Why all the miles?

[Manuel Acosta]

Got to tag along with some SF Randonndeurs, Ely from Ruth Bags, Ray from Mission Bags and David on their Jittery Jaunt 200k Permanent that took us to the small town of Valley Ford. I'm not too fond of doing this much mileage but was pretty curious about exploring around the Petaluma area so I figured it would be good to explore with people that knew how to get around and answer that dying question, Why all the miles? Those randonneur guys, you would think that would enjoy riding all those miles, but the ugly truth is that they don't. Apparently no buddy does. So what's the big deal? Why would anyone want to put their body through that much suffering? I went along searching for this answer. 

And finally got it after a day of recovering.

When you have been riding your bike for the whole day and your whole body is telling you this is a stupid idea. The only thing that pushes you along, sometimes literary, is the other stupid people that is suffering with you. You learn a lot about yourself and others when you're cramping and riding up a steep grade in the middle of the night and the only thing that pushes you on is that there are other people waiting for you with more food. That sense of finishing something you set your mind to and doing it in the company of great people and amazing scenery with plenty of food breaks makes the whole experience a little less painful. 

Pictures prove that miles really don't matter but riding with amazingly supportive and friendly people do:

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjD9oML9

-Manny "Oh the wonderful healing properties of snickers." Acosta

[Brian Hanson]

Sounds about right, Manny.  Congrats!  Now have a rest :)

Brian

Seattle, WA

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[IanA]

Sounds like you're hooked after one ride. Awesome.

[Michael Hechmer]

I used to regularly do a "Double Gap Century" ride that was actually 113 mies with two major climbs and lots of big hills.  Now I wonder why?  I really enjoy two hours of riding, three hours is fine, but when I cross the four hour mark, I just want off the bike.  At that point I'm no longer enjoying the scenery.

Michael 

[PATRICK MOORE]

And yet you would not think from reading BQ that radonneurs hate their
pastime -- where 200 km is just a short, everyday jaunt.

Me, as the man said, "I'd rather stick a pencil in my eye." But to
each his own. I like hills (short ones).

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[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2012-12-09 at 23:38 -0800, Manuel Acosta wrote:
> Got to tag along with some SF Randonndeurs, Ely from Ruth Bags, Ray
> from Mission Bags and David on their Jittery Jaunt 200k Permanent that
> took us to the small town of Valley Ford.

Interesting. That should not have been allowed, as it violates RUSA
rules for riding Permanents.

> I'm not too fond of doing this much mileage but was pretty curious
> about exploring around the Petaluma area so I figured it would be good
> to explore with people that knew how to get around and answer that
> dying question, Why all the miles? Those randonneur guys, you would
> think that would enjoy riding all those miles, but the ugly truth is
> that they don't.

I cannot imagine how you came to that conclusion.


> Apparently no buddy does.

Surely you meant to say "nobody"... and, of course, you would be
completely wrong in believing so.

> So what's the big deal? Why would anyone want to put their body
> through that much suffering?

200K and "that much suffering"? That is really a stretch. Now if you
were describing 1200K, that might be another story.

> I went along searching for this answer.
> And finally got it after a day of recovering.
> When you have been riding your bike for the whole day and your whole
> body is telling you this is a stupid idea.

Either you're not in condition for doing a ride that long, or there is
something really wrong with your setup on the bike. 200K is, after all,
only around 25 miles longer than the typical century, and centuries have
been part of recreational cycling since the 19th century (they did them
on penny-farthings).

> The only thing that pushes you along, sometimes literary, is the other
> stupid people that is suffering with you.

"People" is plural; I wouldn't call that "literary"... but then, you
probably meant "literally" anyway.

> You learn a lot about yourself and others when you're cramping and
> riding up a steep grade in the middle of the night

You rode a 200K in the middle of the night? What time of day did you
start? You get 13 1/2 hrs to ride a 200K, so you would have had to have
set out very late in the day to end up finishing as late as that.

> and the only thing that pushes you on is that there are other people
> waiting for you with more food. That sense of finishing something you
> set your mind to and doing it in the company of great people and
> amazing scenery with plenty of food breaks makes the whole experience
> a little less painful.

I don't think you'll find many randonneurs who find a 200K to be as
painful as you describe, or who regard it as anything like the death
march you make it seem.

For a somewhat different perspective, let me quote from Seven's 2013
brochure _Love To Ride_, p. 10-12, an article entitled "Through the
Night, Together" by Sandy Williams:

"More than a format, randonneuring is a culture highlighted by long
routes and camaraderie. Rando legend Melinda Lyon suggested that, first
and foremost, randonneurs are always polite: you can ride hard, but your
speed remains secondary to consideration for everyone, whether it’s
another rider, a course volunteer, a motorist, a citizen with no
affiliation with the event, or your own safety. In races, other riders
try to drop you; in randonnees, your company is a welcome part of the
journey. The course itself is the daunting competitor.

