AHH or Rodeo?

[Duplomacette]

I'm seriously considering adding another Riv to my small stable of
bikes. I currently own a Sam and I like it just fine but would like to
have another bike with a bit more zip. The Rodeo seems like a good
choice and I do like the 700 wheels mostly for more tire options BUT I
feel the AHH could be a good choice too if I build it up more as a
roadish bike and in the end I'd have a bike a bit more versatile than
the Rodeo. Thoughts?

[Peter Morgano]

San Marcos and save some cash?

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[William]

You've stated the differences quite concisely.  Both are sporty road bikes.  The Hilsen is for sure more versatile and heavier.  The Roadeo is more specifically tuned, and is lighter.  Both are tremendous.  

I just finished setting up a road bike that is functionally similar to a Roadeo (takes the same 47-57mm brakes).  I will always run 28-33mm tires on it.  I'll run 28s with fenders, and will sometimes use wider tires when the fenders are off.  I have other bikes that take chubbier tires if I'm doing riding that calls for it.  

For me, I think the Hilsen looks weird with 28mm or narrower tires.  It looks great with Jack Browns and fenders, or with even wider tires, and you've got your Sam to fill that role in the stable.  

[Lyle Bogart]

I suggest erring on the side of versatility.

 

lyle

--
lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd

wiscasset, me 04578

207.882.6494

206.794.6937

[Joe Bernard]

Roadeo. The Hilsen lands between Sam and Roadeo; it's a good choice if you don't aready own one of the other two. You have a Sam, so might as well flip that coin.

 

Joe Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

[reynoldslugs]

The Roadeo is a beautiful, fun, fun, and versatile bike. When
thinking "versatile" remember that you are talking about the Rivendell
version of versatilve - - even a "not so versatile" Rivendell is a
thousand times more versatile than most anything else out there. I
love, love my Roadeo - - it's built as a "fast" road bike (meaning the
bike is fast but I ain't) with Campagnolo 10 speed parts (from my old
Colnago), with 32 mm Schwalbe Kojaks. It handles crappy roads with
grace - - - I'm the only guy in Sonoma County who actually enjoys the
descent on Cavedale Road, 'cuz no one else has big enough tires, nor a
bike that can absorb that much abuse.

Here are some pictures:

Drive side on a short ride:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/sets/72157625470080748/

Spring Bovine Ride:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/sets/72157625377490164/

Hell's Gate - - Roadeo was the PERFECT bike for this century - - maybe
8k in climbing (?) with much of it on bad pavement:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/sets/72157626529502314/

[RJM]

I am in the same boat, have a Sam and would like something to ride on the faster rides like club rides.  I would really like to know how much faster the Roadeo is compared to a Hilsen.  I know, I know, it's all in the engine, but still, would the geometry, tubing, weight of the Roadeo make a large difference over the Hilsen?

 

My Sam uses 650b wheels and a Hilsen in my size would be 650b, but a Roadeo would be 700's.  I don't know how much of a difference that would make in the real world.

[kps]

I don't own the Sam or the AHH, but I do have a Roadeo. I can tell you for me, it is incredibly versatile. Love it, and am thrilled every time I ride it.
Quick but plush in its ride. I have only ridden 28 paselas and (now) jack brown greens. Happy. -kps

[Smitty]

Go for the Roadeo. A Hilsen would have a lot of overlap with your Sam. --Smitty

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 5:01:54 PM UTC-7, Duplomacette wrote:

[James Warren]

Get the Roadeo. Sam way close to AHH.

Roadeo will still take the big tires: 700x32 with fenders I'm pretty sure.
You want Zip, so get the Roadeo. If doing a ride that needs some racks, you have your Sam.

You'll be all set!

-Jim W.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Duplomacette <jjrhi...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Apr 3, 2012 5:01 PM
>To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
>Subject: [RBW] AHH or Rodeo?
>
>I'm seriously considering adding another Riv to my small stable of
>bikes. I currently own a Sam and I like it just fine but would like to
>have another bike with a bit more zip. The Rodeo seems like a good
>choice and I do like the 700 wheels mostly for more tire options BUT I
>feel the AHH could be a good choice too if I build it up more as a
>roadish bike and in the end I'd have a bike a bit more versatile than
>the Rodeo. Thoughts?
>

[James Warren]

But you already have versatility in the Sam. I've ridden both the Sam and the AHH on long rides with drop bars. They are very similar.

-----Original Message-----
From: Lyle Bogart
Sent: Apr 4, 2012 11:38 AM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] AHH or Rodeo?

