Project Help my Build my Atlantis

[dr...@charter.net]

In a few days I should be getting my Atlantis frame back newly painted
from California. I want to rebuild it from the bottom up, as the
components, chainrings etc, were completely worn out.

However I am much better at long distance cycling than I am at putting
a bike together. In fact, I know nothing about it at all. I have a
bike mechanic who is going to let me buy and pick out my own
components. He could probably advise me, however I suspect that with
the help of a few of you Rivendell owners and builders here, I could
put together the bike of my dreams. Last time, I just kind of asked
the bike store to put on touring Shimano components, it worked well ,
but I this time I want it rebuilt a bit lighter with upgraded
technology.

Can I get a few of you to help me? If so, I will tell can start by
telling you the components that I had on it previously.

It took me two weeks just to pick out the new color for my bike. If I
tried to do this myself, it will take me a few years.

[dougP]

"...but I this time I want it rebuilt a bit lighter with upgraded
technology."

You will get plenty of input from this group but yes it would be
useful to know your current baseline, and intended use of the bike.
You mention long distance touring & of course that's the Atlantis
forte, but there are plenty that are used for commuting, off road,
etc.

An excellent source of inspiration is cyclofiend's Atlantis gallery.

dougP

[Minh]

wow, this is an open end question. Do you have a starting point? are you looking for a modern group or something more rivendell inspired? have you looked at the rivendell component groups on their website?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Go for an all-black SRAM X9 kit (with TT500 bar-ends) and White Industries MI5 hubs. It will be unique in the Riv world, and the stuff is beautiful in function.

[pb]

On Apr 2, 2:23 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Go for an all-black SRAM X9 kit (with TT500 bar-ends) and White Industries
> MI5 hubs. It will be unique in the Riv world, and the stuff is beautiful in
> function.

Wow. Bold idea. I have X-9 on my Lynskey mtn bike -- I have to say
that it's impressive. Interesting idea. Persuasive.

The White hubs would probably add a chunk of cost -- X9 hubs would do
the trick as well.

Does this also raise the subject of tubeless wheels.....? Is the
Atlantis 26" or 700? Is there a selection of tubelss tires in the
size range an Atlantis owner might be interested in?

~pb

[William]

The thing I can't get past with tubeless is the fact that I'm a tire swapper.  Every bike of mine gets different tires at least 4 times per year.  I think that tubeless would force me to give that up.  If I had an Atlantis (and I expect to have one someday), I could easily envision running lots of different tires on it.  

[cyclotourist]

You have to add latex every three months or so, so could swap tires at the time.

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[dr...@charter.net]

I used the Atlantis gallery to help pic colors. I know that some of
those folks list their components also..will have to go back and look.
I know there is one guy that has toured around the world on a green
Atlantis and I am sure that he knows a lot about setting up a bike.

[dr...@charter.net]

I priced the SRAm components- maybe if I buy a set I could afford it.
Are you talking about the trigger shifters or twister shifters? Also,
I could not figure out which crankcase went with the x9- is there one
specifically that you would recommend?

On Apr 2, 4:23 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Leslie]

On Monday, April 2, 2012 8:04:34 PM UTC-4, William wrote:
> The thing I can&#39;t get past with tubeless is the fact that I&#39;m a tire swapper.  Every bike of mine gets different tires at least 4 times per year.  I think that tubeless would force me to give that up.  If I had an Atlantis (and I expect to have one someday), I could easily envision running lots of different tires on it.  


Could consider, multiple wheel sets?


-L

[dr...@charter.net]

Where are the Rivendell components groups? I see on their website
BUILD KITS< but not for the Atlantis bike.

[Peter Morgano]

Rivendell does not have component groups like another of bike companies,  it's sort of mix and match which gives you lots of options but can also lead to buying more than you need to see what works.  The build kits are tailored for the more affordable bikes,  sam, betty, etc.  I guess the thought is the higher end bikes probably have buyers who have particular tastes.  I for one run an alfine hub in the rear and sometimes run a double up front on my Homer,  not a build anyone would sell you since I believe it voids the warranty on the hub, Haha.  I would get some second hand stuff and experiment,  sell what you don't use or use it on other bikes,  do what feels right for your riding style and tastes,  I know that options can get pricey but better to play around up front than do it piecemeal. 

