Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

[Jim Cloud]

Just picked this up from internet traffic:

http://news.yahoo.com/lance-armstrong-stripped-tour-france-titles-internet-shock-233032763.html

Jim Cloud
Tucson, AZ

[Lyle Bogart]

Seems inevitable, really, either because Lance *is* guilty of doping or because, by consistently beating others shown to have been doping, he so tested the objectivity of the testing agencies that they could never be happy until they convicted him. I doubt we've heard the last of this, though. . . 

lyle

-- 
lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd

wiscasset, me 04578

207.882.6494

206.794.6937

Jim Cloud
Tucson, AZ

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lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd

wiscasset, me 04578

207.882.6494

206.794.6937

[Peter Pesce]

Does this make him an "UnRacer" now? :)

[Marc Irwin]

What is also inevitable is a protest and appeal by the UCI.  They have protested the jurisdiction of the USADA since the case was introduced and the judge in Dallas told the USADA they didn't have a case worthy of judge to hear.  Oh well, it seems the races are "cleaner" now, except for Bradley Wiggins' mouth.

Marc

[Peter Morgano]

Another huge waste of our tax dollars. The same with the Clemens trial. I I could really give a damn, we live in a free country, if you want to abuse your body be my guest.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/lcE-ros9HjgJ.

[Tim McNamara]

That's not what the judge said according to all the news articles I saw.  What I saw reported was that the judge determined that USADA had jurisdiction and that the case belonged in that process.  In his opinion the court had no reason to intervene- Lance brought it to court trying to get the process stopped, the USADA did not file the case in the court.

As a former bike racing fan for some 40 years, I followed the Tour de France and a hundred other races every year very closely.  Lance was a star rider before his cancer and his comeback to win his first Tour was tremendous.  And then he won year after year with famous (and infamous) determination and drive.

Then the doping stories came out.  Not about Lance but about the racers he defeated at the top of the leader board and the also-rans.  And I started wondering how a man could dominate, year after year, a field full of dopers.  The obvious answer was that he was doping too and that he was a lot better at it than his competitors.  I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and defended him, but the obvious became too obvious.

Doping in pro cycling is a very long tradition dating back since the start of the sport.  I think that accounts for the willingness of the UCI and race organizers to look the other way.  In Europe, pro cycling is big money and money buys closed eyes; a lot of money buys a lot of closed eyes- sort of like Congress and lobbyists.  Pro bike racing seems to be about as honest as professional wrestling.

So I came to believe that Lance doped.  I watched closely as Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton and Jan Ullrich and others proclaimed their innocence and waged a media battle and sometimes bizarre legal battles.  Now we've seen Lance sounding exactly like Floyd and Tyler:  strident and whiny.  Lance even pulled out the "unconstitutional" card, claiming that the lawfully created American oversight body for sports and doping doesn't have the authority to oversee HIM.  Funny that he didn't make that argument when it was Floyd and Tyler in the crosshairs.  Lance also forgot the truth that "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel," as he invoked the Constitution to hide behind.

So what we are left with is a tacit admission of guilt by Lance Amstrong.  The strong suspicion must be that he gave up the fight not because it was unfair or unconstitutional but because he was going to lose.  By quitting now he protects some ambiguity.  Why is this important?  Because Lance was paid millions of taxpayer dollars as a professional athlete whose results were the result of cheating.  He appears to have perpetrated fraud against the American people personally and financially.  This actually is a big deal.

It's also got nothing to do with RBW and we probably shouldn't discuss it here, come to think of it.  There are plenty of other venues.

Tim

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/lcE-ros9HjgJ.

[Peter Morgano]

I would rather discuss the aspects of drying paint than this Lance stuff. This has nothing to do with my continued frustration in adjusting the cantis on my Bombadil, I think the pads are too toed in. 

[Marc Schwartz]

I find my canti adjustment prowess doping enhanced... a ice cold pilsner on a this hot afternoon,.. Ahem,
________________________________________
From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Peter Morgano [uscpet...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 11:20 AM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

I would rather discuss the aspects of drying paint than this Lance stuff. This has nothing to do with my continued frustration in adjusting the cantis on my Bombadil, I think the pads are too toed in.

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net<mailto:tim...@bitstream.net>> wrote:
That's not what the judge said according to all the news articles I saw. What I saw reported was that the judge determined that USADA had jurisdiction and that the case belonged in that process. In his opinion the court had no reason to intervene- Lance brought it to court trying to get the process stopped, the USADA did not file the case in the court.

As a former bike racing fan for some 40 years, I followed the Tour de France and a hundred other races every year very closely. Lance was a star rider before his cancer and his comeback to win his first Tour was tremendous. And then he won year after year with famous (and infamous) determination and drive.

Then the doping stories came out. Not about Lance but about the racers he defeated at the top of the leader board and the also-rans. And I started wondering how a man could dominate, year after year, a field full of dopers. The obvious answer was that he was doping too and that he was a lot better at it than his competitors. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and defended him, but the obvious became too obvious.

Doping in pro cycling is a very long tradition dating back since the start of the sport. I think that accounts for the willingness of the UCI and race organizers to look the other way. In Europe, pro cycling is big money and money buys closed eyes; a lot of money buys a lot of closed eyes- sort of like Congress and lobbyists. Pro bike racing seems to be about as honest as professional wrestling.

So I came to believe that Lance doped. I watched closely as Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton and Jan Ullrich and others proclaimed their innocence and waged a media battle and sometimes bizarre legal battles. Now we've seen Lance sounding exactly like Floyd and Tyler: strident and whiny. Lance even pulled out the "unconstitutional" card, claiming that the lawfully created American oversight body for sports and doping doesn't have the authority to oversee HIM. Funny that he didn't make that argument when it was Floyd and Tyler in the crosshairs. Lance also forgot the truth that "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel," as he invoked the Constitution to hide behind.

So what we are left with is a tacit admission of guilt by Lance Amstrong. The strong suspicion must be that he gave up the fight not because it was unfair or unconstitutional but because he was going to lose. By quitting now he protects some ambiguity. Why is this important? Because Lance was paid millions of taxpayer dollars as a professional athlete whose results were the result of cheating. He appears to have perpetrated fraud against the American people personally and financially. This actually is a big deal.

It's also got nothing to do with RBW and we probably shouldn't discuss it here, come to think of it. There are plenty of other venues.

Tim

On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:40 AM, Marc Irwin <irwi...@gmail.com<mailto:irwi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

What is also inevitable is a protest and appeal by the UCI. They have protested the jurisdiction of the USADA since the case was introduced and the judge in Dallas told the USADA they didn't have a case worthy of judge to hear. Oh well, it seems the races are "cleaner" now, except for Bradley Wiggins' mouth.

Marc

On Friday, August 24, 2012 5:37:40 AM UTC-4, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com<http://gmail.com> wrote:
Seems inevitable, really, either because Lance *is* guilty of doping or because, by consistently beating others shown to have been doping, he so tested the objectivity of the testing agencies that they could never be happy until they convicted him. I doubt we've heard the last of this, though. . .

lyle

--
lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd
wiscasset, me 04578

207.882.6494<tel:207.882.6494>
206.794.6937<tel:206.794.6937>

On 24 August 2012 01:47, Jim Cloud <Clou...@aol.com> wrote:
Just picked this up from internet traffic:

http://news.yahoo.com/lance-armstrong-stripped-tour-france-titles-internet-shock-233032763.html

Jim Cloud
Tucson, AZ

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lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd
wiscasset, me 04578

207.882.6494<tel:207.882.6494>
206.794.6937<tel:206.794.6937>

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[Peter Morgano]

Now that is a enhancer I can get behind.

[Tom Harrop]

I'm gonna try one of these, so I can keep up with the pros.

[Garth]

Ummm, no Tour titles have been lost yet.  The Tour de France would have to vacate those titles .... and if you think they are going to allow the US tell them who what they can and cannot do ... think again ! 

The whole thing is quite illogical ... and it's far from over.  Here's a great article of Escartin, who finished third to Armstrong in '99.

Fernado Escartin, who finished third behind Lance Armstrong and Alex Zuelle in the 1999 Tour de France, has called USADA’s decision to ban Armstrong and strip him of his Tour titles "illogical".