I suggest erring on the side of versatility.

 

lyle

On 4 April 2012 14:35, Peter Morgano <uscpet...@gmail.com> wrote:

San Marcos and save some cash?

On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Duplomacette <jjrhi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm seriously considering adding another Riv to my small stable of
bikes. I currently own a Sam and I like it just fine but would like to
have another bike with a bit more zip. The Rodeo seems like a good
choice and I do like the 700 wheels mostly for more tire options BUT I
feel the AHH could be a good choice too if I build it up more as a
roadish bike and in the end I'd have a bike a bit more versatile than
the Rodeo. Thoughts?

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lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd

wiscasset, me 04578

207.882.6494

206.794.6937

[James Warren]

The AHH does not land halfway between Sam and Roadeo. I don't even think it lands halfway between Rambouillet and Sam. It's closer to Sam than it is to Ram. (Dr. Seuss would have fun with this.)

 

I've never ridden a Roadeo, but I'm willing to bet that it rides a bit quicker than Rambouillet.

 

More data: my samples are all 700C. 32 spoke Dura Ace hub rear wheel on Ram and 36 spoke XT hub rear wheels on the AHH and Sam. All comparisons done with Jack Brown Green tires. It's possible that my results have been skewed by wheel choices.

 

Still, for your stated objectives, Roadeo is the way.

 

-Jim W.

-----Original Message-----
From: RJM
Sent: Apr 4, 2012 12:15 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH or Rodeo?

I am in the same boat, have a Sam and would like something to ride on the faster rides like club rides.  I would really like to know how much faster the Roadeo is compared to a Hilsen.  I know, I know, it's all in the engine, but still, would the geometry, tubing, weight of the Roadeo make a large difference over the Hilsen?

 

My Sam uses 650b wheels and a Hilsen in my size would be 650b, but a Roadeo would be 700's.  I don't know how much of a difference that would make in the real world.

 

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 7:01:54 PM UTC-5, Duplomacette wrote:

I'm seriously considering adding another Riv to my small stable of
bikes. I currently own a Sam and I like it just fine but would like to
have another bike with a bit more zip. The Rodeo seems like a good
choice and I do like the 700 wheels mostly for more tire options BUT I
feel the AHH could be a good choice too if I build it up more as a
roadish bike and in the end I'd have a bike a bit more versatile than
the Rodeo. Thoughts?

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[Imladris]

I have both the AHH and the Roadeo. Go for the Roadeo - it is very
zippy and fun to ride. The AHH is also fun to ride, but more for when
you want to (or want to be able to) put on racks, fenders, generator
hubs, tires wider than 33mm, etc. The Sam is basically the same as
the Hilsen, at a lower price/detail point. The Roadeo will do what
the Sam and Hilsen won't. If you had to get one bike, the AHH (or
Sam) would be it. But with 2, go for one that gives you a different
option.

[Philip Williamson]

Roadeo. 

For all the reasons already mentioned.

 Philip

Philip Williamson

www.biketinker.com

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 5:01:54 PM UTC-7, Duplomacette wrote:

[William]

So much consensus!  I can't stand it.  Let's fight over what color Roadeo he should get

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 5:01:54 PM UTC-7, Duplomacette wrote:

[Patrick in VT]

On Apr 4, 3:15 pm, RJM <crccpadu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would really like to know how much faster
> the Roadeo is compared to a Hilsen.  I know, I know, it's all in the
> engine, but still, would the geometry, tubing, weight of the Roadeo make a
> large difference over the Hilsen?

outside of the engine, i'd think it would depend on the build. I'd
take a 20lbs Hilsen build over a 25lbs Roadeo build. there can't be
much of a weight difference between the frames, but the Roadeo seems
like a better platform for a dedicated road build.

[William]

Agreed.  The identical build on both frames would probably be within a pound.  Certainly within two.  That's not going to yield a large speed difference. 

[Brian Hanson]

What size are you in?  If it's 59cm or over, I recall Grant saying that the Roadeo has the same tubing as the Hilsen, so the weights should be reallllly close.  At that point, with the AHH you just need to work out the max tire size you will "ever need".  That's the difference I see.  That and the names...

Brian

Seattle, WA

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[Duplomacette]

First let me correct myself by saying ROADEO. Thanks guys for all the
input. Looks like I should get on this soon since it appears as though
Rivendell probably doesn't have any Roadeos laying around. Deposit
time! Now I have to rack my brain with what size I should get.

[Duplomacette]

My Sam is a 52 due to the sloped top tube/geometry but with most bikes
I ride a 54. At least that's what my cross check is.

