Odd New Bike (HS)

[Joe Bernard]

It exists, I am bewildered. I can't figure out the reason for the assymetrical diagatubes in the rear triangle, or what those D-shaped braze-ons are for. Discuss, people who discuss things.

 

http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/13791776081/odd-new-bike-p-2

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

D-shaped braze-ons have to be anchor points for a carrying strap -- see Grant's Atlantis in the Staph Bikes post, which has one made of what looks like rim tape.

 

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bernard
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 4:32 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Odd New Bike (HS)

It exists, I am bewildered. I can't figure out the reason for the assymetrical diagatubes in the rear triangle, or what those D-shaped braze-ons are for. Discuss, people who discuss things.

 

http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/13791776081/odd-new-bike-p-2

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[Ray Shine]

I agree about the carry strap D-rings. Grant has talked about those before. I wonder if the left chainstay middie is positioned that way to accommodate a side-mount trailer hitch?  Or, one of those heavy duty stay-mounted kickstands used for loaded tourers?

---

From: Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com>
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 5, 2011 1:31:50 PM

Subject: [RBW] Odd New Bike (HS)

It exists, I am bewildered. I can't figure out the reason for the assymetrical diagatubes in the rear triangle, or what those D-shaped braze-ons are for. Discuss, people who discuss things.

 

http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/13791776081/odd-new-bike-p-2

--

[William]

I'm not completely convinced about the carry strap being a slam dunk since the downtube thingy splits the two water bottle braze ons.  If that's what it is then you could run a strap OR a water bottle, but not both. 

I'm trying to take a clue from the horizontal rear dropout WITH a rear derailer tab.  Horizontal implies we're moving the wheel around, but the derailer tab implies we wont have to move the wheel around to take up chain slack.  I wonder...

[Horace]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 2:18 PM, William <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to take a clue from the horizontal rear dropout WITH a rear
> derailer tab.  Horizontal implies we're moving the wheel around, but the
> derailer tab implies we wont have to move the wheel around to take up chain
> slack.  I wonder...
>

I thought about this too, but it could be that the only horizontal
dropouts available for the prototype happened to have a derailleur
hanger. I noticed that there are downtube shifter bosses also. So, um,
I have no clue.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Maybe the "One Big Option" (mentioned in the original post) is derailleur or high end IGH (Rohloff or Alfine 11, both of which have sufficiently wide range to obviate need for front shifting, which the original post says the HS doesn't have); hence the seemingly contradictory horizontal drops and derailleur hanger?

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of William
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 5:19 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Odd New Bike (HS)

I'm not completely convinced about the carry strap being a slam dunk since the downtube thingy splits the two water bottle braze ons.  If that's what it is then you could run a strap OR a water bottle, but not both. 

I'm trying to take a clue from the horizontal rear dropout WITH a rear derailer tab.  Horizontal implies we're moving the wheel around, but the derailer tab implies we wont have to move the wheel around to take up chain slack.  I wonder...

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[Joe Bernard]

Actually, we see one dt shifter boss on the right side, and the "D-shaped thingy" seems to block a front derailer placement. I've been expecting an IGH bike from Rivendell..I think this is it. I assume a cassette-plus-rear-derailer option will be available. You could made that with a Schlumpf Drive for a good gear range.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

And since the gamblers get to choose IGH or derailleur (assuming that's the big option), a hanger-less dropout could be used for the IGH bikes?

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bernard

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 5:45 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Odd New Bike (HS)

Actually, we see one dt shifter boss on the right side, and the "D-shaped thingy" seems to block a front derailer placement. I've been expecting an IGH bike from Rivendell..I think this is it. I assume a cassette-plus-rear-derailer option will be available. You could made that with a Schlumpf Drive for a good gear range.

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[Joe Bernard]

The Rohloff takes a dedicated dropout. Does anyone see anything like that here?

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

You can use a torque arm on the Rohloff with a regular dropout, but I assume Grant would not use such a kludgey solution if that were the hub -- good point.  Alfine 11?

