I don't understand

[starman79]

I don't understand why the pictures http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39967083 and this http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39967014 were not select to GE.

What I did wrong? They are panoramic views of Rio and taken from the highest place, offering a new point of viewpoint

Thanks!

[Draken]

Quote starman79:

I don't understand why the pictures http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39967083 and this http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39967014 were not select to GE.

What I did wrong? They are panoramic views of Rio and taken from the highest place, offering a new point of viewpoint

Thanks!

The only possible explanation is the reviewer may have thought the photos were taken from a plane, which is not allowed in fact.

Please send an e-mail to review[at]panoramio.com and ask for a new review.

Please let us know when you get an answer.

[starman79]

Quote Draken:

The only possible explanation is the reviewer may have thought the photos were taken from a plane, which is not allowed in fact.

Please send an e-mail to review[at]panoramio.com and ask for a new review.

Please let us know when you get an answer.

Hi Draken, thanks for your support. I sent the e-mail and will post the answer here.

Why airplane pictures were not acceptable?

[mikstan43]

I think that the first photo you indicate is possibly rejected because of the people sitting on the rocks to the left of the scene.
There has been much discussion about people in photographs - perhaps Draken can give you a link to that thread ( Sorry Draken - I do not know how to put in that type of link myself)

The other does look like an aircraft photo but you and I both have other aircraft photos which have been accepted . No logical explanation of this !!

Mike S

[Draken]

I wish I could find the thread more easily myself!! Anyway, please read the Help File, specially the regulations and policies chapter. The Photo Acceptance Policy is there.

[mikstan43]

Starman and Draken,
The thread I am thinking of is dated 10th September 2010 and is titled -
"Picture selected for GE deselected now"

MikeS

[Draken]

Great Mike!!

Here it is: http://www.panoramio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29787

[papkassen]

I have seen, like yors, taken in Norway, on the edge of a moutain side, width people standing or sitting like on yours, some of also posing, but accepted, and I have seen more than one pic taken from a plane, and accepted

[Draken]

Quote papkassen:

I have seen, like yors, taken in Norway, on the edge of a moutain side, width people standing or sitting like on yours, some of also posing, but accepted, and I have seen more than one pic taken from a plane, and accepted

It only proves reviewers are human beings who made mistakes (wrongly accepted and wrongly rejected photos) even though they have to apply the same criteria.

[papkassen]

Quote Draken:

Quote papkassen:

I have seen, like yors, taken in Norway, on the edge of a moutain side, width people standing or sitting like on yours, some of also posing, but accepted, and I have seen more than one pic taken from a plane, and accepted

It only proves reviewers are human beings who made mistakes (wrongly accepted and wrongly rejected photos) even though they have to apply the same criteria.

You are right, but all the rules are not

[Draken]

Mmmm, the same rules since you joined Panoramio.

[papkassen]

Quote Draken:

Mmmm, the same rules since you joined Panoramio.

still rigth, and no complaints, I am not paying, only a user

and dont take a look in this album http://picasaweb.google.dk/papkassen42

it would only bore you to dead

[Draken]

Even if we had to pay for the use/service provided by Panoramio we still would have to abide by the rules. We are not forced to join and participate.

I will follow your advice and I won't look at your Picasa album.

[Daan Prinsloo]

Draken, I give you the diplomat award of the month for your patience!

[Draken]

Thank you Daan. It is the second time you congratulate me. I would be a good Public Relations Manager, wouldn't I?

[AustinMN]

Quote Daan Prinsloo:

Draken, I give you the diplomat award of the month for your patience!

I have to agree. If I were a moderator, I would soon be kicked off altogether for my lack of patience and lack of diplomacy. But Draken does it very well.

Austin

[PhotoBombOahu]

Congrats Draken.

After my last review, I think there should be a 'Not selected, WTF?' sticky

[Draken]

Quote PhotoBombOahu:

Congrats Draken.

After my last review, I think there should be a 'Not selected, WTF?' sticky

You are welcome (I am not a reviewer, though).

[d_shorb]

Forgive the newbie question.ops:

Photos of people can't go on GE?

[Draken]

Quote d_shorb:

Forgive the newbie question.ops:

Photos of people can't go on GE?

No, they can't.

Please read the Photo Acceptance Policy.

[starman79]

Quote:

The only possible explanation is the reviewer may have thought the photos were taken from a plane, which is not allowed in fact.

Please send an e-mail to review[at]panoramio.com and ask for a new review.

Please let us know when you get an answer.

Hi Draken, I sent two e-mails as you suggested me and no answers since then. Do you have another idea?

Someone said that a couple of guys in the left side could be the reason for the deselected, but it was the only way to people see that was not an airplane picture.

Thank you, again!

