Go Get A Clem, Folks! Clem H Initial Ride Report - 28 Oct 2018

[tc]

People, if you don't have a Clem, go get one.   I'll even make it easy for you:

Complete builds:
Clem H (and mustard's are on sale for less, here)

Clem L

Frames:

Clem H

Clem L

The Clem is such a phenomenally fun knock-around bike. If you're thinking of the H style, then hurry...per Grant's Oct 2nd BLAGH (pay attention to his last sentence, emphasis mine):

"CLEMS..well, the current batch of H-style (with a top tube) may be the last of these. We sell about 50-50 H’s and L’s. They’re only $1650 because they come assembled to us, but cash flow won’t allow that anymore—or greatly reduced, anyway—so they’ll likely get up to about $1,800 next. Plus, it turns out they cost us $100 more than we thought. It’s not a tariff thing, it’s an import duty thing. There was a change in the rate that may have come when we changed importer, but in any case they say we’re paying the right amount.

Although the plan is for no more CLEM H anythings, I can see us getting some 52’s again in a few years. I can’t see any more 59s or 65s. "

When I read that, the seed was planted (nice, it worked, Grant!).  The twitch got worse the more I thought of it.  NO MORE CLEM H's.  Sheesh.  That would be a-shame.  I know loads of you love the L, but that H speaks to me.  I had a Grilver 59 H a while back and sold it because I was trying to make it into something that, for me, it would never be -- something to zoom around really rooty/rocky single track.  I loved how it felt on pavement though; it had that special something that people can't seem to put their finger on.

Anyway, I pulled the trigger again, this time on a dark green 59 H.  Man, I l-o-v-e that green.  The Grilver is very nice, too, but I kinda missed the green of my former SimpleOne, and so decided to change it up.  This particular Clem green has a touch more cream and/or yellow, though, and it really pops in the sunlight.

It's a stock complete build, except for these mod's:

• Bullmoose bar instead of Bosco
• Brooks Plump Leather grips (honey)
• Brooks B17 Imperial (honey)
• G-One Speeds
• Shimano Saint platform pedals
• Mark's rack
• VO Retro Cage, no tab
• Road Morph pump, seat tube mount
• Acorn roll bag

Yes, it's pretty heavy.  But really, the crazy thing about this bike is that it doesn't feel heavy when you get on it and "Just Ride".  Once you're up to speed, which is really no effort at all, it really wants to keep going.  It will coast forever.  Yep, I imagine that the G-One's have something to do with it, but still, it feels surprisingly faster than you'd think after lifting it off a bike rack.

You sit in this bike, not on it.  It is the most stable bike I've ridden.  My Atlantis is close, but gosh -- with the wheelbase of this thing -- it's like it has a gyroscope spinning away inside the HT.

I must say the Bullmoose bar is one bada$$ lookin' bar.  First one I've had, and I love it on this bike.  For those who've always wondered how far the bar ends come back on the Bullmoose, well, they come back about a 3/16" behind the stem bolt.  They tilt ever so slightly up on the grip end, but that angle seems to work for the HT angle of the Clem.  It's also comfortable to put your hands on the fwd portion of the bar and let your thumbs rest just in front of, and inside, of where the Y joins the bar.  This provides a more athletic position.  On some uncrowded straight-aways today I hunkered down just to see what ol' Clem would do, and -- with gyroscopic, rock-steady speed -- I was flyin down the path in no time, grinning ear to ear.

The Brooks Plump Leather grips are superbly comfortable. Larger in diameter than most grips, they provide a larger platform to rest your hands, with no digging in.  And, with the slightly rough exposed leather ring edges (to which I applied some proofide), you really get a good hold.  They're lock-on's, too.  I had to apply the slightest bit of wd40 to the bar to get them to slide all the way on.

Standing up to pedal the Clem is just as fun.  Again, very stable, and the Bullmoose provides really sturdy leverage for the push/pull from side-to-side.

The few decent hills I rode today (my first chance to ride) were just plain fun.  After riding this bike a while, you get this feeling of utter trust and confidence.  There is nothing remotely 'twitchy' about the Clem.  But again, don't get the impression it's a slow, lumbering boat anchor.  You'll just have to go get one to believe it :)

The stock components are really just fine.  I personally might opt for a slightly larger ring up front, but we'll see.  I'll probably leave it as-is.

I really, really hate to see the H go away.  I love my other Riv's, but this one has it's place now, too.  Have you ever known a big, happy-go-lucky dog that loved to play, could pretty much run into a tree full bore and act like nothing happened, and could cover 10ft effortlessly with each stride?  THAT'S the Clem!

Tom

[Lum Gim Fong]

How is it going up hill? Does it bog down and lose momentum quickly or keep gliding along with your pedal strokes?

