Knee trouble

[soapscum]

Hi,
I'm an infrequent poster, but longtime reader and I'm hoping I'm not
the first person to go through this. Riv content: I ride a Hillborne.
I bought it new from Riv a couple years ago and it's proven itself to
be the best go-everywhere do-everything all-weather bike ever (for
me). I have a lifetime passion for riding bikes of all kinds, and I
can't imagine a life without them. No here's the problem: in a
nutshell, my knee is shot and I'm likely faced with at least a partial
knee replacement. I'm only 45 so I'll likely outlive the thing, so
I've got that going for me, too. Has anyone on the list been through
this, and if so how has it impacted your riding? Any insight is most
welcome, and if it's not appropriate for the list, I'll happily take
it offline. Thanks a bunch.

Cheers,
Shawn Mulanix
Seattle, WA

[Lyle Bogart]

Hi Shawn,

 

I've treated many patients who've undergone full or partial knee replacements. The outcome is generally excellent and should not adversely affect your cycling in the least. Try to make sure that you receive your physical therapy from a PT familiar with the demands of cycling (and who will understand your cycling mindset).

 

Best of luck!

 

lyle

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lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd

wiscasset, me 04578

207.882.6494

206.794.6937

[Michael Hechmer]

I would second the recommendation about PT.  Take advantage of every PT session you can get and be aggressive about tracking down the most competent therapist (and no I am not one)  you can find in your area.  Also, be patient, this recovery is going to take some time, but can be nearly complete.

Michael

[Liesl]

I'm happy to consider any discussion of knees as appropriate for this
group; I hope others do, too. I like to think of Riv Folk as life-
long bikers with bikes that will last as long as our bodies do. At
53, I have one knee that I describe as having gravel under the hood.
Knowing others' journeys with knees and Rivendells is really
helpful.

-Liesl

[PATRICK MOORE]

I'm curious to hear from oldsters (ie, older than young-uns like
myself at a just-turned-57) who ride fixed or ss: how's y'all's knees?

I frequently get minor twinges in the left knee, for a day or two
afterward, after doing a lot of climbing (tho' I have been
"practicing" extending the periods during which I can comfortable
stand while climbing -- half a mile is easy, a mile and even more is
doable when I'm in shape -- the key is to go sloooooooooowly) but
then, again, I felt the same twinges back when I was 17-18 and too
ignorant even to know about low gears even on the steepest, longest
hills.

I expect that, if I did long rides with a lot of hilliness, my knees
would be in jeopardy, but so far they seem safe. That's why I'd like
to hear from older folk who ride fixed -- or ss.

(Tomorrows "Declining with Age" topic: How to learn not to feel
offended when young, feisty 40-something bucks pass you.)

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-------------------------
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-------------------------

A billion stars go spinning through the night
Blazing high above your head;
But in you is the Presence that will be
When all the stars are dead.

Ranier Maria Rilke, Buddha in Glory

[Zack]

I am with Liesl - knee care and riv riding seem like they can go hand-in-hand.

I have a torn MCL which causes my knee to buckle occasionally, and a few days of instability/some pain follow.  Riding my riv has certainly helped strengthen the rest of my leg muscles, which is the prescription for a torn MCL.

I have often wondered about getting a over-the-counter brace though, as it seems like that might help.  

[Bill Gibson]

I suffer with knees, too, sometimes. Good to know that knee replacements are working out generally; my father has an early one that is still working well. He rides a stationary bike these days, but rocks it at 85. His mother also had knee problems (ever since she jumped off the Great Wall of China in the 1920's, onto the back of a horse ala Tom Mix, according to her).

 

I've lost much cartilage, and had both knees scoped, one done twice, but good use seems to polish the bone. Nothing better than cycling to keep my knees happy. I also do balance and stability weight workouts; lunges with hand weights, a wobble board. I've often thought that bracing isn't as good an idea as strengthening, if possible. I've found that some glucosamine/condroitin, etc. supplements don't work, some do. The one that is working for me is "Cosamin DS", which I get at Costco. Not cheap, but cheaper than $30K-$40K for a knee replacement. YMMV!

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Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA

[Tim]

Shawn,
It just so happens that I had both knees replaced in January of 2010.
I was 49 at the time and so I fully expect to have them replaced one
more time before the end of my life. With that being said, the surgery
has not hampered my cycling at all. In fact, I trained for and rode
the Southern Tier route from San Diego to Florida last summer, just 18
months post-surgery and had no issues with my knees at all. Make sure
you do your PT, as has been said. My doctor told me that they really
like to hear that knee patients ride, because they're not out there
pounding their knees. Oh, one thing I've changed is that I try to use
slightly lower gears, so as to spin more than mash the pedals, but it
has not been a drastic alteration by any means. Best of luck to you,
Shawn!

[Tim]

Oh, I forgot to add, in my earlier reply, I don't push quite as big of
a gear as I used to, but nothing, not mountains or sprints, is a
problem.

[soapscum]

Thanks, everybody. It's reassuring to learn that it's not the end of
the world, or even the end of cycling. I can still ride a bit, and
have been using my Hillborne as my wheelchair...now if I could only
get the crutches into my panniers!

[Beth H]

On Apr 9, 11:29 am, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm curious to hear from oldsters (ie, older than young-uns like
> myself at a just-turned-57) who ride fixed or ss: how's y'all's knees?

