Touring Weight

[Kelly Sleeper]

Ok fasten your seat belt.    Here I go.. really I assure you that I only speak for myself and my own desires and moments.  I also am tired .. OH OH so TIRED of people telling me I or others that they carry to much weight on a touring trip.  

You weight weeny tour bikers can kiss my (insert here what you think I think)  Ok I'm not that passionate about it.. however I don't get the weight weeny obsession for so many people when touring.    Are you in that big of a hurry?    

Great and I'm all for you being minimalist.   Have fun.. just don't tell me I'm doing it wrong because you do it differently.   I like having my 25 foot extension cord, my laptop, charging accessories and smart phone.  I like having the ability to sit in my tent during a long storm and watching tv on the internet.

I don't mind pedaling with 80 lbs of gear on the bike.  I'm only traveling 50 to 60 miles a day anyway... look to average about 10 mph and just toodle along.. and you will tell me I carry to much...  

Humm.. hurricane goes through and then you are looking at 20 degree temp drop .. and continuous down pours for two days.. having good cooking equipment.. cans of soup.. laptop.. rain gear warmer clothes was all great... 

Oh wait no showers and really sweaty and dirty.. sure was nice having a solar shower to clean up with including the soap....  the traveling partners didn't mind borrowing the shower... 

Getting dark.. 80 miles in .. calling it a day.. setup the laptop .. log into home tv with sling box and watch tv.. while waiting on a pizza to be delivered... traveling companions gathered round to watch.. and wonder if this was really roughing it... 

Oh wait nice water ahead.. sweet.. I have a swimming suit.. towel and water shoes just for this.. (gotta love crocs at times)  Sorry traveling companion not sharing this. 

Yes my repair bag is 15 lbs... with extra rear derailur .. chain whip, wire cutters, cables, chain links, cassette, front derailur and other assorted junk I hope not to need.. 

Well no it's not roughing it.. not supposed to be rough.. I'm on vacation.. enjoying travel by bicycle... not setting some record, or challenging some super duper worm waggle .. snail jump worlds competition anyway. 

Especially here where you ride bikes in a style that is heavier and slower than the racing counter parts I would think you would see that weight is not that big a deal.  (hold it before you start.. passing kit clad wannabe's isn't passing a racer going after it)  When trying to ride in the moderate speed ranges weight of very little concern.  Or insert moderate execration levels non racing lets enjoy the bike stuff.   This sentence is a deep dark rat hole I should delete but won't.. so ignore it or get it but don't argue it with me on this thread please... see I even used the word please. 

I've traveled with 4 full panniers and a trailer hauling a plastic bike and the average speed didn't change much from just going without the trailer and bike.  Same arguments made for bigger tires... comfort.. 

I want comfort on the road.. extra shoes in case one pair gets wet.  larger tent for getting all my gear inside or repacking or long days of torrential storms.

I want clothing that covers the 90 degree day I had today and the rainy cold 40 degree (feeling like 20) day I'm going to end up with tomorrow.  

I carry more weight on a century ride than some of you do for cross country.  

I don't care how little you carry or what you might be able to do without.. it's not a challenge .. just pack what you think you want.  If you don't want to carry it a day or two in stop at UPS and send some home.   My only point is that you don't have to worry about weight so much.. it's not that big of a deal in most situations.

Ya I know for every rule ... there  is the exception.. exemptions to the rule does  not make the rule invalid.

So make fun of the heavy haulers all you want... I'm a proud one and want you potential bike tourers to know it's ok and not a bad thing to go prepared and comfy.  (insert heavy and comfy instead of prepared and avoid conflict)

So here are some touring photos   http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/sets/72157627604208847/

different bikes and different times.. progression.. whatever.. figure photos are the reward for reading my rant.

It's fun and weight is so NOT a thing to worry about. 

Kelly

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Fun pics!  Why were you carrying the extra bike?

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Sleeper
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 1:32 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Touring Weight

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[Kelly Sleeper]

Well I was riding to the MS150 / Bike MS ride ... in order to keep up with pace line friends I needed my race bike so I took it with me.  Did that for a few years.  Now I don't ride the race pace lines and stop at rest stops so I don't even own a plastic bike now. 

Kelly

[William]

OOOH what did I miss?  Who dissed your cargo, Kelly? 

I say bravo for carrying whatever you like.  That 2TT isn't there just for looks!  It's there to carry creature comforts!  Celebrate it!. 