[Reid Echols]

Thanks Tom,

Having just had this experience with a new (to me) 65 Clem H, I really must concur. I ran it at first with Billie bars and a beefy front rack, but it felt a bit slow and unresponsive. Off came the rack, and on went the fairweather Bullmoose bars (with a threadless adapter stem) and I was amazed how playful the handling is. Pics is from before I removed the front rack.

[Eric Daume]

Tom, that's a great looking Clem, and a much nicer build than stock. 

I have a green H in the same size. I certainly agree with you, it's a surprisingly quick road bike. My BMC Monstercross has mostly just hung from the hook this season as I rode the Clem for almost every road ride.

I like the grilver even better, though. We should have traded! :)

Eric

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[Tony DeFilippo]

I love nothing my wife's 52 Clementine, she loves the orange... So we're both awfully pleased with it. Best part to me is 2.35" tires (big ones) with fender clearance.

I do like the look of the more traditional diamond frames. What is the story with the seat stays? I know initially they were curved to maintain the same ST lug but looks like some are now straight. I prefer straight though I'm not really in the market.

Tony

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

All sizes initially shared the same seatlug with the seatstay sockets at a fixed angle and the 45 to 59cm sizes all had curved stays to compensate for the fixed angle of the sockets. The 65cm is the only size Clem H to feature straight stays with that same seatlug. The subsequent Clems started getting the new ball and socket seatlug that allows various seatstay angles and eliminated the need for curved stays in smaller sizes.

I’ve greatly enjoyed my 65cm Clem H the past two years. I went from stock Bosco, to Chocomoose, and now riding Jones loop 2.5 risers with threadless adapter.

I also started with front rack (surly) but for multiple reasons switched to a rear rack and traded away the surly front. I didn’t really have a problem with the handling of the front loaded Clem but I acknowledge steering was noticeably slower and more cumbersome and admittedly prefer my current set up (Jones bars, front Yepp child seat, Daija Expedition rear rack.)

Brian Cole
Lawrenceville NJ

[Bob Ehrenbeck]

Hey Tom,

 

I totally agree with your thoughts on the Clem! Mine's going in the opposite direction from you, though: I'm in the middle of swapping out parts on my grilver 52 Clem H to convert it from a knock-around / utility bike into something that will also be more suited to rougher terrain (but apparently not overly rooty/rocky trails!). But that's OK -- it just shows how versatile this machine is, and it would be a real shame if it was to be dropped from the lineup, so get one while you can!

Here's a pic of mine from last month:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnzxWkGBoqR/?taken-by=reehren

 

Bob E

Cranford, NJ

[ian m]

Love the bullmoose bars on a Clem! I sometimes think I want to try out an albatross bar but the feeling never lasts pasts the next ride. Here's mine in blue

[tc]

Thanks all.  It's great to see your pic's, and also some love for the Clem H for a change :)

Lum, you asked about my Clem's hill performance.  Hmm, it's fine up the hills I went on; never gave it a second thought ... but we're not talking hundreds of feet, either.

I guess it depends on the hill length, right?  I mean, one could argue that the Clem is heavier and thus could build more momentum going into a hill than, say, my obviously lighter Roadini.  But at some point, depending on the length of the uphill, that momentum advantage will go to zero and then you're fighting gravity harder with a heavier bike.  No surprise there, right?

If I was going on a 'training' ride (I hasten to even use that word) with a bunch of hills, and trying to maintain the 15mph avg I shoot for when I'm on my Roadini or my old Sam, I'd not take my Clem.  Why would I, unless I was trying to prove that I could, but that sounds kinda silly.  Heck maybe I'll do it one day if I'm really bored.  Until then, I have the luxury of picking a given bike for a given ride.

There are plenty of days when I like to just knock around, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly.  Sometimes I'm riding with my wife and we like to talk while riding.  Do I worry about hills and speed on those days?  Nope.

Do I want a bike that feels heavy and is 'slow'?  Nope.

Do I like to ride a different bike just to ride a different bike occasionally?  You bet.

You should get a Clem H and give that Rodeo a rest every now and then :)

Tom

[dstein]

Nice writeup. There's been a lot of clem love latey and it's pushing me ever so closer. Anyone have experience riding a Clem with a rear child seat (up to 45 lbs child in it) and a front rack w/ bag? I'm on the fence about a cargo bike and a clem. I know the cargo bike can handle the load better, but I like the idea of a Clem as a long term bike (beyond when i'll ever need to tow kids). The 45lb child is mostly on her own bike anyway, the 29lb kid is on a front yepp seat but will be graduating to a rear seat at 33 lbs until he can ride his own bike. 

