Simon the Skeleton

[Peter Lister]

Simon the skeleton has lived at Science Oxford for a bit. He's joints need minor repair and he needs his skull re-attaching.

Once he's feeling better, he can then be donated to a school. I offered to help with this, which is why there's a skeleton model in the new space.

Would anyone like to help? Anatomical knowledge of e.g. the correct position of a skull would be useful.

We can have a go on Thursday.

All the best,
Peter

[Jake Adams]

My brother ( a doctor ) is coming down for a few days at the end of the month, if I can drag him along I'm sure he would love to help with re assembly.
Jake

[Jake Adams]

Although, I'm sure you can figure it out with a bit of googling, and get it done faster.
Jake

[yargh...@gmail.com]

I can contribute a few anatomical ideas.

 

 

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[Adam Hocking]

I'm particularly familiar with skeletal anatomy as a Radiographer. I can't do Thursday this week though, will it be around on Monday?

[Paul Murcutt]

Peter, how long do we have access to Simon? I ask because I'd like to have a crack at actuating his jaw, ideally to make it sound sensitive (e.g. you talk, Simon's jaw moves) using an Arduino & a servo, but honestly it'll take me at least a month to do all that in my spare time (servo stuff is new to me, I'm pretty confident it'll work but it'll take me a bit).

It seems like the basic remedial work done on Thurs has patched/fixed most of the issues with the joints, but his Head still needs re-attaching & his jaw is a little loose. It looks like you could get away with using some air drying putty (Sugru?) to properly fix his jaw (remove the white tac & replace with putty, form a little ridge to stop it constantly popping out). Putty might also be a quick answer to re-fixing the head (put a blob in the right place in the skull & shove the pin at the top of the spine into it). I wish I'd taken pictures on thurs but there you go.

I'm happy to have a go with some putty week after next (I'm fully booked next week!)

On 17 September 2015 at 16:22, Adam Hocking <adamh...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm particularly familiar with skeletal anatomy as a Radiographer.  I can't do Thursday this week though, will it be around on Monday?

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[Jake Adams]

If you were wondering about actuating his jaw, I saw someone who set that up with a puppet : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoHnQplTMlA (episode 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeCQA9zGOwA (episode 2). He also controlled it with his voice, so this may be worth taking from if you're interested.
Jake

[Jared Reabow]

lol i knew that Ben heck would be brought up

On Tuesday, 15 September 2015 17:54:09 UTC+1, Peter Lister wrote:

[Phil Barber]

The other person to talk to would be Matt Westcott (I think it was) who built Manuel the Talking Moose https://torchbox.com/blog/adios-manuel/

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[Peter Lister]

On 19/09/15 11:34, Paul Murcutt wrote:
> Peter, how long do we have access to Simon?

Well, I offered that we'd "fix" him so that SO could offer him to a
school - presumably as a normal plastic skeleton for a biology lab...
but come to think of it, there's no reason why he can't be educational
as a robotics project, is there?

No particular timescale was discussed.

> I ask because I'd like to have a crack at actuating his jaw, ideally
> to make it sound sensitive (e.g. you talk, Simon's jaw moves) using an
> Arduino & a servo, but honestly it'll take me at least a month to do
> all that in my spare time (servo stuff is new to me, I'm pretty
> confident it'll work but it'll take me a bit).

If we have to make a new mounting for his skull, it would be shame not
to make that servo controllable so that he can turn his head when he's
talking to you.

I notice that SO are having a "Spooky Science" Halloween workshop on 24
October.

Enquiries are being made. :-)

All the best,
Peter

[Matt Westcott]

I only did the speech synthesis and Twitter bits for Manuel, so I can't really advise on the hardware beyond what's in that blog post. (It sounds like the AutoTalk board http://www.bpesolutions.com/productimages/animatronics/autotalk.html might well be the way to go, though...)

Cheers,
- Matt

[Peter Lister]

On 19/09/15 11:34, Paul Murcutt wrote:

> Peter, how long do we have access to Simon? I ask because I'd like to
> have a crack at actuating his jaw, ideally to make it sound sensitive
> (e.g. you talk, Simon's jaw moves) using an Arduino & a servo, but
> honestly it'll take me at least a month to do all that in my spare
> time (servo stuff is new to me, I'm pretty confident it'll work but
> it'll take me a bit).

Earlier today I spoke to Cathy Sturrock, Science Oxford's Education
Programme Manager.

