radiodns.uk

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Nicholas Humfrey

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Dec 6, 2017, 7:11:10 PM12/6/17
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Hello,

I have created a website that displays the information about services published using RadioEPG for Radio Stations in the UK: https://www.radiodns.uk


The initial list of frequencies and identifiers is retrieved from the Ofcom Technical parameters. The rest of the content on site is from the RadioEPG Service Information XML (aka ETSI TS 102 818).

The main purpose is that I have found that data quality improves when it is visualised and published on the web – so hopefully it gives a way of showing people what is currently available and some of the errors in the data.

While processing the data, I found quite a few errors and mistakes and have been tempted to add features make a site a RadioDNS checker/validator – but I understand that is a service that RadioDNS will be providing to members – and it should be something that is available for all services, not just ones in the UK.

The website is Open Source, with the source code on Github:

I will be interested in your feedback.


nick.

 

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Sean O'Halpin

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Dec 7, 2017, 3:12:36 AM12/7/17
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Hi Nick,

Nice one! That looks pretty good.

Who owns the radiodns.uk domain?

Sean

From: radiodns-...@googlegroups.com [radiodns-...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Nicholas Humfrey [nicholas...@bbc.co.uk]
Sent: 07 December 2017 00:11
To: radiodns-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RadioDNS-Dev] radiodns.uk

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Nicholas Humfrey

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Dec 7, 2017, 7:13:06 AM12/7/17
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Hi Sean,

I own the radiodns.uk domain. It is hosted using S3 + CloudFront.

nick.

Ben Poor

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Dec 7, 2017, 10:16:23 AM12/7/17
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Looks good Nick,

Nowwwww....how do we go about doing this for radiodns.ch?

Ben

On 7 December 2017 at 13:13, Nicholas Humfrey <nicholas...@bbc.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Sean,

I own the radiodns.uk domain. It is hosted using S3 + CloudFront.

nick.


Hi Nick,

Nice one! That looks pretty good.

Who owns the radiodns.uk domain?

Sean

Sent: 07 December 2017 00:11

Hello,

I have created a website that displays the information about services published using RadioEPG for Radio Stations in the UK: https://www.radiodns.uk


The initial list of frequencies and identifiers is retrieved from the Ofcom Technical parameters. The rest of the content on site is from the RadioEPG Service Information XML (aka ETSI TS 102 818).

The main purpose is that I have found that data quality improves when it is visualised and published on the web – so hopefully it gives a way of showing people what is currently available and some of the errors in the data.

While processing the data, I found quite a few errors and mistakes and have been tempted to add features make a site a RadioDNS checker/validator – but I understand that is a service that RadioDNS will be providing to members – and it should be something that is available for all services, not just ones in the UK.

The website is Open Source, with the source code on Github:

I will be interested in your feedback.


nick.

 

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Matthew, Ben

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Dec 7, 2017, 11:47:25 AM12/7/17
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Really helpful.  Thanks Nick.

How often is it downloading updates though?  I notice it's not picked up the corrections I made to the Bauer descriptions a couple of hours ago.

Cheers

Ben
Sent: 07 December 2017 12:13
To: radiodns-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RadioDNS-Dev] RE: radiodns.uk






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Nicholas Humfrey

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Dec 7, 2017, 12:11:49 PM12/7/17
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Hi Ben,

Given that updates are usually infrequent, I was planning on updating the site once per day.
I have just done a manual run.

Fantastic to see some improvements to the data :)

Let me know if there are any other features that would be useful.


nick.

nicholas...@bbc.co.uk

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Oct 25, 2018, 10:22:40 AM10/25/18
to RadioDNS developers
Hi,

I have released a new version of https://www.radiodns.uk 
It is now backed by a database, instead of statically generated pages.

This has allowed me to create pages for:
- Authorities (aka Service Providers)

Transmitter and Multiplex information comes from Ofcom data.

There are a few bugs to fix but I would appreciate any feedback.


nick.

Nick Piggott (RadioDNS)

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Oct 26, 2018, 3:57:56 AM10/26/18
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Hi Nick

This is a fantastic resource, thanks for putting it together and making it available to the community.

As it's a project in GitHub, I guess it would be great if people in other countries could pick it up and make similar resources, populating the database using datasets from the regulator(s) in their country?

Nick Piggott
Project Director
RadioDNS



RadioDNS Limited is a not-for-profit company owned by its members, and registered in England and Wales with number 08818015. The registered office is 113 Parson St, Bristol BS3 5QH, United Kingdom


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Ulrik Brinck

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Oct 26, 2018, 1:51:44 PM10/26/18
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"As it's a project in GitHub, I guess it would be great if people in other countries could pick it up and make similar resources, populating the database using datasets from the regulator(s) in their country?"
 
Hi,
I think that's a nice idea, but it obviously requires that a complete dataset is available. For example, here in Denmark the second character in the PI codes is for most stations not assigned by the authority, but is up to the radio station itself to choose (from 4 to F), so they can use it for regionalisation.
 
So I think that for Denmark the script would have to handle "v" as a wildcard and try a RadioDNS lookup for all possible values (4 through F).
 
And each country probably has it's own way to organise the data, so some conversion has to be done, either by the script or before the script is used. For Denmark, a spreadsheed would have to be stitched together from two or three lists, to get a complete set like the one from Ofcom. That can of course be done, but would be hard to automatize, so the site would probably not be able to update itself with new information.
 
But perhaps a better idea could be to see if you can make an agreement with the guys from fmscan.org about using their data? They seem to already have such information from many countries, in one big database.
 
Best regards,
Ulrik.
 
