Was your RIV sizing right on?

[lungimsam]

Hello All,

When you got your Riv's, how was their sizing recommendation for you?

I am planning on getting a RIV sometime, and was wondering if I should
go by what they recommend (I hear usually larger), or go with my gut
(smaller).

What's your advice?

[Seth Vidal]

Listen to riv.

Your gut is wrong. They know their bikes.

-sv

[cyclotourist]

Spot on.

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Redlands, CA

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[Brian Hanson]

Agreed - I would go with their recommendation. I'm on a 59cm AHH, and could have easily gone 61cm.  May try to change up someday when I get sick of the color :)

Brian

Seattle, WA

[charlie]

I'd listen to them, my 60cm SimpleOne fits perfectly. I just ordered a
56cm Sam Hillborne...also their size recommendation for my pubic bone
height with that particular frame. Each of their models are different
due to various geometry differences so you should listen to them. Call
them and explain why your gut is telling you something different and
perhaps they can shed some light on the subject.

[Smitty]

They won't steer you wrong. 

[Dave]

I'm eternally grateful for the PBH method of sizing a Riv. I'm only
5'7", but my PBH of 84.5 cm put me on a 58 cm Ram. My gut would have
said 56 cm MAX, but it was wrong. If you asked me, I'd always say "go
bigger". Pay attention to your mathematical top tube length; despite
what most of us learned about frame height, that TT length is more
significant than stand over clearance. You can adjust seat setback and
stem length and height much easier than frame size. Grant is spot on:
Most shops and riders tend toward frames that are too small, with the
assumption that you can always jack up the seatpost or get a longer
stem, but that isn't good fit. Get the biggest frame your physique will
sensibly fit.

You have a MUCH better chance of a good fit this way than going too
small. Your first long ride will prove it.

[Michael Hechmer]

When I got my Rambouillet I was at the top of their 62 and bottom of their 64 range.  I went with the 62 and have been perfectly satisfied with it.  I like my HBs about 2 cm below the saddle, so that may have influenced my preferences.

Michael

[RJM]

They did me well when I bought my Sam Hillborne.  It fits great.  One thing is that their sizing number is different for each model, so you may be a 48 on the Sam and a 52 for a Homer, ect.  Just a guess on those numbers though.  I would go with their recommendations but make sure your PBH is correctly measured.

[tdusky]

I got a custom 63cm Long Low 11 years ago from Rivendell built for someone else, that fit perfect. 4 years ago I bought an Atlantis, they only come in 61 and 63. I spoke with 2 people at Rivendell including Grant and they both suggested I go with the 61. Well the bike always felt small and crowded.  I found some to trade with last year, so now I have the 64. I am really surprised how much better I like the the 64, it even feels faster. So the folks at Rivendell aren't always right, sometimes they suggest too small of a bike.

Tom Dusky

Huntington Woods, MI

On Wednesday, May 2, 2012 2:28:55 AM UTC-4, lungimsam wrote:

[Mojo]

Riv sizing fit me perfectly & changed the way I thought about bike fit

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 05:32 -0700, tdusky wrote:
> I got a custom 63cm Long Low 11 years ago from Rivendell built for
> someone else, that fit perfect. 4 years ago I bought an Atlantis, they
> only come in 61 and 63. I spoke with 2 people at Rivendell including
> Grant and they both suggested I go with the 61. Well the bike always
> felt small and crowded. I found some to trade with last year, so now
> I have the 64. I am really surprised how much better I like the the
> 64, it even feels faster. So the folks at Rivendell aren't always
> right, sometimes they suggest too small of a bike.

And there have been plenty of Riv frames sold because people found the
frames to be too large, too. I think in many cases the problem arises
from the 2 cm step in sizing between frames. There's a LOT of
difference between a 58 and a 60 cm frame, and if you really need a 59
then you have to choose between too small and too large.

[CCX]

I would listen to Rivendell.  I made the mistake of getting my first Rivendell on the small side against their recommendation.  A couple of years later I ordered the larger frame and have been a whole lot happier with it.  I blame it on me having a Fit Kit certification and 10 years experience selling bikes to people that were in all honestly too small for them in retrospect.  I cringe every time I walk into a shop and see some 6 foot bloke being fitted on a 19 inch mtn bike or a 59 cm road bike.

I am pretty sure I recall an article by Maynard Hershon stating that he to should have gotten a larger bike.

[Peter Morgano]

I would also say that you have to consider where/what purpose you will do the majority of your riding. I went one size down from what Riv recommended so I could sit more upright since I do most of my riding in NYC and I also need to be able to quickly dismount onto the top tube without worrying about the boys getting a good smack. If I was living in a more rural setting I probably would have gone with "big riv" sizing though. Just my 2 cents.