"The direct translation of the French word “randonnée” is “hike.” In the
context of cycling, “randonneuring” is a French invention in the same
spirit as events that call themselves a “challenge.” It is not a race
because there are no awards or placings, and it is not a relaxed tour
because the difficulties are unpleasant at times. There are, however,
time limits for reaching each rest station.

"Much of the challenge is due to a randonnee’s length. The “short”
version, a “brevet” (French for “brief”) is scaled in increments
of 100 kilometers—100K, 200K, 400K, etc. While most new randonneurs will
try a 200K, many soon try a longer version, both for the challenge and
the appeal of riding long routes with like-minded riders. The allure is
not more suffering, but a craving to make a full day of it. Extending
into the night only amplifies what makes the sport great. You explore
like never before.

"Randonnee rules are almost transparent. For example, rules require
obeying traffic laws, which is the case under any circumstance.
Riders have to follow the designated route—which sounds like an
invitation to shortcut, except that the route typically follows
the best course between points, if not steering clear of outright
misery. Randonnees also disallow crew support between designated
checkpoints, but that is simply the reality of the open road—and the
fact that friends are generally unwilling to drive 200 miles to meet
riders in the middle of nowhere with coffee and pastry at 2 am.
Thus randonneurs navigate and plan their ride with extra food, clothes,
and tools.

"Randonnees are open to riders of all backgrounds and goals, from racers
to tourists, from experienced ultradistance riders, to weekend warriors
looking to highlight their season. They are a classless society.
Everyone starts together and gets the same support en route.
Randonneuring completely echoes the French motto “Liberty, equality,
fraternity”—no wonder it has surged in popularity in the States.
The first-timers look tense at the start, but by the end, or at least
after a night’s sleep, one of two things has happened: either
that rookie has a once-in-a-lifetime experience, never to be repeated,
or is completely hooked and can’t wait for the next ride."

[Jan Heine]

Randonneuring and Fun:

It all depends how and with whom you ride. Having participated in four
Paris-Brest-Paris, I have observed the finishers from the fast 50-hour
riders until the 92-hour stragglers who arrive outside the time
limit.

At the front, the finishers look like people after a bike race:
Exhausted, but exhilarated. After the finish, they talk and laugh -
too much adrenalin to go to sleep despite having been up for two days
straight.

In the middle, you get all kinds. Some have pushed themselves to the
max, others have taken a relatively easy ride. Almost all look fine.
Those who struggle have the luxury to take a rest, and recover.

Toward the back, you see more and more riders whose bodies and faces
tell of a gruesome ride. First, they spend much more time on the bike.
Second, they start to brush against the time limit, so they no longer
have the luxury to slow down, rest, recover, etc. Third, riding a bike
slowly is much harder on your body than riding fast, because you don't
support your body with the thrust of the pedaling forces, so you rest
more on your arms and behind. Toward the end of the ride, you see
riders with Shermer's Neck, who have hooked a bungee from their helmet
to their saddle to be able to see the road, riders who can hardly walk
after they get off their bikes. (Of course, there also are riders who
finish strong at the end, and who just have taken the time they need.)

So depending on where you ride, you will see very different
randonneuring experiences.

It's also not a good idea to judge a long event from your first
experience. Like almost everything, long-distance cycling gets easier
with practice. Your body adapts, and more importantly, your mind
adapts. You get used to not sleeping and actually enjoy riding at
night. I've run one marathon, and man, was it hard. But I won't
conclude from that experience that marathons cannot be fun. When I see
the fastest runners float across the course, finishing a whole hour
faster than I did (which means they complete the run in 2/3 of the
time!), I can see that I'd need more training and familiarization to
approach that level of proficiency and fun.

Distance cycling is all relative - when I told a guy in Texas that I
had done a 28-mile race that day, he was incredulous that one could
ride that far on a bicycle!

Of course, there are limits - I know only one rider who claims that
Race Across America was fun. For me, the limit is somewhere around 55
hours. Any longer, and it stops being fun. I have to admit that on
most rides over 30 hours, there is an hour or two when I don't really
enjoy it, but that is life. Almost every day has an hour or two when I
do things I don't enjoy that much.

The lows, as long as they are limited, make the ups so much more
enjoyable. Seeing the sun rise after having ridden all night is a
powerful feeling. Cresting a mountain pass under a full moon is
something you won't experience unless you are a long-distance riders.
Arriving in Brest as the sun sets, 24 hours after you started the
ride, and realizing that you have ridden to the end of the continent,
is very emotional. Looking at a map of the world and being able to
trace a ride like the Raid Pyreneen gives you a sense of achievement.
But most of all, it's living in the moment, riding a bike, and truly
enjoying it as the landscape unfolds. Why stop when you are having
fun?