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[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I think the X9 crank is branded Truvativ, which is part of the same parts company as SRAM. The X7 crank would be fine too, but the X9 comes in more versions and has more subtle logos. In fact, you can save quite a bit with the X5 or X7 kit or with select X5 and X7 parts. It all works together as long as it's all 10sp. Mine is the 42/28 double with 170 mm arms. With the 11-36 10sp cassette, the gear range is perfect for me.

I used the TT500 bar end shifters, but you certainly could use the triggers or the twisters if you plan to use more of a mountain bike bar. I don't think Silver shifters will work.

[Leslie]

On Monday, April 2, 2012 10:01:55 PM UTC-4, dr...@charter.net wrote:

Where are the Rivendell components groups? I see on their website
BUILD KITS< but not for the Atlantis bike.

I'd suggest that the build kits should work for an Atantis, too...   pick one that has the right wheelsize and handlebar for you, and it should work...

[Note: for the 58 or 61 Atlantis, which are 700c, a Sam set-up should work.   However, the other sizes of the build-kits are 650b, instead of 26".  If getting one of the 26" Atlantis frames, would have to pick piece-by-piece... you can select a build kit, then just copy it in your wishlist, adjust until you get it right, then buy...]

[Leslie]

Would be good if I'd actually read it:  http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/build-05.htm

"This is the recommended stock build for 56 & 60cm Sams. You can also apply it to a 62 Betty or a 700c Homer, Hunqapiilar or Atlantis just remember to add a bottom bracket and seatpost (those are included with Sams)."

So,  anyway, you could either get a Sam kit, if yours is a 700c, and add a BB and a seatpost;  or, take the list and get 650b wheels instead. 

[William]

That's a non-starter for me.  I run a $300 dynamo hub and will not give that up, so an extra wheelset would really add up ($400-500 for hubs, ~$150 for rims, ~$100 for spokes rim tape and sealant, ~$100-$140 for tires = up to $900 if I build the wheels myself)  For $1000 I'll stick with tubes and fix 4 or 5 flats per year.  

[dougP]

"Can I get a few of you to help me? If so, I will tell can start by
telling you the components that I had on it previously."

So what was your previous component group & set-up? Wheel size? Type
of riding? Preferred h'bars?

dougP

> > > tried to do this myself, it will take me a few years.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[dougP]

Just picked up that you had started another thread with the same title
where you listed your previous components.

You mention you're at 9 speed now so why not stick with that? Plenty
of wide range cassettes from both Shimano & SRAM. It sounds like you
plan to change the crankset; consider Riv's standard Sugino triple.
You may not have to change derailers either unless you want to or
unless you change shifters.

I've always found that a call to Rivendell can sort out a lot of
questions. They'll steer you in the direction of a component group
that will work well together and install easily on your Atlantis.

dougP

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[dr...@charter.net]

Thanks I am talking to a guy at Rivendell. I think I need a triple
wheel in the front. I want a bit better quality and lighter= and do
not necessarily have to replace the 105 derailiers as they work well.
I was looking at the Shimano Ultegra triple crank in the front, and
getting a new rear cassette for a nine speed, new BB and going from
there. The derailers could be replaced later if need be- they have
always worked well . I will look at the Sugino triple also and compare
weight and cost to Shimano.

[Ablejack]

This is the best crankset you can currently get. Not even up for debate. Lighter than today's campy record, cheaper too. Also the best looking component ever made. Can be set up as a single, double or a triple with a huge assortment of ring sizes. I suggest going double with a 46/30 onto an SKF BB. Easily installed and nice tight "Q". Not to mention the historic élan. All other crank suggestions may now vie for second best. (which is the TA Pro-V Cylclotouriste, in case you were wondering)

http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_rh.html

[William]

Even if you are right about the new Rene Herse crankset is the very best crankset in the world today, I wonder whether the ultra narrow Q of the Rene Herse crankset will work on an Atlantis.  Are you running that crankset on an Atlantis?

[Steve Park]

How about a SRAM Apex group with Shimano CX70 cantis?  White hubs are beautiful and lightweight, but the Shimano hubs are almost as nice and less expensive.

[Greg J]

You mention that you have Shimano 105 parts currently.  You don't mention how old they are, but if they are from the mid-2000s, then you pretty much have technology that is lighter and as technically advanced as anything you will get from Riv (or anything this group will recommend, except for Jim's SRAM, and even that I don't know would be any lighter or better functioning).

