Stem raisers

[Tom]

Hi all,

Haven't posted here before but I've been reading for a while.

I'm 6'5", and I currently have a way-too-small bike (about to order a 68 cm Bombadil, so I'm a future Riv owner!).

On my current 60 cm frame I have a stem riser and a Technomic Standard stem both at the max height. The guys at my LBS think that setup is incredibly unsafe for someone my size (~240 lb).

I realise that it's not an ideal solution long-term, and I can feel the flex in the front end, but has anyone heard anything about the stem risers failing? I use the bike as a commuter, entirely on paved roads, so no real rough stuff to speak of—the issue would be the lever force my weight exerts on the point where the riser enters the steerer.

Any thoughts? Should I remove it ASAP?

I'd appreciate any advice!

Cheers,

Tom

[Esteban]

Do you have a photo? I wouldn't ride it if I could feel that much
flex. I'd lower the h'bars until the Bombadil arrives.

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

[Tom]

Thanks for the reply. I haven't taken any photos since I installed the Technomic stem, but here's a link to a photo with the original Raleigh stem. With the Technomic, I reckon there's about 30 cm (11") of quill showing above the headset!

I did dig up a post Sheldon made on bikeforums, in answer to a reader wondering whether the flex in his Technomic stem was a cause of concern:

The Technomic stem is top quality! There is nothing better that money can buy in this style of stem.

I've sold many hundreds of these wonderful stems, and use them on several of my personal bikes. I've never heard of one breaking.

http://harriscyclery.com/stems

One of the beauties of quill type stems is that even if you do manage to snap the aluminum quill, the stem won't fall apart because the wedge bolt will hold it together. If one of these stem quills were to break, you'd immediately notice that it would develop some play, but it wouldn't cause you to lose control or crash.

Sheldon "Imaginary Problem" Brown

I didn't think of the bolt holding it together—and I guess the guys at the LBS didn't either. And I suppose if the riser is CroMo as opposed to Aluminium it will bend rather than snap, if it fails?

Thanks again,

Tom

[Joe Bernard]

The problem with asking us is, if we tell you you're good and it snaps...bad us. 240 lbs. behind that long lever sounds dicey to me. If the Bombadil is a ways off, I'd recommend a taller Craigslist bike to get you by.

[Tom]

Yeah, true. I'm not asking anyone to bless it or anything. Just wondering whether anyone had any experience of failure or problems.

There is a long wait for the Bombadil. A second hand cheapie would be nice but not really an option when you consider buying parts, time to build, etc. This is my second hand cheapie. Anyway, I didn't mention that I'm in Australia, and the chance of finding an enormous bike second hand here is basically non-existant (I've looked). There hasn't historically been a large enough market to support the range of bikes you guys have in the US.

That Raleigh was bought new ca. 1975 by a friend who is almost my height, and it was the biggest available at the time. Basically I'm stuck with it until the Bomba arrives, and I want to make it work in the meantime. So I have a choice between comfortable bars with dubious safety and low bars with peace of mind—but a bike that isn't very enjoyable to ride.

Thanks for the input!

[Bruce Herbitter]

I used a Delta stem extender without issue for a while until a longer Nitto came along. Two of my friends who are taller guys use them and have been very pleased

On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 12:14 AM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

The problem with asking us is, if we tell you you're good and it snaps...bad us. 240 lbs. behind that long lever sounds dicey to me. If the Bombadil is a ways off, I'd recommend a taller Craigslist bike to get you by.

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[eflayer]

cycling is a dangerous crap shoot even with the very best and tuned equipment. from looking at the photo, it looks as if you are not anywhere close best or tuned. too many hazards out of your control. why not control the ones you can. if that thing is flexing, you are 240, seems you have the leverage to easily pop that thing right off of there....especially in some sort of a panic braking situation. just an opinion from a long way off.

[PATRICK MOORE]

What about a pair of tourist or North Road type bars? Those might get
you high enough without the raiser.

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[Garth]

Hi Tom ,

  We can debate the safety of the stem forever and a day .... and we'll never get anywhere.... but a headache!     To the point ..... do you like riding the bike like that .... you know ... is it fun?  I think that trumps everything .

Once you get your Bombadil .... I suspect you won't want to ride this ... or any other way-too-small bike again. Been there.  I had a much to small Stumpjumper I bought in 1983.  I tried in vain to get it to fit me ... but it never would ... it was just not a proper fit. I kept it over the years .... but once I got a proper fitting frame ... it happened to be a Bombadil too ..... I thought .... why am I keeping this? It rides like crap .... it's too small ... and it's just no fun. I promptly sold it.  There's a zillion other bikes to choose from ..... why keep sucking a lemon when a juicy sweet orange is just waiting for me?

Life is too short to settle for ill fitting or not fun to ride bikes. It isn't about the money .... ever ever ever . It's always always always what we're telling ourselves between the ears and the feelings from those thoughts. If something is not serving you well .... let it go .

