Correction (Re: You say predatory, and I say deceptive. You say new wave, and I say illegitimate.)
Rick Anderson
Sorry, page 6 is where OMICS is accused of hiding their publishing fees. The language enjoining them to disclose their publishing fees is on page 16, where deceptively hiding such fees is item g) in the list of things they are told to knock off.
Rick
From:
<osi20...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rick Anderson <rick.a...@utah.edu>
Date: Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 2:06 PM
To: Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org>, 'The Open Scholarship Initiative' <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: You say predatory, and I say deceptive. You say new wave, and I say illegitimate.
Glenn, the requirement to disclose APCs is on page 6 under the header “Deceptive Failure to Disclose Publishing Fees.” OMICS stands accused of hiding their fees until after publication, and then “disclosing” their fees by sending invoices (surprise!).
The injunction contains no narrow definition of peer review. It refers to peer review only in broad terms, and at no point enjoins the defendants to provide it (only to refrain from lying about providing it).
---
Rick Anderson
Assoc. Dean for Collections & Scholarly Communication
Marriott Library, University of Utah
Desk: (801) 587-9989
Cell: (801) 721-1687
From:
<osi20...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org>
Date: Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 1:54 PM
To: Rick Anderson <rick.a...@utah.edu>, 'The Open Scholarship Initiative' <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: You say predatory, and I say deceptive. You say new wave, and I say illegitimate.
Thanks Rick,
For the benefit of our listserv members, here are your bullet points regarding what the FTC ruling is taking issue with:
· Falsely claiming to provide rigorous peer review of articles submitted for publication in their journals;
· Claiming as “editors” individuals who never received manuscripts to review or edit, or who never even agreed to be appointed as editors — some of whom say that OMICS ignored or refused their demands that they be removed from journal mastheads;
· Sending solicitations to potential authors on behalf of other academics, without the latter’s permission or knowledge;
· Giving their journals names “nearly identical to other respected journals, which has led to consumers mistakenly submitting articles to Defendants’ journal”;
· Failing to disclose publication fees to authors until after their articles had been submitted and published, then levying those fees on the authors, continuing to demand payment after the authors had requested that their articles be withdrawn;
· Misrepresenting the Impact Factors of their journals;
· Falsely claiming that their journals are included in prestigious professional and academic indexes;
· Organizing putatively academic or professional conferences and seeking to increase attendance by falsely advertising the participation of respected individuals (who have, in some cases, had to resort to legal action in order to get their names removed from the conference advertisements).
What point #8 of our proposed “action list” is getting at are the proposed definitions on which the FTC’s remedies will be based. But you know, rereading the injunction again (http://bit.ly/2AHYA8b) I’m not seeing the language that concerns you, David---narrowly defining peer review, requiring APC disclosure, etc. I also thought this was there on my first read but my eyes must be tired today and I’m not finding anything now. Can you please point out which line(s) you’re referring to? If there’s no there there, we can certainly take out this point.
Thanks,
Glenn
From: osi20...@googlegroups.com [mailto:osi20...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Rick Anderson
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 11:58 AM
To: Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org>; 'The Open Scholarship Initiative' <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: You say predatory, and I say deceptive. You say new wave, and I say illegitimate.
With regard to point #8 below, and strictly for what it’s worth, earlier this week (in the Scholarly Kitchen) I offered some discussion of the preliminary injunction against OMICS et al.:
Please note that I’m not putting this forward as the last word (or anything close to it), but some might find it helpful as a starting point.
---
Rick Anderson
Assoc. Dean for Collections & Scholarly Communication
Marriott Library, University of Utah
Desk: (801) 587-9989
Cell: (801) 721-1687
From:
<osi20...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org>
Date: Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 12:54 PM
To: 'The Open Scholarship Initiative' <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: You say predatory, and I say deceptive. You say new wave, and I say illegitimate.
I’m incorporating David’s points about regulation into this list (or attempting to) and also correcting for the FTC definition question. New items are in red.