Executive summary: yes we can animate Simon's jaw and skull. I also like
the idea of LEDs (blue?) in his eye sockets.

If we can do some of this by the time of SO's Halloween themed workshops
next month, so much the better.

I said we'd leave Simon so that the servos etc can be removed, but if SO
like the result, then they might buy servos / Arduino from us and use
him for this kind of workshop or for as a robotics demo.

> It seems like the basic remedial work done on Thurs has patched/fixed
> most of the issues with the joints, but his Head still needs
> re-attaching & his jaw is a little loose. It looks like you could get
> away with using some air drying putty (Sugru?) to properly fix his jaw
> (remove the white tac & replace with putty, form a little ridge to
> stop it constantly popping out). Putty might also be a quick answer to
> re-fixing the head (put a blob in the right place in the skull & shove
> the pin at the top of the spine into it). I wish I'd taken pictures on
> thurs but there you go.

Sugru seems OK for his jaw.

I'm told that Simon was returned to SO with the skull support missing,
so no chance of the missing bit being found.

If we have to make a part for the skull, let's try to leave enough space
for a small breadboard and an Arduino Nano inside and make a swivel than
can be servo operated, so he can turn to glare at terrified children.
:-) [ Cue evil laughter ]

But I think just animating his jaw with a servo and controlling from a
servo tester will be fine for next month. We might have to rethink the
design in the longer term.

I don't suppose anyone can equip him with a hooded cloak and maybe a
scythe or hourglass?

> I'm happy to have a go with some putty week after next (I'm fully
> booked next week!)

Sounds good. I'll try to get his skull mounted in roughly the right place.

All the best,
Peter

[Phil Barber]

If you're doing LED eyes there can be no other colour than blue. http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Death

And it MUST TALK LIKE THIS.

Phil

[Paul Murcutt]

Cool to know I can get a decent crack at it! LEDs certainly sound do-able & I should be able to sync them up with the jaw motion.

I'll get some white/grey putty ordered tonight. I'm happy to leave it at the space if someone with a better grasp of anatomy wants to fit the skull (any volunteers?). Otherwise, some pictures of recommended fixing position would be nice.

I'll post my current ideas for arduino libs & circuits for comment tonight.

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[Peter Lister]

Cool to know I can get a decent crack at it! LEDs certainly sound do-able & I should be able to sync them up with the jaw motion.

I'll get some white/grey putty ordered tonight. I'm happy to leave it at the space if someone with a better grasp of anatomy wants to fit the skull (any volunteers?). Otherwise, some pictures of recommended fixing position would be nice.

I'll post my current ideas for arduino libs & circuits for comment tonight.

As it happens, I have a Nano and a small breadboard wired for up for a couple of servos (and a couple of the hackspace's hobby servos) as a Code Club demo.
LEDs are easy; I can lend this lot to the project for the next month, as the kids are on Scratch until at least half-term.

If you're doing LED eyes there can be no other colour than blue. http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Death

So - have we got any blue LEDs kicking around? I have only red and green.

All the best,
Peter

[Paul Murcutt]

Are you planning on popping in one day next week Peter? It would be cool to get an into to the hardware off you. I'll order some LEDs at some point, red & green will do for functional testing =)

Paul

[Nick Kolpin]

For testing there are some microcontrollers, breadboard, LEDs, resistors etc. in the microcontroller night box that you can use.

[Tek Murphy]

Give Simon away?

I was hoping we could make him into a Cyborg or an AI or something. You never know we might get donated a frozen brain or something to go in his skull. You know... a cryonic time traveller.

Think big....

Regards

Tim

[Paul Murcutt]

Nick, any chance there's a op amp or a microphone in there?

[Nick Kolpin]

There's a chance because there is a "starter kit" set in there and I forget what was included.

[Paul Murcutt]

Fair enough, I'll have a rummage next week!

[Lauren Hutchinson]

I think I probably have blue amongst my LEDs, remind me on Thurs and I'll check.  I definitely have purple and other less common ones.

[Adrian Godwin]

Got some ws2811  / neopixels ? Any colour you like and hardly any wiring

[Paul Murcutt]

Ooooh, sounds good! Are you willing to lend 2 of them to the project? At least until the end of Oct?

Actually sat down last night to look at the code and have thrown together a combination of the arduino's native servo lib and one of the fft libs out there to create version 0.1 (still needs a little work to bridge the gap). Github link soon...

