Another perspective, by George!

[numbnuts]

http://georgethecyclist.blogspot.com/2012/12/grant-petersons-racing-acumen.html

Regards,

Chris

Redding, Ca.

[Peter Morgano]

Book has been out for what, 5 months and now a review? End of year sour grapes edition or something?  Pretty nastily written when he has to harp on for almost a whole paragraph about how long the book was or wasnt. I think what people like this george person miss is that sarcasm and wit are funny, just being nasty is not. Morton Downey-not funny, Jon Stewart-funny.

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[dougP]

For starters, he mis-spells Grant's last name throughout the review.  George's photo (I assume it's George) is taken on bike loaded down for a tour, & George wearing long pants to boot.  He then gets into details about the TdF / BORAF history?  George is a card carrying grump in his way. 

Yea, a book review months after publication is a bit lame.  Maybe a slow day at the races.

dougP

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

George isn't the world's clearest writer. Did he like the book, or dislike the book? Hard to tell. Clearly he's got an axe to grind, but his criticisms are pretty unfocused. The most specific criticism is that some racing stats were inaccurate?

[Anne Paulson]

My reaction exactly. He spent three paragraphs obsessing about some
details about Tour de France trivia that Grant misstated. I'm sure
that diehard TdF fans care about them, but most people don't.

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
<thil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> George isn't the world's clearest writer. Did he like the book, or dislike the book? Hard to tell. Clearly he's got an axe to grind, but his criticisms are pretty unfocused. The most specific criticism is that some racing stats were inaccurate?
>

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My hovercraft is full of eels

[James Warren]

It's pretty nitpicky.

[Aaron Thomas]

I refuse to read — or take seriously — anyone who cannot spell Grant's last name correctly after all these years.

– Aaron  

[charlie]

He never mentioned  much about the actual contents of the book.....only picking up on the TDF stuff and picking on GP's recollection of Eddie's exact stats, spelling of derailleur (Sheldon's way)  and a incomplete recollection of a early TDF event which wasn't the intent (I don't believe) of its inclusion (complete historical recollection of the facts)......regardless, he didn't mention the good stuff, bike fit, comfort, safety, construction, exercise benefit or lack of in detail, basically everything Grant writes about that might help people want to actually ride a bicycle as a normal person, in a normal way without suiting up and pretending to be a road racer.

On Monday, December 10, 2012 8:29:09 AM UTC-8, numbnuts wrote:

[RJM]

Not much of a book review.

[Ron Mc]

old George may want to skin a few teeth, but I don't think his audience is big enough to affect Grant Petersen's audience one way or another.  

On Monday, December 10, 2012 10:29:09 AM UTC-6, numbnuts wrote:

[pb]

I do not have a dog in this hunt, I really don't care one way or the other, and I didn't read the book, but I will note the following:

 

- The story of George is interesting (click through the photo to read about him).  The guy rides a bike, and I suspect that Grant would enjoy meeting him.  

 

- Grant managed to offend me at some point in most issues of the Reader.  Over the years, RBW lost a good amount of my discretionary spending as a result of various things I read in the Reader.  I was baffled and confused by positions he took, and comments he made, which seemed snarky to me -- earnestly snarky, determinedly snarky, unecessarily snarky, rather than good-humored, witty observations.  I was a guy with a dozen bikes in the garage, in a wide variety of flavors, all of them expensive, all of them with lots of miles on them, some of them very racy, some of them lugged and Rivvish, virtually all of them subject to ongoing replacement (in other words, each of those hooks was potentially a business opportunity for RBW), and I had the means to be able to buy the products Grant was offering... and he repeatedly told me that I was clueless about my almost lifelong avocation.  I gather George had a reaction to Just Ride which was along the same lines.

 

I recovered from my reactions to the Reader a long time ago.  Water over the dam.  Shrug.  I own and have owned Rivs.  Yes, I appreciate Grant's positive aspects, and contributions, while shaking my head at some of his idiosyncracies as well as at what I think are poor business decisions -- hey, none of my business except that someone needs to finally tell him that he tends to build top tubes that are too long (and too numerous, but I digress).  I'm not surprised that someone else might respond to aspects of Grant's writing as I did.  An analogy to Grant's style of communication that occurs to me is a soccer coach who tells kids that they should play soccer instead of football because football is stupid, and people who play football are fools who have been tricked.  Wouldn't it be more productive -- and overall much more positive -- to invite the kids to play soccer because it's a great game and they're going to have a blast?  Some of them might even wind up playing both football and soccer!  How cool would that be?  (No, I'm not a football fan.  It's an analogy.  Substitute "baseball" or "swimming" or "cycling" or "video games" in place of "football", if you don't like the football analogy.) 

