Drive Motors

[Buck Cronk]

Anybody know of a good source for wheelchair motors?

[Pete Arundel]

Yes - but it depends on how ruthless you are . . .

[Buck]

I just picked up a couple. Thanks, though! And sorry, Grandma! Hope you find a new one soon... just kidding. What do you mean? I really would want to use wheelchair motors in a tank, as they are pretty strong... 24v might be best, but whatever has plenty of power.

 

Buck "The Ruthless"

[Buck]

I think I've gotten into this strange habit of assuming random nicknames just to "sign" my post...

 

Buck "The Guy With The Strange Habit of Assuming Random Nicknames Just to 'Sign' His Post"

[Derek Engelhaupt]

There is nothing wrong with using wheel chair motors.  The issues are that they are very heavy in most cases and geared to run very slow (like 100-150RPM).  Most of our tanks run on the rule of 4's...or something similar.

Joe's rule of 4's.... 

I recommend the *Rule* of *Fours* 

>    4 inch DIA drive sprockets 
>    400 rpm no load speed at each drive sprocket 
>    400 in.lbf stall torque at each drive sprocket 
>    4 mph with sufficient torque for full-skid steer 

Derek

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[Buck Cronk]

so, gear them back up... they're plenty powerful. I just looked at
T081... he used ATV starter motors for his tank, and at 12v it ran too
fast. He had to run it on 6v to go slow enough... sounds like a
definite motor possibility.

On 4/9/12, Derek Engelhaupt <tan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There is nothing wrong with using wheel chair motors. The issues are that
> they are very heavy in most cases and geared to run very slow (like
> 100-150RPM). Most of our tanks run on the rule of 4's...or something
> similar.
>

> *Joe's rule of 4's....
> *
>
> *I recommend the *Rule* of *Fours*
> *
>
> *> 4 inch DIA drive sprockets

>> 400 rpm no load speed at each drive sprocket
>> 400 in.lbf stall torque at each drive sprocket

>> 4 mph with sufficient torque for full-skid steer *

[Mike Mangus]

 Something I would love to do is rewind those ATV starter motors into a more friendly rpm.  It is doable ... just have to find the time.  Heh.

 

Mike

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[Garnet]

Hi I have several different type of wheel chair motors and the
smaller gears motors. If interested drop me a line.
Garnet

On Apr 10, 8:31 am, Mike Mangus <mikem5...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  Something I would love to do is rewind those ATV starter motors into a more friendly rpm.  It is doable ... just have to find the time.  Heh.
>
> Mike
>

> ________________________________
> From: Buck Cronk <buckcr...@gmail.com>

> To: rctank...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [TANKS] Re: Drive Motors
>
> so, gear them back up... they're plenty powerful. I just looked at
> T081... he used ATV starter motors for his tank, and at 12v it ran too
> fast. He had to run it on 6v to go slow enough... sounds like a
> definite motor possibility.
>
> On 4/9/12, Derek Engelhaupt <tan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > There is nothing wrong with using wheel chair motors.  The issues are that
> > they are very heavy in most cases and geared to run very slow (like
> > 100-150RPM).  Most of our tanks run on the rule of 4's...or something
> > similar.
>
> > *Joe's rule of 4's....
> > *
>
> > *I recommend the *Rule* of *Fours*
> > *
>
> > *>    4 inch DIA drive sprockets
> >>    400 rpm no load speed at each drive sprocket
> >>    400 in.lbf stall torque at each drive sprocket
> >>    4 mph with sufficient torque for full-skid steer *
>
> > Derek
>

> > On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Buck <buckcr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I think I've gotten into this strange habit of assuming random nicknames
> >> just to "sign" my post...
>
> >> Buck "The Guy With The Strange Habit of Assuming Random Nicknames Just to
> >> 'Sign' His Post"
>
> >> On Monday, April 9, 2012 6:55:33 PM UTC-5, Buck wrote:
>
> >>> I just picked up a couple. Thanks, though! And sorry, Grandma! Hope you
> >>> find a new one soon... just kidding. What do you mean? I really would
> >>> want
> >>> to use wheelchair motors in a tank, as they are pretty strong... 24v
> >>> might
> >>> be best, but whatever has plenty of power.
>
> >>> Buck "The Ruthless"
> >>> On Monday, April 9, 2012 6:12:37 PM UTC-5, Pete Arundel wrote:
>
> >>>> Yes - but it depends on how ruthless you are . . .
>
> >>>> On Monday, 9 April 2012 19:22:08 UTC+1, Buck wrote:
>
> >>>>> Anybody know of a good source for wheelchair motors?
>
> >>>>  --
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>
> > --
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[Derek Engelhaupt]