Functionally and value-wise, the 105 group pretty much can't be beat.  Everything else is for fun (which is really what most of us here do---friction / non-aero levers / etc. for the fun of it).  Or going lighter because you can.  Dura Ace is Shimano's best and lightest, then Ultegra, then 105.  

The fancy boutique parts manufacturers include Paul (brakes, levers),  Phil (hubs/bottom brackets), Chris King (hubs/headsets), White Industries (hubs).  Around here, Nitto parts and Grand Bois parts also get high marks.  Any of these would put the bling in your bike and make it more unique and win the admiration of us bike-geeks.    

Greg

[islaysteve]

I have 105 and like it a lot.  But lately I'm favoring a compact double crank (Sugino), and as far as I can tell, with the road groups (105, Ultegra, etc), you are limited in the size of the rear cogs.  So I've come to the conclusion that if I want to keep the compact double and have a versatile range of gears, I need to go to the mountain rear derailleurs, which is what Riv sells.  But IMO it must be Shimano and silver.  Of course none of this would preclude using the Herse crank.  Steve

[William]

For those who really like a compact double, I can confirm that I have used a Shimano Deore XT M751 GS rear derailer with a 12-36 9 speed cassette.  The GS is the shorter cage, so it looks sporty and roadish.  The M751 is the last one that came in all silver and had a barrel adjuster.  I stocked up on them, and love love love it on 4 compact double bikes right now.  A 12-36 in back with a 44/28 in front would leave you with precious little that you couldn't do.  

[islaysteve]

Thanks for the info, William.  I see that those are going for pretty good $ on eBay.  Will have to keep an eye out for one.  Do you have any suggestions for sources?  Steve 

[Ablejack]

No. A Saluki. Which admittedly has narrower chainstays than the Atlantis but by no means skinny. It'll take 42mm tires w/ fenders.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I know you're being tongue-in-cheek when you declare that anything is the indisputable "best". I work on enough old bikes to kill whatever nostalgia I may have once had for old parts or even for new parts that look old. I can't imagine a scenario where I'd consider putting an antiquarian crank like the TA or Compass RH crank on one of my bikes.

[Ablejack]

You can "stretch " out a 105 long cage rear derailleur to get around a 34, even though it suggests to max out at aaround 28 or so. I run a Dura-Ace rear mech thast puts me smoothly onto the 34t cog every time.

For everyone touting the 105 line; It's true! Most club racers ride 105 cause it works. For pure performance you can't beat it anywhere near the cost. And even then the performance difference comes more from what's on top of the saddle, not beneath it. Any year 105 is probably better than the Dura-Ace 5-10 yrs older anyway. 

/ I also confess a Huret Jubilee fetish too, and all that fancy pants bling stuff that only other geeks appreciate. For example, I apologize for my Paul canti brakes because they're so ugly. (although the kids -20 somethings- like them) Gotta get me some forged vintage Mafacs!  But I enjoy the ridiculous, over detailed, fancy pants stuff. I know it won't make my ride any better. In fact I will choose style over function straight up. But hey, it's another aspect of the whole experience that's fun for me. 

[William]

Steve

No I don't have a source.  I'm half-way hoping my Trek on ebay doesn't sell, just so I can part it out and absorb another M751 derailer into inventory.  I see a lot of posts here that Silver shifters don't like 9-speed, and I just swapped out a Dura Ace RD7700 for that reason.  Silver shifters with an RD7700 with 9-speed was horrible.  Silver shifters with a M751 with 9-speed is perfect.  I also prefer the reverse pull version.  If I ever see a reverse pull M751 for $60 or less, I'm buying it, regardless of how many I already have.  If I found a NIB one for under $100 and needed it, I'd do it.  

[islaysteve]

Thanks William.  I didn't know there was a reverse-pull M751.  Anyway, I use STI shifters (brifters) and I assume I need non-rapid-rise.  Steve

[dr...@charter.net]

very informative, as I want a broad range of gears. I have never had a
bike with only a double crank in front.

[Ablejack]

The obvious scenario to put beautiful parts on a bike is: You get a bike that you think is worth it. 

TA cranks can be finicky it's true. They were designed before there were standards. Otherwise they're sexy, strong and very good. They were the go-to crankset for the earliest mountain bikes because everything else would fail. I admit to a certain nostalgia (and francophilia) for them. But then again I appreciate a bike as an object as well as for its purpose. Furthermore I can't think of a more versatile crankset.  

The Rene Herse cranks on the other hand aren't any problem at all. They are truly as simple (and standard) as can be. I really don't know what you are talking about. I suspect that makes two of us. 

/sorry, that's more cheeky than tongue-in-cheek. And I do appreciate your taking issue with the claim of an indisputable best of anything. Perhaps. But I can't think of another rival for that title either.

[dr...@charter.net]

Thanks for all of your input so far. I am not sure what the hell most
of you are talking about here, but you sure are bike nerds. I am
still stuck on figuring out double versus triple crank in the front,
and if I change, which brand to use, and whether or not that requires
new derailers or not. I have no idea if I need new hubs or not, as my
wheels still are fine. I am way behind all of you, but have more time
to do some research next week. I will say that even with my basic 105
derailers, and Tiagra triple chainring that the guy at Williamson
cycle put on the bike when I first bought it, my Atlantis performed
amazingly well on my cross country ride through snowstorms, mudslides,
five mountain ranges, blazing heat, with not one breakdown or
malfunction. I hope that I can figure all this out soon, as my frame
is coming back next week..I do feel a bit more knowledgeable than I
did before.

On Apr 1, 7:53 pm, "dr...@charter.net" <dr...@charter.net> wrote:
> In a few days I should be getting my Atlantis frame back newly painted
> from California.  I want to rebuild it from the bottom up, as the
> components, chainrings etc, were completely worn out.
>
> However I am much better at long distance cycling than I am at putting
> a bike together.  In fact, I know nothing about it at all. I have a
> bike mechanic who is going to let me buy and pick out my own
> components. He could probably advise me, however I suspect that with
> the help of a few of you Rivendell owners and builders here, I could
> put together the bike of my dreams. Last time, I just kind of asked
> the bike store to put on touring Shimano components, it worked well ,

> but I this time I want it rebuilt a bit lighter with upgraded
> technology.
>

[Ablejack]

OK. But your "range" is determined only by the big ring and the granny. Having a ring in the middle doesn't add to your range of gears. Middle rings just overlap the same gear inches. Usually what happens with a triple is you end up with a large big ring that you sometimes avoid. If your tired at the end of a long day, you end up spinning a middle 38t (or whatever) and then it seems a necessary gear to have. But if you (like me) have no use for a big ring larger than 46t (or heck, a 44t) and you never leave it unless you are climbing a serious hill. And you are much better off than in that 36-39 range middle ring. I understand if you want a 24t granny that the chain has a long way to go with only one shift from a 48t. Perhaps you have to double shift there, but I have a friend who runs 46/24 (Stronglight cranks and TA rings). He climbs like a beast fully loaded (often when the rest of us normal people are struggling just to walk our bikes up) and he descends faster than I ever want to go. Comfort shifting is a rear mech job.

/alright maybe that middle is useful for the low grade 3 miles long grinding climb fully loaded into the wind. 

[dougP]

If your guy at Williamson cycle built up the bike and it served you so
well on a cross country tour, I wouldn't mess too much with success.

"I am not sure what the hell most of you are talking about here, but

you sure are bike nerds." You got that part right! If your guy is
still around, take copious notes, smoke out the BS (one rider's BS is
another's Holy Grail) and talk to your guy about where you want to go
with this bike. It's your bike, build it the way it works best for
you. Good luck! These projects can be fun.

dougP

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Ablejack: in my understanding, TA cranks were installed on the earliest MTBs because everything else at the time was 52/39 or thereabouts. Campy had a triple, but it was 54/42/36! Once some Japanese companies started making 110/74 cranks in 1983 or so, nobody ever used a TA on a MTB again. The claim that the TA cranks wouldn't fail is the opposite of my reality. They failed frequently. Every experienced bike mechanic I've known, and I've known some great ones, would, upon seeing a TA crank, say, "check it for cracks," with a dismissive tone as if cracks were standard-issue with this crank.

As for looks, that's subjective, of course. To me, the Francophile bikes are over the top. They often do look good as a package, but I'd feel weird and self-conscious riding one unless I was in a parade.

