Freewheel hypothetical

[William]

Some of us still run freewheels on a subset of our bikes.  It's pretty much a unanimous opinion that today's production freewheels are not as good as they used to be.  I see a lot of message board requests to companies urging them to step up and fill the void.  In a perfect world, I wish the old cog-board 100% custom freewheel process could be resurrected, but I don't know if that is realistic. 

My hypothetical question is:  If a manufacturer stepped up and offered exactly one model of multigear freewheel in exactly one size what would you want it to be?  Assume you can replace worn out cogs, but that in the first pass, there would be no cog options at all. 

For me, it would be for my 126mm rear-ended steel road-ish bikes, to work with a compact double, so I'd want to buy a 7-speed 12-28.  If White Industries, for example, made this for <$200, but it was the quality of their Eno/Dos freewheels, I'd be interested. 

What would you want to buy?

[Eric Norris]

I have two freewheel-equipped bikes.  On both, a 7-speed freewheel would be perfect. I'd run the same range I have now-- 13-28 (or 29).  In my experience, I very seldom use the 13t cog (it's only for very fast downhills, when I'm usually coasting anyway), so a 12t would get used even less. Starting at 13t gives me one more choice in the range between high and low gears.

--Eric N

Sent from the iPad 2

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ZjRqC9743ZkJ.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[William]

Eric, I think you still run 52/42 on your doubles, right?  I run a 48-34, so my 48/12 is the same gear as your 52/13. 

[Eric Norris]

The freewheel-equipped bike I'll be taking to PBP this year has a Velo Orange compact double (48/34).  With a 13t cog, that generates a high end of just 97 inches, but that's fine with me. I usually top out at 48x14, which is only 91 inches.

--Eric N

Sent from the iPad 2

On Jul 11, 2011, at 3:03 PM, William <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric, I think you still run 52/42 on your doubles, right?  I run a 48-34, so my 48/12 is the same gear as your 52/13. 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/EVJeRwMuAYAJ.

[William]

So perfect for you would be:  13-15-17-19-21-24-28?  same as the 7-speed shimanopore? 

[Eric Norris]

I could even live with tighter spacing for the small cogs and wider spacing at the low end.

--Eric N

Sent from the iPad 2

On Jul 11, 2011, at 4:36 PM, William <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

So perfect for you would be:  13-15-17-19-21-24-28?  same as the 7-speed shimanopore? 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/i2yeOSG_dOAJ.

[Scott G.]

I use Benelux derailers, they don't like 28s, so a 13-26 5 speed would be good.
A 14-26 4 speed would be nice for the older bikes, 4 & 3 speed freewheels are
very hard to find.

A 5 speed 120oln Shimano style cassette hub would be cool, high flange,
great for 'stand off scale' restorations.

[Mike]

I'm currently using an IRD 13--28 FW paired with VO 50.3 BCD cranks
with 46/30 rings. I seem to have every gear I need. I'd love to have
something more dependable than the IRD. I'd consider buying a White
Industries FW for $100 to $150.

--mike

[EricP]

Agreed that a nicer version of the Shimanopore would be good. The 7sp
13-28 works well on my Sam Hillborne. But not sure I'd spend a lot of
money for one. If the price got much over $100, would probably just
build a new wheel for the SH with a Deore rear cassette hub. The
later SunTour design with a Shimano style removal would be nice. Am
not a fan of the 2 or 4 prong SunTour removal tool (aka by me as the
self-stripper model).

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[charlie]

Hmmmm, I have a NOS Regina six speed 13-23 on a bike I never ride....I
think I better save it for the future.

[dougP]

I've fiddled with this question forever & keep coming back to
13-15-17-19-21-24-28 as the basis for all my gearing, regardless of
how many cogs. When ordering my Atlantis & we got to the gearing
question, I told them the above was fine but since I was getting an
extra gear, gimme something bigger than the 28, the rest is fine.
Honestly, with a MTB triple in front, the above 7 speed covers 98% of
situations encountered, even when loaded touring.

dougP

> > > great for 'stand off scale' restorations.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[rob markwardt]

14-18-22-26-30 plus a half-step/granny up front...I'll take a dozen!

