Indian bike names

[Allan in Portland]

Perhaps this gives away my NW Indiana roots, but I gotta say Calumet would be kinda nice for a bike name. However, those who've never made steel from ore, or known someone that knew someone who did, probably wouldn't get it.

So... staying with my Indiana roots as root for good indian names, but aiming a little less esoteric, I'm not sure one could do better for a bike than Tippicanoe. It rolls off the tongue. It's fun to say. Friends and strangers alike won't be able to resist adding "and Tyler too" every time they see you with your new bike.

Regards,

-Allan

[Allan in Portland]

Ugh. Of course you'll have to put up with the repeated miss-spellings of it on the interwebs. Could give eBay and Craigslist bloodhounds something to keep themselves doubly busy with.

...shouldda been Tippecanoe

-Allan

[Stonehog]

There are a couple of Northern MN tribes that may qualify good naming.  While Fond Du Lac may be more steel friendly in that they are in the "iron range" county of Cloquet near Duluth, I prefer the Bois Forte name for its translation as "strong wood". Seems to fit the steel/leather product motif. 

http://www.indianaffairs.state.mn.us/tribes_fonddulac.html

http://www.indianaffairs.state.mn.us/tribes_boisforte.html

These pages also have great inspiration for headbadgery!

Brian Hanson

Former Minnesotan now of Seattle, WA 

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[jimD]

Given the name/trademark lawyerly things that Riv has run into with bike names, Calumet might be a problem.

When photography was based on silver halide and chemistry  I knew Calumet as a respected business 

particularly for photo accessory/widgets.

Oh I just checked they are still at it 

(http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/browse/brands/calumet).

-JimD

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[Allan in Portland]

Well, since Calumet originated as an Indian tribe and is the name of a township in NW Indiana, a river, a slew of local businesses, a photography joint in the UK, and a baking powder manufacturer, to name a few, I think they'll be OK. But I'm cooling of it regardless. ;-)

Regards,
-Allan

[robert zeidler]

Or taking a lead from GP, Arrowhead, aerohead, or some such?  Make a great headbadge.

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[Allan in Portland]

Those are nice ones. I really like Bois Forte. However, contra the Calumet example, if it's still solely associated with the tribe it may not be available.

And this is my last one (ok, no promises ;-)) if Tippecanoe is too cute sounding, may I suggest Wabash.

Terre haute (high ground),
-Allan

[Joe Bernard]

There ya go, Z-Man. I thought Arrowhead was cool, too (and sent it to Grant). It begs for a spear through the downtube decal with an arrowhead on the end. I don't think it would be too much work to tie it to the "warrior chief" headbadge G would like to use. It's too bad Chief and Scout are already taken by Indian Motorcycles, 'cause those are very cool.

 

Joe Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

[robert zeidler]

Lived right on the banks of thr Wabash for a coupla years.

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[John Price]

I'm with Robert and Joe on this one - Arrowhead or something along
those lines. I think that'd be a very cool name and a refreshing
change (in my humble opinion) from the oddball person names Rivendell
has been using of late. (Give me "Saluki" any day over "A. Homer
Hilsen" - but then I have a vested interest in that one).

John

[TSW]

Are these tribes still extant? I wonder what it'd be like for a
member of a tribe to see a bike named after his or her people. Would
it be like seeing:

"FS: 56cm Englishman"
"Anyone put Hetres on a German?"
"I really regret selling my Japanese. My new Canadian just isn't the
same."
"Stolen Egyptian"
"American vs Russian: which should I buy"

Happy Friday! :-)
ts

On Jan 6, 6:53 am, jimD <rasterd...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Given the name/trademark lawyerly things that Riv has run into with bike names, Calumet might be a problem.
> When photography was based on silver halide and chemistry  I knew Calumet as a respected business
> particularly for photo accessory/widgets.
>
> Oh I just checked they are still at it
> (http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/browse/brands/calumet).
>
> -JimD
>
> On Jan 5, 2012, at 9:19 PM, Allan in Portland wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Perhaps this gives away my NW Indiana roots, but I gotta say Calumet would be kinda nice for a bike name. However, those who've never made steel from ore, or known someone that knew someone who did, probably wouldn't get it.
>
> > So... staying with my Indiana roots as root for good indian names, but aiming a little less esoteric, I'm not sure one could do better for a bike than Tippicanoe. It rolls off the tongue. It's fun to say. Friends and strangers alike won't be able to resist adding "and Tyler too" every time they see you with your new bike.
>
> > Regards,
> > -Allan
>
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[robert zeidler]

AHH was nice, when it was just that but it's getting a bit moldy IMHO.

BTW did anybody get notified about their deposit on the new bike?

[Allan in Portland]

Each their own, of course, but improper nouns lack zip.

