Rando Advice

[Smitty-A-Go-Go]

I'm thinking of riding in a 100k populaire in a couple weeks. I know it's not a tremendous distance but it'll be my first rando event and my longest ride ever. 

I plan to do it on my Hilsen... I've got the necessary reflectors, lights (battery), fenders, and a small sackville saddle bag + front trunk sack to carry stuff. 

I've got 40mm Marathon Supremes on there now. I imagine I'd be the only one with 40mm tires. Not that that's a deal breaker but I've been contemplating getting a set of faster tires and this seems like as good a reason as any to make a purchase. What sort of tires do people normally ride on such an event? I love all the Schwalbes I've had and am tempted to get Kojaks out of brand loyalty. I was also eyeing the 32mm Grand Bois Cypress on Jan's site. As far as I can tell Jan is the rando guy and I can't imagine he'd sell crappy tires. 

What sort of foods do people eat? I'd rather avoid things in the power goo and protein pudding food group. I went for a ride with some roadie types a few weeks ago and brought dates as my snack. I was keeping up ok before I ate the dates but the dates sat heavy in my belly and I became a slug.

How extensive of a tool kit do people generally bring on a ride like this? I generally carry more tools than I've ever really needed on the road. Flats are really my only stop-me-in-my-tracks roadside repair I've had to deal with. I'm tempted to minimize the tool kit but don't want to go too small.   

I realize the ride is short enough that I could probably get by doing business as usual and get through it but thought I'd solicit advice from those who have gone before. Perhaps I could appear more sophisticated than I really am. Any thoughts or advice... food, tire, tool, or otherwise... would be appreciated.

Oh yeah, FWIW... the ride is the OR Randonneurs Brewpub Popularie

Thanks, Smitty

 

 

[Horace]

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Smitty-A-Go-Go <54c...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

What sort of foods do people eat?

Whatever food you want to eat is okay, but do NOT eat something new.

[NickBull]

Since randonneuring is unsupported, long-distance bike riding, it is appropriate to show up with whatever you would normally take on a long solo bike ride.  That way, if you run into trouble, you don't have to slow someone else down to help you.  Just take what you'd normally take and wear what you'd normally wear and eat what you'd normally eat on a long ride.  No guarantees of course, but chances are you'll find someone who rides at a compatible pace who you can chat with to help the miles go by.  In my experience, randonneurs are welcoming and helpful to newcomers.  And there are all sorts of different "styles" of randonneuring bikes, some people ride carbon-fiber racing bikes with narrow tires while others ride metal bikes, some with narrow tires, some with wide.  I've been riding on 650Bx42 Hetres for the last little while.  The Grand Bois 700x32's are a very nice, fast tire, but possibly slightly more flat-prone than something like your Marathon Supremes, though I've gotten flats with both.  I'd much prefer to ride on a fast tire and fix the occasional flat than to ride on a sluggish tire that is "flat proof".  But based on your comments, it seems like you really don't like handling flats, so then that would gravitate toward using a "flat proof" tire.

Nick

[Lee Chae]

Hi Smitty. Congrats on your decision for a new adventure. I have a few cents to offer:

- The switch from 40mm to 32mm tires will change how your bike handles, imo. The difference may not be a big issue for you, but I'd be hesitant to make big changes before going on my longest ride ever. I think if you are comfortable on your Supremes, you should go with them. The Kojak slicks and Cypres may give you a little boost in perceived effort/speed. If that's really important to you, I'd get them now and try them out over the next couple of weeks.

- Similarly, I think good advice on the food issue is go with what you know. One approach is to see if there are places along the route (ideally the controls), where you can purchase snacks. If so, I'd pack enough food for a couple legs of the route. Then, just eat stuff from the controls (if they appear to be places that sell food you like). For instance, on rides of that distance, I usually pack a sandwich and a sandwich bag of munchies (fig bars, etc.). I usually buy a lunch at one point during the ride, and if I feel like I need a break or boost on the back half of the ride, I'll stop for chips and a Coke/V8/Gatorade, whatever. I usually snack on the munchies as I ride. The home-made sandwich is my back-up. I'm sure this will be a good learning experience in terms of figuring out what works for you fuel-wise. Overall, I say just have a plan in place in terms of knowing if and where you can get food along the route, and filling in your between-stop and emergency needs by packing a few things in your bag.

- My tool kit is the same one I take for any ride or commute. I have it pared down to the essentials for fixing flats (tire levers, patch kit, spare tube) and making adjustments to saddle and handlebar position and brakes (wrenches). I also carry a chain tool and spare links, a tire boot (square of material I snipped from a FedEx envelope), lab gloves, and some zip ties. I don't carry extra shifter/brake cables, chain ring bolts, or brake pads, but I know folks who do. Depending on the length and anticipated light conditions, I'll take a set of back-up batteries for my tail light (I have a generator front light). My back-up front light is a headlamp, which I only bring when I really think it may come into play (e.g. really crappy weather). In other words, I plan my tool kit around needs that I've experienced as opposed to all anticipated repairs. (If I ever go on an extended bike camping trip, I will probably do the latter.)

- A couple of things I also pack is a small bag of electrolyte pills (Endurolytes), and I have two packs of goo I shove in a small pocket on my bag. The goo, which I hate, is for real emergencies (mine or others). I've known people who have suffered real bonks and it made me think it would be a good thing to have something just in case... As for the electrolytes, I sometimes get thigh cramps on long rides on hot days, and I find these help me out. They also help settle my stomach if it starts getting upset over the combination of constant riding and eating that usually go hand-in-hand on these rides.

I hope you enjoy it, and don't forget to post a ride report!

