New Blug Post with Jay Ritchey video

[Jim Mather]

http://rivbike.tumblr.com/

Extensive post with new video about RBW staff. Great stuff by Jay, as
usual; it's nice to see his video work again.


jim m
wc ca

[Mike Schiller]

nice post.  Bummed that the new Sam 55 ( with 58 TT)  isn't 650B.  Happy about the new HA Rack and bag still in work and the 11-32 IRD made 8 speed cassettes.   The video is cool too.

~mike

[William]

Some aspects of retail are really horrible, and I really do not miss from my past life.  That broken Hunqa, 200% the rider's fault, and Riv is eating a frameset over it, and the customer is still disappointed.  That steams me more than a little.  

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 4:54:42 PM UTC-8, Jim M. wrote:

[PATRICK MOORE]

From the evidence that Grant provided, you can't validly make that conclusion.

Me, I worked in sales, too -- insurance -- and dealt with idiot and knavish clients, so nothing would surprise me; and indeed, "JRA" would be very odd here. But the evidence as given does not allow of more than a suspicion, even if a good and well informed one.

Logic: "what *do* they teach them in these schools?"

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[Peter Morgano]

Grant is just too nice of a guy to point out that some user error results in failure. Any product has that possibility. A Ferrari is a nice car, top of the line, but if you mash the clutch and grind through all the gears for the better part of an afternoon you are gonna need a new gearbox, not the fault of the millions in R&D and hard work that went into said gearbox.

[Alex Moll]

Good grief! I didn't think it possible to like RBW more than I already did. Great video of great people, and a great business.

[René Sterental]

Great video! I sent it to my wife and children so they could see where my bikes were born...

René 

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[eflayer]

What a fine look at the company at the human level. Broadcast quality video could be part of a series about people, values, and small business. Kudos to Jay and all who participated.

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 4:54:42 PM UTC-8, Jim M. wrote:

[Mike]

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 5:53:51 PM UTC-8, Mike Schiller wrote:

 11-32 IRD made 8 speed cassettes.   The video is cool too.

~mike

Didn't Grant say that the cassettes are 12-34? And yeah, the video was great. I would love to see even more footage of the whole crew riding. 

--mike

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

We had a customer a few years ago break a Sam. Long story short: the fellow was abusive to the bike, and the cracked frame didn't surprise me. In the course of this fiasco, the guy became extremely upset with me and with Riv. It started to become clear that no reasonable solution was going to make him into a happy customer (and I wasn't going to be bullied into an unreasonable solution). I actually didn't feel a full replacement was warranted. I told all of this to Riv. Nonetheless, Grant sent me a new frame for the guy. And new Silver sidepulls, since the broken frame was the earlier canti version. There was little or nothing to gain from this gesture, nor was it a slam-dunk that Riv was obligated in any way...but Grant gave the guy the extreme benefit of the doubt. I always admired that "turn the other cheek" approach to customer service.

[C.J. Filip]

Love the S24O clips. Great work, Jay.

Can't wait for that HA rack!

[René Sterental]

Aha!!! Me neither!

On Thursday, January 17, 2013, C.J. Filip wrote:

Love the S24O clips.  Great work, Jay.

Can't wait for that HA rack!

[dougP]

It's so refreshing to watch a video where the participants speak in complete, thoughtful sentences and the scenes last longer than a fraction of a second.  You really get a feel for the people & the work environment. 

The comment early in the video about "talking people down" to something reasonable is personal.  When I first contacted Rivendell, I had this fantasy touring bike in my mind.  After going thru the measurement process, etc., I believe it was Mark who suggested what I was really looking for was an Atlantis, at about half the price of my fantasy & a fraction of the delivery time.  After over-thinking that for a while, I ordered the Atlantis.  It took perhaps a mile to forget whatever it was I thought I was compromising.

dougP

[Manuel Acosta]

Jay did an amazing job with the video. Perfect video of the behind scenes of Rivendell HQ. Just like the shop the video had a real organic feel and super causal but still very informational. Super real. Just like the lovely folks at Rivendell.

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 4:54:42 PM UTC-8, Jim M. wrote:

[Philip Williamson]

I'm reading a random library book called United Breaks Guitars, which is about customer service, which always makes me think of Rivendell. I'd never seen or heard of the viral video it's about (the author is the songwriter), which is ironic, since it has 13,000,000 views on YouTube. Recommended, charming, humble book.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[Matt Beebe]

That is a great video.    Lots of honesty and interesting details, especially for us Rivendell geeks, but also genuinely intriguing for anyone remotely aware of nature and potential hazards of small business.

Glad to see the Appaloosa bike is going to happen, and the new IRD 8-speed 12-34 cassettes sound good.

