Big bikes and limits

[Esteban]

I chose my Protovelo in early 2008 as a frame special - a "try-out"
from from Mark Nobilette back before he started making the Riv
customs.

It was off-the-shelf, but it was exactly what I was looking for in a
custom at the time - 650B, all-rounder good for rambling and commuting
- a transportation bike capable of going anywhere. It was a Riv-size
62, which means its closer to 60cm c-c, in traditional sizing.
Typically I like 58x58 c-c. But I was within the limits of the frame
using my PBH (87), although Keven and I agreed that it was the upper
limit. Really not much stand-over, but that's irrelevant for me, as I
use the bike to get around, not to stand over.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671211@N02/6813204791/in/photostream

I used the most Riv-ish parts I could choose. And after 3 years of
riding, here's the persistent thing about this bike: it has a speed
limit. Touring it was like a dream - steady and ready. Rambling its
a blast. But pushing it to keep up or go hard, it just doesn't want
to do that. This is very different from the Romulus I sold to my
brother (59cm Riv sizing) and my Riv Road Custom (58x58). But I think
its an attribute. It begs me to enjoy the view - to slow down and
enjoy the ride.

[newenglandbike]

Awesome bike man.     On cursory judgement by the seatpost and seat/handlebar height, it looks like it fits damn comfortably.    

 

[Mojo]

I agree with neb, that is a nice fit, and a wonderful functional setup!

I have talked to a couple of Atlantis owners that have expressed your 'speed limit' observation,

and I too have observed that on my LHT. The damn bike just won't respond to my attempts to hammer.

But as soon as I sit up and relax, the bike is a dream.

 

To a lesser extent I have felt this in a comparison between my Riv Road custom and Legolas.

The Road rides well and accepts hammering inputs.

But the lighter tubing of the Legolas has a subtle but distinct springiness that I anthropomorphize as  a desire to Go!

 

These observations all fit well, in my mind at least, with Jan Heine's hypotheses on frame tubing and riding characteristics.

[Montclair BobbyB]

There must be a "governor" on my Bombadil, cuz I get the same. Then
again, as you pointed out Esteban, maybe it begs to be ridden at the
"right" speed...

There ARE exceptions to this phenomenon, though... On big downhills
I've outpaced my friend on his Pinarello Dogma (my saddlebag weighs
more than his entire bike), and I swear I descend with more confidence
and comfort... Who cares if he dusts me on the flats and the
climbs...

I hope this doesn't give rise to a new subculture of scheisters,
claiming to be able to "tune your Riv to keep pace with the
peloton"...

Peace,
BB

[Esteban]

What's interesting is that Jan Heine rides the same size as I do, and
the Protovelo is a bit larger (and designed differently) than the
GBUB, but that is also a big bike. But he flys on it, I'm sure...
Granted, I am not a fast rider and Jan is whippet thin and a strong
rider to boot -- but the tubing and design makes a big differences in
two seemingly-similar bicycles:

http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/GBwhitetires.jpg

And this is where I think Grant's all-rounder designs are built to
ramble. Its like all the images from the old catalog covers are built
into the frame.

And I agree with BB -- my Ebisu is lively and wants to run - and
descends well - but nothing I've ever ridden is as confidence-building
on descents (upon which I am chronically cautious) than my Protovelo -
in the drops, not bent over too much, feeling like I'm on rails.

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

[Michael Hechmer]

Esteban, you forgot to mention how damn good looking the bike was!

I'm sure there are almost as many opinions about the "lively" issue as there are tire sizes.  Two variables trump everything else.  The right set of tires & wheels can make a bike feel much more lively and give a rider that little bit extra of acceleration to stay with a faster group.  But I'm also convinced that Jan Heine is right about flexibility and planing.  If a bike is over built and too rigid it can feel sluggish on jumps but still cruise very nicely.  I certainly haven't ridden every bike honored on this list but am convinced that as you move toward a strong touring or trail efficient build you necessarily give up some of the liveliness that is the hallmark of a great road bike.  My 1988 Marinoni stage racing frame (columbus standard gauge tubing with world championship heritage) has it and so does my Rambouillet.  My Ebisu All Purpose a notch less but the SOMA Dble Cross, built stiffer with OS tubing is great for touring and commuting,  does not hammer anywhere near as well as the Ram. 

Of course my motor now has a lot of years and miles on it so words like quick, jump, and hammer get more problematic with every passing season.

blessings,

michael

[PATRICK MOORE]

Very pretty, and your observations on a "built in speed limit" are
interesting. I wonder how much has to do with geometry, tubing,
overall weight, wheel weight, position and tires -- and for that
matter, terrain. I know that the Fargo with soft Big Apples definitely
has a governor-limited speed on pavement, but it cruises fast on dirt
-- taking into account the relatively lower all-around speeds on dirt.
The point is, it feels faster on dirt than other mountain bikes I've
ridden.

Personally, I would feel very deprived if I did not have at least one
bicycle that did encourage pushing the speed -- not that "fast" in my
context is fast in everyone else's.

Odd, the tricycle -- which, dammit, needs a new left half axle right
side bearing cone -- is very heavy compared to most bicycles at an
estimated 30 lb and it has mediocre, 20 year old, belted IRC 28s, but
it *feels* springy -- it is built of light 531 -- even though it
cruises best with a 70" gear instead of the slightly higher 72 to 75"
of my much lighter Riv fixies. How much is feel and how much is actual
speed?

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Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
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[jimD]

+1 on the beautiful bike deal.

Here's my story about 'lively'.

The design of my Riv custom is based on a Riv Romulus.

I don't know the detail tube wall, geometry differences in the two designs.

I just asked Grant for a  bike like my the Romulus and we talked about where and how I ride.

I was expecting a fancier version of the Romulus.

What the custom ended up being was more than that

The custom is 'livelier' than the Romulus was.

Further proof for me that Grant  is one of 'the pros from Dover' when it comes to designing 

great riding bikes.

I was real fond of the Romulus, the custom is perfection for me.

-JimD

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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[Aaron Thomas]

JimD, 

You have any photos of your custom?

Aaron

[jimD]

Aaron,

Here you go:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rasterdogs/sets/72157604146015375/

-JimD

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[Aaron Thomas]

Thanks, Jim. That's a beauty! I love the orange.