Qubes 4 Release Date

[qub...@tutanota.com]

Back in July 16 Joanna announced (http://qubesos4rrrrz6n4.onion/news/2016/07/21/new-hw-certification-for-q4) that Qubes 4 was due to be released later that year in Sept 16.
Has Qubes 4 been scrapped? Anyone any idea if/when it will be released?

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[7v5w7go9ub0o]

On 03/07/2017 08:04 AM, qub...@tutanota.com wrote:
> Back in July 16 Joanna announced (http://qubesos4rrrrz6n4.onion/news/2016/07/21/new-hw-certification-for-q4) that Qubes 4 was due to be released later that year in Sept 16.
> Has Qubes 4 been scrapped? Anyone any idea if/when it will be released?

Their priority is to get it right; their response to
questions/complaints like this have historically been that it'll be
released when it's ready.

Given the number of users now using or wanting to use Qubes, the range
of their technical abilities, and that the new users want to use Qv4 as
plug-and-play full production, ITL would be smart to take their time on
releases from now on and get them *very* right.

[raah...@gmail.com]

I think most new users want more passthrough like gpu. IMO if I want to be secure on my pc i try to avoid those things. I have a separate machine for gaming for example. But I guess the idea of qubes is to be able to do risky things more securely in isolated manner and is originally aimed at home users.

[lok...@gmail.com]

Didn't the Linux kernel gain VGPU support recently? The whole point of that feature is to allow VM's to take advantage of the GPU. Couldn't that be supported in Qubes?

[sm8ax1]

(CCing xen-users - please reply all but be careful not to
cross-contaminate lists with off-topic stuff)

lok...@gmail.com:

I don't know anything about this, but from a quick search it sounds like
vGPU is only supported on machines running Citrix XenDesktop with a
supported nVidia (GRID K1 or K2) cards. Even if it is supported by
vanilla Xen, I don't think it works on ATI or Intel GPUs, but I could be
wrong. If anyone knows more about this please share.

https://www.nvidia.com/object/xendesktop-vgpu.html
https://www.nvidia.com/object/grid-technology.html
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/GPU+and+vGPU+support+for+CloudStack+Guest+VMs
https://gridforums.nvidia.com/default/topic/479/general-discussion/vgpu-support-/

There is also virtio-gpu, which is a virtual, hardware-independent GPU
driver supported by KVM. It's in active development and has been covered
by a lot of sources, so I assume it's becoming pretty reliable. As far
as I can tell, it is only meant to work with SPICE, but in theory could
outperform the software rendering we're doing now. It appears to be
supported by Xen (at least HVMs) via QEMU. I think the QXL driver is
similar.

https://www.kraxel.org/blog/tag/virtio-gpu/
https://lists.gt.net/xen/devel/406512

In theory I suppose Qubes could one day replace its existing
software-rendering with SPICE and virtio-gpu or QXL, but it's not clear
if it would result in any significant performance gain (i.e. if SPICE's
network protocol and virtio-gpu/qxl-to-native rendering would actually
be faster than software rendering over a vchan).

GPU passthru is something that comes up on the Xen mailing list fairly
regularly, but getting it to work is very hit-or-miss. I've tried it
with several Intel HD series GPUs and have never been able to make it
work personally.

https://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Xen_PCI_Passthrough
https://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_VGA_Passthrough
https://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_VGA_Passthrough_Tested_Adapters

Even if you passthru the GPU, however, it won't passthru the PS/2 mouse
and keyboard, although that would probably be easy to work around (like
Qubes already does).

And of course the long-awaited XenGT is an idea to build virtualization
support into Intel GPU hardware. It would allow the GPU to be passed
through to multiple VMs at a time, for direct rendering/acceleration of
multiple windows. I call it an idea because it's several years in the
making and as far as I know it's still not mainlined, hasn't received a
commit since January 2015, and still no GPUs actually support it.

https://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/XenGT
https://blog.xenproject.org/2014/03/11/xen-graphics-virtualization-xengt/
https://01.org/xen/blogs/srclarkx/2013/graphics-virtualization-xengt

For the sake of completeness, paravirtualized DRM was arguably perhaps
our best approach for accelerated graphics, at least on Linux, but it
appears to have been abandoned.

https://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Paravirtualized_DRM

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[Andrew David Wong]

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7v5w7go9ub0o is correct. Qubes 4.0 development is alive and well, but
nothing will be released before it's good and ready.