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Most people who are outwardly interested in discussing bicycle touring are theoreticians. They might know the exact weight of various lightweight tents, but they've yet to spend the night in any tent during a bicycle tour. The most experienced bicycle tourist I know has logged hundreds of thousands of miles in various exotic places and crossing this continent many times. His touring bikes are more Rambouillet than Atlantis, and he doesn't camp, cook, or ride in bad weather. He crosses the country with a load similar to what I carry on my daily rides that don't leave town. For him, logging time and miles on the bike is the most important thing. For me, cooking really good food and coffee is a priority - it's likely that I spend more time grocery shopping, cooking, and eating than I do riding (ok, that's a stretch, but not far off).

[Garth]

The beauty of it all is we get to choose whatever we want to carry .... weather on tour or around town.   The only opinion that matters is the one in your head .  . . but the only feeling that matters is loving whatever you're doing ... .  however you're doing it.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sep 22, 2011, at 2:58 PM, William wrote:

> OOOH what did I miss? Who dissed your cargo, Kelly?
>
> I say bravo for carrying whatever you like. That 2TT isn't there just for looks! It's there to carry creature comforts! Celebrate it!.

I guess that would be me. I said that I think most "loaded tourists" are "overloaded tourists" and that was personalized unnecessarily. I'll stick with my opinion, other can stick with theirs. They have to pedal all that stuff up a 2,000-3,000 foot climb not me.

I remember reading one report where a guy described climbing up an Alpine road, fully loaded, in a bit over 5 hours. I got up that same col in 1 1/4 hours. Maybe he had four times as much fun as I did, I don't know.

It's your tour, bring whatcha want. I was only offering a different perspective.

[Kelly Sleeper]

@william No one person. Without exception every time touring is mentioned here there are the comments about saving weight in one form or another. Like I said I don't mind the person trying to do something minimal but figured it was time to yell loudly that weight is not that big a deal when touring.
That was the extent of it.

[Anne Paulson]

>
> I remember reading one report where a guy described climbing up an Alpine road, fully loaded, in a bit over 5 hours.  I got up that same col in 1 1/4 hours.  Maybe he had four times as much fun as I did, I don't know.

Roughly speaking, hill climbing speed is proportional to total weight,
for a given person. But are you claiming that this dude's total
weight, which is to say him, his bike and everything he was carrying
on the bike, was four times as much as what you carry? That is, if
your total weight of yourself, your bike and your gear is, say, 200
pounds, this dude was carrying 800 pounds?

I don't think you're saying that. I think you are a fast cyclist, and
this other dude was a slower cyclist. I think even if you switched
bikes, you'd still beat him. So why are you harping on weight?

Most likely, *if* this dude was carrying a lot of weight-- and we
don't know that-- he could carry as little as you do, and then he'd
make it up the hill in three hours. And you would still be twice as
fast as he is. And he'd get to the top, still almost two hours after
you, and not have all the things he likes to have when he camps, so
what would be the point.

--
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

[William]

Kelly.  Like I said I applaud bringing whatever you feel like bringing.  When somebody looks at something you are doing and replies "I'd never do that", it is hard not to interpret that statement as meaning "YOU shouldn't do that".  Making that translation is usually a mistake.  I could look at your awesome Bombadil and point to your Albatross bars and honestly say "I'd never tour on those", and I'd be right for me (for now at least).  That doesn't mean I think you are wrong for touring with those bars.  Now if I came out and said "You shouldn't tour with those", then I'd deserve to be put in my place. 

[William]

I didn't take Tim's comment as prescribing the way others should do stuff.  I took it as a statement of how Tim likes to approach touring.  I toured with a guy who insisted on carrying 3 full days of food, even though we were never more than 3 or 4 hours from the next town.  He also carried two pairs of Levis for when we were in town.  Not one, two!  I thought that was silly overpacking, but as long as I didn't have to carry it. :)  I kept my mouth shut. 

[Liesl]

Oh, but this is a great thread; in a long day of meetings, this has
been the highlight! Since I'm no longer a lurker, I'll just say that
as one of the slower, bike lingerering dudettes, I love love love
having all my toys with me, but I have, on occasion, wished I had just
a smitch less with me when I'm huffing up a long a*s quiver (as we
call them) hill on a hot humid day. But on the flip side, I don't
find myself wishing I had an excellent cup of coffee in the morning,
'cause I do, in fact, have my toys with me. I always opt for the
toys.

liesl

[PATRICK MOORE]

I'm taking this thread as a spectator; sitting back and eating
popcorn, metaphorically speaking. Like watching tennis. My head jerks
violently back and forth as I observe serve, return, backhand, etc.