[islaysteve]

dr (original poster):  I agree you have a lot to consider and digest here.  You a debating compact double vs. triple cranks, for one thing.  As for myself, I've always had a double, and used 105 STI 'brifters'.  They have performed so well for me that I see no reason to leave them.  The mainline Rivendell philosophy favors non-indexed bar-end shifters, and lots of folks here go that way.  However one good thing about Riv and this forum is that there's a wide tolerance for individuality and using what works for you.  Along those lines, I'd suggest that you may first want to decide on your shifting system.  I believe that you have been using STI?  If you like it, you'll likely not want to change.  I've heard (and not confirmed, and others here may correct me) that triples are a bit more finicky for brifters.  But you were running a triple anyway, so would have your own experience.  As Jim and others have mentioned, you can go to a compact double and still have a wide gear range.  That's what I am going to work toward on my bike.  I also admit to considering it an object of "beauty" and consider that when choosing parts.  I got a very nice-looking Sugino Alpina compact double and that's what I'm sticking with.  You may not be able to keep your 105 RD if you opt for a larger cassette; but as mentioned above, you can get a good Shimano mtn derailleur that will handle the larger cogs and should be just as reliable as what you are used to.  Good luck, Steve

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

We should take care with the term "compact double". A road compact double is typically 50/34, and may not be suitable for loaded touring. A "mountain double" is usually a 39/26 or 42/28 or similar. Paired with the 11-36 or 12-36 casertes, the mountain double gives all the usable range of a triple without such finicky shifting in front.

[Ablejack]

True. "Compact Double" usually refers to the road racing set for pros and monsters. Sometimes I call the touring/rando sensible double we're discussing a "wide range double". Because you basically have the same range of a triple but without the middle ring. "Mountain Double" works for me although it implies a wider tread "mountain" specific crankset. But by any other name the ride is sweet. 

[Ablejack]

The Alpina is beautiful and very useful. The only issue for that set is that the 110 BCD is limited to 33t (per Peter White) at the bottom. I think the fellow looking for a new build here wants an easier climbing gear for touring. Something in the twenties just as he is accustomed with his triple. 

[Steve Palincsar]

Actually, all "compact double" refers to is the 110 mm bolt circle.
Although these usually come with 34/50 rings, there's nothing stopping
anyone from putting a smaller big ring on such a crank. 34 T is usually
as small as rings come in this size (although there may possibly be a
33T).

"Mountain double" obviously refers to a smaller bolt circle -- what used
to be called "microdrive".

[Ablejack]

OK. I've heard that too. But those TA cranks are often 60 years old and hard lived as well. And I'm not pushing the TA anyway, it's expensive and more finicky. I can appreciate the parade factor of it. 

What are some other options that allow for a 26t inner ring on a double without the wide tread of a mountain set? Stronglight (also french) comes to mind, and VO made a (fair, pretty but lesser quality) 94BCD as well. 

The suggestions (RH, TA) I made allow for a truly wide range double - and also are easily built as a triple as well if the user changes his mind. A 110 BCD requires a "triplizing" middle ring for anything smaller than 33t. This usually means 34t because it's hard to find the 33t. This is fine for randonneuring (light loads) but means walking up hills that a regular guy can ride with a triple granny while loaded touring. - Not that there's anything wrong with walking once in a while!

[William]

Other options that allow for a 40-something/26 combo also include the White Industries VBC.  Also, you could go Keven-Mowen-style and use a 110/74 and run chainguard/42/26.  I've actually got a 130/74 crankset set up exactly that way: chainguard/42/26.  I don't know how many choices for middle rings one can find in the 40's, but 42 is very common, and a 42-11 or a 42-12 is plenty high for a touring rig.  

[Ablejack]

Yeah I run a chainguard/42/+29 on my Kogswell "scraper" bike from a 130 sugino double with a TA conversion ring. It works very well, even with regular old pants. There are 42t rings that will bring you from a shimano 130 (Alize/K) or even a campy 135 down to a 74 (Vento/K). But why bother when you can get a packaged double that already does this without the chainguard? Especially as the fellow was concerned with weight. Probably most of us would say unnecessarily concerned, but you want what you want. (The lightest way would be ditching the square spindle BB altogether and go with a splined connection, heaven forbid!) 