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[clyde canter]

Me too.  The chart in the brochure had my 91cm  PBH said I could fit a 62 or a 64. I like my bars

(drops on my Ram)  above saddle height and in the last 6 years have raised them even more. I went with the 64 and have been very happy with it.

Handle bar preference plays into this too.  I like a shorter reach for moustach bars, so a 62 might have been a tad better choice had I went that way.  I really like the moustach bars on fixed gear bikes, so my 62 Quickbeam was a better choice (IMO) than than a 64.  YMMV and I'm sure Riv HQ would correctly advise you in all matters, they know their stuff.

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[charlie]

I've noticed that as I am getting older and lighter my bicycle fit is
a little different than it was ten years ago. I also prefer a shorter
top tube with mustache bars but usually end up with drops for two
reasons....versatility and the way a certain mirror I use fits. I
think Rivendell has refined their fit knowledge over the years and are
probably using some of the feedback customers have been giving them.
Things may have changed a little since they started and as their
customer base has grown. I think however that their basic approach of
comfort over speed and 'big Riv sizing' as opposed to 'racer fit' has
always been a focus at least that's my take on it.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Bike fitting is a sum of imperfect compromises. Contrary to popular belief, there is no "perfect" frame size. But not to worry: stems and seatposts are adjustable. You may run afoul of the fashion police if your seatpost sticks out 1.7 cm farther than some old French guy's seatpost stuck out in 1932, but that is a compromise you may (or may not) be willing to make.

We're all between sizes of stock frames, and the human body is plenty flexible to accommodate a cm or two either way. Riv knows this, of course, which is why they can confidently suggest a frame size over the phone. If you REALLY trust Riv and are willing to shed whatever preconceived notions you have, the frame will magically be the right size. If you can't shed preconceived notions, and Riv suggests a different size, you may always be conflicted about whether you made the right choice. The archives of this list are full of such stories. Usually Riv comes out as the frame-sizing genius when there's a dispute, but there may be some sampling bias, given the understandable Pro-Riv nature of this list.

That's a long way of saying: "it doesn't matter that much." Get the bike in either size, raise the seatpost appropriately, maybe experiment with a stem or two, and then just ride.

[newenglandbike]

I would follow Rivs advice.   FWIW I think top-tube crotch clearance fears are unfounded.    I know many disagree.    I ride bikes with ~2cm top-tube standover clearance in the woods and never have a problem even with frequent foot-downs or sudden dismounts.   Most of my riding growing up was BMX, and other than that kind of riding which is totally different, I've never had both my feet blow off the pedals and my butt fall off the saddle all at the same time, nailing my crotch-    but if that were to happen, I'd rather a shorter drop to the top tube than a longer one wherein gravity has more time to do its acceleration thing.   Also, sounds stupid but I like resting my leg on the top-tube when stopped, and when riding bikes with compact/expanding geometry I kind of miss that.     6', ~89cm pbh, and have always ridden 62-64cm frames.  Also have a 65cm touring/workhorse rig that is amazing for long distances.

-Matt

On Wednesday, May 2, 2012 2:28:55 AM UTC-4, lungimsam wrote:

[Bruce Herbitter]

I dealt with Keven and sm very happy with the dize he suggested. At 9,000 mi ridden, there has been ample time to evaluate.

Sent from my Kindle Fire

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From: lungimsam <john1...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed May 02 01:28:55 CDT 2012
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [RBW] Was your RIV sizing right on?

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[clyde canter]

 I can remember going into a bike shop in my youth (dark ages).  The owner's sizing method was simple.  According to him if  you were going to race get the smallest frame you can attain the proper saddle ht. with. I don't remember any seatposts back then being 350-400 mm long either.   If you're not going to race get the largest  frame you can straddle wearing the shoes you ride in without saying "ouch".  Made sense then and now.

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[clyde canter]

This was pre-MTB era of course.

[Zack]

Just to chime in -

I have a pbh of 93.5, and am SO glad that I went with Keven's suggestion of the 64 Sam.  I would have thought I was on the 60 for sure.  Having a bike that fits me is a revelation.

Go with what they say, they know their bikes.

On Wednesday, May 2, 2012 2:28:55 AM UTC-4, lungimsam wrote:

[cyclot...@gmail.com]

The only caveat I can think of is that their sizing method can be thrown off by short torso/short arms. Probably only applies to a small percentage of the male population, but females need to take that into account. People w/ short upper body/arms can have a problem getting the bars close enough. Doesn't really matter with Albatross type bars, but with drops you can only have so short of a stem.