Lee
SF, CA

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Smitty-A-Go-Go <54c...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

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[William]

Nick's advice is very accurate on all points.  I'll add to it that you absolutely don't need to buy "faster" tires for a 100k.  I'm the last person to talk you out of buying new rubber just because you want to, though :).  That's one of the funnest aspects of owning a bike that takes several kinds of tires!  But you won't need to.  It's only for truly long brevets, like the 400 and beyond, that I think you should think about milking a little more efficiency out of your bike, because that time saved can mean sleep time in the bank.  The other thing to consider is that the veteran randos that attend the Populaire treat it like a social gathering.  It's really a medium distance training ride for a lot of them.  They'll bring their spouses or children.  Some will ride a more leisurely bike than they would for a brevet.  I'm planning on riding my Bombadil for the SFR Populaire later this month, and I'll pack a full on picnic.  

Without question THE best part of randonneuring is the people.  Be yourself, relax and do what you are comfortable doing.  The camaraderie and supporting atmosphere you'll find at every speed echelon will be the thing that has you planning out your first 200 (and beyond).  

[cyclot...@gmail.com]

Hi Smitty, I don't ride brevets, but I do ride 100K solo rides
whenever I can. They're my favorite length. Not so long that they're a
time-sink, but long enough to really feel like you're accomplishing
something.

IMHO, the Marathon Supremes will be fine. If you're itchin' to get
some new tires, then any of those you mentioned are good. Also
consider Jack Browns Greens.

Food is anything that works for you. I usually have a combo of Clif
Bars and paninis that I eat. YMMV

I carry the same tool kit for all my rides: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/4315416462/
Pretty minimalist by some people's standards :-)

Have fun, it'll be a great time!

> >> Oh yeah, FWIW... the ride is the OR Randonneurs Brewpub Popularie<http://www.orrandonneurs.org/rba/2012/Brewpub/Brewpub_Info.html>
>
> >> Thanks, Smitty

[Smitty-A-Go-Go]

This is all very comforting. Not that I was anxiety stricken but I was definitley feeling a little cautious stepping into a new world. The distance isn't intimidating but the timed aspect has me a little concerned. Will ride the bike I have and report back with pics how it goes. 

Thanks for the replies.

--Smitty

[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 6, 12:09 pm, Smitty-A-Go-Go <54ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm thinking of riding in a 100k populaire in a couple weeks. I know it's
> not a tremendous distance but it'll be my first rando event and my longest
> ride ever.

cool!

> I plan to do it on my Hilsen... I've got the necessary reflectors, lights
> (battery), fenders, and a small sackville saddle bag + front trunk sack to
> carry stuff.

consider only carrying 1 bag unless the weather is such that you need
to carry extra layers. avoid the urge to overpack.

> I've got 40mm Marathon Supremes on there now. I imagine I'd be the only one
> with 40mm tires. Not that that's a deal breaker but I've been contemplating
> getting a set of faster tires and this seems like as good a reason as any
> to make a purchase. What sort of tires do people normally ride on such an
> event? I love all the Schwalbes I've had and am tempted to get Kojaks out
> of brand loyalty. I was also eyeing the 32mm Grand Bois Cypress on Jan's
> site. As far as I can tell Jan is the rando guy and I can't imagine he'd
> sell crappy tires.

you're call, but sporty tires are nice to have around, if only for
special events like this.

> What sort of foods do people eat? I'd rather avoid things in the power goo
> and protein pudding food group. I went for a ride with some roadie types a
> few weeks ago and brought dates as my snack. I was keeping up ok before I
> ate the dates but the dates sat heavy in my belly and I became a slug.

stuff that digests quickly and is relatively "light" - i usually reach
for apple sauce, cereals, clif/lara bars, fruit, nuts, pb&j etc.
mostly carbs. a shot of espresso is nice. remember that when you eat
is as important as what you eat. do not carbo load the night before
and do not eat a huge breakfast.

> How extensive of a tool kit do people generally bring on a ride like this?
> I generally carry more tools than I've ever really needed on the road.
> Flats are really my only stop-me-in-my-tracks roadside repair I've had to
> deal with. I'm tempted to minimize the tool kit but don't want to go too
> small.

a tube/patch-kit, multi-tool and spoke wrench. do a good pre-ride
maintenance check and you'll be set.

> I realize the ride is short enough that I could probably get by doing
> business as usual and get through it but thought I'd solicit advice from
> those who have gone before. Perhaps I could appear more sophisticated than
> I really am. Any thoughts or advice... food, tire, tool, or otherwise... would
> be appreciated.

it's your longest ride, but remember that it's just another ride - the
extra miles aren't going to magically cause you or bike to
catastrophically fail. ride within yourself and you'll be fine. have
fun!!

[RonLau]

Smitty,

You will be fine, go enjoy the ride. My suggestions...

1. Food: don't eat something you don't normally eat during a ride. I
like boiled eggs myself but I don't eat anything spicy during the
ride.
2. Speed: this is not a race, do at a pace you are comfortable with
for that distance. I know this is harder since you have not done this
distance before, but there is always the first time.
3. Time at control: if you want to be fast overall, it is good idea
not to hang around for too long. Besides hanging there for 30
minutes, you will get cold and takes a few miles to get warm up
again. It is more important for longer distance.
4. Bring the right tools: I always bring a patch kit with me, only use
it once but it saves that ride for me.
5. For me: when I get pass the "what the xxxx am I doing here?"
moment, it is much easier and end up being more fun and faster.

Just my 2 cents.

Ron

> > Oh yeah, FWIW... the ride is the OR Randonneurs Brewpub Popularie<http://www.orrandonneurs.org/rba/2012/Brewpub/Brewpub_Info.html>
>
> > Thanks, Smitty

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-03-06 at 12:21 -0800, Smitty-A-Go-Go wrote:
> This is all very comforting. Not that I was anxiety stricken but I was
> definitley feeling a little cautious stepping into a new world. The
> distance isn't intimidating but the timed aspect has me a little
> concerned. Will ride the bike I have and report back with pics how it
> goes.

