Is Picochess going to get commercial?

[highw...@web.de]

On picochess.com there is a new Version 0.9p (license Version). You have to Register to get Access to it.

Is this the end of the free pricochess?

What about automatic updates?

Concerned

Volker

[Rudolf]

Yes, the end of the free picochess.

[Laterunner]

Version N is still on https://github.com/jromang/picochess.

Picochess has been forked by Jürgen Precour. Version P has been moved away from https://github.com/jromang/picochess.

Version P has to be installed from a different link ...

Jürgen did not comment his step. He should have done so.

Maybe he has his reasons.

Maybe Jean-Francois or Shivkumar will comment on this.

Maybe Jürgen has to make some money - who knows.

Anyway picochess should stay alive!  So why not contribute.

After all copy protection never really works.

Somewhat astonished about Jürgens step. We will get an answer ...

Laterunner 

[Jürgen Precour]

Dear picochess lovers,

i disagree that picochess will get commercial!
picochess is and stays free.

!!!
But im Jürgen not picochess and im tired to work for free.
!!!

I dont need any money from private persons but i wanted an engaged user base. In the past 3 years of my working time on picochess i wasnt really successful to create a substantial user base.
Over that time i tried to ask for voices, good ideas, ruud to change his rev2 (i dont have a rev2 -> not that important for me, y know?), dgt for help to solve (user) problems....,...., developers to help me ...but im not responsible for esp the last never happened.

My version P exists cause i was in the middle of this development when something happened in my life to open up my eyes and let me come to this decision.
Its now more or less ready , but i as said above dont want to give out this and (maybe further versions) for nothing in return. I dont want to blame someone but please try to understand my situation.
Think of them as my private copy and private ideas for what *i* want to have when *i* use picochess. This part happened to seldom in the past ---- mainly i was just implementing what someone - not really me - prob. wanted.
Often had to guess ;-)

I will now use picochess as an user or develop my own version of it ....but my last version is 0.9N.
This version is not bug free - but it works very well...much better as i started at v0.30 ....Its now time for someone else to take over. Please do.


Jürgen

[highw...@web.de]

Hi Jürgen,

I clearly understand your rational and realy appreciate your work, effort and Passion!

I love picochess and will wait what's going on.

Tanks

Volker

[Uwe Badermann]

Hello Juergen,

I thought a long time about to reply to this "SOS"-message or not.

But since I have (as I guess) personally the same experience than you have, I dare to do so.

I fully understand that doing community work (work on a honorary post - don't know the best word in EN for it), is an

unmeasurable hard work for both: physisy and psyche.

Physically it requires a lot of engery (love?!) to push the project forward and i.e. relatives or even family usually do not have any clue to 

judge it as "hobby", "ididocy" or "addiction". 

Psychologically you sooner or later come to the conclusion that you are "the only one doing anything"

and all the others are just cheapkaters.

Just to make it black and white.

Well, we are somehow. But we also don't be!

I do not have experience in software developement on this virtual collaboration platforms like github etc.

But I know from my professional life, that it is very often very difficult to engage people in your doing, because

you (as being in-in-in-depth in it) expect to have more work to get companions level or /up-to-date 

than just doing it (much quicker) on your own.

My recommendation:

1st "Sabbatical"

Take some weeks of even month of.  Even if it's hard to keep the fingers away from the code - I understand this a 100%

But the community will not only stand it, but also understand it. 100% I'm sure.

2nd "Come together"

If it is somehow possible to arrange: Make an event with the other developers and the PicoChess lovers.

Self-catering party.

Face to face.

Somewhere at summer time, a BBQ place, smalltalk...

To see the lucky people is very different from receiving a "big thank you" etc.!

3rd "Le tete c'est nous"

You are head of the team - if you accept/like it or not. 

You are!

Delegate tasks.

Ask the community to take over some tasks. I'm sure, everybody can do at least anything - even if it's just a small bit.

This might change your "job" from a programmer to a manager.

But in fact: The Picochess project has risen that big, that it almost requires such a transformation.

As a result, developement might be slower, but for Picochess - as a virtual organism - it will be best!

And I'm fully convinced, people will accept!

Just my 2cents

Cheers

Uwe

[michaelb...@gmail.com]

newbie to this world - just curious as what are the changes in versions p and q ? I have a dgt-pi machine... thx in advance for your reply.

[Miguelon]

Hello Juergen, You are 100% right, working for FREE is not fun but I think it will be hard to make some money with Picochess the way things are. Recently I paid like 3 euros  to download the latest version but I couldn't do anything with the download because Im not a computer expert. It wasn't your fault because you clearly stated that in your site - I just didn't read it.

Now from the POINT OF VIEW of a REGULAR user (no computer expert): The problems I see with Picochess are many:  It is not simple to use, the menus could have been done MUCH better (the EXTRA queen method helps a bit), people have different hardwares (DGTpi has the advantage that it has a standard hardware so It will be easier to work for the DGTpi), etc. The main advantage that I see in PICOCHESS is that the SSD card can be changed very easily so you can have different versions of Picochess/DGTpi. Play chess version: Engines separated by elo ( 1 below 1600, 1 below 1800,  2 below 2000, and shredder), press one button and you are in books, press another one to switch sides, press another one to pick another move, etc etc. Study chess version: only 2 engines max (do I need more?)  and now all buttons are  programed to make it easier to analyze on the spot, show best moves, evaluations, guess the next best move, the way it is  now you have to click and click and click. Again Im talking from the point of view of a consumer NOT a computer expert.

