriate word for that demographic. I don't think it's appropriate
at all, if you ask me, unless you're English and talking about cigarettes.
> And are we really going to shrink-wrap comics because they swear too much?
I'm checking this guide out right now (thank you very much for making it
available to us, Galen), and that makes me wonder, too. Since heavy
profanity is usually used by Tokyopop's "adapters" (snort) in a usually
ill-advised attempt to add spice to a story, why don't they just tell
the "adapters" to lay off a bit? Hell, Tokyopop, just fire Keith
Giffen; that'll take care of a lot of it right there, not to mention
make me and a whole lot of other manga fans dance in the streets.
"Incest" is on the 18+ list; gee, guess they won't be licensing Koi Kaze
(which addresses the theme, but strictly sticks to the drama instead of
perving on it). "Explicit Fanservice"? Excuse me, but putting explicit
tab-A/slot-B on the same level as a cameltoe is an insult to the
intelligence of 16+-aged manga readers. Mind you, intelligence
insulting seems to be the agenda of too many people at Tokyopop.
"Masturbation With Nudity"? Oh, so if someone is shown rubbing one out
through their pants or underwear or under their skirt instead,
everything's AOK?
I agree with Akiha; these proposed ratings are neurotic to the point of
absurdity. Get in touch with Tokyopop and tell them to reach up, grab
ears and pull heads out of rectums.
--
Dave Watson, Severed Heads Liberation Front (Stretcher CD-R--sevcom.com)
Frezier Balzoff (aka Ottawa), Ontario, Canada Email--shlf[at]ncf[dot]ca
(Remember to remove the spamtrap word before E-mailing a reply.)
My music and anime webpage: http://eyevocal.ottawa-anime.org/
Yvette Watson, 1942-2002--You will be greatly missed and always loved.
Craig Hall, 1975-2005--Good friend and kindred wild spirit.
Kill worms!! http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/
Galen Musbach
An actual female breast, nipple and all, makes a manga 18+;
but the same breast, on a futanari male character, is only 13+.
>
>I agree with Akiha; these proposed ratings are neurotic to the point of
>absurdity. Get in touch with Tokyopop and tell them to reach up, grab
>ears and pull heads out of rectums.
But Sanjian has a good point as well - they are also inadequate.
Miracle Melmo gets her power from God, a supernatural being;
does that constitute occult themes? Her mother is killed by a
weaving car; in itself, a non-gory death is only 13+, but if the
driver was shown to be drunk, it becomes 16+? Later in episode
1, Melmo has to fight off a rapist, in which battle she nearly
kills him. That gets us up to 16+ regardless. In a show that
Japan aimed at elementary school girls.
St Tail was released under the all ages banner, but shouldn't
it be 13+? Religious symbols and occult symbols aren't
objectively distinguishable, are they?
Ichigo Mashimaro hits 16+ because Nobue drinks beer.
-Galen
Galen Musbach
<musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
> "Explicit Fanservice"? Excuse me, but putting explicit
>>tab-A/slot-B on the same level as a cameltoe is an insult to the
>>intelligence of 16+-aged manga readers. Mind you, intelligence
>>insulting seems to be the agenda of too many people at Tokyopop.
>>"Masturbation With Nudity"? Oh, so if someone is shown rubbing one out
>>through their pants or underwear or under their skirt instead,
>>everything's AOK?
>
Full frontal nudity in a shower scene is only 16+, but a
close up of the breast is 18+ if the character is a woman,
or 13+ if it's a man (even if the actual breast is the same).
-Galen
Galen Musbach
Let us review the current state of the industry:
Manga Ratings Assigned:
GeoBreeders: All Ages (CPM standards;
explosive violence, full-frontal nudity, death.)
Angelic Layer: 6+
ARIA: 6+
CardCaptor Sakura: 6+
St Tail: 6+ (Despite religious symbolism)
To Heart 2: 6+ (ADV standard. Includes swimsuits, and an
aggressive pass aimed at dragging a schoolgirl into a love hotel)
Ultra Maniac: 6+ (Despite Bullying)
Dream Saga: 10+ (has a transgendered crush.)
Et Cetera: 10+
Instant Teen (Otoni Nuts): 10+
Mink, Cyber Idol: 10+
+Anima: 13+
Dears: 13+. Despite the naked-apron bit, and Ren making
several aggressive passes at our hero is his own bed.
DragonBall: 13+ (Mild violence)
Dr. Slump: 13+ (tobacco)
Excel Saga: 13+
Full Moon Sagashite: 13+
Galaxy Angels: 13+
Host Club: 13+
Imperfect Hero: 13+
Kodocha: 13+
La Cordo d'Oro: 13+
Maniac Road: 13+
Onegai Teacher: 13+
Peach Girl: 13+
Planetes: 13+
Pretty Maniacs: 13+
Princess Tutu: 13+
Sakura Taisen: 13+
Sgt Frog: 13+ (swimsuits)
Tsubasa Chronicles: 13+
Wedding Peach: 13+
Wish: 13+
World of Narue: 13+ (swimsuits)
xxxHolic: 13+
Yu Yu Hakusho: 13+
Those Who Hunt Elves: 15+ in volumes with nudity,
13+ otherwise.
