Devilspie2 integration
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Hack
Feb 2, 2017, 4:05:14 PM2/2/17
to qubes...@googlegroups.com
Hi,
Could it be possible to provide Qubes OS with Devilspie2 at first install?
Like this, we could have, by default? some virtual desktops attributed
to some task.
For example:
* Desktop 1 = administration tasks (sys-firewall, sys-net, etc…)
* Desktop 2 = Personal
* Desktop 3 = Work
* and so on
Maybe with some color "matching" on the tool bars?
Of course, with the option to customize it.
Could it be possible to provide Qubes OS with Devilspie2 at first install?
Like this, we could have, by default? some virtual desktops attributed
to some task.
For example:
* Desktop 1 = administration tasks (sys-firewall, sys-net, etc…)
* Desktop 2 = Personal
* Desktop 3 = Work
* and so on
Maybe with some color "matching" on the tool bars?
Of course, with the option to customize it.
Andrew David Wong
Feb 2, 2017, 11:46:15 PM2/2/17
to Hack, qubes...@googlegroups.com
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This seems far too subjective to be built-in by default in a sensible
way, even with customization options. User preferences vary wildly.
Some don't even use virtual desktops at all.
Why not simply install Devilspie2 (or a similar program) yourself and
set up your own virtual desktops as you please, if that's what you desire?
- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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way, even with customization options. User preferences vary wildly.
Some don't even use virtual desktops at all.
Why not simply install Devilspie2 (or a similar program) yourself and
set up your own virtual desktops as you please, if that's what you desire?
- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Hack
Feb 3, 2017, 2:12:56 AM2/3/17
to qubes...@googlegroups.com
for people, like me, who use virtual desktops.
It can be provided as an option during the installation. Thereby, we
could have the choice of having Devilspie2 installed by default (1
virtual desktop by Domain), and then, customize it, or not having
Devilspie2 "activated".
Because I think, it can be a good idea, *not only for me*, I suggest this.
Andrew David Wong
Feb 3, 2017, 3:02:33 AM2/3/17
to Hack, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
On 2017-02-02 23:12, Hack wrote:
Hash: SHA512
> On 02/03/2017 05:46 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote: On 2017-02-02
> 12:54, Hack wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Could it be possible to provide Qubes OS with Devilspie2 at
>>>> first install?
>>>>
>>>> Like this, we could have, by default? some virtual desktops
>>>> attributed to some task.
>>>>
>>>> For example:
>>>>
>>>> * Desktop 1 = administration tasks (sys-firewall, sys-net,
>>>> etc…) * Desktop 2 = Personal * Desktop 3 = Work * and so on
>>>>
>>>> Maybe with some color "matching" on the tool bars?
>>>>
>>>> Of course, with the option to customize it.
>>>>
>
> This seems far too subjective to be built-in by default in a
> sensible way, even with customization options. User preferences
> vary wildly. Some don't even use virtual desktops at all.
>
> Why not simply install Devilspie2 (or a similar program) yourself
> and set up your own virtual desktops as you please, if that's what
> you desire?
>
>>
>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Could it be possible to provide Qubes OS with Devilspie2 at
>>>> first install?
>>>>
>>>> Like this, we could have, by default? some virtual desktops
>>>> attributed to some task.
>>>>
>>>> For example:
>>>>
>>>> * Desktop 1 = administration tasks (sys-firewall, sys-net,
>>>> etc…) * Desktop 2 = Personal * Desktop 3 = Work * and so on
>>>>
>>>> Maybe with some color "matching" on the tool bars?
>>>>
>>>> Of course, with the option to customize it.
>>>>
>
> This seems far too subjective to be built-in by default in a
> sensible way, even with customization options. User preferences
> vary wildly. Some don't even use virtual desktops at all.
>
> Why not simply install Devilspie2 (or a similar program) yourself
> and set up your own virtual desktops as you please, if that's what
> you desire?
>
>>
>
> Yes, of course I can install Devilspie2, but I think it can be
> useful for people, like me, who use virtual desktops.
>
> It can be provided as an option during the installation. Thereby,
> we could have the choice of having Devilspie2 installed by default
> (1 virtual desktop by Domain), and then, customize it, or not
> having Devilspie2 "activated".
>
> Because I think, it can be a good idea, *not only for me*, I
> suggest this.
>
The fact that the feature would be useful to more people than just you
> useful for people, like me, who use virtual desktops.
>
> It can be provided as an option during the installation. Thereby,
> we could have the choice of having Devilspie2 installed by default
> (1 virtual desktop by Domain), and then, customize it, or not
> having Devilspie2 "activated".
>
> Because I think, it can be a good idea, *not only for me*, I
> suggest this.