[eflayer]

I would like to see a nicely edited tasteful video of Mark doing a full bike build. Not long and boring, but more his philosophy and let's say 20 of the finer points he pays attention to when doing a build ie the Zen And The Art of Building a Rivendell.

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 4:54:42 PM UTC-8, Jim M. wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

That Hunqapillar story irritates me. Getting something crossed up in a wheel is a hazard of riding a bicycle. If something gets in there and you keep pedaling, either the wheel is going to stop spinning, or something's going to snap. If I did that to my Saluki, I would expect to pay for the repair, not express "disappointment" in the frame. This is ridiculous.

 

Joe Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

[soapscum]

Really enjoyed the short film. I had a good feeling about that Rivendell crew; now I know why. The music was perfect.

 

Shawn

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 4:54:42 PM UTC-8, Jim M. wrote:

[Dave]

loved that video.  nice job jay!  I didn't know how compelling a 30 minute video could be, but man that thing just flies right by.  Makes me like the company even more, and really makes me want to get out on an S24O soon.

Dave

[William]

"From the evidence that Grant provided, you can't validly make that conclusion."

Allow me to make a humble retraction.  I can only validly lay 100% of the fault at the feet of the rider, not one scintilla more.  200% was unfair of me.  Mea culpa.  

[Mike]

I really really liked that video. Entertaining and informative. Some folks will watch it and chuckle, thinking it's like something out of Portlandia but others will probably be drawn in by it.

My favorite parts were Grant talking at the beginning and the footage of Rich bombing down O'Shaughnessy on his Xtracycle loaded with wheels.

As a Riv enthusiast, I'd love to see videos for each model, like the Hunqapillar video but I doubt that will happen. I've found the how-to videos that they've posted quite helpful.

--mike

[PATRICK MOORE]

Not on the basis of the evidence, you can't.

[William]

Oh, I thought you were joking around since I said 200%.  

Care to share your theory?  I'm apparently not smart enough to conceive a way that this could possibly be a defective frame.   

[Anne Paulson]

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:17 PM, William <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh, I thought you were joking around since I said 200%.
>
> Care to share your theory? I'm apparently not smart enough to conceive a
> way that this could possibly be a defective frame.

It *could* be defectively brittle metal, such that it snapped under a
teeny tiny insult that you'd barely notice. I'd say that was
vanishingly unlikely, but I can conceive it.

--
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Dropouts are generally cast parts, so it is possible it was defective.  

But, it's also clear that we have no real business deciding anything about the person who sent it in, and whether it's a valid claim.  It's a Rivendell decision and they chose to act in an amazingly upright manner.

Having worked in the trenches of retail for a good chunk of my life, I will say that people can come up with an amazing set of rationalizations and requests.  It's part of running your own business to determine how you handle each request.

- Jim / cyclofiend.com

[William]

I'll drop it.  It's probably my ex-retail guilt complex wanting to give Rivendell the benefit of the doubt.  If Rivendell wants to give the rider the benefit of the doubt, I've got no reason to be upset about it.  They've been kind to me before, too.  I shouldn't be bummed at them being kind to someone else.  

[PATRICK MOORE]

You know, after looking more closely at what Grant said, and at the photos, I have to agree that the evidence points to more than a brittle or defective dropout. I neglected to consider the damage to the wheel, which points to a stick. So I withdraw my earlier comment.

What drew my fire was what I perceived as excessive defensiveness on behalf of Riv and against the customer. I still think we ought to withhold judgment about hiserher motives, but for the record it looks very much like something that ordinarily would not merit a free frame replacement.

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:52 PM, tapebubba <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick

I didn't take it as aggressive.  Like I said, I thought you were joking around about 200%.  Then, I thought maybe you were still joking around about my use of the word "fault".  Like if a stick got into his rear wheel, that wasn't the rider's "fault"; it was the stick's fault.  My next post was going to see if just assigning 100% of the "responsibility" to the rider instead of 100% of the fault was what you were after.  I simply consider the absence of a plausible theory as sufficient.  If there is a plausible theory on how it was a defective frame I was interested in hearing it, that's all.  I'm not claiming there is no such thing as a Rivendell defect.  What I am saying is I can come up with a dozen plausible scenarios that it is the rider's responsibility and I can't think of any plausible scenarios for that particular incident being caused by a Rivendell. 

Bill




On 1/18/2013 12:25 PM, PATRICK MOORE wrote:

Bill -- taking this off list: I've learned the hard way to "never assume anything". The judicial maxim is "audiatur et altera pars" -- "Hear the other side also". I think one could safely say, "I can validly lay 75% of the fault" .... etc, meaning "I am 75% sure it was rider caused", but none of us (perhaps even Grant) knows that the dropout wasn't defective. My second custom Riv came with a defective fork -- the brake hole was drilled too high for the normal reach brake specified. So errors do happen even at the top end of things.