[Bruce Herbitter]

I think what Grant actually said is that Roadeo has the lightest tubing he is willing to use.  It is a lighter frame.

Sent from my Kindle Fire

---

From: Brian Hanson <ston...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed Apr 04 22:51:22 CDT 2012
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: AHH or Rodeo?

[Bruce Herbitter]

Give RBW a call and chat them up about best size for you

Sent from my Kindle Fire

---

From: Duplomacette <jjrhi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed Apr 04 21:48:21 CDT 2012

To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH or Rodeo?

[Dan Abelson]

One in my opinion advantage to the roadeo is the ability to get a threadless fork.  You  will have a much greater choice of handlebars especially as a lot of  bars seem to be going to 31.8

Dan Abelson

[Stephen S]

I think they never have any lying around and they are built to order at Waterford. When I bought mine it was a 2-3 month wait but I got to choose the color. I love mine but with already having a Rambouillet I probably should have gotten an Atlantis.

Stephen

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Can anybody clearly articulate the differences between the AHH and the Roadeo? I doubt the weight difference is more than a few ounces. And having followed Rivendell's trajectory of bike design pretty closely for the past 8 years, I'd be surprised if the geometry was vastly different between the two models. So a lot of people seem to be saying the Roadeo is faster. Why?

Personally, the few times I've tried to own a "road bike", I put very few miles on it because of the lack of versatility and the inability to carry much cargo.

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 7:01:54 PM UTC-5, Duplomacette wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

The Roadeo has lighter tubing. It may only be a "few ounces", but in "roadie world" this is a significant detail. The Roadeo is Grant's effort to offer a "modern" lugged-steel bicycle to folks who otherwise wouldn't purchase a Rivendell. I'm sure it's also the answer to the question, "What if we built a production version of a road bike Mark Abele would order from Nobilette..?"

 

Joe Bernard

Vaallejo, CA.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Well, if we were in "roadie world", where a few ounces was important, then the Roadeo wouldn't be a very good choice, because it is substantially heavier than other "roadie world" bikes. But I think most people on this list agree that a few ounces, even a pound or two, doesn't significantly affect speediness. Most of us readily pay the weight penalty of steel for cosmetics or nostalgia or ride quality or toughness or versatility. In fact, my experience is that a lot of Riv types prefer heavier parts, because they distrust (often rightfully) anything optimized for racing or for appealing to weight weenies.

I sort of believe that the AHH and the Roadeo are 99% the same bike. Put light parts on the AHH and you'd have a 19lb bike instead of a 18lb bike.

[Joe Bernard]

My point is that a roadie outside of our little corner of the world will be looking for the lightest Rivendell; one with 700c wheels in all sizes, and a threadless fork. No, I don't think the weight difference between AHH and Roadeo matters much to us here on the list. Pick your color/wheel size/braze-ons..heck, pick your favorite name. Either one will be fast and light enough.

[James Warren]

Different head angle and different wheel base, with Roadeo being steeper and shorter respectively. I think these are important contributors to the difference in ride.

In addition, with 130 mm spacing, the Roadeo is more conducive to lighter road wheels, but of course, this would be a trend and one could buck it by having specially made light wheels with 135 mm hubs for the AHH.

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James Warren

jimcw...@earthlink.net

- Remember, my friends, it is better to feel fast than to be fast.

[J L]

In the smaller sizes the Roadeo and the AHH are quite different (the size the OP rides would be a 650b AHH vs. a 700c Roadeo)  The geometry is especially different in these smaller sizes too.  Once the size gets up a little larger (59cm seems to the be spot) the bikes become less different.  I used to own a 54cm Salui (650b AHH under a previous name) and should have never sold it - Great Bike.  Recently I tested a Roadeo in 55cm and the two are worlds apart.  The Saluki was stable and resolute while the Roadeo was fast and agile - not to imply that either couldn't be the other but they were very clearly not the same bike.  I think the large 700c are sort of lost on the smaller frame and a 28 would be more suited than the 33.3 tires that were on it.  Also no DT bossed on the Roadeo is a big difference. 

To more directly interact with the OPs question... Yes the Roadeo gives more variety than another 650b bike in a similar size.  Congrats on the deposit.

The tubing selection for the Roadeo and the AHH are different enough that it is noticeable.

JL

[cyclotourist]

I ran the #'s through JimG's trail calc, and interestingly enough, on 59cm frames, the trail (and presumably handling) is the same when the Roadeo has 28mm tires (60mm trail), and AHH has 40's (61mm trail). So if you like the way Rivendell's handle/steer, your choice of bike should include a decision on the size of tire you want to ride most of the time.