>
is not, by itself, a sufficient reason for its inclusion in the
default installation. As a heavy user of virtual desktops, I, too,
would enjoy having this feature. However, I also understand that
adding non-security features that are only useful for a subset of
users increases the attack surface of Qubes for the sake of my own
convenience at the cost of others. If we were to include in the
default installation every feature that some subset of users finds
desirable, Qubes would suffer greatly from the consequent software
bloat and feature creep. We must take a disciplined approach in order
to prevent this.
Moreover, making a feature "optional" does not excuse it from these
considerations. As Joanna put it, "We don't really want to make (or
support even) 101 addons to Qubes, each of those weakening some part
of the system, so that if one installs all of them you end up with
something worse than if you used Android or XP ;)":
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qubes-devel/TQr_QcXIVww/T4BGPjakt8QJ
- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Hack
Feb 3, 2017, 4:31:25 AM2/3/17
to qubes...@googlegroups.com
—help to enforce the good practice, with a good organization
–taking into consideration color blind people (do not ignore disable
people!)
–if a bug corrupts the windows color, well it could help.
–if a bug corrupts the "Devilspie2" integration, well window colors
could help
–etc…
Oleg Artemiev
Feb 4, 2017, 8:52:26 PM2/4/17
to qubes-devel, mister...@outlook.com
Hello
On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 11:02:33 AM UTC+3, Andrew David Wong wrote:
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Hash: SHA512
On 2017-02-02 23:12, Hack wrote:
>>>>> Could it be possible to provide Qubes OS with Devilspie2 at
>>>> first install?
>As Joanna put it, "We don't really want to make (or
>support even) 101 addons to Qubes, each of those weakening some part
>of the system, so that if one installs all of them you end up with
>something worse than if you used Android or XP ;)":
In general everyone using qubes (at least qubes 3.0 is using virtual desktops) uses virtual desktops: Xfce has virtual desktops and KDE has.
KDE has ability to stick application to a desktop from the box, but KDE is heavy and is not a default choice for Qubes anymore.
why do we use operating systems at all? Because them provide some set of default pretty functionality/environment from the box.
Why each time I power down my PC and power it up back I have to waste time on placing windows between desktops?
Why the hell I can't power on and smoke then get back and see everything same way organised as I had on my last power up?
The only thing I would like is having choice on restore as it was and run new session. People at firefox made good work and algorithm is well known, why not to apply this to Qubes:
On start show what is going to be started,
if user chooses "restore last state" - exactly that set left at session abort/power off is shown, if user is in doubt - new tab is always available.
if user doesn't want to start same or partial set - give him/her clean new session.
What a problem to do same way w/ desktop placement and VM autorun?
People spend a lot of time starting same things on next power up. Firefox behaviour in case when firefox configured "restore previouse state" and was killed/aborted is best behaviour I've seen on restoring workspace.
Locking application to some desktop set is a very good feature and, afair and adding this functionality via some utility in Dom0 default package set is work in progress for current qubes. Just choose one app we're okay with, hug it
with qubes vm manager and users will love ability to use it. :) I don't vote for this one utility - I vote for similar functionality available to user _by_default_ .
Having preconfigured virtual default is good thing - by default Xfce has desktops.
Why not to save time for a lot of people and provide an option similar to firefox - "restore last state" -> yes, no, hold_on_and_open_new_session ?
yes -> start same set ov VMs on same desktops them were opened at
no -> forget about last session settings, start new clean session
hold_on_and_open_new_session - copy somewhere a backup of what was started and open a new clean session
As about sticky desktops:
I'd like to have ability to assign desktop set for a single VM or a color via some GUI utility (tired of doing admin work - prefer GUI interfaces for GUI configuration).
KDE has ability to stick application to a desktop from the box, but KDE is heavy and is not a default choice for Qubes anymore.
why do we use operating systems at all? Because them provide some set of default pretty functionality/environment from the box.
Why each time I power down my PC and power it up back I have to waste time on placing windows between desktops?
Why the hell I can't power on and smoke then get back and see everything same way organised as I had on my last power up?
The only thing I would like is having choice on restore as it was and run new session. People at firefox made good work and algorithm is well known, why not to apply this to Qubes:
On start show what is going to be started,
if user chooses "restore last state" - exactly that set left at session abort/power off is shown, if user is in doubt - new tab is always available.
if user doesn't want to start same or partial set - give him/her clean new session.
What a problem to do same way w/ desktop placement and VM autorun?
People spend a lot of time starting same things on next power up. Firefox behaviour in case when firefox configured "restore previouse state" and was killed/aborted is best behaviour I've seen on restoring workspace.
Locking application to some desktop set is a very good feature and, afair and adding this functionality via some utility in Dom0 default package set is work in progress for current qubes. Just choose one app we're okay with, hug it
with qubes vm manager and users will love ability to use it. :) I don't vote for this one utility - I vote for similar functionality available to user _by_default_ .
Having preconfigured virtual default is good thing - by default Xfce has desktops.
