Piccolo Logo

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Stephen Chin

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Jun 22, 2008, 8:48:19 AM6/22/08
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I probably should have spent my time coding, but I had a rare streak of artistic inspiration, and spent the night working on a logo design instead.

Here is the end result:


It is heavily filtered, but the picture in the background is a real professional-grade, handcrafted Piccolo (a Yamaha YPC-82 to be precise).  I am also picky about transparency and resolution, so I made sure that the image shows up well on different types of backgrounds, and have the data to generate much larger versions images as well.  The subtext is also easy to change if someone has a better idea.

Let me know what you think...

Cheers,
--Steve

Ben Bederson

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Jun 24, 2008, 6:16:17 AM6/24/08
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Hi Steve, you know, I was just thinking that it was time for a logo - so *thanks* for pushing this forward!  Over the years, I have found that I am definitely *not* an artist - which is why I never create a piccolo logo, but I am good at identifying usability issues and people's response to design - and thus have a few comments on the draft below:

  • I like the font and text rendering - but I'd suggest making the "2" read also to make "2D" stand out.
  • I think getting the tag line just right is important too, and I've iterated on that quite a lot over the user.  I'm not too fond of "semantic zooming" as it doesn't mean anything to people that haven't dug into ZUIs.  And not everyone uses piccolo for zooming.  So I'd go back to what I've been calling it: "Structured 2D Graphics Framework" which is pretty descriptive to programmers.
  • The actual piccolo is pretty, but to be honest, it is very difficult to see behind the text - and when small (as I first saw it on my phone), I couldn't tell what it was at all - even after I read your message. 
One possibility is to move the flute out from under the text.  Or, I wonder if it isn't better to show a little scenegraph as being more descriptive.  The thing about logos is that they have to be immediately visually apparent when very small.  And the should be printable, and visible in just a few colors.  Thus, images of actual things are almost never used in logos.  Thus, I think we should go with either a hand-drawn abstracted simple picccolo (which is probably impossible), or perhaps go for a scenegraph or other iconic representation...

Sorry to be a bit harsh.  I am thrilled you are working on this, but I think it is crucial to get the logo just right...

  - Ben
--
Ben Bederson
Technology Director
International Children's Digital Library
+1 (301) 867-3838
www.cs.umd.edu/~bederson
bede...@childrenslibrary.org

Please support the ICDL with a donation by clicking on "Make a Donation" at www.childrenslibrary.org. Every bit of help is greatly appreciated.
Piccolo-merged.png

Stephen Chin

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Jun 24, 2008, 6:31:23 AM6/24/08
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Ben,

Thanks for the feedback. It looked a lot better at 5AM in the morning
than it did after I was coherent and bounced it off some friends. ;-)

All of your suggestions are very good. I'll give it another pass
tomorrow or the following night.

Cheers,
--Steve

Ben Bederson wrote:
> Hi Steve, you know, I was just thinking that it was time for a logo -
> so *thanks* for pushing this forward! Over the years, I have found
> that I am definitely *not* an artist - which is why I never create a
> piccolo logo, but I am good at identifying usability issues and
> people's response to design - and thus have a few comments on the
> draft below:
>

> * I like the font and text rendering - but I'd suggest making the


> "2" read also to make "2D" stand out.

> * I think getting the tag line just right is important too, and


> I've iterated on that quite a lot over the user. I'm not too
> fond of "semantic zooming" as it doesn't mean anything to people
> that haven't dug into ZUIs. And not everyone uses piccolo for
> zooming. So I'd go back to what I've been calling it:
> "Structured 2D Graphics Framework" which is pretty descriptive
> to programmers.