The threadless headset mentioned above is nice on a Roadeo, too. I'm quite the convert to those. Would like to get that option on all Rivendell bikes.

Please discuss amongst yourselves.

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

**
“I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that’s the America millions of Americans believe in. That’s the America I love.”

[Patrick in VT]

On Apr 5, 11:28 am, James Warren <jimcwar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Different head angle and different wheel base, with Roadeo being steeper and shorter respectively. I think these are important contributors to the difference in ride.

yeah, that geo and the threadless option just make it a better
platform for a dedicated road bike - which isn't to say, as Jim notes,
an AHH couldn't be essentially the same bike if it used a light build
kit. but using an AHH as a dedicated road bike, however, doesn't make
much sense. that bike is destined to do more.

Jim also makes an important point regarding a preference for heavier
parts - building up a 25lb Roadeo might not yield what was supposed a
zippier bike than the other 25lb bike in one's stable. choice of
components needs to be considered along with the frame.

[Aaron Thomas]

I agree with those who advocate the Roadeo. I've test ridden the 55cm floor model extensively, taking it out for long rides over several days. It's a superb bike: responsive, stable, peppy. 

It isn't as quick handling or spry as an Italian race bike, but that in itself may be an argument in its favor, depending on what ride characteristics you desire and prefer. With careful attention to components, a Roadeo could be built up reasonably lightweight.

This isn't to say that a Hilsen can't be built light or used as a club racer. I've seen one noteworthy example of a racy Hilsen, decked out with Campy record carbon and a threadless fork/stem. This setup certainly didn't hold this guy back on this ride; he smoked many people to the top of the mountain (myself included).  

Yet I do find something odd looking about the Hilsen with 23 mm tires -- just looks kinda goofy. The Roadeo has slightly tighter clearances, so a 23 mm tire wouldn't look as out of place.

Aaron

[William]

There's a spectacularly fast brevet rider on an Orange 700c Hilsen in Santa Cruz.  He rides on 25mm tires by my reckoning, and he's got a very sporty contemporary build on his Hilsen.  I have not had time to dwell on the details because after we get out of town on a 200 or a 300k, he just rests his forearms on the tops, and puts it into gear and disappears down Hwy 1 cruising at 40kph, leaving me and other humans to our slower paces.  I love the color of his bike, and I love the Hilsen deeply (as I have a 58cm 650B one, and have considered more than once getting a 59cm 700c one), but it looks wrong with 25mm tires.  

[William]

Aaron I think I just posted above about that dude.  He's dropped me on brevets a couple times, and yes, skinny tires in 73mm reach calipers looks really goofy.  It makes it look like a 27" to 700c conversion.  

[Bruce Herbitter]

Just to see if it vould be done, i put a set of 26" eheels from my Ram on a 700 size crit racer using the 73 mm reach brakes.  It looked less goofy than the Hilsen pictured.

Sent from my Kindle Fire

---

From: William <tape...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu Apr 05 12:27:49 CDT 2012
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH or Rodeo?

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[William]

of course goofy is in the eye of the beholder

On Thursday, April 5, 2012 11:01:34 AM UTC-7, Fullylugged wrote:

Just to see if it vould be done, i put a set of 26" eheels from my Ram on a 700 size crit racer using the 73 mm reach brakes.  It looked less goofy than the Hilsen pictured.

Sent from my Kindle Fire

---

From: William <tape...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu Apr 05 12:27:49 CDT 2012

To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com

Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH or Rodeo?

Aaron I think I just posted above about that dude.  He's dropped me on brevets a couple times, and yes, skinny tires in 73mm reach calipers looks really goofy.  It makes it look like a 27" to 700c conversion.  

On Thursday, April 5, 2012 10:15:42 AM UTC-7, Aaron Thomas wrote:

I agree with those who advocate the Roadeo. I've test ridden the 55cm floor model extensively, taking it out for long rides over several days. It's a superb bike: responsive, stable, peppy. 

It isn't as quick handling or spry as an Italian race bike, but that in itself may be an argument in its favor, depending on what ride characteristics you desire and prefer. With careful attention to components, a Roadeo could be built up reasonably lightweight.

This isn't to say that a Hilsen can't be built light or used as a club racer. I've seen one noteworthy example of a racy Hilsen, decked out with Campy record carbon and a threadless fork/stem. This setup certainly didn't hold this guy back on this ride; he smoked many people to the top of the mountain (myself included).  