-Allan

[George Schick]

Well, this'll give away my own NE Indiana roots, but I'll opt for
"Little Turtle." He was Miami Tribe leader during the early settling
of the upper Midwest and figured into the French-Indian War and the
War of 1812. I especially liked him because he was clever enough to
realize that he could charge a toll for those traders needing to
portage from the Maumee River to the Wabash River in order to continue
their travels West. My second favorite would be "Tecumseh," but I
suppose that would sound too much like a lawn mower engine and would
probably initiate a copyright suit. You can read lots about either of
these two on the Web

On Jan 5, 11:19 pm, Allan in Portland <allan_f...@aracnet.com> wrote:
> Perhaps this gives away my NW Indiana roots, but I gotta say Calumet would
> be kinda nice for a bike name. However, those who've never made steel from

> ore, or known someone that knew someone who did, probably wouldn't get<http://www.google.com/search?q=calumet+indiana>it.

[EricP]

One problem as I see it with that name-
"How was the ride?"
"Arrowing."
(With apologies to Yellow Submarine.)

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Yup.  Just before Christmas.

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From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of robert zeidler
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 12:13 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Indian bike names

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[Peter Pesce]

I don't think GP will like it, but I think "Chief" would be great.

The long and laid-back nature of bike makes me think of someone who's entitled to take their time...

The back-up bars also remind me of this: http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/experience/history/pages/vintage-news.aspx

And the asymmetric seatstay braces seem to have been formed by the wind, kind of like the old motorcycles: http://www.kiwiindian.com/gallery/Vintage/index.php?image=7

Just my 2c.

-Pete

[Liesl]

On Jan 6, 11:07 am, TSW <tsesun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are these tribes still extant?  I wonder what it'd be like for a
> member of a tribe to see a bike named after his or her people.  Would
> it be like seeing:
>
> "FS: 56cm Englishman"
> "Anyone put Hetres on a German?"
> "I really regret selling my Japanese.  My new Canadian just isn't the
> same."
> "Stolen Egyptian"

> "American vs Russian: which should I buy?

This is important. I work with Native people, and appropriation of
culture by Euro-Americans without asking is just not a good thing.
Note that the University of North Dakota officially discontinued its
use of the Fighting Sioux nickname the first of the year. Sorry to
get political here, but this is such a respectful community that I
feel I should pipe up.

-liesl

[robert zeidler]

In the immortal words of Drill Sargent Hulka, "Lighten up, Frances".

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[islaysteve]

I was thinking along the same lines.  (My local football team is the Redskins, if you know what i mean...Not quite the same, No, worse).  Thanks for putting it into words with concrete experience to back them up Liesl. 

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

The Wampanoag name of the leader of the Native American Indian side in King Philip's War against the new England colonists - the bloodiest in New England history - was Metacomet.  He wasn't the most admirable character, according to conventional history, but he did fight to the death in a losing cause.  And Metacomet sure seems like a great name for a bike!

On Jan 6, 2012, at 5:36 PM, "islaysteve" <alki...@verizon.net> wrote:

I was thinking along the same lines.  (My local football team is the Redskins, if you know what i mean...Not quite the same, No, worse).  Thanks for putting it into words with concrete experience to back them up Liesl. 

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[Joe Bernard]

My 2 cents is..I think Native-American traditions and names and such are very cool, and worthy of honor on a bicycle. I hope Grant doesn't get spooked out of it by people claiming he's disrespecting them in some way. Last I heard, stars 'n' stripes motifs on bikes was considered a celebration of America. There ain't nothing more American than the first ones.

 

Joe "I'd put a deposit on an Arrowhead tomorrow" Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

[Liesl]

On Jan 6, 10:41 pm, Joe Bernard <joerem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My 2 cents is..I think Native-American traditions and names and such are
> very cool, and worthy of honor on a bicycle. I hope Grant doesn't get
> spooked out of it by people claiming he's disrespecting them in some way.
> Last I heard, stars 'n' stripes motifs on bikes was considered a
> celebration of America. There ain't nothing more American than the first
> ones.

It can be done in a good way: talk to Native people. Learn what it
means to do it in a good way. A bicycle with a given name would be
truly wonderful.
-liesl

[Leslie]

On Friday, January 6, 2012 5:19:36 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote:

This is important.  I work with Native people, and appropriation of culture by Euro-Americans without asking is just not a good thing.  Note that the University of North Dakota officially discontinued its use of the Fighting Sioux nickname the first of the year.  Sorry to get political here, but this is such a respectful community that I feel I should pipe up.
-liesl

Excellent point, with which I used to agree.  And, not that I completely disagree with it now, but my thoughts have evolved.   (I hesitate to say, but think I can respectfully do this, and it does relate, given GP's consideration of 'an Indian name'.) So, I'll give it a try...

The community I grew up in near here is called Indian Springs (not the one north of Las Vegas); there were springs that the Cherokee used nearby, along the 'Great Warriors Path' (predecessor of the Stage Coach road, an extension of the Fincastle road, that became part of Boone's Wilderness road).  My elementary school's mascot was, to no surprise, the 'Redskins'.  When I was a kid, we'd play cowboys and Indians, and it wasn't a bad thing to be an Indian.   When my father was a boy, he used to hunt for arrowheads along the stream near a known encampment site, that's a couple of miles upstream from where that creek flows past my house. We grew up with a romantic notion of what the 'noble savage' represented.  Today, my son's school's mascot is 'the Indians', and the middle school he was in that feeds into it, are also the 'Redskins'. It's a big part of the early history here. 