1. At present, there are no international standards for journal publishing (there are best practices guidelines, ethics guidelines, internal standards, etc., but no list that says a journal must do x, y and z).
2. If journal standards were to be developed, there shouldn’t be a single standard of excellence. Would minimum standards be okay?
3. These standards should apply to journals, not publishers (to the end products, not the producers)
4. These standards should be voluntary for now---not accreditation standards
5. We (OSI) should create (and promote through the RSComm website) an accepted definition of what constitutes deceptive publishing. Maybe this is followed up with a blacklist, maybe not---but at minimum we agree on the definition.
6. We (OSI) should join NIH in discouraging publishing in journals that are deceptive (as defined by OSI)
7. We (OSI) should begin the process of improving the capacity of journals that aren’t meeting standards, and over time, discourage publishing in these journals if they don’t improve
8. We (OSI) should carefully review the recent FTC ruling against OMICS and provide feedback to the agency on whether the discussion section of this ruling contains language that might lead to unintended consequences for scholarly publishing (such as defining peer review too rigidly). We should also request input on what kinds of new requirements would be created for the industry (like disclosing APCs in all calls for papers). I have to assume that many publishers are on top of this already, though. Is this an area where we can/should all collaborate (providing a sort of broad scholcomm perspective on this---not a lobbying effort but a joint comment?)
From: Glenn Hampson [mailto:gham...@nationalscience.org]
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 9:56 AM
To: 'Lisa Hinchliffe' <lisali...@gmail.com>
Cc: 'Rick Anderson' <rick.a...@utah.edu>; 'David Wojick' <dwo...@craigellachie.us>; 'The Open Scholarship Initiative' <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: You say predatory, and I say deceptive. You say new wave, and I say illegitimate.
We can certainly rephrase this (I didn’t mean to suggest that the FTC definition should be the standard). For instance, we’ve discussed here what kind of practices we might consider deceptive----Rick’s red light yellow light model. And then there’s the Think-Check-Submit model, COPE’s model and others.
As for the publisher/journal distinction, the FTC action targeted publishers whose portfolios (at least in the case of OMICS) each included hundreds of deceptive journals. But when individual authors are trying to decide where to publish and why, their point of contact is going to be with the journal---is it indexed, is it advertising a fake impact factor, etc. So while it makes perfect sense for FTC regulatory action to target producers, it might make sure sense for OSI guidelines to focus on the journal. Yes no maybe?
From: Lisa Hinchliffe [mailto:lisali...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 9:10 AM
To: Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org>
Cc: Rick Anderson <rick.a...@utah.edu>; David Wojick <dwo...@craigellachie.us>; The Open Scholarship Initiative <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: You say predatory, and I say deceptive. You say new wave, and I say illegitimate.
I'm not sure on #5. I'll need someone more educated about regulation and the FTC to help refine:
We (OSI) should join NIH in discouraging publishing in journals that are deceptive (as defined by the FTC and others)
Did the FTC identify individual journals as deceptive, or the publisher? If the former, then only discourage for those journals or the rest in the publisher portfolio as well?
Lisa
___
Lisa Janicke Hinchliffe
lisali...@gmail.com
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org> wrote:
Agreed all around Lisa. The good folks on this list have been excellent interrogators over the years so please keep at it. Let me see if I’ve got this correct so far (and I apologize if this is off-track---this is also just a starting point for conversation):
1. At present, there are no international standards for journal publishing (there are best practices guidelines, ethics guidelines, internal standards, etc., but no list that says a journal must do x, y and z).
2. If journal standards were to be developed, there shouldn’t be a single standard of excellence. Would minimum standards be okay?