The time aspect does add a bit of pressure, but you really don't have to
maintain a very fast overall average (just under 10 mph). And you
absolutely positively do have to remember to get your control card
signed at the controls, and at the end you have to sign the card. Don't
lose the card!

You need to keep in mind the things you need to accomplish at the
controls. Take care of those things in an efficient manner and you
won't end up wasting a lot of time at the controls. Just remember that
the clock is always ticking, and try to get some cushion built up early
so that in case you get a flat or have a mechanical you don't fall
behind and end up feeling a huge amount of pressure.

Beyond that, 100km isn't a very long distance. It's a good opportunity
to experience the "conforming with the rules" aspect of randonneuring
(except for those related to night riding) without the additional
challenge of really longer than normal distances. Think of it as a
"dress rehearsal".

You might find this summary of interest:
http://www.dcrand.org/dcr/randoinfo.php?page=about-randonneuring

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-03-06 at 09:09 -0800, Smitty-A-Go-Go wrote:

> I've got 40mm Marathon Supremes on there now. I imagine I'd be the
> only one with 40mm tires.

Maybe or maybe not. There are several folks in DC Randonneurs on 42mm
Hetres. But chances are you'll see everything from 21 or 23mm on up.

> Not that that's a deal breaker but I've been contemplating getting a
> set of faster tires and this seems like as good a reason as any to
> make a purchase. What sort of tires do people normally ride on such an
> event? I love all the Schwalbes I've had and am tempted to get Kojaks
> out of brand loyalty. I was also eyeing the 32mm Grand Bois Cypress on
> Jan's site. As far as I can tell Jan is the rando guy and I can't
> imagine he'd sell crappy tires.

Grand Bois tires are excellent. I have the 700Cx32mm Cypress on my Velo
Orange. They're definitely in the "unarmored" camp, though. Kojaks get
a lot of love on the lists. I have them on my Alex Moulton and like
them a lot. But unless you get something absolutely horrible (something
you could ride over an IED and not get a flat) it probably won't make
any difference in terms of "success" or "failure" although the thing
about high quality fast, supple tires like the Cypres is how nice they
ride.

> What sort of foods do people eat? I'd rather avoid things in the power
> goo and protein pudding food group.

It always tickles me that the really fast people in DC Randonneurs make
use of the time savings they build up to have big fancy lunches in
restaurants. Although, I'm sure there are some eating slime from a
tube.

> I went for a ride with some roadie types a few weeks ago and brought
> dates as my snack. I was keeping up ok before I ate the dates but the
> dates sat heavy in my belly and I became a slug.

One more vote for going with what you're used to. You'll have enough
novelty with the additional distance and THE RULES, you don't need to
spin the roulette wheel on possible gastric disturbance. Trust me, that
can really ruin your day no matter how it manifests itself. I still
remember the way the vegetable soup at the first rest stop on the
Civista Century 2 years ago repeated on me all the way down to the 75
mile rest stop, and trust me, diarrhea will not only lose you great gobs
of time but also will make your ride truly memorable in a not good way.
I know this for a fact.

> How extensive of a tool kit do people generally bring on a ride like
> this? I generally carry more tools than I've ever really needed on the
> road. Flats are really my only stop-me-in-my-tracks roadside repair
> I've had to deal with. I'm tempted to minimize the tool kit but don't
> want to go too small.

At some point you could experiment with carrying fewer tools than you do
now but this probably isn't the time for that. You have enough novelty
going on as it is, no need to throw anxiety about breaking down and not
having the tools with you on top of that. But definitely leave the
welding torch, the sledge hammer and the 12" crescent wrench at home.

> I realize the ride is short enough that I could probably get by doing
> business as usual and get through it

Hold on to that thought.

[NickBull]

By the way, there have been several comments that might imply that a populaire is going to be easy because it is a "short" distance.  I have a good friend whose saying is "No ride is as easy as it seems."  Count on it being tougher than you expect, and then if it isn't you'll be pleasantly surprised.

A few years ago, I organized a 200Km (Urbana, MD) and needed something to do while waiting for the first riders to come in, so I set up a 100Km to ride along with my volunteers and we all had a great time riding it and racing each other back to the start.  The next year, I had the bright idea that it would be good to turn that 100Km into the MarLuLu Populaire to "bring new riders into the sport."  Only problem ... it climbed over MarLu Ridge (with some extended 15 percent grades) then over Gathland (a fairly big and steep climb) out to the Antietam Battlefield, then it turned around and went back over those climbs for a total of about 5660 feet of climbing in 65 miles.  There were complaints.  It's a great ride for experienced and well-trained randonneurs, but just too tough for newcomers, particularly since it took place in early March before anyone who isn't a randonneur was likely to have any miles in their legs in this area.

Nick

[rcnute]

Are there populaires where cards are used? I haven't seen them on the
SIR ones.

Smitty, you'll be fine. Don't overcook it too early, don't be a hero
on the climbs, eat a bit of something every 25 miles and you're all
set.

Ryan

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-03-06 at 15:10 -0800, rcnute wrote:
> Are there populaires where cards are used? I haven't seen them on the
> SIR ones.

The RUSA rules don't seem to say anything on the subject. I assumed
they did. However, I googled around a bit and found this:

"What is a Populaire? - A Populaire is a brevet-format ride shorter than
200km (100km-199km), run under the same rules and using the same kind of
control cards as brevets."
--http://www.rmccrides.com/brevets.htm (Rocky Mountain Cycling Club)
so obviously /some/ groups do it the way I assumed.

I've never been on one myself. I belong to DC Randonneurs and did not
participate in the "Darwinian" Populaire Nick described; and these days
the only other Populaires DC Rand has hosted have been in January. Now
I don't know about you, but *I* am not up for 100km rides in January.

