Re: Advice on a possible Sam purchase for a new Riv buyer

[Joe Bernard]

Yep. What you have right now are two heavy bikes (Velorbis and Electra), and one with a semi-extreme riding position and high bottom bracket (Guv'nor). The Sam would be a multi-geared semi-lightweight bicycle that would be excellent for commuting and jaunts in Griffith Park. Keep the Electra for store runs and the Guv'nor because it's so cool. But expect to ride your Sam most of the time. Get one!

 

Joe Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 6:51:14 AM UTC-8, Chris wrote:

Hi everyone,
Thanks for checking out my post. I currently have three bikes; a Pashley Guv'Nor (beautiful to look at if a bit uncomfortable on longer rides British bike), Velorbis Scrap Deluxe (very comfortable and heavy Danish bike I currently use for my work commutes) and an Electra Verse (my "I don't care what happens to this bike"bike. I really love the new double tube Sams and I'd love to buy one. Many of you own multiple Rivs and they sound great but do I need one? I don't do any touring. I commute to work on the weekdays and if I'm fortunate to get some time on the weekends (I have an 8 year old boy not really interested in biking) I get out to Griffith Park here in Los Angeles. Where in your opinion would a Sam fit in? Do you recommend selling one or all of the others to buy a Sam?

Any and all opinions are welcome

Thanks,
Chris

[Ryan]

But a significant investment nonetheless.  Especially if you're on the fence. I'd say if you have an opportunity to test ride a Sam and or some other Riv models  by all means do so. The lighter weight and fine ride of the Riv might win you over...I also know that the good people of RivHQ would be happy to work with you and answer any questions you might have....Good luck

[tdusky]

Rivendels are great bikes but most are overbuilt and you already have 2 of those. I suggest getting a luged steel touring bike from the 70's or 80's or even a 70's racing bike. A more lively frame is a joy to ride. You will also save a lot of money buying one of those. I currently own an Atlantis, Long Low custom, and 2 early 70's racing bikes. they are all different and a lot of fun.

Tom Dusky

Huntington Woods MI

[Michael]

Anyone got a complete Sam they can weigh (without add ons) and report back for the OP?

 

[Peter Pesce]

The question is, what do you want your new bike to do that one of your current bikes doesn't do, or do well? You may in fact want a Riv, but maybe not a Sam, or maybe not at all. What's you most pressing need?
Unless you have lots of money and storage space I wouldnt buy a bike because "they sound great." If most of your riding is your commute, then I'd buy the bike you'd most enjoy commuting on, taking into account the nature of your ride, where you lock it / keep it, etc. If you could commute on a Sam I'm pretty sure you'd enjoy it more than the Velorbis.

Pete (guilty as charged with a Sam and QB) in CT

[Chris Burgess]

Toshi, too hard to get rid of the Pashley. That bike is so awesome! I've thought about it but I'd be heartbroken.

On Friday, December 7, 2012, Chris Burgess wrote:

Wow, I've gotten some really good advice. Thanks guys. Yeah I'm thinking the Riv would be a better and more versatile commuting bike than the Scrap Deluxe. One post used the right word for the Velorbis "overbuilt". It is a bit too cumbersome. I don't know if a Sam is the answer but I admire and respect such a dedicated user group.

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[Marc Irwin]

Mine is a single TT 56 cm, it weighs 26 with longboard fenders and bottle cage. I ride it obsessively not daily.

Marc

[charlie]

Yea Marc's bike is typical.....weight wise. Not sure what my double top tube Sam weighs probably 8 ounces more though. The Sam in my opinion isn't 'overbuilt' or 'heavy'. I think the whole weight thing is a little over emphasized and something Grant has some strong opinions about. Even BQ magazine didn't find much difference in a Ti bike weighing 17 pounds and a steel one weighing 26 pounds (as far as performance). Your body position, fit and power output have more to do with your ultimate performance. I fail to see how less than five pounds will make a significant difference. Frame stiffness, performance and feel depend on rider weight and power. You can't put a 200+ pounder on a light tube bike and not expect it to feel like a wet noodle, same applies the other way with a uber stiff, heavy frame and a 135 pound rider. Riv's 'Sam' is smartly built and heavy enough to last. My own is lighter than my Surly Trucker and probably just as sturdily built. I say get a Sam, its a good value and could be your only bike. I'm making mine my 'go to' bicycle especially since putting drop bars on it. 

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sat, 2012-12-08 at 13:02 -0800, charlie wrote:
> Yea Marc's bike is typical.....weight wise. Not sure what my double
> top tube Sam weighs probably 8 ounces more though. The Sam in my
> opinion isn't 'overbuilt' or 'heavy'. I think the whole weight thing
> is a little over emphasized and something Grant has some strong
> opinions about.

Someone who says Riv's are "overbuilt" isn't necessarily talking about
their weight. They could very well be talking about their stiffness. I
certainly am when I say that -- and I do indeed say that.