Anyway, I don't mean to be agressive; sorry if I was. But I do think that barring more evidence, the question to some degree still remains moot.

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[PATRICK MOORE]

[Now that we've taken care of *that*, let's talk about Lance as talked about by Grant.]

[jpp]

I like the idea if they made a video for each model.  It would be cool to "see" the differences between the models.

[BSWP]

I read Grant's post, and I think there's a red herring here - the damage to the wheel came not from continued pedaling, but from continued rotation of the wheel. They're simply not the same thing. Either something got into the spokes, ahead of the derailer and inside the chain, or something smashed the derailer into the spokes from the side. Either way, the derailer was yanked back, and snapped off the rear dropout, and some spokes on the drive side of the wheel were snapped.

In any case, the damage was not done by continued pedaling - it was done by continued rotation of the wheel after something jammed up the works. The rider could have been simply coasting along. Purely armchair racing here, yes, but the best thing any of us could do in such a case is to stop as quickly as possible.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[rob markwardt]

I've had two similar experiences. First time a cable/wire sticking
out of the ground from some previous construction snagged on the
derailleur and yank me to a halt bending the hanger and destroying my
derailleur. Second time not sure what happened but the derailleur
again was yank into the wheel, breaking several spokes with serious
hanger bendage. No dropout breakage but I can certainly see how it
could happen. Both were on gravel but would certainly would fall in
the JRA category.

On Jan 19, 9:37 am, BSWP <ashtab...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I read Grant's post, and I think there's a red herring here - the damage to
> the wheel came not from continued pedaling, but from continued rotation of
> the wheel. They're simply not the same thing. Either something got into the
> spokes, ahead of the derailer and inside the chain, or something smashed
> the derailer into the spokes from the side. Either way, the derailer was
> yanked back, and snapped off the rear dropout, and some spokes on the drive
> side of the wheel were snapped.
>

> In any case, the damage was not done by continued *pedaling* - it was done

[René Sterental]

It really doesn't matter. As a customer, one of the things that earns my loyalty is feeling that the shop/vendor/company will go out if their way to do something for me. Rivendell has done it in the past and I expect will continue to do it in the future if necessary. That is why I have 4 Rivendell bicycles and keep buying from them things I could buy elsewhere. 

In turn, I try to avoid being unreasonable and taking advantage of them. I've been in the opposite side of the spectrum, where stuff I wanted was being sold by a vendor who I felt treated me poorly, and I've learned the hard way that it wasn't worth buying from them, especially when there are many other equivalent options out there. 

While as a customer, I do not expect that Rivendell will replace my frames whenever anything unfortunate happens to them, when I needed them to, for sizing issues, they volunteered to do it. For an individual, it might mean everything; for a shop, it will likely b the seed of more future business and referrals. While there are indeed people who will abuse this, on the long run the benefit for all will be much larger. For me, it sealed the deal. 

I don't support the LBS that is closest to me; I support the ones that give me the best service and go out of their way for me; they make me feel special and welcome. When they stop doing that due to management changes, policy changes or because the sales person or mechanic that did it goes elsewhere, I follow them to their new place of work unless they go out of town, even if I have to drive further.  

And going back to the video, while everyone I've ever interacted with at Rivendell has always been wonderful, I do agree that Keven is special. Very special. I wasn't surprised when Grant stated it in the video. 

René 

[qwerty]

Rivsters,

Enjoyed the video. Looks like a great place to work. However, I
noticed that John Bennett was left out. Just checked the Riv website,
and sure enough, no John listed in the staff line-up. Mark is now GM.
Seems like a recent change the went unnoticed, unless I misses
something.

Mike G.

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[Manuel Acosta]

I believe John moved to Portland. Don't remember the reason why.

[grant]

John got married and he and his wife (high school sweethearts reconnected!) moved to Oregon in early Nov to be near family. Losing John was gigantic, but I'm in contact with him daily and it's not all pleasure---he may work a few hours a week for us. Mark is the new GM, and we're all happy about that. It wasn't a case of -- having to promote from within. Mark knows the job, conferred with John about it...and has been doing great.
Anyway, we ALL miss John so much, and he'd have been great  in the video. His office would have stolen the show.
Thank you all for liking it, and to whatever extent Rivendell Bicycle works, now you know why. Originally Jay and I talked about a ten-to-twelve minute videos, and that was the plan. And that was the budget, too. A few months later, after all the shooting (I think everything was one-take), Jay sent me a 29-minute vid (only the ultra-beginning, with me ridng down the trail, and then the typeover was added). Jay is a remarkable guy. He dives into things and seems to not know about learning curves the way the rest of us do. Jay was a great employee and friend. You can't know him without wanting to be more like him and feeling lucky. Super guy and he did a great job.

