Shen-on-Java 0.8.0

[jo...@mentics.com]

It's posted at the usual place linked from the Shen web site.

Changes include:
- self tail call optimization for do
- preliminary support for a subtyping form but... needs more work
- Language and platform code is now in the jar and not in the image,
so images are much smaller.
- Updated to Shen 9.0

The big change is that it now uses eclipse compiler for Java instead
of the standard Java compiler. It's faster and it means that it will
run with just a JRE and a JDK is not required to run it. That should
make it easier for many people to use.

It is compiled against Java 7 so you'll need at least that version if
you want to try it out.

Enjoy!

[Mark Tarver]

Indeed, the implementation appears to have gone closed source. I
waited to see if this was so. No reply has come to Artella's post
after 3 days.

We actually traded some views on this back in November. Anybody can
read what I said and I'm sure enough people remember. I gave you a
choice between closing the source for commercial gain and being a
sponsor for the time you were taking up or dispensing $free readable
source and getting free support.

https://groups.google.com/group/qilang/browse_frm/thread/3c9c8ceb10b36118/9127232bde7150ce?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=closed+source#9127232bde7150ce

I'm treating your platform as a closed source until I see something
online that tells me different. I'm sorry that you seem to have
ignored what I said back then. I'm not a soft touch Joel. Don't
ever think that. And I don't want a long exculpatory thread full of
arguments and 'what me?'. If I've got this wrong, I'm **really
sorry**. But until my downloads read differently, your port is closed
source and I will treat it as such. The quickest way to fix that is
to change the download.

Mark



On Apr 7, 11:32 am, Artella Coding <artella.cod...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> p.s. How does one create the jars using the sources? The reason is that I
> have noticed for quite a while that you have been updating the sources, and
> would have built my own jar file if I knew how. Thanks

[jo...@mentics.com]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Mark Tarver <dr.mt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Indeed, the implementation appears to have gone closed source. I
> waited to see if this was so.

I posted this all the way back in November. The source has been
publicly available ever since for anyone who wants to look at it. As
proof, Artella was specifically referring to having access to the
source and noticing it changing.

Here's my post:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/Qilang/assembla/qilang/gPlY6Tqfp3o/BQt6ZXcm3TYJ

Here's the source link again:
https://www.assembla.com/code/shen-on-java/git/nodes

> No reply has come to Artella's post after 3 days.

Wow, just three days and you jump to that conclusion?

I did respond to Artella's post yesterday, but it appears I did just a
reply and it only went to him and not to the list. Sorry about that.
I'll resend.

> sorry**. But until my downloads read differently, your port is closed
> source and I will treat it as such. The quickest way to fix that is
> to change the download.

What do you want changed in the download?

Do you want me to put the source in the download? That seems like a
waste of space. Most people are not going to want to look at the
source. Those that do can go visit the source link. That's the
standard way of releasing open source projects. You release a binary
zip and those who want the source get it through either source control
or a separate source zip.

[jo...@mentics.com]

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 2:39 AM, Artella Coding
<artella...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Filename : Hyphenpos.java
> COMPILED type(s)
> - Hyphenpos
> 1 PROBLEM(s) detected
> - Pb(231) Syntax error on token ".", Identifier expected after this token


Sorry about that. It's because the function name starts with a /

I'll try to get it resolved.

> p.s. How does one create the jars using the sources?

At this point it's still a little messy. I'm getting closer to a
cleaner build, but... The generated code is not checked in. You
have to generate the Java for the kl files, and for the port's shen
files. I hope someday to get it down to a simple one command build
and I've made progress, but... it's still a work in progress.

If you want, I could send the script I use to build but I have to
tweak it multiple times when regenerating, and for major upgrades I
have to cross compile some in shen-clisp and then some in shen-java
(due to stack overflow in shen-clisp) to get it to work.

[Artella Coding]

>I did respond to Artella's post yesterday, but it appears I did just a
>reply and it only went to him and not to the list. Sorry about that.
>I'll resend.

Hi Joel, actually the mail in my inbox showed that you cc'ed qil...@googlegroups.com and so I am surprised the reply didnt reach the forum. Maybe googlegroups marked the mail from mentics.com as spam, I'm not sure.

Also thanks for offering to send me the patching script, but I think I'll pass for the moment:) The only reason I wanted to build the jar was to test the new version (as I had noticed that you had been updating the sources at https://www.assembla.com/code/shen-on-java/git/nodes on a regular basis and didn't really want to pester you for a new jar) but after seeing your reply I think it's best left in the hands of a pro! Cheers.

[Mark Tarver]

At the moment, in and of itself, it is closed source. Very few people
would know they had to look up a conversation in November to find the
sources. Generated Java source code or the readable means to generate
it will do.

Sorry, but Artella raised the point in public and no reply got through
to moderation.

Mark

On 10 Apr, 20:34, j...@mentics.com wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Mark Tarver <dr.mtar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Indeed, the implementation appears to have gone closed source.  I
> > waited to see if this was so.
>
> I posted this all the way back in November. The source has been
> publicly available ever since for anyone who wants to look at it. As
> proof, Artella was specifically referring to having access to the
> source and noticing it changing.
>

> Here's my post:https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/Qilang/assembl...

[shaun gilchrist]

I hate to intrude.. but what is the apprehension with just throwing it up on github? The worst thing that is going to happen is the community could contribute to help improve things? I understand not wanting to let people see something before it is as clean as you already know you could make it... given the time... but the reality is the day never comes. 

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[Mark Tarver]

I'm not going to continue this thread, but the issue is not that the
source turns up on Github, but that it did not turn up in the download
and for whatever reason, no explanation was forthcoming to a public
question. I'll assume a technical glitch because I certainly got no
answer.

I really don't mind if the sources turn up in Github or the minutes
of the Women's Institute Meeting, as long as the download contains
them. You can't expect people to trawl around for this stuff.

Let's leave there.

Mark

[jo...@mentics.com]

> I really don't mind if the sources turn up in Github or the minutes
> of the Women's Institute Meeting, as long as the download contains
> them. You can't expect people to trawl around for this stuff.

I'm sorry I did not know that you expected to have the source in the
download. I just added it and put it up so it's in there now.

[Mark Tarver]

That's great. Let's move on from this.

Mark