650b and the MTB crowd.

[Rick]

Occasionally, when discussing the merits of the bleriot, a local
cycling cognoscente will predict the inevitable demise of 650b. The
conversation usually starts off with a general inquiry, but once I
manage to explain the benefits, and its clear that my arguments are
plausible, the trump card is always that the wheel size will not make
it in the U.S. market.

Perhaps. But at least not for the moment, given the industries annual
need to glom on to some new angle or another. Apparently in the
coming year, for the MTB folks, it will be . . . 650b.

http://bicycling.com/blogs/thestraightdirt/2012/01/26/prepare-for-the-650b-wheel-size-revolution/

[William]

It appears that 650B is certainly here to stay, but it also appears that very little of that new rubber is going to fit on your Bleriot, or my Hilsen, or even my Bombadil.  Even the lion's share of new rims appear to be disc specific.  

It seems likely there will be more shops that stock 650B tubes on the shelf, though, and that will be a welcome change.  

[Tim McNamara]

On Feb 15, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Rick wrote:

> Occasionally, when discussing the merits of the bleriot, a local
> cycling cognoscente will predict the inevitable demise of 650b. The
> conversation usually starts off with a general inquiry, but once I
> manage to explain the benefits, and its clear that my arguments are
> plausible, the trump card is always that the wheel size will not make
> it in the U.S. market.

Meaning that Trek doesn't use it and ignoring the dozens of bike makers who do, or the fact that any bike shop can get a variety of 650B tires and rims.

> Perhaps. But at least not for the moment, given the industries annual
> need to glom on to some new angle or another. Apparently in the
> coming year, for the MTB folks, it will be . . . 650b.
>
> http://bicycling.com/blogs/thestraightdirt/2012/01/26/prepare-for-the-650b-wheel-size-revolution/

LOL!

And heck there are currently more high-performance road tire options in 650B than there are in 26" (559). Most 26" road tires are glorified utility tires that weigh 500-600 grams and have rubber 1/4" thick.

[Montclair BobbyB]

I agree... and I abandoned my 650B projects after struggling with so
few rim and rubber choices... Even the lure of Grand Bois Hetres
hasn't unjaded my thinking...until 650B proves to become more
mainstream I will blissfully enjoy riding my 26ers and 29ers to my
hearts content.

BB

[Peter Pesce]

There's always the battle between novelty for novelty's sake and entrenched convention!
Never having ridden a 650B I can't say anything about it, other than it would have to be pretty darn superior to both 26 and 700c to get the industry to embrace it. One thing that may, however, is if The Great Gia-trek-alized Bicycle Making Corporation gets the impression they are running out of things to sell people, as you say.

Personally, I'm looking forward to getting my ancient steel MTB frame down from the rafters this weekend and building up a rigid, 26", single-speed mountain bike to hit the trails old school this spring!

Pete in CT
"650B is the future... and it always will be."

[Mojo]

Erickson out of Steamboat Springs CO has been promoting 650b nearly as long as Grant. I already have 4 700c bikes3 26ers, & even one 650a. I drawthe line suspension, carbon, & yet another wheel size.

[PATRICK MOORE]

Me, I'm waiting for a 650C mountain bike.

Patrick "one of my Rivs is 650c but it ain't a mtb" Moore

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Mojo <gjtr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Erickson out of Steamboat Springs CO has been promoting 650b nearly as long as Grant. I already have 4 700c bikes3 26ers, & even one 650a. I drawthe line suspension, carbon, & yet another wheel size.

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[William]

There's almost certainly not one wheelsize that is ideal for every kind of riding for every rider.  Me, I'm a medium sized fella (5'10" 170lb) and it turns out for me I like medium sized wheels.  So I've got 3 584 bikes and two 622 bikes (plus a tandem at 622).  559 is a distant memory in my rearview mirror. 

The approach that I find compelling is the notion that wheelsize and bike size could be related.  Riv has 7 models that offer progressive wheelsizes.  I wonder if there are 7 production bike models in the rest of the world that do that?