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
http://www.bikequarterly.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

[Jan Heine]

P.S.: I wrote an pretty honest account of the Raid Pyreneen, which I
rode a few weeks after Paris-Brest-Paris in 2011. You can find it
online at

http://www.bikequarterly.com/sample_articles.html

I can assure you that if it wasn't fun, I wouldn't do it.

Jan Heine

[Garth]

Whether one rides one mile or two hundred miles ..... to whom does one compare but to themselves ?

Thus .... every ride is what one chooses to make of it :)

No ride too far .... no ride too short  .... for in truth we go nowhere but places of the hearts mind


I ride for no other reason than the ride ..... for the ride is I ... and I the ride :)

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2012-12-10 at 07:37 -0800, Jan Heine wrote:
> The lows, as long as they are limited, make the ups so much more
> enjoyable. Seeing the sun rise after having ridden all night is a
> powerful feeling. Cresting a mountain pass under a full moon is
> something you won't experience unless you are a long-distance riders.
> Arriving in Brest as the sun sets, 24 hours after you started the
> ride, and realizing that you have ridden to the end of the continent,
> is very emotional. Looking at a map of the world and being able to
> trace a ride like the Raid Pyreneen gives you a sense of achievement.
> But most of all, it's living in the moment, riding a bike, and truly
> enjoying it as the landscape unfolds. Why stop when you are having
> fun?

Riding down a back country road at dusk, as the sun starts to set and
the sky turns rosy pink and gradually fades to purple and goes to full
dark can be thrilling and beautiful. Then, after everyone turns their
lights on, you can see the other riders' tail lights up ahead, like a
string of Christmas tree lights moving through the darkness. It's all
quite beautiful; and you can get it on a November 200K easily.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I've done more than a few long, challenging rides up to about 175 miles per day and 400 miles in 3 days, including an actual brevet or two. "Enjoyment" is a subjective term. There's the enjoyment of taking in the scenery and enjoying the ride for its own sake. There's also the enjoyment of pushing through personal barriers to accomplish something difficult. Sometimes a person can do both at the same time, sometimes not.

Personally, I don't care for brevets. The specified route and the time cutoff suck much of the fun out of it for me. I prefer to ramble aimlessly and explore without a deadline.

[dougP]

Manny:

As always, thanks for the photos.  To your question of "Why?", my observation is that there is a tremendous variation among riders regarding when we are "done", i.e., ready to be off the bike & into something else.  I recall finishing a century many years ago feeling much as you describe.  My riding partner was flying high and talking about doing a double (..."wrong time to ask..").  I think it's simply easier & more natural for some riders to chalk up big miles.  I know how my body reacts to big miles (poorly!) so I keep the mileage to distances and a pace that I enjoy. 

dougP

[William]

The Jittery Jaunt is a very very fun ride.  It's a fabulous way to spend a day. 

On Sunday, December 9, 2012 11:38:44 PM UTC-8, Manuel Acosta wrote:

[Michael]

I have done a 75 miles ride this year. Had a great time, but started getting sloppy with my handling and tired at the end. No training, just my small commutes. We took two breaks.

I was thinking, if we were gonna push for 100, I'd probably need two breaks for the last 25 miles.

 

I hope to do a century one day, just to try it. No training - just the commutes again. Just want to see if I can do it. I love riding, but not motivated enough to train.

 

A nightmare would be not being in the mood and going out on one of those long rides anyway.

 

I would like to do some touring, but don't know anyone in the area who does it who could show me the ropes.

[Jim Mather]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Michael <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
> I would like to do some touring, but don't know anyone in the area who does
> it who could show me the ropes.
>

I bet that at least 50% of the people on this list who have toured
didn't have anyone to show them the ropes the first time. Pick a
route, pack some gear, and go. You'll find out what works and what
doesn't work for you as you tour more. It's not like you're trekking
to the north pole -- no polar bears to fend off, no ice floes to crawl
over. If you don't like it, turn around and go home.

Adventure Cycling on general planning:
http://www.adventurecycling.org/features/tourplanning.cfm

Riv on one night's gear:
http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=37

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2012-12-10 at 14:31 -0800, Michael wrote:
> I would like to do some touring, but don't know anyone in the area who
> does it who could show me the ropes.

Where are you located?

[Steve Palincsar]

And don't forget, touring isn't synonymous with camping. If you stay in
hotels, you don't need most of the stuff shown on the Riv site.

[David Yu Greenblatt]

Q: Why ride all the miles?

A: To obtain the smiles.

http://flic.kr/p/dzJi7d

- David G in SF

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Manuel Acosta <manueljo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[David Yu Greenblatt]

Attain, too.

