UKRI open access review

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Glenn Hampson

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Feb 13, 2020, 1:26:06 PM2/13/20
to The Open Scholarship Initiative

Here’s a new initiative that some of you may want to review and/or comment on: https://www.ukri.org/funding/information-for-award-holders/open-access/open-access-review/. Thanks to Simon Linacre from forwarding this link.

 

As you can see from the full consultation document (https://www.ukri.org/files/funding/oa/open-access-review-consultation/), the UKRI is trying to standardize its approach to open. The path it is taking, as Simon notes, doesn’t appear to rule out hybrids (even though UKRI is a Plan S signatory). It also appears to soften the CC-BY requirement for peer reviewed articles and allow CC-BY-ND licensing instead---but it will also require this kind of licensing for book chapters and manuscripts. I find this confusing and alarming---maybe it’s just me. Adding ND doesn’t prohibit a third party from taking an HSS treatise and publishing it verbatim for commercial purposes. In fact, it may discourage reuse because under the “no derivates” clause, any transformation of the original material can’t be redistributed. At this point, why not just use regular copyright and rely on fair use to guide how materials are excerpted, remixed and reused?

 

This is a tangent, but I think our community needs to have a deeper conversation about what CC-BY means versus BY-ND, BY-ND-NC, copyright, etc., when it comes to how most research articles are ACTUALLY reused. What are we basing this guidance on? Data may be another matter. Maximizing reuse here makes sense, although from what I’ve personally observed, researchers who hold copyright to their work aren’t sitting on their data and not permitting it to be shared. Claiming that only CC-BY will ensure this sharing might be a red herring, but we’ve taken it as a article of faith in this community.

 

Best,

 

Glenn

 

 

Glenn Hampson
Executive Director
Science Communication Institute (SCI)
Program Director
Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)

 

 

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Rob Johnson

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Feb 13, 2020, 6:05:28 PM2/13/20
to The Open Scholarship Initiative
Hi Glenn,
I posted a quick summary of the UKRI consultation early this morning (UK time) on Twitter which may be of interest to some on this list: https://twitter.com/rschrobUK/status/1227878487572307968. I agree the consultation points to a softening of the stance on hybrids and CC BY for articles, but outlines a challenging set of expectations around OA monographs.

The document is worth a read as it provides a good summary of the key questions and issues that policy makers face in trying to accelerate the move to open access, of which licensing is indeed a particularly complex example. Many of these challenges are global, but some are particularly acute in a country like the UK where the interests of researchers and libraries must be balanced with the desire to safeguard a strong export industry, in the form of academic publishing, and preserve the health of learned societies who rely heavily on publishing revenues. 

What is telling is that this consultation is part of a review process that actually began in October 2018, and we still have more questions than answers regarding the final shape of the policy. As I note on Twitter, it's not clear how much political will there is in the UK at present to push the OA agenda forward - which is perhaps not surprising given that, as of today, we are onto our fifth minister for universities and science within the last two years. 

On the subject of political will, I would be interested to know if anyone on the other side of the Atlantic has any further news to share on the mooted Executive Order on OA from the Trump administration?
Best wishes,

Rob 

Rob Johnson

Director

Research Consulting

 

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Anthony Watkinson

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Feb 13, 2020, 6:26:39 PM2/13/20
to Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative

I think we should all be grateful to Rob for giving us these insights. It is also good that UKRI is seriously consulting.

Anthony

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Glenn Hampson

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Feb 13, 2020, 6:43:07 PM2/13/20
to Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative
Hi Rob,

This is secondhand info, but the OSTP policy review process is continuing. The office is bringing in different groups to hear their feedback, and in some cases is getting an earful. You call it “mooted,” though—maybe I’m missing the latest news?

Thanks for the UKRI update—very helpful.

Best,

Glenn 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Rob Johnson <rob.j...@research-consulting.com> wrote:


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Rick Anderson

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Feb 13, 2020, 6:52:27 PM2/13/20
to Glenn Hampson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative

I think Rob is using “moot” as a verb in the British sense (“suggested; put forward for comment”) rather than as an adjective in the American sense (“irrelevant or unnecessary”).