Here is some touring music, for no particular reason except that I
like it and that it seems to "talk" about untrammeled adventure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6IfpZUqERk&NR=1

Or perhaps I've just read too much Patrick O'Brian

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--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
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[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 15:55 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
> I'm taking this thread as a spectator; sitting back and eating
> popcorn, metaphorically speaking. Like watching tennis. My head jerks
> violently back and forth as I observe serve, return, backhand, etc.
>
> Here is some touring music, for no particular reason except that I
> like it and that it seems to "talk" about untrammeled adventure.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6IfpZUqERk&NR=1
>
> Or perhaps I've just read too much Patrick O'Brian

Pass the toasted cheese - and the bottle stands with you, sir!

[Garth]

Hey ... I know of a guy who recently toured the US with an Omega juicer .... about a 2-1/2 pound appliance .  . . .and about 100 lbs. of stuff. . .  whatever works.  . . . do it.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sep 22, 2011, at 4:15 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:

>> I remember reading one report where a guy described climbing up an Alpine road, fully loaded, in a bit over 5 hours. I got up that same col in 1 1/4 hours. Maybe he had four times as much fun as I did, I don't know.
>
> Roughly speaking, hill climbing speed is proportional to total weight,
> for a given person.

Sort of. But that's not apples and apples, since the time difference is from the report of two different people.

> But are you claiming that this dude's total
> weight, which is to say him, his bike and everything he was carrying
> on the bike, was four times as much as what you carry? That is, if
> your total weight of yourself, your bike and your gear is, say, 200
> pounds, this dude was carrying 800 pounds?

In his report he noted he was carrying 80 lbs of gear plus him and his bike. I don't know what he or the bike weighed. I was carrying less than 15 lbs of gear and weighed 207 lbs plus a 25 lb bicycle. He said it took him a bit over five hours, I have to take him at is word on that. I timed my ride using my cyclocomputer. You'll have to take my word on that.

> I don't think you're saying that. I think you are a fast cyclist, and
> this other dude was a slower cyclist. I think even if you switched
> bikes, you'd still beat him. So why are you harping on weight?

Hmm, since I'm not "harping" on weight I think I struck some kind of nerve in this group. The defensiveness is amazing.

Anyway, since I have no wish to prolong needless conflict in a very pleasant mailing list, I am over an out on this. Haul whatever you like, as I have said several times already. You're the one who's got to pedal it up the hill, not me.

[Larry Powers]

>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 13:08:23 -0700
>From: thil...@gmail.com
>To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: [RBW] Re: Touring Weight

>Most people who are outwardly interested in discussing bicycle touring are theoreticians. They might know the exact weight of various lightweight tents, but they've yet >to spend the night in any tent during a bicycle tour.

I am only a step away from this spending more time thinking about and preparing for tours that actually riding them.  That is why stories from people who have no idea how to tour but just do it are usually my favorites.

Larry Powers
 
Get a bicycle.  You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain

[Kelly Sleeper]

@ William   No it's not the what is right for you.. it's the statements that about "shouldn't" or "you don't need that" or it's to much weight as statements of best practice.   I have nothing against anyone going lite.... just the on going connotations that it's inadvisable to carry weight.

[Kelly Sleeper]

It had nothing to do with Tim.. that was a different thread. Sorry.

[Greg]

I'm happy that your happy that you carry 80 lbs.of gear and love every
minute of it. I'm happy that I'm happy that I can carry 20 lbs. under
the same circumstances and do everything you can do. So Happy Trails
to You. Chain whip and all.

[dougP]

This topic is always kinda fun in that we see both ends of the bell
curve. My hat's off to the person who can tour comfortably with 15
lbs of gear (not much to lose there!) and also to anyone who can haul
80 or 100 lbs of stuff up long hills. It's just like any other kind
of travel. Some people can circle the planet with the contents of a
shoulder bag while others need a large suitcase for a weekend. Bike
touring is all about going new places & the people you meet, so
hopefully the bike & gear sorta fade into the background & just become
useful appliances. It certainly doesn't take an Atlantis to have a
successful tour, but it's sure a nice way to travel.

dougP "sometimes 2 bags, other times 4 bags"

[Kelly Sleeper]

Greg 

Actually I don't believe the "you can do everything I can do"   but you will ride the same route and get to the destination.  

[William]

I disapprove of the "shouldn't" statements for sure.  Many of the "you don't need that" statements are genuinely heartfelt attempts to help, I would wager.  Maybe I'm being to generous. 

[jimD]

Thanks,
That's Masterful or maybe Commander-ful.
-Jim

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[jimD]

Love the pictures of the 'spare' bike. That's the way to roll.

-JimD

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[robert zeidler]

Have to say, that's the way I prefer it. Think they still call it
credit card touring. Not looking to set any mileage records, but just
like the feel of the unencumbered bike.

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[Lee Legrand]

You are carrying way too much luggage.LOL

[Frank Brose]

This just made my day. Good stuff. Thanks.