[stevep33]

Only a few special bike shops carry or know about 650b, so that does make it a boutique or specialty item.  Though I heard about this thing called the internet...

Whatever... most of the better tires are not stocked at local shops anyway, so being a tire snob (which I proudly am) isn't any easier for 700c or 26 than it is for 650b.   So maybe we should be more afraid that high quality tires, in general, will go away if we are going to be worried about 650b going away. 

[William]

true ^^

Most shops dont even have an Ultegra derailer on the shelf, much less a Dura Ace.  I've gotten to the point where I feel like the name of every bike shop employee is: "No-but-we-can-order-it-for-you"

[Peter Pesce]

On Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:27:45 PM UTC-5, William wrote:

true ^^

Most shops dont even have an Ultegra derailer on the shelf, much less a Dura Ace.  I've gotten to the point where I feel like the name of every bike shop employee is: "No-but-we-can-order-it-for-you"

LOL! So true. I can't remember the last time I bought anything but tubes, lube, or brake cables at my LBS. Oh yeah. we got my wife's helmet there.
I am happy to have them around for headset installs, though.

[tarik saleh]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:31 PM, PATRICK MOORE <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Me, I'm waiting for a 650C mountain bike.
>
> Patrick "one of my Rivs is 650c but it ain't a mtb" Moore
>

.thomas frischknecht had some sweet 650c mtb tubulars on carbon rims
at a world cup race a few years ago, I think he had dugast make the
tires to mate with some 650c tri bike carbon rims. The velonews
article on it was at:
http://velonews.com/tech/report/articles/7140.0.html
But no old links seem to work anymore, circa 2006.

--
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tas at tariksaleh dot com
in los alamos, po box 208, 87544
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all sorts of bikes blog: http://tsaleh.blogspot.com

[stevep33]

There is a shop within spitting distance of my office, and it is terrible in every way except its location.  If Trekialized does not make it, they don't sell it or even know it exists.  Every once in a while I need something basic like... cantilever brake pads.  Without fail, they fail to have it.  Crazy.  I don't know who can find anything to buy there - maybe it's a mafia front.  I know this, the mafia doesn't ride their bikes to that shop either because there isn't even a bike rack to park at!?!

That said, a little farther off is a good Riv-ish shop (Harris) that carries all sorts of goodies and seems to have just about all the odd ball stuff I ask for in that neighborhood hardware store how could you possible stock that item sort of way.  Maybe I can't find high-zoot cx tires there, but that's a small complaint.  There are good bike shops, but they are rare.

...rant over,

fwiw 650b is here to stay. good to hear it.

[robert zeidler]

Harris is a world-class shop. 

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[Peter Pesce]

I've made Harris my de facto LBS. UPS ground gets to me overnight. In fact, I have a package from them waiting for me when I get home!

Pete

[dougP]

I am at the other end of the country & have bought things from Harris
that were not even in the "we-can-order-it-for-you" category at any of
the half dozen shops in my area. It seems to me that the large
Trekialized dealers only have replacement parts for current or near
current models. Once a model becomes obsolete, it seems the customer's
option is to buy a new bike, or spend cubic dollars to "upgrade" the
old one.

Recently, a guy I know needed a replacement 9 speed Ultegra road
cassette. Doesn't seem too far out of date, does it? He wound up
buying it on-line.

Next time I'm picking up tubes, I'll have to see if they happen to
carry 650B.

dougP

On Feb 16, 3:16 pm, robert zeidler <zeidler.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Harris is a world-class shop.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 16, 2012, stevep33 wrote:
> > There is a shop within spitting distance of my office, and it is terrible
> > in every way except its location.  If Trekialized does not make it, they
> > don't sell it or even know it exists.  Every once in a while I need
> > something basic like... cantilever brake pads.  Without fail, they fail to
> > have it.  Crazy.  I don't know who can find anything to buy there - maybe
> > it's a mafia front.  I know this, the mafia doesn't ride their bikes to
> > that shop either because there isn't even a bike rack to park at!?!
>
> > That said, a little farther off is a good Riv-ish shop (Harris) that
> > carries all sorts of goodies and seems to have just about all the odd ball
> > stuff I ask for in that neighborhood hardware store how could you possible
> > stock that item sort of way.  Maybe I can't find high-zoot cx tires there,
> > but that's a small complaint.  There are good bike shops, but they are rare.
>
> > ...rant over,
>
> > fwiw 650b is here to stay. good to hear it.
>
> > --
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[Tim McNamara]