[dougP]

Over the years, I've met lots of people on tour who are on old MTBs, racing bikes with P-clamped on racks, & crappy luggage who are having the time of their lives.  The common thread is a sense of adventure.  They just used what they had on hand & made it up as they went along.  Start with an S24O & work up to a few days, maybe in a loop from your home out'n'back thru an area you are familiar with.  Just riding your bike with a bunch of stuff & sleeping somewhere other than home is an adventure in itself. 

dougP

[dougP]

David:

I think you've captured Manny nicely with that one.  Even if he grumbled later, looks like a good time there.

dougP

[Eric Norris]

I have to believe that Manny was being facetious about "no buddy" (or "nobody") liking randonneuring. I've been riding long distances for 30 years now (first double century was in 1983), and I know it's not true at all that nobody likes riding long distances. I, for one, like it.

I've done many, many hard rides that were at times very unpleasant. Many times I've asked myself just what the heck I'm doing out here in the (pick one or more) rain, heat, cold, dark, or middle of nowhere. But at the end of the day, there is a tremendous sense of satisfaction (for me, and for many others, if not for everyone) to be had from overcoming the discomfort and reaching a difficult goal. 

PBP in 2007--in the rain, on a fixed gear--was the hardest ride I ever hope to do, but it's also one of my proudest accomplishments. And while finishing that event was bought at the price of a lot of discomfort and a lot of effort, it was totally worth it.

Not everyone approaches cycling this way. There is much to be said for the fun of a 2-mile ride with your spouse or kids. But it's not accurate to say that "nobody" likes randonneuring or any other brand of ultra-distance riding.

--Eric Norris

PBP 2007 (fixed gear)

PBP 2011 (gearly)

Santa Rosa to Seattle (40-pound singlespeed)

California to Kansas (fixed gear)

www.CampyOnly.com

CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com

Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

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[Lawnsbyt]

Awesome picts Manny! Thanks for sharing, I've often wondered why some cyclists go to the extreme, seeing those photos make me want to ride over the horizon and just keep on going!

On Sunday, December 9, 2012 11:38:44 PM UTC-8, Manuel Acosta wrote:

[William]

Gearly!  I'm gonna use that.  

[jimD]

This discussion reminds me of an brief on-road conversation I had with a fellow who appeared to be about my vintage (old).
This gentleman passed be as we were riding down a boulevard punctuated by stop lights. As he passed I saw that his seat bag was unfastened, he wore a Randonneurs USA jersey, he also sported a resplendent gray handlebar mustache.

I caught up with him at the next light and mentioned that his seat bag was unfastened. He thanked me, fixed that and we rode down the lane engaged in conversation. I mentioned his jersey and asked him about randonneuring. He had ridden Paris-Brest-Paris several times and numerous double centuries. The remarkable thing was that he was pretty grumpy about these endeavors.
I mentioned that I had ridden the Death Valley Century a few times and really enjoyed it. He responded with how windy it was when he rode the Death Valley Double. Every ride we talked about he had ridden and had only negative comments.

I ponder this occasionally. I know that preparing for P-B-P is a significant undertaking. This fellow seemed deeply involved and experienced and pretty grumpy about it all. I've never really figured this out.

I truly admire randonneurs. From their writing, I can see that Jan Heine and other randonneurs enjoy the sport deeply.
My personal criteria for being 'fit' is to be able to ride 100 mile rides on succeeding days without undue suffering.

Generally I find that 65 miles is about right for a bike ride.

-JimD

[Anne Paulson]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Jim Mather <math...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Michael <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>> I would like to do some touring, but don't know anyone in the area who does
>> it who could show me the ropes.
>>
>
> I bet that at least 50% of the people on this list who have toured
> didn't have anyone to show them the ropes the first time.

I bet at least 50% of the people on this list who have toured would be
happy to show a newbie the ropes.

--
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

[Evan]

Fantastic photos, Manny! I, for one, find your story more inspiring than discouraging. At any rate, I plan to ride farther than usual this coming weekend!

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Eric, this is (for me) simultaneously accurate and inspirational.  Reflecting back on accomplishments in any sphere, achieved in the face of real difficulty, is one of the great satisfactions of life.  Thanks for summing it up so well. 

 

And, +1 for Bill’s comment.  “Gearly.”  That, I suppose, makes your PBP 2011 a “gearly-man” ride?

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[Mike]

I've been randonneuring for the past 5 years and love it. I actually came to randonneuring and Rivendell at the same time, shortly after moving to Portland and just looking for rides and routes in the area. My first event was a 100k populaire in the fall of 2007. I was hooked from that first event. The people were friend and encouraging and through the event I found myself exploring new roads. The next year I completed 200k, 300k and 600k, the following years 2 years I added in 400k's. This year I did my first 1200k which was quite an experience due to weather (primarily rain on the 1st and last day, headwinds through the morning of the 3rd). I've had my share of low points on rides where my mind and/or body says "Uggh, no more" but have managed to always push through it with a combination of usually food and encouragement from fellow randonneurs. But I've also experienced quite a bit of cycling nirvana while randonneuring pedaling down remote roads through awesome geography, alone and in a group.