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bernard

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 5:58 PM

To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Odd New Bike (HS)

The Rohloff takes a dedicated dropout. Does anyone see anything like that here?

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[Joe Bernard]

I think an Alfine is more in line with a production IGH bike Rivendell would produce: It's more "105 level" to the Rohloff's "Dura-Ace" expensiveness.

[James Warren]

If it makes more demand for jtek to make the Alfine 11 bar-end shifter, I'm all for it. jtek says they're working on it, though. Of course, I'm getting way ahead of things here.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bernard
Sent: Dec 5, 2011 3:10 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Odd New Bike (HS)

I think an Alfine is more in line with a production IGH bike Rivendell would produce: It's more "105 level" to the Rohloff's "Dura-Ace" expensiveness.

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[EricP]

I was thinking more far afield. Sturmey Archer 3 or 5 speed with
coaster brake. Wouldn't the brake arm end up just under the left side
curvatube? So, an option between that and a 1x9 derailer option.

An aside - have run a 1x9 during the summer on a non-Riv bike.
Discovered a 39T front combined with a 12-36 rear made for a very
useful combination.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Dec 5, 7:25 pm, James Warren <jimcwar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> If it makes more demand for jtek to make the Alfine 11 bar-end shifter, I'm all for it. jtek says they're working on it, though. Of course, I'm getting way ahead of things here.
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Bernard
> Sent: Dec 5, 2011 3:10 PM
> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RBW] Odd New Bike (HS)
> I think an Alfine is more in line with a production IGH bike Rivendell would produce: It's more "105 level" to the Rohloff's "Dura-Ace" expensiveness.
>
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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I'm skeptical GP would consider the gear range of an SA 3 or SA 5 trail or touring worthy, which he says this bike is. Maybe. But the gearing Riv typically recommends for touring -- say 46-36-24 and 13-32 or 13-36 on the back -- yields a range of almost 500%; the Sturmey 3 speed is only like 160%, as I recall, and the 5 speed is maybe a little over 250%. 1 x 9 13-36 is still less than 300% -- not bad, for sure, and useful, but less then ideal for touring.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

But I just looked again at the left side diagatube. I think you're right. Gear range be damned...

-----Original Message-----
From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of EricP
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 8:47 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch

[David T.]

Couldn’t it be a choice between single speed and cassette?

 

Whatever it is, it is a great looking frame.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Grant has voiced opposition to IGHs before, and nothing about this suggests this will be a dedicated IGH bike. This one appears to lack the Rohloff OEM mount, as well as the ISCG tab for a Hammerschmidt crank (HS?). No anchor point for the Schlumpf either.

The horizontal dropout with derailleur hanger doesn't seem weird. Most older bikes have that feature, as does the Surly Cross-check, and many others.

[Liesl]

Ha! Just saw the photo of the HS. Last March, Grant showed Erin and
me his beautiful design of asymmetrical seatstays. He had a bit of a
rig set up and showed 'em to us over a latte. I remember how stunning
they were and how he was playing with the idea. In June, when the
speculation began, not wanting to tip Grant's cap too much (given the
great windshield escapade) I wrote the following post:

"I think the new bike will have creative and beautiful seat stays here-
to-for never seen."

liesl 'Vindication will come. Just you wait.' in minneapolis

[cyclotourist]

The horizontals make me think IGH more than anything else.  It's the only Rivendell bike to have them (other than custom), which is significant. 

What's he doing in there...?

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thil...@gmail.com> wrote:

Grant has voiced opposition to IGHs before, and nothing about this suggests this will be a dedicated IGH bike. This one appears to lack the Rohloff OEM mount, as well as the ISCG tab for a Hammerschmidt crank (HS?). No anchor point for the Schlumpf either.

The horizontal dropout with derailleur hanger doesn't seem weird. Most older bikes have that feature, as does the Surly Cross-check, and many others.

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Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

[Joe Bernard]

I think "Grant's opposition to IGH" is not a current sentiment. His tastes have evolved some in recent years, and IGH has grown immensely in popularity in that time as well.