I wasn't saying they couldn't, but the reason I didn't was weight.  The wheel chair motors I had were about 15lbs/motor.  You add extra sprockets to gear them up to about 300 RPM and the weight for each motor with gearing starts to push the 20lb. mark.  Now the motors are plenty powerful enough to pull a 250lb.+ person around so that's not a problem.  The weight comes into play when you start adding a suspension.  Also, the shear size of the motors limits the application.  I could barely fit the two motors in a Tiger chassis side by side and that was without the gearing up hardware.  So let's say you get creative mounting them side by side.  Now add the extra length of the gearing up.  Right there you have eaten up a majority of your internal space on the vehicle. For the price you can get the wheelchair motors for, then add the cost of the gearing up, and the cost of the lost space...there are better options IMO.  So by all means do what I did.  Buy the motors, play with them, decide they aren't for your tank, sell them for less than you paid for them, and then buy the right motors.  I'm just sayin'......:)

Derek

[Odyssey...@aol.com]

In a message dated 4/10/2012 9:43:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, buck...@gmail.com writes:

so, gear them back up... they're plenty powerful. I just looked at
T081... he used ATV starter motors for his tank, and at 12v it ran too
fast. He had to run it on 6v to go slow enough... sounds like a
definite motor possibility.

i don't know how they are built, but i do know someone that had used starter motors for his large scale submarines a few years and said he had to rebuild them as they weren't meant do anything more than momentary use. IIRC he had to add bearings, not sure what else and that they ran pretty hot even with a water jacket pump

 

Chris

[Odyssey...@aol.com]

why not just go with the M-01 (?) motors that some of the guys in here have been using? they all ready have been geared down

 

Chris

[Buck Cronk]

Yes, I've considered that the ATV starter motors may not be designed for continuous use, and if I buy a couple I intend to make sure that they're the right kind. I'm pretty sure there are some out there that I can use. Also, where would one get these M01 motors?

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 1:29 PM, <Odyssey...@aol.com> wrote:

why not just go with the M-01 (?) motors that some of the guys in here have been using? they all ready have been geared down

 

Chris

--

[Derek Engelhaupt]

These are them:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-Volt-350-Watt-Motor-Gear-Reduction-Razor-Dirt-Quad-Scooter-24V-350W-/330614848105?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cfa2e3a69&vxp=mtr#ht_500wt_1180 

Like I said though you might find cheaper motors, but if you have to gear them up or down or create some complicated mounting you might end up right at this price.

Derek

[bass...@aol.com]

used wheel chair motors in my Sherman ,one facing foward one reverse,both share the same mounting space.They are heavy but batterys  in the rear ballance it out well

-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Engelhaupt <tan...@gmail.com>
To: rctankcombat <rctank...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Apr 10, 2012 1:48 pm
Subject: Re: [TANKS] Re: Drive Motors

I wasn't saying they couldn't, but the reason I didn't was weight.  The wheel chair motors I had were about 15lbs/motor.  You add extra sprockets to gear them up to about 300 RPM and the weight for each motor with gearing starts to push the 20lb. mark.  Now the motors are plenty powerful enough to pull a 250lb.+ person around so that's not a problem.  The weight comes into play when you start adding a suspension.  Also, the shear size of the motors limits the application.  I could barely fit the two motors in a Tiger chassis side by side and that was without the gearing up hardware.  So let's say you get creative mounting them side by side.  Now add the extra length of the gearing up.  Right there you have eaten up a majority of your internal space on the vehicle. For the price you can get the wheelchair motors for, then add the cost of the gearing up, and the cost of the lost space...there are better options IMO.  So by all means do what I did.  Buy the motors, play with them, decide they aren't for your tank, sell them for less than you paid for them, and then buy the right motors.  I'm just sayin'......:)

Derek

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Buck Cronk <buck...@gmail.com> wrote:

so, gear them back up... they're plenty powerful. I just looked at
T081... he used ATV starter motors for his tank, and at 12v it ran too
fast. He had to run it on 6v to go slow enough... sounds like a
definite motor possibility.

>>>>  --
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[Norman James]

Yes, it's been a LOOOOOONG time since I put up anything, and I'm still planning. (and planning... and planning... and planning...)

Well, I'm determined to dust off the old bits that I've accumulated, and see what progress can't be made.

But first!

I recently inherited a wonderful bucket of parts: An X-Treme Scooter X-360! (Yippe!)