 

Nick Piggott (RadioDNS)

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Oct 26, 2018, 3:07:48 PM10/26/18
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Hi Ulrik,

The 2nd nibble in PI codes isn't always used properly, so it's good to know it is in Denmark, The UK has quite a few stations doing something similar. The RadioDNS registrations (and SI files, VIS servers etc.) should always refer to *all* the potential PI codes for a radio station. 

I don't know how easy it would be to adapt the code to find and merge the various data sources.

Of course, fmscan.org (and anyone else) is free to use RadioDNS to add similar functionality to their own site - maybe they can use Nick's code as inspiration on how to do that?


Nick Piggott
Project Director
RadioDNS



RadioDNS Limited is a not-for-profit company owned by its members, and registered in England and Wales with number 08818015. The registered office is 113 Parson St, Bristol BS3 5QH, United Kingdom

Nicholas Humfrey

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Nov 21, 2018, 6:31:42 PM11/21/18
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Hi,

I have been thinking about the possibility of adding other/all countries.
While I have tried to keep the code separated by function, the current site is very much based around the UK's Ofcom as an initial dataset bearer identifiers.
It is entirely possible to replace some of the code, so that it works for other countries, but it would take a bit of effort.

Since I last emailed, I have added ticks and crosses for the RadioEPG, RadioTag, RadioVis applications:

Individual services, also have links to the radiodns.org test tool:



I have also just created a couple of new report pages:

1) Bearers that aren't known to Ofcom

(These are bearers registered with radiodns.org and in a SI.xml, but aren't in Ofcom's spreadsheet)

2) Stations with no service entry

(These are bearers registered with Ofcom and radiodns.org but don't have an entry in SI.xml)


nick.

Nick Piggott (RadioDNS)

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Nov 22, 2018, 4:46:06 AM11/22/18
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Hi Nick,

This is really developing into an excellent tool, with some helpful views of the dataset.

It would be good to know from people in other countries whether open input data sources similar to the OFCOM txparams exist. I think OFCOM do a valuable industry service managing PI and EId / SId codes for the UK industry, which is an essential input requirement.

At the risk of becoming somewhat recursive, another way to populate the tool might be with a list of known FQDNs for a territory. Whilst not as authoritative as getting the list from a regulatory body like OFCOM, presumably it could be used to create a list of services (from the aggregate view of the SI files)?


Nick

James Cridland

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Nov 22, 2018, 5:32:39 PM11/22/18
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Perhaps I can help a little here, since I do a lot of the data matching in Radioplayer countries.

There's a list on the Austrian media regulator's website, which is a very good blueprint of how this should be done:
https://data.rtr.at/api/v1/tables/MedienFrequenzbuch.json?programm_typ=H%C3%B6rfunk&page=0&size=0
... a nice JSON file with everything you need in it. Bravo, Austria.

I'm unaware of any other lists from any other country - but my observations are:

There are no lists from Germany (where broadcasting is organised per state) or Norway.

In Canada - where I type this - they'll point you to an algorithm for how to calculate an RDS PI code, but they'll not tell you that the algorithm isn't used by most of the broadcasters; and the PI code is not a regulated part of the broadcast structure in that country. Canadian broadcasters typically run their own transmission equipment, unlike in Europe where a third-party transmission company is often used.

In Australia, there is an agreement but no regulation; ACMA listings are relatively exhaustive in terms of transmitter parameters - there's a 6GB file available on the website - but no data on PI codes that I could find.

In my experience, data is easier to get for countries with DAB transmissions (since the multiplex operator has them) than for FM RDS transmissions. Where a third-party transmission provider is used, as is in the case in many European countries, data should be available in some form from them, perhaps.

The two more universal sources are FMlist and Wonhort. The latter is quite out-dated in many parts of the world (not least my home city of Brisbane).

I did build an app for the LG Stylus DAB+ (also known as the LG Stylus 2) that scans the DAB spectrum to aid discovery of SIDs and EIDs. My plan was to make it also scan the FM band, but unfortunately the pre-release hardware I have does not allow access to the FM API within the device. In any case, the device is no longer available. The app is at https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=land.crid.james.radioscanner if you have the right product to use it on.

What would be very good is an open web service that transforms data like Ofcom's spreadsheet or the RTR's JSON feed - and other sources of information - into one identically formatted global dataset. I've long advocated for an open directory of this information for the good of the industry, and I'm keen to see renewed interest in it.

//j


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Ulrik Brinck

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Nov 25, 2018, 10:45:47 AM11/25/18
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I did build an app for the LG Stylus DAB+ (also known as the LG Stylus 2) that scans the DAB spectrum to aid discovery of SIDs and EIDs. My plan was to make it also scan the FM band, but unfortunately the pre-release hardware I have does not allow access to the FM API within the device. In any case, the device is no longer available. The app is at https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=land.crid.james.radioscanner if you have the right product to use it on.
 
Thank you, James! I have an LG Stylus 2, and I've always wanted an app which could do this. Had I just known about your app before ;-), but now I have it, and actually it has just mailed you a scanning report from here. :-)
 
Well, back to topic:
Canadian broadcasters typically run their own transmission equipment, unlike in Europe where a third-party transmission company is often used.
 
It probably varies from one european country to another. Here in Denmark, broadcasters also typically run their own transmission equipment, on FM and regional, commercial DAB. There is however on exception: For nationwide, commercial DAB, there is one operator (Teracom) who has a gatekeeper license. Stations who want to broadcast nationwide, commercial radio on DAB, can book space in Teracom's mux.
 
As mentioned earlier in the thread, for Denmark there is a list of assigned PI codes for local/regional FM. However, where multiple transmitter chains are broadcasting the same content (networking), they are allowed to use the same PI code throughout the full network, and it's their own decision, which of the assigned PI codes they will use. Also, the 2nd nibble of the PI code is not assigned, but open for themselves to choose (between 4 and F).
 
Best regards,
Ulrik.
 
 
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