[Montclair BobbyB]

I think the anchor mechanism is built into the Schlumpf BB mount...
that crank is one fancy piece of engineering. And then there's the
lower-priced FSA Metropolis Patterson crank, which doesn't require any
anchor point... pretty cool.

On Dec 5, 10:07 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:

[dougP]

I'll take a guess that the diagatube stays have something to do with
forces generated by the drive being on the right side & wanting to
twist the rear triangle. But that's a real longshot, considering it's
not a problem on other Rivs. Maybe the natural progression of the
2TT?

Sounds like he's on a mission to build it; maybe we'll hear more by
week's end. Lifting the cloak has only deepened the mystery.

dougP

[rperks]

but why is the hanger so short? that stubbly little thing will likely
limit the range of the casette?

wild speculation abounds

Rob

> **- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Philip Williamson]

Thanks for bringing the Patterson crank to my attention, it seems
really cool.
Except that "die cast alloy" makes me think of the cheap metal cars I
was always breaking as a kid. Eek.

Philip

[Philip Williamson]

I expected a steel tube handle instead of a strap, myself.

Drat! I thought the seat tube looked extremely slack, but Photoshop
tells me it's a dead-on 72 degrees. Personally, I'm not holding my
breath for an IGH Rivendell bike. It would be a little like Grant
suddenly rolling low-trail forks. And the internal hubs I've used have
been MORE trouble than a derailleur setup. My wife's Belleville is, so
far, the lone exception, being equally no-trouble-at-all as a
derailleured bike.

The midstays kind of freak me out, going everywhichaway. But... the
left stay is well situated to brace the (minimal) forces of a coaster
brake reaction arm... but, there's a cable stop on the top tube, which
can only be ("most likely is") for a rear brake. And you know what's
cool? The diagatube doesn't even rate a mention.

I'm really enjoying this. If I'd pledged $1500, I might be a little
antsy. :^)

Philip

Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com

On Dec 5, 1:52 pm, "Allingham II, Thomas J"

<Thomas.Alling...@skadden.com> wrote:
> D-shaped braze-ons have to be anchor points for a carrying strap -- see Grant's Atlantis in the Staph Bikes post, which has one made of what looks like rim tape.
>
> ________________________________
> From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bernard
> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 4:32 PM
> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [RBW] Odd New Bike (HS)
>
> It exists, I am bewildered. I can't figure out the reason for the assymetrical diagatubes in the rear triangle, or what those D-shaped braze-ons are for. Discuss, people who discuss things.
>
> http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/13791776081/odd-new-bike-p-2
>
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[Peter Morgano]

Whoa horizontal drops, 4 seat stays, brazed on derailuer hanger, it is an odd bike for sure.

On Dec 5, 2011 4:31 PM, "Joe Bernard" <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

It exists, I am bewildered. I can't figure out the reason for the assymetrical diagatubes in the rear triangle, or what those D-shaped braze-ons are for. Discuss, people who discuss things.

 

http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/13791776081/odd-new-bike-p-2

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[Daniel M]

I'm struggling to understand it. From what I can tell, the mixte-like
rear stays curve to connect to the seat stay on the drive side, but to
the chainstay on the non-drive side. My first reaction was that this
was due to the inherent asymmetry in the stress on the rear triangle
that results from having the drive chain on one side; many years ago I
had a rear hub on an old MTB get so loose that the front of the rear
tire rubbed the inside of the non-drive chainstay during hard pedal
strokes due to the torque imparted (about a vertical axis) by the
chain pulling forward on the right side of the rear wheel. I suppose,
even with a properly adjusted hub, similar forces are communicated to
the rear dropouts. I have no idea why this would be a way to address
this, however.

My second thought is that having the mixte stay attach to the
chainstay is the ideal solution for whatever problem Grant is
addressing, but that it would interfere with the chain on the drive
side, so curving up to the seat stay is the next best thing. For some
reason, meeting at the rear dropout is being avoided.

