Schwalbe Super Motos -- anyone?

[PATRICK MOORE]

http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/off-road_tires/super_moto_430

I just came across these -- Big Apples minus the weight -- well, minus some of it. Since the BA rolls so well, I wonder how these, their anorexic cousin, will roll. Has anyone used them?

--

-------------------------
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-------------------------

[Montclair BobbyB]

They're really nice, but honestly... they're priced like car tires... and how long with they really last?   Between a pair of Super Motos, or a (durable) set of Bosco Bullmoose bars, I know where I'D rather spend my money.

Bobby (gimme cheap tires) Birmingham  

[davidfrench]

Like Bobby, I think Schwable is going too far price wise. This is the same amount of $ as for a good front motorcycle tyre...

[Philip Williamson]

I don't see why, aside from market, that a motorcycle tire SHOULD cost more than a bicycle tire. There's less material, but the purpose and construction is the same. In fact, margin on a bicycle tire might well be lower than a motorcycle tire. I have no firsthand knowledge, but I started thinking in those terms when I realized that a custom rack might have as many welds as a frame, on smaller, fussier tubes, but can only sell for 1/10 the price. 

That said, after riding the 60mm Big Apples and loving them, I could see splurging on these. I won't - I'd rather put my $$ towards more durable items, like a Jones 135mm front hub, or 1/3 of a Black Mountain 'cross frame, but a lightweight "competition" Big Apple is in the realm of worthwhile upgrades, to my mind. More so than $245 cassettes, at any rate. 

Philip

www.biketinker.com

[William]

"or 1/3 of a Black Mountain 'cross frame"

That's two Black Mountain drops in the last hour!  Mike Varley is taking over the world!  hee hee.  

Disclosure:  Mike Varley is currently building a 650B wheelset for me.  

[Dan Abelson]

I'll add a third black mountain drop. I received my monster cross frame a couple weeks ago. I can't wait to get it built up and put some miles on it.

Dan Abelson
St. Paul, MN

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/5CAsO11_b6UJ.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[Philip Williamson]

I'd be interested in seeing and hearing about that monstercross build. Especially if you buy the tires under discussion (or the Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Roads). 

Philip

www.biketinker.com

[Dan Abelson]

I am planning on taking using the 700 x 40 clement xplor mso tires. I will post details of the build when it is done, I still have some details to sort out.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/0i34moYUo_kJ.

[Michael]

I think alot of stuff related to bikes is overpriced.

 

From the bikes to the components. The manufacturers and sellers will tell you why the things are so expensive, and how the market, shipping, rarity, materials, etc. all add up to the price, but I just have a hard time believeing that some components and bikes really need to be so expensive.

[Tom Harrop]

Patrick,

I considered these tyres (without noticing the price) but in the end I decided a puncture belt was a good thing for commuting/transport so I chose big apples. I suspect super motos would be nice for rides where you don't mind stopping to change a flat. I'd be interested to hear how they compare to BAs, so I think it's your duty to buy a pair and report...

How much do they cost in the US? Here in DE they're about 35€ whereas BAs in the same size can be had for 20–25€, so it's a 20€ premium for a pair.

[Philip Williamson]

Here in the U.S., they cost $100, or ~ 76€, which is why we're all aghast. Since I'm not even interested in paying $50 for a tire, they're not that much more shocking than $65 tires to me. 

Philip

www.biketinker.com

[Tom Harrop]

Wow, OK. $100 per tyre? That is extreme, and I take back what I (jokingly) said about Patrick's obligation to test!

I'm a bit surprised too. I see Riv has BAs for $47 which is less than a 40 % markup from the DE online-retail price, whereas $100 for Super Motos is more than a 100 % markup. Going OT here, but in Australia we're accustomed to paying 2–3 times US/EU prices if we buy locally—not just on bike parts. I didn't think that was the case in the US.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

According to the Schwalbe website, the MSRP per tire for the Super Moto is $84-94, not quite $100. I'm sure some online places will have it cheaper. There are plenty of $15 tires out there, and everything in between.

As for the price of bike stuff in general, part of the "problem" is guys like me and the nice people at Riv trying to make a living by selling bike parts. The published retail price for this kind of thing generally includes a 30-50% margin for the retailer. But, at least in my case, I don't buy directly from manufacturers, but from distributors, who also get a cut. I don't believe there's tons of fat in the structure, because everybody in the chain adds something that is of value to the end user, even if it's not obvious.

Anyway, It's sort of funny to be discussing the high price of $85 tires on a forum that's primarily concerned with $1000-3000 framesets, $300 saddlebags, and other boutique items.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2013-01-23 at 14:01 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
>
> Anyway, It's sort of funny to be discussing the high price of $85
> tires on a forum that's primarily concerned with $1000-3000 framesets,
> $300 saddlebags, and other boutique items.

If tires lasted as long as framesets or Berthoud and Carradice bags,
nobody would think twice about an $85 tire. But they don't. They're a
consumable, but it feels as though they're starting to price them like a
capital investment.

