Davinci splitters for cockpit swap

[Zack]

Hey All -

I have a Sam on the way, and am strongly considering trying to set up
the davinci splitters so that I would be able to swap between Noodles
and Albatrosses (Albabtri?). I am going with bar end shifters and
canti brakes.

I have heard varying reports on how difficult this is, and am
wondering if anyone that has done it can share some insight into
setting them up.

How long did it take?
How did you do it? (particularly, how did you account for the added
complexity of needing to cut the cables for the two different setups)
Where did you make your cuts in the cable?
Did you have cantilever brakes? Does it change how I would do things?

I would really appreciate some help/insight/instructions. I have
googled around and searched the groups, but most of what i have found
simply says "it's awesome to do this and be able to swap cockpits" but
haven't found anything that talks about how to actually do it. The
instructions I have found are all geared toward using the splitters
for the intended purpose of being a travel bike, so they aren't
concerned with the extra complexity of a different cockpit type.

Thank you in advance for weighing in and helping me (and maybe others)
out. Appreciate it.

[Seth Vidal]

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Zack <zac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey All -
>
> I have a Sam on the way, and am strongly considering trying to set up
> the davinci splitters so that I would be able to swap between Noodles
> and Albatrosses (Albabtri?).  I am going with bar end shifters and
> canti brakes.
>
> I have heard varying reports on how difficult this is, and am
> wondering if anyone that has done it can share some insight into
> setting them up.
>
> How long did it take?

meh - with the rest of the build - I dunno an hour or two of looking
at it and thinking a bit.

> How did you do it?  (particularly, how did you account for the added
> complexity of needing to cut the cables for the two different setups)
> Where did you make your cuts in the cable?

setup one set of bars with just a full cable, get the bars right, get
the shifters/brakes right, etc.

then cut the shifter cables under the downtube in the lower bit somewhere
cut the rear brake cable in the middle of the toptube

then when you go to setup the second set of bars - just determine
where to cut the second based on where the rear part of the first one
comes up to.
remember to account for the room to thread the connector together.

give yourself about a cm or less of cheat-room on the cable and you'll be fine.

oh and buy a few extra cables just on the off chance you miss a few times. :)

> Did you have cantilever brakes?  Does it change how I would do things?

yes cantilever - rear brake done with splitter. front brake done with
just the straddle cable carrier.

-sv

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

Hi! Go for it! Here's my story:

http://home.comcast.net/~thomaslynnskean/cockpits

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

[Ginz]

Thomas,

Your page is great -- lots of useful information there. Also, I like
the Kevin's bag on the front of the bike. I might try that.

Do you know off hand which stems (model and length) you are using with
each handlebar? It would be interesting to compare the exact change
in effective cockpit length and bar height with your change in comfort
level.

Ginz

[ekoral]

Wow Thomas, that's quite in depth. I've thought about trying to set up
a davinci system between my Noodles and Albatross. How, and where did
you set up the davinci couplers? i can't really decide what would be
an optimal place for them. It looks like we have similar setups. I
have the Paul motolites on my Atlantis and I find myself changing bars
ALOT, costing me tons of dough in cables and housing.

Let me know if you've got any suggestions, a good place to start, and
also possibly a shopping list. When I take on a project like this, i
end up in the bike shop three or four times in that same day. It gets
to be frustrating.

Thanks!
Eli

On May 18, 4:39 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean <thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net>
wrote:

[Montclair BobbyB]

I have DaVinci splitters on my Bombadil (after seeing Seth's setup...
thanks, Seth).
I use them for my derailleur cables only. Since I'm running V-brakes,
I've set up each bar setup with it's own brake cable down to the
noodle, which requires unfastening the cable at the brake; no big
deal... it's quick.

I have my derailleur splitters just below the downtube shifter braze-
ons; just my personal preference.

I can swap between my Noodles and Bullmoose setup in less than five
minutes!! Pretty cool.

Good luck,
BB

> > > out.  Appreciate it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

I'm probably of no help here.

The stem for each stemmed cockpit is the same... it's the Dirt Drop
100 (26.0 diameter clamp) from RBW (obviously N/A for the Bullmoose/
Tallmoose cockpit).

I deliberately kept the stem the same because I wanted to get the full
effect of the difference in handlebars. I sought the variety, not the
notion of optimization. I've found myself comfortable with each of the
bars, for my 10+ mile-each-way commute and for my 30-50 mile weekend
ride. I'm least comfortable (yet still quite content) with the
Noodles. I do love the feel of the VO elkhide. And it's fun knowing I
stitched it up.