3. These standards should apply to journals, not publishers (to the end products, not the producers)
4. These standards should be voluntary for now---not accreditation standards
5. We (OSI) should join NIH in discouraging publishing in journals that are deceptive (as defined by the FTC and others)
6. We (OSI) should begin the process of improving the capacity of journals that aren’t meeting standards, and over time, discourage publishing in these journals if they don’t improve
This thread is an attempt to address the issue that’s left in the wake of the deceptive journals issue---the fact that even if we move strongly to isolate deceptive journals and call out deceptive practices, there are still a great many journals that aren’t carrying research the way we expect (as David has noted). This might mean they’re conducting peer review that’s really just editorial review, covering fields that aren’t actual science, and so on---not “deceptive” practices, but not accepted practices either. So how do we address the concerns posed by this group of journals?
Once we can get a head of steam on this we can create a Slack group for folks who are interested.
Best,
Glenn
Glenn Hampson
Executive Director
Science Communication Institute (SCI)
Program Director
Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)
2320 N 137th Street | Seattle, WA 98133
(206) 417-3607 | gham...@nationalscience.org | nationalscience.org
From: Lisa Hinchliffe [mailto:lisali...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 8:11 AM
To: Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org>
Cc: Rick Anderson <rick.a...@utah.edu>; David Wojick <dwo...@craigellachie.us>; The Open Scholarship Initiative <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: You say predatory, and I say deceptive. You say new wave, and I say illegitimate.
Yes, I know where the quote is from but if it is going to be the basis from which one builds a system it should be interrogated for truth. So, FWIW, I think it is fine to articulate standards and pathways. But, I question as well if there is really a single standard of excellence. And, I definitely think it is important to decouple whether a publisher (or publication - which is another difference that gets conflated a lot in these discussions) attains a given standard and whether it is a good place to publish. Lisa
___
Lisa Janicke Hinchliffe
lisali...@gmail.com
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org> wrote:
Hi Lisa,
Another good question. It’s a quote from the report featured in Alice’s recent TSK post. Even if it isn’t true, wouldn’t it still be in everyone’s best interests to clarify what standards are expected and create a pathway for people to reach these standards?
Best,
Glenn
Glenn Hampson
Executive Director
Science Communication Institute (SCI)
Program Director
Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)
2320 N 137th Street | Seattle, WA 98133
(206) 417-3607 | gham...@nationalscience.org | nationalscience.org
From: Lisa Hinchliffe [mailto:lisali...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 7:47 AM
To: Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org>
Cc: Rick Anderson <rick.a...@utah.edu>; David Wojick <dwo...@craigellachie.us>; The Open Scholarship Initiative <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: You say predatory, and I say deceptive. You say new wave, and I say illegitimate.
Is this statement true: "any journal not meeting best practice standards, whether due to intentionally deceptive practices, low resourcing, or lack of knowledge, or otherwise, in our view are nonetheless a poor entity to ‘publish’ in"?
I'd argue that it is is not.
A given journal might be a perfectly fine - even great - place to publish in even if it doesn't meet best practices.
Lisa
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org> wrote:
Right. I didn’t mean to conflate these two, and they are being conflated here. There are fraudulent business practices and the hallmarks of these have been spelled out (although it wouldn’t hurt for OSI to do the same---to publish our own official checklist of deceptive practices and links to resources like think-check-submit).
I think David and I are looking at the first mixed-bag category of publications from the thread below: “…any journal not meeting best practice standards, whether due to intentionally deceptive practices, low resourcing, or lack of knowledge, or otherwise, in our view are nonetheless a poor entity to ‘publish’ in. The term ‘illegitimate journals’ may better reflect the range of journals that fail to meet expected best practice standards.” Pulling this apart, is there anything we can do to help the journals that are not meeting the bar, not intentionally because of deceptive practices, but unintentionally because of a lack of knowledge about best practices? This kind of slides into the low-resource issue---that if a journal editor knows about best practice standards but can’t meet the bar because of resource constraints, is there anything we can do in this case? Are there resource pools we can set up, for instance? Or are there certain minimum standards we can help define that might be more attainable (but still adequate)?
Best,
Glenn
From: Rick Anderson [mailto:rick.a...@utah.edu]
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 7:10 AM
To: Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org>; 'David Wojick' <dwo...@craigellachie.us>; osi20...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: You say predatory, and I say deceptive. You say new wave, and I say illegitimate.