I don't have time to tour/bike camp the way I'd like and so randonneuring offers a great way to check-out new roads and places over a relatively short amount of time. After completing my first 300k it changed how I look at centuries and 200k rides where they no longer seemed like a such a challenge and really helped encourage and motivate me to go on longer rides by myself and explore new roads. This has been great because I don't drive so if I want to see certain places located around my home here in Portland I'm gonna have to pedal out there.

In my second year of cycling I tried to complete and R70 (complete an SR series in 70% of the allotted time) and managed to complete the 200k, 300k, and 400k in this time but things fell apart on the 600k which was way too hard. I ended up finishing that with just an hour and 15 minutes to spare and while I was completely wrecked physically and psychologically for the last 15 miles. I also saw amazing terrain and had far more miles with a smile on my face than a grimace.  

I've come to realize that in spite of enjoying long days in the saddle I don't enjoy 400k(250 miles) brevets and don't like riding at night after 11pm. The 400k is just a bit too long. I'm good for about 220 miles at a pop. That last 30 miles just kills me. All the same, I'll probably do a 400k next year just to get another SR award and be in standing for doing the Cascade 1200k again in 2014. If I train a bit in the winter and go into it better prepared I should be able to finish before 11pm unless there is a ton of climbing on the route.

It was through randonneuring that I learned to ride in the rain. Of all the brevets I've completed I think I've only done 3 where there was no rain on the ride at all. Sadly, I've twice done 200ks where it rained from start to finish and the temperature never got above 45 degrees.

I feel like I'm still learning about nutrition but I rarely bonk any more on rides of any distance. That said, this year I had issues with cramps on every brevet I did, and all at the 100k mark. This is due to going out too fast at the start and not eating enough. Simple rookie mistakes due to being excited. But I finished all of my rides this year feeling good and not just because I'm off the bike but because I enjoyed myself. 

I totally get it that randonneuring and long miles aren't for everyone. It's become a bit cliche to say "randonneuring is a big tent" but it really is true. There's room for everyone. Not everyone has to take Jan's approach and pedal through the night on longer events. Knocking out the miles at a steady pace with some leisurely stops for food can also work. 

Most of my brevets get completed between March and June and usually after the last event, usually a 600k, I tend to take a break as summer starts. I find myself putting away the bib shorts and clingy cycling clothes. When I go out for a ride I find myself reaching for my bike with platform pedals and wearing my MUSA shorts and some seersucker. 

If there is a randonneuring club in your neck of the woods, check them out. Do a 100k populaire. If you're fortunate enough to live in the Seattle area, check out one of the Seattle International Randonneurs (SIR) rides. I live in Portland and finally managed to get up there this year for a 600k and it was great. Awesome support and very well organized with a ton of friendly and encouraging riders. SIR also ran the Cascade 1200k and again the support was awesome. 

Some info for folks curious about randonneuring:

http://www.rusa.org/about.html

http://www.bikequarterly.com

http://lynnerides.blogspot.com

http://greenhornetrandoing.blogspot.com

http://randobiker.blogspot.com

My randonneuring sets on Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41335973@N00/collections/72157623467862287/

[Marc Irwin]

It's all relative to your personality and ability.  I constantly run into people who are amazed that I can ride 15 miles, but they probably haven't ridden a bike since they were 8 and have the memory of a child on an ill fit department store cruiser.  On the other hand, I will usually go for the metric century on organized rides and am happy to finish in 5 hours, while friends will be compelled to ride a 100 mile route and be unhappy to finish it ouside of 5 hours.  Me, I enjoy the riding enough that I don't need to make work of it, others see only the competition and glory of reaching new heights.  To each his own.  When I get beyond 80 miles a day on a tour, it becomes more work than fun.

Marc

[Ray Shine]

There are extremes, of course:

http://www.outsideonline.com/blog/outdoor-adventure/expedition-watch-riding-a-fat-bike-to-the-south-pole.html

---

From: Marc Irwin <irwi...@gmail.com>
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, December 11, 2012 9:13:28 AM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Why all the miles?

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[RJM]

I agree with you Marc, to each his/her own. A 65 mile ride, especially on a charity ride where I have friends and family along, is absolutely perfect for me. It is enough that I feel like I rode but it isn't enough that I have to take the next day off or anything.

 

I have been hitting the hills pretty hard the last year and I learned to enjoy them more. I actually search them out now.

[Patrick in VT]

On Monday, December 10, 2012 8:35:15 PM UTC-5, JimD wrote:

Every ride we talked about he had ridden and had only negative comments.  This fellow seemed deeply involved and experienced and pretty grumpy about it all. I've never really figured this out.