Depends on the bike shop. Jim Thill's shop Hiawatha Cyclery is well stocked with the kinds of practical bike gear I buy. Only shop in town like it and therefore the only LBS I go to. Other than vintage stuff, I buy all my bike gear there. (Jim is thinking "I've seen you about once in the past year, WTF?" I was well-stocked and did't have much time to ride last year so I hardly wore anything out...).

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

In the oddball little Rivendell niche, a shop could conceivably stock most of the parts of interest, most of the time. In the broader world of bikes, however, it's impossible. There's just too much, and since few shops can isolate themselves in a niche and survive, we have to be ready for anybody who walks through the door, from the guy who rides dumpstered X-mart BSOs to the bleeding edge roadie to the retrogrouch looking for a wide selection of toe clips and straps to the antiquarian who wants us to find chainrings for his old Stronglight crank. Here, when we're busy, "we can order it for you" means "it'll be here tomorrow". Still, I get a chuckle when customers tell me, "that's ok, I'll try some other shops" when I'm 99% certain that no local shop would intentionally stock such a low-demand item. Good luck, I say! Anyway, "we can order it for you" is not the kiss of death. They'll likely get it faster that you would from Harris or whatever, and if it's a good shop they'll keep you from making a mistake.

[PATRICK MOORE]

Odd -- all the shops around here in ABQ, Duke City, Land of Enchantment, NM, at least those I frequent, have a good supply of parts and accessories, not to mention bikes. They may not have what *I* want, but they will have that XT rd, those M520s, plenty of different chains, Ultegra cranks, whatever headsets they are using these days and so forth. And at least a few will have nice steel stuff like Salsa, Surly and all-dressed city bikes. And all are more than happy to order weird things for me like 16 t Miche outer cogs, Shimano dynohubs, 7 speed cassettes (Fat Tire did this), Schwalbes (Fat Tire got me my 622 Kojaks and even as we speak have Pasela 32s in stock), Sun Rhyno Lite rims (forget who did this -- perhaps High Desert), and clamp-on-bottle cage mounts for NOS down tubes (High Desert). Cycle Cave and the one whose name I forget at the corner of Menaul and and and which my brother and I happened by last Sat (I had not dropped in for almost 20 years) has drawers full of 3 speed parts, as does Cycle Cave (and they know what to do with them). And Bike Coop will build a 36 hole hub into a 28 hole rim. Even the BMX/family bike store nearest me is happy to order 7 speed cassettes and has a very nice display of old veddy English 3 speed roadsters (which they will not sell). 

Where do *y'all* live to be so badly served?

[PATRICK MOORE]

Too bad -- would have liked to see that article. Oh well, old Thomas and I share at least one quality, then.

Back to well stocked bike shops: World Champion, before it closed circa 2001, had a cog board, various Brookses, Milremo stuff, and (on the floor, not in the museum a few blocks away which had all sorts of great old stuff dating back to the 1890s including a complete, museum quality cycling outfit from some club or other) a I-kid-you-not NOS boneshaker that the owner enjoyed denying to the Smithsonian. The problem with this shop is that, even tho' he would have it in stock, the owner (Dick "that's Mr. Hallet to you" Hallet) would answer a request for a weird part with, "It's not worth my while to go find it."

And Stevie's Happy Bikes in Corrales just sold me a NOS, wonderful, 14-30 SunTour Winner 5 sp freewheel for 20 bucks.