Not to be a broken record, but once again it’s important not to confuse the question of publishing standards with the much less subtle and much more binary issue of fraudulent business practices. There’s no reason for anyone to call a “low-resourced” journal predatory or deceptive if it isn’t lying about its business practices.
---
Rick Anderson
Assoc. Dean for Collections & Scholarly Communication
Marriott Library, University of Utah
Desk: (801) 587-9989
Cell: (801) 721-1687
From: <osi20...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org>
Date: Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 8:02 AM
To: David Wojick <dwo...@craigellachie.us>, "osi20...@googlegroups.com" <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: You say predatory, and I say deceptive. You say new wave, and I say illegitimate.
I agree David----I think that’s the right question. We’ve discussed the question of accrediting before---maybe conducted by societies---but there was a resounding lack of interest in this idea (or at least concern about the effort involved). A little lower down the scale, are there international standards for journal publishing?---not to be confused with checklists of how to recognize an illegitimate journal, but voluntary compliance lists of features that every legitimate journal should have? In addition to discussing accrediting, we also discussed improving the capacity of “low resourced” journals to get into compliance. Maybe creating a checklist is a start (supplemented by a resource base---how to get indexed, how to format papers, editing standards, etc.)?
Best,
Glenn
From: osi20...@googlegroups.com [mailto:osi20...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Wojick
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 5:44 AM
To: osi20...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: You say predatory, and I say deceptive. You say new wave, and I say illegitimate.
We seem to have some more new jargon -- "low resourcing" -- which causes a journal to be illegitimate. Perhaps they are referring to the very low cost APCs charged by most new wave journals. These certainly do preclude meeting some of the rich journal best practice standards, which can be expensive. Or maybe they mean something else. Is the term defined in the article?
It also seems confusing to call a journal that publishes legitimate research "illegitimate." Perhaps "substandard" is a better term, given that it is defined as failing to meet certain presumed standards. The question then becomes just what these standards are?
David
On Dec 5, 2017, at 3:00 PM, "Glenn Hampson" <gham...@nationalscience.org> wrote:Alice Meadows has written an excellent piece in today’s Scholarly Kitchen (http://bit.ly/2ntRfTL) highlighting the recent research work of David Moher, Larissa Shamseer, and Kelly Cobey on “predatory” publishing. Among the researcher’s recommendations are that:
1. “…any journal not meeting best practice standards, whether due to intentionally deceptive practices, low resourcing, or lack of knowledge, or otherwise, in our view are nonetheless a poor entity to ‘publish’ in. The term ‘illegitimate journals’ may better reflect the range of journals that fail to meet expected best practice standards.”
2. “…there needs to be a standard and agreed on definition of what constitutes a “predatory journal”. The definition and agreement must come from all stakeholders, not just one group in isolation. Our hope is to raise funds to be able to bring together a group of leaders from each stakeholder group for an in person meeting to gain consensus on this issue before proceeding with further activities to address the problem. It will be important to evaluate and track the success of any interventions generated to address the problem.”*
Best,
Glenn
*Maybe OSI can help with this.
Glenn Hampson
Executive Director
Science Communication Institute (SCI)
Program Director
Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)<image001.jpg>
2320 N 137th Street | Seattle, WA 98133
(206) 417-3607 | gham...@nationalscience.org | nationalscience.org
there needs to be a standard and agreed on definition of what constitutes a “predatory journal”. The definition and agreement must come from all stakeholders, not just one group in isolation. Our hope is to raise funds to be able to bring together a group of leaders from each stakeholder group for an in person meeting to gain consensus on this issue before proceeding with further activities to address the problem. It will be important to evaluate and track the success of any interventions generated to address the problem
From: The Scholarly Kitchen [mailto:in...@sspnet.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2017 4:51 AM
To: gham...@nationalscience.org
Subject: Today on The Scholarly Kitchen
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