On Saturday, January 19, 2013 5:16:23 PM UTC-8, Mike Gillespie wrote:

[Paul Y]

Incredible video. I feel so lucky Rivendell exists.

[RJM]

You know, I have to say I am too.

 

Looks like a great place to work; the employees seem to believe in the company and I believe that respect, for lack of a better word, comes out in the products and the service that I have always enjoyed when I buy from them.

 

I can tell you this, I don't normally drive two hours with my friend to go to a book signing or talk my wife into vacationing in San Fran just so I can make a trip to Riv.

[Mike On A Bike]

I will say that I appreciated Grant's mention of earbuds as a possible
culprit, as well as highlighting the important fact that you hear
trouble before you see it. As someone who's ridden over 10k city miles
in the past 2 years and most of them with earbuds until recently, I
was not long ago converted to never listening to music while riding.
The slew of mechanical problems that you can snuff out early before
too much danger as well as the "spidey sense",or priopreception with
other road users, is a super huge deal, I've come to realize.

As someone who's been repeatedly guilty of reckless or potentially
self-endangering riding while "in the zone"/in oblivion, the narrative
described sounds very much like it involved that distraction. It's of
course impossible for anyone but the rider in question to know what
all happened, but I think it highlights that good riding requires
restraint and full attention.

And then I stop and ask myself... why are we talking about one bad
apple amidst the droves of us whose lives have really been
substantially changed for the better because of the skill, care and
attention that define Rivendell? I have always been taken aback by the
degree to which everyone there that I've dealt with has gone out of
their way to make sure I'm happy. Grants response reminds of the
Confucius quote that goes: "It is more shameful to distrust a friend
than to be deceived by one".

On Jan 18, 12:52 pm, William <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "From the evidence that Grant provided, you can't validly make that
> conclusion."
>
> Allow me to make a humble retraction.  I can only validly lay 100% of the
> fault at the feet of the rider, not one scintilla more.  200% was unfair of
> me.  Mea culpa.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:25:47 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> > From the evidence that Grant provided, you can't validly make that
> > conclusion.
>
> > Me, I worked in sales, too -- insurance -- and dealt with idiot and
> > knavish clients, so nothing would surprise me; and indeed, "JRA" would be
> > very odd here. But the evidence as given does not allow of more than a
> > suspicion, even if a good and well informed one.
>
> > Logic: "what *do* they teach them in these schools?"
>

> > On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM, William <tape...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
>
> >> Some aspects of retail are really horrible, and I really do not miss from
> >> my past life.  That broken Hunqa, 200% the rider's fault, and Riv is eating
> >> a frameset over it, and the customer is still disappointed.  That steams me
> >> more than a little.
>
> >> On Thursday, January 17, 2013 4:54:42 PM UTC-8, Jim M. wrote:
>
> >>>http://rivbike.tumblr.com/
>
> >>> Extensive post with new video about RBW staff. Great stuff by Jay, as
> >>> usual; it's nice to see his video work again.
>
> >>> jim m
> >>> wc ca
>
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[Joe Bernard]

Wow..I didn't know John left. To me he's almost as much "Rivendell" as Grant is. I'm sorry to see him go, and wish him well.

 

Joe Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

[PATRICK MOORE]

I was impressed by Mark's articulation and by the obvious lack of "attitude" among the speakers. 

Packing: the packing for frames and bikes I've received have been real works of art in themselves.

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[Eric Platt]

Well, I'll be the first one to complain about the video - the slide guitar wasn't audible enough on the outdoor jam.  Excellent playing but coulda used a second microphone to pick up the instruments better. (That's the guitar playing side of me coming out).

 

Otherwise it was a very enjoyable video.  Makes me want to head back out west some day.

 

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

[PATRICK MOORE]

Agree -- I wanted to hear more of the guitar.

[Addison Wilhite]

I wanted more cowbell.  

Addison
http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com

[Steven Frederick]

Given the number of musicians Riv seems to employ maybe they should cut a record (CD) and offer it for sale through Riv?  I'd buy one!

Steve

[Eric Platt]

Would buy one, also.  Would be even better if there were an LP option.  (But only 33 1/3, don't have the setup for 78rpm).

 

Could be a good idea for a Kickstarter project.

 

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

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[BSWP]

Maybe it's just my browser, but I can't seem to get the Vimeo video to start in the middle - it always starts over from very beginning if I try to nudge the marker forward. Anyone else? I can do this with most other Vimeo films.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Jay B]

Hey Andrew,

I had the same problem while trying the watch the video on RBW's site.  I went to the Vimeo site and had no problems starting the video in the middle.

-Jay B.