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[Bruce Herbitter]

There are more tires out there for road bikes than I can try at any one time, even with (3) 650B bikes. Right now, I'm running Oursons, Maxy Fastys, and Pari-Motos. On the shelf are Cypres, Speedblends (Nifty Swiftys), and Top Touring.  I've never had Hetres, nor the new Lierre's. That still leaves Roly Polys, Col de la Vies, Hutchinsons, B-lines, and I'm sure I'm missing a few.

What were you wanting?

I agree with you on 26s though. I have one bike with Pasela 26 x 1 1/2 on and it rides great too.

BH

[RayO]

You have Stronglight chainrings?!

On Feb 16, 4:28 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:

[EricP]

Actually, it is nice to have a shop like Hiawatha nearby. Or, in my
case, after I pass up oh, maybe half a dozen closer to home shops to
get there. And probably the same from my workplace. (Although there
is a "famous" shop less than 4 blocks from where I work). Every time
I've purchased something from that shop have had to get a replacement
part at Hiawatha. Who knew there were actually two different sizes of
bar end shifter cables?

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

> > good shop they'll keep you from making a mistake.- Hide quoted text -

[Esteban]

Find a friendly shop. Call ahead. Ask if they have X. The likely
won't. They'll order it for you. It comes the next day. Almost
always. They will hold it for you. Stop by the shop the next time
you're riding by. Buy it.

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

[Seth Vidal]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Esteban <prot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Find a friendly shop.  Call ahead.  Ask if they have X.  The likely
> won't.  They'll order it for you.  It comes the next day. Almost
> always. They will hold it for you.  Stop by the shop the next time
> you're riding by.  Buy it.
>

So - maybe that's how it works on the west coast b/c of shipping
providers, especially for overseas parts - but if I call and order a
part it is normally 3-4 days.

-sv

[Peter Pesce]

I've never had anyone at a shop be unfriendly, but honestly most of them have never even heard of the things I'm looking for. Nitto? Blank stare. Cloth bar tape? Chuckle, followed by blank stare. Friction shifter? Centerpull brake? Berthoud bag? Nope, nope and "who?" Koolstop pads? Schwalbe tires? Metal fenders? Fugeddaboudit.

The best I ever get is frantic typing on the computer searching the QBP catalog. However, if I want the hottest new MTB tire or lightest new carbon magnesium helium lollipop road pedal they've got it. That's true at all 5 of the shops nearest me. I'm usually better off at REI.
I've tried, really tried, and a few times have even had shop owners apologetically explian "sorry, but we don't get many customers like you."

[Brian Hanson]

LBS's ?  What are those?  :)  Actually, I like Free Range in Seattle, but it's tough to find a good LBS...

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:27 PM, William <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

true ^^

Most shops dont even have an Ultegra derailer on the shelf, much less a Dura Ace.  I've gotten to the point where I feel like the name of every bike shop employee is: "No-but-we-can-order-it-for-you"

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[Brian Hanson]

Actually, looking at receipts for the past 3 years, Rivendell is my most utilized LBS.  Even being 911 mi, 3 days 8 hours away (via bike by google maps...)

[cyclotourist]

http://www.jensonusa.com/ is my LBS. Really, just down the street from
work. Good people, too, otherwise I wouldn't be writing about them.
They do a LOT of MTB riding right out their back door (Sycamore
Canyon). If you're going to mail order something, I highly recommend
throwing the $$$ their way. They're biased to the MTB side, but have
plenty of everything in inventory.

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[newenglandbike]

I really like the 650b wheel size for MTB, and am glad it is still slowly catching on.    As for availability, I also live near Harris cyclery and they do have 650b tubes and tires.     Awesome bike shop all around, and Elton and Susan rock and know a lot about steel bikes (everyone there is great).      However for MTB tires I've been the Schwalbe Fatty ones from Riv, which last ludicrous amounts of time compared to anything else I've tried.    

So yeah..  For regular brake rims you have Velocity synergy or dyad, for MTB tires there are Quasi-motos, IRC, Kenda and of course the supreme schwalbe 650b Fatty that Riv sells.      I'm all for lots of variety but those choices are sweet and as long as they keep making at least those, we should be good.    