I'll be in on Thurs this week so are those contributing hardware able to make it in/drop of their bits before then?

Thanks for the support.

Paul

[Peter Lister]

I'll be in tonight, but not Thursday.

Peter

[Adrian Godwin]

Yes, I've got some spares and some of the older 'blipleds' (different connections, similar effect). There are plenty of libraries around for arduino or whatever your preference is - they're definitely worth experimenting with if you haven't come across them already.

Does the hackspace have a postal address ? I'd like another trip over there but can't do it at the moment.

If you want more power, the multicolour led spotlights are interesting. 3-10W of RGB and a crude controller with an IR remote. You can only use preselected colours or
fades, but it wouldn't be hard to generate the IR signal from something programmable.

[Paul Murcutt]

Adrian,

If it's going to be an effrort, I'd note that there's no rush. I'd like to get my hands on the hardware but frankly the Servo/Microphone stuff is my 1st priority.

Peter,

No worries, is your Arduino around in the space? I've still got stuff to do in Simon's skull, but getting my hands on the hardware by/during next week would be good. Is there a day you'll be in next week where you can show me the ropes?

Thanks all,

Paul

[Peter Lister]

Hello Paul,

> No worries, is your Arduino around in the space? I've still got stuff
> to do in Simon's skull, but getting my hands on the hardware by/during
> next week would be good. Is there a day you'll be in next week where
> you can show me the ropes?

There's a plastic bag in the "Microcontroller night" box labelled "Simon
the Skeleton". It contains an Arduino Nano (mine) a mini breadboard
(which belongs to Botley School, but the kids won't be using it until at
least half-term) and a couple of servos with horns plus various hook up
wires and a couple of pots as inputs, the latter all being hackspace kit.

That should get you started. :-) Don't trust the wiring on the
breadboard. Probably easiest to get the skull to OVADA somehow - I'll
have to leave that one to you. There are some skull animating videos on
YouTube - they just seem to use a simple link done to a small hook or
hole to operate the jaw. If we can turn his head, as well, that's great.

If you want to try the servos and e.g. jaw linkage without bothering
with an Arduino, there's a servo tester in the space (Jared, can you
confirm? I think it's yours).

The Arduino software is installed on the hackspace PC, and I think the
Mac under Ubuntu, but don't quote me on that. Start with the Arduino
Servo library - try the Knob demo, remembering to check which input the
pot is connected to and which output the servo is connected to, did I
mention not to trust the breadboard wiring? You can drive one small
servo using just USB power on the servo, but don't stress it.

I won't be back in Oxford until Sunday at the earliest, sorry. I'll
definitely be in on Tuesday, as it's my key night.

All the best,
Peter

[Paul Murcutt]

Ta Peter, I'll make a start on Thurs & see how far I get!

All the best,
Peter

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[Peter Lister]

> You can drive one small servo using just USB power on the servo, but
don't stress it.

That didn't make sense. I meant, you can power a small servo from the
Arduino's 5v out when the Arduino is only powered by a USB.

I have a 9v wallwart PSU we can use when he's set up.

All the best,
Peter

[Lauren Hutchinson]

I'll drop the skull into the old space on my way home tonight.  Nobody hurt it though (robotics people aside), SO want it back in one piece for at least one night on October 31st apparently.

All the best,
Peter

[Paul Murcutt]

Thanks Lauren

,
I'll put a post it or something on the skull tonight with words to that effect!

Paul

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[Paul Murcutt]

So last night I got the servo sweep application running (the wiring was fine peter, just had to drive one pf the servos off the default D9 pin).

My next step on the plan is to get a little bread board & mic (there isn't one in the micro-controller box) that I can set up the simple circuits I need.

Simon's head is currently on the shelves, with a little note asking folk not to hack him without checking here... My next plan for the skull is to work on the jaw with the white Sugru I bought (currently in the Simon baggie). However the rest of the mechanical work (making the skull cap fit properly, re-fixing the skull to the spine), I'm more than happy to let anyone willing to take this on, just remember the deadline in the end of Oct.

Regards,

Paul

[Paul Murcutt]

Version 1.0 of the arcuino code is up on GitHub https://github.com/pmurcutt/SimonTheSkeleton

Comments welcome!

[Peter Lister]

On 04/10/15 22:01, Paul Murcutt wrote:
> Version 1.0 of the arcuino code is up on GitHub
> https://github.com/pmurcutt/SimonTheSkeleton
>
> Comments welcome!

Well done!

Have you tried this with the mic & servos? We'll need to sort out the
valid range movement range of the servos when mounted.

Are you proposing a smoother servo action? A simple servo write might be
a bit jerky. I'm working towards a suave, sophisticated skeleton, if
possible.

What parameters need tweaking for different voices? I assume that you
intend it should it work regardless of age / sex etc?

I'll see what I can do on Tuesday with mounting etc. I might play with
your code a bit... :-)

All the best,
Peter

[Paul Murcutt]

Parts are on order so I should put all the H/W together this week, still not done anything to the skull though (the jaw seems to need pushing forward & out to hinge properly...)!

I will be smoothing the output (just a simple forgetting filter should do it), as it stands the output is only driven by volume in the range of human speech, but i've got some better ideas...

Just FYI the current version is basically the most basic I could put together, future improvements include:

Using vowel identification (looks fairly easy) to better drive the jaw

Faster FFT (there are better ways to sample audio on arduino)

Light up eyes, obviously

I'll do a better write up on these bits later, but for now I just want to get everything working in it's most basic form!

All the best,
Peter

[Peter Lister]

On 05/10/15 09:55, Paul Murcutt wrote:

Parts are on order so I should put all the H/W together this week, still not done anything to the skull though (the jaw seems to need pushing forward & out to hinge properly...)!

I will be smoothing the output (just a simple forgetting filter should do it), as it stands the output is only driven by volume in the range of human speech, but i've got some better ideas...

Just FYI the current version is basically the most basic I could put together, future improvements include:

Using vowel identification (looks fairly easy) to better drive the jaw

Faster FFT (there are better ways to sample audio on arduino)

Light up eyes, obviously

I'll do a better write up on these bits later, but for now I just want to get everything working in it's most basic form!

Brilliant stuff, but since I'm Skeleton Monitor, I'd like to remind you that the priority is to get an animated jaw operated via a a servo tester and a complete skeleton whose skull doesn't fall off.

Deadline: Halloween. :-)

Everything else is gravy but let's get one simple added extra working well. One more complex groovy demo would be *really* cool.

Seven bright ideas none of which work may be regarded as the least preferred option.

So I propose that we get the jaw in place and and servo controlled, and the skull mounted, ideally on a swivel and servo-able.

Simple extras:

• Simple LED eyes.
• Servo operated head turning from a knob
  

Complex grooviness:

• Speech (or insane laughter) generation
  
• Basic speech control
• Proximity sensing to trigger insane laughter and control head turn.
• Fun eyes, e.g. colour changing.
  

If we can demo this sort of thing, I reckon Cathy will be happy and we can then work on the fun stuff with SO's blessing.

All the best,
Peter

[Paul Murcutt]

In total agreement with you regarding basics first.

I will repeat again that the software & electronics stuff is up my street, any complex mechanical jiggery pokery would probably best be left to someone else, my plan to fix the skull on is still a big ol' lump o' Sugru.

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[Phil Barber]

I suspect there's a better mechanical solution than that, I'll take a quick gander next time I'm by.

Phil

[Peter Lister]

On 05/10/15 20:35, Paul Murcutt wrote:
>
> In total agreement with you regarding basics first.
>
> I will repeat again that the software & electronics stuff is up my
> street, any complex mechanical jiggery pokery would probably best be
> left to someone else, my plan to fix the skull on is still a big ol'
> lump o' Sugru.
>

I have no better ideas than some Sugru for the jaw, so by all means try
- bear in mind that we can regard this iteration as Simon 1.0 and
upgrade him if needed.

Peter

[Peter Lister]

On 05/10/15 21:05, Phil Barber wrote:
> I suspect there's a better mechanical solution than that, I'll take a
> quick gander next time I'm by.

Your input welcome. :-) For the skull mount on the stand: I'll have a
try tonight and try to prototype something which can rest on a servo

All the best,
Peter

[Peter Lister]

I had a bit of a play tonight: I think I can mount the servos so as to turn his head and animate his jaw using some of my flat PVC conduit. There's just space to mount the breadboard as well.

Simon's skull is now in a brown paper bag along with my experimental bits. Paul, your Sugru is in the fridge, with the other packet.

I need a handful of white cable ties and some wire - ideally 120mm or so of thin piano wire. Anyone got some in a bits box?