 

I'm grateful that, unlike George, when I am reading for pleasure, I have learned to toss something aside if I don't enjoy it.  You'll never find a review on Amazon from me that reports, "I hated this book from the first page, and steadily hated it more and more until finishing page 742."  (Or worse, a one-star review that says something like, "I have tried this in the past, I have always hated it, and yes, I still hate it and it still sucks, and it gets one star!)  On the other hand, occasonally I will go back and check on something that I haven't liked in the past.  BSNY is an example of the latter, and references to him spurred me to wander over that direction.  Today's column confirms for me that, unless I take up pot smoking on a Rastafarian scale, his writing will likely continue to hold zero interest for me, although I did note his admission that his sense of humor stopped evolving in the 8th grade, which helps to explain a lot of things.

 

And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.  :-)

 

pb

 

 

 

     
On Monday, December 10, 2012 8:29:09 AM UTC-8, numbnuts wrote:

[Peter Morgano]

I have read a lot in my life and never has someone who made stuff I wanted "offended" me so much as to make me stop buying it outside of racism, hate speak and that kind of thing.  I think the issue a lot of people have with Grant is they imagine their is some equivalency in the strength and power of an argument  between one guy in southern California and a billion dollar bike business, which there is not. I admire someone like Grant who isn't afraid of losing the sales of a few disgruntled customers so he can actually speak his mind. In our watered down corporate culture it is refreshing to have someone stick their neck out for what they believe in. Oh and I think its pretty offensive to associate people who read BSNYC with drug addicts. I read his blog daily and I am not a drug addict, as I suspect is true for most of his readers. Also offensive is the insinuation that all Rastafarians are drug addicts, a friend and fellow parent is Rastafarian and has never done drugs in his life. See, so your "musings" are much more offensive than BSNYC calling carbon crapon or Grant criticising 22s.

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[William]

In my opinion, George's bike is 4cm ("or so") too small for him.  

On Monday, December 10, 2012 8:29:09 AM UTC-8, numbnuts wrote:

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Easy there.  The OP can surely speak for himself, but all he said was that after a revisit to BSNYC (whose postings I personally often find amusing), he’s still pretty sure that unless he (underline he) takes up pot smoking on a Rastafarian scale, he (underline he) isn’t going to find BSNYC amusing.  That’s just self-awareness (and maybe a little self-deprecation), not a slap at anybody else.  “People who read BSNYC are (or associate with) pot smokers (or drug addicts)”  is in no way the logical corollary of “I won’t find BSNYC amusing unless I smoke pot on a Rastafarian scale.”  And the fact (which I think is hard to dispute) that there are Rastafarians (maybe a lot) who don’t smoke weed doesn’t diminish the fact (also, I think, indisputable) that cannabis use is a part of the Rastafari movement – see the well-sourced entry in Wikipedia:

 

Spiritual use of cannabis

Cannabis

See also: Spiritual use of cannabis

For Rastas, smoking cannabis, usually known as herb, weed, sinsemilla (Spanish for without seeds), or ganja (from the Sanskrit word Ganjika, used in ancient India), is a spiritual act, often accompanied by Bible study; they consider it a sacrament that cleans the body and mind, heals the soul, exalts the consciousness, facilitates peacefulness, brings pleasure, and brings them closer to Jah. They often burn the herb when in need of insight from Jah. Cannabis remains illegal in Jamaica and most of the world and this has caused friction between Rastas and modern societies.^[26] The burning of the herb is often said to be essential, "For it will sting in the hearts of those that promote and perform evil and wrongs." By the 8th century, cannabis had been introduced by Arab traders to Central and Southern Africa, where it is known as "dagga"^[27] and many Rastas say it is a part of their African culture that they are reclaiming.^[28] It is sometimes also referred to as "the healing of the nation", a phrase adapted from Revelation 22:2.^[29]

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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Sorry.  OT.   My bad.