Other things I can't help but notice: derailer hanger with a
horizontal dropout so it can be run geared, singlespeed, or... IGH?
Appears to have shifter braze-ons on the down tube as well FWIW.

As for the loops, they look like something to run a strap through to
me. Could this be some sort of cargo-oriented bike?

Just my first reactions and subsequent brainstorm. Your guesses are
as good as mine.

Daniel M

[Peter Morgano]

I run an alfine on my saluki and is sweet,  would love horizontal drops though

[Will]

My guess would be the d-shaped braze-ons are chainguard hangers.

That might explain the dropouts and the tubing in the rear triangle.
Perhaps Riv is ready to make bikes for internal hubs.

[Thomas Skean]

Goodness gracious I love my 2TT Hillborne.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

[Joe Bernard]

Ok, I give up. The update mentions shifters (plural); and borrowing wheels at the shop, which eliminates IGH 'cause there ain't no spare IGHs littering RBW HQ. See, we shall.

[Ginz]

Joe -- good insight. I don't believe it is an IGH, either.

[MSmith]

I think the extra, asymmetrical "chainstays" are purely aesthetic whimsy.  The mixte lug for the diagatube has sockets for stays to go back to the rear dropout.  In the description, Grant mentions that he wanted a diagonal tube - functional use be damned!  He used the mixte lug, in lieu of the Hunqha lug,  so here are these extra sockets that can be ground off (boring) of he could stick some crazy tubes to:  a) look interesting and unique, b) because things don't always need a purpose, c) and the likes of the people on this list would have a field day trying to figure out WHY.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Cheers- Mike in So. Boston, Mass

[Dan]

Hmmm -- do the canti braze-ons look like they're set for small wheels
to anybody else?

Dan S., SW Wisc.

[Joe Bernard]

No canti mounts. You're seeing midmount rack eyelets.

[Dan]

well, then, I for one don't see a heckuvalot that's unusual. Quirky
and eccentric, maybe, but still looks like a Riv.

[PATRICK MOORE]

I hope there is an engineering reason for those weird mid-stay stays; would hate to see Rivendell bicycles degenerate into mere stylistic whimsey. Function determines (or ought to determine) form! Beauty in craft is not cosmetic but comes from good (= intelligent: proper ratio of means to ends) design, which obviously means, "design for the given purpose." The four Rivs I've owned (two left) have *all* been first and foremost very nice fitting and (except in my case, the Sam Hill) very nice riding bikes designed to perfectly fulfill a given function.

Of course, there is (as Plato pointed out) the universal beauty of geometrical shapes -- not to mention that of colors -- but then you are dealing with sculpture or painting or both and not with a craft object meant to serve a given physical purpose.

Patrick "Philosophe" Moore (who deliberately left out the terminal "r" since this conceit is expressed in French).

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[Joe Bernard]

I'm gonna say that diagatubes in the rear triangle which look like flailing tentacles is pretty different..

[robert zeidler]

What have I gotten myself into......?

RGZ

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:18 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm gonna say that diagatubes in the rear triangle which look like flailing tentacles is pretty different..
>

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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Yup. Gotta wait for the build -- all will be revealed....

-----Original Message-----
From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of robert zeidler
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:32 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

RGZ

[Will]

I guess I've got IGH on the mind since I saw a newish (perfect paint,
new saddle) Hilsen with that setup at the bike rack this past week.

Given, every aspect of the bike appeared new, I wondered whether it
came from Riv with that setup.

But looking at the shots today, I dunno. Mysterioso like an off-road
camper.

Relooking at the BLUG pictures, it feels more like a V.2 for Bomba.

[Matthew J]

> And the internal hubs I've used have
> been MORE trouble than a derailleur setup.

Agreed. IGH have their fans and many benefits.

But at least as of 3 years back when I sold my OEM Rolhoff bike, they
were more complicated than necessary for daily commuting in Chicago
and touring in the relatively flat Midwest. Might make more sense in
the Bay area with so many ups and downs.

On Dec 6, 12:42 am, Philip Williamson <philip.william...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­---

> > ****************************************************
>
> > To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein.
> > ****************************************************
> > ****************************************************
>
> > This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof.
>
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> > ===========================================================================­===- Hide quoted text -

[Smitty-A-Go-Go]

"would hate to see Rivendell bicycles degenerate into mere stylistic whimsey." 

Don't get me wrong... I most definitely love the ride and fit of my AHH but I also love it's "stylistic whimsey". One of the things that continues to draw me toward the riv thing is their willingness to do things for style and whimsey. examples off the top of my head...

the lugs could be way more plain, but they're not... great effort went into those cut outs

2-tone paint job... one color would protect the steel just as well as 2 and filling those windows is completely unnecessary.. but it looks so good

Look at any riv head badge... there are many simpler ways to mark a frame

Special edition Phil "Rivy" hubs... even the product description says the cutouts are for looks

canvas bags... there are stronger, lighter, cheaper, more waterproof, more UV resistant, more durable fabrics out there... but none of them are as stylish as canvas.  

Even 2TT could arguably fall under stylistic whimsey

I think stylistic whimsey one of the things many of us like so much about these bikes. But I don't know many Riv owners in persons... maybe I'm the vain one. Or maybe I have a  different definition of "stylistic whimsey"  Either way, I'm on the edge of my seat to see how this thing builds up. 

--Smitty

[William]

>it feels more like a V.2 for Bomba.

I'll disagree that conjecture just on the grounds of it looking like a caliper-brake only bike.  No canti posts, no disk mounts, no apparent provisions for a hub-brake of any kind, except maybe in the rear if those tentacle-stays have something to do with braking.  

[Dan]

and they all proceeded to hold their breath...

:)

[Allan in Portland]

Whimsy (sheesh). With them splayed in opposite directions like that, I think he's letting you in on the joke.

As for the carry strap vs. carry tube, I reckon a very non-trivial cost savings: with lugs, mitering, and brazing... Plus one for the the weight wiennies too.

Regards,
-Allan

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

You certainly COULD set up this bike with an IGH, but it appears to have all the usual provisions for a rear derailleur (DT shifter boss, chainstay cable mount).

IMO, people buy IGHs for all the wrong reasons - i.e. the mythical "no-maintenance drivetrain" that tends to appeal to non-mechanical persons. The truth is closer to the drivetrain not being low-maintenance, as much as it's generally unmaintainable, since small parts are generally nonexistent for all but a few hub models. Also, they tend to complicate routine fixes, like flat tires. Grant doesn't seem to like unmaintainable stuff.

[Joe Bernard]

Many people like them for the simplified shifting - no cog/chainring jumping - plus the ability to downshift while stopped. I am one of those people. My derailer bikes are swell, but I like my Nexus-hubbed Electra Amsterdam a lot.

[robert zeidler]

I have a Civia Bryant w/ IGH. I bought it as a winter/commuter kind
of experiment. It weighs a ton, but th weight mostly disappears once
it gets rolling. Shifting takes some getting used to.

I think Grant has something other than looks in mind here, but he's
also loving the conjecture-it's fun, who wouldn't. I'm on the list
and I'm not an easy build (68-70cm), so it should be fun (famous last
words!).

RGZ

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Many people like them for the simplified shifting - no cog/chainring jumping - plus the ability to downshift while stopped. I am one of those people. My derailer bikes are swell, but I like my Nexus-hubbed Electra Amsterdam a lot.
>

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[EricP]

Am with Jim on this. Had a Nexus equipped bike that barely made it
through one winter before needing complete replacement. (Shimano took
care of it under warranty). And changing a tire in serious sub-zero
weather was a challenge, to say the least. Although the older Sturmey
3 speeds seem to be the best of the lot.

Getting back to the bike, and looking at the photos again, it just
appears to be a normal setup. Maybe could run it single speed, but
doubt it. Grant does mention it has a specific purpose. One that I'm
stymied about. Then again, it's not a worry since I didn't order one.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[Joe Bernard]

From what I've read, that's not a common occurence with current Shimano IG hubs. As far as working on tires in sub-zero weather..yeah..that sounds rough. You'd want a derailer bike for those conditions. Or a car.