Alien Nine: 16+
Black Cat: 16+
Case Closed: 16+
Cheeky Angel: 16+
Chibi-Vampire: 16+ (blood)
Chobits: 16+
Happy Hustle High: 16+ (sex)
Hayate the Combat Butler: 16+ (moderate gore)
Here is Greenwood: 16+ (Why? Topless guys are only 13+)
Hyper Police: 16+
Love Hina: 16+
MoonPhase: 16+ (violence)
Read or Die: 16+
Read or Dream: 16+
Steel Angel Kurumi: 16+
Tail of the Moon: 16+ (sexual situations)
Tenshi Ja Nai: 16+
Tuxedo Gin: 16+
Estimated:
>High School of the Dead: 18+ (extreme violence)
http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/HSotD_%5bXLG%5d_c1_p004.jpg
>Lolicon Phoenix: 18+ (sexual harrasment)
http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/lcp4p008.png
A!MG: 13+ (swimsuits)
-Galen
Dave Watson
> On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:02:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
> <musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>> US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>> that everyone means the same thing with
>> the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>> http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>>
> Let us review the current state of the industry:
> Manga Ratings Assigned:
>
> GeoBreeders: All Ages (CPM standards;
> explosive violence, full-frontal nudity, death.)
CPM pruned nipples off of women's breasts for this series. In fact,
ISTR you were the one who posted some scans of the raw manga that proved
this.
Galen Musbach
<aj...@fuspamma.freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>Galen Musbach wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:02:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
>> <musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>>> US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>>> that everyone means the same thing with
>>> the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>>> http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>>>
>> Let us review the current state of the industry:
>> Manga Ratings Assigned:
>>
>> GeoBreeders: All Ages (CPM standards;
>> explosive violence, full-frontal nudity, death.)
>
>CPM pruned nipples off of women's breasts for this series. In fact,
>ISTR you were the one who posted some scans of the raw manga that proved
>this.
Yes, they did, and I did. But the Tokyopop standard differentiates
between breasts and nudity, and the bathtime meetings are
still nudity even if their breasts have been taped.
-Galen
Galen Musbach
<musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:40:49 -0500, Dave Watson
><aj...@fuspamma.freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>
>>Galen Musbach wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:02:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
>>> <musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>>>> US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>>>> that everyone means the same thing with
>>>> the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>>>> http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>>>>
>>> Let us review the current state of the industry:
>>> Manga Ratings Assigned:
>>>
>>> GeoBreeders: All Ages (CPM standards;
>>> explosive violence, full-frontal nudity, death.)
>>
>>CPM pruned nipples off of women's breasts for this series. In fact,
>>ISTR you were the one who posted some scans of the raw manga that proved
>>this.
>Yes, they did, and I did. But the Tokyopop standard differentiates
>between breasts and nudity, and the bathtime meetings are
>still nudity even if their breasts have been taped.
Let me consider the point further. Tokyopop is trying to
protect their retailers by creating a system where only obvious
parental negligence would result in young children being
traumatized by material that is simply too much for their
undeveloped minds. Since retailers carry material from
several companies, such a system needs to set an industry
standard if it is to be effective.
I took the Japanese GeoBreeders volumes down to
my local retailers, and they assured me that the standards of
this community regarded the original material as 18+. The
intent of the CPM editing was to bring that down to 16+,
which they did -- and then labelled it as "all ages". They
would have done better to follow the Dark Horse example
and use no labels at all on non-18+ material.
This illustrates the importance of standardizing the meaning
of the labels. My listing of current ratings suggests to me
that, for the most part, there are only a few manga that
are oddly labeled - and the real problem is with "all ages"
being used to mean "not 18+".
The Tokyopop standard puts a neurotic importance on
breasts, but that is the fault of US culture; I don't think
Stu himself spends all that much time thinking about them.
It also emphasizes gory violence, where I would say
that intense violence has more to do with the level of
intimidation than the level of injury. The violence standard
also allows only a singular act of violence; multiple acts
of violence is automatically 18+.
-Galen
Dave Watson
> Let me consider the point further. Tokyopop is trying to
> protect their retailers by creating a system where only obvious
> parental negligence would result in young children being
> traumatized by material that is simply too much for their
> undeveloped minds.
Which brings around the crux of the whole ratings/censorship dilemma:
Parents. All of these things are the direct results of Western parents
being too chicken/lazy/stupid to do the job that they should have taken
on when they decided to breed. If the manga and anime companies had any
balls and brains, they would flip any complaints by "concerned parents"
right back at them. They'd say things like, "Excuse me, but if your kid
is old enough to even begin to comprehend some of the things in here,
why haven't you taught them yet about what they are, what they mean, and
the consequences of these things occurring in the real world? Raising
your kid is your job--not ours. Don't keep kids ignorant; that only
makes it easier for them to become victims."
bobbie sellers
Do these theorhetical children to be protected by these so-called
standards watch TV news coverage or read newspapers. I ask because
i listened to the radio and read newspapers when I was young back in
the 1940s and 1950s and then as now all the themes of violence and
sexuality were presented by the media though with my limited understanding
I was less inflenced by them than by Sunday School and bible study
classes where we read ancient stories of adultry and murder. See King
David's treatment of his general Uriah. For incest see the daughters of
Lot wanted who got him drunk to lay with him to preserve his line.
So we see that the very basis (according to some folks) of
civilisation as we know it is filled with the stories of mankind's
follies and crimes. If we were to go to the Greek classics or tales
of the Romans we would find the same.
Because manga and anime are full of stories of folly and crime
like veritable history should we try to prevent children from reading
either?
later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
Ningen banji Human beings do
Samazama no Every single kind
Baka a suru Of stupid thing
--- 117th edition of Haifu Yanagidaru published in 1832
Galen Musbach
<aj...@fuspamma.freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>Galen Musbach wrote:
>> Let me consider the point further. Tokyopop is trying to
>> protect their retailers by creating a system where only obvious
>> parental negligence would result in young children being
>> traumatized by material that is simply too much for their
>> undeveloped minds.
>
>Which brings around the crux of the whole ratings/censorship dilemma:
>Parents. All of these things are the direct results of Western parents
>being too chicken/lazy/stupid to do the job that they should have taken
>on when they decided to breed. If the manga and anime companies had any
>balls and brains, they would flip any complaints by "concerned parents"
>right back at them. They'd say things like, "Excuse me, but if your kid
>is old enough to even begin to comprehend some of the things in here,
>why haven't you taught them yet about what they are, what they mean, and
>the consequences of these things occurring in the real world? Raising
>your kid is your job--not ours. Don't keep kids ignorant; that only
>makes it easier for them to become victims."
In episode 1 of Miracle Melmo, which was aimed at pre-adolescents,
Melmo is intimidated into getting into a car with a stranger, who
takes her out into the wilderness and attempts to rape her.
As I said in my review:
http://magicalgirlacademy.nekomimicon.net/texts/Melmo.htm
there's something to be said for being honest
with kids that the world is a dangerous place.
OTOH, Tokyopop and Viz are said to control 95% of the
current US manga market; a Comic Code Authority type
backlash of official government censorship restricting all
content not suited for 10 year olds would be very bad
for them. The Right has grown very powerful in the US
recently, and as the pendulum starts to swing the other
way, a militant repression of the resurgent Left becomes
ever more likely. Even if the current Standards are poorly
written -- and they are -- it shows that the industry is
exercising due diligence in voluntary regulation and
adoption of consistent moral standards.
Stu Levy is a business man, and I'm confident that this
is a business move to protect his business interests from
politically motivated interference.
-Galen
Galen Musbach
<bli...@SPAMcalifornia.com> wrote:
>
> Because manga and anime are full of stories of folly and crime
>like veritable history should we try to prevent children from reading
>either?
>
> later
> bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
These labels do not alter the content of the books
in the slightest, and Tokyopop has been opposed
to censoring manga since they took a bath on it years
ago. The labels help *parents* to decide what their
children are allowed to read, which is who should
make the decision. And in practice, most parents
are going to throw money at the kid and never even
glance at the book he buys with it.
So what does the standard accomplish? Stu isn't
protecting children, he's protecting retailers. He's
establishing due diligence so that parents wanting
to get rich by playing the jury lottery have to overcome
a fairly respectable hurdle of contributory negligence.
-Galen
Chika
Dave Watson <aj...@fuspamma.freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
> Galen Musbach wrote:
> > Let me consider the point further. Tokyopop is trying to
> > protect their retailers by creating a system where only obvious
> > parental negligence would result in young children being
> > traumatized by material that is simply too much for their
> > undeveloped minds.
> Which brings around the crux of the whole ratings/censorship dilemma:
> Parents. All of these things are the direct results of Western parents
> being too chicken/lazy/stupid to do the job that they should have taken
> on when they decided to breed. If the manga and anime companies had any
> balls and brains, they would flip any complaints by "concerned parents"
> right back at them. They'd say things like, "Excuse me, but if your kid
> is old enough to even begin to comprehend some of the things in here,
> why haven't you taught them yet about what they are, what they mean, and
> the consequences of these things occurring in the real world? Raising
> your kid is your job--not ours. Don't keep kids ignorant; that only
> makes it easier for them to become victims."
That could apply to virtually any medium or genre you could mention. Too
often, parents prefer to abdicate their responsibilities to television,
computers and so forth, and never take any real interest in what is
happening until it is either too late or else they pick up some abstract
out of context and blow it up out of proportion.
I still say that Mrs. Browlowski (sp? perhaps I might have been better to
say "Kyle's Mom" or "Big Fat Bitch") in South Park is a prime model of
such a person.
Here you have a problem. These people often shout louder than most folk,
and politicians, not to mention the sleazier parts of the tabloid press,
love to play on public sympathies using such campaigns. "Preserve our
innocent youngsters from the rising plague of filth that besets us..."
Must be interesting to have more than one face. ;)
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki><at><crashnet><org><uk>
// \// "Word to the wise guy; be nice or be dog food!"
... Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.
sanjian
Then they may not find their standards are taken too seriously. And people
will ask Fred Phelps to decide for them. Ok, maybe not that extreme...
sanjian
Christian is religious, buddhist is occult! Actually, I'm probably not far
off the mark. I'm guessing organized religions, other than pagan ones, are
fine. But then what does one do with the kabbalah? It's judeo-chrisitan,
but is it any different than witchcraft? What of the gnostics? How about
alchemy? Many church leaders were alchemists. Ohh, we have a big ol can of
worms.
After all this, "I'll know it when I see it" is starting to sound like the
purest of wisdom and jurisprudence.
> Ichigo Mashimaro hits 16+ because Nobue drinks beer.
And chases young girls.
And it's not beer. It's spring water.
sanjian
> Galen Musbach wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:02:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
>> <musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>>> US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>>> that everyone means the same thing with
>>> the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>>> http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>>>
>> Let us review the current state of the industry:
>> Manga Ratings Assigned:
>>
>> GeoBreeders: All Ages (CPM standards;
>> explosive violence, full-frontal nudity, death.)
>
> CPM pruned nipples off of women's breasts for this series. In fact,
> ISTR you were the one who posted some scans of the raw manga that
> proved this.
The fuck? Have them hanged, we will!
sanjian
> On 24 Feb 2007 12:17:32 -0800, "bobbie sellers"
> <bli...@SPAMcalifornia.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Because manga and anime are full of stories of folly and crime
>> like veritable history should we try to prevent children from reading
>> either?
>>
>> later
>> bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
>
> These labels do not alter the content of the books
> in the slightest, and Tokyopop has been opposed
> to censoring manga since they took a bath on it years
> ago. The labels help *parents* to decide what their
> children are allowed to read, which is who should
> make the decision. And in practice, most parents
> are going to throw money at the kid and never even
> glance at the book he buys with it.