[Mike Schiller]

I find George kinda interesting  His "sorta" review of the book is just as quirky as he is. He is still a bike messenger at my age!  ( 55) and he does a lot of nice long bike tours too. 

His obsession with bike racing lore is really out there. While I'm a big fan or professional cycling and have followed every TDF since I was a teenager I had no idea how many races Merckx won and don't really care.... that was a long time ago.  

But his opinion falls inline with the opinion of  lot of people I've come across, either you are a fan of Grant's or not, there is not much room in between. 

~mike

[gep7...@gmail.com]

I never TRY to offend people, but it sometimes happens and I'm always sorry for it. My opinions about bikes are about bikes, and not the people who ride them, but of course---I'm this way myself-----I tend to take equipment-comments personally. When I set out to do the Reader--and catalogues and JR--always up front among my concerns is to not attack people, but anything goes on the bikes or parts. But even so, I try to tread lightly while talking straight about it, and if I were really good, I'd be able to pull it off better than I do.

I knew (and said this exactly in the into to JR) that many would find the book offensive, or might feel threatened by it, in some way. But what I find offensive (that may be too stronga word) are the notions that "serious" riders dress, ride bikes like, and train like racers. I know not every non-racer does that, but it is common enough to almost be invevitable--in the absence of a good argument for doing otherwise.

Anyway, PB, I'd be happy to send you a copy of JR free. It's only 34,000 words. You might agree with 27,000 of em!

Best,

Grant

[PATRICK MOORE]

I tried to stay away from this thread, but this post makes me speak.

I haven't read the book, but I've read most of what Grant has written
since 1994, and my take on his opinions and style is that, if anyone
is offended by what GP says, he or she deserves to be offended.
There's not an offensive word in anything I've seen of his writing;
the problems are in the readers. Get a goddam life!

I disagree with a lot of what GP says and likes, but in no way is
there any possible way for a reasonable person to be offended by it!

[cyclotourist]

Praise Lob.

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Redlands, CA

**
"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it." -Mark Twain

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I definitely agree with the message Grant is promoting, which
basically challenges/discards the turn-offs of cycling that prevent
more people from getting out there and riding.

Don't "not-ride" because you think you have to wear special clothes to ride.
Don't "not-ride" because you think you need to have an uncomfortable
racer bike to ride.
Don't "not-ride" because you think you need to suffer to get a good
ride and you don't want to suffer today.
etc...

One danger I could see, perhaps one could "take offense" is that if
you do wear special clothes to ride, then you are "un-Rivendell". If
you do like clipless pedals, then you are "un-Rivendell" etc...

I could see how one might come up with that interpretation upon
reading some of Grant's writing, but Rivendell makes or has made bikes
like the Legolas and the Roadeo that cater to different crowds than a
Betty Foy, for example. I'm sure Grant will appreciate that for some
people, some "racer" gear makes sense for them and their style of
riding, and that they are still in the Riv family, but his message is
centered around the "most of you" crowd, which is perfectly reasonable
and makes sense from the Riv marketing perspective too :).

Best,
Toshi in Oakland, CA

[Joe Bernard]

Due to various job/life situations, I haven't ridden near as much as I would have liked in the past year. If it weren't for the Just Ride philosophy GP established starting in the latter days of Bridgestone, I probably woudn't have ridden at all. I would have believed that if I didn't have time to suit up and click in for at least 20 miles, it wasn't worth doing. But Grant wrote in a catalogue, "A 10 minute ride is always worth it." He's right. 10 minutes or one hour or 6 or all day..all are available to me in non-space-age-looking clothes and regular shoes on comfortable, pretty bikes. Because someone had the sense to poke his head up and say, "Hey! That's bike riding!"

 

Joe Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

[James Warren]

Yes! Hit the nail on the head. That's all I need to see on this topic.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 10, 2012, at 2:19 PM, soapscum <smul...@gmail.com> wrote:

His criticism of the book is based on a lack of attention to details of those things the book is specifically NOT about. Brilliant. It's like saying you hated 'Skyfall' because it wasn't a western.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/whIna5ik9jAJ.

[numbnuts]

Hey All,

Just for the sake of clarity, I am the OP and the only other post on this particular subject/thread from me was the very first one in which I shared the review of JR that 'george the cyclist' had written. So, not only did I not make mention of anything relating to cannabis, the Rastafarian perspective, Grant's perspective,..........., I didn't even mention my own take on the review in question.