Escartin was one of the most successful climbers of his generation, competing at the highest level both before and after Armstrong’s first Tour win. In 1999, he raced for the Spanish Kelme squad and won a stage.

Armstrong, who has always denied doping, announced on Thursday that would not contest USADA’s charges relating to doping offences during his time with the US Postal Service squad.

"It's 13 years now since this all happened, it seems completely illogical and unreal. I don't want to even think about it. How far back in time do they want to go?,” Escartin told Reuters.

"Once they have done all the doping tests then that's as far as it should go," the Spaniard said. "It makes no sense.

"In Spain, after five years a legal case is dropped and for me, Lance Armstrong is as much a champion now as he was yesterday."

[Garth]

Peter, what kind of canti's do you have ?

[Peter Morgano]

Paul touring, and I can't get Power at the rear brake.

On Aug 24, 2012 4:52 PM, "Garth" <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

Peter, what kind of canti's do you have ?

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[Andy.M]

hahahaha
I love you guys!

-Andy

On Aug 24, 2:44 pm, Peter Morgano <uscpeter11...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Paul touring, and I can't get Power at the rear brake.

[Brewster Fong]

OK, I'll start another war - forget cantis, Pauls or otherwise!  Get yourself some v-brakes or mini-vs if you're using road levers like Campy ergos. Work way better than cantis with more stopping power and NO brake chatter or shudder. Good Luck!

[Peter Morgano]

I would but I am attached to my dia comp levers as silly as it sounds. I just don't like the look of v brake levers,why can't they do a more classical design? I don't want to use a travel agent or anything like that either. I guess I could do the mini motos, I only run hetres with 52 velo orange fenders so they should clear it.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Wu-wFUPA_GMJ.

[Garth]

Is my reply gone ?  

Anyway ... it sounds like your yoke angle is too high .  On a Bombadil, FWIW .. I wouldn't recommend that style of brake.  Wide profiles work best on a Bombadil, from trying out various brakes types on mine.

[Tim McNamara]

Aaaggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!


OK, just kidding. My tandem came with mini-V brakes. They are not a panacea because they take a lot of cable travel for road levers, so there is very little tolerance for a rim that gets tweaked. But they do stop well and the cable routing is simple.

BTW, cable routing is why the V-brake was invented. It was not to improve stopping power but to make suspension bikes easier to build.

Tim

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Wu-wFUPA_GMJ.

[Eric Platt]

I'm with Garth, check your yoke angle.  I've got Paul Touring cantis on one bike and feel they are very strong.  In fact, just as strong as the V brakes on my other bikes. 

 

Otherwise, check the angle of the pads and arms.  On long arm cantis, I personally set up the brakes so when the pad hits, the arms and yoke are around 90 degrees.  Pretty sure I starting using that from reading the Sheldon Brown article on canti setup.

 

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is my reply gone ?  

Anyway ... it sounds like your yoke angle is too high .  On a Bombadil, FWIW .. I wouldn't recommend that style of brake.  Wide profiles work best on a Bombadil, from trying out various brakes types on mine.

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[Peter Morgano]

Hmm, maybe someone could send over a pic of a good setup?

[cyclotourist]

This works for me: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/1679476454/in/set-72157602592825848 I can lock up the front wheel if I put some effort into it.

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[Tom Harrop]

I'm with you Brewster, I just switched from cantis to Vs and I'm never going back! All with the stock Shimano pads that came with the V-brakes, too. My problems were most likely caused by my inability to set the cantis up properly, but the squeal and shudder is gone and I have 100× better stopping power. NB this is on a 68 cm Bombadil so the enormous head tube could also have been part of the problem.

[Cycletex]

Just Ride!

[Brewster Fong]

On Friday, August 24, 2012 5:21:14 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:

Aaaggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!


OK, just kidding.  My tandem came with mini-V brakes.  They are not a panacea because they take a lot of cable travel for road levers, so there is very little tolerance for a rim that gets tweaked.  But they do stop well and the cable routing is simple.