It wasn't meant to be disrespectful.  Over half of the placenames in the United States come from Native American names.  The word 'Indian' itself is being replaced with 'Native American', for the sake of political correctness.  

All of my ancestors have been in East Tennessee, southwestern Virginia, or western North Carolina since 1800; all were in North America prior to 1776, but some where still on the Chesapeake, or elsewhere on the east coast, at that time.  Of those that I've traced back across the Atlantic, I'm predominantly English/Scots-Irish/Welsh, with one originating from Switzerland.  The one variant:  my paternal grandmother's great-grandmother's mom, and her husband's mom, were Cherokee, part of the ones that remained hidden here when the Trail of Tears occurred; however, they remained away from what became the Eastern Band, and thus aren't on the Dawes rolls.

Where I live, there aren't a large number of African-Americans, not as you have elsewhere in the country. There was one black student who was a senior when I was a freshman, and there was a freshman when I was a senior, but I never knew either of them.  However, there are plenty of people around here who are racists.  I really didn't know anyone who wasn't like me, a 'WASP', when I was growing up, and was actually afraid that, as odd as this might sound, that I might be a racist and not know it, at that point.  I went to Parris Island, wide-eyed and apprehensive; and that was where I first got to really know some guys that were black... and they were great fellows. I was actually relieved, and felt foolish for having felt as I did. But later on in infantry school, I met a couple of them weren't.  But the twist was, they presumed I was racist because I was a southern white boy, and thought I was out to get them;  the table was turned. However, there were plenty of other people who were great, too, and a few others that weren't, and I had the realization: people are people, and you have to take each individual individually on their own merits.  

After that point, was when I noticed rap starting a transitioning from a 'black-only' thing to a 'whites acting as black', is how I viewed it (I'm sure I was late to this, had happened elsewhere earlier, and, long before with other genre, but, I digress).  I frowned on such, not as a anti-African-American thing, but, that, other whites were being disrespectful of 'black culture', because they weren't reserving it for them.   I viewed it as, it was wrong for me to be part of that, of being a white guy listening to rap, not out of hate, but because I would be taking something from them.  [I can't say that I necessarily could have articulated that at that point, it wasn't a conscious philosophy, just my retrospective view of myself at that time.]

But finally it dawned on me at some point along the way, that my view of that, was actually a form of segregation.  Not an active, but a passive variety. And not only that, but by allowing, even a passive, segregation, to continue, it could inadvertently allow (not necessarily for myself, but for 'people in general), a fertile ground to nurture an underlying racism, by having that segregation keep an understanding of other cultures from developing.  If you're a part of it, you're not going to throw stones at yourself; but if you're separate from it, it's more likely that you could.

School teaches different things at different times, as society's perspectives change.  Used to, the Native Americans were portrayed as simple savages.  But at some point, they became the 'noble savage'.  The high-school level history began to teach you about 'European domination' coming in and shoving them out of the way.  But when you start to get a bit deeper in history, and look at the relationships that had developed among the tribes, the picture is so much more complicated.  The Five Nations, the Iroquois were the top of the food-chain in the east.  The Cherokee were actually a subset, had been displaced, and taken over the Yuchi's turf.  The Shawnee had also been displaced, multiple times, and would go on hunting parties, to hunt Cherokee.   We were taught that Indians didn't have a concept of land ownership, which isn't really true... they knew who's turf was who, and they would knowing sell another tribe's turf to the whites, as a way to get back at the other tribes.  [I'm simplifying, but, I'm trying to get to my point.]

The other night, I watched 'the Eagle'.  If you've not seen it, it's about a Roman centurion hero in Britian, who takes his Brigantine slave north of Hadrian's Wall to recover a gold eagle that was lost when his father's regiment vanished.  You see the interaction of the Roman invaders with the native Bretons; you see the highlanders; you see the 'seal people' who are reminiscent of Native Americans.  Throughout the movie, I was wanting to root for the Roman, but kind of had a 'politically correct' notion that I should root for the Celts, or the Picts, as if we were talking about the English doing the Native Americans wrong.   But, I realize:  I'm a product of all of those.   The Celts, the Norse, the Romans, the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, the Normans.   But not only them, but the Gauls, and even the Cherokee.    We just celebrated Christmas, but I realize decorating a tree and mistletoe are appropriated from Yule;  but, I'm descended from both sides of that.    Here, local rednecks like to wave a Rebel flag and claim it's not racism, and then there are historical people who explain that it was states' rights and not racism, but regardless, they're taking sides.   But, my great-grandparents: his father, fought for the North, his brother, the South.  His father-in-law, the South.  I'm on both sides of the argument.  And by being on both sides, instead of taking sides, I can see reason, and fault, with both sides. 

My elementary school's mascot was the Redskins.  That's now a part of my culture.  By taking it from me, and saying only someone 'who is more Native American than me' has a right to it, is a form of racism.  Not in a, lynching, format, but in a way that is allowed to be tolerated in the name of 'being politically correct'. 