For me, it was more like the old SNL 'point/counter point' skit. That stuff still makes me laugh.

Love to all, and smooth tracks too,

Chris

Redding, Ca.

[Ron Mc]

I enjoy reading Grant's copy - old Bridgestone cats are a hoot.  Style is part of it, and opinions are the rest.  After all that, keeping alive the timelessness of good bicycles is important.  

In 1985, my buddy bought a benchmade Mercian road racing frame languishing in a bike shop for peanuts.  It was passe, it was orange, it couldn't sell against the tide of welded aluminium.  

[jimD]

+1
And for myself, no matter what Grant writes, if I agree or disagree, I thoroughly enjoy how he writes.
-JimD

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[numbnuts]

Hey All,

Grant his the courage to speak his mind. I like this, but it almost ensures that any one person will not like everything Grant says. That includes myself.

The one recurring thing I hear inside my head while reading something from Grant is that he loves bikes as much as I do. That does not mean we would be fast friends.  I do, however, bump into him (very) occasionally and call him by name. He says 'hello' back and then usually gives me a look that says to me 'am I supposed to know you?'. I just smile and move on. I am pretty sure he did not go for a ride on the mountain (Diablo, and often alone, it seems) so he could hang out with me.

Regards,

Chris

Redding, Ca.

[pb]

Thanks, Grant, for your graceful and open reply.  As I wish you and your business well, I'm glad that you read my post, for whatever it may be worth.  I'll shoot you an email off-list.

 

On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:47:00 PM UTC-8, gep7...@gmail.com wrote:

...... 

[Matthew J]

>But what I find offensive (that may be too stronga word) are the notions that "serious" riders dress, ride bikes like, and

> train like racers.

 

Agree with this completely.  For the most part I ignore stuff about bikes and riding I don't cotton to.  Life is too short.

 

But this whole notion that one type of riding and rider is serious and the rest of us are what ... goofing around I guess really bugs me.

 

Especially so when one considers the term is most often used by amateurs.  I am sure to many bike racing is fun and to almost all it is a healthy way to pass time when not at work or attending to your personal obligations.  Amateur racing in the end is a hobby like any other hobby.  

 

Certainly the fact one races bikes for fun does not make one more 'serious' about cycling than the person who uses a bike as primary transport, or cycles around the world, or collects old bikes, etc. 

[Ron Mc]

I ride a lot of city park trails, especially with my daughter, or there's a 26-mile-round paved trail that I hit a lot just for a weekly aerobic ride if no place else comes to mind.  We see a lot of the same lycra guys there, and many of them are smug if not condescending about upright bikes and baggy clothes.  They don't pass me, though.  

[William]

I used to think it mattered who I passed and who passed me.  I don't think that anymore.  I ring my bell hello at all of them.  

[Mojo]

Thanks Patrick Moore for speaking my mind.

I do not have one cycling friend that agrees on all the nuances that complicates the category that is bicycle riding.

But we are still friends.

I read Grant's cycling musings and he sounds like one of my guys who has figured things out in his own way.

I really can't see why that can be offensive.

My one complaint about Grant's writing: do more of it!

[Ron Mc]

OK, that's fine, there are snobs in every hobby or activity.  It's an unfortunate part of human nature.  Hang out with some fly fishermen sometime.  Just like bicycle riders, they are being inundated with a smoke screen marketing strategy that everything you bought last year is obsolete.  I fish 40-y-o fiberglass fly rods and 80-yr old bamboo fly rods.  I discovered a long time ago I can buy more of those for less than the new high tech products, and they're a lot more fun to fish for many reasons.  But it's great to see anyone fishing, just like it's great to see anyone bicycling.  I always stop to help new fishermen, and I always ask downed bicyclers if they have everything they need, and if they need anything I have, it's theirs.  But we obviously hang out here because think a lot like Grant thinks.  

[Ron Mc]

and William, in the post you replied to, I used the word "I" twice in 200 words - you used it 4 times in 80 words - think about it.  

On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 6:55:36 PM UTC-6, William wrote:

[dougP]

Grant:

If you publish stuff, someone, somewhere, will be offended.  Guaranteed.  Don't be sorry.  The other side of balance beam is that you give voice to a lot of ideas / opinions / thoughts that bubble around in a lot of our heads but never make it into print.  I don't agree with everything you've written but always enjoy reading your articles. 