Matt

[Montclair BobbyB]

Ditto...Even though I live in NJ I frequent Harris online. I was in
Boston on business a few years back, and made a point of driving out
to West Newton during a break to visit Harris, and to hopefully meet
Sheldon Brown. Unfortunately Sheldon was attending Interbike that
week (only months before he passed away). I did have the pleasure of
meeting Elton Pope-Lance, who was most gracious in showing me around
the shop (including a quick tour of the basement, where he hid his
beautiful stainless-lugged commuting bike). Harris Cyclery is truly a
GREAT shop, and the people there are awesome.

BB

[Montclair BobbyB]

Bruce:

OK, to be fair, this was 2007/2008... The only 650B rims I could find
at the time were Rigida Sphynx and Velocity Synergy. The Sun CR-18s
had been recalled due to sizing problems... The Sphynx (great rims)
were then suddenly discontinued without warning, replaced by the
Weinmann ZAC19 (which also had sizing problems)...pretty much leaving
the Velocity Synergies as the only viable choice. I owned one of the
last sets of the Sphynx rims with Fatty Rumpkins and Nifty Swiftys for
my Kogswell, which were great. The only off-road tires available at
the time were the Pacenti Neo-Motos, which were pricey 650B
Panaracers.

The 650B situation has definitely improved, but my experience soured
me on it, hate to say...

BB

[Bill Carter]

Jim,
I really appreciate the common sense way you represent the LBS point
of view, but some niche items (for lack of a better term) are just too
far off the radar for most shops. Your shop is a rare exception. I
know and trust a local shop where they actually do very good work. I
try to support and spend with them when I can rather than internet
order everything. I recently asked if they had any seat posts with
more offset, to which the manager replied that posts aren't even made
that way because of the added stress induced by greater offset. I
just went home and ordered one from Harris.
Bill

On Feb 16, 7:28 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:

[cyclotourist]

I love it when I go to a bike shop and they tell me that there is no
such part made. Most recently it was the Park MLP-1 chain link pliers.
First it was "There is no such thing," from one of the MECHANICS (they
typically tend to be more clued in) then finally "Why do you want
that?" from the managerial type.

I ordered on-line.

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[PATRICK MOORE]

Once again, I am very surprised that this is the usual for so many places. We do get idiots like the youngster who was insisting that the 6'4" man next to me needed a 56 cm frame (I snarled and spluttered myself into disgrace that day) but usually at least the older mechanics and the owners/managers are on the ball.

Am I just more mellow, or are we especially blessed here in ABQ?

[Seth Vidal]

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 1:08 PM, PATRICK MOORE <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Once again, I am very surprised that this is the usual for so many places.
> We do get idiots like the youngster who was insisting that the 6'4" man next
> to me needed a 56 cm frame (I snarled and spluttered myself into disgrace
> that day) but usually at least the older mechanics and the owners/managers
> are on the ball.
>
> Am I just more mellow, or are we especially blessed here in ABQ?
>

Patrick,
I don't think you're more mellow. :)

-sv

[David Yu Greenblatt]

Here in Madison, WI, we are also blessed to have many good bike shops, with knowledgeable owners and employees, well stocked with cool bikes and bike parts. Cronometro, Yellow Jersey, Revolution Cycles, Budget Bicycle Center... Even at the flagship Trek Bicycle Store you can find some very skilled and knowledgeable mechanics who truly love bikes and bicycling, including my buddy who rides an Atlantis.

 

Any city that is lacking a good LBS is really lacking something important, in my opinion. It is not just about the convenience of being able to go to the LBS to buy a part the same day that you perceive a want/need. It gets to the question of whether or not your community includes a critical mass of people (other than bike racers and wannabes) who love cycling.

 

I feel very fortunate that when I move later this year for work reasons, it will be to another city that has many cyclists and cool bike shops, San Francisco.

- David G

 

 

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

[Leslie]

I;m going to do this, leaving the names off, except the last one.