I too hear a lot of "death-march" recounting of randonneuring.  Rando is fun to think about it because there are those magic moments and the pure joy of just being out on the bike exploring and taking in the scenery - it's easy to fall in love with the idea.  but it's the rare person who gets by on this idealized notion, especially for the longer brevets.  the folks that do it and can extract the "fun" out tend to be the highly motivated, goal-setting, and self-competitive types that are driven by the challenge of it all.  it definitely suits certain personalities, especially those who draw their energy and sense of accomplishment and meaning from within (i.e., introverts).  in other words, "fun" isn't so much about the sunrises and the pretty spectacle of a stream of reflective gear and bicycle lights at night - it's the satisfaction of not quitting, overcoming something difficult, the lessons learned along the way, and most importantly, reaching a goal.  Being "deeply involved" and "grumpy" is understandable when you take into personality and psyche into account. 

likewise with respect to marathon/ultra-running, ironman distance triathlon, the Tour Divide, etc.  those events are technically races, but I see no real difference compared to the "non-competitive" sport of rando.  for the vast majority of people who do stuff like this, finishing is the primary goal and meeting a self-prescribed standard of performance (the "personal record" or "PR") amounts to winning - there's no real external motivator (most don't do it to finish first and win the prizes, get the attention, etc.), which again might be why more introverted folks gravitate towards and excel in these sports. 

[William]

Patrick, I think you are right that Randonneuring is suited for a particular set of personality traits (or disorders).  One trait that I think makes me well suited for Randonneuring is that I have a short memory for bad experiences and a long memory for good ones.  I think that's one of the reasons I'm suited for fatherhood.  You'd have to remind me about the dirty diapers, sleepless nights, nights in the hospital.  I've essentially forgotten the troubles, and remember the vast majority of the pleasures.  Looking back at it, my ongoing career as a father is a constant source of joy and optimism.  I've had many difficult moments on brevets as well, but I have to think hard to recall them.  I have no difficulty at all remembering a myriad of positive little details.  A saran-wrapped package of cubed cheese and sausage at the Valley Ford Market.  The borderline over-peppered and piping hot clam chowder at the Marshall Store on a rainy February dusk.  A fellow rando yelling "Go Bubba!" coming the other way on an out-and-back section.  The view looking North along the Pacific Coast from the Pt Reyes Lighthouse.  The long list of positives and my inability to recall the negatives makes me itch for my next event.  People who have a good memory for hardships probably would finish an event and say "that was stupid, never again".  I hear people say that about children as well.   

[Christian]

What William describes (One trait that I think makes me well suited for Randonneuring is that I have a short memory for bad experiences and a long memory for good ones) is called randonnesia--forgetting all the bad b/w rides.  It makes it possible for many of us.  

[RonaTD]

Lots of others have spoken eloquently about why the miles and the suffering. I can only say, "ditto." I love riding bicycles, and the more time I spend on a bicycle, the happier I am. Sure, there are points where you get tired and sore, so you rest for a bit and recover. It's amazing to me how your body can be screaming "QUIT" at you and, an hour later, feel perfectly fine. Normally I love riding at night, but I suffered miserably on the 600K this year between 8pm and about 8am. For the last 50k of the ride, though, I felt great. 

Often, when people who find I'm a cyclist, they ask, "Have you done RAGBRAI?" or "Have you done the Door County Century?" My standard answer is that I don't need an excuse to go for a long ride, and spending a week of nights in gyms with thousands of people and their sweaty lycra really doesn't appeal to me. I've been doing brevets to give me goals, like finishing a SR series this year, but I'm really happiest when I just do a ride because I want to do it. My first 600k was a one-way to a college reunion, and riding through the night was fantastic. If the weather had turned out crappy, I'd have driven. Not really committed or epic of me, but I prefer to enjoy the ride as much as possible. I have endless regard for those who completed the 2007 PBP (on a fixie!), but that's what makes me leery of signing up for an event like that. I know I'd have a great sense of accomplishment, but that's a lot of time, effort, and money to spend on being cold and wet for a few days straight. 

This year's goal is R12. The challenge is going to be getting a couple of 200K routes approved as permanents. Oh, and getting out there in January and February. Of course, I could also head somewhere warm and dry once a month...

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI  USA

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-12-11 at 18:36 -0800, RonaTD wrote:
> The challenge is going to be getting a couple of 200K routes approved
> as permanents.

That's the easy part. Crista Perminista is very helpful.

[Jan Heine]

Another thing to remember is that different bikes make the experience
very different. Obviously, those who only knew cruiser bikes when they
were children are surprised when any of us can ride 15 miles or more.
The differences between a truly great randonneur bike and a just
decent bike for a ramble of a few hours are more subtle, but still
very important.

In our testing of dozens of bikes for Bicycle Quarterly, there have
been some that would have made any brevet an arduous chore. Choosing
your equipment for performance means that the distances come much more
easily, and are much more fun. There is a difference between climbing
a long mountain pass on a bike that gets in sync with your pedal
stroke and riding a stiff, "dead" frame. Tires that have low
resistance and hum on the road give you a totally different riding
experience from sturdy, puncture-resistant tires with reinforced
sidewalls. I won't even mention geometry... Part of the reason we
obsess so much about our bikes when we aren't riding them is that
having the right bike, with the right fit, makes riding long distances
so much more enjoyable. As I wrote in the 10th anniversary issue of
Bicycle Quarterly, my ideal bike is the one that disappears and
becomes a true extension of my body.