Our vision of history of chivalrous knights having tournaments is in large part fiction, but held to be a nostalgic time when you could ride in and save a lady; the same story told in the West, with gunslingers... sure, some people were shot, but, the 'Old West' 's reality was different from our nostalgic remembrance of it that Hollywood gave us.  Maybe the nostalgia isn't for the Old West, but the mental image that we remember thinking it was when we were kids.  When it was okay to be the Redskins, and schools weren't threatened with lawsuits or accused of evil for having an Indian in a Sioux headdress for a logo.  

I see having those bits of things pulled in, as part of an acceptance of, of them being a part of me, uniting us, instead of dividing us.   I'm not condoning a lot of the practices that did occur during Westward Expansion, and I wouldn't want anyone to mistakenly think I was condoning slavery of a race; but I think that we as Americans have at least recognized a lot of that and have, even if not head-on but obliquely, addressed much of it. 

SO, no, I don't think that Native Americans should be offended by such imagery's usage.  I'm sure that there are plenty of Native Americans who would disagree with that, but, I would ask them to consider if that would not be a form of self-segregation.    I don't expect anyone to feel like they have to change their minds to agree with me if they differ on this opinion, I can agree to disagree and continue on in friendship; but, I wanted to give pause to the thought that in the name of 'political correctness', that it would be bad to have an Indian name. 

Nancy Ward, Dragging Canoe, Chief Benge, Chief Logan.... can't say they're good names for a bike, but, I'm sure that there are some names that are great.  Geronimo might be overused.... Cochise was a strong warrior leader;   Apache is a name I like, or Commanche...      I'd like one of those as well or better than Rambouillet.... 

Solely my opinion, for what it's worth, no offense meant....

-L

[newenglandbike]

I went to college in a town called Amherst-  as awful a name, due to its history, as any word or name that has been appropriated from Native American language.    But it's just a name, and better that it be used and not forgotten by the general public than otherwise.   

[Bill Carter]

I'm surprised no one in this discussion has mentioned one of Grant's
favorite literary characters, Hiawatha.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Grant did in the original Blug post.

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[Leslie]

What did I post last night?!?!

My apologies! I get to thinking, then writing, and don't stop.... I start to build foundations of points, and never return to finish them...

I'll refrain from late-night postings, and put such on a blog somewhere instead...

Hope I didn't upset anyone.

-L

[Bill Carter]

Thanks for pointing that out, I'd missed it. I doubt he'd use the
name "Hiawatha" itself out of consideration for Jim Thill, but it
sounds like he may be playing with the idea of using one out of the
Longfellow work. It would certainly go along with the use of
"Rivendell" and various product names drawn from Tolkien's books. In
fact, I named one of my children using a Tolkien place name, and that
was several years before the founding of RBW, so I was not influenced
by Grant in doing so. But then everyone knows what they say about
great minds.

On Jan 7, 9:42 am, "Allingham II, Thomas J"

<Thomas.Alling...@skadden.com> wrote:
> Grant did in the original Blug post.
>

> ===========================================================================­===- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

"Never apologize, and never explain. It's a sign of weakness." I found your post thought-provoking.

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[Marty]

If the kids' bike re-surfaces, I think Minnehaha sounds about right because kids fall a lot. (OK - so you have to be from Minneapolis to get that one.) 

Marty

[Peter Morgano]

How about more animal names equus? Cimarron?

On Jan 6, 2012 10:03 PM, "Allingham II, Thomas J" <Thomas.A...@skadden.com> wrote:

[PATRICK MOORE]

The southeast has some of the most beautiful Indian names: Chattahoochee, Amicalola, Hiawassee, Tallulah, Waleska. Monongahela from Pennsylvania -- not to mention Allegheny and Appalachia. 

Nazlini, Kayenta, Chilchinbito,  Teec nos poz, To'Hajiilee (with the Navajo glottal stop), Tohatchi, Dennehotso from the Navajo Nation, not to mention pueblo names like Taos, Sandia, Acoma, Zuni, Zia, Cochiti, Jemez (Spanish pronunciation), Kewa, Laguna.

Rivendell needs to come out with its own Muttonmaster bicycle (qv -- interesting story): http://www.thursdaybicycles.com/bicycle_frames/sheep_herding.html

Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

[William]

Leaving aside the political considerations and treating names of bikes as just names of bikes, for some reason I find super long bicycle names endearing.  Kona named a cruiser after the tiny fish "humuhumunukunukuapua'a".  The Native American placename to fill that spot is clear:

"Touch not a g!" No impious hand
Shall wrest one from that noble name
Fifteen in all their glory stand
And ever shall the same.
For never shall that number down,
Tho Gogg and Magogg shout and thunder;
Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg's renown
Shall blaze, the beacon of the town,
While nations gaze and wonder.^"

[hobie]

Don't some native american tribes now own gambling casinos? They sure sell alot of cigarettes. "If you can't lickem you might as well join em". I'd stick to animal names. Saluki was a great name. Check out the great Youtube videos of these dogs running. We all know how well GPs bikes ride. A word that describes the ride on one of his bikes works for me. Animals are not opinionated or judgemental. The "Washington Redskins" has never sat well with native americans,or the malt liquor named after a Native American.   