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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[metal...@gmail.com]

With all due respect, the answer you provided is quite as vauge as usual. I think alot of us are waiting to learn the new Qubes 4.0. I for one have been holding off for quite some time now because of finding out about Qubes and hearing there may be substantial changes to Qubes in the upcoming release. Speaking for myself I would like to know the status of development? Is it at 32%, 50%, or further along than we are allowed to know? I believe in the mission yet left feeling like we as the users are being treated like how mushrooms grow. Please keep us informed more. Thanks to Qubes developers for trying there best

[jaspers...@gmail.com]

> With all due respect, the answer you provided is quite as vauge as usual. I think alot of us are waiting to learn the new Qubes 4.0. I for one have been holding off for quite some time now because of finding out about Qubes and hearing there may be substantial changes to Qubes in the upcoming release. Speaking for myself I would like to know the status of development? Is it at 32%, 50%, or further along than we are allowed to know? I believe in the mission yet left feeling like we as the users are being treated like how mushrooms grow. Please keep us informed more. Thanks to Qubes developers for trying there best

So why wait? Start with 3.2. I don't see the big deal here. For every software package there is always some next great release in the air.

Unless your implementing something you have implemented a thousand times (say deploying some piece of ERP software) any form of estimate, time, % done, etc. will always be a lie because you simply can't tell.

[Franz]

yes, you are right. And we have always been able to backup our VMs and restore them in the next release, so I have no reason to doubt it will happen again moving to release 4. So which is the reason to wait? On the other hand why putting pressure on developers on something that mostly requires just calm, and willingness to rethink everything for new reasons or discoveries? You have to trust developers anyway, so simply trust they are doing the best they can.

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[Andrew David Wong]

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On 2017-04-29 18:34, metal...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 3:58:01 PM UTC-6, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> On 2017-03-07 08:37, 7v5w7go9ub0o wrote:
>>>> On 03/07/2017 08:04 AM, qub...@tutanota.com wrote:
>>>>> Back in July 16 Joanna announced
>>>>> (http://qubesos4rrrrz6n4.onion/news/2016/07/21/new-hw-certification-for-q4)
>>>>> that Qubes 4 was due to be released later that year in Sept 16.
>>>>> Has Qubes 4 been scrapped? Anyone any idea if/when it will be
>>>>> released?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Their priority is to get it right; their response to
>>>> questions/complaints like this have historically been that it'll be
>>>> released when it's ready.
>>>>
>>>> Given the number of users now using or wanting to use Qubes, the
>>>> range of their technical abilities, and that the new users want to
>>>> use Qv4 as plug-and-play full production, ITL would be smart to
>>>> take their time on releases from now on and get them *very* right.
>>>>
>
> 7v5w7go9ub0o is correct. Qubes 4.0 development is alive and well, but
> nothing will be released before it's good and ready.
>
>

> With all due respect, the answer you provided is quite as vauge as usual. I think alot of us are waiting to learn the new Qubes 4.0. I for one have been holding off for quite some time now because of finding out about Qubes and hearing there may be substantial changes to Qubes in the upcoming release. Speaking for myself I would like to know the status of development? Is it at 32%, 50%, or further along than we are allowed to know? I believe in the mission yet left feeling like we as the users are being treated like how mushrooms grow. Please keep us informed more. Thanks to Qubes developers for trying there best
>

I've just learned that we expect to publish the first Qubes 4.0 release
candidate (4.0-rc1) in the next ~1-2 months.

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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[Jon Solworth]

I don't see any rush on releasing Qubes, it does after all have as its primary goal security, not release dates.

There is, however, a need to enable current hardware to run qubes. It would be great if a 3.2 unstable installer was available to enable kernels which work with current chipsets.

Is there anything available like this?

Jon

[Vít Šesták]

If you have issues with recent hardware, but you can install and boot it, you can try installing kernel from unstable repo. This version has resolved my issues.

The command from installing is cca: sudo qubes-dom0-update --enablerepo=qubes-dom0-unstable kernel, but I am writing it by heart, so there might be some minor mistakes.