The wire should be pretty much invisible inside the jaw and everything should be reversible. There are enough holes in the skull without needing to make any more.

All the best,
Peter

[Phil Barber]

I've a pack of white cable ties, though only short ones, I'll try to put it in my bag for tomorrow.

Phil

[Peter Lister]

Thanks. I have some, but all black.

I'll try to find some wire.

All the best,
Peter

[Paul Murcutt]

So I must confess that I hadn't put too much thought into what I'd do with a neck joint. Anyone got any requests? As it stands, the only sensor will be a single mic inside the skull. If I put some effort in I could possibly get the skull to face whoever is talking (assuming the sound enters the skull from the front...)?

Or is the suggestion that we create a second program to do haloweeny stuff like suddenly spring into head shaking, jaw wagging (scream emitting if we get the bits?) life when a certain sound threshold is crossed?

[Peter Lister]

On 07/10/15 12:40, Paul Murcutt wrote:
> So I must confess that I hadn't put too much thought into what I'd do
> with a neck joint. Anyone got any requests? As it stands, the only
> sensor will be a single mic inside the skull. If I put some effort in
> I could possibly get the skull to face whoever is talking (assuming
> the sound enters the skull from the front...)?

Given that we have to make him a neck joint anyway, let's build a servo
mounted one. I now have an idea of how to do a first pass, so I'll drive
that if you like.

I was initially thinking of a remote control box that allows an operator
to speak into a mic and turn the head via a slider.

> Or is the suggestion that we create a second program to do haloweeny
> stuff like suddenly spring into head shaking, jaw wagging (scream
> emitting if we get the bits?) life when a certain sound threshold is
> crossed?

My suggestion is that we allow for this in future with e.g. a proximity
sensor or even a pair for stereo vision.

I like the idea of some autonomy, with Simon making the odd pithy
comment as he sees fit.

We can have lots of programs - and SO can use him for kids' robotics
sessions. But not for *this* Halloween, eh?

All the best,
Peter

[Paul Murcutt]

So what is the plan for this Halloween? The current plan is just to make the jaw move in time with someone speaking to simon (& making his eyes glow too?), cool as a teaching tool, but not exactly spooky...

Stereo cams are a bit infeasible with just an Arduino but a proxy sensor isn't, however hiding it in the skeleton somewhere might be a bit harder...

All the best,
Peter

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[Paul Murcutt]

So for those interested, the plan as it stands is to basically cause Simon to 'freak out' once every few mins. Once that is implemented we'll add something like a sound threshold/proxy sensor to trigger this behaviour.

I've added the mic I bought to the Simon bag & started to Sugru the jaw divots to stop the jaw from sticking.

[Phil Barber]

I dropped off the white zip ties as discussed, hope they're useful.

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[Peter Lister]

On 09/10/15 08:32, Phil Barber wrote:
> I dropped off the white zip ties as discussed, hope they're useful.

Thanks Phil, but I tried them on Tuesday and they broke as soon as I
tightened them.

So - I now have a packet of new larger white cables ties, which I'll
bring down tonight (late, unfortunately, due to prior engagement) and
I'll try to put everything together and maybe Sugru things in place.

I have now fashioned a bit of plastic for the larger servos, and I
think worked out where it all goes. Mostly.

This puts me a bit behind schedule but I can probably get it done by
tomorrow (Fri) or Sat.

All the best,
Peter

[Phil Barber]

That doesn't really surprise me to be honest!  They were pretty cheapo.

Sorry!

Phil

All the best,
Peter

[Peter Lister]

On 15/10/15 15:57, Phil Barber wrote:
> That doesn't really surprise me to be honest! They were pretty cheapo.
>
> Sorry!
>

No problem! Thanks for donating them.

Shall I bin them? You're welcome to have them back, but I suspect they
no use for anything, least of all tying cables...

Peter

[Peter Lister]

Useful job for tonight before I come down:

Could someone fix blue LEDs in his eye sockets with leads long enough to
reach the breadboard in his cranium?

All the best,
Peter

[Phil Barber]

I have some more at home - leave them there for peoples' use or bin at your discretion!

Phil

Peter

[Paul Murcutt]

Code is written to drive the servos & leds (haven't put it on gitHub yet due to Arduino's annoying folder structure...). I'll be down & giving it a whirl tonight!

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[Paul Murcutt]

Made good progress last night. Arduino servo & led code works, although currently doesn't quite do the sound activated thing yet (I'll pop it on the repo tonight). I added some more Sugru to stop the jaw falling off, that'll need trimming back now that it's dry. The jaw can be actuated by just pulling on the thread that is tied to the screw on the jaw & should be threaded through one of the holes in the base of the cranium.

[Paul Murcutt]

repo updated

[Peter Lister]

Simon lives...

I have finally managed to assemble the bits. The neck and jaw servos both work reasonably well, and the LEDs are now sugrued into his eye sockets.

I discovered that while the jaw now stays on, it doesn't fall open and so the thread didn't work. I have used some wire to make a springy linkage which actively pushes the jaw down. We'll see how long it lasts.

The neck and jaw servos should not use the full range of movement, and I think I'd like slow down the head movements, if possible. The loaded program is unchanged. Can you make him respond to the mic?

Still to do... attach the cranium, which fits really badly. Sugru? For the eyes, I used a packet from the batch marked "seconds" and with a BB date of 2014. It seems to still be workable.

Finally, the plastic tube on the neck servo needs to be fixed to the top of his frame (8mm square). I'm thinking of cable ties and something to pack the tube with.

I'll bring in the power supply on Thursday, so that he's independent of the USB.

All the best,
Peter

[Paul Murcutt]

Popped my reply in the wrong thread! I'll make the last v1.0 code fixes on Thurs. Any idea what percentage/sweep of the range you would like the servos to make?

It's Lookin' good!

--

[Peter Lister]

On 21/10/15 10:29, Paul Murcutt wrote:
>
> Popped my reply in the wrong thread! I'll make the last v1.0 code
> fixes on Thurs. Any idea what percentage/sweep of the range you would
> like the servos to make?
>

I'd say probably half range (25% -75%) for both, but have a try.

Also, I suggest that we don't move the head continually - when
triggered, just slowly move the neck servo to a random position within
the 25%-75% range, then do the eyes/jaw stuff.

All the best,
Peter

[Peter Lister]

I've found an old powered USB hub with a fairly chunky (6V 4A) PSU with
conveniently long leads. I'll try to get a matching female connector at
Maplin for the breadboard so we can connect the 6V straight into the
Arduino Vin.

If we put his cranium back, we'll need to re wire the breadboard to use
the USB for power/programming as the lead currently goes through the
side of his skull.

All the best,
Peter

[Peter Lister]

Simon has now been re-assembled and moved to SO's classroom. Cathy and Izzy from SO seem happy. I have left the USB hub, USB leads and PSU with them for next weekend's Halloween workshops.

Unfortunately, as we didn't get the chance to work on him on the stand, the skull is fitted a bit too high and far back, so his jaw only works when straight relative to the top vertebrae - and his spine is not straight - and so I have disabled the neck servo. My fault - if I'd got him going a week earlier we'd have had time to fix this. However, I doubt the workshop kids are going to mind, and he does look quite good. The basic concept of fixing the skull with cable ties and a self tapping screw seems to work fine.

There's no pressure on anyone to come up with any sort of skeletal fashion - but if anything eventuates cloakwise over the next few days contact Cathy or Izzy for a fitting.

Thanks to Paul and Phil, the Simon v1.0 hackers and everyone else who has had some input. Hopefully we can upgrade him before long.

All the best

[Phil Barber]

Do we have rough measurements for Simon so Jo can work on said cloak?  If not I'll get them tomorrow but it does delay the creation a little.

Phil

[Jo Barber]

I did email Cathy today but not had an answer.  Quite happy to work with 'adult head sized' and 'Phil's height' :-)

Jo

[Peter Lister]

On 23/10/15 19:34, Jo Barber wrote:
> I did email Cathy today but not had an answer. Quite happy to work
> with 'adult head sized' and 'Phil's height' :-)

Yeah, I didn't think of measuring him when I was in this a.m., that
would have been *far* too sensible. And now he's in the classroom which
we can't get at tomorrow.

Sigh. I didn't think this one through...

A bit shorter than me, so he's probably 5' 6" or so. Whatever that is in
the new money.

Skull - small adult? And no hair so fairly small hat size methinks.

All the best,
Peter

[Jo Barber]

If we go big we can always shorten.  

Peter

[Lauren Hutchinson]

There will be a kids' workshop on in the classroom tomorrow morning, so there is indeed every chance measurements can be got tomorrow, discreetly.

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