Qubes R2 Beta 3 has been released

[Joanna Rutkowska]

The wait is over! Qubes R2 Beta 3 is finally out :)

Highlights of this release are discussed in this announcement post:

http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.com/2013/12/qubes-r2-beta-3-has-been-released.html

Cheers,
joanna.

ps. When responding to this message please reply only to one mailing
list (devel or users).

[Eduardo Robles Elvira]

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Hello:

This is my first message to this list, and I think that after having
upgraded my Thinkpad X220 to a SSD and to 12GB of RAM, I'll give
qubes-os a go.

I'm surprised that the website doesn't use https (and HSTS), and when
you enter via https, it shows an expired certificate. How are we
suppose to trust this for example?
https://qubes-os.org/trac/wiki/VerifyingSignatures Anyway, I know
https is far from perfect, just giving a heads up. I guess you most
problably know this.

Regards,
- --
Eduardo Robles Elvira, +34 668 824 393, https://agoravoting.com
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[Alex Dubois]

Congratulations. Fantastic work.

Do you have a donation page. Qubes is my main OS now, and would be happy to make a contribution.

 Alex

[Joanna Rutkowska]

On 12/11/13 01:57, Eduardo Robles Elvira wrote:
> On 11/12/13 00:18, Joanna Rutkowska wrote:
>> The wait is over! Qubes R2 Beta 3 is finally out :)
>
>> Highlights of this release are discussed in this announcement
>> post:
>
>> http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.com/2013/12/qubes-r2-beta-3-has-been-released.html
>
>> Cheers, joanna.
>
>> ps. When responding to this message please reply only to one
>> mailing list (devel or users).
>
> Hello:
>
> This is my first message to this list, and I think that after having
> upgraded my Thinkpad X220 to a SSD and to 12GB of RAM, I'll give
> qubes-os a go.
>
> I'm surprised that the website doesn't use https (and HSTS), and when
> you enter via https, it shows an expired certificate. How are we
> suppose to trust this for example?
> https://qubes-os.org/trac/wiki/VerifyingSignatures Anyway, I know
> https is far from perfect, just giving a heads up. I guess you most
> problably know this.
>

Contrary to what they might have told you, https is not something that
provides for much of trust -- e.g. its weak point is that one must trst
the server, as well as the whole PKI infrastructure. Note that Qubes ISO
images are distributed via mirrors (mainly from sf.net) which we cannot
control anyway.

Also, search this list for prior discussions on why we don't use https.

joanna.

[Eduardo Robles Elvira]

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On 11/12/13 10:08, Joanna Rutkowska wrote:
> Contrary to what they might have told you, https is not something
> that provides for much of trust -- e.g. its weak point is that one
> must trst the server, as well as the whole PKI infrastructure. Note
> that Qubes ISO images are distributed via mirrors (mainly from
> sf.net) which we cannot control anyway.
>
> Also, search this list for prior discussions on why we don't use
> https.
>
> joanna.
>

Hello:

Ok, sorry to raise a previous (and recent!) topic [1]. Yeah, the NSA &
friends are probably watching and can do a MITM anyhow, forging a
certificate that looks legit to most browsers using a widely-accepted
but compromised CA.

Which makes me wonder.. have you thought about setting up a tor .onion
address? Given the very security-minded people that want might to use
Qubes, and given that you even have a TorVM, it could make sense.

Regards,
- --
[1] this one, right?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/qubes-devel/PKI$20https/qubes-devel/lvVUSRK-O7o/QGPot-9IYMEJ

- --
Eduardo Robles Elvira, +34 668 824 393, https://agoravoting.com
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[Joanna Rutkowska]

On 12/11/13 10:21, Eduardo Robles Elvira wrote:
> On 11/12/13 10:08, Joanna Rutkowska wrote:
>> Contrary to what they might have told you, https is not something
>> that provides for much of trust -- e.g. its weak point is that one
>> must trst the server, as well as the whole PKI infrastructure. Note
>> that Qubes ISO images are distributed via mirrors (mainly from
>> sf.net) which we cannot control anyway.
>
>> Also, search this list for prior discussions on why we don't use
>> https.
>
>> joanna.
>
> Hello:
>
> Ok, sorry to raise a previous (and recent!) topic [1]. Yeah, the NSA &
> friends are probably watching and can do a MITM anyhow, forging a
> certificate that looks legit to most browsers using a widely-accepted
> but compromised CA.
>
> Which makes me wonder.. have you thought about setting up a tor .onion
> address? Given the very security-minded people that want might to use
> Qubes, and given that you even have a TorVM, it could make sense.