One of these:

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/xtremex360.html

However... The blasted thing is 36 volt, and I'd like a little 12 volt job (maybe 24?).

So... 

Anyone interested in a reversable 36V, 350 watt motor with #25 chain drive sprocket? If anyone's in the DC/Northern VA area, I'd be interested in swapping it for a 12V setup with some #25 chain and sprockets. 

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/36v35mowisp.html

Fortunately, the 36V battery bank is made up of 3 X 12 V (12AH) batteries, so I'll be breaking those out and using them. (heavy lead-acid SOB's)

Likewise, the hand throttle is destined to become part of the speed control unit. BUT! It also has this little gem install as well:

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/36vocoformip.html

Is it good for anything less than 36V? I'd rather have something with reverse... 

Thanky kindly, and if any one is in the area, let me know as I'd be very up for swapping ideas. 

(Read the above as: I haven't a got a clue what I'm doing, and I just hope I don't bodger it up too badly...)

James

[Derek Engelhaupt]

You can run that 36V motor at 24V or even 12V with no issues.  It will just run slower and lower amount of torque.  Do some testing first before dumping it.  1/3 the voltage will give you 1/3 the RPMs.  Of course that is also, 1/3 the torque theoretically. 

Derek

[Norman James]

Hm. 

Good point...

However, I'd like to cut down on weight if I can. (not that it makes much difference with those bricks for batteries)

Right, off to testing we go!

Speaking of which... what's a good way to measure RPM without any fancy equipment? 

---

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 11:17:35 -0500
Subject: Re: [TANKS] Motor swap anyone?
From: tan...@gmail.com
To: rctank...@googlegroups.com

[Frank Pittelli]

Put a piece of tape on the axle and count how many times it goes around
in one minute. Of course, you need to count really fast :-)

[Norman James]

Yea, it's the really fast counting bit that has me stumped. 

It does have a fairly large reduction going to the main drive wheel, so maybe that'll be slow enough to allow me to count. 

By-the-by, is there anyone whose successfully used a cordless-drill trigger as an ESC? I've got a scrapped 12V drill and in my mind I can see how it might work (hooking up a cam to servo to actuate the mechanism), but if anyone has had any experience...?

Thanks!

> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:15:53 -0400
> From: frank.p...@gmail.com
> To: rctank...@googlegroups.com

> Subject: Re: [TANKS] Motor swap anyone?
>

[Mike Mangus]

A low cost model aircraft tachometer works nicely.

 

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0093p?&C=PAE

 

Mike

From: Norman James <me1...@hotmail.com>
To: rctank...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: [TANKS] Motor swap anyone?

Hm. 

Good point...

However, I'd like to cut down on weight if I can. (not that it makes much difference with those bricks for batteries)

Right, off to testing we go!

Speaking of which... what's a good way to measure RPM without any fancy equipment? 

[Frank Pittelli]

Seriously, if you're only worried about "relative" speed (e.g., Is this
motor faster than another? or What speed range does this ESC provide?),
then you can attach the axle motor being tested to another motor (e.g.,
tachometer) and then read the voltage from the tachometer motor to
measure the speed. We used to do such tests a lot to select motors for
driving warships around. By adding a friction wheel to the setup and
measuring the current drawn by the motor being tested, you can determine
the speed/current vs. voltage performance curves for the motors being
tested under varying loads.

Frank P.

[Norman James]

The biggest reason I'm wanting to calculate RPM's is to figure out my gearing. 

If I've got a 6.3 in diam wheel, and an 11 tooth wheel on my motor, how large does the wheel the motor drives via the chain have to be?

I don't need anything exact, but I also don't want to have to buy 3~4 different sprockets to try to get a decent road speed. 

I'll hook it up to the existing drive wheel, and just do a tape-and-10-second count and calculate it from there (figuring high, as the increased load of my vehicle will slow it down somewhat).

Ah, the joys of being a total newbie! :-)

> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:28:41 -0400
> From: frank.p...@gmail.com
> To: rctank...@googlegroups.com

> Subject: Re: [TANKS] Motor swap anyone?
>

[Frank Pittelli]

You should be able to find a basic odometer (bicycle, car, etc) on any
surplus web site that will count the number of revolutions. Then, just
run for X seconds and do the math.

Frank P.

[pil...@comcast.net]

hobby shops sell tachometers for rc air planes to measure prop speed  they retail around $30

and since this is no load rpm...it wont have a ton of relavance imho

---

From: "Frank Pittelli" <frank.p...@gmail.com>
To: rctank...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 2:26:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TANKS] Motor swap anyone?