On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 11:28:55 PM UTC-7, lungimsam wrote:

[Lynne Fitz]

I have a 51cm Bleriot - standover is perfect. Reach... not so much.
I can't ride it over a century without getting real neck and shoulder
issues. I have the shortest stem possible. :-)

That said, it is the best commuter/local utility bike ever. But when
I start a commute on Monday after riding one of my other bikes, the
handlebars feel like they are in the next county.

YMMV,
Lynne F

On May 3, 9:34 am, "cyclotour...@gmail.com" <cyclotour...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Horace]

Riv's sizing charts assume that you'll want your handlebars near or
above saddle height. If you're between sizes, and you prefer your bars
a lot lower than the saddle, choose the smaller size.

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[reynoldslugs]

There sizing is spot-on. Drink the kool-aid.

I have, I think, 8 Rivendell bikes. When I discovered Rivendell in
1998, I was confident I knew more about frame sizing than they did - -
but soon learned the error of my old havits. The first frame I got
was a Heron. Grant suggested a larger size, 62 or 63, and I chose the
smaller... and soon concluded I should have gone with his
recommendation.
Of my 8 frames, I followed Riv's sizing advice on all but one... and
have concluded that I should have followed their advice on that one,
too.

RL

[Calm54]

Mine was perfect, but Mark tweaked some things when I went in which
improved the ride. Thanks goes to Dave and Mark!

[Bill]

You should really be asking yourself what would the ideal size be for you, and then find the bike.  If it has to be a Riv bike, then spend the money and get the one that best fits, and not the cheapest one that barely does the job.  Sure, Riv will sell you either a 56 or 60 Sam and tell you it will be fine, but then why do they offer the Homer in 1cm increments for sizes from 54 to 59?  Size matters.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I've bought 5 frames or bikes from Rivendell, and every one of them (i) is bigger than I would have chosen on my own, and (ii) fits perfectly.  You should not abandon your own judgment, but they ought to be given a lot of deference in the sizing of their frames and bikes -- they really do know what they're talking about.

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From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of CCX
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:45 AM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Was your RIV sizing right on?

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[Minh]

While the list is not the best sample, i do notice that most requests for swaps are initated by someone looking to swap up to a larger size.  Both of my Rivs (a 56 Sam, 60cm QB) both fit fine.  i was right in the middle for the Sam and after owning it i think a 60cm may have worked (though the stem length would've been an issue).

I don't 100% agree with the statement that you are 'settling' by choosing a Sam over a Homer because of the jump in sizes, Grant would not be selling that bike if he didn't think it would work.  I feel that the Sam's just rely on the seatpost & stem a little bit more for adjustability and there's nothing wrong with that.  

Long way to say, trust Rivendell to put you on a bike that will fit, and don't be freaked out when you get it all put together by the size of the headtube or standover clearance, ride it first!  I know it might look huge. but part of why we love the Rivs is that they have a certain fit.  

If you're really uncertain put a call out for someone local to give you a test-drive, or come to one of the Riv Rallys--where most people bring Rivs but all are welcome!

[Joe K]

It's funny. I bought my first "real" bike circa 1971, the "bike boom"
days, and was sized rather tall (I don't remember my PBH, but stand
5'11"). It was a Raleigh sized in inches, 25 or 25 1/2.

In the eighties sometime I bought someone's used bike, also a Raleigh,
but only 23 or 23 1/2. Can't recall my motivation for that size, but
when an old-timer I know saw me on that bike he said, "that bike's too
small for you." Nonetheless, I rode that bike more or less happily
for at least 15 years.

After that I began considering a Rivendell custom. In addition to
sending in the Riv build questionnaire, Grant had also seen me ride in
person in the years when Riv was just getting started. So when the
frame arrived around 2001, it was a 62 (maybe 63) with a somewhat
shorter top tube. It fits me beautifully. Now I wonder how I ever
rode that smaller bike and thought I was comfortable, but the human
body is remarkably adaptable. A few years ago I also bought a beater
of similar size...it's the right size frame but will be much better
once I install a taller stem and wider bars.

Joe K

[Solomander]

I would have been happier one size down from what was recommended.  Wound up with a short stem not to be too stretched out.  IMHO, the critical dimension is top tube plus stem length.  The vertical part is easy.  YMMV.

Joel

[Scotty]

I think their sizing was spot on but I may have messed up on my PBH measurement and ended up with a bike that is a little big. I read that I should measure it a bunch of times and go with the tallest measurement so I came up with 85cm and ordered my 58 Hilsen. Now I have my bike and it feels a little big and the highest PBH I can measure now is 83. My fault not theirs. My advise, when you measure have help.