I do vary Dirt Drop's insertion depth to taste. So the difference
isn't entirely in the bar. Though, actually, I max out the height on
the Dirt Drop 100 for the Moustache and Noodle and drop it probably
3cm from max for the Albatross. Since I started out so extreme, it's
not entirely surprising that as I spent more time with more bars, I've
actually *lowered* my Albatross bars from where I originally had them,
which was also maxed out on the Dirt Drop 100. Them bars was high!
Currently, by anybody else's definition, my Albatross bars are still
high (maybe 5-8cm above the saddle... I should do the measuring and
the math and figure it out someday). But man are they comfy!

I expect that, eventually, I'll also get a 200mm extension Bullmoose
bar (which I think would be a slight improvement for the Tallmoose
arrangement) and then allocate the 150mm extension Bullmoose for use
without the extender. Talk about variety! And I expect that, even
sooner, I'll create a more stretched-out Alba arrangement with bar-end
Silver shifters. I think that the use of a Dirt Drop with the
Albatross and bar-ends would pose issues due to the closeness of the
bar-ends. While I very much enjoy where the grips land with the Dirt
Drop / Alba combination I have now, they could also be further forward
and still be fine. And with bar-ends, I think a Technomic 11cm or 12cm
stem might limit the likelihood of getting Silver-stabbed. Seems like
that should kill vampires or werewolves or something.

One thing my cockpit variety has taught me is that, within a pretty
broad range, I may have a preference here or there... BUT (for *me*,
for *my* riding habits, and for *my* riding environment) comfort is
primarily about saddle position (and perhaps about the saddle itself).
Having gotten that right, I can comfortably ride as far as I'm ever
likely to ride on any of my cockpits. The variety is just icing on the
cake.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

One thing I learned is that having chosen Paul Motolites made this
project significantly more expensive. Each cockpit has its own noodle.
And with most brands/styles of linear pull brake, my approach to this
would have meant replicating a $5-$10 part for each cockpit. With the
Motolites, I think it was more like $35 for each cockpit to get the
"hooked canoe / noodle" combination.

I do *not* regret choosing the Motolites. They really have a
noticeably better feel than other linear-pulls I tried (Deore,
Tektros). Now, there may be non-Motolite alternatives that I would be
just as happy with. And that would not incur the multi-cockpit $
penalty. But... I do love the Motolites. And at some point you just
stick with what you know works and quit looking.

The only real suggestion I have (beyond anything I put into the
cockpit web page) is to get cable cutters that work well. I started
out with a set from Park that were truly horrible. It was so
frustrating to burn through my entire supply of cables being unable to
get a clean cut. I've since become convinced that these were an
anomalously bad set. But the ones I use now are Shimano brand. And
work beautifully. I can't remember where on the web I got them.

Generally speaking, I positioned the three couplers (rear brake, front/
rear derailer) a few inches below the housing stop (downtube for the
derailer, top tube for the brake). That few inches allowed for more
than enough "travel" in the bare cable between the stop and the male
coupler. I didn't do any precise measurement. If there's an optimizing
principle behind the choice that I either should have followed or
accidentally did follow, I gave it no thought. I just knew that the
cable had to be able to travel sufficiently to do its job (i.e. travel
without the coupler running into the stop). If I go through the whole
process again at some point (just to freshen all of my cables at once,
say), I'll give some thought to putting the couplers as close as
feasible to the stops (with safety margin of course). Somehow that
seems right. But... like I say, I only know now that I'll look into
that when the time comes. I have no problem to solve with the way mine
are positioned now. They function perfectly.

I'll link this thread to some pictures tonight. Now that I think of
it, the coupler positioning may not be all that apparent in any of the
pictures I have linked in my cockpit story's web page.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

[Brett Lindenbach]

Paul, +1 on the level of detail.  nicely done.   I too am building out swappable cockpits, but I opted for a silver set of "breakapart" splitters from Ritchey.  I found it odd that you use the same size stem for all your bars, as some bars come back further than others.  i currently have albas with a 9 cm stem and am moving those up to 12 because they come too far back.  i will use the 9 cm stem (it is a 26 mm clamp) to add some noodles.  your thoughts?

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

Pictures

bike, for context: http://db.tt/6IUOZ4r
splitter placement: http://db.tt/T0BGzNh

(scan back from stop on top tube; look just ahead of "E" in Hillborne on down tube)

I note that the black coloring (presumably anodized) on the splitters appears to be wearing away.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

[Zack]

Thank you guys for all the input.

Great stuff. I ordered the couplers this weekend. They'll be ready for
me to install when I take delivery of the Sam in 7 weeks or so.

Seems pretty do-able. I am having riv set me up with albatross bars on
the build. I think I'll ride those a ton this summer/fall, and then
when I want to switch back to noodles, I'll set the splitters up.

Truly appreciate all the help.
On May 20, 8:04 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean <thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net>
wrote:

[Zack]

Reviving this thread!  I am now endeavoring to do this to the Sam.

It occurs to me that I need to get brake housing cables for my second set of handlebars, didn't think about that.  

