Hunqapillar Bottom bracket size ?

[Garth]

Greetings,

Anyone know the BB size for an XD triple using 24/36/48 rings on
the H ? I use a Tange 110mm on my Bombadil, for reference . I've not
found a trace of info here or on the net.

Thanks.

[Ginz]

It won't depend so much on the frame as it will on your rear hub and
cassette or freewheel. Assuming you have a 135mm hub that is,
presumably a 9speed or 8speed freehub, a 113mm is probably the best
choice. If you are using a 7sp or 8sp freewheel hub, not as likely
given the 135mm spacing, tell us the exact hub you are using and I'm
sure someone here will have the answer.

[Garth]

Hi Ginz, I currently am using 135mm Phil 7sp FW hubs with multiple
sets of wheels. I may go to a 9sp. cassette one day, but I don't see
what difference that would make regarding the BB length. If you have
further thoughts on this, please do share! I'd use the same 110mm
Tange for the Bombadil if I ever did get some 9 speed hubs. I'm
considering a Hunqapillar or a Sam frame frame currently. I know the
Sam can use the 110 also, and it would be great if the Hunq could use
it also so I'd only need to stock a 110mm BB size for all my bikes. I
always considered BB length a chainring clearance of the chainstay
issue, not a hub issue.

On my early production Bombadil I have a 45-46mm chainline with the
24/36/48 XD and 110mm Tange cartridge BB, clearance for the rings is
just right. I was told by Riv on the later Bombadils, they required a
115mm BB. I was hoping the Hunqapillars would take a 110mm and not a
115mm like the later Bombadils, hence my question.

[Ginz]

Well...interesting choice of hub. I have the same hub on my bike.
However, mine is an older model from the early 90's. I believe I
measured the chainline at 42.5mm. Your's may be a bit different,
though it is most likley 45mm. If you use the Sugino with a 110mm,
that ought to give you a 45mm chainline in front, as well. Even if
your hub and freewheel yield 42.5, it is close enough. With a 9speed
or 8speed cassette, you start to get further away because those are
generally a 47.5mm chainline. However, if you are using friction
shifting (and I hope you are!!), especially in the front, it should
all work fine. The biggest concern is the chain rubbing the front
derailluer in a indexed setup. If your chainline isn't perfect, you
may end up with that annoying rub in certain gear combos.

As far as chainstay clearence, I doubt that you'll have any issues
with the 110mm but you may want to email Riv to be certain. My Hunq'a
frame is still in the box at the moment so I'm not sure either. :)

Ginz

[Leslie]

Interesting.....

I'd previously noticed on Riv's website on the BB page, that they
said:

"Sizing:
Non-Rivendell Road bikes with three chainrings and no bowed-out
chainstays: 110mm.
Any bike with bowed-out, but not ultra bowed-out chainstays: 113mm or
115mm.
Rivendell models except the Atlantis: 113mm.
The Atlantis: 107mm."

But after Grant and made some comment about the Bombadil being more
akin to the Atlantis, I went and looked, also noticed that On the Riv
sample-build page for the Bombadil, they spec a 107-BB for it, too.
Hadn't heard that about earlier Bombas versus later ones.... wonder
how much of that has been superceded...

I don't know about the Hunqa's, which way they'd go, have been
plotting on the Bomba myself, gatherin' information/thoughts.....

[Garth]

I do friction shift Ginz !! .... Always have ... always will :) I've
stuck with FW's all these years because I have a stock of NOS and
barely used Sachs FW's. . . . and the cogs just last and last and
last ! I switched to Squirt chain lube last year.... and I seem to get
even less wear on them. I never did quite get why they spec'd a 47.5mm
chainline with 9sp., as the extra cogs are placed toward the center of
the hub. This always perplexed me why they were engineered this way,
as there is room to move the cogs slightly to the right, toward the
dropout. The way they are, the angles are actually worse for the
larger cogs in the middle and large ring, better if you ride in the
small ring. Pros and cons, as always. But hey... cassettes are cheap,
and meant to be replaced often... so if there is extra wear from the
higher chain angles .... just go with it. Maybe they've designed more
flexible chains these days that minimize the wear though .... just a
thought.

I bet you can't wait to get your Hunqa built up !

Leslie, the Riv sizing ... I'm not sure why they post it, sometimes
they simply don't change or update text though. Yes, the early Bomba
frames could use a 107 or 110, as the driveside length is the same on
Shimano and Tange(IRD) cartridges . When I bought an XD crank last
year Riv told me the new Bomba's needed a 113 or 115mm, FWIW. The Sam
is/was spec'd with a 107mm. Chainrings are not all exactly the same
diameters either... some brands have a little higher profile teeth. I
don't think they can accurately publish the data because they appear
to make running changes in frames from batch to batch sometimes. Okay
for them on a complete bike sale , as they can try and length they
wish... but not so great for consumers who buy the frame alone and do
not have a bunch of lengths on hand. It's always worth it to call Riv
and ask, but never take it as absolute, they are human too .... there
is no experience like first hand !!