> So what does the standard accomplish? Stu isn't
> protecting children, he's protecting retailers. He's
And, in my view, that's a service to society, in its own right. If we keep
raising the risk for entrepreneuers, soon we won't have any left.
Chika
sanjian <mill...@vt.edu> wrote:
> > CPM pruned nipples off of women's breasts for this series. In fact,
> > ISTR you were the one who posted some scans of the raw manga that
> > proved this.
> The fuck? Have them hanged, we will!
CPM, the women or the nipples?
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki><at><crashnet><org><uk>
// \// "Word to the wise guy; be nice or be dog food!"
... Hello, I am part number 竟瑎竟喊竟摀端陶
Kurt Pruenner
> sanjian wrote:
> > > CPM pruned nipples off of women's breasts for this series. In fact,
> > > ISTR you were the one who posted some scans of the raw manga that
> > > proved this.
> >
> > The fuck? Have them hanged, we will!
>
> CPM, the women or the nipples?
Yes.
--
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner --- Haendelstrasse 17 --- 4020 Linz --- Austria
.......It might be written "Mindfuck", but it's spelt "L-A-I-N".......
np: Autechre - C/Pach (Tri Repetae)
Galen Musbach
<aj...@fuspamma.freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>
>"Masturbation With Nudity"? Oh, so if someone is shown rubbing one out
>through their pants or underwear or under their skirt instead,
>everything's AOK?
Well, how many non-H titles show explicit masturbation?
Jungle de Ikou (anime), and ?
(Jungle de Ikou was released under a 13+ rating.)
Actually, Kotetsu (manga) doesn't have tab a/slot b,
but the sexual violence is such that I would rate it 18+.
-Galen
sanjian
> In article <erqef1$610$1...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
> sanjian <mill...@vt.edu> wrote:
>>> CPM pruned nipples off of women's breasts for this series. In fact,
>>> ISTR you were the one who posted some scans of the raw manga that
>>> proved this.
>
>> The fuck? Have them hanged, we will!
>
> CPM, the women or the nipples?
CPM. I'm not into guro, otherwise....
Galen Musbach
<musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>Read or Dream: 16+
Why is Read or Dream 16+? Wouldn't 10+ fit better?
The label says "sexual themes", but there aren't any.
-Galen
Dave Watson
> And, in my view, that's a service to society, in its own right.
Service as in rubber glove. It's another attempt to adjucate parents'
responsibilities to their own kids to the media, like the Parents' Music
Resource Center and the V-Chip.
> If we keep raising the risk for entrepreneuers, soon we won't have any left.
If we keep smothering entrepreneurs with pressure to conform to what
lazy parents want instead of encouraging them to follow their vision to
the extent that their rights and freedoms allow, it would kill them just
as dead.
Sorry, san, but I stick by my argument--the only manga that currently
can't be bought by people under 18 is that which contains explicit
sexuality. That's how it should stay.
Dave Watson
Neither am I. Not to mention that nipples by themselves would be so
small and light that hanging them wouldn't have much of an effect on
them. Hanging things from them, on the other hand...ask The Amazing Mr.
Lifto from the Jim Rose Circus.
Watson
Now playing: The Fatima Mansions--"Concrete Block #1."
Galen Musbach
<aj...@fuspamma.freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>sanjian wrote:
>> And, in my view, that's a service to society, in its own right.
>
>Service as in rubber glove. It's another attempt to adjucate parents'
>responsibilities to their own kids to the media, like the Parents' Music
>Resource Center and the V-Chip.
>
>> If we keep raising the risk for entrepreneuers, soon we won't have any left.
>
>If we keep smothering entrepreneurs with pressure to conform to what
>lazy parents want instead of encouraging them to follow their vision to
>the extent that their rights and freedoms allow, it would kill them just
>as dead.
>
>Sorry, san, but I stick by my argument--the only manga that currently
>can't be bought by people under 18 is that which contains explicit
>sexuality. That's how it should stay.
Ah. So you intend to argue that labeling content is
a slippery slope toward restricting it? I think Dark Horse
made the same argument, and I am somewhat inclined
to agree. If a 9 year old goes to buy Negima (16+), and
the clerk sells it to him, does the content label create
a premise of liability?
In practice, my local comics store wouldn't sell to children
below an apparent age of 13 without a parent, and tended
to eject them. But I think that was a merchandise damage
and shoplifting concern rather than the notion that kids
were too innocent.
-Galen
Dave Watson
> On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:17:10 -0500, Dave Watson
> <aj...@fuspamma.freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>> Sorry, san, but I stick by my argument--the only manga that currently
>> can't be bought by people under 18 is that which contains explicit
>> sexuality. That's how it should stay.
>
> Ah. So you intend to argue that labeling content is
> a slippery slope toward restricting it? I think Dark Horse
> made the same argument, and I am somewhat inclined
> to agree. If a 9 year old goes to buy Negima (16+), and
> the clerk sells it to him, does the content label create
> a premise of liability?
That's a big part of it, yes. This sort of thing tends to lead to more
censorship. I'm perfectly capable of thinking for myself about which
sort of content I'm able to handle seeing, and I get very offended when
somebody tries to make those decisions for me. Especially if it's due
to a climate brought about by politicians who I don't vote for.
> In practice, my local comics store wouldn't sell to children
> below an apparent age of 13 without a parent, and tended
> to eject them. But I think that was a merchandise damage
> and shoplifting concern rather than the notion that kids
> were too innocent.