[Vincent Tamer]

Clem is a great bike and currently my only one. From commuting to camping this bike does it all. Here is a pic in it's current iteration. I might go back to the basket when it gets cold and I need more layers in the days.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0OGWZuqDGlRvYK

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Dstein, I can’t speak for smaller sized Clems and/or those with ball and socket seat cluster... but one thing I could confirm about my 65cm Clem H is that I could not use s Thule Ride Along rear (this is the one that does not mount to a rack or anything and is instead suspended from its own steel rod base that attaches at the seattube.). The issue was interference at the upper seatstays with the supports that pass from the seattube mounted base. My Clem’s seatstays are just too wide for it to fit around them. This may now only be an issue with the largest sizes still using the original seatlug but can’t be certain. I’m sure other rear seats would be fine and handling with any rear load has been trouble free.

[tc]

@dstein, thanks.  I would call Riv with your child seat question -- but given Grant says the frame passes the EN mountain bike standard, I'd be really surprised if it couldn't handle 33lbs easily in back without flinching.  Plus, like you say, once you don't have a child seat requirement, you have a lighter-weight more versatile bike to re-imagine into what you need it to be, compared to a cargo bike.

"As a trail bike, commuter, shopper, all-around ruffabout bike, it’s as pure and perfect as you’ll find anywhere. I/Grant think of it as a mountain bike–and the frame does pass the mountain bike EN test, the toughest in the world, so it’s not going to break on you."

The Workcycles Fr8 is one cool bike -- have you seen those?  I used to want one, but man if you don't really NEED to haul a lot, you're paying the price in weight for sure, so not so versatile.  You could take your kids AND the neighbor's too!

Tom

[Jamo.]

I've been hell-bend on the Atlantis because of it's touring ability.  How does the Clem H compare to it?  I know it has a longer wheel base and is cheaper.  How does it handle fully loaded up?

[Kainalu V.]

I ride my 65 Clem with a 50 pounder regularly, and I try keep the weight low in the front for stability, or sometimes I'll bungee stuff behind the kid (when I'm using my kid seat for my younger son). His brother, the 50 pounder sits on a foam pad and holds my belt (mostly on technical singletrack (on which the Clem excels!*))
-Kai
BKNY

*ripping singletrack is 99% attitudinal, but seriously, no, no trail riding with a bouncing sack of boy out back, Irish strap them first

[Collin A]

Jamo,

I've taken my 52 H on a handful of off-road weekend tours with about 35 lbs of camping gear, food, water, etc. It's handled the loads fine and I can only tell it's fully loaded up once I start climbing. The long wheelbase seems to help with stability when pedaling out of the saddle too, and room for the 2.3 schwalbe g-ones provide exceolent comfort for long and rough days in the saddle (not sure if those can squeeze into the Atlantis or not).

[Jamo.]

Says it would fit 2.2" tires max, so that's a maybe.  Thanks for the reflection.

[tc]

For those curious about tire width and clearance on the Clem 59, I can provide this based on mine:

Tires & rims:

- Schwalbe G-One Speed, 29 x 2.35 TL Easy Snakeskin

- Alexrims DM24 (comes stock on the complete Clem); 24mm inner, 32mm outer 

- When inflated to 40lb, which is a bit much (so conservative), with tubes, tire measures 2.31" wide

Clearances:

Inside fork leg to tire:  5mm

Bottom of fork crown to tire:  12mm

Tom

[Ash]

Tom,

Great report. Thanks..  I too hope that Clem H stays.  I dig dark green.  Enjoy!

When I was shopping for my first Riv, green Clem H with bent seat stay was a contender.  I ended up buying a green Joe A for lugs.

Dsten,

My son used to ride this rack seat on Appaloosa until he was around 46lbs.  A few times we have ridden around even in SF city.  At times I also had Mark's rack + Wald's basket combo in the front. The bike handled just fine with kid in the back and some weight in the front basket. Given Clem H has a geometry similar to Appaloosa's, I don't think you'll have any problem.  The long chain stay is quite helpful for this type of use.

When I was at Riv HQ to pick up the frame I had asked Grant about using the bike with rear seat.  He said the bike is very much capable of carrying that kind of weight in the back, as long as I'm able to handle the bike.  Carrying 45 lbs kid is to the same as loading the pannier with similar weight:  (a) the weight is not sitting so low to the ground  (b) kids move and make the bike wobble. I didn't have any problem.  In fact once the bike is moving, I could hardly feel that I'm carrying such substantial additional weight. He stopped riding on that seat only because it is too small for him.  Now we have a Burley Piccolo.  It gives him his own gears!

[Julian Westerhout]

Tom, 

You're right, the Clem is a great bike. I ride my 65 cm H  to work, around town, and on errands. It's a lot of fun, and draws more admiring comments than any of my other bikes. Here's a photo I snapped of it this damp, lovely fall morning on the MUP I use on the way to work. 