Non-optimal bikes can be great fun to ride as well, but they naturally
tend to limit you to a shorter distance.

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
http://www.bikequarterly.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

[Lynne Fitz]

There's fun and there's fun.  Or, as my friend Einar puts it... type 2 fun.  That is where it is more fun afterward (finishing), than during.  And sometimes it is like that.  I can think of a few truly spectacular bonks that if I had not had a great riding partner, I'd have been done for.  I am still not fond of the 400k distance.  Maybe this year; I think I have the nutrition thing under control.  Still have to take many ditch naps; I don't do well at staying up all night.

But mostly they are actual fun during. :-)  There have been only a few rides where I spent extended time by myself.  The SIR 600k which Michael refers to was the longest one.  Rode with people on and off the first day, and, after Lake Crescent on day 2, only saw a rider or two in passing.  The last 45 miles of that route had serious type 2 fun sections - a seemingly endless string of walls.  But I finished, and in plenty of time, and that was SO COOL!

If I did not like it, I wouldn't be riding these rides so much.

Cheers,

Lynne F

[Michael]

@Jim and Steve:

 

Thanks for the tips and resource links.

I am in Ellicott City, MD area.

 

 

[Michael]

Base on Jan's post, it sounds like riding a light, fast tire on a Rando would be better than puncture protected heavier tires due to fasterness of tire and making the ride easier?

 

I wouldn't mind having to change a flat on a Rando as much as I would on a commute to work. So maybe I can get a light set for  longer ride, though Manny seems MAN-ny enough to do his long rides on the Marathon tires. 

[charlie]

To quote from a Grant podcast as best as I can recollect....."Ask yourself, would I ride these super long rides if I could not talk about them or brag in any way about them to anyone?" Finally, Jan has adapted to super long rides or he must be an alien....however I like his most recent bicycle and the writing of his travels is interesting.

[Mike]

On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 12:08:26 AM UTC-8, charlie wrote:

To quote from a Grant podcast as best as I can recollect....."Ask yourself, would I ride these super long rides if I could not talk about them or brag in any way about them to anyone?" 

I remember Grant had a blog post about that earlier this year. I sent him an email saying that while I frequently engaged in rides of 80+ miles a lot of this has to do with the fact that I don't drive. I live in Portland, OR and if I want to check out the view from Larch Mtn, see Multnomah Falls or get into the woods in the Mt Hood National Forest then I'm gonna ride out there and that means doing a long ride. I'm all for rambling around town or a leisurely ramble through Forest Park, but again, if I want the epic view from the top of Larch Mtn, then I gotta ride up there. It's erroneous to assume that the only reason people ride long distances is because it feels good when you stop or for bragging rights. Sure, two years ago I rode my Quickbeam all the way to the top of Larch Mtn and back on a hot day and I posted a link to the pictures of the ride here. But it's not bragging it's sharing experience. Yeah, I wanted to see what that was like and if I could do it, but it was also a quite pleasurable experience.

I've never done a road race, triathlon or participated in any kind of organized century or charity ride other than riding brevets. The idea of riding an organized century holds absolutely no appeal. Like Ted D. stated above "I love riding bicycles, and the more time I spend on a bicycle, the happier I am." What's so hard to understand about that? 

--mike

[Patrick in VT]

On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 3:08:26 AM UTC-5, charlie wrote:

To quote from a Grant podcast as best as I can recollect....."Ask yourself, would I ride these super long rides if I could not talk about them or brag in any way about them to anyone?"

The answer would be a resounding "yes" for the majority of people that do it, even if they asked themselves such a silly question.  Randonneuring isn't exactly the cool kids' sport and there's not much to brag about it.  Nobody really cares - it's eccentric as much or more so than it is impressive.  In any event, the prospect of bragging, or sharing a war story, is a ridiculously poor motivator when undertaking an extraordinary challenge, cycling or otherwise.  A facebook post or watercooler chat isn't really going to cut the cake given the time/energy/commitment/sacrifice/money/etc. that goes into working towards that goal for months/years at a time.  The skepticism underlying that quote seems a little misplaced and it's a little presumptuous to question people's motives for doing what they do.  Ride 20 miles or 200.  Climb Mt. Diablo or Mt. Everest.  Whatever makes people happy.  We need to spend more time doing what makes us happy -  maybe that's motivation enough ... it's certainly more incentive than bragging rights.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2012-12-12 at 06:09 -0800, Mike wrote:
> I remember Grant had a blog post about that earlier this year. I sent
> him an email saying that while I frequently engaged in rides of 80+
> miles a lot of this has to do with the fact that I don't drive. I live
> in Portland, OR and if I want to check out the view from Larch Mtn,
> see Multnomah Falls or get into the woods in the Mt Hood National
> Forest then I'm gonna ride out there and that means doing a long ride.
> I'm all for rambling around town or a leisurely ramble through Forest
> Park, but again, if I want the epic view from the top of Larch Mtn,
> then I gotta ride up there. It's erroneous to assume that the only
> reason people ride long distances is because it feels good when you
> stop or for bragging rights.