FWIW, my copy of Just Ride was the on-board read of choice for a van load of bicycle tourists between So Cal & the Canadian border last summer.  The bike load as everything from an old steel MTB to CF racing bikes, plus my Atlantis & a LHT.  Even some of the racy people commented "hey, this guy has some good ideas". 

You're doing a tremendous amount of good.  Keep writing & I'll keep reading.

dougP

On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:47:00 PM UTC-8, gep7...@gmail.com wrote:

[William]

Of course I use first person singular a lot. I'm smug!

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I had a lot of concrete ideas about bikes and cycling before I opened a neighborhood bike shop 7 years ago. All my customers have their own ideas about how bikes should be or how best to ride bikes, and all of them are correct! Sometimes, though, they need a little encouragement. For example, it's very common for newbie cyclists to experience clipless pedal peer pressure. Many seem relieved when I te them there's no need to go cli

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Continuing from above...

when I tell them there's no need to go clipless! I don't use clipless pedals.

This, of course, does not mean I discourage clipless lovers from loving clipless. I just defuse the peer pressure for people who clearly aren't ready for such an "advancement" in their bike experience.

[Matthew J]

Bravo.  I tried clipless when it was new - did not like it.  Few years back tried again to see how advances in technology might change my feelings.  Still don't like it.  Cannot begin to count how many total strangers have wondered when I am going to get with clipless. 

 

And heck, my bikes have Campy Super Record, MKS Kierin and White Industry platform pedals respectively.  One would think even the most casual cyclists would be aware that I have put a lot of thought (and $) into my pedal choices.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2012-12-13 at 06:26 -0800, Matthew J wrote:
> And heck, my bikes have Campy Super Record, MKS Kierin and White
> Industry platform pedals respectively. One would think even the most
> casual cyclists would be aware that I have put a lot of thought (and
> $) into my pedal choices.
>

Do you think for a moment _casual_ cyclists have any idea about high end
road pedals of any kind? I'll bet most _casual_ cyclists don't give any
thought to their pedals at all, whatever came with the bike is fine,
etc.

It would be more reasonable to expect _serious_ cyclists to take note of
the thought, care and money you've put into pedal choices, but except
for a small niche most simply dismiss your choices as hopelessly
old-fashioned.

> Bravo. I tried clipless when it was new - did not like it. Few years
> back tried again to see how advances in technology might change my
> feelings. Still don't like it. Cannot begin to count how many total
> strangers have wondered when I am going to get with clipless.

Exactly: why would anyone serious about the sport use hopelessly
out-dated equipment, when everything they read tells them clipless is
better?

Now we could very well discuss whether one is better than the other and
why. It's not at all clear-cut. And I say that as one who used toe
clips for 20 years and then gave them up forever.

I gave them up because to me, not having toe clips but having positive
foot retention with float _is_ better. A limiting factor on long rides
for me for 20 years was pain in the toe nails caused by pressure from
the toe clips: ignorable for the first 20 miles or so, but by mile 50
bringing mental images of Christ on the cross, only in my case nailed
through the big toes.

But you are confined in your shoe choices. Of course, if you used
cleats as well as toe clips back in the day, you were limited in your
choice of shoes, too; but shoes like that are gone forever, as are the
cleats. But you could use Bata Bikers, and they were a lot better to
wear off the bike than any modern shoes meant for use with clipless
pedals.

[Matthew J]

> Do you think for a moment _casual_ cyclists have any idea about high end
> road pedals of any kind?  I'll bet most _casual_ cyclists don't give any
> thought to their pedals at all, whatever came with the bike is fine,
> etc.

 

Used casual cyclists as reducio ad absurdam.   Most who question my pedals are people who bike a lot.

 

> Exactly: why would anyone serious about the sport use hopelessly
> out-dated equipment, when everything they read tells them clipless is
> better?

 

There is the rub.  For me cycling is not a sport but rather my primary method of moving from point a to point b, whether b is work, errands, local recreation, or far off vacation destination.  The bearings and build on the pedals I list are as good as and most likely better than any of the top SPD pedals.

 

> I gave them up because to me, not having toe clips but having positive
> foot retention with float _is_ better.  A limiting factor on long rides
> for me for 20 years was pain in the toe nails caused by pressure from
> the toe clips: ignorable for the first 20 miles or so, but by mile 50
> bringing mental images of Christ on the cross, only in my case nailed
> through the big toes.

 

Certainly someone experiencing foot problems with cleat or platform pedals should try SPD.  But I do not and remain happy with what  I ride.

 

> But you could use Bata Bikers, and they were a lot better to
> wear off the bike than any modern shoes meant for use with clipless
> pedals.

 

Personally, I think the quality of most modern foot wear is falling.  Most likely culprit are the couple of huge retailers dominating footwear sales constantly driving vendors to lower costs.  But that is a debate for another forum.

choice of shoes, too; but shoes like that are gone forever, as are the But you could use Bata Bikers, and they were a lot better to

wear off the bike than any modern shoes meant for use with clipless
pedals.

cleats.  

[Kelly]

I went back to platform a couple of years ago. No toe clips just bmx style pedals and I love them. I speak for myself in that. Platforms are better for me and I see no perceptible performance loss.

Several people I know just like being attached. It's nice to have quality products on both sides. I don't however buy into antiquated technology or that clip less is better for anyone other than the person saying so. I don't believe one is any better than the other. With the edge going to clipless for racing... I don't race.

Ride what you want wear what you want ..share what works for you. It's choice and preference not fact anyway.

Kelly

[IanA]

This thread seems to have deviated from the title, but it's interesting anyway.  I've ridden clipped in (mountain bike shoes) and found it comfortable.  The mountain bike shoes had a stiff sole and the pedals were Shimano m545, which have a cage that offers great foot support. I did over 20,000 miles with this set up.  But, I really want to be a flat pedal convert for distance stuff (I'm already a convert for commuting). Are there any randonneurs here that ride flats for the long rides?  

[Jan Heine]

With all respect to the writer, I think the review focuses on the
wrong things. If Grant had written a book about the history of racing,
then the exact number of Merckx's victories would be important.
However, in the context of "Just Ride," 450 or 525 doesn't make a
difference. It's "a lot."

Unfortunately, it's common for people who for some reason disagree
with something they read to try and find something that is wrong, even
if it's just a typo on page 126. Then they say that the entire
argument is flawed because of these inconsistencies.

Because of this nitpicking, the reader loses sight of what the author
wants to say: Does he agree or disagree with Grant? More importantly,
does he think the book is good/useful and if yes, for whom? If he
finds Grant's humorous attitude about racing grating, he should have
said so...

Of course, the review is worth about as much as you paid for it...

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
www.bikequarterly.com

Follow out blog at janheine.blogspot.com

[rob markwardt]

I wouldn't get to hung up on George's review.  I don't think reviewing
books is his thing. You want to talk about a guy who just
rides....http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/lifestylesearn-local-
ride-global/Content?oid=923718.  He also watched 70 films in twelve
days AND watched every inning of the 75 Cubs at Wrigley (they finished
in last place). I'd like to read a book about that!

On Dec 14, 12:35 pm, Jan Heine <hein...@earthlink.net> wr

[robert zeidler]

Absolutely correct! Furthermore, all these folks that hang on Grant's
words to either agree or disagree..... I don't get it.

It's not like we hang out or anything, but over the years, all the way
back to the BOB days, I've had some really nice chats with Grant. I
find him to be a pretty nice guy. But in those talks I never got the
impression that I was talking to the Maharishi of the Bicycle, nor
have I ever heard him suggest that. Opinions are like you know what's!

The subtitle of the book, which is excellent reading, should be, "Your
Mileage May Vary"!

Every time I read stuff on Velominati, i.e., "The Rules" (very funny
though!), or Chris Kostman I have to laugh at the pomposity of it all.
When I read about the "Classic Cyclist" I kept waiting for the part
where he was going to say, "...and the Classic Cyclist has just the
right haircut...."!

Grant at least is saying, "this is my opinion but hey, whatever". And
I do like the Unracer tag. Brilliant.

Oh yeah, YMMV!

RGZ

[Ron Mc]

Have to agree that we don't hang on anything.  That's the realm of the trendy.  If anything, we're retrogeeks, the total opposites of trendy.  We got here on our own, and like Grant's copy because he puts our own thoughts into words that we hadn't taken the trouble to write down.  

[numbnuts]

Hey All,

OP here. I enjoyed the conversation. Thanks to all!

Smooth tracks,

Chris

Redding, Ca.