 

:-)

 

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Rick Anderson

Assoc. Dean for Collections & Scholarly Communication

Marriott Library, University of Utah

rick.a...@utah.edu

 

From: <osi20...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Glenn Hampson <gham...@nationalscience.org>
Date: Friday, February 14, 2020 at 8:43 AM
To: Rob Johnson <rob.j...@research-consulting.com>
Cc: The Open Scholarship Initiative <osi20...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: UKRI open access review

 

Hi Rob,

Image removed by sender.

 

 

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Danny Kingsley

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Feb 13, 2020, 10:05:23 PM2/13/20
to Rick Anderson, Glenn Hampson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative
That reminds me of a misunderstanding about the word ‘quite’. I have heard of issues with Irish/Australian couplings where the Irish half has commented that a meal prepared by relatives of the Australian half was ‘quite good’. In Ireland that is high praise - ‘quite good’ means ‘very good’. In Australia ‘quite good’ means ‘barely adequate’…

And don’t get me started on the word ‘pants’ in the UK.

Danny

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Dr Danny Kingsley
Scholarly Communication Consultant
e: da...@dannykingsley.com
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Glenn Hampson

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Feb 13, 2020, 10:26:46 PM2/13/20
to Danny Kingsley, Rick Anderson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative

Oh you can’t just say that and leave us hanging. What’s the deal with “pants”?

T Scott

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Feb 13, 2020, 10:40:25 PM2/13/20
to Danny Kingsley, Rick Anderson, Glenn Hampson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative
And if someone from the US south says, "Bless her heart..."

On Feb 13, 2020, at 9:05 PM, Danny Kingsley <da...@dannykingsley.com> wrote:

That reminds me of a misunderstanding about the word ‘quite’. I have heard of issues with Irish/Australian couplings where the Irish half has commented that a meal prepared by relatives of the Australian half was ‘quite good’. In Ireland that is high praise - ‘quite good’ means ‘very good’. In Australia ‘quite good’ means ‘barely adequate’…

Danny Kingsley

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Feb 13, 2020, 11:49:41 PM2/13/20
to T Scott, Rick Anderson, Glenn Hampson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative
OK in the US and Australia ‘pants’ is what you would call a non denim version of jeans. That is, long legged outer layer of clothing that cover your legs. 

But in the UK ‘pants’ are what we in Oz call ‘underpants' - because you wear them under your pants. So, in the UK when you talk about wearing a new pair of pants, people will look askance, as though you are being somehow lascivious.

Then we get onto thongs. In Australia these are a strip of rubber with a strap over the top that you wear on your feet. Other countries call them flip flops (UK), or jangles (NZ). In the UK there is confusion about this style of footwear with warning signs on the train stations saying you could trip over if you are wearing them (I have photographic proof). 

To add to this confusion, in Australia, the skimpy underpants women wear to avoid a VPL (visible panty line) are called G-strings, presumably after the guitar string they resemble (in look and comfort). 

So you can get into terrible trouble if you said in the UK “I am going casual today so I will wear my silver thongs with my blue pants”.

One of a myriad of traps when you are in another country…

Danny

And yes, I understand ‘bless her heart’ is a HUGE condescending put down.

Rick Anderson

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Feb 14, 2020, 12:00:14 AM2/14/20
to Danny Kingsley, T Scott, Glenn Hampson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative

> And yes, I understand ‘bless her heart’ is a HUGE condescending put down.

 

Well, not necessarily. “Bless (his/her/their) heart(s)” can certainly be used that way, but it can also be used with complete sincerity. It’s the difference between:

 

Person 1: “Did you hear about Jimmy? His daddy was just diagnosed with cancer.”

Person 2: “Oh, bless his heart. I’ll keep him in my prayers.”

 

... and:

 

Person 1: “Did you hear that Jimmy got caught using church funds to customize his truck?”

