SH/AHH sizing question

[Lugmonster]

Hello all,

I live in Australia and am thinking of picking up a Riv, either a
Hillborne or a Hilsen. Given shipping issues etc. I'm sweating over
picking the right sized frame. My PBH is 94cm but my height is only
186cm ie. I have a pretty long bottom half and short top half. The
folks at Riv are suggesting that I should be looking at a 64cm
Hillborne or a 65cm Hilsen.

Now this to me seems massive, as I seem to be comfortable on an
effective top tube length of about 570mm on a standard racing bike
(56-68cm frame). Any top tube past 580mm and I feel like its a bit of
a stretch. I'm therefore thinking of maybe a smaller Hilsen (?63) or a
60cm Hillborne.

I do appreciate that the bars will be higher thus shortening the
distance to handlebars but still it seems like those frames are a bit
stretched out for me. Anyone with a similar build who has had
experiences positive or negative with Riv sizing? Could you provide
some advice? Thanks!

[Joe Bartoe]

Hi Suraj,

Here's a link to my Riv Custom Spec sheet:

http://thesaltycyclist.blogspot.com/2009/07/rivendell-road-spec-sheet.html

It came out as a 63.5cm bike with 60cm top tube (measured horizontally, but actual length is longer due to slight upslope). I also had a A Homer Hilsen in 63cm that fit very well.

As you can see on the spec sheet, I have a pbh just under 93cm and I am the same height as you. If anything, you are smidge shorter in the upper body, but not by much. Given my experience on the 63cm AHH, which you can see built up for me here (http://thesaltycyclist.blogspot.com/2010/01/commutin-rig-homer-hilsen.html), I would recommend a 64 only if you planned on having high handlebars. That would be the only way to get the distance to the bars to be comfortable for you. If you like your handlebars lower than the saddle (mine are always about 4cm below my saddle), I'd recommend going down one size than recommended to 63cm. In the pic of my AHH, the stem has no rise and is 10cm in length (for reference).

These are all relative, of course. Think about how you'll be riding the bike and how you'd want it set up and decide accordingly.

Hope that helps,

Joe

PS- I can't find the specs for the 60cm Hillborne but I'm guessing it would be an odd fit for you based on the measurements provided.

Joe Bartoe
Synaptic Cycles Bicycle Rentals, Inc.
email: j...@synapticcycles.com
website: www.synapticcycles.com
Twitter: @synapticcycles
phone: 949-374-6079

> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 11:14:48 -0800
> Subject: [RBW] SH/AHH sizing question
> From: suraj.s...@gmail.com
> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

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[Jim M.]

Do you want it to feel like a standard racing bike? I used to race on
a much smaller bike than the Rivs I own, and I'm glad I've gone
bigger. I think the Riv staff are very good with sizing
recommendations but they aren't aiming for a racing bike fit.

I'm 185cm tall but my PBH is only 88cm, so I have the opposite issue
that you have. I have a 60cm Hilborne. With 38mm tires, the standover
is close to 0, but the top tube length is just right. I tried a 56,
but it felt cramped.

Cheers,
Jim M
wc, ca

[newenglandbike]

Welcome to the board LM, and congrats on deciding to go with a riv.   regarding your sizing dilemma I vote that you should listen to Rivendell's recommendation.     I've heard many people say they've regretted not following the Riv recommended sizing and went too small because of experience with other brands/bikes.   Check out this article for great advice:   https://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=41

Anyway don't fear the recommendation RBW gave you-   they wouldn't steer you wrong.

-Matt

[Smitty-A-Go-Go]

+1 on the "Go with what Riv says" sentiment. They do this every day and are familiar with their bikes and how they fit.

I'm 190cm tall with a 93+ pbh... I ride a 65cm Hilsen and I can't imagine a bike fitting better. That said, I probably would be fine on a 67cm too. But I think a 63cm would feel a bit small.  

--Smitty

[PATRICK MOORE]

I too take 57 cm c-c as the benchmark for my tts, but this is for (1)
a 73* seat tube angle, (2) saddles (Flites or Turbos) all the way back
on the rails on large-setback, older Dura Ace seatposts; and (3) a
moderately agressive drop bar position with bar about 3 cm below
saddle. See the photo of my Riv Road:

https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/BIKESMISCELLANEA#5695034988390084306

OTOH, I comfortably rode a 56 cm Sam HIllborne that had a 59 cm top
tube when my "normal" road bikes all have top tubes of 56 to 57. Part
of the excess was taken care of by the considerably shallower seat
tube: 71* instead of my usual 73*; this effectively "shortens" the tt
because you don't have to slam your saddle back as far to get the
right position wrt to the bb. The rest was taken care of by having the
bars a good 3 or 4 cm higher than those on my road bikes: thanks to
the acute head angle, raising the bar brings the bar back roughly in
the ratio of 1:2 comparing reach to height.