Why not to save time for a lot of people and provide an option similar to firefox - "restore last state" -> yes, no, hold_on_and_open_new_session ?
yes -> start same set ov VMs on same desktops them were opened at
no -> forget about last session settings, start new clean session
hold_on_and_open_new_session - copy somewhere a backup of what was started and open a new clean session
As about sticky desktops:
I'd like to have ability to assign desktop set for a single VM or a color via some GUI utility (tired of doing admin work - prefer GUI interfaces for GUI configuration).
Andrew David Wong
Feb 5, 2017, 7:28:35 AM2/5/17
to Oleg Artemiev, qubes-devel, mister...@outlook.com
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Hash: SHA512
On 2017-02-04 17:52, Oleg Artemiev wrote:
> Hello
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 11:02:33 AM UTC+3, Andrew David Wong
> wrote:
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
>>
>> On 2017-02-02 23:12, Hack wrote:
>>>>>>> Could it be possible to provide Qubes OS with
>>>>>>> Devilspie2 at
>>>>>> first install?
>>> As Joanna put it, "We don't really want to make (or support
>>> even) 101 addons to Qubes, each of those weakening some part of
>>> the system, so that if one installs all of them you end up with
>>> something worse than if you used Android or XP ;)":
>>
> In general everyone using qubes (at least qubes 3.0 is using
> virtual desktops) uses virtual desktops: Xfce has virtual desktops
> and KDE has.
Just because they're included in the DE by default doesn't mean
> Hello
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 11:02:33 AM UTC+3, Andrew David Wong
> wrote:
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
>>
>> On 2017-02-02 23:12, Hack wrote:
>>>>>>> Could it be possible to provide Qubes OS with
>>>>>>> Devilspie2 at
>>>>>> first install?
>>> As Joanna put it, "We don't really want to make (or support
>>> even) 101 addons to Qubes, each of those weakening some part of
>>> the system, so that if one installs all of them you end up with
>>> something worse than if you used Android or XP ;)":
>>
> In general everyone using qubes (at least qubes 3.0 is using
> virtual desktops) uses virtual desktops: Xfce has virtual desktops
> and KDE has.
everyone uses them.
> KDE has ability to stick application to a desktop from the box, but
> KDE is heavy and is not a default choice for Qubes anymore.
>
> why do we use operating systems at all? Because them provide some
> set of default pretty functionality/environment from the box.
>
> Why each time I power down my PC and power it up back I have to
> waste time on placing windows between desktops?
>
>
> Why the hell I can't power on and smoke then get back and see
> everything same way organised as I had on my last power up?
>
your setup. (Remember, the foregoing discussion is about whether it
should be installed *by default*.)
> The only thing I would like is having choice on restore as it was
> and run new session. People at firefox made good work and algorithm
> is well known, why not to apply this to Qubes:
>
> On start show what is going to be started, if user chooses "restore
> last state" - exactly that set left at session abort/power off is
> shown, if user is in doubt - new tab is always available. if user
> doesn't want to start same or partial set - give him/her clean new
> session.
>
> What a problem to do same way w/ desktop placement and VM autorun?
>
>
> People spend a lot of time starting same things on next power up.
> Firefox behaviour in case when firefox configured "restore
> previouse state" and was killed/aborted is best behaviour I've seen
> on restoring workspace.
>
a patch?
> Locking application to some desktop set is a very good feature and,
> afair and adding this functionality via some utility in Dom0
> default package set is work in progress for current qubes. Just
> choose one app we're okay with, hug it with qubes vm manager and
> users will love ability to use it. :) I don't vote for this one
> utility - I vote for similar functionality available to user
> _by_default_ .
>
approach in deciding which features get included by default. If we
include by default everything that everyone wants, Qubes will suffer
from the consequent software bloat and feature creep.
We must resist the temptation to push for the default inclusion of
features simply because *we* like them. There has to be a stronger
reason than that. We have to ask ourselves the hard questions: Why do
you want it to be the default? To save you from having to configure it
yourself? Because you think other people should share your personal
preferences?
Also, why is it so important to restrict certain domains to certain
virtual desktops? Why not just place those windows on that virtual
desktop if you want to, and not place any other ones there? Why does
it have to be enforced by the OS?
Please don't take offense to these questions. I'm just trying to
encourage you to articulate the rationale underlying your suggestions.
> Having preconfigured virtual default is good thing - by default
> Xfce has desktops.
>
> Why not to save time for a lot of people and provide an option
> similar to firefox - "restore last state" -> yes, no,
> hold_on_and_open_new_session ?
>
> yes -> start same set ov VMs on same desktops them were opened at
>
> no -> forget about last session settings, start new clean
> session
>
> hold_on_and_open_new_session - copy somewhere a backup of what was
> started and open a new clean session
>
> As about sticky desktops: I'd like to have ability to assign
> desktop set for a single VM or a color via some GUI utility (tired
> of doing admin work - prefer GUI interfaces for GUI
> configuration).
>
- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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