[jpp]

are there no canti mounts?   coaster brake off road camper?  fixed?

[Jeremy Till]

My own wild speculation:

We know that this frame is made to work with the new bars coming out as well, previously referred to as the "BU" or "Back Up Bar," which is a vaguely cruiser-ish upright bar in the style of Nitto Albatross/Promenade, or various Wald bars.  Looking at the photo, something which struck me was it seemed like the top tube was relatively long for the seat tube size.  And this would make sense for using a swept-back bar like this, and suggesting that this bike is Grant's attempt to design a bike more specifically for bars like this, rather than previous models which are designed to work equally well with all the types of bars that Riv sells. 

What else do we know about the frame, aside from the weird asymmetry and the presence of carry-strap braze-ons?  It has horizontal dropouts but no specific provisions for an IGH, suggesting that Grant intends it to be used for single-speed or fixed-gear usage at least some of the time.  It also doesn't have canti posts, suggesting that it is made for (at most) ~40mm tires and fenders, assuming it uses 55-73mm reach sidepulls. 

So, a frame with a long top tube to accomodate cruiser-ish swept-back bars, to be used, at least some of the time, as a single-gear bike, with relatively narrow (by Riv standards) tires?

This is a Rivendell Scorcher.  At least, my bet is that the "S" in "HS" is for Scorcher.  Or some kind of tribute to early 20th century american frame design, even if it has gears.

[robert zeidler]

This couldn't be some sorta Electra-type bike could it?

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[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

It is a common occurrence on the IGH hubs that see heavy use in foul weather, Rohloff excepted. We have to replace several Shimano and SRAM IGHs every year, which is always a huge let-down to their owners, who believed the hype on the Internet that these things go forever with no maintenance. If the manufacturers made the small parts available for repair, I would take them more seriously. One tech at SRAM told me that one of their $200+ hubs was intended for "cruisers and low-torque applications", not for serious everyday use.

[Joe Bernard]

I'm surprised people think of them as "no maintenance". I didn't know that. But then, I don't think of any moving part that way..

[Eric Norris]

Then there's the hub on my Raleigh Superbe, stamped "74" and apparently going strong almost 40 years after it was made:

http://tinyurl.com/76huecq

--Eric N
Sent from my iPad2 

On Dec 6, 2011, at 7:09 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thil...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It is a common occurrence on the IGH hubs that see heavy use in foul weather, Rohloff excepted. We have to replace several Shimano and SRAM IGHs every year, which is always a huge let-down to their owners, who believed the hype on the Internet that these things go forever with no maintenance. If the manufacturers made the small parts available for repair, I would take them more seriously. One tech at SRAM told me that one of their $200+ hubs was intended for "cruisers and low-torque applications", not for serious everyday use.
>

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[Peter Morgano]

Takes me 5 minutes to change a tire on my saluki, don't even have to take off the cable anchor.  Takes some extra forethought when you set it up the first time but think alot of the bad vibes about igh comes from unfamiliarity with how to set them up compared to the much more familiar derailuer setup.

On Dec 6, 2011 8:52 PM, "Joe Bernard" <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

From what I've read, that's not a common occurence with current Shimano IG hubs. As far as working on tires in sub-zero weather..yeah..that sounds rough. You'd want a derailer bike for those conditions. Or a car.

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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

This is intriguing -- but see GP's comment in the most recent post: "The bike isn’t a normal road or trail or touring bike. It’s something else. It will DO those things, because it’s a good all-around bike..."  It's hard to imagine he would characterize a Scorcher single speed as a touring bike -- and even harder to see it fitting the original June description:

 

• elegant to an extreme without being a sissy, foppish, nostalgic bike.

• not for extreme riding. Basically for everyday use. You could ride across the country on it, easily. You could (and I will) take it on trails. 