The overall effect was a comfortable position, especially with the
deeper drop/longer reach Noodles (deeper than the 185s and, currently,
Maes Parallels on the Road Rivs) but one that was not as agressive as
on the RRs.

I get the same results with my Fargo: the bar is far higher (~2 cm
above saddle) than on the RRs but the reach is the same because the
stem, bar and tt combo are much longer than on the RRs; thus:

https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/BIKESMISCELLANEA#5704695502487130658

Similarly, when I was negotiating purchase of my trike I was anxious
about the 58 cm c-c tt, but it turned out that the trike has a
shallower seat tube angle so that the saddle, so that with the saddle
a bit more forward to maintain the ideal saddle-to-bb relationship,
the reach turned out to be just like that on my RRs.

https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/BIKESMISCELLANEA#5665987116273041874

Upshot: consider (1) the seat tube angles of the SH or AHH compared to
your benchmark bikes and (2) how high the bars on the SH or AHH will
be compared to those on your benchmarks -- not to mention the kind of
bar you want to use.

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Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
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[Peter Morgano]

Is everyone on this list a giant??? Haha,  seriously though would like to see a breakdown of rbw bunch owners and pbh in some sort of chart. Just think it would be interesting.

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[Minh]

wow your pbh is high, i'm 6ft tall and ride a 56 SH (prolly a little
small, i could swing a 60), i also ride a 60 quickbeam, the TT on both
is similiar, but my PBH is only in the high 80s. I would trust the
RBW folks, there are more adjustments on the SH which is why you have
people that straddle two sizes either go small or go large, i think
either could work for you, but don;t be scared of what sounds like a
too big bike, these bikes actually fit better that way.

[Leslie]

On Sunday, February 26, 2012 7:25:07 PM UTC-5, Minh wrote:

wow your pbh is high, i'm 6ft tall and ride a 56 SH (prolly a little
small, i could swing a 60), i also ride a 60 quickbeam, the TT on both
is similiar, but my PBH is only in the high 80s. 

Barefoot, I'm 6' even (182.88cm), PBH is 34.5", aka 87.63cm.   My Ram is a 60cm, wonderfully fits. 

[rob markwardt]

more data...6ft, 89 pbh. Ride a 64 Ram but could easily adapt to a
62. I like my bars slighty below saddle level and with the high
headtube and the headset spacers I'm close to hitting the limit.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77502424@N00/6000327696

[Jim]

Still more data

 

PBH 100, ht 205cm, riding a 72cmAHH.  It is a lot more reach than my previous bike, but with the slack seat tube angle, and the Brooks pushed back, it is very comfortable.   I wouldn't have bought a bike this big left to my own devices (or the "professional" from whom I bought a fit), but it was absolutely the right decision.  I considered a 64cm Hillborne, and it probably would have worked, but not as well as the big Homer.

 

Jim in Boulder

[Robert F. Harrison]

I'm about 185cm tall and have a PBH of 94. I ride a 66cm Quickbeam with moustache bars that either even with or just a wee bit above the saddle level. Most comfortable bike I have. 

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statrix.com

[Dave Craig]

I'm 188cm with a pbh of 94cm. I ride a 65cm AHH. I run the bars at the same height as the saddle. I've found that I need to run a short dirt drop stem to be comfortable on the bike. The top tube still feels long for me - the top tube feels long on every modern bike I ride sized according to RBW recommendations. The seat and bar height is spot on, but the reach feels too stretched out. It doesn't help that my femurs are really long. To get the right orientation to my pedals, I have to use a long setback seat post with Brooks saddles. I'm also using Nitto noodles - also exacerbating the reach issue. It might be worth the wait to you to go custom. I wish I had. FYI, I've owned 4 Riv's, a 64 Atlantis, a 60 bombadil, a 64 Quickbeam and the 65 AHH. The QB fits the best of the bunch and the Atlantis was a close second. The top tubes on those were both 60cm. I still have the QB and, unfortunately, sold the Atlantis to buy the AHH.