The White Industries variable slot is interesting too. I considered them when I was building the Saluki. I'd forgotten about that. The slots system seems sketchy at first look but would appear to work well for any BCD inner. They certainly offer a wide range. Anyone use them?  

http://whiteind.com/cranks/roadcranks.html

[Ablejack]

Cool, thanks! I'm thankful that there are people here that know what they are talking about as I shoot from the hip! 

/ and yeah, you can find a 33t for a 110, but you have to look around.

[William]

The thing to realize about the White VBC is they REALLY mean VBC.  Every single inner ring that White makes has a different BCD.  They supply these little rampy things that are held in place with the bolt assembly.  So every inner ring is made such that the bolt is just inside the teeth of the inner ring, so the rampy things are always in the perfect place to lift the chain off the inner ring when you shift up to the outer.  You should not think of the White as a crankset with a proprietary big ring and any inner ring.  They are both proprietary rings, for better or for worse.  That nuance didn't hit home for me until I had a long talk with them at their booth at NAHBS.  Now I'm really eager to try a set, but I'll probably stock up on rings if I do.  

[dr...@charter.net]

Well I want my bike to be beautiful too. I want indexed shifters, not
bar end as I am used to them. I am thinking about going to a double
crank. From everything I have read here is would be lighter, and I
could still get a good gear range for touring,a lthough I would have
to get a rear MB derailer. It is hard for me to conceive that with a
42 front ring that I could get a high enough gear for flats to cruise
on.. but from what i can tell it seems that you all think a triple
chain ring in the front is very repetitive. Am still not sure if I
have to replace my 105 Shimano indexed shifters if I just decide to
change to a double crank and different rear cassette. Can you clarify
please.? What is a brifter?I think the first thing to decide is double
or triple crank and rear cassette and then figure out if I have to
replace my current derailers and shifters if I do that. The rings
were the reason that I took the bike apart in the first place, as
they were the only parts that were really worn out.. now here I am
with half my bike sitting next to this computer desk in a big pile and
this is turning into a million dollar project. I can probably afford
to redo the whole thing, but do not necessarily feel the need to do
that. I kind of like to use things up and recycle etc.

[William]

A 'brifter' is a shifter that is part of the brake lever.  Brake-lever-shifter = Brifter.  If your brakelevers and shiftlevers are integrated into the same unit, you have brifters. 

The group might have taken you sideways into a "million dollar project" in part because your original post said:

"I want to rebuild it from the bottom up, as the

components.... were completely worn out. "

If only your drivetrain parts are worn out, and you love everything about your bike otherwise, then by all means get a new cassette the same size as you have now, get three new chainrings, and a new chain, and be happy.  100-200 in parts, plus labor, maybe get cables and housing and handlebar tape and brakepads and it will feel and look like a new bike. 

If you want to totally reconfigure your drivetrain to a double in front, there may be weight savings, but it will almost certainly be less than a pound of savings, and could easily add another $200-$500 to the project, and might force you into shifter choices that you regret if you've loved what you have been running. 

[dougP]

"The rings were the reason that I took the bike apart in the first
place, as
> they were the only parts that were really worn out.."

The odds are good that only the middle & outer ring were shot. The
little inner ones don't usually see a lot of use and it may even be
steel (mine is & has 9 yrs use). If everything else was working fine,
and doing what you need the bike to do, I'd go for a pair of rings,
new chain & cassette and not let this turn into a high dollar
effort.

As to reducing weight, saving a pound or two here'n'there on an
Atlantis won't be noticeable. The bike is built stout to take heavy
loads, so it would be tough to get it down to a sporty weight. My 58
cm tips the scales at around 26-27 lbs with no racks or bags (a rare
condition). In my standard set-up (Nitto big back rack, mini-front &
Acorn boxy bag) it's well north of 30 lbs.

dougP

> > luck, Steve- Hide quoted text -

[dr...@charter.net]

Thanks william Yes I have a brifter. I probably did say all the parts
were worn out- what I mean where the cassettes and chainrings. I was
trying to figure out how much weight I would save by changing to a
double , then I got all side tracked wondering how much better the
bike could be for not too much extra cost. One lb is not that much and
it does add a lot of cost to redo the whole thing unnecessaril.

[dr...@charter.net]

Thanks you too, this is practical advice that I am looking for. I will
decide next week about all of this, and most likely stick to my
original plan of replacing the parts that were worn out/drivetrain
instead of the whole thing. I know it is never going to be light - I
always tell people it is like riding a Cadillac.