I don't see how it would make any sense.

Qubes integrity is already completely independent from the
infrastructure thanks to extensive use of digital signatures everywhere
(git, rpms, ISOs). We always assume all our servers (git, yum, ISO
serving) are all compromised. All you need is to very the Qubes Master
Singing key, and that you can do via many sources as explained in the
wiki and on the mailing list here.

joanna.

[cprise]

Congrats and kudos; We've been eagerly awaiting another release!

The HVM template feature is really interesting, especially since it
results in a system default where no data/changes are retained. I've
long thought that would be an excellent way to have Windows behave. ;)
Do the mechanics of these hvm-template volumes work just like regular
templates (don't remember if the latter is based on COW, Union or
something else)? One thing that kind of scares me about template vms is
that you can start them while their dependent vms are also running.

Dynamic screen resolution - I am all over that! :) Will be putting it
through its paces soon.

Does anyone know if something was done about the lack of pointer
scrolling support when running Linux HVMs? That one always gets me in a
'DOH!' moment...

I was ambivalent about getting a more complex backup scheme, preferring
a simple non-networked model. However I can now see where backing up to
a NAS would be handy while travelling.

The other new features sound like things I would like to use at some
point as well.

This is more of a concern for the instructions in the wiki, so I see his
point. Yes, having a CA-verified cert is like "whatever" to most people,
but it does make the jobs of 'powerful attacker' considerably harder if,
for example, they want to omit a step or small parameter in a document.
OTOH, techies tend to wrinkle their noses when they see an expired cert.

I suggest putting a fresh self-signed cert up instead, and sign the
fingerprint for that in a mailing list message.

As Bruce Schneier, Tim Berners-Lee and others have stated recently, the
Internet is being attacked. Lets throw sand in the gears of mass
surveillance and automated attacks where we can.

[Outback Dingo]

Sad to report that a fresh install, though it installs fine, refuses to load any applications the way Im normally used to seeing it

If I click say personal firefox in the menu, i used to see the domain actually start, then firefox would load in a window, ive updated

the template and the domU even after a fresh install of the new release. The firefox button shows in the menu bar then just goes away

Ive tried numerous apps, terminal file manager firefox, open office.... which are the defaults... un fortunately non-work.... as Im used to

I then reinstalled clean from the same usb image and to no avail..... same issue...... has anyone else seen issues with a fresh install ???

 

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[Franz]

Everything seems to work with a Lenovo x 230. Even after dom0 update, I could not run the HCL script, because it stops on line 47 and does not find the VM to write the report.

The only issue up to now seems an old customized template based on fedora 17 that does not connect anymore to internet. The same happens for a userVM depending on it. But the same userVM does connect to internet if I make it dependent on default r2b3 template.  So may be fedora 17 is simply no more compatible with r2b3.

best

Franz

[Olivier Médoc]

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Everything seems to work with a Lenovo x 230. Even after dom0 update, I could not run the HCL script, because it stops on line 47 and does not find the VM to write the report.

The only issue up to now seems an old customized template based on fedora 17 that does not connect anymore to internet. The same happens for a userVM depending on it. But the same userVM does connect to internet if I make it dependent on default r2b3 template.  So may be fedora 17 is simply no more compatible with r2b3.

best

Franz

In beta3, several things changed:
- The API for inter-vm communication (dom0<>appvms and appvms<>dom0<>appvms) slightly changed, but several things should be compatible between the two versions.
- The variables name used to communicate things such as IP adresses to the appvms changed (xenstore variables). In fact '-' have been replaced with '_' in the variable names, which probably break you network settings.

Two solution can be tried:
- update the qubes-agents of your fedora17 to the last agents
- try to fix manually the variable names in the scripts used by qubes (you can check all the sed commands I had to use in archlinux : http://qubes-os.org/trac/wiki/BuildingArchlinuxTemplate). Note that you need to reverse all the '-_' characters compared to my example (eg: qubes_vm_type:qubes-vm-type instead of qubes-vm-type:qubes_vm_type)

[Hakisho Nukama]

Qubes R2-Beta3 woes:

- no USB-Devices in installer with kernel 3.11:

The Qubes R2-Beta3 installer works with kernel version 3.7 and 3.9,
but 3.11 would prevent USB-devices from working properly.