[brian tester]

113mm is what I wound up with on my Hunq. I'm also using a Sugino XD
double up front and an 8-spd cassette, btw. I think Riv recommends
113mm BBs for Sugino cranks, at least, on the Hunqapillar.

-Brian

[Ginz]

I never thought of using a shorter spindle to get a better
(straighter) angle between the middle ring and the big cogs. That's
where I spend most of my time. :)

That makes a lot of sense!

[erik jensen]

113 on a white industries VBC double, just for anybody's future searches...

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[Geoff]

Hi Garth,

I got my 54cm Hunqapillar just last month.  I got mine with the Sugino XD2 triple crank 46/36/24.  It was built up with a 107mm BB, but I don't know whether they used Tange, Shimano, or IRD.  I'm taking this info right off my invoice.

Rear spacing is 135mm, and I've got a Shimano LX hub w/8 spd cassette.

Hope this may be of help.

Geoff

[Garth]

Yes Geoff, That helps!

IRD uses Tange specs, but even the Shimano is very very close specs.
As of last year, Riv told me they use only Tange. BTW, the only
difference between a 107 and 110 Tange/IRD is on the left, non drive
side. The Drive side length is the same.

What is the color scheme of your frame ?

[William]

When I was building up my Bombadil last summer, I asked Mark about it, and he said they use 107 on every bike. 

Sometimes I think Riv should do a promotion for having the community update their aging webpage content, but that would be a bear to manage. 

[Geoff]

Hi Garth,

Glad I could be of some help.

I do vaguely recall that one of the Riv guys mentioned only using Tange in their standard buildups, but I guess they list Tange-Shimano-IRD on the invoice, so that it's to the customer's understanding that they could go with one of the other listed manufacturers depending on what they might have on hand at the time.

Thanks for the info on the distinction between a 107 and 110; I did not know.  Always good to learn something new.

My Hunq is the dark grey with seat tube, down tube, and head tube panels in kidney bean red.  Lugs are lined with cream.

My 2011 54cm Hunqapillar

Geoff

[Garth]

Wow Goeff . . . . I swear every photo I see of the grey/kidney bean
colors they look different!! Some look more steelish blue . . . some
look like a dull grey. I realise the lighting , as well as the white
balance on the digital cam has a lot to do with it though. Did they
offer the grey/orange scheme ? They show it in the photos but are not
clear on if it's a new color or upcoming or what. I think I'll give
them a buzz.

Here's a Tange/IRD chart BTW . . .. it's quite useful and very
revealing !!
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh70/thebikesmith/DRIVETRAIN/BB/TANGE/TECHNO_GLIDE.jpg

Compare to Shimano's here from Sheldon. Small differences in
dimensions. I prefer the Tange because they use real metal cups
though!!
http://blog.harriscyclery.com/relative-chainline-bottom-brackets/

I think the only reason invoices and the web site say Tange/IRD/
Shimano is they have not updated their web page. I've noticed that on
other items too. Too busy riding :)

[Geoff]

Hi Garth,

I know what you mean.  Just looking at my pics, the dark grey seems quite a bit lighter in some shots, and more like what it really looks like in others.  It's a dark steelish grey and not dull at all in real life...quite attractive, especially when set against the kidney bean red with the cream borderlines.

I know that there are some Hunqs out there with the orange panels(instead of the kidney bean red ones), but I think those were early production frames.  I wasn't offered the orange panel option when I was placing my order, so as far as I know, the kidney bean red panels are the only standard color scheme currently being offered.  Of course, you could always get a custom paint job like my wife did when she ordered her Betty Foy. 

Thanks for posting the links to the charts...interesting stuff.

[HunqRider]

I will add an additional data point regarding BB size for the Hunqapillar, for anyone stumbling across this thread.  My Hunqapillar has a Sugino XD2 double crank, which originally had 34-48 double chainrings.  The bike was sent to me along with a Shimano UN55 68x107mm bottom bracket.  Upon installing, there was no way that the 107mm BB was going to work; the 34-toothed chainring was almost contacting the chainstay.  So I swapped it out and put in a 113mm bottom bracket; much better.  The 34 chainring is still close to the chainstay (about 3-4mm space), but it has been fine for me in over 1000 miles of riding.

The 107mm BB may work fine if your putting on a Triple crankset, and the most inward chainring is very small.  But if you're going to be using a double with your most inward chainring being a 34 or higher, go with the 113mm BB.