One of the things about the proposed ratings that makes me mad is what
they threw into 18+. Explicit language (which is more often than not
the fault of the anime/manga company's own "adapters"), explicit
violence, any reference to incest (even if it's not made in a prurient
manner), and "explicit fanservice" (AKA nipples and cameltoes) are now
in the same category as explicit sexuality? No other artistic medium
has these restrictions placed on them, especially live-action movies,
which circulate much more than manga does. This must not be allowed to
stand.
Jernej Simončič
> These labels do not alter the content of the books
> in the slightest, and Tokyopop has been opposed
> to censoring manga since they took a bath on it years
> ago.
Have they? Why is Tsukuyomi ~Moon Phase~ volume 4 censored then?
--
begin .sig
< Jernej Simončič ><>◊<>< jernej simoncic at isg si >
end
Galen Musbach
<aj...@fuspamma.freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>One of the things about the proposed ratings that makes me mad is what
>they threw into 18+. Explicit language (which is more often than not
>the fault of the anime/manga company's own "adapters"), explicit
>violence, any reference to incest (even if it's not made in a prurient
>manner), and "explicit fanservice" (AKA nipples and cameltoes) are now
>in the same category as explicit sexuality? No other artistic medium
>has these restrictions placed on them, especially live-action movies,
>which circulate much more than manga does. This must not be allowed to
>stand.
I don't like pro sports anyway, so making the superbowl
an 18+ only event doesn't bother me.
Notably, incest is defined by state legislatures and varies
in the US from state to state; for example, in Tennessee,
same-sex relationships are never incestuous. So sisterly
loving would be 13+ here, and 18+ just a few miles north.
For that matter, consider Beatdown Angel Dokuro-chan;
that certainly manages excessive gore, but it's comedic
murder with a spiked club, not violent. Since the standard
restricts gore and violence seperately, Dokuro gets the
18+ label.
In any event, media labelling is already practiced, with
Tokyopop and Viz (who control 95% of the US market
between them) using standards that produce consistent
results. It's been practiced for several years, and doesn't
seem to be hurting anyone. Dark Horse rejects labeling,
and that's allowed; the standard simply seems to be
trying to standardize what a label means when it is used.
I can't see the harm in limiting the use of the "all Ages"
label to works that are considered suited to young children.
Especially if using labels *at all* isn't required (for non
18+ content).
-Galen
Galen Musbach
<jer...@deepthought.ena.invalid> wrote:
>on Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:47:14 -0500, Galen Musbach wrote:
>
>> These labels do not alter the content of the books
>> in the slightest, and Tokyopop has been opposed
>> to censoring manga since they took a bath on it years
>> ago.
>
>Have they? Why is Tsukuyomi ~Moon Phase~ volume 4 censored then?
http://www.animeprime.com/misc/edits/origmp4panels.jpg
Dead on. I apologize; Tokyopop has clearly abandoned
their previously alleged no censorship policy.
"I guess torture, S&M, and a bloody stake through the heart are okay
for kids, but not nipples. " - Jim Lazar, quoted from AoD.
-Galen
Galen Musbach
Still quoting from AoD:
Oh please. There already is a TP rep, and our response on this forum
has never been to intentionally try and pull the wool over anyone's
eyes. There's company policy, and decisions made by the higher-ups,
and that's just the way it goes sometimes, but we try to be up front
when things like this come up.
I'm not totally up to date on this issue, but for what it's worth,
it's the bookstores who influence ratings decisions far more than
individual companies. For better or worse, bookstores are *infinitely*
more concerned with sexuality than with violence, they're becoming
more conservative by the day as awareness of manga in the mainstream
grows, and it's not acceptable to change the rating in the middle of a
series the way it used to be (see: FAKE). This turned out to be a book
where later volumes become increasingly problematic, and so the likely
solution is going to be to do a relaunch of some sort for the second
half of things, but until then, this may be the only solution to get
the book into stores *at all.* If that makes you hate us and not buy
our books, well, that's your prerogative.
Endquote.
Notably, volume 5 of Moon Phase is 16+;
volume 4 was 13+.
-Galen
Galen Musbach
<musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
Quoting again from the Tokyopop rep on AoD:
I can't explain the logic behind many of the industry decisions on
ratings, because honestly, it's not very logical. This is still a new
enough industry that things are often in flux, and it's not like
movies, where there's a set list of criteria (and an outside
organization) that all companies use to judge content.
You have no idea how many conversations we have in editorial that go
something like, "Hey, is 'piss-drinking motherf******' okay in an
Older Teen book? How about exposed areolas?" neko: But what used to be
acceptable under a Teen or Older Teen rating doesn't always cut it
anymore, whether it's in regards to panties on covers or nipples in
the pages. Why nipples are so much more horrible than what else may be
going on, or than barbie boobs is totally beyond me, but that's the
feedback we get from retailers, so that's what we have to go with,
especially once a series has been launched. We do our best to evaluate
as much of a series as we can, as early as we can, but as companies
license series increasingly early in their lifespan, sometimes after
only a volume or two, this is a problem that's going to be present for
more than just TP. How we'll handle this in the future remains to be
seen, but obviously displeasing fans and altering original artwork is
not an ideal solution.
endquote.
Phil Yff
> Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
> US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
> that everyone means the same thing with
> the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
> http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
I hope you weren't taken in. This is just another advertising gimmick.
Mata ato de,
Phil Yff
Farix
grubbing about content ratings, as demonstrated below, is a perfect
example of misplaced hysteria and people not having a clue as to what
the hell they are talking about.
Let me be blunt, all manga has had a content rating printed on their
back covers for the last decade. Each company used their own style, but
the ratings are pretty much the same. So now that TokyoPop published a
flyer explaining their system, these ratings—which were fine for the
last 10 or more years—suddenly become a Bad Thing®. This thread is
nothing more then stupid people complaining because they haven't been
paying attention. The only difference between now and before the flier
was published is that we now now the specifics of how TokyoPop applies
their ratings to their books. But nothing has really changed.