[Shaun Meehan]

As part of my job, I quote the cost of manufactured parts (injection molded thermoplastic parts/assemblies) to OEM's. I think Philip is correct in that the materials often times make-up a pretty small portion of the price of a manufactured part. When a company is purchasing elastomer resin, adhesive, Kevlar fabric, etc. in the quantities that Schwalbe and Dunlop do, they're getting a really good price on the materials. My guess is that if the manufacturing process and labor is similar between a motorcycle and a bicycle tire, the cost to the manufacturer for producing them probably isn't drastically different.

 

I've been very satisfied with every Schwalbe tire I've tried and I've tried some cheapies that were crap. I can't think of a tire that's even come close to lasting as long as the Marathon Supremes that I have on my Long Haul Trucker. So yeah, $85 is relatively pricey for a tire; but if I were interested in the Super Motos, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a pair.

 

Shaun Meehan

 

 

 

 

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Sure, tires wear out over time, while other items are less consumable, but that's kinda beside the point. For the added cost of a $2000 Riv frameset, compared to, say, a $500 Surly, you're not buying extra durability. You're buying swankiness and style and maybe some preferable ride quality characteristics, and maybe that's all worth something to you, but you're not getting extra durability, and certainly not 4x the durability. If durability/dollar was your only criterion, nobody would buy a Riv. Personally, I think good tires are among the best investments one can make on a bike. And as I mentioned before, there are plenty of less costly options. Basic Big Apples are $34.

[Peter Morgano]

Man I used to pay 100ish a tire for my car, granted they were cheap tires but they still lasted 20k miles. I doubt the same could be said for these tires.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

If only you could buy a tire that weighed 30-40 lbs for your bicycle, it would probably last 20,000 miles easy. But people don't pay extra for mileage in bike tires like they do with car tires. Bike people are impossible to please with regard to tires: lightweight, smooth rolling, indestructible, flat-proof, never loses air, tan sidewall, and, by the way, cheap!

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2013-01-23 at 14:51 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
> Sure, tires wear out over time, while other items are less consumable,
> but that's kinda beside the point. For the added cost of a $2000 Riv
> frameset, compared to, say, a $500 Surly, you're not buying extra
> durability. You're buying swankiness and style and maybe some
> preferable ride quality characteristics, and maybe that's all worth
> something to you, but you're not getting extra durability, and
> certainly not 4x the durability.

No, but you are getting a lifespan that's long enough to let you
amortize over decades.

> If durability/dollar was your only criterion, nobody would buy a Riv.

No, but do remember, Riv specifically markets their bikes as bikes you
can ride for 20 years. They're calling for you to take the long view.

> Personally, I think good tires are among the best investments one can
> make on a bike. And as I mentioned before, there are plenty of less
> costly options. Basic Big Apples are $34.

I agree. And don't forget, the price of tires has gone up a lot in the
past 2-3 years. 23mm race tires that used to for around $40 are now
approaching $70. So a $95 high end tire isn't particularly shocking,
as /all/ high end tires are hovering around the $100 mark. I also fully
agree that you get your money's worth with high end tires. Except for
winter use, that's all I use.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I've been in the bike business since 2005. The price of everything has gone up significantly since then. Brooks saddle prices have more than doubled. Riv's frames are up 50% (based on my 2004 Atlantis that was $1300, now $2000). Schwalbe tires in any given model have been one of the more price-stable items, though they've since introduced the pricier models that don't have 2005-era equivalents.

[Peter Morgano]

I Jim's defense if they came in cream I would give em a maybe vote. But it seems like everything but my pay has gone up a good bit.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Yep, I'd pay a Creme premium, too. Cremium.

[Eric Platt]

Could wish that they had the Liteskin sidewalls.  My wife could definitely feel a difference when I replaced her regular Big Apples with the Liteskin version.  But will admit to being a bit baffled why they are twice the price of a similar Big Apple.  (Both seem to have the new tread pattern).

 

Will admit to a bias here, though, all my bikes have Schwalbe tires. 

 

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thil...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yep, I'd pay a Creme premium, too. Cremium.

[Mike Schiller]

 another new Schwalbe tire that appeals to me more  is the Big Ben, like a Big Apple but with a little bit of tread depth and in a 700x55. 

A lot cheaper too.

~mike

[davidfrench]

With the new Surly Krampus (29+) with Rabbit Hole rims (50mm large) and Knrad tires (29x3) I thought the new tire coming from Schwable would be a Big Apple in 80c

That would be awesome!

:-)

PS: Schwable: make it black, white and brown please!

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I tried the Black Floyd tires on my Pugsley, and I'm not convinced smooth super-fat tires are a great idea. The tread of the Black Floyd is similar to that of a Schwalbe Fat Frank, but of course it's considerably fatter at 26x3.8". Straight line riding seemed pretty fast, but cornering was exciting and took some getting used to. That huge contact patch serves as a lever against the pavement, pulling the bike harder into turns than one would like. The knobby 3.8" Knards that I installed recently feel much better in corners and roll great on the pavement at 10 psi.

[Garth]

Check out Kenda Kwik tires .  I've used the no longer made Kwik Roller EZ Ride in a 700x45 for a couple of years now.  They have a long wearing compound and ride great on the Bombadil :)   I see Amazon sells the similar but a little heavier Kwik Bitumen tire of theirs for $22. 

http://www.kendausa.com/en/home/bicycle/kwick-series.aspx
http://www.amazon.com/Kenda-Kwick-Bitumen-Commuter-Black/dp/B0081EOIQE