I've installed it with USB -> PS/2 adapters and now I'm able to run
the 3.11 kernel.
Now the USB-Devices work, but only in grub and after boot-up.
So I can't input my luks pass-phrase with a USB-keyboard.

Does someone experience the same trouble, and can give me a hint?


- Terminal re-sizes:

Template and AppVM terminal size is shrunk (to minimal size if manually resized)
I realized, I can't live without a CLI...
This does only happen in plasma and plasma-failsafe.
XFCE works fine.


Thanks for this release, great work so far.

Best Regards,
Hakisho Nukama

[cprise]

On 12/12/13 17:01, Hakisho Nukama wrote:
> Qubes R2-Beta3 woes: - no USB-Devices in installer with kernel 3.11:
> The Qubes R2-Beta3 installer works with kernel version 3.7 and 3.9,
> but 3.11 would prevent USB-devices from working properly. I've
> installed it with USB -> PS/2 adapters and now I'm able to run the
> 3.11 kernel. Now the USB-Devices work, but only in grub and after
> boot-up. So I can't input my luks pass-phrase with a USB-keyboard.
> Does someone experience the same trouble, and can give me a hint?

> - Terminal re-sizes: Template and AppVM terminal size is shrunk (to
> minimal size if manually resized) I realized, I can't live without a
> CLI... This does only happen in plasma and plasma-failsafe. XFCE works
> fine. Thanks for this release, great work so far. Best Regards,
> Hakisho Nukama

I've had a similar problem with terminal resizing in R2B2. Usually it
happens when I open a second tab (only in an appvm gnome-terminal).

[pasca...@gmail.com]

Really great release !
I haven't been able to test the beta 2 because of the kernel version.
I love this feature of choosing between the kernels.
For my laptop only the 3.9 works so I hope you keep all these kernels in the next versions of Qubes.
Thank you for this great work ! You should do marketing and you'll be the OS number 1

[clew...@gmail.com]

I just finished a fresh install, and had the same problem with the menu icons not working.  On installation, I chose KDE Only.  I did some digging around and found that the qvm-run script has a problem.  When specifying the --tray option (like the menu icons do), the script crashes with an error saying org.freedesktop.Notifications was not provided by any service files.

I commented out the following lines from the qvm-run script, and the script no longer crashes:
if options.tray:
  global notify_object
  notify_object = dbus.SessionBus().get_object("org.freedesktop.Notifications", "/org.freedesktop/Notifications")

of course, I also no longer receive the tray message stating which VM's are being started, not that I mind. Hope this helps.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-devel...@googlegroups.com.

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

On 15.12.2013 12:42, clew...@gmail.com wrote:
> I just finished a fresh install, and had the same problem with the menu
> icons not working. On installation, I chose KDE Only. I did some digging
> around and found that the qvm-run script has a problem. When specifying
> the --tray option (like the menu icons do), the script crashes with an
> error saying org.freedesktop.Notifications was not provided by any service
> files.
>
> I commented out the following lines from the qvm-run script, and the script
> no longer crashes:
> if options.tray:
> global notify_object
> notify_object =
> dbus.SessionBus().get_object("org.freedesktop.Notifications",
> "/org.freedesktop/Notifications")
>
> of course, I also no longer receive the tray message stating which VM's are
> being started, not that I mind. Hope this helps.

It looks like you've removed notification widget from KDE taskbar. In any case
this error handling could be done better...

--
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[Outback Dingo]

On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 6:42 AM, <clew...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just finished a fresh install, and had the same problem with the menu icons not working.  On installation, I chose KDE Only.  I did some digging around and found that the qvm-run script has a problem.  When specifying the --tray option (like the menu icons do), the script crashes with an error saying org.freedesktop.Notifications was not provided by any service files.

I commented out the following lines from the qvm-run script, and the script no longer crashes:
if options.tray:
  global notify_object
  notify_object = dbus.SessionBus().get_object("org.freedesktop.Notifications", "/org.freedesktop/Notifications")

of course, I also no longer receive the tray message stating which VM's are being started, not that I mind. Hope this helps.

