build differences in hilsens

[Seth Vidal]

I bought a used hilsen from the list and I've been noodling around
with it a bit and checking it over. In comparing it to other hilsen
frames in pictures online I've noticed a lot of differences.

Bottom bracket:

This is a 650b waterford hilsen bottom bracket:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/westerngalebay/6134396595/

This is the 700c waterford hilsen bottom bracket that arrived yesterday:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/skvidal/6310742311/

the 650b has the cable routing as part of the bottom bracket
the 700 has a screw on cable routing

The chainstays:
650b chainstays:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/westerngalebay/6134404921/

700c chainstays:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/skvidal/6311263676/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/skvidal/6310742457/

Notice the 700c has indented chainstays for chainring and tire
clearance - the 650b ones have been shaped differently going into the
bottom bracket.
In looking elsewhere on the net I've seen very few with the indented chainstays.

Rear dropouts:
650b:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/westerngalebay/6134947052/

700c:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/skvidal/6311263676/in/photostream/lightbox/

Completely different dropouts - the 650b has only one brazeon for
racks/fenders at the dropout - the 700c has 2.

The 650b's dropouts are obviously not even the same. They remind me
more of the romulus/rambouillet drop outs. In looking at more pictures
online there appear to be 2-3 different rear dropouts in use on hilsen
builds.

I'm sure these differences don't amount to a hill of beans - but I
found it interesting comparing them. Does anyone else notice any other
differences?

-sv

[Stephen S]

The 650b bottom bracket looks alot like my Rambouillet. 

The 700c bottom bracket looks alot like my Roadeo. 

Do you happen to know how old the 650b is versus the 700c?

Could they have run out of a run of lugs and went to the new style? 

[William]

My 650B Hilsen has the plastic guide, and double eyelets on the rear dropout.  I bought it from Riv in Oct 2010.

[Bruce Herbitter]

The Toyo built 650B shows the same BB set up, chain stays. amd drop outs  as the Saluki. The Wf'd 700 has typical WI details. The Hillbornes made there has the same drop outs for example, and I think the same plastic screw on cable guides.

I strongly prefer the look of un dented stays, but it may not matter to others.

[Joe Bernard]

My 650b has built-in BB grooves, double eyelets.

[William]

Did I mention that my A. Homer Hilsen also levitates, trues it's own wheels, and self-inflates his tires to the perfect pressure every ride.  

A. Homer Hilsen has never done a trackstand

A. Homer Hilsen doesn't always wear fenders, but when he does, he prefers SKS silver plastics 

[Allan in Portland]

I think the differences are more vintage than wheel size. FWIW, my Waterford Hilsen (my recollection is Waterford frames are identifiable by the 3rd set of bottle bosses) is 700C and has all the same distinguishing features of the 650B in the photos you posted.

Or maybe it's a 650B and I've not noticed! :-) It has Silver brakes and the pads are dead center of the slot. I've read somewhere that's the mark of a builder that doesn't trust his tape measure. ;-) Though, I'm not sure I could take a bottom bracket any lower though. I've struck either my foot or the pedal on the pavement pedaling through a turn probably a half dozen times in the last few months. Fortunately, they've all been grazing strikes. Just enough to get my attention and make me gulp. Once as I teenage I had a hard pedal strike lift the back wheel off the ground and laid me over flat on my side to skid my ankle, hip, and elbow about to the bone. It haunts me still.

-Allan
 

[William]

I've run 700C wheels on my 650B Hilsen.  It's only possible with short reach brakes and skinny tires.  

[Rex Kerr]

Nope... I have a 67cm Waterford built AHH with only two sets of bottle bosses.  

[Cyclofiend Jim]

First of all - CONGRATS on getting a Hilsen!

Mine was an early Toyo frame (2007), and had the ridges on the bottom bracket shell itself.   Have you popped off the guide to see if it's the same bb shell? 

A plethora of Hilsen images from my flickr stream -
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=93409214@N00&q=hilsen

It seems like there were a few differences in the rear dropout setup, as well as the way the brazing was done.  Single threaded bosses for fender fore and aft.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/4736723267/

The chainstays seem to have more of an elipse than actual crimping.  It ovalizes near the tire area, then rounds again.

I don't know if it's just the lighting, but does yours have the grey-blue finish rather than the Rambouillet-matching blue?  Expecting to see a lot more images!

yay Hilsen!

- J

[Joe Bernard]

Ooh, that is something I did NOT need to know. (Let's see, I could get some Campy brakes and Super Awesome Aero wheels to go with the porteur bars and wide Brooks, and confuse everyone! Yeah...)

[William]

Here's a shot of the 700c Hilsen.  There are many more in my flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/5467654944/in/set-72157624977899459