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, Il 

 

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 9:14:56 PM UTC-5, tc wrote:

People, if you don't have a Clem, go get one.  <snip>

Tom

[RickH]

Hi, Tom: What is your saddle height in the pics of your spectacular Clem?

Thanks,
Rick Hill

[tc]

Hey Rick, thanks.  My saddle height is 79.5cm.  My PBH is 90.5, and I'm 6' - 1/2" tall.

[tc]

Wow, Clem owners, keep the pic's coming!  Some really nice builds out there.  Just shows the versatility of this bike, from dirt drop campers to shiny-fendered limo's :)  It still amazes me what you get for the price.

I'm feelin' the need for a Clem convention, esp with what has started out as a beautiful fall.

Tom

[David Stein]

I need a cargo bike for the kids, but I want an Clem. This thread isn't helping. Technically I don't need anything, we all have feet and live w/in walking distance of most places we really need to go. But that doesn't solve this n+1 problem. I can still access my bikes without moving around some bikes to get to other bikes. Big problems.

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[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Tom asked for Clem photos - here’s my son’s little 45 cm, which we call the #littlesilverclem. It’s a pleasure and a joy! Go get one, friends.

[Zed Martinez]

I've owned two, a 52 and a 45. I've tried them in various setups. Currently I prefer the smaller size, and my wrists prefer a less swept-back bar, so, mine's built up more as a touring-commuter-hybrid right now with VO's Crazy Bar. I think this is the 5th 'version' of a Clem I've tried? I'm always confused when people tend to think of them only as casual laid back bikes. They can be, if you want. But there's adventure in them there frames, if that's what you want instead. What you bring to a Clem I think reflects more about you than it does the Clem.

[tc]

Hmm, so, what's holding you back?  It's just money, right?!  I know, I know.  Seriously, if you don't want/need the complete, and it's a matter of getting the frame and some good used components, list what you'd need here and I'll bet you'd have it in no time.  I know I have some stuff to offer, and there are plenty here who've sold far more components than I've ever owned who'd jump at the chance to help out and clean off their shelves!

Tom

[tc]

Julian, could you share which tires and fenders you're using, and the sizes?  I don't think I've seen a Clem so dressed up ... it cleans up nicely...must be the rare "Esquire" package :)

Tom

On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 12:30:21 PM UTC-4, Julian Westerhout wrote:

Tom, 

You're right, the Clem is a great bike. I ride my 65 cm H  to work, around town, and on errands.......

[Julian Westerhout]

Tom, 

The tires are Soma Supple Vitesse EX 700 x 42, the fenders are Velo Orange 700c Fluted Fenders 63mm with a Riv mudflap up front.

The front rack is a Nitto R-14 with tombstone. Handlebars are Chocomoose. 

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, Il 

[Max S]

So, with the understanding that this is a very personal choice, what do the between-frame-sizes people choose with the Clem? TC, it seems like you could have gone with the 52 cm Clem – do you ride trails on yours?.. Do you find the standover to be sufficient? 

- Max "52 vs. 59" in A2 

[Jim Bronson]

I had to move my bikes around to take out the trash the other night.  My Clem stands apart in that regard, it's the only one that has a kickstand.  So I can just put it on a blank patch of concrete in my garage and then it supports itself.  A useful feature.

-Jim

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[tc]

Max,

I never considered a 52, actually.  I have about 5" of seat post showing (from seat tube exit to bottom of saddle leather) on my 59, and I'm not nearly to the point of being uncomfortable as far as reach goes, even with the Bullmoose.  With a Bosco, which comes back about a mile further, I'd almost be reclining, which I personally don't like for any type of riding.

My previous Clem 59 H had a Jones loop bar, which was also nice.  On that bike I did some single track and -- though I felt the Clem's length, weight, and rigidity compared to an aluminum hardtail  -- neither the reach, nor the stack, were problems.  IOW, I would not size down to a 52 if I decided I was going to make the Clem my mountain bike for single track ... it'd feel too small.

Hope that helps, 

Tom

[tc]

Max, regarding stand-over -- with the 2.35 G-Ones -- me parts ever so slightly rest on the top tube.  Another reason that, for me, though the 59 is def the right size (backed up by the geo chart given my 90.5 PBH), it's not a mountain bike for where do single track.  I'd want a frame with another couple of inches clearance but still maintains the other dimensions.

Tom

[Max S]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Tom. Methinks that the 52 is a bit on the small side for me, but the 59 is just as much in the tall side for intended use. Will wait to see the sizing on the upcoming MTB to run the fatter tires.

- Max “sitting on my hands” in A2

[tc]

Gotcha, Max. I know others like the L model Clem a lot for the obvious clearance while maintaining the rest of the geo. Adam and other 59 L owners may have some advice WRT the Clem L vs what we know about the Gus.

Good luck! Nice ‘problem’ to have :-)

Tom