I've had recurring knee twinges for years, since a high school track
injury ended my running days and sent me onto the bike.
I've noticed it a lot more in the last few years -- basically since I
began racing singlespeed -- that my knees, espcially my right knee,
will twinge more often. I noticed it last year when I experimented
with "working out/training to race". While I did lose weight working
out in a gym, and my muscles got stronger, my joints did not. By the
end of short-track season I was ready for the several weeks away from
the singlespeed bike before cyclocross. By mid-November, the
combination of singlespeed racing, thick mud and dropping temperatures
forced me to skip the last four local races of the season because my
knees couldn't handle it.

A cut in hours at work meant the end of the gym membership this winter/
spring. When I pulled out the singlespeed bike to just ride around the
neighborhood, I slapped on a bigger cog in the rear and it still
didn't help. I've ridden the SS bike three times since New Year's, and
I will most likely sell it this spring.

I can't afford knee replacement surgery, so instead I'm listening to
my body and taking preventative steps to insure I'll have these knees
for as long as I can. If that means hanging up racing (and
specifically singlespeed racing/riding), so be it. I had a good run
and I'm ready to Get Mellow.

Beth in PDX, where it's only hilly part of the time.

[Phil Bickford]

Yup, I'm up here in Sonoma County "Getting Mellow," too Beth.

I've got Osteoarthritis in my right knee and to a lesser degree in the
left, but I used to enjoy fairly good knee health. There would be the
occasional need for icing, but I used to joke that a little bit of
swelling would keep things in place.

My riding ranged from 200 to 300 miles a week in 40-50 mile bites.
One or two of those rides were fixed gear. I never could hack the
offroad single speed thing although the few times I did ride fixed
offroad were a blast.

My mom has had both her knees replaced and I have spent 25+ years
working on the floor. If anything my bike riding helped my knees -
even the fixed stuff - I never used an outrageously big gear.

My riding now consists of getting around town, and a close-to-daily
recreation/therapeutic ride of about 1.5-2 hours on flat ground.
Though initially it was on my singlespeed, I've now got a Sturmey
Archer B2C kickback hub that seems just right for me. 48/68 gear
inches provides enough low to get me moving, and enough high to make
it feel exciting.

I think once I sell off a good portion of my bikes and gear I'll be
looking forward to getting a Riv Simpleone, or whatever the present
generation is, provided they build some my size.

Phil B

[PATRICK MOORE]

Interesting conversation. I truly expect that one reason my knees are
still fine is that I ride shorter distances at a time and cumulatively
than many of the rest of you.

My knees were fine on todays minimally extended 40 miler.

[Leslie]

Twentysome years ago, signed up for the Marine infantry, in the reserves a year before starting into college at the same time.  The attitude of the Corps for infantry reserves is, we only have you for a few days a month, so we're gonna flog ya hard to keep you up-to-snuff.  Lots of 20-mile humps w/ not-so-light rucks and gear, over not-so-smooth terrain.  Fivish years later, while on my college's fencing team, I was having some knee problems, and my family practitioner happened to have been an orthopedic surgeon in the Army during Vietnam.   Finally he just out and said, if I didn't get out of the Marines, I'd be arthritic by the time I was 30.   I'd had a shift in direction, no longer planning to be an officer anymore, became a geologist (happy move).   So, I finished out my six and parted ways w/ the Corps, on to grad school.  

Bought me better than a decade...   My knees would creak and pop, but nothing startling.   Until this past year, as I've turned 40, my right knee now has gotten 'crunchy'.  Not through 'normal' range of movement, walking or sitting, but, if I squat down to lift something off of the ground using my legs (keeping my back straight!), my knee is very audible, like you're wadding up cellophane.  A couple of months ago, my physician took a set of x-rays to have a baseline on-hand, to go forward with...

+ + +

And, this kinda ties back to the crank discussion, so I'm torn about posting this question here, or in the crank-thread...

Think I'll put it over there....

[Leslie]

Changed my mind.... that thread over on i-bob seems to have gotten a bit heated...

My Ram has a 172.5 crank (Dura Ace triple, 53/39/30 rings, with a 11-32 9sp cassette), as a baseline.   No problems...   I usually stay on my 53 ring when cruising, drop to the 39 for climbs (try to reserve the 30 for steeper climbs). 

I'd gotten a Sugino XD2 triple (48/36/24 w/ a 11-34 9sp), but in 175, for the Bomba.  Different bike, different tires, different feel, but that's okay.   Slower cadence, not a problem, mostly.    But, occasionally, on shallow climbs where I'm not shifting off of the 48, but instead am mashing through it, I feel a bit of a twinge in my knee.  Quit mashing, lighten up, twinge ceases.   The crank length may not have one iota to do with it, but, I've wondered, if I'd be better off switching down to the same length crank.   Or, even on down to 170?  (32" inseam, 87.6 PBH, FWIW).

Thoughts? 

[dean brock]

Before surgery I would check into prolotherapy and prolo ozone therapy.

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[Chris]

That crank length thread is a bit heated over at i-bob.  

I've also been wondering if I should get a shorter crank because of left knee pain, which tends to start and gets progressively worse at the 20th mile mark.  There are quite a few crank length calculators out there, all giving me results ranging from 165mm to 177.5mm.  

I currently ride a Sam with 175mm Sugino triple crank (82.5 PBH).  

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2012-04-11 at 22:14 -0700, Chris wrote:
> That crank length thread is a bit heated over at i-bob.
>
>
> I've also been wondering if I should get a shorter crank because of
> left knee pain, which tends to start and gets progressively worse at
> the 20th mile mark.

I think if you're getting knee pain at mile 20 there's something far
more serious wrong than incorrect crank length. I'd look into that, if
I were you.

However, one thing all the old-time rules seem to agree on is that if
you have a history of knee trouble you should stay away from long
cranks. Makes sense, in that longer cranks make your knee bend more.