At a certain fitness level (in terms of both overall & training for
distance) rides in the 80-100 mile range are simply "ordinary rides,"
just as for many riders a 50 mile ride is nothing special, just an
ordinary ride. Bragging has nothing to do with it. Neither does
"feeling good when you stop." It feels good to ride; that's why we do
it.

[Peter Morgano]

I wish I had both the conditioning and the time to ride 50 miles at a clip. I can usually escape for 20 milers, though and it is refreshing to clear your head and just focus on the ride instead of all the other crap in your daily life so I can see doing more at a time one day.

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[Mike]

At a certain fitness level (in terms of both overall & training for 
distance) rides in the 80-100 mile range are simply "ordinary rides," 

Exactly. And I would add, I don't do any specific training for randonneuring. I don't do intervals. I don't have set training schedules where all my rides are planned out for the next couple of weeks building up for training rides. I simply "just ride", a little more frequently and little farther in anticipation of the upcoming brevet series.

--mike

[Jan Heine]

We calculated the speed difference between the fastest (Mitsuboshi
Trimline) and the slowest (Panaracer Nifty-Swifty) 650B tire for Paris-
Brest-Paris to be about 8-9 hours for a slower rider. Today, there are
even faster tires (and perhaps also slower ones - we didn't test the
Marathons) available, which makes the difference even greater.

Even if you have two flats, you'll be far ahead on the faster tire.
That said, if you go to wide tires, you don't need to fear flats any
longer. I commute on Grand Bois Hetres, ride randonneur brevets on
them, use them on gravel roads, etc., and I've had two flats in over
16,000 km (10,000 miles), both on very worn tires with very obvious
causes (long steel wire, sharp piece of freshly crushed rock on snow-
covered road).

[Esteban]

I'll echo everything Mike has written here.  I'll add something simple: ADVENTURE. 

Brevets are always an adventure.  There's always a tad of doubt and suffering.  Exploring is poking around the hills and stopping to make tea.  Adventure holds some risk, and its rewards are deeply internal - along with the fellowship of those who share the adventure.  

Even touring can be an adventure.  Adventure touring!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671211@N02/7585577892/in/set-72157630609991210

Esteban

San Diego, Calif.

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I don't think people need to be stuck in buckets in the sense that you
must have fun every time you get on a bike. (I believe) Grant's point
is not to label people and the reasons they get on bikes. The point
is, if you are not "just riding" because you believe you need to ride
"so far" or suffer "so much" in order to make the riding worthwhile,
then you should re-evaluate.

As someone else pointed out, getting out for a 5 minute spin with no
goals in mind is 100x better than saying I can't ride today because I
don't have the 2 hours to make it worthwhile. I agree with that 100%.

I do long distance cycling events to serve as goals/motivation and to
keep me in shape. I'm raising two kids and I don't the time to spend
hours and hours on my bike training for my long distance events. What
this means for me, is that if I want to do the long distance events,
then I have to take my 30 minute trainer rides (after my kids go to
sleep) and do intervals and suffer. I'm not going to be apologetic
about being an interval-doer. It fits my cycling needs and goals and
allows me to take leisurely rides with my family during the weekend.

To restate: I think the point is to not to over-analyze why you are
riding (there are many perfectly valid reasons to ride), but to
examine what the hurdles are that are keeping us from "just riding"
more often.

Best,
Toshi in Oakland, CA

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[Ryan Watson]

On Dec 12, 2012, at 11:35, Esteban <Prot...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'll echo everything Mike has written here. I'll add something simple: ADVENTURE.

Exactly!
Someone (on a brevet, I think) told me: "If you don't wish you were somewhere else at least once, it's not really an adventure".
More and more, though, for me that happens before I even start riding. I wish I were still in bed! I really don't understand why all brevets have to start in the wee hours of the morning.

Ryan

[Michael]

@Jan,

Thanks so much for the info!

On a brevet I'd definitely want the fastest tire so as not to add to the difficulty of the ride.  

Would make the ride much more enjoyable to breeze along rather than to spend the ride fighting against draggy tires.

[Michael]

Wait a second...8-9 hour time difference in PBP -  all things being equal except for the tires?

That is huge.

By the way, I am not hung up on speed or anything. I am not a racer. But I do believe that one shouldn't make the ride any  harder on themselves than it already is by adding unneccesary drag to the bike.