[jimD]

I enjoyed reading it.
Plus it did have some ostensible Riv linkage
If you start a blog I'll subscribe.
-JimD

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[jimD]

Enough great names to support another decade of Rivendell innovation!

[George Schick]

"...I'd stick to animal names. Saluki was a great name..."

Hey, hey, hey! Can it be my little Havanese? His name is Kozmo.

[Joe Bernard]

I kinda doubt anyone considers "Redskins" an appropriate moniker these days - which G mentioned - so to relate it to the topic of Indian names he might use is a little silly. Correlating names to cigarette sales is a bit much, also.

[grant]

Ask any living relatives--I wanted to BE an Indian when I was a kid.
Read all about them, was one for Halloween a lot. Know they got super
shafted. Don't feel personally responsible for that, but am no less
ashamed on behalf of us anybodys for it for being out of the loop.
Still like Rosco Bubbe, Bosco Rubbe....but last night at about 11:10
as I was about to turn off, ZING came a good name over the ethernet,
and I can't say what it is, but the guy who suggested it has been
thanked and privately acknowledged, and usually I don't run names by
too many Rivemps, but this one I did--kinda because I couldn't contain
myself and wanted to share it---and so far, Keven and Elizabeth are
gung ho 'bout it.

The frame/bike itself is the real critical thing, and I've got three
things up in the air about that, but I think we have a good name. It
is....Indianesque. Not recognizable as Indian at all, unless you
already know. I didn't, and I'd have gobbled it up even if were far
from Indiany. Long and interesting. Easy to pronounce, hard to
mispronounce. Fitting for a bicycle (that's never mattered before,
although Saluki was, too). I'm not trying to fan the flames, not
playing tricks of any sort. Just reporting that there's a name out
there that I bet........every one of you (yes, pal Liesl, justifiably
famed Riv Chica Warrior (uh-oh!) included) will like. Seriously, a
real goody.

[robert zeidler]

-1

[Liesl]

" Just reporting that there's a name out there that I bet........every
one of you (yes, pal Liesl, justifiably famed Riv Chica Warrior (uh-
oh!) included) will like. Seriously, a real goody."

I have great trust and can't wait.
-Riv Chica Warrior

[Liesl]

for the name, that is!
-liesl

[Joe Bernard]

Ya know, Riv Chica Warrior would be a GREAT mixte..

[Philip Williamson]

I'm rooting for "King Philip's War" as a bike name.

[Peter Pesce]

How bout "Last of the Mohican's"?

[Frank]

"Elmer Templeton"? Is that it? I'm guessing there's an Oregon Trail-Ezra Meeker tie-in of some sort given the ethotic (that should be a word) confluence of the RB bike and the native regional influence. And since you guys already passed on the whole Modoc / Kintpuash (Captain Jack) bit, it must be "Elmer Templeton". Time will tell.

[Jeremy Till]

Looking forward to the name as well. I have faith in Grant et al to come up with a good one...but I have to say, it does seem like they've been boxing with one hand tied behind their back since they can't use Middle Earth names anymore.  Quickbeam, Legolas, Bombadil--not to mention Baggins bags--those were my favorite. 

However, I also wanted to say that I was with Liesl and TS in feeling a little bit uncomfortable with some kind essentialized "Indian" model name (not that that was necessarily the direction things were headed, but the possibility existed).  I would say that the best way to do it would be to research the peoples native to Rivendell's stomping grounds; maybe use one of the native names for Mt. Diablo, to pay tribute to the terrain that has shaped Rivendell bikes for years. 

[Geoff]

Hi Jeremy,

Your quote(partial): " I would say that the best way to do it would be to research the peoples native to Rivendell's stomping grounds; maybe use one of the native names for Mt. Diablo, to pay tribute to the terrain that has shaped Rivendell bikes for years."

Just mho, but I think that's a great idea.  Apparently, there were quite a few local tribes that lived in the area now known as East Contra Costa County and Mount Diablo.  Amongst them were the Ohlone, Miwoks, and Yokuts, just to name a few.

  

[Bill Carter]

I agree with Jeremy and Geoff. This has been one of the more
interesting discussions on the forum in quite a while, but Jeremy's
suggestion is the best of the bunch. I hope Riv will at least
consider looking into it. As Patrick mentions, there are many
beautiful Native American tribal names and place names in use here in
the southeast where I live, but it only makes sense to look into those
closer to RBW territory.

[Scotty]

Abiaka- Seminole Indian medicine man

 

 

Though his exploits were not as well publicized, Seminole medicine man Abiaka may have been more important to the internal Seminole war machine than Osceola. Abiaka was a powerful spiritual leader who used his "medicine" to stir Seminole warriors into a frenzy. His genius directed Seminole gains in several battles, including the 1837 ambush now known as the Battle of Okeechobee.

[robert zeidler]

OK timeout. Please, no historically accurate, or relevant ir politically correct names. It's not an office building. It's a bicycle.

How 'bout Big Wampum, or Forked Tongue.