Not a huge issue, I have a riding position that works, but not allot of seat post showing and standing up the bike is a little tall, but I still love it and it works fine. I probably should have bought a 57.(I wanted 700c wheels).

 

[Toshi Takeuchi]

When I bought my used Ram frame, I was told it was a 52 cm frame,
which is what I have always bought. In any event, the standover was
about 30.5 inches, which is a bit more than the 30" I usually went
for, but I figured it would be fine.

It turns out that the frame was a 54 cm frame, and it works perfectly
for me, but I wouldn't have thought a 54 would work for me (and might
not have looked at it if I knew it was a 54 cm). I bought an AHH from
Rivendell and I was recommended a 54 cm frame, and it works great too.
I was kind of on the borderline, but after getting the bike, the 54
was definitely the right choice.

Toshi

[Esteban]

I'm sure people here know this, but its worth mentioning that Riv measures center-to-top, rather than center-to-center, which almost everyone else uses.  Sometimes, I think, people might hear that they should be on a 60cm Riv frame, which sounds ridiculous as they've always ridden 55 or 57.  But a 60cm Riv is really a 58 or 58.5cm to everyone else...

That being said, i think PBH is down to a science for Riv frames and Riv riding.  If I really wanted to hammer, I'd go toward the lower portion of my range.  If I wanted to tour, I'd go in the higher portion.  Top tube really matters, so that measurement plus stem should be in consideration, too.

[EricP]

Will agree with that assessment.  The first run of Sam Hillbornes had a slightly longer top tube than later runs.  My 56 fits me very well, but there is too much seatpost showing in a perfect world.  I have thrown my leg over a 60cm orange Hillborne and it fit perfectly.  So things can and do change.

 

My SimpleOne is a 60 and I might have been able to ride a 62 with a 7 or 8cm stem.  In the past, had also tried a 62 Quickbeam and could barely throw a leg over it, and felt totally stretched out trying to reach the bars on that bike.

 

That said, I'd trust Rivendell to put me on the correct sized bike if I asked. 

 

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

[Blindrobert]

Spot on - for two different geometries. I have an AHH and a Bombadil
- followed their advice on both and it was exactly right both times.
In fact they are more comfortable than my custom road bike. I would
also follow their advice on measuring your PBH. Take it three or four
times and average the results...and really jam that book/ruler/
whatever up there tight against the pubic bone.

[robert zeidler]

Perfect. GP know of what he speaks.

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[ascpgh]

RBW sizing of my Rambouillet was spot-on. They have no choice as a
small builder using Internet and telephone as the primary contact with
buyers but to know their designs, fit and sizing.

Bad sizing can come as easily at your LBS, they don't usually know
every frame they can source for you the way RBW knows about what they
are talking and selling.

The best advice I would offer is to be as straight up about your
actual and intended riding. If you are clear about that and the frame
in which you are interested their advice should set you up. This is no
moment for withholding your inner Walter Mitty and secret dream to
ride the Gavia and Stelvio in record times and you are shopping a
Hunqapillar.

> When you got your Riv's, how was their sizing recommendation for you?

You should be as well fit as I was. I have been getting unsolicited
compliments on how well this bike fits me for years

ANDY
Pittsburgh

[dougP]

I am in the overlap zone for the 58 & 61 cm Atlantis. Riv suggested I
go with the 61 but I'd never even ridden a bike that size so I opted
for the 58. Most perfect fit & comfortable bike I've ever ridden. I
set it up with the same seat height & handlebar relation as my old
bike, & it took about a half mile to love it. I've since done minor
fit fiddling but nothing serious.

dougP

On May 1, 11:28 pm, lungimsam <john11.2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>

> When you got your Riv's, how was their sizing recommendation for you?
>

[Rick]

I mis-measured my pbh the first go-round, but when I told Keven my pbh
and height, he advised me to remeasure, as he thought I might be a
little low on the number. He was correct, my pbh went up a bit, and
the recommended bike fits. Yes, it is a larger frame than I would
have ordered without the consultation.

[JB]

I was riding a 57" at the time I was sized. I expected to go up to a
59" but ended up with a 61" and it's perfect. They know what they're
doing.

John

[Steve Palincsar]

Surely you mean cm rather than inches...

[EricP]

He might.  Or it could mean a mythical Rivendell Tall Bike, the Ent (or maybe Finglas, if we need a specific Ent).

 

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

[James Warren]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMnpwCZIkYw

> --

[Mike]

On May 5, 8:23 am, James Warren <jimcwar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMnpwCZIkYw

Ha!