Dave

[Andrew]

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Robert F. Harrison <rfhar...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm about 185cm tall and have a PBH of 94. I ride a 66cm Quickbeam with moustache bars that either even with or just a wee bit above the saddle level. Most comfortable bike I have.

I'm 6'6" (198 cm) and have a PBH of 95. My 66 cm Quickbeam with M-bars is a very good fit.Bar clamp is a couple cm above nose of the saddle. A 68 cm frame might have been ideal, but the 66 cm is a joy to ride, and doesn't feel cramped.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Mike On A Bike]

I have a PBH of 98cm (as best I can tell), saddle height of 86.5cm and
my height is 191cm.

I just built up a 64cm Sam Hillborne and it fits absolutely splendid,
fits as I would expect a custom to fit. I have a Brooks shoved all the
way back on a lugged seatpost and a Dirtdrop/Moustache cockpit and it
feels like just the right reach and more than enough height. I have it
set 3cm above the saddle and could probably get 7-8 above if I
wanted.

I can contrast this with a 64cm Quickbeam that I bought impulsively
and as my first Rivendell, and I wish I had gotten a 68. I was
irrationally freaked out about buying such a big bike, fearing things
like top tube clearance and just unfamiliarity with the concept (as
I'd never been able to find a good fitting bike on the cheap), but it
was a bad call. I can tell you from personal experience with having
very similar proportions to you that sizing up when in doubt has
resulted in a perfect fitting bike for me.

[PATRICK MOORE]

The SH is "compact" sized in that it has a very long tt for its height
as well as a very high head tube. I found the 56 to be almost too big
and I have had a 60 that was one of the best fitting bikes I've owned.

As Mike said, a given size in the SH can translate to a much larger
size in a more conventionally designed frame.

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[charlie]

I ride a 60cm SimpleOne and have a 86.4cm PBH (okay lets just say
87cm) I once was 5'11"+ but have shrunk an inch due to weight and age.
I also have a shorter reach (short arms) relative to my leg length
(think Welsh potato digger) My 'SO' fits wonderfully with a 9cm stem
and 41cm noodle bars. From what you all are saying a 56cm 'Sam' would
fit similarly or a 59cm 'HH'. I know a 58cm Atlantis is my size since
I am riding a 'LHT' which is fairly similar. Hope this helps give some
reference to the original poster. I think for the most part, going
larger than you think and following Riv's advice is a good way to go.
If you were sure you needed a lower top tube for off road clearance
and the fattest tires you could go smaller but then you would have to
make it up using a longer reach stem/bar combo and a taller seat post.
For road riding sizing larger makes more sense to me.

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[Mike On A Bike]

Just to be clear regarding following Rivendell's advice: Keven told me
to get at least a 66 when I told him my PBH initially, and I muddled
up the process with bad measurements and inexperience. With better
measurements and knowing what I like a la Rivendell bikes for the Sam,
he told me a 64cm Sam would fit like the 68 that I should have gotten,
and he was completely confident that the 64 would fit me really well.
In short, you'd do well to get good measurements and take Riv's
suggestion.

Keven was more than right, as the Sam is the nicest bike I would ever
find it necessary/reasonable to own. Grant does seem to have a truly
extraordinary ability to design a frame for maximum comfort,
performance and fun.

[newenglandbike]

The more I think about it, the more I think seat height (SH) is a better measurement to go by than PBH if you're going to dive in to a new frame and want the right size.     PBH can be measured wrong sometimes, whereas if you have a bike you've been riding a while, it's pretty easy run a tape measure from the center of the bb to the top of the seat and read it from the side.    Your PBH being 94cm would suggest a SH of 84cm, which would put you on a 67-69cm AHH if you go by the SH - 15 to 17cm which would give a fistful of seatpost.    The 65cm would work too but with more post/stem showing.    Again this is assuming an 84cm seat height.

For top-tube length, you can use a shorter stem, which is what I have done on some of my bikes.   If the longer TT is still not ideal for your back/shoulders, I would order a custom.    I have done this myself and yes it is more expensive, but you will get the Riv fit that is perfect for you.   Anyway good luck.

Matt

[Steven Frederick]

That's key, I think. If you want to run the bars high, then Riv's fit
guidelines are pretty good. If you want to run them level or slightly
lower than the saddle, downsizing is an option. I have
Riv-recommended 54cm frames and they fit fine--I also have a 52cm
Quickbeam (because that's the biggest they made for 650b wheels) and
it's very comfortable as well. I run my bars level-to-2cm below, the
saddle.

Steve

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