It's about fun, yes?

On Monday, January 9, 2012, Scotty <bong...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Abiaka- Seminole Indian medicine man
>  
>  
> Though his exploits were not as well publicized, Seminole medicine man Abiaka may have been more important to the internal Seminole war machine than Osceola. Abiaka was a powerful spiritual leader who used his "medicine" to stir Seminole warriors into a frenzy. His genius directed Seminole gains in several battles, including the 1837 ambush now known as the Battle of Okeechobee.
>

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[Bertin753]

Well said!

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Da54Ch8-7g6I&v=a54Ch8-7g6I&gl=US

Patrick Moore

Typed with two thumbs on my

iPhone

[TSW]

These lands were once part of Spanish America- lots of hispanic names
available too. I think individuals, or dogs, can be filled with fewer
landmines.

The whole Middle Earth thing is an interesting path (that got the
kabash from the Tolkien Estate), for as anyone who's pored over the
Readers know, RBW was named after Rivendell Mtnworks. He was paying
homage not so much to JRR but to the founder of RMW whose quality,
attention to detail and plain ol' goodness he hoped to emulate, he
wrote.

[ascpgh]

To make both an American citation and recognize cycling prowness of
Eddy Merckx I suggest the Alferd Packer, a Roadeo sequelae.

ANDY
Pittsburgh


On Jan 7, 12:25 am, Leslie <leslie.bri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, January 6, 2012 5:19:36 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote:
>
> > This is important.  I work with Native people, and appropriation of
> > culture by Euro-Americans without asking is just not a good thing.  Note
> > that the University of North Dakota officially discontinued its use of the
> > Fighting Sioux nickname the first of the year.  Sorry to get political
> > here, but this is such a respectful community that I feel I should pipe up.
> > -liesl
>
> Excellent point, with which I used to agree.  And, not that I completely
> disagree with it now, but my thoughts have evolved.   (I hesitate to say,
> but think I can respectfully do this, and it does relate, given GP's
> consideration of 'an Indian name'.) So, I'll give it a try...
>
> The community I grew up in near here is called Indian Springs (not the one
> north of Las Vegas); there were springs that the Cherokee used nearby,
> along the 'Great Warriors Path' (predecessor of the Stage Coach road, an
> extension of the Fincastle road, that became part of Boone's Wilderness
> road).  My elementary school's mascot was, to no surprise, the 'Redskins'.
> When I was a kid, we'd play cowboys and Indians, and it wasn't a bad thing
> to be an Indian.   When my father was a boy, he used to hunt for arrowheads
> along the stream near a known encampment site, that's a couple of miles
> upstream from where that creek flows past my house. We grew up with a
> romantic notion of what the 'noble savage' represented.  Today, my son's
> school's mascot is 'the Indians', and the middle school he was in that
> feeds into it, are also the 'Redskins'. It's a big part of the early
> history here.
>
> It wasn't meant to be disrespectful.  Over half of the placenames in the
> United States come from Native American names.  The word 'Indian' itself is
> being replaced with 'Native American', for the sake of political
> correctness.
>
> All of my ancestors have been in East Tennessee, southwestern Virginia, or
> western North Carolina since 1800; all were in North America prior to 1776,
> but some where still on the Chesapeake, or elsewhere on the east coast, at
> that time.  Of those that I've traced back across the Atlantic, I'm
> predominantly English/Scots-Irish/Welsh, with one originating from
> Switzerland.  The one variant:  my paternal grandmother's
> great-grandmother's mom, and her husband's mom, were Cherokee, part of the
> ones that remained hidden here when the Trail of Tears occurred; however,
> they remained away from what became the Eastern Band, and thus aren't on
> the Dawes rolls.
>
> Where I live, there aren't a large number of African-Americans, not as you
> have elsewhere in the country. There was one black student who was a senior
> when I was a freshman, and there was a freshman when I was a senior, but I
> never knew either of them.  However, there are plenty of people around here
> who are racists.  I really didn't know anyone who wasn't like me, a 'WASP',
> when I was growing up, and was actually afraid that, as odd as this might
> sound, that I might be a racist and not know it, at that point.  I went to
> Parris Island, wide-eyed and apprehensive; and that was where I first got
> to really know some guys that were black... and they were great fellows. I
> was actually relieved, and felt foolish for having felt as I did. But later
> on in infantry school, I met a couple of them weren't.  But the twist was,
> they presumed I was racist because I was a southern white boy, and thought
> I was out to get them;  the table was turned. However, there were plenty of
> other people who were great, too, and a few others that weren't, and I had
> the realization: people are people, and you have to take each individual
> individually on their own merits.
>
> After that point, was when I noticed rap starting a transitioning from a
> 'black-only' thing to a 'whites acting as black', is how I viewed it (I'm
> sure I was late to this, had happened elsewhere earlier, and, long before
> with other genre, but, I digress).  I frowned on such, not as a
> anti-African-American thing, but, that, other whites were being
> disrespectful of 'black culture', because they weren't reserving it for
> them.   I viewed it as, it was wrong for me to be part of that, of being a
> white guy listening to rap, not out of hate, but because I would be taking