Farix
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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Phil Yff
You still sound like you're taking these 'standards' seriously. You can
tell from the brochure that this is not substance, it's hype. For one
thing, it looks like you have to be older than 18 to read the rating
system. It contains more graphic violence, sexual references, hate
expletives, disrespect towards religion, etc. than any manga that I've ever
read.
I notice that Tokyo Pop nowhere applies the term 'standard' to this
sensationalistic brochure. Although the great thing about standards is we
have so many of them (joke), a single company cannot put out standards for
an industry. They can have internal standards. From a consumer's
standpoint this is called consistency. If the company adheres to its
internal standards, it is consistent. If it does not adhere to its
internal standards or if it has no standards or poor standards, then it is
inconsistent. Had Tokyo Pop put out a serious ratings system, they would
be stating in essence that they had been inconsistent in the past and had
resolved to be more consistent in the future.
Galen Musbach
wrote:
Looks more like damage control to me:
Moon phase volume 4 (rated 13+), I quote:
"Since none of the artwork has been flipped or altered,
readers get to experience the story just as the creator
intended."
In fact, Elfriede's nipples were removed from these panels:
http://www.animeprime.com/misc/edits/origmp4panels.jpg
(Although Hazuki had nipples on page 129 of volume 1.
But that was bathtime, and not in the sexual situation of
S&M torture-bondage; clearly, to make S&M torture-bondage
suitable for children, they need to excise Elfriede's nipples.)
-Galen
Phil Yff
> OTOH, Tokyopop and Viz are said to control 95% of the
> current US manga market; a Comic Code Authority type
> backlash of official government censorship restricting all
> content not suited for 10 year olds would be very bad
> for them. The Right has grown very powerful in the US
> recently, and as the pendulum starts to swing the other
> way, a militant repression of the resurgent Left becomes
> ever more likely. Even if the current Standards are poorly
> written -- and they are -- it shows that the industry is
> exercising due diligence in voluntary regulation and
> adoption of consistent moral standards.
> Stu Levy is a business man, and I'm confident that this
> is a business move to protect his business interests from
> politically motivated interference.
I'm sure he is a business man. As Ethan would say, this is an advertising
gimmick, AN ADVERTISING GIMMICK. It has the veneer of advising parents,
but its main purpose is to sell more manga by pointing out some of its more
sesationalistic content.
Alex Taylor
> > Let me consider the point further. Tokyopop is trying to
> > protect their retailers by creating a system where only obvious
> > parental negligence would result in young children being
> > traumatized by material that is simply too much for their
> > undeveloped minds.
>
> Which brings around the crux of the whole ratings/censorship dilemma:
> Parents. All of these things are the direct results of Western parents
> being too chicken/lazy/stupid to do the job that they should have taken
> on when they decided to breed. If the manga and anime companies had any
> balls and brains, they would flip any complaints by "concerned parents"
> right back at them. They'd say things like, "Excuse me, but if your kid
> is old enough to even begin to comprehend some of the things in here,
> why haven't you taught them yet about what they are, what they mean, and
> the consequences of these things occurring in the real world? Raising
> your kid is your job--not ours. Don't keep kids ignorant; that only
> makes it easier for them to become victims."
I generally agree (with both of you, in fact). But perhaps "Western
parents" isn't the best term to use. I'm not aware that this kind of
thing is so controversial in, say, France or Britain. Even up here in
Canada it's not nearly as much of an issue as south of the border. It's
just that the market is controlled by US companies who adopt policies to
placate (extremely skewed) US cultural sensitivities. And all the rest
of us suffer.
That said, I've nothing against general ratings standards. The TP list,
OTOH, is just bizarre. I think a "common sense" approach is far better
in situations like this: if you try to nail it all down with explicit
definitions, you are just setting yourself up to fail.
--
Alex Taylor
http://www.cs-club.org/~alex
Remove hat to reply (reply-to address).
Rob Kelk
wrote:
>I'm going to break from netiquette for once and top post because. These
>grubbing about content ratings, as demonstrated below, is a perfect
>example of misplaced hysteria and people not having a clue as to what
>the hell they are talking about.
>
>Let me be blunt, all manga has had a content rating printed on their
>back covers for the last decade. Each company used their own style, but
>the ratings are pretty much the same. So now that TokyoPop published a
>flyer explaining their system, these ratings—which were fine for the
>last 10 or more years—suddenly become a Bad Thing®. This thread is
>nothing more then stupid people complaining because they haven't been
>paying attention. The only difference between now and before the flier
>was published is that we now now the specifics of how TokyoPop applies
>their ratings to their books. But nothing has really changed.
Farix, did you actually bother to read what Dave wrote?
His complaints include:
* manga being given ratings more restrictive than they would have had
if the adaptors hadn't inserted gratituitous coarse language;
* manga beig given 18+ ratings because they mention things that are
mentioned in high-school textbooks (e.g., a clinical reference to
incest); and
* manga being given 18+ ratings because somebody doesn't know the
difference between "nudity" and "sex".
Your response is that he hasn't been paying attention.
The evidence indicates that he *has* been paying attention, but you
haven't...
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
"They were engaged in a calm and dignified discussion of important
issues of the day. No, wait, that was somebody else. *These* two
were all but screaming at each other at the tops of their lungs."
- from "Drunkard's Walk V/Oh My Brother II"
Phil Yff
> On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:02:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
> <musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>>Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>>US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>>that everyone means the same thing with
>>the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>>http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>>
> Let us review the current state of the industry:
> Manga Ratings Assigned:
You left out Initial D:
DD 2- (Dumbed Down): While hypocritically stating on the one hand that it
is 100% authentic manga, the original language has been mutilated in order
to create an atrocious translation that insults the intelligence of its
readers.