> * The actual piccolo is pretty, but to be honest, it is very


> difficult to see behind the text - and when small (as I first
> saw it on my phone), I couldn't tell what it was at all - even
> after I read your message.
>
> One possibility is to move the flute out from under the text. Or, I
> wonder if it isn't better to show a little scenegraph as being more
> descriptive. The thing about logos is that they have to be
> immediately visually apparent when very small. And the should be
> printable, and visible in just a few colors. Thus, images of actual
> things are almost never used in logos. Thus, I think we should go
> with either a hand-drawn abstracted simple picccolo (which is probably
> impossible), or perhaps go for a scenegraph or other iconic
> representation...
>
> Sorry to be a bit harsh. I am thrilled you are working on this, but I
> think it is crucial to get the logo just right...
>
> - Ben
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Stephen Chin <s...@browsecode.org
> <mailto:s...@browsecode.org>> wrote:
>
> I probably should have spent my time coding, but I had a rare
> streak of artistic inspiration, and spent the night working on a
> logo design instead.
>
> Here is the end result:
>
>

> It is heavily filtered, but the picture in the background is a
> real professional-grade, handcrafted Piccolo (a Yamaha YPC-82 to
> be precise). I am also picky about transparency and resolution,
> so I made sure that the image shows up well on different types of
> backgrounds, and have the data to generate much larger versions
> images as well. The subtext is also easy to change if someone has
> a better idea.
>
> Let me know what you think...
>
> Cheers,
> --Steve
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ben Bederson
> Technology Director
> International Children's Digital Library
> +1 (301) 867-3838

> www.cs.umd.edu/~bederson <http://www.cs.umd.edu/%7Ebederson>
> bede...@childrenslibrary.org <mailto:bede...@childrenslibrary.org>


>
> Please support the ICDL with a donation by clicking on "Make a
> Donation" at www.childrenslibrary.org

> <http://www.childrenslibrary.org>. Every bit of help is greatly
> appreciated.
> >

Willis Morse

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Jun 24, 2008, 9:23:18 AM6/24/08
to piccol...@googlegroups.com
Don't forget to make it look good in grayscale first, then colorize
it afterwards. Human eyes pick up on value contrast first, then color
color contrast.

Plus, it needs to print well in B&W.

- Will

Allain Lalonde

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Jun 24, 2008, 9:46:57 AM6/24/08
to piccol...@googlegroups.com
I still can't see it

2008/6/24 Ben Bederson <bede...@gmail.com>:

Stephen Chin

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Jun 25, 2008, 6:30:08 AM6/25/08
to piccol...@googlegroups.com
I reworked the logo based on everyone's suggestions.  The text is simpler with a basic drop shadow to make the 2D word stand out.  I also replaced the Piccolo image with a scene graph depiction which can also double as an icon.  (What does a scene graph look like anyway?)

Here is version 2:
Piccolo Logo v2

I also reworked a tiny version of this just to see what it would look like.  Rather than just shrinking the image, this is completely re-rendered to keep sharp edges and fine detail.
Piccolo v2 small

Tell me what you all think.


Cheers,
--Steve

Ben Bederson wrote:
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
Piccolo 2D Developers: http://groups.google.com/group/piccolo2d-dev?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---


Allain Lalonde

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Jun 25, 2008, 8:31:00 AM6/25/08
to piccol...@googlegroups.com
Much better. Logo's nice too, but you're right... what does a scene graph look like?  That logo's pretty close.

Even incorporating a magnifying element with some rotation would do it.  Like spinning and enlarging the red rectangle.

Good work.

2008/6/25 Stephen Chin <s...@browsecode.org>:
Much b

Willis Morse

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Jun 25, 2008, 9:50:59 AM6/25/08
to piccol...@googlegroups.com
Yes, much better.

I think we should decide whether the project's name is "Piccolo 2D" or "Piccolo2D" 

To be really picky, even if the name is "Piccolo 2D" with a space, I think there's a little too much white space between "Piccolo" and "2D". I see what you're doing, matching the width of the title to the blurb, and that's good. You could push Piccolo and 2D together a little and reduce the horizontal size of the blurb to match. 

- Will


On Jun 25, 2008, at 8:31 AM, Allain Lalonde wrote:

Much better. Logo's nice too, but you're right... what does a scene graph look like?  That logo's pretty close.

Even incorporating a magnifying element with some rotation would do it.  Like spinning and enlarging the red rectangle.

Good work.

2008/6/25 Stephen Chin <s...@browsecode.org>:
I reworked the logo based on everyone's suggestions.  The text is simpler with a basic drop shadow to make the 2D word stand out.  I also replaced the Piccolo image with a scene graph depiction which can also double as an icon.  (What does a scene graph look like anyway?)

Here is version 2:
<Piccolo-v2-merged.gif>


I also reworked a tiny version of this just to see what it would look like.  Rather than just shrinking the image, this is completely re-rendered to keep sharp edges and fine detail.
<Piccolo-v2-small-merged.gif>


Tell me what you all think.

Cheers,
--Steve


Ben Bederson wrote:
Hi Steve, you know, I was just thinking that it was time for a logo - so *thanks* for pushing this forward!  Over the years, I have found that I am definitely *not* an artist - which is why I never create a piccolo logo, but I am good at identifying usability issues and people's response to design - and thus have a few comments on the draft below:

  • I like the font and text rendering - but I'd suggest making the "2" read also to make "2D" stand out.
  • I think getting the tag line just right is important too, and I've iterated on that quite a lot over the user.  I'm not too fond of "semantic zooming" as it doesn't mean anything to people that haven't dug into ZUIs.  And not everyone uses piccolo for zooming.  So I'd go back to what I've been calling it: "Structured 2D Graphics Framework" which is pretty descriptive to programmers.
  • The actual piccolo is pretty, but to be honest, it is very difficult to see behind the text - and when small (as I first saw it on my phone), I couldn't tell what it was at all - even after I read your message. 
One possibility is to move the flute out from under the text.  Or, I wonder if it isn't better to show a little scenegraph as being more descriptive.  The thing about logos is that they have to be immediately visually apparent when very small.  And the should be printable, and visible in just a few colors.  Thus, images of actual things are almost never used in logos.  Thus, I think we should go with either a hand-drawn abstracted simple picccolo (which is probably impossible), or perhaps go for a scenegraph or other iconic representation...

Sorry to be a bit harsh.  I am thrilled you are working on this, but I think it is crucial to get the logo just right...

  - Ben


On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Stephen Chin <s...@browsecode.org> wrote:
I probably should have spent my time coding, but I had a rare streak of artistic inspiration, and spent the night working on a logo design instead.

Here is the end result:
<mime-attachment.png>


It is heavily filtered, but the picture in the background is a real professional-grade, handcrafted Piccolo (a Yamaha YPC-82 to be precise).  I am also picky about transparency and resolution, so I made sure that the image shows up well on different types of backgrounds, and have the data to generate much larger versions images as well.  The subtext is also easy to change if someone has a better idea.

Let me know what you think...

Cheers,
--Steve




--
Ben Bederson
Technology Director
International Children's Digital Library
+1 (301) 867-3838
www.cs.umd.edu/~bederson
bede...@childrenslibrary.org

Please support the ICDL with a donation by clicking on "Make a Donation" at www.childrenslibrary.org. Every bit of help is greatly appreciated.


Much b




M

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Jun 25, 2008, 12:00:13 PM6/25/08
to piccol...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Stephen Chin schrieb:


| I reworked the logo based on everyone's suggestions. The text is
simpler with a
| basic drop shadow to make the 2D word stand out. I also replaced the
Piccolo
| image with a scene graph depiction which can also double as an icon.
(What does
| a scene graph look like anyway?)
|
| Here is version 2:

| Piccolo Logo v2
|
| I also reworked a tiny version of this just to see what it would look
like.
| Rather than just shrinking the image, this is completely re-rendered
to keep
| sharp edges and fine detail.

| Piccolo v2 small
|
| Tell me what you all think.

I'm very pleased with the new version. I didn't really like the previous
one but had no contribution, so I shut up rather than just bitching.

Can you provide the image as svg - that's the image format naturally
related to 2d scenegraphs, isn't it?

I also dislike gif for traditional reasons - let's use png for cgi
bitmaps, ok?

M

- --
M. Rohrmoser
adresse: http://geo.mro.name
fon: +49 89 954 58 628
jabber: mrohr...@jabber.org
http://www.mro.name
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Stephen Chin

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Jun 26, 2008, 6:18:13 AM6/26/08
to piccol...@googlegroups.com
Willis Morse wrote:
> Yes, much better.
>
> I think we should decide whether the project's name is "Piccolo 2D" or
> "Piccolo2D"
>
> To be really picky, even if the name is "Piccolo 2D" with a space, I
> think there's a little too much white space between "Piccolo" and
> "2D". I see what you're doing, matching the width of the title to the
> blurb, and that's good. You could push Piccolo and 2D together a
> little and reduce the horizontal size of the blurb to match.
>
> - Will
I agree that we need to be consistent on the name of the project. I
have been writing the project name as "Piccolo 2D", but wherever spaces
are not allowed (such as code or mail aliases) consolidated it to piccolo2d.