For road levers, including Campy ergos, the key is to get a mini-v brake. If you really like Paul, they just came out with their mini-motos:

http://www.paulcomp.com/minimoto.html 

I used the cheapie $20 tektro mini-v and it worked well! Prior to using mini-vs, I had suntour xc pro canti and it caused massive chattering/shuddering from the front fork when braking. It was scary and disconcerning. I tried toeing in the pads and that helped a little, but soon reverted back to the chatter/shudder. Switching the front out with the cheapie tektro mini-v and no more problems!

Now, some say my hanger was too high as it was mounted on top of the headset. I suppose I could have tried something like this fork crown cable hanger:

http://www.trpbrakes.com/category.php?productid=1096&catid=188 

http://www.specialized.com/ja/en/ftb/components/roadbrakelevers/tricrossforkbrakehanger 

Anyways, mini-vs work great with Campy ergo levers and were a nice fix for my braking problems. Good Luck!

[Mike On A Bike]

For those interested in seeing a well-constructed defense of Lance
Armstrong w/ ensuing discussion, see this Reddit thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/yqer4/usada_to_ban_lance_armstrong_for_life_strip_tour/c5xzfwx

FWIW, I'm in the camp of "you've got to be freaking kidding to think
that any athlete/entertainer would remain pure when millions are at
stake & you've got to use just to stay even".

On Aug 24, 1:47 am, Jim Cloud <Cloud...@aol.com> wrote:
> Just picked this up from internet traffic:
>

> http://news.yahoo.com/lance-armstrong-stripped-tour-france-titles-int...
>
> Jim Cloud
> Tucson, AZ

[Garth]

Here's a photo of a 2011 Bombadil I found of Flickr ... this looks good ! 

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6009/5948903520_e38ea02c36_z.jpg

Also, make sure your cable cuts are clean and there is no drag in the cable.  With the long arms of these ... from what I have read you should have no problem with power. The lower the straddle cable can be to the tire... the more power it will have. 

[Marc Irwin]

I don't seem to have made my point clear.  During the deliberations, the judge in Dallas admonished the USADA for having evidence too weak to be heard in a a public prosecution against Armstrong.  His decision was not against that, but Armstrong's suit which he dismissed because an arbitration system already existed.  I think, in the great scheme of things, the whole thing is meaningless.  The USADA should spend their resources educating younger athletes and preventing future abuse rather than chasing ghosts.

Marc

[Philip Williamson]

I applaud the threadjackers here. 

For my part, the only brakes that have NOT given me grief in the last... 12.5 years... are the V-brakes on my Bontrager. Disc, single-pivot and dual-pivot sidepulls, cantis both high and low -profile have all laid me out. the v-brakes are the only ones that just work year in and year out. I did also have a center-pull bike that could do nose-stands with 30 year old pads, but I gave it away after a month.

Philip

www.biketinker.com 

[Tim]

Speaking of brakes...:) I'm having issues with the cantis on my newly built Hunqa. The front brake is causing a very violent vibration on the front tire whenever I'm stopping. I called Brian at Riv, since he's the resident Hunqa expert, and he said it's kind of a common problem with cantis and gave me a few suggestions, many of which have the same purpose of shortening the cable, which, to quote Brian, and it is one of the greatest terms I've ever heard from a bike mechanic, has developed a "sympathetic oscillation." Right on Brian! Going to see if I can make the problem go away today. That's better than worrying about USADA any ol' day...

[Ryan Ray]

No such thing as living in a vacuum Peter M. What Lance, Clemens, Bonds, etc did or didn't do impacted others professionally and financially.

Me? I really don't care. What racers do doesn't impact my commute, grocery runs or bike camping experiences in the slightest :)

- Ryan

[Peter Pesce]

Tim. Sounds like the very common shudder that is cured with a fork crown mounted cable hanger. Did Riv suggest that?

Pete (canti-free, only V) in CT

[dougP]

I really like V-brakes on my Atlantis, with over 800 touring miles
this summer, after using Tektro 720 cantis for a few years. The
ultimate stopping power is comparable BUT the Vs requiring far less
force at the lever. On long downhills, the cantis leave my forearms
numb, especially with a load. The only fussy bit about the Vs is the
pad/rim clearance but it's no big deal.

Based on the title, I almost skipped this thread. Thankfully we'll
always have brakes to discuss...and 2TT...and luggage...and racks...

dougP