Just brainstorming

Mike

[Jürgen Précour]

Hi,

as i said v0.9N is the last public available version from ME for now.

P&Q are my versions and they have alot stuff done (i dont want to name them all, mainly small stuff - but it fixes some problems older versions had) ... to get it, y need to be an "plan" user and for NOW y need to know abit more of linux as with <=0.9N versions.

I wrote a howto ...what commands y need to type - but its not like "auto-installed"...therefore my text ;-)

Despite this these versions deal with multi clocks , like a 3000 plus webserver or what im often using a DGTPI & 3000 at same time. But im a power user, ha.

But its fully okay to use the N version until Jeff or someone else is releasing a new public version.

Yes, Mike...i dont get alot money...thats not my goal(!), just to get people addicted to picochess as i am.

Your proposals are like <v0.60 versions - so before DGT asked me to change the menu system. There wish brings alot more button clicks to reach yr goal, but its big plus is that y dont need to learn a special button press for a special action as we had before 0.60

Both ways have their plus & minus,...The new dev (group) gonna change it maybe.

Jürgen

[Michael Lang]

Hi Jürgen,

where can I download v0.9N - is it still available on your site (I cannot find it)?

Regards, Michael

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[Jürgen Précour]

Hi Michael,

go to https://picochess.com/picochess-images/ download the newest image (E for non-pi; L for pi)

and/or:

update yr picochess with activate the update flag and working iNet (same procedure as before).

There is NO image for 09N (y just need to burn to yr sd card)...You need to update your old picochess.

Jürgen

[miclang]

Thanks, Jürgen!

Regards, Michael

-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------

Von: Jürgen Précour <in...@keyman-versicherung.info>

Datum: 09.06.18 10:54 (GMT+01:00)

An: PicoChess <pico...@googlegroups.com>

Betreff: Re: Is Picochess going to get commercial?

[Michael Byrne]

Jürgen,

Pico newbie here  - it’s hard to appreciate if I should join the “plan” without specifically knowing exactly what was fixed.  I’m on v09N thanks to help from Al.  It seems to work fine , I have made some tweaks that suit me - no auto flag , all moves  spoken in all Fischer type time control games regardless of of how much time left, etc. 

Thanks,

Michael 

Sent from my iPhone

[Jürgen Précour]

Hi Michael,

welcome to picochess!

Yes, i saw yr tweaks :-)

But the reason to turn voice off is simply that a voice can take >1sec to speak out...so, in fischer 1/1 y stll get a problem.

But y free to change the code.

Saying this, the code CANT be changed by you from >0.9p onwards! And i changed lots of code in the 3m i took to come from N to P.

I dont want to list that all, cause im too lazy :-) no, i just didnt record it so in detail as i did in past cause this P versions is mainly for ME.

I fully understand if y need more info before y join a club....But im not doing this for money, and i dont want to spend alot of time to persuade people -

The problems i fixed are small - so if you dont need more clocks - you can stay with 0.9N this is really fine (program).

If y happy with picochess, im too.

Jürgen

[Michael Byrne]

Hi Jürgen,

1/1 is way too fast for me 😊.      Very happy with picochess -  Many thanks to Al for showing me the way on the ins and outs of picochess. I did notice a nice improvement in responsiveness ,boot up time and piece recognition after upgrading to the 3B+ card.  Highly recommended for $35.  I have some coding  experience from my work on McBrain  so may do more tweaking, we shall see.  Anyway , it’s a thrill having McBrain and other engines on picochess.

Best regards,

Michael 

Sent from my iPhone

[Jürgen Precour]

Hi,

Ok, here is a *limited* list what i did.

Its far from complete(!!!) and only in "short notation"..But its the best i can get with limited time effort.

And i fixed LOTS of problems with display like:

- the message stays on display instead returning to time running display

- the message is too short displayed

- the message order is wrong (on some clocks)

incl. a BIG bug with "beeps full on", and y have an analysis modeS running.

The goal of 09P was not "fix bugs" :-) it was to make each clock (could be the webserver/dgt3000/XL/PI/Rev2) behave independant of eachother.

Before if y click on one button of a clock the other clocks are also updated. Thats now only done on this special clock allowing (for example) to enter a menu and still have the game info (hint move for example) available.

Many other examples can be thinked of.

===========LIST OF CHANGES START===========
        update engines

        bugfix on hint move on castle
        Menu refactor Update Menu / Logfile out of system menu

        Bugfix setpieces at newgame
        Speaker names in capital
        fix #266 "Speech output calls checkmate twice"

        bugfix leaving update menu
        remove remote mode

        bugfix beeps (esp on analysis modes beeps like hell)
        new beep level "error" can be turned on/off on its own
        display LAN moves on clock

        "noscore" in capital too
        better handling of eBoard errors

        bugfix "update picochess" not always find the newest version

        various voice improvements and "update" texts
        "eMail_log" text improvements

        new RaspPi3+ files

        let picochess also run on windows

        test for iNet in update menu
        test for ini file problems (dont crush anymore)
        new parameter "network wait"

        zurichess using the same level order as the other engines

        on rotated boards set the origin to prevent problems with middle button

        prevent problems with missing engines.ini file

        bugfix on exit "update menu" (time)

        display "takeback" only on non-menu clocks
        on shutdown/reboot dont display eBoard-errors

        exchange some XL chars

        better combined ponder display

        update several engines
===========LIST OF CHANGES END===========

Jürgen

[Al]

Thanks Jürgen

Al.