> Even BQ magazine didn't find much difference in a Ti bike weighing 17
> pounds and a steel one weighing 26 pounds (as far as performance).
> Your body position, fit and power output have more to do with your
> ultimate performance. I fail to see how less than five pounds will
> make a significant difference. Frame stiffness, performance and feel
> depend on rider weight and power. You can't put a 200+ pounder on a
> light tube bike and not expect it to feel like a wet noodle

That's a common belief, but it's just not so. I have several bikes with
standard diameter tubing that's fairly light gauge: 8/5/8 throughout for
two, and one that's 7/5/7 with an 8/5/8 downtube, and I'm definitely 200
+ pounds. These bikes feel "sprightly," and "springy" and they're all
lots of fun to ride. None feel "like a wet noodle."

The two 8/5/8 bikes are "frame upgrades" -- components switched over
from a Rambouilet and a Saluki -- so I have a direct comparison of the
frame alone. Although the Rivs were nice bikes, I much prefer the less
stiff replacements.

And what on earth are they thinking when they add a second top tube?
That's got to add to the already excessive stiffness...

[ted]

Some folks prefer more flexible frames and some folks prefer stiffer
ones.
Ones disliked noodle may be another's delightful springiness.
Similarly taste in handling varies. The same bike may strike one rider
as wonderfully responsive and another as dreadfully twitchy.
It's often a good idea to actually ride a bike you are thinking of
buying. Particularly if you don't know a lot about it already.
When thats not practicable relative descriptions are good. Like "this
bike you are thinking about is more stable than that one you have ben
ridding".

[Will]

My Sam is my favorite bike and my only bike presently. And I have owned and thuroughly ridden multiple frames made of light weight steel, aluminum and carbon fiber. But I am not everybody. It's got a lot to do with where I am presently in life and what I am doing on the bike. If you think about weight, if its something that you care about, then it might not be the right bike. I never think oh all this weight is a drag its slowing me down. But I do often realize as I am riding along how easy it is to sustain a steady pace. I liken it to stoking a fire. It just rolls along so nicely. And that's one of the benefits of weight that you don't hear too often. Yes, benefits of weight. It's something that you need to embrace before you will be truly happy on one of these bikes. There are certainly many many more riders out there taking the opposite view. I suffered with lower back pain, sore hands, wrists and neck. My endurance was nothing compared to what it is now. And I was afraid to ride on all of the terrain where I most wanted to ride: gravel, fire roads, fast dirt paths and rough stuff in general. I was afraid I would get a flat, trash my wheels, trash myself. That's all behind me now. Riv isn't the only company that makes bikes that can do these things. But I think it's the company that makes bikes that can handle more tasks well than any other. They don't do anything excessively well, they just do everything great!

[charlie]

I see your point Steve and don't necessarily disagree....for me at 257 right now, two top tubes seems fine. In fact, the Sam feels more lively than my Surly Trucker. I own a standard diameter high end 80's race bike with Columbus SL and it flexes noticeably (for me) I only ride it on smooth roads in nice weather. If I were to own a frame with thinner tubing I would be concerned about eventual cracking. That is,if it were my daily rider. I thought of trying a Boulder tigged frame but didn't because I felt I was too heavy for one and would have to upgrade to custom tubing making it too expensive......would rather wait and buy a lugged frame when I am down another 30 pounds from a near all time high of 282. When youger at 175 my old Bianchi felt fine on 23 mm tires.... these days I would trash such a bike.

On Saturday, December 8, 2012 1:21:11 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote

On Sat, 2012-12-08 at 13:02 -0800, charlie wrote:
> Yea Marc's bike is typical.....weight wise. Not sure what my double
> top tube Sam weighs probably 8 ounces more though. The Sam in my

> opinion isn't 'overbuilt' or 'heavy'. I think the whole weight thing our point 

[David Yu Greenblatt]

Yes, sell all of your other bikes and buy a Rivendell. Life is short. You deserve a nice bike.

- David G in SF

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2012-12-09 at 10:02 -0800, charlie wrote:
> I see your point Steve and don't necessarily disagree....for me at 257
> right now, two top tubes seems fine. In fact, the Sam feels more
> lively than my Surly Trucker. I own a standard diameter high end 80's
> race bike with Columbus SL and it flexes noticeably (for me) I only
> ride it on smooth roads in nice weather. If I were to own a frame with
> thinner tubing I would be concerned about eventual cracking. That
> is,if it were my daily rider. I thought of trying a Boulder tigged
> frame but didn't because I felt I was too heavy for one and would have
> to upgrade to custom tubing making it too expensive......would rather
> wait and buy a lugged frame when I am down another 30 pounds from a
> near all time high of 282. When youger at 175 my old Bianchi felt fine
> on 23 mm tires.... these days I would trash such a bike.

Well, it's true, ~260 is considerably different than ~200.

[Chris Burgess]

Thanks everyone. I went ahead and put the Scrap Deluxe up for sale. It's a cool bike and a great ride but I think a Sam is going to be a more flexible bike for me. I like the idea of a vintage steel bike but I know nothing about building or restoring a bike plus the Pashley Guv'nor satisfies my vintage fetish nicely. I'm looking forward to a road bike that I can take to work, that I can take to a park or a bike path in my regular clothes. A bike that can go fast but does not look like it needs to (if that's makes any sense).

Sent from my iPhone

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[Bruce Herbitter]

That's exactly the point, isn't it? Makes great sense.