So your saying this fixes the app vms loading and the application will now start ???

[clew...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, December 15, 2013 10:22:32 AM UTC-5, Outback Dingo wrote:

On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 6:42 AM, <clew...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just finished a fresh install, and had the same problem with the menu icons not working.  On installation, I chose KDE Only.  I did some digging around and found that the qvm-run script has a problem.  When specifying the --tray option (like the menu icons do), the script crashes with an error saying org.freedesktop.Notifications was not provided by any service files.

I commented out the following lines from the qvm-run script, and the script no longer crashes:
if options.tray:
  global notify_object
  notify_object = dbus.SessionBus().get_object("org.freedesktop.Notifications", "/org.freedesktop/Notifications")

of course, I also no longer receive the tray message stating which VM's are being started, not that I mind. Hope this helps.

So your saying this fixes the app vms loading and the application will now start ???

 

It's just a workaround, but it does let the appvm start.  you might also have to comment out this line:
notify_function = tray_notify_generic if options.tray else None,

actually, I'm gonna keep looking at this.  commenting the line above might be the only thing you need to change, but I don't remember it being there until I did a software update on dom0.  Also, I don't know if this is only because I selected a kde only install.

[clew...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the info.  I did remove the battery widget, but I did not remove the notification widget.  You are correct, though, the notification widget was not selected in the panel.  I added it in, but the script still crashes with the error.  It looks a little different this time, either due to the notification widget being activated or due to a software update on dom0.  Here's the error message I get now:
file "/usr/bin/qvm-run", line 44, in tray_notify
  notify_object.Notify("Qubes", 0, label.icon, "Qubes", str, [], [], timeout, dbus_interface="org.freedesktop.Notifications")
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'Notify'

Any ideas what is going on here?

  

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

On 15.12.2013 22:38, clew...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> On Sunday, December 15, 2013 8:42:11 AM UTC-5, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> wrote:
>>

This time it is because commented out code...

BTW Here is qvm-run with this issue fixed:
http://git.qubes-os.org/?p=marmarek/core-admin.git;a=blob_plain;f=qvm-tools/qvm-run;h=99d64ae82871280957d36751e727aeda2bdee08c;hb=177c40d18fbff4830ee6a6a61e473a208a4cc3ec

And here is fix itself:
http://git.qubes-os.org/?p=marmarek/core-admin.git;a=commitdiff;h=177c40d18fbff4830ee6a6a61e473a208a4cc3ec

New package will be released soon.

[clew...@gmail.com]

Freakin' Sweet!!!!!  Thanks so much for that new qvm-run script, it works perfectly!

[clew...@gmail.com]

 
Disregard my previous recommendations.  Check Marek's posts for the real fix. Basically just double-check that you have the Notifications widget in your system tray (and add it if it's missing), and use the new qvm-run script that Marek provided. 

Thanks again Marek!

[Outback Dingo]

i reinstalled with the kde /xfce option and actually KDE works fine

after install i logged into xfce, then updated domU and templates

then logged out and logged back into KDE, it all works, so I dont think qvm-run is

the issue, its like its missing a package or process on the KDE only install

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

Still haven't figured out why gnome-terminal is doing that. Probably something
with window properties (border size?).

Known workaround is to disable scrollbar and menubar.

[Andrew Sorensen]

On 12/15/13 15:16, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On 13.12.2013 02:01, cprise wrote:
>> On 12/12/13 17:01, Hakisho Nukama wrote:
>>> Qubes R2-Beta3 woes: - no USB-Devices in installer with kernel 3.11: The
>>> Qubes R2-Beta3 installer works with kernel version 3.7 and 3.9, but 3.11
>>> would prevent USB-devices from working properly. I've installed it with USB
>>> -> PS/2 adapters and now I'm able to run the 3.11 kernel. Now the
>>> USB-Devices work, but only in grub and after boot-up. So I can't input my
>>> luks pass-phrase with a USB-keyboard. Does someone experience the same
>>> trouble, and can give me a hint?
>>> - Terminal re-sizes: Template and AppVM terminal size is shrunk (to minimal
>>> size if manually resized) I realized, I can't live without a CLI... This
>>> does only happen in plasma and plasma-failsafe. XFCE works fine. Thanks for
>>> this release, great work so far. Best Regards, Hakisho Nukama
>> I've had a similar problem with terminal resizing in R2B2. Usually it happens
>> when I open a second tab (only in an appvm gnome-terminal).
> Still haven't figured out why gnome-terminal is doing that. Probably something
> with window properties (border size?).
>
> Known workaround is to disable scrollbar and menubar.
>

Another workaround is to move the gnome-terminal window while it is
resizing. If you're quick you can set it to something slightly larger
than desired, and then move the window with the alt key when it is close
to the desired size.