Person 2: “Yes, bless his heart.” (Followed by sardonic laughter)

 

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Rick Anderson

Assoc. Dean for Collections & Scholarly Communication

Marriott Library, University of Utah

rick.a...@utah.edu

 

Lisa Hinchliffe

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Feb 14, 2020, 12:04:27 AM2/14/20
to Danny Kingsley, T Scott, Rick Anderson, Glenn Hampson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative
I now feel compelled to tell you that when a Minnesotan says "that's interesting" ... attend carefully. It can mean from "wow, genius, tell me more" to the most sarcastic thing you've ever heard times two. More likely the closer to the latter.  It is Minnesota-nice for bless your heart! :)

Lisa

P.s. Minnesota Nice is a real thing.  Google it... it's not very nice!

Lisa Janicke Hinchliffe
lisali...@gmail.com

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/osi2016-25/41B4F76B-DCBC-4CA1-A3F6-901A3FD7C10A%40dannykingsley.com.

Michael Clarke

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Feb 14, 2020, 12:29:05 AM2/14/20
to Lisa Hinchliffe, Danny Kingsley, T Scott, Rick Anderson, Glenn Hampson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative
One I have noticed recently is the verb “table.” In the US, if one tables a proposal or a piece of legislation, it means that you rescind the proposal. In the U.K. it means the opposite: that you introduce the proposal. 

On Feb 13, 2020, at 10:04 PM, Lisa Hinchliffe <lisali...@gmail.com> wrote:



Rob Johnson

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Feb 14, 2020, 3:23:34 AM2/14/20
to Danny Kingsley, T Scott, Rick Anderson, Glenn Hampson, The Open Scholarship Initiative

Wow, not sure how I started this conversation! Many nations divided by a common language… 😉

 

From: Danny Kingsley <danny.a....@gmail.com> On Behalf Of Danny Kingsley


Sent: 14 February 2020 04:50
To: T Scott <splu...@gmail.com>

Anthony Watkinson

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Feb 14, 2020, 6:00:31 AM2/14/20
to Michael Clarke, Lisa Hinchliffe, Danny Kingsley, T Scott, Rick Anderson, Glenn Hampson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative

I thought I knew all these differences but this is one I had missed. Thanks Michael

Hi Lisa “that’s interesting” is much the same in the UK:

Hi Danny – I used to visit Australia every year but not recently (alas) However my impression the word “uni” for a type of academic institution originated in Australia and has swept UK and US.

Anthony

Danny

Joyce Ogburn

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Feb 14, 2020, 8:20:19 AM2/14/20
to Rick Anderson, Danny Kingsley, T Scott, Glenn Hampson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative
Yes this is correct. It’s all in how you say it and in what context.  Joyce 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 14, 2020, at 12:00 AM, Rick Anderson <rick.a...@utah.edu> wrote:



Wulf, Karin A

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Feb 14, 2020, 9:18:09 AM2/14/20
to Joyce Ogburn, Rick Anderson, Danny Kingsley, T Scott, Glenn Hampson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative
After 5 years of a US-UK collaborative project we only partly jokingly suggested  a white paper
on what troubles were caused and time lost —SO MANY SO MUCH— by misunderstanding that subjects should be
“tabled.”


*****************
Karin Wulf
Executive Director, Omohundro Institute of Early American History & Culture
Professor of History, William & Mary
Twitter at kawulf 
Website karinwulf dot com



 
Dr Danny Kingsley
Scholarly Communication Consultant
e: da...@dannykingsley.com
m: +61 (0)480 115 937
t:@dannykay68
o: 0000-0002-3636-5939
 
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Michael Clarke

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Feb 14, 2020, 11:28:31 AM2/14/20
to Wulf, Karin A, Joyce Ogburn, Rick Anderson, Danny Kingsley, T Scott, Glenn Hampson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative
An important white paper for sure!

Danny Kingsley

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Feb 14, 2020, 4:23:13 PM2/14/20
to Anthony Watkinson, Michael Clarke, Lisa Hinchliffe, T Scott, Rick Anderson, Glenn Hampson, Rob Johnson, The Open Scholarship Initiative
Yes I apologise for that Anthony. In Australia if it can be shortened it is (and even if it can’t sometimes). I had forgotten how pervasive this is, until i went out for breakfast soon after returning and had a choice on the menu of ’smashed avo’* or ‘eggs benny’. That is avocado on toast and eggs benedict if you haven’t worked it out.

Danny

*Australia started the whole "smashed avocado costing millennials their chance to buy a house" meme

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