[William]

So there is no dominant consensus among this group.  5, 6 and 7 would all be welcomed, it seems.  12-14 on the small end up to 26-30 on the large end.  That's over a dozen different models already, most likely.    

[rperks]

that is the biggest problem with trying to please everybody.

Example:
I have been happily using 14-28 5 and 6 speed freewheels for a few
years now, then recent failures led back down the garden path of
vintage. I had found a 14-16-19-22-26-30 in a pile of junk at out
local swap meet, it had been sitting in my parts bin for a while, and
thought the spacing and range was a bit wacky. have had it on the
Roadeo for over a month now with my 50-30 up front and it is a dream
come true. The jumps are pretty big, but the middle 4 gears are just
perfect. was able to track down another to keep in reserve, and the
average price between the two works out to almost be reasonable.

Rob
-
http://oceanaircycles.com/

[PATRICK MOORE]

I've scored a stash of half a dozen 14-28 5 speeds (the Herse has a
Stronglight 99 with 42/32 rings on it and the 42/17 #2 cog is the
ideal cruising gear for the Herse at 67") and the rest is gravy. The
13-15-17-20-24-28 Ultra six on it now is even better since the 42/15
is a nice tailwind or "feelin' strong" gear at 76". I've also got
several "normal" sixes in the 13-28 or 30 range, plus two 14-34 5
speeds -- talk about wide jumps!

One day I may half-step the nice Stronglight 99 crank with a 46 outer,
but for now the 42/XX is fine (I have a 32 in the inner position but
have scored several 28s and a 30).

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>

--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
patric...@resumespecialties.com

A billion stars go spinning through the night
Blazing high above your head;
But in you is the Presence that will be
When all the stars are dead.
(Rilke, Buddha in Glory)

[charlie]

After having 'SimpleOned it' I don't see the need for much above a mid
70's gear I am fine riding on various terrain with a mid 60's gear.
Hills can't be comfortably pedaled down much faster than about 35 mph
even in a 100+ inch gear and I usually coast just as fast if I tuck in
a little. Those old three speed 50,60,70 gear inch hubs seem well
though out. I think less gear ratios are fine as long as you have a
crawler for steep climbs.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
> Patrick Moore, ACRW

> patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com

[PATRICK MOORE]

Tell me where I can find IGHs that will give me 50-60-and 70" gears
and I'll buy out the entire stock!

Here is what you get with an AW:

If your 70" gear is the middle or direct drive, your high will be a
useless 93", your low an excessively far away 53".

If your high is 70", your middle will be a granny 53" and your low a
relatively close 39".

Man, if I had hubs that gave me 50, 60 and 70" gears, or even better,
60, 70 and 80, I'd equip my entire fleet with them!

[Michael_S]

I guess I fall into the same window as most everyone. I like a 12 at the top end for long downhills in a 48 or 50t big ring and a 30 at the bottom for those long climbs at the end o' the day in the 24-28 granny.  I like to spin on the climbs so I'm a triple rider for life in my preferred mountainous terrain. With 3 rings up front I can always find a workable gear in the middle

 

~mike

[charlie]

I see what you mean...... maybe an 8 speed IGH would be better.
Actually the 39,53.70 is about what my SO has now or could have with
one more gear on the flip side so not so far off, at least for me.
Okay revised....approx. 40,50,70 then ; )

On Jul 12, 7:54 pm, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tell me where I can find IGHs that will give me 50-60-and 70" gears
> and I'll buy out the entire stock!
>
> Here is what you get with an AW:
>
> If your 70" gear is the middle or direct drive, your high will be a
> useless 93", your low an excessively far away 53".
>
> If your high is 70", your middle will be a granny 53" and your low a
> relatively close 39".
>
> Man, if I had hubs that gave me 50, 60 and 70" gears, or even better,
> 60, 70 and 80, I'd equip my entire fleet with them!
>