I noticed while working on documentation that it is sometimes difficult
to tell that the combined term Piccolo 2D refers to the project
depending upon the surrounding words. It is also more difficult to do
batch search/replaces on the project name, which I think will be
important to ensure we do not have a lot of references to "Piccolo" by
itself.

I could go either way, but we need to finalize this ASAP, because the
longer we take to decide, the more documents and artifacts need to be
updated.

Cheers,
--Steve

Willis Morse

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Jun 26, 2008, 11:33:36 AM6/26/08
to piccol...@googlegroups.com
Personally, I vote for "Piccolo2D" with no space. It has more of a
product-y feel to it, and, as Steve points out, will be MUCH easier
to search on.


BTW- It's kind of late to bring this up, I suppose, but technically
Piccolo is what's often informally referred to as a "2.5D" system.
It's got z in the sense of layering and ordering, but it's obviously
not a full blown 3D system.

"Piccolo2.5D" doesn't ring as a product name, though. And it looks
like a version number.

- Will

M

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Jun 27, 2008, 8:09:44 AM6/27/08
to piccol...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Willis Morse schrieb:


| Personally, I vote for "Piccolo2D" with no space.

So do I.

| MUCH easier to search on.

Yes!!

| BTW- It's kind of late to bring this up, I suppose, but technically
| Piccolo is what's often informally referred to as a "2.5D" system.
| It's got z in the sense of layering and ordering, but it's obviously
| not a full blown 3D system.

Not to forget about time (animations). So it's really kind of 3D :-)

M


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Stephen Chin

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Jun 28, 2008, 1:57:54 AM6/28/08
to piccol...@googlegroups.com
I'm invoking the 48 hour rule, and considering this as consensus.

"Piccolo2D" it is... I'll update the website/groups/docs/logo/etc.

Cheers,
--Steve

Stephen Chin

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Jun 28, 2008, 6:29:45 AM6/28/08
to piccol...@googlegroups.com
I've updated all the usages of "Piccolo 2D" to "Piccolo2D" I could find.  Please tell me if I missed any...

Also, version 3 of the logo is ready with updates based on feedback recieved over the past couple days.  The major changes are:
  • Removed space between Piccolo and 2D
  • Made the red rectangle a "colorizing" lens (everything outside it is now gray-scale so it has more impact)
  • Generated transparent PNGs as the recommended web version for the large, small, and iconified versions
I've uploaded the PNGs and source Photoshop files under svn/wiki/images, which makes it easy to serve the files for inclusion in our website and wiki.  I also added the logo to our homepage and at the bottom of the wiki pages as a link.  Since these are all links to svn, any future updates to the logo will automatically percolate.

Oh, and here are the new graphics:
Piccolo2D Small Image
Piccolo2D Large Logo

Cheers,
--Steve

P.S.:  Since this is a Photoshop job, SVG output is not going to be possible...  sorry!

Ben Bederson

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Jun 29, 2008, 6:34:08 AM6/29/08
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You guys are awesome (meaning I agree with your decisions :).  I like the new logo, and agree with removing the space before 2D.  Thanks.

  - Ben

M. Rohrmoser

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Mar 20, 2015, 7:36:15 PM3/20/15
to piccol...@googlegroups.com
Am Samstag, 28. Juni 2008 12:29:45 UTC+2 schrieb Stephen Chin:

P.S.:  Since this is a Photoshop job, SVG output is not going to be possible...  sorry!
  
In case you guys wonder where the logo at https://github.com/piccolo2d comes from - it's from a pure SVG version of the well-known logos. It's not strictly 1:1 but IMO good enough. What do you think?
Piccolo2D-Logo-dev.svg
Piccolo2D-Logo.sh
Piccolo2D-Logo.svg
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