Warm greetings from Rio. MAN

[papkassen]

It is not always understandable, here some exaples, and there are more in thie area, look self, if interestet

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/992150

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/1522241

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/570266

and if they are not posing, I don't know what posing is

regards gordon

[Draken]

Hi starman79

Unfortunately I don't have any other suggestion. The regular procedure is to send the e-mail as a last resource (third review, in fact).

[papkassen]

and as next, if it still dos'nt work, I will bring you examles of photos taken from a plan, there are plenty

regards gordon

[Draken]

Gordon

We can all find wrongly rejected and wrongly accepted photos. Thanks

[starman79]

Quote Draken:

Hi starman79

Unfortunately I don't have any other suggestion. The regular procedure is to send the e-mail as a last resource (third review, in fact).

Draken, thank you for support. That picture was the awesome I ever shot, and unfortunately the one not selected.

Have a nice day.

[papkassen]

Quote Draken:

Gordon

We can all find wrongly rejected and wrongly accepted photos. Thanks

i never said they were wrong, i like them

[Draken]

Quote papkassen:

Me neither. I said "wrongly rejected" and "wrongly accepted". The wrongness is in the acceptation or the rejection, not in the photos per se.

[Gerard Sanz]

Let me clarify this situation as it is very recurrent.

First of all I will +1 the Draken-Patience award

So regarding revision:

There are 2 kind of photos: Bulletproof photos and not Bulletproof photos.

Bulletproof photos are clear accepts or clear rejects:

i.e.:
Clear Accept:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/13167078
Clear Reject:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/36691646

Those images should not be mistaken ever by our reviewers. If they are mistaken, it is a problem (I apologize in advance if that happens) but that can happen due to human nature of the process.

If that happens you should ask for a second review and in that case the revision should accept the photo. If that still happens then it can be for 2 reasons: The photo is not a bulletproof photo or the reviewer made a bad judgement

1. Non bulletproof photos:
i.e. http://www.panoramio.com/photo/36691684
Animals are not accepted unless they show they are in context and show the background. The question always is how big should be the background? How small or big can a frame be? Etc.
That is unfortunately something that depends on perception and we all have different opinions. For this reason, I have no option but to trust the judgement of the reviewer. Meaning... bulletproof photos should not have variation and non-bulletproof photos can either be accepted or rejected.

2. Reviewer had a bad judgement:
In that case as Draken pointed out you can send an email to rev...@panoramio.com I have to say that we do not commit in any fast answer on this email address as our priorities regarding emails to you are for those problems like accounts, passwords and so on where you do really need our direct help. Review is only when all the rest of the job is done (difficult thing).

Some other current status regarding this:

You may have seen that lately our revision system has been running a bit slower. I would like to apologize for that and ask for your patience as one of our reviewers is on holidays. We are putting on place a technical solution for this in our revision tools that will allow faster revisions from January on.

Another concern from many members of the community is that revision is not consistent. I will rewrite the help content in the next months so bulletproof cases are clear with examples and I will also explain the non-bulletproof cases there.

Thanks and sorry for the inconveniences and the long script

[Draken]

Thank you Gerard for the long and clear explanation.

[leolund]

Thank you Gerard for trying to clear this up but I guess Draken and others will still have to answer the same question in the future and we will have to read them again if not, in some way, we can make all newbies read it but since we seem to have the most patient mods in cyberspace I guess they will manage.

I am curious though, how many are the poor guys that have to review the wast amount of pics being posted :

regards

leo

BTW- i like the pic of the poor tired monkey.

[Gerard Sanz]

Hi leo, the insights of photo review are confidential and I can not tell you ;) But they are very happy and have fun by reviewing your pictures!

[AustinMN]

Quote Gerard Sanz:

But they are very happy and have fun by reviewing your pictures!

Plus, they get to live in Switzerland!

Austin

[mikstan43]

And have Swiss bank accounts !!

[Alan Fogelquist]

Quote Draken:

Thank you Gerard for the long and clear explanation.

The reasons for approval or rejection of some photos with incidental humans in them or incidental vehicles may be related to cultural geography and anthropology. It could also be related to the experience or inexperience of the reviewers and how literally they take the instructions to Panoramio users. It could also be related to the weight given to various criteria. When in doubt over a photo, reviewers with some cultural and personality traits could chose to automatically reject anything that is not 100 percent certain, while others decide to approve everything in sight and yet others to flip a coin to decide. There also may be differences in the level of zealotry and vigilance of individual reviewers. Having lived under a couple of dictatorships, I can understand the vigilance factor. To be safe reject everything and report any suspects to the authorities.

This is all speculation based partly on observed differences in photo approval. I find that photos of people at traditional festive occasions tend to get approved more than those of someone standing prominently in front of a monument. Finally there is the eyesight factor which may account for ability or inability to make fine distinctions. As for my own eyesight, I have already tried to proof read this post several times and each time I have found new mistakes to correct. I have sympathy for those photo reviewers with vision problems.