[NickBull]

I'm pretty sure that all RUSA-sanctioned populaires are required to use cards.  Part of the point of populaires is to get new riders used to the complexities of randonneuring, one aspect of which is carrying a card.

RUSA's web page has a glossary that says:

populaire   (pope u lair) - A shorter "randonneuring" event usually run under the regulations and pace of a standard brevet, but being less than 200 kilometers in length, they lack the official sanction of the Audax Club Parisien. Populaires are often 100 or 150 kilometers in length and frequently used by experienced randonneurs for training and/or socializing, as well as introducing new riders to the ways of "randonneuring".

Nick

[PATRICK MOORE]

I'd very much like to hear about your experience, Smitty. I too am
thinking of increasing my distances -- God forbid, but maybe I will
even get around this year to entering the Santa Fe Century that I've
been meaning but never quite getting around to ride for the last 20+
years. The longest ride I've done in the last 12 months was about 35
miles, tho' this was on a fixed gear; the longest I've done since high
school (some 40 years ago) is an organized 50 miler, back in 2004,
also on the fixie.

Anyway, I'd like to hear how another distance-neophyte finds his first
60 mile ride: what was uncomfortable, what helped you through, what
you would change, what you will keep.

As for tires, I can heartily recommend the Kojaks: have the roughly
35s in both the 700C and 559 sizes and, while I've not ridden Grand
Bois tires, I have to say that, as lovely as the Kojaks are, I don't,
personally, have much motivation to explore other options. (I'd be
happy to be corrected here, btw.)

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--
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Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

[PATRICK MOORE]

Patrick: why is this so? Again, just asking, not contradicting. One
reads everywhere that "carbo loading" the night before is the way to
go and, of course, breakfast is said to be the most important meal.

Can you explain in more detail why you counsel against "carbo loading"
and a big breakfast?

Thanks.

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Patrick in VT <swin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 6, 12:09 pm, Smitty-A-Go-Go <54ca...@gmail.com> wrote:

> do not carbo load the night before and do not eat a huge breakfast.

--

[RonLau]

Come and think of it, it is a good idea to bring a small plastic bag
for your card (SFR card is 4 x 5.5 inches)because no one like a wet
card that has been sitting in your back for a few hours.

On Mar 6, 4:31 pm, NickBull <nick.bike.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm pretty sure that all RUSA-sanctioned populaires are required to use
> cards.  Part of the point of populaires is to get new riders used to the
> complexities of randonneuring, one aspect of which is carrying a card.
>
> RUSA's web page has a glossary that says:
>

> *populaire*   (pope u lair) - A shorter "randonneuring" event usually run
> under the regulations and pace of a standard *brevet*, but being less than

> 200 kilometers in length, they lack the official sanction of the Audax Club

> Parisien. *Populaires* are often 100 or 150 kilometers in length and
> frequently used by experienced *randonneurs* for training and/or

[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 6, 8:12 pm, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Patrick: why is this so? Again, just asking, not contradicting. One
> reads everywhere that "carbo loading" the night before is the way to
> go and, of course, breakfast is said to be the most important meal.
>
> Can you explain in more detail why you counsel against "carbo loading"
> and a big breakfast?

sure. the old-school theory/method was actually to deplete energy
stores with heavy exercise and low-carb diet, then tuck into a high
carb diet with large meals the day or two before an event - this was
thought to encourage/maximize energy storage. but the depletion phase
was hard, especially with the extra training, and big meals don't
always sit well, especially right before an race/event. tinkering
with diet generally isn't a good thing when you want to feel your
best. so, this has become a pretty outdated approach.

best practice now is to taper training during the week leading up to
the event and keep a normal diet - just change the composition of the
diet to bring in more carbs 2-4 days before the event. no extra
calories are needed. I find that small meals throughout the day in the
days leading up to an event is a nice strategy to make sure i'm
getting enough of what i need. after tapering, i've also had good luck
with doing a very short, very intense workout (these are called
"openers") the day before a race/event followed by enough carbs to
refuel/recover.

i usually take breakfast 3 hours before an event - again, normal size,
but carb-centric. and i might top-off with a bit apple sauce or
something an hour before start. doesn't do the body any good to have
a huge meal before setting out for a big effort.

finally, everybody should have a hydration mantra or whatever it takes
to be hydrated before any endurance event. it is very important.

[rcnute]

As I thought about it on the ride home now I remember using a card on
a populaire--I got to the end and was so excited about the beer that I
forgot to get my card stamped, adding twenty minutes to my already
unremarkable time.

Additional advice: Remember card and remember beer, in that order.

Ryan

On Mar 6, 4:31 pm, NickBull <nick.bike.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm pretty sure that all RUSA-sanctioned populaires are required to use
> cards.  Part of the point of populaires is to get new riders used to the
> complexities of randonneuring, one aspect of which is carrying a card.
>
> RUSA's web page has a glossary that says:
>

> *populaire*   (pope u lair) - A shorter "randonneuring" event usually run
> under the regulations and pace of a standard *brevet*, but being less than

> 200 kilometers in length, they lack the official sanction of the Audax Club

> Parisien. *Populaires* are often 100 or 150 kilometers in length and
> frequently used by experienced *randonneurs* for training and/or

[jimD]

I've got a saying, '60 miles is about right for a bike ride'.
I usually make this observation when riding centuries.
-JimD

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-03-06 at 18:51 -0800, jimD wrote:
> I've got a saying, '60 miles is about right for a bike ride'.
> I usually make this observation when riding centuries.

Let me amend that: 60 miles is about right for an ordinary, everyday
weekend ride. Do one every weekend day, and riding a century will be a
walk in the park.