[Axon]

Andrew Sorensen:

It's an old bug.[1][2] In KDE, a reliable workaround is to edit the
"Window-Specific Settings." There are two ways to get there:

1. Right click window title bar > More Actions > Special Window (or
Application) Settings... > Size & Position [tab].

or

2. System Settings > Window Behavior > Window Rules > New... > Size &
Position [tab].

(In either case, ensure that the rules on the "Window matching" tab
apply to all and only the windows you desire to affect.)

On the "Size & Position" tab, set the following:

Size: Apply Initially, [your desired coordinates]
Ignore requested geometry: Force, Yes
Obey geometry restrictions: Force, No

This has worked flawlessly for me for months. I never experience
shrinking-terminal syndrome on terminal windows captured by these settings.

[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=707664
[2] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=649680

[cprise]

On 12/15/13 18:16, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On 13.12.2013 02:01, cprise wrote:
>> I've had a similar problem with terminal resizing in R2B2. Usually it
>> happens when I open a second tab (only in an appvm gnome-terminal).
> Still haven't figured out why gnome-terminal is doing that. Probably something
> with window properties (border size?).
>
> Known workaround is to disable scrollbar and menubar.
>

Not sure if its from the upgrade or was there all along, but in b3 I
noticed that manually resizing a terminal window works if the mouse has
completely stopping moving before letting go of the mouse button; But if
the mouse is still moving when letting go of the button, the window will
resize to the smallest dimensions again.

[Danny Fullerton]

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Hash: SHA1

Axon, could you provide the settings you used to match Gnome Terminals
for all domains?

Seems like it's really tricky to get one rule to match the right
things as the windows are not really recognized as Gnome Terminals
(e.g. 'work work' window class).

If this really works and doesn't creates other problems I believe it
should be added to the default image until a real fix is found.

Thanks for the info.

- --
Danny Fullerton
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[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

Try to disable scrollbar and menubar, it works for me.

[Axon]

Danny Fullerton:

Yes, you're right. Actually, I haven't figured out a rule that captures
just the gnome-terminal, so I just apply the rule to the whole AppVM.
This works fine for TemplateVMs, where I almost always use the terminal
(and rarely run any other program). I generally don't use this method
for normal AppVMs since I use other programs much more often than the
terminal, so in those I just deal with the shrinking issue by manually
resizing. :(

[Axon]

Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:

Yes, this works for me, too. I also like how clean the terminal looks. :)

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

On 18.12.2013 05:52, Axon wrote:
> Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:

>> Try to disable scrollbar and menubar, it works for me.
>>
>
> Yes, this works for me, too. I also like how clean the terminal looks. :)

Do you know how to set it by default?
Perhaps similar method to this:
http://git.qubes-os.org/?p=marmarek/core-agent-linux.git;a=blob;f=misc/org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.updates.gschema.override;h=c6c7b45abed115ef86c49df35b493a3ebc67ae24;hb=HEAD

?

[Axon]

Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:

> On 18.12.2013 05:52, Axon wrote:
>> Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:
>>> Try to disable scrollbar and menubar, it works for me.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, this works for me, too. I also like how clean the terminal looks. :)
>
> Do you know how to set it by default?
> Perhaps similar method to this:
> http://git.qubes-os.org/?p=marmarek/core-agent-linux.git;a=blob;f=misc/org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.updates.gschema.override;h=c6c7b45abed115ef86c49df35b493a3ebc67ae24;hb=HEAD
>
> ?
>

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. So, that means I probably don't know
how to do it. :P

I just made the change in my TemplateVMs so that it will be inherited by
any new AppVMs. Might want to let users do this at their discretion if
they wish rather than making it default in Qubes, since some users may
rely on the menubar/scrollbar and expect them to be there. (OTOH, most
current Qubes users would probably rather just not have the annoying
shrinking window...)