The full description of the DD 2- rating using Tokyo Pop's colorful
adjectives: The Tokyo Pop version mutilates the original text. It
contains violence—A real-life depiction of an overt*, violent act
distorting the original story; includes but is not limited to the
equivalent of rape, sadomasochism, and/or sexual bondage (with blood or an
overt sexual act). It contains excessively poor language—The aftermath of
an exceptionally unimaginative translation; exceptionally stupid names; and
an implied raised middle finger to anyone who was naive enough to believe
the Tokyo Pop claim that the manga was 100% authentic.
I'm actually not that emotional about this. I'm just illustrating the
point that Tokyo Pop is sensationalizing their so-called rating system in
order to hype their product. In real life, I did not at all sensationalize
it. I bought volume 1 and found it to be a pretty good translation. I
bought volume 2 (with the 100% authentic manga seal of approval on the
back). I found out the names had been changed (Itsuki to Iggy, for
example). I returned the book to the bookstore. I had to fill out a slip
stating my reason. I said something to the effect that the product was
defective. It claimed to be 100% authentic but it was not.
I wrote a letter to Tokyo Pop stating that if they wanted to alter the
contents of the manga, that truth in advertising dictated that they should
no longer put the '100% authentic manga' on the back. I notice my letter
was ignored. Not only has Tokyo Pop continued to claim Initial D as 100%
authentic manga, but they also dumbed down the perfectly good translation
of volume 1. Thus, the authentic version I bought years ago is no longer
available.
I still buy Tokyo Pop manga. I just don't buy poorly translated titles
like Initial D.
Rob Kelk
<musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:35:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
><musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Read or Dream: 16+
>
>Why is Read or Dream 16+? Wouldn't 10+ fit better?
>The label says "sexual themes", but there aren't any.
So far, there's been one panel with full-frontal female nudity.
_*One_* panel.
In a non-sexual situation.
<sigh>
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear
of childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis
Aya the Vampire Slayer
>On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:02:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
><musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>>US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>>that everyone means the same thing with
>>the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>>http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>>
>Let us review the current state of the industry:
>Manga Ratings Assigned:
>Here is Greenwood: 16+ (Why? Topless guys are only 13+)
There is an overt gay relationship (no sex). And a woman tries (half
heartedly) to have sex with an 8yo whom she thought was a girl but is
actually a boy.
--
"Care must be exorcised when handring Opiticar System as it is apts to
be sticked by dusts and hand-fat." --Japanese Translators
"Keep your fingers off the lens." --Elton Byington, English Translator
Galen Musbach
wrote:
>
>I'm sure he is a business man. As Ethan would say, this is an advertising
>gimmick, AN ADVERTISING GIMMICK. It has the veneer of advising parents,
>but its main purpose is to sell more manga by pointing out some of its more
>sensationalistic content.
Sounds likely, I admit; if the document was written
by an ad-man, that explains why it consists entirely
of fragments with no coherent rhetorical structure.
In other news, a US soft drink company buried a gold
coin "somewhere" in a Boston graveyard, and offered
a $1 million reward to whoever found it. Boston has
learned their lesson; the ad campaign was noticed
as soon as people armed with shovels gathered at
the cemetery gates, and police response was swift
and effective.
-Galen
Galen Musbach
<ry...@gehennom.rmv.this.part.net> wrote:
>Galen Musbach <musb...@adelphia.net> wa rec.arts.manga ni hanashite imashita:
>>On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:02:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
>><musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>>Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>>>US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>>>that everyone means the same thing with
>>>the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>>>http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>>>
>>Let us review the current state of the industry:
>>Manga Ratings Assigned:
>
>>Here is Greenwood: 16+ (Why? Topless guys are only 13+)
>
>There is an overt gay relationship (no sex). And a woman tries (half
>heartedly) to have sex with an 8yo whom she thought was a girl but is
>actually a boy.
Neither of those is a problem, so long as she wasn't
a family member of the child she tried to molest.
("Grope, no nudity: 13+")
But you are correct nonetheless -- the kid collected
30,000 yen for sex, which is prostitution, which is 16+.
-Galen
Phil Yff
Now that's a great follow-up.
Phil Yff
I thought it is a little under $300 depending on the exchange rate. ^-^
Phil Yff
Clearly.
Jernej Simončič
> I bought volume 1 and found it to be a pretty good translation. I
> bought volume 2 (with the 100% authentic manga seal of approval on the
> back).
You were lucky to get one of the misprinted volumes 1 with real names :)
(And speaking of Initial D, there's a lot of censorship in it, too)
Abraham Evangelista
wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 19:48:26 -0500, Galen Musbach
><musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:35:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
>><musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Read or Dream: 16+
>>
>>Why is Read or Dream 16+? Wouldn't 10+ fit better?
>>The label says "sexual themes", but there aren't any.
>
>So far, there's been one panel with full-frontal female nudity.
>
>_*One_* panel.
>
>In a non-sexual situation.
Well it's not like she DIDN'T try to seduce Anita, albeit in one of
the hamfisted attempts at seductuion we've seen lately.
Me? I'm holding out for bestiality to rear its head, putting R.O.D.
firmly into 18+ territory.
(No, Orion! Not there! Bad Kitty! BAAAAAD KITTY.)
--
Abraham Evangelista
Galen Musbach
Well, Anita does get a bath scene in volume 3,
but she's covered in suds.