> something from them.  [I can't say that I necessarily could have
> articulated that at that point, it wasn't a conscious philosophy, just my
> retrospective view of myself at that time.]
>
> But finally it dawned on me at some point along the way, that my view of
> that, was actually a form of segregation.  Not an active, but a passive
> variety. And not only that, but by allowing, even a passive, segregation,
> to continue, it could inadvertently allow (not necessarily for myself, but
> for 'people in general), a fertile ground to nurture an underlying racism,
> by having that segregation keep an understanding of other cultures from
> developing.  If you're a part of it, you're not going to throw stones at
> yourself; but if you're separate from it, it's more likely that you could.
>
> School teaches different things at different times, as society's
> perspectives change.  Used to, the Native Americans were portrayed as
> simple savages.  But at some point, they became the 'noble savage'.  The
> high-school level history began to teach you about 'European domination'
> coming in and shoving them out of the way.  But when you start to get a bit
> deeper in history, and look at the relationships that had developed among
> the tribes, the picture is so much more complicated.  The Five Nations, the
> Iroquois were the top of the food-chain in the east.  The Cherokee were
> actually a subset, had been displaced, and taken over the Yuchi's turf.
> The Shawnee had also been displaced, multiple times, and would go on
> hunting parties, to hunt Cherokee.   We were taught that Indians didn't
> have a concept of land ownership, which isn't really true... they knew
> who's turf was who, and they would knowing sell another tribe's turf to the
> whites, as a way to get back at the other tribes.  [I'm simplifying, but,
> I'm trying to get to my point.]
>
> The other night, I watched 'the Eagle'.  If you've not seen it, it's about
> a Roman centurion hero in Britian, who takes his Brigantine slave north of
> Hadrian's Wall to recover a gold eagle that was lost when his father's
> regiment vanished.  You see the interaction of the Roman invaders with the
> native Bretons; you see the highlanders; you see the 'seal people' who are
> reminiscent of Native Americans.  Throughout the movie, I was wanting to
> root for the Roman, but kind of had a 'politically correct' notion that I
> should root for the Celts, or the Picts, as if we were talking about the
> English doing the Native Americans wrong.   But, I realize:  I'm a product
> of all of those.   The Celts, the Norse, the Romans, the Angles, Saxons and
> Jutes, the Normans.   But not only them, but the Gauls, and even the
> Cherokee.    We just celebrated Christmas, but I realize decorating a tree
> and mistletoe are appropriated from Yule;  but, I'm descended from both
> sides of that.    Here, local rednecks like to wave a Rebel flag and claim
> it's not racism, and then there are historical people who explain that it
> was states' rights and not racism, but regardless, they're taking sides.
> But, my great-grandparents: his father, fought for the North, his brother,
> the South.  His father-in-law, the South.  I'm on both sides of the
> argument.  And by being on both sides, instead of taking sides, I can see
> reason, and fault, with both sides.
>
> My elementary school's mascot was the Redskins.  That's now a part of my
> culture.  By taking it from me, and saying only someone 'who is more Native
> American than me' has a right to it, is a form of racism.  Not in a,
> lynching, format, but in a way that is allowed to be tolerated in the name
> of 'being politically correct'.
>
> Our vision of history of chivalrous knights having tournaments is in large
> part fiction, but held to be a nostalgic time when you could ride in and
> save a lady; the same story told in the West, with gunslingers... sure,
> some people were shot, but, the 'Old West' 's reality was different from
> our nostalgic remembrance of it that Hollywood gave us.  Maybe the
> nostalgia isn't for the Old West, but the mental image that we remember
> thinking it was when we were kids.  When it was okay to be the Redskins,
> and schools weren't threatened with lawsuits or accused of evil for having
> an Indian in a Sioux headdress for a logo.
>
> I see having those bits of things pulled in, as part of an acceptance of,
> of them being a part of me, uniting us, instead of dividing us.   I'm not
> condoning a lot of the practices that did occur during Westward Expansion,
> and I wouldn't want anyone to mistakenly think I was condoning slavery of a
> race; but I think that we as Americans have at least recognized a lot of
> that and have, even if not head-on but obliquely, addressed much of it.
>
> SO, no, I don't think that Native Americans should be offended by such
> imagery's usage.  I'm sure that there are plenty of Native Americans who
> would disagree with that, but, I would ask them to consider if that would
> not be a form of self-segregation.    I don't expect anyone to feel like
> they have to change their minds to agree with me if they differ on this
> opinion, I can agree to disagree and continue on in friendship; but, I
> wanted to give pause to the thought that in the name of 'political
> correctness', that it would be bad to have an Indian name.
>
> Nancy Ward, Dragging Canoe, Chief Benge, Chief Logan.... can't say they're
> good names for a bike, but, I'm sure that there are some names that are
> great.  Geronimo might be overused.... Cochise was a strong warrior
> leader;   Apache is a name I like, or Commanche...      I'd like one of
> those as well or better than Rambouillet....
>
> Solely my opinion, for what it's worth, no offense meant....
>
> -L

[Joe Bernard]

On a barely related not, can y'all confirm that the new bike is 650b? I can't remember.