There's only one shop in town right now, been there since the mid-70's, is a one-man shop (w/ two or three part-timers), can be there in 10 minutes. It's a Trek/Cannondale shop.  A small supply of accessories; helmets, tubes, pumps, tools, etc.  Drop a bike off for a repair, pick it up next week.  (The part-time mechanics come in on the weekend).  Really nice guy, got my daughter's bike there;  but don't expect to get anything unique.

Little town 20 minutes to the north that I pass through on my way to work, there's a two-man team-sports print-shop (for soccer jerseys, etc.), that has a bike-shop in the corner. It's really that the owner is a serious rider, so he has a 'bike shop' against a wall in his team-shirt store.  Fuji-shop.  Maybe a KHS occasionally, but, predominantly Fuji.  Again, a really nice guy; but, if you walk in the door and say 'bike' you're now welcomed and are a peloton rider with them.  Even if you're not, you are.    

Bigger town 30 minutes south of me has two bike shops.  One is another older shop, a one-man Schwinn shop with a collection of vintage bikes and parts in there. The other is a new shop, Trek, Specialized, and Pinarello.  No old stock, small selection of accessories, clothes mostly.  Glad to hand you the QBP catalog, but, you're on your own for figuring out what you need, if you're looking for Rivish stuff.

Between that town to the south and the town to the east, there's a bike shop 40 minutes away, three or four fellas, is a Giant/Scott shop, and some Surlys. It's the only shop I've mentioned thus far that is comfortable talking 650B, their owner thinks it'll be a part of their future.   From there, another 20 minutes further to the southeast in a small community, is one other bike shop, a couple of guys, that carry BMC, Masi, Haro, Niner, Santa Cruz, and Salsa.  Good MTB store.  They also know a bit about 650b, are expecting it to be big in the coming year. 

The town to the east, 30 minutes away, has two bike shops.  One, is an old bike shop that is also a locksmith/key-cutter shop; a couple of good, gruff but friendly old salts, but I'm not sure what all they carry other than Felt.  The other shop...  is MSL.  It's multi-facet store, has clothing (North Face, Mountain Hardwear, Patagonia, etc), camping gear, Boy Scout equipment, canoes and kayaks, an Orvis fly shop and guide service.  The bicycles are one part, they do have Specialized in there, too, for the majority, but, I'm always at the Rivendells (obviously, eh?).  I wish it was closer, that I didn't have to plan to make a trip over, as it's out of the way to stop in on my way home after work.  I usually get by one weekend, then it might be a month or so before I'm back by again.

There are a few other shops in the region of note, but, mostly, further away and more of the same.  

Thing is, if I have to go in and have them order it, it'll be a week before I can get back by to pick anything up from them.  I'll occasionally do a 'bike-shop-Saturday', where I'll pick two or three of them to hit, and go from one shop to the next, browsing through to see if there's anything I need that they might have, but mostly a social call, to see how they're doing. I usually try to pick up an innertube, or a patch kit, or something from each of them that I stop in at; more often than not, though, if there's something specific I need, it'll be MSL that has it, or, it'd have to be ordered.

But, if it's gonna be a week before I can get back by, then, it makes a bit more sense to use RBW as my LBS if they have what I need, and order from them.  RBW is my local LBS that's on the other side of the continent.

If there's something I'm wanting, that's more generic, that wasn't on a local shelf nor that RBW doesn't stock, then, I'll hit TreeFort, Jensen, Universal, Cambria, Lickton's, Niagara, Wallingford... I need to keep Hiawatha and Harris on that list, too. 

[Rick]

I feel compelled to add that I nicked the link that started this
thread from one of my LBS's facebook page. It's Loose Nuts (they re-
furb'd my wife's '90 rockhopper into a daily rider for my 13 year old,
marathons, cork grips, and some other improvements were added.)

There's another local (I'm in Atlanta) called No Brakes, and the first
time I walked in the door a nice Bob Jackson was sitting on the
floor. While both of these newer (more indie?) places have a bevy of
fixie customers, they tend to know more about my milieu than our
bigger stores.