[Brian Hanson]

I've now done a couple of SIR populaires (November and January) and plan to up that a bit with at least a 200k this year.  I may try to get down to the brewpub populair in OR, so I may see you there on my Hilsen, Smitty.  Here's my experience so far.

Ride 1: This was cold, but I felt good and had enough food/water/coffee in my system through dumb luck to make it to the end feeling strong.  I rode my AHH with Cypres tires and used my Acorn bags front and back.  I had food and incidentals in the rando front bag, and some spare clothes and tools in the back.

Ride 2: Same setup bike-wise.  I hooked up with a ride partner early into the ride and we talked on and on.  I realized I hadn't been eating or drinking at the half-way mark, and quickly ate a couple power bars.  This got me to about 55 miles where I entirely bonked and dragged myself over the last 2-3 hills to the finish with zero energy in my legs.  Chalked this one up to "not paying attention", and maybe missing my morning coffee :)

As for food, I've not carbo-loaded, but I found that using electrolyte drink or food in a bottle (perpetuem) helped me feel strong for a recent 33 miler.  I had better luck when I was conscious about regularly eating/drinking, and I think this is key.  Everyone is different...

Brian

Seattle, WA

[Esteban]

Lots of good advice here. I'm just stoked for you, 'cause its likely to start you into something really fun.  So far this year,  I've ridden a 200K in the pouring rain and felt great, and rode an "easy" 300K (relative to the climbing I've don on other 300Ks) and suffered and cursed myself for ever buying a bicycle.  Every randonee has its different narrative moments - and for every one I've ever done (including Populaires), I've had that moment filled with doubt. Its part of the payoff of a randonnee: you learn from each one.  The good, the bad, the DNFs, the really good days.  But best of all, as others have mentioned, you have people around you who are really supportive.  

Enjoy!

Esteban

San Diego, Calif.

On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:09:17 AM UTC-8, Smitty-A-Go-Go wrote:

[Steve D.]

Good for you, Smitty! This sounds very exciting. It's making think I
should not feel so self-conscious about doing a Populaire on my
Atlantis with SIR; been wanting to it for the last couple of years.
Although last year I did a few 40, 50, 60, and 85 mile rides on my own
last spring/summer on my own, and enjoyed them very much, the timed/
brevet card and comradery aspects of randonneuring really peak my
interest.

I look forward to reading your next post, and hope you have pictures
to share.

Cheers,
Steve DeMont
Seattle

[RonLau]

Since we are talking Populaire, I would like to point out San
Francisco Randonneurs is hosting a 115K on March 31, Saturday.

http://sfrandonneurs.org/registration.htm#

Cost is $5 and you get food at the end.

Below is the link from last October. You will see the distance and
climbs.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/118395913

Has been turning into a social event for some of us and hope you can
join us.
Most of SF local will go and it is a good time to learn about distance
riding.

Thanks,
Ron

[Kevin Brightbill]

-40's will be fine, tire-wise, I rode most of the OR Rando schedule
last year on 38mm Panaracers.

-No need for lights at all, start point is 8am and cutoff for finish
is 2:40pm

-Should be wet -- spare socks and gloves would be nice to have packed
(plus plastic bags for storing your dirty ones).

-Tools -- spare tube, patch kit, multiool with allen and screwdriver
heads

-Food, I've found, is entirely personal. I've phased out most Clif/
Power/etc bars -- in favor of turkey and avocado sandwiches, PB&J's,
trail mix, bananas, et cetera. I'm also a big fan of Coke or Dr Pepper
in one of my water bottles, but not really for a 100K.

Anyway, Smitty, I'll see you out on the 17th! I'll be on either a
purple GT or a purple Olmo.

[CycloFiend]

on 3/6/12 9:09 AM, Smitty-A-Go-Go at 54c...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm thinking of riding in a 100k populaire in a couple weeks. I know it's not a tremendous distance but it'll be my first rando event and my longest ride ever.

I plan to do it on my Hilsen... I've got the necessary reflectors, lights (battery), fenders, and a small sackville saddle bag + front trunk sack to carry stuff.

I've got 40mm Marathon Supremes on there now. I imagine I'd be the only one with 40mm tires. Not that that's a deal breaker but I've been contemplating getting a set of faster tires and this seems like as good a reason as any to make a purchase. What sort of tires do people normally ride on such an event? I love all the Schwalbes I've had and am tempted to get Kojaks out of brand loyalty. I was also eyeing the 32mm Grand Bois Cypress on Jan's site. As far as I can tell Jan is the rando guy and I can't imagine he'd sell crappy tires.

What sort of foods do people eat? I'd rather avoid things in the power goo and protein pudding food group. I went for a ride with some roadie types a few weeks ago and brought dates as my snack. I was keeping up ok before I ate the dates but the dates sat heavy in my belly and I became a slug.

How extensive of a tool kit do people generally bring on a ride like this? I generally carry more tools than I've ever really needed on the road. Flats are really my only stop-me-in-my-tracks roadside repair I've had to deal with. I'm tempted to minimize the tool kit but don't want to go too small.   

I realize the ride is short enough that I could probably get by doing business as usual and get through it but thought I'd solicit advice from those who have gone before. Perhaps I could appear more sophisticated than I really am. Any thoughts or advice... food, tire, tool, or otherwise... would be appreciated.

Oh yeah, FWIW... the ride is the OR Randonneurs Brewpub Popularie <http://www.orrandonneurs.org/rba/2012/Brewpub/Brewpub_Info.html>

Thanks, Smitty

--
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Cyclo...@earthlink.net

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-- Robert McCammon, "Boy's Life"

[CycloFiend]

Good advice all around.  I don't think I have too much to add to the discussion, but here are a few thoughts:

Your comfort on longer rides is not something to be determined abstractly.  Some stuff will work well, but other bits you'll just get wrong.  You'll build up what works well for you - everything from food to clothing. One of the things which worked really well was sitting down with stuff after the fact and asking what worked well and what was superfluous.  

One of the things which has helped me when things "go bad" on a ride is having a clear list of timing checks on my route sheet - one which I think is reasonable given my condition and the route and another which is a "worse case" scenario.  So, if I have to rest or run into some mechanical issues, I dont get overwhelmed.  You may be an hour behind where you thought you'd be, but when you see you still have an hour before the "worst", then it tends to be a lift.

Little things matter a lot.  A small saddle or foot or hand discomfort always gets magnified the further you go.  Deal with that stuff early.  

As far as tools, my kit is pretty honed.  A few wrenches and a chain tool will cover you for 90% of the stuff.  Anything that can loosen - will.  If you have the tool, but not the knowledge, chances are you can find someone that can give assistance.   It's kind of my rosary, but I bring two tubes and two new patch kits on all rides.

I do add a first aid kit, with some advil, moleskin, chamois buttr and extra sunscreen.  

There's always a tendancy to ride hard out of the start and fall in with riders who are faster than you while the adrenaline is coursing.  Trust your pace and don't be afraid to back off in the early hours, then try to increase as you go along.

One of my mantras is "What small efficiencies can you find?".  The other is "Just keep swimming..just keep swimming" from "Finding Nemo" in a Dory voice.  I kind of modify it to "Just keep spinning..."  

On food - absoutely eat what works.  I find the longer I ride on a given day, the less sweet stuff seems to taste good.  Salty/crunchy is good.  Really strong dark chocolate.  You read it everywhere but drink before you are thirsty and eat before you are hungry.  I've set a watch timer on 15 minute increments to make sure I do both.  Tiny sips and small snacks are much better than a load of food sitting in your stomach.   I seem to tolerate goo type packets ok, and only use them when I feel like I'm losing steam in a serious way.  It is a way to get fire back in the boilers, but I find once I start with them, I have to keep chaining them every 30-45 minutes or I get a serious drop.  

I've got three 200k reports here:
http://cyclofiend.com/brevet/

Populaires are really good ways to shake things down and try things out.  Plus, you get a chance to meet and talk with folks who cover the longer routes, and you can see what works for them.  I've seen more people using the "Seattle" style flaps on their fenders - the long ones which seem to almost hit the ground - those are very kind to other riders in your group if the weather turns wet.

Have fun and share that ride report!

- Jim

"There were messengers who named their bikes, but Chevette never would have done that, and somehow because she did think about it like it was something alive."

William Gibson - "Virtual Light"

[CycloFiend]

on 3/6/12 3:10 PM, rcnute at rcn...@hotmail.com wrote:

> Are there populaires where cards are used? I haven't seen them on the
> SIR ones.

My club - San Francisco Randonneurs - use a card. Since they tend to focus
on these events to bring in new riders, they like to have the practice
dealing with controlles and such.

--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net

Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com
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patronage."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac"

[CycloFiend]

Thanks for the reminder, Ron! I'd forgotten to sign up. Trying to get a
good friend to go, so not sure if I'll be rolling the Quickbeam or the
Coastable (Hilsen).

- J

--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net

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[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 7, 4:06 pm, CycloFiend <cyclofi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>  I seem to tolerate goo type packets ok, and only use them when I feel like I'm losing
> steam in a serious way.  It is a way to get fire back in the boilers, but I
> find once I start with them, I have to keep chaining them every 30-45
> minutes or I get a serious drop.

quick tip for anyone using goo or gels for fuel: take them with
water!! i've seen lots of folks chasing that stuff with energy/sugary
drinks and that's not a good recipe - that actually impedes digestion
and the body has to work harder to deal with the high sugar
concentration. this can lead to upset stomachs, bonking, cramping and
generally not feeling well. i'm not advocating their use, but if you
"goo," be sure to dilute with water for best results. can't just pop
'em like candy.

[Lynne Fitz]

Here is my writeup from the last time I rode that very Populaire:
http://lynnerides.blogspot.com/2011/05/bonus-sunny-snooseville-populaire.html

Likely to be food at the turnaround at the end of Dairy Creek,
certainly food in Banks and Forest Grove (Maggies Buns!), and, of
course, food at the Cornelius Pass Roadhouse at the end. Food in
North Plains, too, but that's early in the ride. I generally don't
carry much more than a banana and bar or cookies or a sandwich on this
one, and that includes riding to and from the ride (+18 miles)

You'll have fun. People will be happier riding with you if you've got
fenders and proper mudflaps.

There will be a card. You will need to collect receipts and/or
signatures (depends on the control). Bring a ziploc-type bag and a
pencil. Also consider how you will keep your cue sheet dry and
accessible.

[charlie]

Wow ! My 500+ gram 700x 40 Supremes are my light tires I have the 700x
47's on now that weigh somewhere around 1000 grams. Those Supremes
roll nice and are comfy and pretty flat proof. If they are not too
worn out I'd ride them over nearly any other tire. If you are light I
think the same tire in the narrower version might be a little more
sporty but for me at 257 now....they are perfect. Flotation rules, go
wide with pride!

[Smitty]

"My 500+ gram 700x 40 Supremes are my light tires"... yeah, they're mine too, but I know there are lighter + "faster" tires out there. I was just fretting the details. In fact, my Hilsen even with a load of groceries in the front basket and a 40 pound toddler on the rear rack is my lightest and zippiest bike. Once I shed that weight a few grams in the tires is insignificant. 

So many responses! Thanks to everyone for the advice and the links. Lots to digest. I've read through everything but will surely go through it all several more times. My trepidation about jumping into the 100k has been replaced by excitement. Looking forward to seeing/meeting those of you who might be there. I'll be the newbie on the 2tt AHH... please say "hi".

--Smitty

On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:09:17 AM UTC-8, Smitty wrote:

I'm thinking of riding in a 100k populaire in a couple weeks. I know it's not a tremendous distance but it'll be my first rando event and my longest ride ever. 

I plan to do it on my Hilsen... I've got the necessary reflectors, lights (battery), fenders, and a small sackville saddle bag + front trunk sack to carry stuff. 

I've got 40mm Marathon Supremes on there now. I imagine I'd be the only one with 40mm tires. Not that that's a deal breaker but I've been contemplating getting a set of faster tires and this seems like as good a reason as any to make a purchase. What sort of tires do people normally ride on such an event? I love all the Schwalbes I've had and am tempted to get Kojaks out of brand loyalty. I was also eyeing the 32mm Grand Bois Cypress on Jan's site. As far as I can tell Jan is the rando guy and I can't imagine he'd sell crappy tires. 

What sort of foods do people eat? I'd rather avoid things in the power goo and protein pudding food group. I went for a ride with some roadie types a few weeks ago and brought dates as my snack. I was keeping up ok before I ate the dates but the dates sat heavy in my belly and I became a slug.

How extensive of a tool kit do people generally bring on a ride like this? I generally carry more tools than I've ever really needed on the road. Flats are really my only stop-me-in-my-tracks roadside repair I've had to deal with. I'm tempted to minimize the tool kit but don't want to go too small.   

I realize the ride is short enough that I could probably get by doing business as usual and get through it but thought I'd solicit advice from those who have gone before. Perhaps I could appear more sophisticated than I really am. Any thoughts or advice... food, tire, tool, or otherwise... would be appreciated.

Oh yeah, FWIW... the ride is the OR Randonneurs Brewpub Popularie

Thanks, Smitty

 

 

[Mike]

Hey Smitty, I won't be at the populaire but I know those roads well
and you'll have a good time. The ORR crew is quite a mix but everyone
is friendly. They'll be a fast crew that blast off at the start but
there will also be plenty of folks just motoring along at a reasonable
pace and enjoying the ride. There's tons of good advice, just remember
to eat and don't get stressed keeping up with folks faster than you.

A 100k populaire was my first randonneuring event and I was hooked
after I did that. I couldn't wait until the 200k. And then the 300k.
and on... During my first year I overpacked for each ride but it
didn't matter. This past year I did a 300k with just a XS SaddleSack
and felt I had everything I needed. There seem to be things that you
pick up and learn with experience no matter what you read.

Hopefully you'll feel up for the 200k starting in Canby. It'll be new
route for all of us but sure to beautiful and enjoyable. Be sure to
take pictures.

--mike

[Pammie]

On a slightly different tangent - I'm wanting to rando - I know, for example, the Betty Foy is good for light touring . . 

What do you think about using the BF or a mixte for Rando?  I'm a bike fanatic that doesn't have a good touring bike ( I have a road, hybrid, folding and full susp.)  but am looking to buy a  commuter (24 miles RT) that can be used for longer touring . . . I'd like to do a populaire this year. . . Any thoughts would be helpful! - Pam (in Ventura).

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sat, 2012-03-10 at 19:33 -0800, Pammie wrote:
> On a slightly different tangent - I'm wanting to rando - I know, for
> example, the Betty Foy is good for light touring . .
>
>
> What do you think about using the BF or a mixte for Rando?

Much depends on how well the Friday or the mixte fit you. I know people
who ride brevets on Fridays. I think one has done PBP on the Friday.

"Mixte" covers a multitude of possibilities, some excellent for long
distance riding, some best suited to short shopping trips.

In any case, you definitely do not need a full-up loaded touring bike to
do brevets.

[Joan Oppel]

Pam - I don't have a mixte, but I do have a Bike Friday.  I've ridden it on several long rides - a 2-day ride last August that covered 108 miles the first day, 84 the second day.  It's also been on at least 2 rides of over 70 miles.  It's a fine and comfortable bike for me and I took care in setting it up to be that way.  I have a rear rack so it can carry a trunk bag and I use a smaller handlebar bag.  I know at least a couple of people who have done long randonneur rides on Bike Fridays (200k, and longer).  

I think it all depends on how comfortable on the BF, whether it's geared for the terrain of the populaire.  As for the mixte, I think it would be good to try it out on a 45-50 mile ride and see how you feel at that distance.  That will give you some data about how it would work for you on the longer populaire.  

Hope that helps,

Joan

On 03/11/12, Pammie<pammi...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

On a slightly different tangent - I'm wanting to rando - I know, for example, the Betty Foy is good for light touring . . 

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[cyclotourist]

A Foy would do wonderfully IMHO. Drop bars would be the thing that makes or breaks it though. If you have Albatross bars like most Betties are set up, you may get tired of the two hand positions and upright posture. Anything more than a couple

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Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

**
“I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that’s the America millions of Americans believe in. That’s the America I love.”

[Peter Morgano]

Sorry it's been a while since I rode with drop bars but don't they have only two positions too?  On top of the bars and down in the drops?  Again it has been a while for me,  my last drop bars were nitto olympiad,  Haha. 

[Pammie]

Great posts!  Thanks!  Yes, I have a Brompton and am completely jealous of those touring Bike Fridays I see posted from Europe!!  I'm so impressed you've done extensive touring - we have a dealer close to my house.   As for me, I've only done about 20 miles on my folder so far (I used it for air travel - which I do quite a bit of for work). . .And, brilliant idea about the drops - I tend to agree to really get into rando - the wonderfully upright position of the Albatross for example, could be tiring. . . So, I'd have to probably set it up as a tourer from the get go  (but the Albatross do look so comfy for shorter jaunts!). . . . . I'm scouring the lists for possible used Betty Foys and Glorious'.   I'm gonna have to do a populaire this year!  I'll dare do one on a mixte. 