Yet I do find something odd looking about the Hilsen with 23 mm tires -- just looks kinda goofy. The Roadeo has slightly tighter clearances, so a 23 mm tire wouldn't look as out of place.

Aaron

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 5:01:54 PM UTC-7, Duplomacette wrote:

I'm seriously considering adding another Riv to my small stable of
bikes. I currently own a Sam and I like it just fine but would like to
have another bike with a bit more zip. The Rodeo seems like a good
choice and I do like the 700 wheels mostly for more tire options BUT I
feel the AHH could be a good choice too if I build it up more as a
roadish bike and in the end I'd have a bike a bit more versatile than
the Rodeo. Thoughts?

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[naw...@comcast.net]

When my Rodeo was ready to ship, I asked Mark to send a pair of Rolly Polly tires with the order.  He steered me to the JB's.  Said the frame was designed for this tire size.  My previous road bike was a Rambouillet and I loved the RP tires on it.  I was hesitant to go with the 33.3333's on the Roadeo.  After the first ride I was hooked.

My Roadeo is a 59 and my Rambouillet was a 60.  Dont really notice a weight difference between the two.  However the Roadeo is way lighter than my SimpleOne, but they both get ridden a good amount.

Dave Nawrocki
Fort Collins, CO

---

From: "cyclotourist" <cyclot...@gmail.com>
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 10:21:57 AM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: AHH or Rodeo?

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2012-04-05 at 20:19 +0000, naw...@comcast.net wrote:
> When my Rodeo was ready to ship, I asked Mark to send a pair of Rolly
> Polly tires with the order. He steered me to the JB's. Said the
> frame was designed for this tire size. My previous road bike was a
> Rambouillet and I loved the RP tires on it. I was hesitant to go with
> the 33.3333's on the Roadeo. After the first ride I was hooked.

Well, basically they're the same tire only the JB is a wee bit wider,
right?

[William]

Only if a 'wee bit' is ~5mm.  The Roly Poly runs a true 27mm on a narrow rim (open pro) and the Jack Brown runs a hair under a true 33mm on the same rim.  The tread pattern is identical.  

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2012-04-05 at 14:18 -0700, William wrote:
> Only if a 'wee bit' is ~5mm. The Roly Poly runs a true 27mm on a
> narrow rim (open pro) and the Jack Brown runs a hair under a true 33mm
> on the same rim. The tread pattern is identical.

As, I believe, is the construction. Same thing, only a little wider.

[William]

If it were me, I would also consider discussing with them the addition of downtube shifter bosses.  I'd also ask them if they'd support you adding the option of fork braze-ons for a Mark's rack.  That's just me, but I love my downtube shifters and my handlebar bag, even on a dedicated road bike.  Just a thought.  

[Bill M.]

The extra weight in a Homer is probably a trivial part of the whole roder + bike equation, but it's not just about the weight.  Lighter tubes will flex a bit more, potentially giving a livelier feel to the machine.  As an extreme counter-example, I have a Miyata 1000 tourer that I commute on.  The frame and fork weigh 7-1/2 pounds IIRC.  A light traditional road frame and fork are more like six pounds (the Roadeo should be around there in a middling size), and modern ultralight steel frames can carve over a pound off of that.  1-1/2 pounds are nothing compared to my 180 plus the bike in full commuting trim, but unloaded the Miyata is a heavy, dead feeling frame, nothing like a light steel racer.  That is, until you add 40+ pounds of touring gear.  Then the Miyata feels springier, livelier, and quite at home, while the racer carrying that load would be wobbling all over the road.  

The Roadeo is intended to feel right carrying a rider and not too much more.  The Hilsen will carry a moderate load or a heavier rider with grace, but might not feel as lively unloaded.  You choose between them based on the intended use. 

Bill

[jimD]

If we get to vote - Roadeo.

For myself it isn't how fast the bike is but how fast the bike feels.

Zippy is fun.
-JimD

On Apr 4, 2012, at 6:12 PM, Patrick in VT wrote:

> On Apr 4, 3:15 pm, RJM <crccpadu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I would really like to know how much faster
>> the Roadeo is compared to a Hilsen. I know, I know, it's all in the
>> engine, but still, would the geometry, tubing, weight of the Roadeo make a
>> large difference over the Hilsen?
>
> outside of the engine, i'd think it would depend on the build. I'd
> take a 20lbs Hilsen build over a 25lbs Roadeo build. there can't be
> much of a weight difference between the frames, but the Roadeo seems
> like a better platform for a dedicated road build.
>