Also, I have a question - for those of you with canti brakes, how are you doing the front brake swap?  Do you have a separate hanger and straddle cable for each set of handlebars (and then you are releasing the part of the straddle cable that is crimped into the brake to make the switch)?

Please let me know!  

[cyclotourist]

Thomas, what type of wheel lock do you have mounted on the Sam? I have a cheapie on my old Schwinn but would like to get a better one.

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[dougP]

I put a DaVinci in the brake cable between the hanger & the yoke. My
bike is 58 cm so there's quite a bit of cable in there to work with.

dougP

> > > Thomas Lynn Skean- Hide quoted text -

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I see from the variety of responses here that it has been done, and apparently deemed successful by several knowledgeable people. My thought on it is purely philosophical, and is parallel to my thoughts about double-sided hubs on single speed bikes. It seems like it would be cool to be able to switch things around on a whim, but it's probably just enough hassle that most people make the swap infrequently, if ever. As my bike fleet evolves, I certainly try to change things around to differentiate one bike from the other bikes or to test new products, but that happens maybe once or twice a year, but probably less often than that. In the good old days, when I just had one bike, an Atlantis, after my initial ill-fated mustache bar experiment, I tried the noodle and the albatross. Eventually, the noodle was deemed more comfortable and/or better most of the time and plenty tolerable the rest of the time, and the A-bar never went on that bike again. I doubt many riders are firmly divided about which bar is "better all around", so the path of least resistance is to settle into the setup that works well enough, and then leave it that way for a long-ish time. Some people like screwing around with the mechanical aspects of bikes more than they enjoy riding, and there's nothing wrong with that, so maybe the gee-whiz factor of the relatively quick cockpit swap is worth doing for that reason. Personally, I can't imagine getting ready to go on a ride and deciding I needed to swap handlebars before I take off. Anything that delays or adds to the hassle of just getting on and riding my bike is a detriment, in my opinion. I gave up clipless pedals and the need to change shoes because it was just one more thing to do before I could ride and smile.

A few years ago, I had a guy ask about setting up two DOS freewheels and two chainrings on a single-speed bike. He apparently planned to flip the wheel twice a day and switch chainrings/cogs at least as often to accommodate his alternating uphill and downhill commute. It didn't seem reasonable to me, and I said as much. He either didn't do it, or he didn't buy those parts from me, but my logic was the same. You can gut out the occasional sub-optimality on an otherwise generally appropriate bike without resorting to spending many minutes/hours wrenching on it.

[Seth Vidal]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
<thil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I see from the variety of responses here that it has been done, and
> apparently deemed successful by several knowledgeable people. My thought on
> it is purely philosophical, and is parallel to my thoughts about
> double-sided hubs on single speed bikes. It seems like it would be cool to
> be able to switch things around on a whim, but it's probably just enough
> hassle that most people make the swap infrequently, if ever. As my bike
> fleet evolves, I certainly try to change things around to differentiate one
> bike from the other bikes or to test new products, but that happens maybe
> once or twice a year, but probably less often than that. In the good old
> days, when I just had one bike, an Atlantis, after my initial ill-fated
> mustache bar experiment, I tried the noodle and the albatross. Eventually,
> the noodle was deemed more comfortable and/or better most of the time and
> plenty tolerable the rest of the time, and the A-bar never went on that bike
> again. I doubt many riders are firmly divided about which bar is "better all
> around",

I found that I would swap them for the bike based on what I used the
bike for that day. It took a grand total of 3minutes for me to change
out the bars on my atlantis.

I enjoyed it for a while until I bought the romulus and had one bike
with albatross bars(the atlantis) and one bike with noodles (the rom).

I guess in short - if you have the option - get two bikes. If you
don't - get one and do the splitters - you won't regret it.

-sv

[Montclair BobbyB]

I was very gung-ho on this idea, and set up 2 cockpits (bullmoose and
noodles) with DaVinci splitters and V-brakes that I could literally
swap in 5 minutes.... OK, big deal...

But ultimately what I had failed to consider was that I really
preferred the bullmoose bars on my Bombadil over the Noodles no matter
how many times I tried to like the Noodles... so much so that the
Noodles sat hanging on a hook in my garage. The good news is that I
eventually used the Noodles on another bike, and I absolutely LOVE the
Noodles on my Cimarron... they're PERFECT for this bike...

To Jim T's point, I didn't swap as much as I anticipated I would, and
in the end like to stick with what works... I'm lucky to have a
different bikes with different bar setups... that's good enough for
me.

So who needs a good deal on set of DaVinci gear cable splitters?...
cheap.

Bobby

[Zack]

I definitely have room for a splitter on the front brake in between the hanger and the yoke, thanks for the help doug!

I don't have room for multiple bikes, and the difference between my Sam with albas and duremes and noodles and jack browns is huge - is like two different bikes.  I imagine that I will mostly ride the dureme/alba combination, but there are times drop bars and a different tire would be nice.