[Dave Craig]

Tom

Check out bike Friday bicycles. With good materials, there can be quite an extension.

[cm]

I would ask the mechanic what he sees that is so dire.. does he know what he is talking about or is he just concerned because it looks weird (and it does look weird). If he seems knowledgeable and his concerns seem valid maybe it would make sense to listen. If everything is being used the way it was made to be used-- stem inserted far enough, extension inserted far enough then I probably wouldnt worry about it. If the extension is homemade or old or aluminum (or worse old, homemade, and aluminum) then I might be a little more concerned. Bike Friday uses CRAZY long stem extensions and I have never seen or heard of a problem. Yes they are folding bikes and designed that way, but it is really the same thing. Any chance Nitto made the extension? If so, dontworry'boutit.

Be careful, look for signs of early failure, and enjoy!

Cheers!

cm

[Ken Freeman]

I think you only have a breakage risk if you are causing large flex repeatedly.  If you have a Tech standard (about 19cm exposed quill) attached to an extender (about 7 more cm), that is more rise-above-headset than nearly anyone has in his/her experience.  I'm much smaller, so I'm not an example.  With the largest Raleighs of the day (Grand Prix came to our shops at 25 inches seat tube), you have very long steel head and steer tubes, so there's additional opportunity for elastic flex.  Elastic flex is not a precursor to breakage, it's the natural flexibility of metal parts.  Your head tube plus quills are around 3 times longer than mine, so there's a lot more natural flex even at the same muscular strength level.  It also sounds like you have a somewhat upright riding position, hence not too much weight on the bars.

At 6'5" and 240 you're big but not huge, so I'd not be too alarmed regarding the stem.  But how is your seatpost?  If you've had to set the saddle back, you could have a lot of seat rail flex and possibly flexing past the elastic point.

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[Tom]

Ken,

Thanks for the explanation of the flex. I wouldn't describe myself as
muscular, and I don't ride hard. Your comment about the seatpost is
very astute—you hit it right on the head! The reason this came up is
because I snapped my seatpost, and I went to the LBS to order a steel
one to replace it. They saw the riser and were concerned (although
they had seen it before and hadn't said anything). The emergency
braking scenario rather than repeated flex is what is bothers me.

I have back issues so I do sit upright, but the riser made a huge,
huge improvement in my comfort. I've ordered my Bombadil, but I think
I'll stay with the riser until it gets here. Hopefully not too long!

Thanks again to everyone who replied,

Tom

PS my Grand Prix's seat tube is 60 cm centre-to-top, and I couldn't
see any bigger ones from the '70s catalogues I looked at on Sheldon's
site...

[Joe Bernard]

I wasn't planning on chiming in again, but now that I hear your Bombadil is on the way I feel compelled to say STOP RIDING THAT BIKE. I think the reward of riding it a few more weeks while you wait isn't worth the risk.

 

Joe "just my opinion, why am I yelling" Bernard

Fairfield, CA.

[Leslie]

I'll have to say, in that pic you posted, I found the seatpost scarier than the stem.  

I'm guessing you're awaiting a diaga-Bombadil?   Those are taking awhile, not just 'a few more weeks'.      But, should be well worth the wait.

I suggest, if you've replaced the seatpost, then just carry on, w/ due caution, for the time being...

FWIW...

[Doug Van Cleve]

This was my thought as well.  There are quite a few non-drop bar options now and some even offer a few decent hand positions.  The Nitto Albatross has some rise, some forward reach and the curves offer a more aggressive position.  If you ride this bike in the drops, the Albatross' would be higher than that for sure with the Technomic.

Doug

[Doug Van Cleve]

If that riser isn't in as far as it can go, I would absolutely do that right away.  I think that a modern north road type bar (think Albatross) is your best bet though...

Doug

[Tom]

I thought about Albatross bars, and maybe in hindsight I shoulda done it. The bars would have been a good couple of inches lower (I was aiming for maximum height) and I was worried that the grips on Albatross bars would end up too close to me, on account of the small (for me) top tube, so I went with riser + technomic + noodles in the end.

[Tom]

Yeah, I've ordered one of the new Bombadils in 68 cm—and yes, I'll post photos when I get it! It's certainly gonna be big. Only time I'll have ever had a bike that fits me. Riv has told me to expect a six month wait so I'm on the Raleigh in the meantime.

I have bent seatposts before, so I was aware of the danger in that respect. When it snapped it was surprisingly uneventful. My weight just transferred to the pedals and I coasted to a stop, but I'm a slow-and-cautious type of rider so maybe that's what saved me. I'm not going to snap the stem hopping up a curb at 20 mph or anything, but the emergency braking scenario bothers me somewhat. I'll keep an eye on the riser for any cracks, and maintain a low speed down hills etc. until my new frame gets here...

Cheers everyone, I appreciate the time you've taken to discuss this with me!

Tom