-Galen
Ping Kuo
<musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:02:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
> <musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
> >Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
> >US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
> >that everyone means the same thing with
> >the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
> >http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
I never understand the anarchy of rating system of American video
games/anime/manga, we already have a rating system for movie, true it
is not a perfect system, especially when people equate X rating
automatically to porn, so there is a no man's land between R and NR,
but it is a system that everyone already are familiar w/, the fact each
industry, or even each publisher is pushing for their own version of
rating system simply mean they try to twist the system to their
advantages so it would be easier to sell their products,
I am for a good rating system, only because in theory it would open up
titles that I am interested in, just like late night TV can start to
show explcit stuffs w/ a rating system which can only be shown on cable
before. but of course it doesn't work that way in real life, the
better the rating system, the more censorship/editing will follow, the
more "fuzzy" the rating system is, the more "good" stuffs can survive
the cutting board.
Abraham Evangelista
<removeantispam*pk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <n3t0u2p2oi3u1dmm5...@4ax.com>, Galen Musbach
><musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:02:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
>> <musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> >Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>> >US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>> >that everyone means the same thing with
>> >the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>> >http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>
>I never understand the anarchy of rating system of American video
>games/anime/manga, we already have a rating system for movie, true it
>is not a perfect system, especially when people equate X rating
>automatically to porn, so there is a no man's land between R and NR,
>but it is a system that everyone already are familiar w/, the fact each
>industry, or even each publisher is pushing for their own version of
>rating system simply mean they try to twist the system to their
>advantages so it would be easier to sell their products,
There are however problems with the US's MPAA rating system itself.
Yes, ratings are handled by an independant board, but whole not
necessarily capricious, they are definately arbitrary. Content in one
movie that might rate an R, will rate only a PG13 in others and the
board itself hands down only a decision, and is not open to
interpretation or negotiation.
The critically acclaimed "Boys don't Cry" comes to mind. Kimberly
Pierce had to face the rating's board twice, acting only on instinct
as to what and why to cut certain scenes from her movie.
http://ifc.com/films?aId=18020
>I am for a good rating system, only because in theory it would open up
>titles that I am interested in, just like late night TV can start to
>show explcit stuffs w/ a rating system which can only be shown on cable
>before. but of course it doesn't work that way in real life, the
>better the rating system, the more censorship/editing will follow, the
>more "fuzzy" the rating system is, the more "good" stuffs can survive
>the cutting board.
--
Abraham Evangelista
Galen Musbach
<da...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>The critically acclaimed "Boys don't Cry" comes to mind. Kimberly
>Pierce had to face the rating's board twice, acting only on instinct
>as to what and why to cut certain scenes from her movie.
>http://ifc.com/films?aId=18020
Oddly, I agree with that; the work is
judged as a whole, and rated as a whole.
It'd be grossly inappropriate to rate a movie
on the basis of isolated scenes.
-Galen
Abraham Evangelista
Except that's generaly what happens. Certain scenes are enough to
earn a movie an R or NC-17 rating, but the board refuses to indicate
which scenes do it.
I understand where the MPAA is coming from. They want to avoid being
seen as a centralized censorship board. But really, the ARE a defacto
censorship board. By giving a film an NC17 rating, they're basically
killing any chance of wide distribution. And without an appeal or a
guideline, a producer who WANTS wide distribution has to pay for a
second review, without any real indication as to whether or not they
have a better chance.
But really, for the most part, the board works. It's only in the rare
case like "Boys don't cry" where it shwos its wearknesses.
--
Abraham Evangelista
Eric Schwartz
> Except that's generaly what happens. Certain scenes are enough to
> earn a movie an R or NC-17 rating, but the board refuses to indicate
> which scenes do it.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The guys behind the South Park movie
contrasted their experience doing the SP movie vs. doing Team
America-- with the SP movie, it'd get returned with a NC-17 rating,
occasionally noting which scenes were problematic, but not why. So
they'd recut it to make it, if possible, even WORSE, and get back
another rating, and so on. Whereas with TA:WP, they'd get back
helpful notes explaining which parts of which scenes were problematic,
and helpful suggestions as to what they could do about it.
It's merely a coincidence that SP:BLAU was produced by Comedy
Partners, and TA:WP was produced by Paramount, of course. I wouldn't
want to appear to criticize the objectivity of the MPAA board. :-\
-=Eric
Phil Yff
> on Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:27:18 -0500, Phil Yff wrote:
>
>> I bought volume 1 and found it to be a pretty good translation. I
>> bought volume 2 (with the 100% authentic manga seal of approval on the
>> back).
>
> You were lucky to get one of the misprinted volumes 1 with real names :)
>
> (And speaking of Initial D, there's a lot of censorship in it, too)
It wasn't a misprint. After the first volume was printed some Tokyo Pop
rocket scientist decided to dumb down the names beginning with the second
volume. There was some half-baked excuse in the second volume about
changing them to align with the anime that was scheduled to come out at the
end of the year. I made a mental note not to buy the anime and returned
the volume 2. I never checked to see if the translation of the anime was
as bad as the manga. Later, Tokyo Pop republished volume 1 with the bogus
names.
Gerardo Campos
> On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:02:16 -0500, Galen Musbach
> <musb...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>>Tokyopop has decided to standardize the
>>US Industry manga/anime ratings system so
>>that everyone means the same thing with
>>the letters they put on the cover. Here's it is:
>>http://galensattic.nekomimicon.net/rating_flyer.pdf
>>
> Let us review the current state of the industry:
> Manga Ratings Assigned:
>
> Sgt Frog: 13+ (swimsuits)
>
> World of Narue: 13+ (swimsuits)
>
> A!MG: 13+ (swimsuits)
>
> -Galen
Sorry for joining late, so this means that in a future, kids will not be
allowed to go to a beach or swimming pool?
Diving, Swimming and Beach Volleyball will be considered offensive for
their innocent minds?
--
Saludos
Gerardo Campos