[charlie]

Actually I just visited Sheldon Browns gear calculator and with a 40
tooth chain ring an 18 tooth sprocket and a SA wide ratio hub you
would get 45,60 and 80 inches using 700x35 tires. I'm not sure if this
is the correct ratio possible on the sprocket chain ring combo or if
one needs a particular ratio for it to work right but.........I am
elder and corpulent so I have faith that the above would serve me
admirably whereas a younger fellow might find it a yawn and aspire to
a greater challenge of his vigor.

[Rex Kerr]

I really like the 34t bailout gear on the Shimano Megarange freewheels, and somehow manage to get about 3000 - 4000 miles out of them, even though people keep saying that modern freewheels are junk.

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ZjRqC9743ZkJ.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 20:54 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
> Tell me where I can find IGHs that will give me 50-60-and 70" gears
> and I'll buy out the entire stock!

Back years ago, Sturmey Archer made some narrow range 3 speeds. The AM
comes very close to what you want, giving 115.55, 100 and 86.54%. If
you start with a 60" #2 gear, that gives you a 69" high and a 52" low.
It is, of course, quite rare -- but you could always haunt ebay,
especially the uk ebay...

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

I also am using an IRD 13-28 (mine's a 7spd). I have a 24-36-46 Sugino. I have all the gears I've ever wanted. Which doesn't mean much, really, since I live and ride *almost* exclusively in the flat parts of Illinois. But the few times I've been to exotic places with these things called "hills", I'm always fully loaded (50+ lbs) and have never wanted a lower gear. In fact I've never actually needed my lowest gear, though I have used it.

Personally, I can't imagine wanting a higher gear. I want not to go that fast. But I know that's not a universal sentiment.

I've had IRD freewheel failures. I've also had IRD freewheels go several thousand miles without failure. I remain hopeful that IRD will improve. At one point I read (it must be true; it was on the webbernet!) of an upcoming IRD "M5" series. Here's hoping. I'll definitely give them a shot. They shift very well (Shimano 8spd indexing), the cogs wear slowly, the freewheel engages nicely (the ones that don't fail prematurely), they give me a range I like, and they look good. I'd be thrilled if they could simply produce *consistently* the good ones I've had thus far at or around the current price point.

Though I wouldn't be averse to a 100-$150 super-high-quality forever-sustainable customizable freewheel either, as long as it fit my wheel and shifted well with my setup. Once again... here's hoping.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

[Garth]

I do wonder what SRAM did with the Sachs tooling for their awesome
freewheels when they bought them out. I have about a dozen Sachs FW's
and can find no fault with them. I pretty much use 13-32 7speed's ..
though I have some 12 and 13-28's and a 24 or 26. I live in very
hilly terrain though . . . so I use all 7 most every day. I find a
13-15-17-20-24-28-32 spread to work quite well with a crossover or
half-step triple like 24/36/48 or 26/44/48. I'll take the low gears
over a 12t cog any and every day. Unlike Sun Tour cogs and spacers,
Sach are much much easier to disassemble and reassemble, and their cog
diagrams are easy to follow, for the most part.

IRD ..... Does anyone really believe a M5 would be any better? LoL! I
wonder how hard can it be to make a FW that doesn't fail? Very
odd. . . . and their bad rep doesn't help a pro FW cause. Plus, I
find their choice of 7sp 13-32 cogs odd.

There really cannot be a one size suits all FW simple because the
terrain differences and rider strengths. If someone really wanted to
offer a small selection of durable and dependable FW's . . . they
could. . . that's if they really wanted to though. And no . . . I
don't believe it's all about the money. It's about the desire to do
so.

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

Yeah, on the 7spd cog choice... They seem to go to a lot of trouble to have only 9 distinct cogs for the 7spd FW line instead of 10. That 17-21 jump is weird on the non-"mega" 13-32 7spd FW.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean