650b ... the next wave.

[jeffrey kane]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/nino-schurter-wins-world-cup-1-on-650b-wheels

[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 19, 12:11 pm, jeffrey kane <jsk_onl...@mac.com> wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/nino-schurter-wins-world-cup-1-on...

yeah, that should give the MTB 650bers a little boost - except the
wheels/tires on Nino's bike aren't really available to everyone. come
to think of it, i don't even think his bike is available yet. anyway,
it's a good option to have - selfishly speaking, it's a sweet spot for
bikes in my size ... and that might be the direction the industry is
eventually headed, wheel size based on frame size. small bikes get
26er, medium get 650b, large get 29er.

[jeffrey kane]

and now for some further clarification ... or confusion (not sure which):

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/650b-tubulars/

On Monday, March 19, 2012 12:11:31 PM UTC-4, jeffrey kane wrote:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/nino-schurter-wins-world-cup-1-on-650b-wheels

[William]

There's rampant speculation that Nino's bike isn't 650B at all.  It's far more likely that it's 650C.  Who cares between 571 and 584?  Nobody among the converted.  It's just now that the mainstream is about to launch a bunch of 584 mountain bikes, they want to claim that 584 wins races, even if Nino's bike isn't 584.  

[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 20, 12:56 pm, William <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There's rampant speculation that Nino's bike isn't 650B at all.  It's far
> more likely that it's 650C.  Who cares between 571 and 584?  Nobody among
> the converted.  It's just now that the mainstream is about to launch a
> bunch of 584 mountain bikes, they want to claim that 584 wins races, even
> if Nino's bike isn't 584.

why would it be 650c? that doesn't make any sense. DT swiss has
confirmed that they're working on 650b wheels and it would make sense
that Nino was on prototypes (his whole bike was a prototype). Given
the cost of prototyping everything - and the positive feedback from
guys like Nino - I think it's a pretty good indication that DT and
Scott will probably throw their hat in the 650b ring. why one-off a
650c bike?

[William]

The speculation is that there have been carbon tubular 650c rims in the Tri-community for years, and mountain tubulars to fit same, for years.  That's been common in the mountain bike racing community.  Not dominant, but not unheard of.  It's obviously possible that DT swiss made a 584 prototype, and that Dugast made a tire to fit it.  

I don't have any first hand info on any of this.  I ride 584 with fervor, and am committed to the wheelsize.  The fact that the industry will be making a push to bring it into the mainstream is great in my book.  It's hard to predict how it'll make my life more convenient.  At least it will mean more shops will stock the tubes and the spokes that I may need.  Since most of the new wave of bikes will have disc brakes, we may not see a lot of rims for the rest of us.  Besides tubes and spokes, the next thing I'm hoping for is a ~40mm knobby, like a 650B cyclocross tire.  That would be kind of fun.    

[John Speare]

Agreed, I’m looking forward to:

-          That same 40mm knobbie

-          Better selection of XC-style sus forks for 584 (heresy on this list, I know!)

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[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 09:56 -0700, William wrote:
> There's rampant speculation that Nino's bike isn't 650B at all. It's
> far more likely that it's 650C. Who cares between 571 and 584?
> Nobody among the converted. It's just now that the mainstream is
> about to launch a bunch of 584 mountain bikes, they want to claim that
> 584 wins races, even if Nino's bike isn't 584.

I do not believe there are any wide knobby 650C tires in existence.

[William]

It was Jan Heine who said it.  Maybe he's wrong.  I did not fact check.  

http://janheine.wordpress.com/ 

Direct quote:

" So I suspect that Schurter was riding on 571 mm (650C) wheels, simply because making custom carbon rims in 584 mm (650B) would be very expensive and difficult. "

[Patrick in VT]

Jan is simply wrong about 26 inch tubulars - ENVE makes them and
Duguast makes a 26" tubular on a non-custom basis. I think GEAX makes
26" tubular rims/tires too. If his speculation was based off that,
he's even more likely to be wrong. Again, just doesn't make any sense
for Nino to be riding 650c, all things considered - especially DT's
intentions regarding 650b.

[Steve Palincsar]

When you say "26 inch tubulars" are you talking about MTB/559 26 inch,
or do you mean 26x1 1/2/584/650B?

[William]

Here's a GEAX tubular tire in 559.  Well, 26x2.0, presumably 559-52

http://www.hucknroll.com/geax-saguaro-mountain-bike-tire-tubular 

[William]

Jan retracted that part of his post, in which he claimed that 559 tubular rims and/or tires did not exist.  He rewrote it to focus on the point he was trying to make.

On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:05:38 PM UTC-7, Patrick in VT wrote:

[newenglandbike]

I'm always glad to see more positive exposure for 650b as well, since I agree that it is only natural to have a prominent size option to fill the relatively huge gap between 559 and 622 in a market where people sweat 1/2-degree ST/HT angle diffs and fraction-of-a-cm top tube and chainstay increments.    I just hope there continue to be good 650b rims for those of us who don't race and prefer rim-brakes.


-Matt

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[tarik saleh]

All,

It is pretty reasonable to assume 650c rim size in this case. I would
not bet against sdt swiss doing a run of 650B tubular rims though.

The tires are easy in 26", 650b or 650c, the hard part is the rims.
Mountain bike pro's have used 650C tri carbon rims with hand made 650c
tubular tires by Dugast or others at races before. Frischknecht used
them in the Athens olympics, and others since. Frischy is the team
manager on that scott team that schurter rides for, so it is an
entirely reasonable speculation as it has been done before.

The argument is:
1. You can buy an off the shelf 650c tubular rim from the tri market
2. Put a handmade 650c fat MTB Dugast tubular on it
3. Just like Frischy did before
4. And not have to tool up to make a new carbon tubular 650b rim.
5. Call it 650B or C, it does not matter as it is all one off custom
stuff and they both will fit any bike.

There is a thread on the 2004 tires here:
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/650c-mtb-wheels-40581.html

There was a velonews tech article, but velonews keeps changing all
their old links, so no go, it was at:
http://velonews.com/tech/report/articles/7140.0.html

There is no 559 tubular component to the argument at all.

I dont think it is out of the realm of possibility to have some
special race made 650B carbon tubular rims, but the short path to
success here is to take an extant rim and gert your high end custom
tire made to fit.

Later

Tarik

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Tarik Saleh
tas at tariksaleh dot com
in los alamos, po box 208, 87544
http://tariksaleh.com
all sorts of bikes blog: http://tsaleh.blogspot.com

[Leslie]

FWIW... Dave Turner, of Turner Bikes, is running 650b carbon fiber ENVE rims on one of his Sultans... Kirk Pacenti has talked to ENVE about rims,too....