 

I'm still mystified -- will we get the Big Reveal tomorrow?

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Till
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:15 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Odd New Bike (HS)

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[TSW]

I wish it'd be belt-drive friendly...
...

Tse-Sung
Berkeley

[Thomas Skean]

I tried Shimano IGHs a few years ago. Went through three of them in <2,000 miles. At first I thought it was my weight; that they simply weren't made to operate under the torques induced by a 275lb (at the time) person. It might also have been the gritty nature of the paths I rode. But the last hub, which lasted more than 1,000 miles, would not shift much at all when it was 20 degrees or colder. That was the final nail; I ride year round and park outside in the Chicago area. A shifting system that literally froze just didn't work for me.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean
who finds IGHs appealing but has IGH CFS

[Montclair BobbyB]

... as in drum or roller-brakes???

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Here's what I'm expecting: belt-drive IGH with STI-type shifters and proprietary aluminum-spoked wheels. I'm surprised, frankly, that the frame is made of steel.

[jpp]

you forgot electric assist!

[William]

The first of the ten early adopters to document riding the HS across the country should get there's for free.  

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the. 603 mm bsd wheel size...

[Joe Bernard]

That might've been an amusing endeavor 5 years ago. In this economy..?

[EricP]

603?? Drat. Had just stocked up on 601s. Sigh.

You also forgot the retro-direct shifting. As well as lugged (to the
frame) non-adjustable in any way seatpost.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Dec 7, 12:08 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Mike]

There's pictures of the bike built-up on the Blug. It looks really
nice. Probably not for everyone but nice. I'd ride one but I'm set for
a commuter. it's really making me consider putting upright bars on my
QB...

http://rivbike.tumblr.com/

--mike

[Roger]

It's a Long-Long!

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Everything makes sense, except why the horizontal drops?

Bike looks really great.

-----Original Message-----
From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 3:11 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Odd New Bike (HS)

http://rivbike.tumblr.com/

--mike

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[Mike]

On Dec 7, 1:09 pm, "Allingham II, Thomas J"

<Thomas.Alling...@skadden.com> wrote:
> Everything makes sense, except why the horizontal drops?
>

Probably so that it can be set up as a singlespeed if one chooses. My
commuter is a singlespeed, it just makes sense for me given that my
commute is short and relatively flat. Certainly easier to keep the
drivetrain clean and running smoothly.

--mike

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2011-12-06 at 10:17 -0700, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
> Function determines (or ought to determine) form! Beauty in craft is
> not cosmetic but comes from good (= intelligent: proper ratio of means
> to ends) design, which obviously means, "design for the given
> purpose."

That may well be your religion, but it is not a universal Truth.

All welded joints are not equally beautiful: I've seen plenty of
perfectly satisfactory weld joints that looked as though they were
caulked with dog feces smeared on with a popsicle stick.

What's more, paint has but one functional purpose, to protect the
underlying surface from the elements. Unattractive colors, blobs,
orange peel, all serve the function equally well, but it is absurd to
claim they are all equally beautiful because of that.

[clamp...@yahoo.com]

I'm not sure how to interpret Grant's description of the bike. Is
this basically a Rivendell Cruiser bike?

Regardless of it's specific purpose, I really like it...maybe more
than the existing Riv line-up. 100% of my riding is around the
subdivision for exercise and on several of the excellent (but not
connected) multi-use trails scattered about the metro area. No
touring. No club rides. No commuting. I've been planning on
building up a decent or nice multi-speed "cruiser" style bike, some-
what inspired by the old English 3-speeds. I'm on the lookout for a
vintage frame to build on and I've also got my eyes on the Surly LHT
frame as a basis. The Hunqapillar is on the list as well but there
are a lot of compromises based on what I want I what I would have to
spend. This new bike might be spot-on to my needs to the extent that
I would be willing to make the sacrifices needed to purchase one.
That is, if it becomes a production model, as Grant has hinted.

On Dec 7, 3:09 pm, "Allingham II, Thomas J"

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