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[Smitty]

I'm a recent drop bar tryer-out-er... nitto noodle 48s. Been on the bike 3 or 4 weeks. The more I ride 'em the more I like 'em. I've found 5 or maybe 6 useful positions.  And a few more that work for a brief stretch-out positions. 

1) straight top section (narrow or wide + overhand or underhand)

2) curves (underhand or over hand)

3) ramps 

4) brake hoods 

5) drops forward (so I can reach brake levers)

6) drops back (near bar ends)

Now that I'm used to the wide drops I'm interested to try some that are a bit more narrow for comparison.

[cyclotourist]

What Smitty said.

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[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2012-03-11 at 22:43 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> Sorry it's been a while since I rode with drop bars but don't they
> have only two positions too? On top of the bars and down in the
> drops? Again it has been a while for me, my last drop bars were
> nitto olympiad,

More like 6 rather than 2 positions.

[Seth Vidal]

What's the sixth one?

I can think of: hooks, hoods, ramps, bends, flats.

What's number 6?

-sv

[Peter Morgano]

Sorry steve, wasnt insulting your mom, just asking an honest question. Relax, you will live longer.

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2012-03-12 at 09:38 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> Sorry steve, wasnt insulting your mom, just asking an honest question.
> Relax, you will live longer.

And I was giving you an honest answer. What's got your knickers in a
twist?

- bar top
- at the curve
- on the ramp
- on the hoods
- in the hooks
- on the bar ends

I count six. Of these, I use all but the next to last.

[Seth Vidal]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-03-12 at 09:38 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
>> Sorry steve, wasnt insulting your mom, just asking an honest question.
>> Relax, you will live longer.
>
> And I was giving you an honest answer.  What's got your knickers in a
> twist?
>
> - bar top
> - at the curve
> - on the ramp
> - on the hoods
> - in the hooks
> - on the bar ends
>
> I count six.  Of these, I use all but the next to last.
>
>

Ah ha - on the bar ends - I don't often ride there so I don't think of
that as a position.

-sv

[Peter Morgano]

Sorry, still cant tell what is sarcasm and what is trying to be helpful on the web, all nuance is lost in typing.    Maybe this summer will try the davinci splitters and build a noodle setup to go back and forth with them and the Albas to see which one is better since I dont currently own a drop bar bike.

[Philip Williamson]

I use the last three and the first on flared drop bars, but I don't
ride as far at a stretch as many of you do.

Philip
speaking of knickers...
http://www.biketinker.com/2012/rambles/nice-bike-knickers-for-sale/

On Mar 12, 7:07 am, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-03-12 at 09:38 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> > Sorry steve, wasnt insulting your mom, just asking an honest question.
> > Relax, you will live longer.
>
> And I was giving you an honest answer.  What's got your knickers in a
> twist?
>
> - bar top
> - at the curve
> - on the ramp
> - on the hoods
> - in the hooks
> - on the bar ends
>
> I count six.  Of these, I use all but the next to last.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com>

[CycloFiend]

"Sorry, still cant tell what is sarcasm and what is trying to be helpful on the web, all nuance is lost in typing. " 

Let's see, let me dig out my list admin hat on this one....
and I'm really just taking up this comment as I've been way behind on any kind of general State of the List Message of late.  So, the main bad is on me.

If it's on this list, it's supposed to be helpful.  The Quality of this list works best if everyone assumes that the tone they're reading is a helpful one.  

Although I haven't been as actively posting, I do try to read the majority of the comments.  It's been gratifying to see that the "polite and helpful" tone which is the (lone) guideline of this group has been maintained so well as we've grown.  (And grown we have...)

Anyway, I'm a big believer in assuming a smile on the other side of the monitor.  

- Jim

--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net

"One Cog - Zero Excuses" L/S T-shirt (and others!) - Now available
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[Peter Morgano]

Hmm, I wish we could all be so positive, living and working in NYC and working in the legal/financial industry for a while has soured me on people's intentions and tone in email/texts in general.  Wish i was close enough to the Park down here to go do a lap on my break but alas stuck here in lower manhattan all day. I will try to adjust my brain from work mode to list mode next time before I respond.  Thanks all.

[Steven Frederick]

I almost think there are two positions on the ba top, too--in near the
stem for aerodynamics or further out for control on a dirt road or to
sit up and rest ones shoulders/hands/neck.

SteveF

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Seth Vidal <skv...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Lynne Fitz]

Back to the original subject - I am planning to be riding the OrRando
populaire this coming Saturday. If you want to say hi, I will be one
of the few women there, pink Sweetpea w/S&S couplers, canvas luggage,
hammered Honjo fenders and Little Pink Bear on the Carradice Barley.
OrRando wool jersey, probably concealed under a Randonneurs USA logo-
ed electric blue Showers Pass jacket. Oh, and the Hutchinson 650b
tires, pumped to to somewhere between 4 and 5 BAR.

Cheers,
Lynne F

> Oh yeah, FWIW... the ride is the OR Randonneurs Brewpub Popularie<http://www.orrandonneurs.org/rba/2012/Brewpub/Brewpub_Info.html>
>
> Thanks, Smitty

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2012-03-14 at 11:53 -0400, Steven Frederick wrote:
> I almost think there are two positions on the ba top, too--in near the
> stem for aerodynamics or further out for control on a dirt road or to
> sit up and rest ones shoulders/hands/neck.

For a wide bar, I would definitely agree. For a narrow one and big
hands, maybe not. I very briefly tried on of Jan's Randonneur bars at
the Stonewall Jackson shrine one one of Meade's iBOB rides, and found it
so narrow I barely had one position on the bar top - felt like there
wasn't enough room. And I think there are narrower bars than that!