[Geoff]

Jeremy Till's quote(partial): " I would say that the best way to do it would be to research the peoples native to Rivendell's stomping grounds; maybe use one of the native names for Mt. Diablo, to pay tribute to the terrain that has shaped Rivendell bikes for years."

Just mho, but I think Jeremy's idea is a really good one.  In that spirit, I looked a bit on the internet and found some names that a few of our regional tribes gave to what is now known as Mount Diablo.-

The Ohlone called the mountain "Tuyshtak", meaning 'at the day'.

The Nisenan called it "Sukkú Jaman", meaning 'the place where dogs came from in trade'(?).

The Miwok(earliest inhabitants of the Mt. Diablo area) called it "Oj-ompil-e" or "Ojompile"(pronounced "OJ-om-Pee-lay").  No listing of meaning/translation, but some researchers have stated that the Miwok considered it a sacred mountain.

Here's a link to one of the source articles: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Mount-Diablo-State-Park

I like the sound of "Sukkú Jaman" and the way it rolls off the tongue, but I also like "Oj-ompil-e", mostly because it came from the native people known to be Mt. Diablo's earliest inhabitants.  Very cool.

[robert zeidler]

Please guys I'm begging you, stop the madness. Wait until they build a library or a new high school mascot is needed.
I'm considering purchasing the naming rights to this bike and calling it something like "Rockin' Bitchin' Bike". Or maybe "Freight Truck". My attorney should be in touch with the Riv folks as we speak. And with those funds, the lugs can be made extra fancy. I've even managed to find a NOS run of those squared off "slicks" from Cheng Shin in 26" and will suggest their use to GP. That would rock, no?  You wouldn't see many like that out there.
Waddya think?

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[William]

Hate to see a grown man beg.  Since you ponied up the 'wampum' for an early copy, my wish for you is that the name it ends up bearing does not tread on one of the forbidden categories.  Even if you hate the name, I really really hope you love the bike.  

[Mike B]

Jacobus Fanciscus Thorpe       I think this should put an end to further discussion.    

[Ryan Ray]

I was expressing my regret that I didn't buy a bag when they were called Baggins when he corrected me. "Actually the Sackvilles were another family in the Shire."

Ahhh. All is well.

[Bill Carter]

The Sackvilles were quite grasping and obnoxious, disliked by both
Bilbo and Frodo. One of Grant's more tongue-in-cheek allusions I
suspect.

[Bill Carter]

Too bad about the LOTR restriction, by the way. Wouldn't "Shadowfax"
be a terrific bike name? Lord of the horses of Rohan and Gandalf the
White's noble steed.

> > Ahhh. All is well.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Leslie]

On Friday, January 13, 2012 7:54:54 PM UTC-5, Bill Carter wrote:

Too bad about the LOTR restriction, by the way. Wouldn't "Shadowfax"
be a terrific bike name?  Lord of the horses of Rohan and Gandalf the
White's noble steed.

On Jan 13, 7:46 pm, Bill Carter <billc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Sackvilles were quite grasping and obnoxious, disliked by both
> Bilbo and Frodo.  One of Grant's more tongue-in-cheek allusions I
> suspect.
>
> On Jan 12, 11:55 am, Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I was expressing my regret that I didn't buy a bag when they were called
> > Baggins when he corrected me. "Actually the Sackvilles were another family
> > in the Shire."

The Sackville-Bagginses, Lotho and his mother Lobelia... Actually, kinda funny, I cringe at the name Sackville...  I shouldn't, they're lovely bags, but I've been a huge LotR fan all my life, has always had a bad connotation...  But on the other hand, it's a way to reference the Bagginses without calling them Bagginses, I suppose...

Trying to stick w/ obscure LotR names that might not bring down the wrath of corporations and movie makers, I might've picked Michael Delving to use instead the name Nigel Smythe.   I also thought Mumakil would have been a great name for the Hunqapillar. 

-L 
 

[Tim McNamara]

Old Fatty Lumpkin- somewhat obscure- was paid tribute as well as Tom Bombadil. I enjoyed the Fatty Lumpkin allusion a lot.

"Mathom" might be a good name for something. "Mallyrn" (or "mallorn" in the Westron) could be a color choice, perhaps for a rain poncho.

[Philip Williamson]

Excellent thought. More famous than Quickbeam, so probably off the
table. I think of Mark Abele's grey Rivendells when I think of a bike
called "Shadowfax."

Philip

Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com

[Peter Morgano]

Ok, I am coming into this late but why the LOTR restrictions?  If that was the case why dont they have to pay huge money to use the name rivendell?  I am sure there is a story I am just ignorant of. Oh and shame Smoothie is taken by SOMA, that would have been a shweet name for the bike.

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[robert zeidler]

And where, sir, is your exhaustive research to support your name choice?

On Thursday, January 12, 2012, Mike B <boura...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jacobus Fanciscus Thorpe       I think this should put an end to further discussion.    
>

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[robert zeidler]

The name Rivendell was not copyrighted.