In one recent inspection of an approved photo in a diligent attempt to locate possibly illegal human subjects I discovered an unidentified person scateboarding down Arizona Ave. in the middle of heavy traffic, an event not atypical in Santa Monica cultural geography.

[Vartan Narinian]

People come to Panoramio for different reasons. I, like you, Alan,
am here to get my photos into Google Earth.

Draken and other moderators will bleat on about how reviewers
are human beings and sometimes make mistakes. He will also say to
you that the rules have not changed recently and certainly don't
change often.

Believe who you will. My theory is that in the beginning when
Panoramio needed lots of your photos to get the site off the ground,
reviewers would pretty much approve anything. As the number of
photos increased, they got more picky.

There are numerous photos from inside stadia, photos of machinery,
flowers etc. that are approved for GE that cannot be random errors.
They are systematic errors.

Panoramio needs to build up its customer focus. If people are complaining
about inconsistency in the selection process, maybe they should listen
to the users and acknowledge the problem and try to address it rather
than pretend there is no problem or try to get the moderators to
convince people of the same.

[leolund]

Quote Vartan Narinian:

I don't understand, if you think that what the mods and others have got to say on this topic, that has been open over and over again, is not the truth, why do you post your concerns here? no one here can do anything about it. Why not write to the people that maybe can do anything? :

[Matthew Walters]

I think Gerard's answer earlier in the thread is the one to be given the most credence. He is the official Panoramio representative, and is or main point of contact as the Community Manager. In his reply he acknowledges that sometimes - this being human nature - mistakes may be made, and there are means to ask for second (and third) reviews if you feel particularly hard done by.

Reviewers are looking at 10's of thousands of thumbnail sized images per day and they make subjective decisions based on the guidelines they have been given. I moderate another photo web site and occasionally click reject (or accept) by accident, and that is looking at maybe 16 images at a time.

Panoramio didn't need a Google Earth acceptance policy when it first started - it wasn't directly linked and the only way you could see images in GE was by using the KML file. When Google incorporated Panoramio as a standard layer, an acceptance policy was put in place - this has been refined but doesn't regularly change. Images previously accepted are not automatically rejected and are not re-reviewed based on new criteria. There simply isn't the capacity to do this, particularly when you look back at the rate of growth.

As (forum) moderators we report images and galleries that we feel are not relevant for Panoramio and GE; these may get de-selected or maybe removed. You may find that incorrectly accepted images are rejected once the 'mine wasn't accepted but his was' discussion starts.


Matthew

[Draken]

Matthew

The chronological/historical facts on Panoramio are the real facts, aren't they? We have been here long enough as to know the history of Panoramio, the whys and wherefores of the Photo Acceptance Policies and the changes and how the website has developed throughout all these years. No theories, speculations or conspiracies. Only facts.

[Alan Fogelquist]

Quote Draken:

Matthew

The chronological/historical facts on Panoramio are the real facts, aren't they? We have been here long enough as to know the history of Panoramio, the whys and wherefores of the Photo Acceptance Policies and the changes and how the website has developed throughout all these years. No theories, speculations or conspiracies. Only facts.

This is an interesting thread for clarifying some of the guidelines and various interpretations of them. I don't see a title for this thread and have to get to it by going to a closed thread that I started a couple of days ago.

How do you find this thread in the help forum?

[mikstan43]

How about rembering the name of it !

"I don't understand"

MikeS

[Draken]

As moderators we have to read as many threads as we can to give our disinterested support and guidance to users.

The search function in the forum is far from being good...(my understatement of the day), so good memory plays a key role.

[Panamon-Creel]

Quote Vartan Narinian:

Panoramio needs to build up its customer focus. If people are complaining
about inconsistency in the selection process, maybe they should listen
to the users and acknowledge the problem and try to address it rather
than pretend there is no problem or try to get the moderators to
convince people of the same.

Absolutely, Panoramio should hire tons more reviewers so each one can take their sweet time to every photo in detail as well as multiple times by different reviewers to minimize mistakes. In order to cover the added overhead they should apply a charge back to the user for each submitted photo. That should solve the problem, right?
Maybe you are willing to pay for such perfection, I'm not willing to do that and have come to the realization that the review process, even with it's imperfections, is a service and not an enemy to us users that attempts to control the uncontrollable (aka us users).
Could the review process and accuracy thereof be better, absolutely but to be honest the root cause of the problem is not the review process itself but the need of a review process due to lack of user self control to begin with.
Many folks scream murder, conspiracy and whatever else if their "masterpiece" didn't get accepted and complain about someone elses similar photo being accepted. However most of the time you can hear a pin drop if one of their pics got mistakenly accepted and they know it. I know of only a few that actually asked to get a mistakenly accepted pics of theirs deselected. Those are the ones that see the bigger picture and a review process wouldn't be needed if all would be like that but that ain't gonna happen in this world full of self centrics

[Alan Fogelquist]

Quote mikstan1943:

How about rembering the name of it !

"I don't understand"

MikeS

But what is the name of it? I don't see it at the top of the post list.

[Draken]

Thank you Panamon-Creel... I had forgotten this thread: http://www.panoramio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12551

[Panamon-Creel]

Quote Alan Fogelquist:

This is an interesting thread for clarifying some of the guidelines and various interpretations of them. I don't see a title for this thread and have to get to it by going to a closed thread that I started a couple of days ago.

How do you find this thread in the help forum?

Well I recommend that you spend some time and go backwards through pages of topics in this Q&A forum and read some of them.

[Panamon-Creel]

Quote Draken:

Thank you Panamon-Creel... I had forgotten this thread: http://www.panoramio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12551

Should check how many of those had been deselected

[mikstan43]

Quote Alan Fogelquist:

But what is the name of it? I don't see it at the top of the post list.

I don't understand

[Matthew Winn]

Quote Alan Fogelquist:

Quote mikstan1943:

How about rembering the name of it !
"I don't understand"

But what is the name of it? I don't see it at the top of the post list.

The name of the thread appears in the title of the page, not in the body. Any half-way decent browser should display the title somewhere; usually it's at the top of the frame of the window. (In some, such as Google's Chrome, you have to hover over a tab to see the title as a tooltip, which is poor user interface design.)

Quote mikstan1943:

Quote Alan Fogelquist:

But what is the name of it? I don't see it at the top of the post list.

I don't understand

There's a comedy routine here somewhere.

[mikstan43]

Matthew,

I thought I had actually fallen for it and was awaiting the punch line.!!

MikeS

[papkassen]

Quote mikstan1943:

Matthew,

I thought I had actually fallen for it and was awaiting the punch line.!!

MikeS

Hello mikstan1943, where is your picture ???

My father once told me, never trust a man if you can,t see his eyes, now I can't see yours

Gordon

"Have a nice day"

[Draken]

Quote starman79:

I don't understand why the pictures http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39967083 and this http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39967014 were not select to GE.

What I did wrong? They are panoramic views of Rio and taken from the highest place, offering a new point of viewpoint

Thanks!

Both photos have been accepted after a second review or, eventually, an e-mail sent (you see, it was worth trying it).

All's Well that Ends Well.

"Have a nice day".

[mikstan43]

Quote papkassen:

My father once told me, never trust a man if you can,t see his eyes, now I can't see yours

Gordon

"Have a nice day"

But you know what my eyes look like because you have seen them before.

MikeS

"Have a nice day"

[papkassen]

Yes mikstan1943 I remember your eyes, trustworthy are they.

I see that you slowly dissapear.

But before you are totally gone, I could need your help.

As an englishman you can this language better than I can, and now where we both are "hanging" around together in a gallery with two more suspect person, you might help me with that, what:

I don't understand

This pictures 44001778, 43751221, 43058169, are that was is called "screen captures", and therefore against the Panoramio rules ?

Acceptance policy for Panoramio photos as written here

The following table summarizes the acceptance policy. All types of photos that appear in the table are unacceptable for Panoramio, as you see here, found on the help page.

Unacceptable types of photos:

Logos, mini-images, images that are not real photos, scanned documents, text documents, screen captures, collages and copyrighted images that are not yours

Comment:

These cannot be accepted in Panoramio for legal reasons.

Or are they pictures taken from somone elses and therefore against this rule ?


Unacceptable types of photos:

Photos that someone else took, even if you credit the original photographer

Comment:

Unless you have explicit permission from the photographer, you cannot upload the photo to Panoramio. If you upload someone else's photo, your account can be deleted without notice.


Or is it none of that ?? hope you can answer me before you quite dissapear.

As you see, my english is not the best, and sometimes I have to say:

I don't understand

So if you could paint it out for me, may be I could understand

Greetings Gordon

"have a nice day"

[mikstan43]

Gordon,

I regret I am unable to comment on your queries regarding screen shots being allowed on this site, basically because I do not have sufficient knowledge about producing a screen shot let alone getting one on to this website.

I think you should redirect your question to a moderator who I am sure will be able to explain this apparent breach of the regulations and arrange for the immediate cancellation of his account.


Sorry !! and Good Luck.

[papkassen]

Thank you mikstan1943

Then I hope a moderator can open my eyes

"have a nice day"

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

Hello Gordon, let me give you my opinion about this.

Your English is good. Your interpretation of Panoramio rules too. So: Screen captures are not allowed. Publishing photos taken by someone else is not allowed - all for copyright (and other) reasons.

But anyway, photos and "photos" should be evaluated within its context of use in gallery and "egoless". (I know, you are personally involved in the indicated case).

Examples:
- Gallery with only photos from shopping mall "My electronics TM" is wrong, but gallery with one shot of this mall and other photos from different locations is OK.
- Gallery contianing only screenshots or paintings and graphics is wrong, but gallery with some (low count) of paintings made by author. or couple of screenshot documenting problem on Panoramio etc. is tolerable.

Draken is the moderator. He made these screenshots to document and made a proof (comments can be deleted later) of unfriendly behaviour of some Panoramio users. I don't think it was really needed and I think it was not good idea indeed! (sorry to say that, Draken!)

But remember: Draken is very helpfull member of community (although you might not like his straightforward, direct and goal oriented style, different from my chit-chat style). Moderators work is often dull and routine volunteer job, without financial reward - only reward is some respect of other community members. BTW: Do you know how many times moderators answer the same questions about contest or visibility of photos in GE?

Therefore it also belongs to general netiquette that moderators are "tabu" - they should not be attacked by other community members and their advices and opinions should be taken seriously. Only in the case of really serious problems with some site moderator you should contact the site admins with formal complain. But it is really not good manner to attack moderator (or any other member) indirectly, as you did.

I am almost sure - direct request to remove these screenshots addressed to Draken with words of settlement and peace (without irony!) would help better.

P.S. I'd like to keep Panoramio pleasant place for all civilized ladies and gentelman, where they can enjoy lot of fun and friendship!

P.P.S. To err is human, to forgive divine.

P.P.P.S. MikeS, I hope you removed only your avatar from Pano, but you are not leaving!

[JBTHEMILKER]

**Tomas**, Thank you for the well written response.

[papkassen]

Thank you Tomas K☼h☼ut

I like your replies, not onlu this, you are not hammering people on their scull, with a short address to a rule. You often are trying to explain, something around the rules, because if people have read them, and did not understand, maybe it helps to draw it for them.

And as a dane, I am used to say when I feel something is wrong, not that I always are right.

So then many happy greetings from Denmark.

Gordon

[Draken]

Even though there are no words of settlement and peace I have removed the screenshots as a good will gesture. I expect there won't be any other irony, "have a nice day" ironies, shows of disrespect and/or unfriendly and indirect attacks anywhere on this website.

[mikstan43]

Tomas,

I have removed my avatar,personal details and am slowly working through the deletion of all my photographs.

Shortly thereafter I will make one final comment and then request deletion of my account.

The last two years have been fun but for me , Enough - I nearly put that in bold capitals but no longer wish to incur the wrath of the/a mod.

MikeS

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

MikeS, I am personally not pleased to hear it - I think some temporary issues are not worth of it! But it's your decision...

[mikstan43]

Tomas,

I appreciate your comments.

However I was only ever spoken or written to in the tone of the post I think you are referring to on one occasion in 40 years of business, and when that person's father found out what had been said it was formally retracted.Having said that ,I do not expect such a situation here.

I am too long in the tooth (Back to the gift horse thread again ) to really worry about it but I can dislpay my discontent in the way I am doing.

Down to the last few hundred photos which is taking much too long because of all the "Djangos"!!

Regards

MikeS

[Gerard Sanz]

Quote mikeS:

Hi MikeS,

Despite it is always a pity to loose a user. If you are not happy with Panoramio you can write an email to del...@panoramio.com and I will delete your account and all your photos with a single click saving you tones of time.

On the other hand if you wish to stay with us and build a constructive and nice community were we all can have a nice time, please stay and enjoy. I just think it is a pity that you waste your time, and get crampy on the process as we are here to enjoy.

I understand that not everything is perfect (it never is anywhere) but we do our best to have you all happy in every single aspect in Panoramio. Far before in this thread I explained you all the revision process and despite some insist in conspiracy theories, we are a small and happy team that works hard everyday with the help of our beloved moderators and users. Coming to the office and hearing positive feedback empowers us to do great, and work harder.

So let's just enjoy here, as I do not have time to loose in angryness and I think most will agree with me on this one.

Cheers,
Gerard

[mikstan43]

Gerard

Thank you for your interest.

All but one of my photos have now been manually deleted. If I now send that email to "delete" are all my photos removed from the Panoramio servers completely or do they remain hidden away somewhere and will continue to be used.This is really for interest only and does not cause me concern one way or the other.

Let me assure you that I am full of praise for the work that you, your team and the majority of moderators have done and continue to do in Panoramio.Well done and continued success to you all.

And to User - Pierre Dablon for his Excel magicry that is PSP - Thank you so much .

To every Panoramian who has looked at and/or commented on any of my photos - My thanks to you and continue to enjoy this site.

Always :
Be polite in your posts to any of the forums .
Be aware that the language you use is not always the natural language of the person who is responding to you - they may be able to write,read and speak that language but do not necessarily understand it - for example it has been construed that "Please" means "I order you" !!

Never try to have an indvidual discussion with fellow panoramians - some one is likely to intrude with an unwanted comment.

And finally, Gerard , I am not leaving angrily -I just have no more photos to upload and map - which was more than half of the fun!!!

If you wish to respond to me by email rather than through the forum I am sure you will have my e-address.

Goodbye Panoramians everywhere in the world.

MikeS

[Gerard Sanz]

A pity you leave us, but again we respect your decision. If I delete your account you will still see Google Earth bubbles until we refresh the layer in Google Earth. After the layer gets refreshed, the bubbles will disappear.

[Vartan Narinian]

Quote Panamon-Creel:

Absolutely, Panoramio should hire tons more reviewers so each one can take their sweet time to every photo in detail as well as multiple times by different reviewers to minimize mistakes. In order to cover the added overhead they should apply a charge back to the user for each submitted photo. That should solve the problem, right?
Maybe you are willing to pay for such perfection, I'm not willing to do that and have come to the realization that the review process, even with it's imperfections, is a service and not an enemy to us users that attempts to control the uncontrollable (aka us users).

Spare us the irony and the sensationalism please, leave that to journalists.
You might be happy about the level of consistency in the review process,
but as you can see often in the forums, users want more.

If you're going to ignore users' requests on the basis of cost, why not go a
step further and not have any forums or help either? After all, they cost
money, right?

[Vartan Narinian]

Quote Matthew Walters:

Panoramio didn't need a Google Earth acceptance policy when it first started - it wasn't directly linked and the only way you could see images in GE was by using the KML file. When Google incorporated Panoramio as a standard layer, an acceptance policy was put in place - this has been refined but doesn't regularly change.

Very interesting. Does this mean that ALL images that were in Panoramio
at the time Google incorporated it were added to the GE layer without
review? This would explain the inconsistencies with older photos.

[Gerard Sanz]

Quote Vartan Narinian:

There were no reviewers. It was Jose, Eduardo and Joaquin manually selecting them from their home in Spain

[Gerard Sanz]

Quote Vartan Narinian:

Quote Matthew Walters:

Panoramio didn't need a Google Earth acceptance policy when it first started - it wasn't directly linked and the only way you could see images in GE was by using the KML file. When Google incorporated Panoramio as a standard layer, an acceptance policy was put in place - this has been refined but doesn't regularly change.

Very interesting. Does this mean that ALL images that were in Panoramio
at the time Google incorporated it were added to the GE layer without
review? This would explain the inconsistencies with older photos.

The point is taken and we accept the criticism. Just move on and invest your energies in other more interesting topics so we will be able to invest ours in improving the process.

Thanks!

[Gerard Sanz]

Quote Gerard Sanz:

Plus I do not see a single mistake in your 2 pages account. Conclusion: What is your point? I am happy to help and invest 100% of my energies in solving any problem, but I am not happy with discussing just because.

[Draken]

I thought Mr. Vartan Narinian has learnt nobody was interested in discussing for discussing's sake in this previous thread: http://www.panoramio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31210

As nobody paid attention to him in that thread he moved on to this one.

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

Quote Vartan Narinian:

Vartan. I will not use sarcasm and ask you to do the same and not use position of troublemaker in advance! OK?

I am pretty sure, you understand that review process (by its nature) will never be 100% error free. Always you will be able to find some wrongly rejected or accpeted photos. Accuracy of process depends on investments made on process (time spent with each photo review, number of reviewers, re-review of older photos, double, triple checkikng, discussion about borderline photos...). Panoramio team is responsible of finding optimal costs and accuracy balance. It's Panoramio's team job, responsibility and their decision, not yours. Team is aware of errors in review process and provides some feedback to correct them (did you read Gerard Sanz's post in forum about review status?)

For me, level of accuracy of review process is currently fine. I have one (perhaps) wrongly rejected photo and about 5 wrongly accepted in my 2000 photos portfolio. That's very good result! And as experienced user I know the Team is permanently and sucessfully working on raising the review accuracy level.

About costs savings: forum is for free. This is self service forum. Moderators are volunteers and they are not paid. Although there are more then 5.000.000 of users including you, you've got personal response to your (a bit obvious question) and support from community manager Gerard Sanz. Again for free.

So what are you asking for??

[Frank Noordenbos]

Yesterday I asked by email for a final review of one off my pictures.

It's a picture that shows a Spoonbill in its natural habitat.
This animal is very characteristic for the wendland area where it broods and where I took the picture.

Now I'm wondering; how long does such a review takes?

I ask it because I asked by email (a long time ago) for a review of one of my other pictures. I never got an answer.

[skida]

Frank: A close up of a bird that does not show the landscape contravenes the acceptance policy for Google Earth and I fully expect your photo of the spoonbill to be rejected again.

It is a good photo and may be representative of the area, but it is not a landscape photo and that is what the Panoramio layer on Google Earth is intended to show.

[Tomas K☼h☼ut]

Quote Frank Noordenbos:

Frank, my personal experience:

Very likely you will not get any answer.
Admins only silently re-review photo and eventually change its status (from rejected to accepted), but it can take long time (Third review is very low priority task). If they write individual explanations, it would take even longer.
I know, long wait time combined with no feedback is unpleasant for you and very likely will result in your doubts if any action was taken.

Sometimes it is more effective to reupload the photo (what is more important for you - to keep photo history and comments or to have photo accepted?).

P.S.
I am talking generally. I did not check your photo, so I cannot tell you if you have any chance.

[Galatas ©]

To the best of my knowledge e-mail requests for a third review are never acknowledged. Either the photo gets accepted or it doesn't , there is no explanation given. I can only imagine the number of such reviews that are requested. It's probably so many that replying to each one is out of the question due to time restraints. If the status under the photo doesn't change in a couple of weeks it's a safe bet it has not been accepted.

[Frank Noordenbos]

Thank you for your response skida, Thomas and Galatas.

To be quite honest, I am very pessimistic about the chance to get a positive decision.
I know a lot of people who have the same experience as I have. The email procedure leads to nothing. You don't even get an answer!
So I think the whole email procedure is a sham.

Skida, I don't agree with you. The acceptance policy doesn't say anything about landscapes.
The acceptance policy says: "Animals in their natural environment showing the background".
Regarding my picture I think the background of the picture represents the natural habitat on an excellent way. So I would say, either accept my picture or change the acceptance policy.

[Galatas ©]

Quote Frank Noordenbos:

So I think the whole email procedure is a sham.

Whenever someone is unhappy at not having their photo accepted they always claim it's a sham.
What possible reason could Panoramio have for it ? There is no advantage to them whatsoever in setting up such a sham as you call it. They could just as easily say two reviews and that's it. There's no conspiracy against Frank Noordenbos or any other individual.

[Draken]

In the last 15 days I asked for a third review through the normal e-mail procedure for two photos. In both cases the photos were accepted without re-uploading. The procedure is not a sham. The fact I am a moderator is unrelated.

The only proviso I took was to write in the e-mail subject "It is a street sculpture" just in case they were confusing them with real people.

[Frank Noordenbos]

Quote Draken:

The procedure is not a sham. The fact I am a moderator is unrelated.

I believe you Draken.
So, there is still some hope.

[Matthew Walters]

Quote:

Regarding my picture I think the background of the picture represents the natural habitat on an excellent way. So I would say, either accept my picture or change the acceptance policy.

If you been able to get lower down and take a broader view of the background, I'd agree about the habitat. As it is, the image shows a small amount of water and parts of a tree, which may have been taken anywhere - as it stands, I agree with Skida that you have not included enough background. That said, you may be lucky and the image may pass at third review stage, but I wouldn't expect that to set a precedent.

Matthew

[Frank Noordenbos]

More background wouldn't give more information about the habitat Matthew.

The picture tells all you have to know. There is shallow water, there are trees in the water and there is driftwood.
More background does not add anything.

[AustinMN]

Quote Frank Noordenbos:

More background wouldn't give more information about the habitat Matthew.

The picture tells all you have to know. There is shallow water, there are trees in the water and there is driftwood.
More background does not add anything.

The background adds what GE requires..."Animals in their natural environment showing the background"

Austin

[Galatas ©]

Quote Frank Noordenbos:

More background wouldn't give more information about the habitat Matthew.

The picture tells all you have to know. There is shallow water, there are trees in the water and there is driftwood.
More background does not add anything.

Except prove it wasn't taken in a zoo.

[Matthew Walters]

More background adds context.

At the moment the picture doesn't show whether this was taken in the natural habitat or a zoo.

I have some pictures from Slimbride with a similar background and these too were rejected. I also have a seal taken in Kaikura, With a slightly wider background but the background is blurred and this is also rejected.

Google Earth selectors prefer wide open spaces that show an area, if wildlife is part of a photo of the area (but not vice-versa) the photo is accepted. If GE introduces a flora/fauna layer being fed by Panoramio then perhaps they will start to accept more close-up photos of nature.

Matthew

(I need to learn to type faster. Faster than Galatas, anyway)

[Frank Noordenbos]

I don't think the attitude of selectors has to be that the mistrust people Galatas and Matthew.

Look where I placed the picture on the map. It's not a Zoo!
In fact there is a Zoo some couple of miles from there.
The funny thing is, the Zoo doesn't have an Eurasian Spoonbill in its collection.

I think the basic attitude of selectors shoot bee that the trust members.
If the want prove from me, I'm able to provide that proof.

By the way, I've seen a lot of Zoo-pictures that are aproved for GE.
This one for example: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/56822544

And now I've other things to do.

[Galatas ©]

It's very naive of you to think that anyone can be trusted on the internet. But this isn't about trust , it's about policy. Google Earth policy states only photos of animals if they show the background.
In the opinion of the reviewers , and so far everyone who has joined this topic , your photo does not show sufficient background.
I wondered how long it would be before you said "this got accepted why not mine ?" Two wrongs don't make a right. Lots of people speed in their cars , some get caught , some don't. That doesn't mean speeding is ok.

[Frank Noordenbos]

Is that so Galatas?
In that case everyone in this forum (except Austin) is wrong.
The photo does meet the acceptance policy as it is given known to the menbers for 100%

End of discussion.

[leolund]

Frank, I wonder how many times your problem has turned up in the forum, I am amazed over peoples politeness that makes them even read these complaints, me I stopped long ago this is just an exception. I also wonder why getting it on GE is so important to you? You got it on Panoramio and on Google maps and you got more than 400 pics on GE, what is the big deal : :

[Galatas ©]

Quote Frank Noordenbos:

Austin wasn't agreeing with you , as I'm sure he will confirm
That leaves you on your own with the rest of the world wrong.

[AustinMN]

Quote Frank Noordenbos:

In that case everyone in this forum (except Austin) is wrong.

You must have misunderstood my reply. Read what I quoted and what I said.

The photo does not meet GE criteria, in my opinion.

So I guess everyone is wrong except you.

Austin

[AustinMN]

Quote Galatas:

Quote Frank Noordenbos:

Is that so Galatas?

In that case everyone in this forum (except Austin) is wrong.

The photo does meet the acceptance policy as it is given known to the menbers for 100%

End of discussion.

Austin wasn't agreeing with you , as I'm sure he will confirm
That leaves you on your own with the rest of the world wrong.

Dang...this was on the next page so I didn't see it when I posted. Still true!

Austin

[skida]

Quote Frank Noordenbos:

In that case everyone in this forum (except Austin) is wrong.
The photo does meet the acceptance policy as it is given known to the menbers for 100%

End of discussion.

I gave you my opinion as to the chances of your photo of a spoonbill getting accepted into Google Earth. If I am wrong, the photo will be accepted.

The acceptance rules were written in English by someone whose first language isn't English. Those who have participated in this forum for a long time have come to understand that fauna is acceptable as part of a landscape, but not acceptable as a main subject. Sometimes they get accepted at the first review stage by mistake, but my experience is that a rightly rejected photo of a bird will not be accepted at a second or third review.

The concept of Panoramio is to show places. What you need is a site called "Faunaramio".

[Frank Noordenbos]

I apologize to Austin. I did misunderstand you indeed . English is not my native language you know.

Furthermore I want to say the following to all of you.
I'm not in this forum to have endless discussions.
I wanted to know two things:
1) how long does such a review takes?
2) Is there a third review anyway?

Both questions are answered. No need for me to have a discussion furthermore.

Given your replies I have to say the following.

I persist in my opinion that my picture meet the acceptance policy as it is given known to the menbers for 100%
Most of you say (in an implicit way) : "The policy as it is given known to the menbers is not implemented".
I'm not a fool. I know.
Therefore I wrote above "So I would say, either accept my picture or change the acceptance policy".

Finally, your question leolund: "I also wonder why getting it on GE is so important to you?".
That question is out of the order.

Cheers, Frank

[Craig Hutton]

i have submited two images that have been rejected and cant understand why could you please explain as no people are in it except for shadows in one


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/62001366

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/62001322

Thanks

[Galatas ©]

None of us here are reviewers so we can only express an opinion rather than give definitive reasons.
Personally I am as surprised as you that the first was rejected , but I suppose the reviewer classed it as close up detail.
The vignetting in the second shot is rather like a frame. Frames are often the reason for rejection.
See the post about frames by Tomas in this thread http://www.panoramio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38560

[hvbemmel]

I think that the rules will be implemented stronger as there are more photos uploaded. I´ve seen many framed photos rejected lately where the same frames were accepted before. I think the same happens with details. (all my personal opinion, no inside info!)

[Craig Hutton]

Quote Galatas ©:

Thanks for your advice man ive cropped the fisheye images to remove what they consider framing and its been accepted still waiting for the other ive removed what i consider as somebody elses photo which is an image of the ship the anchor is from so wait and see but thanks again

[Googoolar]

Under carefully controlled conditions reviews will do as the jolly well please!